Re: chrome web browser worthless

[David Wright]

On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 14:48:30 (-0400), gene heskett wrote:
> On 8/2/23 13:21, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 01:07:13PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> > > On 8/2/23 07:14, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > > > On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 08:43:32AM +0100, Darac Marjal wrote:
> > > > > * "localhost:80" - This is ambiguous
> > > > > 
> > > [...]
> > > > 
> > > > It would be nice if we had an exact recipe for how to reproduce the
> > > > problem.  Failing that, it'll be up to Gene to debug the situation on
> > > > his end.  I'm still leaning toward an edited /etc/hosts file.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > At this point Greg, I'll plead guilty to a hand edited /etc/hosts file.
> > > So here it is, tell me whats wrong:
> > > 
> > > gene@bpi52:~$ cat /etc/hosts
> > > 127.0.0.1   localhost
> > > 
> > > There is more of course but the rest of it is private local network
> > > (192.168.xxx.yyy) addresses of no concern here.
> > 
> > Well, that looks reasonable.  You're missing the IPv6 entry, but that
> > probably doesn't matter.  So, assuming there are no other occurrences
> > of the word "localhost", whatever is causing the problem probably
> > lies elsewhere.
> > 
> > Did you attempt any other diagnostics?  Typing the full URL including
> > the http:// part, or launching Chrome with a new profile?  Are you able
> > to reproduce the problem consistently, and if so, how?  What are the
> > exact symptoms you see?
> > 
> > Another thing to try, which I forgot to mention last time, would be using
> > the IP address directly:  http://127.0.0.1/   That bypasses any hostname
> > lookup issues that may exist.  It's pretty unlikely that a web service
> > running on localhost would care whether you addressed it by name or by IP
> > address (virtual hosts on loopback are not commonplace AFAIK).
> > 
> Its idle atm, so I'll give that a shot, brb. A click on the empty
> address line gets me a menu from google. this pops up with the first
> character typed, but if I continue with //127.0.0.1:80, I see a ;
> replacing the : and the 80 disappears but it does work, and I am
> looking at the klipper web page, used to run the printer. And
> everything seems to work.

That doesn't look like hijacking to me, but just the normal practice
of turning the port number into the appropriate protocol and sticking
it on the front of the address. (As already mentioned, some browsers
might hide the protocol, rather like Windows does with filename
extensions.)

Cheers,
David.

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[tomas]

On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 08:05:11PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:

[...]

> show mea link to the doc that explains that please
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.

There's not "the doc", but many of them. For starters, rfc5735 [1]
tells us that the whole subnet 127.0.0.0/8 is available for
loopback purposes (I've used it to test web servers locally,
picking one address and giving them a suitable name in /etc/hosts)

The 127.0.1.1 seems to be a Debianism explained here [2]. It seems
that some (ahem) software (Typical GNOME) wants to know "no, what's
my "real" IP address) and fails if there ain't one, so this seems
to have been done to pacify those.

Bad software, bad.

And now go fire your search engine ;-)

Cheers

[1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5735#section-4
[2] 
https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05.en.html#_the_hostname_resolution

-- 
t


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: 127.0.1.1 line, was Re: chrome web browser worthless

[David Wright]

On Thu 03 Aug 2023 at 07:48:54 (+0800), jeremy ardley wrote:
> On 3/8/23 07:34, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > > On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 16:00:24 (-0400), gene heskett wrote:
> > > > On 8/2/23 15:15, Brian wrote:
> > > > > Where is the line with 127.0.1.1? Debian always provides that.
> > > > > 
> > > > True, but I've never seen a description of what that does or what its
> > > > for.
> > https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05.en.html#_the_hostname_resolution
> > 
> As an aside, I checked my current debian 12 bookworm installation and
> found in /etc/nsswitch.conf this line
> 
> hosts:  files mdns4_minimal [NOTFOUND=return] dns myhostname
> mymachines
> 
> when I do man nsswitch.conf there is no reference to mdns4_minimal
> 
> I see from searching that mdns4_minimal is referenced reasonably often
> over the past few years but I can't find it defined.
> 
> The question arises why it's not defined in man nsswitch.conf?

I suspect it's because  man nsswitch.conf  documents the (closed) set
of databases, whereas the various services are documented inside the
library packages that implement them, like libnss-mdns. In this case,
the files to read are /usr/share/doc/libnss-mdns/README.{Debian,md.gz}.

Cheers,
David.

Re: perl module listgarden

[Russell L. Harris]

On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 03:18:12PM -0700, David Christensen wrote:

On 8/2/23 14:03, Russell L. Harris wrote:

I have not used Perl for several years, and I do not know how to
proceed.
I am trying to install Dan Bricklin's RSS feed generator, ListGarden.

metacpan.org cannot find the listgarden module.

Here is the output:

perl listgarden.pl
Can't locate ListGarden.pm in @INC (you may need to install the
ListGarden module) (@INC contains: /etc/perl
/usr/local/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl/5.32.1
/usr/local/share/perl/5.32.1 /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl5/5.32
/usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl-base
/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl/5.32 /usr/share/perl/5.32
/usr/local/lib/site_perl) at listgarden.pl line 21.
BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at listgarden.pl line 21.


ListGarden does not appear to be a Debian package:

https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=LIstGarden&searchon=names&suite=all§ion=all


MetaCPAN is unable to find ListGarden:

https://metacpan.org/search?size=20&q=ListGarden

STFW "ListGarden" I see:

http://www.softwaregarden.com/products/listgarden/

Under "How to get it", follow the link "Generic Perl Version":

http://www.softwaregarden.com/products/listgarden/plainperl.html

The instructions do not mention a Makefile.PL or Build.PL, so it 
appears that you will need to install distribution files, adjust the 
PERL5LIB environment variable, configure your services/ apps, etc., 
manually.


Thanks, David.  I did follow the plainperl.html link.  All the files
came from Dan Bricklin's ListGarden web site.

Perhaps the Perlmongers mail list still is active.

For that matter, is RSS still in use?

RLH

Re: AMD GPU hard lockups

[Cindy Sue Causey]

debian-user@lists.debian.org
On 8/2/23, piorunz  wrote:
> On 02/08/2023 22:29, Celejar wrote:
>> The Z440 officially supports up to an NVIDIA Quadro K6000 12GB, which
>> draws 234 watts, so it ought to be able to handle my Red Devil RX-570.
>> The Red Devil specifies a minimum system power of 450 watts, and my
>> Z440's PSU is 700 watts:
>
> More detailed info:
> https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/powercolor-red-devil-rx-570-oc.b4455
>
> Your GPU max TDP is 150W, meaning it will draw 75W from PCI-E slot and
> 75W from 8-pin cable.
> Your 8-pin adapter must have been very poor quality. I don't know what
> kind of adapter it was, but adapters which make 8-pin from 6-pin, are
> dangerous. Better to use 2x 6-pin -> 1x 8-pin adapter to correctly
> assign wires to each corresponding pin.


Was coming in on this to say something similar. Just read this in last
week or so while having problems with booting my setup again.

Whatever I read had nothing to do with rebooting so I've forgotten
where I saw it. I just looked at the Cable Matters product, and that
was the very piece of hardware being chatted up.

What I'm remembering is that if the power of possibly just one of
those pins is not matched up properly, you can kill an entire
motherboard, not just burn through a wire. Seems like it was
semi-proprietary to a single product line. What I don't understand is
the company didn't care enough about consumers to make a proprietary
*shaped" pin setup so that consumers NEVER fry their systems. Make
that single, volatile hole/port star-shaped or something, anything.

This isn't what I read, but it seems to paint a similar picture of
what might happen:

https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/is-it-possible-i-destroyed-my-psu-by-using-a-wrong-cpu-cable.3721595/

Wishing you the best of luck on this.. :)

Cindy :)
-- 
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA
* runs with.. a system that boots when it gets a mind to.. *

Re: 127.0.1.1 line, was Re: chrome web browser worthless

[Greg Wooledge]

On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 07:01:22PM -0700, David Christensen wrote:
> Interesting.  Is there a Debian specification that explains the 127.0.1.1
> entry?

https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05.en.html#_the_hostname_resolution

I'm sure there are others, but this was the first one I found.

Re: 127.0.1.1 line, was Re: chrome web browser worthless

[David Christensen]

On 8/2/23 16:34, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 16:00:24 (-0400), gene heskett wrote:

On 8/2/23 15:15, Brian wrote:

Where is the line with 127.0.1.1? Debian always provides that.


True, but I've never seen a description of what that does or what its
for.


https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05.en.html#_the_hostname_resolution

One click away from the first result of my first Google search on the
topic.  Not hard to find at all.

When you see something that you don't understand and your first reaction
is "let's remove that!" it's no wonder you have so many problems.




Thank you -- that answers my question:

https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05.en.html#_the_hostname_resolution

The IP address 127.0.1.1 in the second line of this example may not be 
found on some other Unix-like systems. The Debian Installer creates this 
entry for a system without a permanent IP address as a workaround for 
some software (e.g., GNOME) as documented in the bug #719621.



David

Re: 127.0.1.1 line, was Re: chrome web browser worthless

[David Christensen]

On 8/2/23 16:26, David Wright wrote:

On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 16:00:24 (-0400), gene heskett wrote:

On 8/2/23 15:15, Brian wrote:

On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 14:52:26 -0400, gene heskett wrote:

On 8/2/23 14:26, Brian wrote:

No - that isn't the way it works. Give what is asked for, not a censored
version that suits you.


ok, same cat in full:
gene@bpi52:~$ cat /etc/hosts
127.0.0.1   localhost
192.168.71.1router.coyote.den   router
192.168.71.3coyote.coyote.den   coyote
192.168.71.4sixty40.coyote.den  sixty40
192.168.71.7vna.coyote.den  vna
192.168.71.8rock64v2.coyote.den rock64v2
192.168.71.9bpi51.coyote.denbpi51
192.168.71.10   go704.coyote.dengo704
192.168.71.11   bpi53.coyote.denbpi53
192.168.71.12   bpi54.coyote.denbpi54
192.168.71.13   rpi4.coyote.den rpi4
192.168.71.21   scanner.coyte.den   scanner
192.168.71.22   rock64.coyote.den   rock64
192.168.71.23   bpi52.coyote.denbpi52
192.168.71.25   tlm.coyote.den  tlm
192.168.71.50   dddprint.coyote.dn  dddprint
31.184.194.81   Sci-Hub.se


Where is the line with 127.0.1.1? Debian always provides that.


True, but I've never seen a description of what that does or what its
for.



Interesting.  Is there a Debian specification that explains the 
127.0.1.1 entry?






So I've removed it from every machine here because its out of
scope for 127.0.0.1.



Gene -- by "it", do you mean the 127.0.1.1 entries?



I'm not sure what you mean by scope. 127.0.0.0 is /8 isn't it?



That is my understanding, and what Wikipedia says:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserved_IP_addresses says:

127.0.0.0/8 	127.0.0.0–127.255.255.255 	16777216 	Host 	Used for 
loopback addresses to the local host.[1]



So, both 127.0.0.1 and 127.0.1.1 are in the IPv4 special use address 
block 127.0.0.0/8.



David

Re: Follow the specs :) (was Re: AMD GPU hard lockups)

[gene heskett]

On 8/2/23 19:30, zithro wrote:

On 02 Aug 2023 23:29, Celejar wrote:
 > But reputable companies do produce 6-8 pin adapters, e.g.:
[...]
 > (I just ordered the Cable Matters one.)

Out of curiosity, I checked the links.
Funny that "reputable companies" (I'm not attacking you, but them) don't 
even specify the max power rating as product specs, and when specified, 
it's only in users Q&A ...
You also have to dig deep to get the wires size in AWG (ie: zoom on 
pictures ...) !

Compare that to the information you get for the PSU and the GPU !

Anyways :
1st link: "The maximum power rating for the PCIEX68ADAP is 75W"
2nd link: "Max Power Rating 150W"
3rd link: (nowhere to be found, at least quickly)

1 and 2 use AWG18 wires, and on 3 they look even thinner (can't really 
tell as the pic is s***).

I'd eliminate the 3 from the start. No specs, no money.
And either 1 or 2 is lying : same AWG, different power rating (ok, the 
wire style is precised nowhere : single core, threaded, etc). But we can 
safely assume that 150W @12V is not possible : 12.5A is out of specs.
(Try "https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wire-gauges-d_419.html"; for 
more info on AWG, and use the formula Watts = Volts x Amperes).


On 02 Aug 2023 23:37, piorunz wrote:

Your GPU max TDP is 150W, meaning it will draw 75W from PCI-E slot and
75W from 8-pin cable.


So the wires will work around their limits.
One little power spike and kaboom.
Fire, exclamation mark ; fire, exclamation mark.
Joke aside, the fire hazard is real. Especially exceeding limits with 
low-end products, when you don't know if the materials are fire-proofed.



Your 8-pin adapter must have been very poor quality. I don't know what
kind of adapter it was, but adapters which make 8-pin from 6-pin, are
dangerous. Better to use 2x 6-pin -> 1x 8-pin adapter to correctly
assign wires to each corresponding pin.


Separate the men from the boys, and ask the vender what the ampacity of 
the wire used in their product is rated at. If they cannot answer that, 
put our card away and go someplace that knows.


That is a term used in the NEC, and represents the maximum current the 
wire can handle. AWG 10 gauge copper has an ampacity rating of 20 amps, 
so its sick bird to feed it with a breaker rated for more than 20 amps. 
12 gauge is 15 amps,  By the time you get to 18 gauge it close to an amp 
or two.


I agree, so that each wire (or group of wires) does not exceed the max 
current it can draw.


I found two pages cleanly explaining this, both were worth a read.
But don't quickly jump to conclusions, follow the flow !

https://www.cgdirector.com/gpu-power-cable-guide/
https://www.pcworld.com/article/395059/one-cable-or-two-for-powering-a-graphics-card-heres-the-answer.html




Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[gene heskett]

On 8/2/23 17:02, Brian wrote:

On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 16:00:24 -0400, gene heskett wrote:


On 8/2/23 15:15, Brian wrote:

On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 14:52:26 -0400, gene heskett wrote:


On 8/2/23 14:26, Brian wrote:

No - that isn't the way it works. Give what is asked for, not a censored
version that suits you.


ok, same cat in full:
gene@bpi52:~$ cat /etc/hosts
127.0.0.1   localhost
192.168.71.1router.coyote.den   router
192.168.71.3coyote.coyote.den   coyote
192.168.71.4sixty40.coyote.den  sixty40
192.168.71.7vna.coyote.den  vna
192.168.71.8rock64v2.coyote.den rock64v2
192.168.71.9bpi51.coyote.denbpi51
192.168.71.10   go704.coyote.dengo704
192.168.71.11   bpi53.coyote.denbpi53
192.168.71.12   bpi54.coyote.denbpi54
192.168.71.13   rpi4.coyote.den rpi4
192.168.71.21   scanner.coyte.den   scanner
192.168.71.22   rock64.coyote.den   rock64
192.168.71.23   bpi52.coyote.denbpi52
192.168.71.25   tlm.coyote.den  tlm
192.168.71.50   dddprint.coyote.dn  dddprint
31.184.194.81   Sci-Hub.se


Where is the line with 127.0.1.1? Debian always provides that.


True, but I've never seen a description of what that does or what its for.


I've seen expert explanations of why it is there.


So I've removed it from every machine here because its out of scope for
127.0.0.1.


An interesting technique when something does not fit with preconceived
notions. Linits Debian's network setup but makes for a happyuser. Unti...


to quote from your own doc on this:
at section 5.1.1:

For a system with a permanent IP address, that permanent IP address 
should be used here instead of 127.0.1.1.


Also the next line but doesn't quite fit:

For a system with a permanent IP address and a fully qualified domain 
name (FQDN) provided by the Domain Name System (DNS), that canonical 
host_name.domain_name should be used instead of just host_name.


but the only dns server is my ISP.  dns queries are pointed at the 
router, which if dnsmasq in the router does not have it cached, asks my 
isp's server. I have no clue what address that may be, all I care about 
is the response time which is typically in the 30 millisecond territory.


Which is precisely what I am doing,  Its a small local network hidden 
behind dd-wrt and ALL machines have a unique permanent address, and a 
hostname in /etc/hostname w/o a local dns service running anyplace.


This thread is finished.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: Follow the specs :) (was Re: AMD GPU hard lockups)

[Celejar]

On Thu, 3 Aug 2023 01:29:42 +0200
zithro  wrote:

> On 02 Aug 2023 23:29, Celejar wrote:
>  > But reputable companies do produce 6-8 pin adapters, e.g.:
> [...]
>  > (I just ordered the Cable Matters one.)
> 
> Out of curiosity, I checked the links.
> Funny that "reputable companies" (I'm not attacking you, but them) don't 
> even specify the max power rating as product specs, and when specified, 
> it's only in users Q&A ...
> You also have to dig deep to get the wires size in AWG (ie: zoom on 
> pictures ...) !
> Compare that to the information you get for the PSU and the GPU !
> 
> Anyways :
> 1st link: "The maximum power rating for the PCIEX68ADAP is 75W"
> 2nd link: "Max Power Rating 150W"
> 3rd link: (nowhere to be found, at least quickly)
> 
> 1 and 2 use AWG18 wires, and on 3 they look even thinner (can't really 
> tell as the pic is s***).
> I'd eliminate the 3 from the start. No specs, no money.
> And either 1 or 2 is lying : same AWG, different power rating (ok, the 
> wire style is precised nowhere : single core, threaded, etc). But we can 
> safely assume that 150W @12V is not possible : 12.5A is out of specs.
> (Try "https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wire-gauges-d_419.html"; for 
> more info on AWG, and use the formula Watts = Volts x Amperes).
> 
> On 02 Aug 2023 23:37, piorunz wrote:
> > Your GPU max TDP is 150W, meaning it will draw 75W from PCI-E slot and
> > 75W from 8-pin cable.
> 
> So the wires will work around their limits.
> One little power spike and kaboom.
> Fire, exclamation mark ; fire, exclamation mark.
> Joke aside, the fire hazard is real. Especially exceeding limits with 
> low-end products, when you don't know if the materials are fire-proofed.
> 
> > Your 8-pin adapter must have been very poor quality. I don't know what
> > kind of adapter it was, but adapters which make 8-pin from 6-pin, are
> > dangerous. Better to use 2x 6-pin -> 1x 8-pin adapter to correctly
> > assign wires to each corresponding pin.
> 
> I agree, so that each wire (or group of wires) does not exceed the max 
> current it can draw.
> 
> I found two pages cleanly explaining this, both were worth a read.
> But don't quickly jump to conclusions, follow the flow !
> 
> https://www.cgdirector.com/gpu-power-cable-guide/
> https://www.pcworld.com/article/395059/one-cable-or-two-for-powering-a-graphics-card-heres-the-answer.html

Thanks for the information and explanations!

> zithro / Cyril

Celejar

Re: AMD GPU hard lockups

[zithro]

On 03 Aug 2023 01:25, Celejar wrote:

I'm not sure I understand your point: if we assume that the fact that
my adapter burned indicates that my particular adapter must have been of
very poor quality, than this implies that such adapters in general are
not dangerous (which, as I've noted, is supported by the fact that
reputable companies sell them, with no warnings that they're dangerous).


You will never find in a car owner's manual that driving on pedestrians 
may be dangerous ;)


Joke aside those companies just wanna sell products.
Do the products fit you ? Read my previous email: YOU must check.

To remove the confusion : your graphic card is rated at 150W, but it's 
the MAX power it can use, not the power it uses all the time.

So, until you don't stress the GPU, those adapters will be perfectly fine.
Example from a Win domU, GPU-Z reports ~40W in idle (browsing, videos, 
...) for a Polaris20 GPU (AMD RX580), with a TDP of 185W.

That's why you only had problems when REALLY using the GPU.

For instance, let's say you built a server, but only have a RX6600 as 
video card, a 6 pins connector and a 6-to-8 adapter.
THIS will be perfectly fine : your GPU will never exceed limits, as it 
will at most display a framebuffer.


(To go even further : AFAIK, most graphic cards won't boot without the 
external PCI-E power connector plugged, but if there wasn't such 
"protection", as the x16 PCIe slot provides 75W, in my example above it 
would be perfectly fine to use the card w/o the external plug).

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[gene heskett]

On 8/2/23 17:02, Brian wrote:

On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 16:00:24 -0400, gene heskett wrote:


On 8/2/23 15:15, Brian wrote:

On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 14:52:26 -0400, gene heskett wrote:


On 8/2/23 14:26, Brian wrote:

No - that isn't the way it works. Give what is asked for, not a censored
version that suits you.


ok, same cat in full:
gene@bpi52:~$ cat /etc/hosts
127.0.0.1   localhost
192.168.71.1router.coyote.den   router
192.168.71.3coyote.coyote.den   coyote
192.168.71.4sixty40.coyote.den  sixty40
192.168.71.7vna.coyote.den  vna
192.168.71.8rock64v2.coyote.den rock64v2
192.168.71.9bpi51.coyote.denbpi51
192.168.71.10   go704.coyote.dengo704
192.168.71.11   bpi53.coyote.denbpi53
192.168.71.12   bpi54.coyote.denbpi54
192.168.71.13   rpi4.coyote.den rpi4
192.168.71.21   scanner.coyte.den   scanner
192.168.71.22   rock64.coyote.den   rock64
192.168.71.23   bpi52.coyote.denbpi52
192.168.71.25   tlm.coyote.den  tlm
192.168.71.50   dddprint.coyote.dn  dddprint
31.184.194.81   Sci-Hub.se


Where is the line with 127.0.1.1? Debian always provides that.


True, but I've never seen a description of what that does or what its for.


I've seen expert explanations of why it is there.


So I've removed it from every machine here because its out of scope for
127.0.0.1.


An interesting technique when something does not fit with preconceived
notions. Linits Debian's network setup but makes for a happyuser. Unti...


show mea link to the doc that explains that please
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: 127.0.1.1 line, was Re: chrome web browser worthless

[jeremy ardley]

On 3/8/23 07:34, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 16:00:24 (-0400), gene heskett wrote:

On 8/2/23 15:15, Brian wrote:

Where is the line with 127.0.1.1? Debian always provides that.


True, but I've never seen a description of what that does or what its
for.

https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05.en.html#_the_hostname_resolution

As an aside, I checked my current debian 12 bookworm installation and 
found in /etc/nsswitch.conf this line


hosts:  files mdns4_minimal [NOTFOUND=return] dns myhostname 
mymachines


when I do man nsswitch.conf there is no reference to mdns4_minimal

I see from searching that mdns4_minimal is referenced reasonably often 
over the past few years but I can't find it defined.


The question arises why it's not defined in man nsswitch.conf?

Re: 127.0.1.1 line, was Re: chrome web browser worthless

[Greg Wooledge]

> On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 16:00:24 (-0400), gene heskett wrote:
> > On 8/2/23 15:15, Brian wrote:
> > > Where is the line with 127.0.1.1? Debian always provides that.
> > > 
> > True, but I've never seen a description of what that does or what its
> > for.

https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05.en.html#_the_hostname_resolution

One click away from the first result of my first Google search on the
topic.  Not hard to find at all.

When you see something that you don't understand and your first reaction
is "let's remove that!" it's no wonder you have so many problems.

Follow the specs :) (was Re: AMD GPU hard lockups)

[zithro]

On 02 Aug 2023 23:29, Celejar wrote:
> But reputable companies do produce 6-8 pin adapters, e.g.:
[...]
> (I just ordered the Cable Matters one.)

Out of curiosity, I checked the links.
Funny that "reputable companies" (I'm not attacking you, but them) don't 
even specify the max power rating as product specs, and when specified, 
it's only in users Q&A ...
You also have to dig deep to get the wires size in AWG (ie: zoom on 
pictures ...) !

Compare that to the information you get for the PSU and the GPU !

Anyways :
1st link: "The maximum power rating for the PCIEX68ADAP is 75W"
2nd link: "Max Power Rating 150W"
3rd link: (nowhere to be found, at least quickly)

1 and 2 use AWG18 wires, and on 3 they look even thinner (can't really 
tell as the pic is s***).

I'd eliminate the 3 from the start. No specs, no money.
And either 1 or 2 is lying : same AWG, different power rating (ok, the 
wire style is precised nowhere : single core, threaded, etc). But we can 
safely assume that 150W @12V is not possible : 12.5A is out of specs.
(Try "https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wire-gauges-d_419.html"; for 
more info on AWG, and use the formula Watts = Volts x Amperes).


On 02 Aug 2023 23:37, piorunz wrote:

Your GPU max TDP is 150W, meaning it will draw 75W from PCI-E slot and
75W from 8-pin cable.


So the wires will work around their limits.
One little power spike and kaboom.
Fire, exclamation mark ; fire, exclamation mark.
Joke aside, the fire hazard is real. Especially exceeding limits with 
low-end products, when you don't know if the materials are fire-proofed.



Your 8-pin adapter must have been very poor quality. I don't know what
kind of adapter it was, but adapters which make 8-pin from 6-pin, are
dangerous. Better to use 2x 6-pin -> 1x 8-pin adapter to correctly
assign wires to each corresponding pin.


I agree, so that each wire (or group of wires) does not exceed the max 
current it can draw.


I found two pages cleanly explaining this, both were worth a read.
But don't quickly jump to conclusions, follow the flow !

https://www.cgdirector.com/gpu-power-cable-guide/
https://www.pcworld.com/article/395059/one-cable-or-two-for-powering-a-graphics-card-heres-the-answer.html


--
zithro / Cyril

127.0.1.1 line, was Re: chrome web browser worthless

[David Wright]

On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 16:00:24 (-0400), gene heskett wrote:
> On 8/2/23 15:15, Brian wrote:
> > On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 14:52:26 -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> > > On 8/2/23 14:26, Brian wrote:
> > > > No - that isn't the way it works. Give what is asked for, not a censored
> > > > version that suits you.
> > > > 
> > > ok, same cat in full:
> > > gene@bpi52:~$ cat /etc/hosts
> > > 127.0.0.1   localhost
> > > 192.168.71.1router.coyote.den router
> > > 192.168.71.3coyote.coyote.den   coyote
> > > 192.168.71.4sixty40.coyote.den  sixty40
> > > 192.168.71.7vna.coyote.den  vna
> > > 192.168.71.8rock64v2.coyote.den rock64v2
> > > 192.168.71.9bpi51.coyote.denbpi51
> > > 192.168.71.10   go704.coyote.dengo704
> > > 192.168.71.11   bpi53.coyote.denbpi53
> > > 192.168.71.12   bpi54.coyote.denbpi54
> > > 192.168.71.13   rpi4.coyote.den rpi4
> > > 192.168.71.21   scanner.coyte.den   scanner
> > > 192.168.71.22   rock64.coyote.den   rock64
> > > 192.168.71.23   bpi52.coyote.denbpi52
> > > 192.168.71.25   tlm.coyote.den  tlm
> > > 192.168.71.50   dddprint.coyote.dn  dddprint
> > > 31.184.194.81   Sci-Hub.se
> > 
> > Where is the line with 127.0.1.1? Debian always provides that.
> > 
> True, but I've never seen a description of what that does or what its
> for.

AIUI it means that your hostname is always resolvable and reachable
regardless of whether the network is yet configured.

I assume the listing above was taken off one of the machines in
the list. I assume you can always ping localhost and 127.0.1.1
(or, for that matter, 127.any.any.any) even if you remove its
network cable (to save downing the interface). However, I would
expect that you can't ping foo (where foo is the hostname) under
the same circumstances (whereas I can).

I have no idea whether it has anything to do with your problem;
I kind of doubt it. I thought you'd solved that anyway, by
typing in the full URL (and then bookmarking it, I hope).

> So I've removed it from every machine here because its out of
> scope for 127.0.0.1.

I'm not sure what you mean by scope. 127.0.0.0 is /8 isn't it?

Cheers,
David.

Re: AMD GPU hard lockups

[Celejar]

On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 22:37:50 +0100
piorunz  wrote:

> On 02/08/2023 22:29, Celejar wrote:
> > The Z440 officially supports up to an NVIDIA Quadro K6000 12GB, which
> > draws 234 watts, so it ought to be able to handle my Red Devil RX-570.
> > The Red Devil specifies a minimum system power of 450 watts, and my
> > Z440's PSU is 700 watts:
> 
> More detailed info:
> https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/powercolor-red-devil-rx-570-oc.b4455
> 
> Your GPU max TDP is 150W, meaning it will draw 75W from PCI-E slot and
> 75W from 8-pin cable.
> Your 8-pin adapter must have been very poor quality. I don't know what
> kind of adapter it was, but adapters which make 8-pin from 6-pin, are
> dangerous. Better to use 2x 6-pin -> 1x 8-pin adapter to correctly
> assign wires to each corresponding pin.

I'm not sure I understand your point: if we assume that the fact that
my adapter burned indicates that my particular adapter must have been of
very poor quality, than this implies that such adapters in general are
not dangerous (which, as I've noted, is supported by the fact that
reputable companies sell them, with no warnings that they're dangerous).

-- 
Celejar

Re: perl module listgarden

[David Christensen]

On 8/2/23 14:03, Russell L. Harris wrote:

I have not used Perl for several years, and I do not know how to
proceed.
I am trying to install Dan Bricklin's RSS feed generator, ListGarden.

metacpan.org cannot find the listgarden module.

Here is the output:

perl listgarden.pl
Can't locate ListGarden.pm in @INC (you may need to install the
ListGarden module) (@INC contains: /etc/perl
/usr/local/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl/5.32.1
/usr/local/share/perl/5.32.1 /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl5/5.32
/usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl-base
/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl/5.32 /usr/share/perl/5.32
/usr/local/lib/site_perl) at listgarden.pl line 21.
BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at listgarden.pl line 21.



ListGarden does not appear to be a Debian package:

https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=LIstGarden&searchon=names&suite=all§ion=all


MetaCPAN is unable to find ListGarden:

https://metacpan.org/search?size=20&q=ListGarden


STFW "ListGarden" I see:

http://www.softwaregarden.com/products/listgarden/


Under "How to get it", follow the link "Generic Perl Version":

http://www.softwaregarden.com/products/listgarden/plainperl.html


The instructions do not mention a Makefile.PL or Build.PL, so it appears 
that you will need to install distribution files, adjust the PERL5LIB 
environment variable, configure your services/ apps, etc., manually.



David

Re: AMD GPU hard lockups

[piorunz]

On 02/08/2023 22:29, Celejar wrote:

The Z440 officially supports up to an NVIDIA Quadro K6000 12GB, which
draws 234 watts, so it ought to be able to handle my Red Devil RX-570.
The Red Devil specifies a minimum system power of 450 watts, and my
Z440's PSU is 700 watts:


More detailed info:
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/powercolor-red-devil-rx-570-oc.b4455

Your GPU max TDP is 150W, meaning it will draw 75W from PCI-E slot and
75W from 8-pin cable.
Your 8-pin adapter must have been very poor quality. I don't know what
kind of adapter it was, but adapters which make 8-pin from 6-pin, are
dangerous. Better to use 2x 6-pin -> 1x 8-pin adapter to correctly
assign wires to each corresponding pin.

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄

Re: AMD GPU hard lockups

[Celejar]

On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 23:12:02 +0200
zithro  wrote:

> On 02 Aug 2023 03:21, Celejar wrote:
> > when I opened the case, sure enough, the
> > cable feeding the GPU had burned and broken.
> > 
> > Fortunately, I don't see damage to the system's power cable or to the
> > GPU itself, just to the 6 pin to 8 pin PCIE adapter cable (the HP PSU
> > has only 6 pin cables, and the GPU needs an 8 pin connection). I
> [...]
> > 
> > I'm going to order another one, from a reputable company this time, and
> > hope that it was just the cheapo implementation that was flawed, and
> > not the whole concept of 6 pin to 8 pin adapter cables ...
> > 
> 
> Cables can burn because too much current (Amps) is flowing through them.
> As problems only happen when gaming (or heavily using the GPU), this may 
> be the case.
> 
> I think your GPU is drawing too much current from the 6 pins PSU rail.
> (Are any other peripherals connected on the GPU rail ?).

I don't think so.

> I'd also compare the power requirements of the GPU to the total Amps the 
> GPU PSU rail can provide (each rail and voltage has specific specs).

The Z440 officially supports up to an NVIDIA Quadro K6000 12GB, which
draws 234 watts, so it ought to be able to handle my Red Devil RX-570.
The Red Devil specifies a minimum system power of 450 watts, and my
Z440's PSU is 700 watts:

https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c04506309#AbT3
https://www.powercolor.com/product?id=1493267392#spe

> The difference between 6 and 8 pins can be seen like the difference of 
> cable section between a small lamp and a computer (or a microwave).
> Power your computer or microwave with a lamp cable, and you'll see a 
> nice fire.
> 
> If the designers used 8 pins, my wild guess is that it has a reason ;)

But reputable companies do produce 6-8 pin adapters, e.g.:

https://www.startech.com/en-us/where-to-buy/PCIEX68ADAP
https://www.microcenter.com/product/615426/micro-connectors-6-pin-to-8-pin-pcie-adapter-power-cable-black-yellow
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Cable-Matters-2-Pack-6-Pin-PCIe-to-8-Pin-PCIe-Adapter-Power-Cable-4-Inches/944325506

(I just ordered the Cable Matters one.)

-- 
Celejar

Re: AMD GPU hard lockups

[zithro]

On 02 Aug 2023 03:21, Celejar wrote:

when I opened the case, sure enough, the
cable feeding the GPU had burned and broken.

Fortunately, I don't see damage to the system's power cable or to the
GPU itself, just to the 6 pin to 8 pin PCIE adapter cable (the HP PSU
has only 6 pin cables, and the GPU needs an 8 pin connection). I

[...]


I'm going to order another one, from a reputable company this time, and
hope that it was just the cheapo implementation that was flawed, and
not the whole concept of 6 pin to 8 pin adapter cables ...



Cables can burn because too much current (Amps) is flowing through them.
As problems only happen when gaming (or heavily using the GPU), this may 
be the case.


I think your GPU is drawing too much current from the 6 pins PSU rail.
(Are any other peripherals connected on the GPU rail ?).

I'd also compare the power requirements of the GPU to the total Amps the 
GPU PSU rail can provide (each rail and voltage has specific specs).


The difference between 6 and 8 pins can be seen like the difference of 
cable section between a small lamp and a computer (or a microwave).
Power your computer or microwave with a lamp cable, and you'll see a 
nice fire.


If the designers used 8 pins, my wild guess is that it has a reason ;)

perl module listgarden

[Russell L. Harris]

I have not used Perl for several years, and I do not know how to
proceed.  


I am trying to install Dan Bricklin's RSS feed generator, ListGarden.

metacpan.org cannot find the listgarden module.

Here is the output:

perl listgarden.pl
Can't locate ListGarden.pm in @INC (you may need to install the
ListGarden module) (@INC contains: /etc/perl
/usr/local/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl/5.32.1
/usr/local/share/perl/5.32.1 /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl5/5.32
/usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl-base
/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl/5.32 /usr/share/perl/5.32
/usr/local/lib/site_perl) at listgarden.pl line 21.
BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at listgarden.pl line 21.

--
He turneth rivers into a wilderness, and the watersprings into dry
ground; a fruitful land into barrenness, for the wickedness of them
that dwell therein. - Psalm 107:33-34

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[gene heskett]

On 8/2/23 15:17, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 08:14:41PM +0100, Brian wrote:

Where is the line with 127.0.1.1? Debian always provides that.


Either deleted, or not provided by Armbian in the first place.  In any
case, it's not immediately relevant to this thread's issue, so long as
the web service doesn't redirect to the system's hostname.

.


That might be a possibility, but it comes and goes, sometimes bpi52:80 
works, next week it doesn't. That does not get the google intercept, 
just a 403 when it fails.


I might be able to buy your google excuses if it waited till I pressed 
enter on a filled in address line, but this requester ppps up, disabling 
the keyboard with the first click to get focus on the address line. And 
it pre-fills the address line with a 100+ character google address/path.


You cannot convince me that is not intentional...

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[gene heskett]

On 8/2/23 15:15, Brian wrote:

On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 14:52:26 -0400, gene heskett wrote:


On 8/2/23 14:26, Brian wrote:

No - that isn't the way it works. Give what is asked for, not a censored
version that suits you.


ok, same cat in full:
gene@bpi52:~$ cat /etc/hosts
127.0.0.1   localhost
192.168.71.1router.coyote.den   router
192.168.71.3coyote.coyote.den   coyote
192.168.71.4sixty40.coyote.den  sixty40
192.168.71.7vna.coyote.den  vna
192.168.71.8rock64v2.coyote.den rock64v2
192.168.71.9bpi51.coyote.denbpi51
192.168.71.10   go704.coyote.dengo704
192.168.71.11   bpi53.coyote.denbpi53
192.168.71.12   bpi54.coyote.denbpi54
192.168.71.13   rpi4.coyote.den rpi4
192.168.71.21   scanner.coyte.den   scanner
192.168.71.22   rock64.coyote.den   rock64
192.168.71.23   bpi52.coyote.denbpi52
192.168.71.25   tlm.coyote.den  tlm
192.168.71.50   dddprint.coyote.dn  dddprint
31.184.194.81   Sci-Hub.se


Where is the line with 127.0.1.1? Debian always provides that.

True, but I've never seen a description of what that does or what its 
for. So I've removed it from every machine here because its out of scope 
for 127.0.0.1.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[Lee]

On 8/2/23, Brian wrote:
> On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 14:52:26 -0400, gene heskett wrote:
>
>> On 8/2/23 14:26, Brian wrote:
>> > No - that isn't the way it works. Give what is asked for, not a
>> > censored
>> > version that suits you.
>> >
>> ok, same cat in full:
>> gene@bpi52:~$ cat /etc/hosts
>> 127.0.0.1   localhost
  < ... snip ... >

> Where is the line with 127.0.1.1? Debian always provides that.

$ egrep '^127' /etc/hosts
127.0.0.1   localhost

lee@spot ~
$ uname -a
Linux spot 5.10.0-23-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.179-2 (2023-07-14)
x86_64 GNU/Linux

Regards,
Lee

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[Greg Wooledge]

On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 08:14:41PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> Where is the line with 127.0.1.1? Debian always provides that.

Either deleted, or not provided by Armbian in the first place.  In any
case, it's not immediately relevant to this thread's issue, so long as
the web service doesn't redirect to the system's hostname.

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[Andy Smith]

Gene,

On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 02:05:48PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> this is a blatent attack by chrome

You've absolutely no evidence to suggest that, and other people
have already pointed out they are unable to replicate your issues.
Like almost every thread you start or derail here this is
overwhelmingly more likely to be user error than anything else. On
top of that you're talking about non-Debian software on a non-Debian
OS, so how about taking these ridiculous outbursts to a non-Debian
forum? Like you've already been asked to do.

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[gene heskett]

On 8/2/23 14:26, Brian wrote:

On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 13:07:13 -0400, gene heskett wrote:


On 8/2/23 07:14, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 08:43:32AM +0100, Darac Marjal wrote:

* "localhost:80" - This is ambiguous


[...]


It would be nice if we had an exact recipe for how to reproduce the
problem.  Failing that, it'll be up to Gene to debug the situation on
his end.  I'm still leaning toward an edited /etc/hosts file.



At this point Greg, I'll plead guilty to a hand edited /etc/hosts file.
So here it is, tell me whats wrong:

gene@bpi52:~$ cat /etc/hosts
127.0.0.1   localhost

There is more of course but the rest of it is private local network
(192.168.xxx.yyy) addresses of no concern here.


No - that isn't the way it works. Give what is asked for, not a censored
version that suits you.


ok, same cat in full:
gene@bpi52:~$ cat /etc/hosts
127.0.0.1   localhost
192.168.71.1router.coyote.den   router
192.168.71.3coyote.coyote.den   coyote
192.168.71.4sixty40.coyote.den  sixty40
192.168.71.7vna.coyote.den  vna
192.168.71.8rock64v2.coyote.den rock64v2
192.168.71.9bpi51.coyote.denbpi51
192.168.71.10   go704.coyote.dengo704
192.168.71.11   bpi53.coyote.denbpi53
192.168.71.12   bpi54.coyote.denbpi54
192.168.71.13   rpi4.coyote.den rpi4
192.168.71.21   scanner.coyte.den   scanner
192.168.71.22   rock64.coyote.den   rock64
192.168.71.23   bpi52.coyote.denbpi52
192.168.71.25   tlm.coyote.den  tlm
192.168.71.50   dddprint.coyote.dn  dddprint
31.184.194.81   Sci-Hub.se

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[gene heskett]

On 8/2/23 13:21, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 01:07:13PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:

On 8/2/23 07:14, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 08:43:32AM +0100, Darac Marjal wrote:

* "localhost:80" - This is ambiguous


[...]


It would be nice if we had an exact recipe for how to reproduce the
problem.  Failing that, it'll be up to Gene to debug the situation on
his end.  I'm still leaning toward an edited /etc/hosts file.



At this point Greg, I'll plead guilty to a hand edited /etc/hosts file.
So here it is, tell me whats wrong:

gene@bpi52:~$ cat /etc/hosts
127.0.0.1   localhost

There is more of course but the rest of it is private local network
(192.168.xxx.yyy) addresses of no concern here.


Well, that looks reasonable.  You're missing the IPv6 entry, but that
probably doesn't matter.  So, assuming there are no other occurrences
of the word "localhost", whatever is causing the problem probably
lies elsewhere.

Did you attempt any other diagnostics?  Typing the full URL including
the http:// part, or launching Chrome with a new profile?  Are you able
to reproduce the problem consistently, and if so, how?  What are the
exact symptoms you see?

Another thing to try, which I forgot to mention last time, would be using
the IP address directly:  http://127.0.0.1/   That bypasses any hostname
lookup issues that may exist.  It's pretty unlikely that a web service
running on localhost would care whether you addressed it by name or by IP
address (virtual hosts on loopback are not commonplace AFAIK).

Its idle atm, so I'll give that a shot, brb. A click on the empty 
address line gets me a menu from google. this pops up with the first 
character typed, but if I continue with //127.0.0.1:80, I see a ; 
replacing the : and the 80 disappears but it does work, and I am looking 
at the klipper web page, used to run the printer. And everything seems 
to work.  And work about 3x faster after I had used one of 
klipper/mainsail's options to check and update first the OS, and then 
all of kiauh. Screen response is around 3 or 4x faster, both on its own 
screen and with FF watching it at bpi52:80 from here.  A welcome speedup.


Thanks fpr the hint, Greg, very useful.

.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[gene heskett]

On 8/2/23 09:42, Stefan Monnier wrote:

It would be nice if we had an exact recipe for how to reproduce the
problem.  Failing that, it'll be up to Gene to debug the situation on
his end.  I'm still leaning toward an edited /etc/hosts file.


My guess is that his Chrome runs in a kind of container that doesn't
have access to the host's port 80.  Similar to the problem of trying to
print to a printer on your local network when you have a VPN active
which redirects *all* network connections through the VPN.


 Stefan


Stefan: I won't be that kind to the big G. Unless Greg W. can tell me 
I'm wrong with my localhost entry in my /etc/hosts file on that machine 
this is a blatent attack by chrome to feed the starving maw of the big 
G's appetite for data about what your are searching for, and because of 
that, my spam has input doubled in the last week based on my attempts to 
access localhost:80 on that machine.  The big G hasn't a clue what to 
connect me to, but that sure as hell doesn't prevent them from 
harvesting the src address so they can spam me...


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[Greg Wooledge]

On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 01:07:13PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> On 8/2/23 07:14, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 08:43:32AM +0100, Darac Marjal wrote:
> > > * "localhost:80" - This is ambiguous
> > > 
> [...]
> > 
> > It would be nice if we had an exact recipe for how to reproduce the
> > problem.  Failing that, it'll be up to Gene to debug the situation on
> > his end.  I'm still leaning toward an edited /etc/hosts file.
> > 
> 
> At this point Greg, I'll plead guilty to a hand edited /etc/hosts file.
> So here it is, tell me whats wrong:
> 
> gene@bpi52:~$ cat /etc/hosts
> 127.0.0.1   localhost
> 
> There is more of course but the rest of it is private local network
> (192.168.xxx.yyy) addresses of no concern here.

Well, that looks reasonable.  You're missing the IPv6 entry, but that
probably doesn't matter.  So, assuming there are no other occurrences
of the word "localhost", whatever is causing the problem probably
lies elsewhere.

Did you attempt any other diagnostics?  Typing the full URL including
the http:// part, or launching Chrome with a new profile?  Are you able
to reproduce the problem consistently, and if so, how?  What are the
exact symptoms you see?

Another thing to try, which I forgot to mention last time, would be using
the IP address directly:  http://127.0.0.1/   That bypasses any hostname
lookup issues that may exist.  It's pretty unlikely that a web service
running on localhost would care whether you addressed it by name or by IP
address (virtual hosts on loopback are not commonplace AFAIK).

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[gene heskett]

On 8/2/23 07:14, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 08:43:32AM +0100, Darac Marjal wrote:

* "localhost:80" - This is ambiguous


[...]


It would be nice if we had an exact recipe for how to reproduce the
problem.  Failing that, it'll be up to Gene to debug the situation on
his end.  I'm still leaning toward an edited /etc/hosts file.



At this point Greg, I'll plead guilty to a hand edited /etc/hosts file.
So here it is, tell me whats wrong:

gene@bpi52:~$ cat /etc/hosts
127.0.0.1   localhost

There is more of course but the rest of it is private local network 
(192.168.xxx.yyy) addresses of no concern here.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: OT: Protecting electrical equipment; was: Recommendations for a UPS?

[gene heskett]

On 8/1/23 18:46, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
On Tue, Aug 1, 2023, 1:09 PM gene heskett > wrote:


On 8/1/23 11:03, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
 > On Tue, Aug 1, 2023, 2:40 AM Michael Kjörling
<2695bd53d...@ewoof.net 
 > >>
wrote:
 >
 >     On 31 Jul 2023 15:21 -0400, from songb...@anthive.com

 >     >
(songbird):
 >      >   i do not run things for long when the power goes out
 >      > but the capacity for my needs is plenty and then i shut
 >      > down in an orderly fashion.  most of the time i shut down
 >      > the computer system and unplug the power cord and the
 >      > network cables and antenna cables if there is a storm
 >      > coming through - just out of the idea that i don't really
 >      > want things to get fried.
 >
I replaced the original 60 amp service in 2008 with a 200, and brought
this grandfathered 2970 house service up to code, doing all the
internal
work myself. I have a big ups running everything but the lights and
printers in this room, got rid of the copper telephone because the
cable
was 70 years old, 50 pair paper insulated cable they would not keep
working for a week at a time, so after 5 months of that I voted with my
wallet and hooked all that up to the cable system. I must have done
something right, I have not even blown a ccfl light bulb since and it
all runs 24/7/365.25.


In your case then, you may need to pay attention to transients in your 
cabling plant. Everytime a large motor starts, revs or stops, those 
transients are hitting your cabling. My recollection is that you have 
machine tools in addition to electronics and climate control. Even more 
so then. Also grounding for your electrical system has to be proven 
over-adequate. And any possible ground-loops need to be found and 
remediated.


This is true also, but I am a C.E.T. and learned decades ago that 
electrical grounds ack the NEC are specced from their experience based 
on what works, and to wire logical circuits with a single bolt star 
ground. I do appreciate the concern, Nic.  Call it evangelizing, 
whatever, but it does need an occasional sermon to the non-electrical 
types out there. I've long ago quit counting the number of electrical 
problems I have corrected, created by folks carrying Journeymen cards in 
their billfold. And STILL can't tell the diff between the Neutral and 
the static ground. I've long since given up trying to teach them about 
multiphase power. Most know enough to interchange any two wires feeding 
a 3 phase motor if it runs backwards. The "Why"+ it runs backwards is 
above their pay grade.


 > It's worth mentioning that with a good UPS you get
power-conditioning,
 > not just filtering and over/under-voltage protection. That can
extend
 > the lifetime of any electric motor or other device using the
conditioned
 > power. The UPS emits a controlled waveform beyond what your
utility can
 > provide.
 >
 > And numerous datacenters have begun using DC-powered racks. Less
power
 > loss in the individual transformers and motors in each racked
server,
 > less heat to be expelled.



Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: OT: Re: Recommendations for a UPS?

[john doe]

On 7/31/23 20:47, Tom Browder wrote:

On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 13:28 john doe  wrote:


On 7/31/23 19:23, Tom Browder wrote:


...


Any recommenndations from fellow Debian folks?




I have two APC and I'm pretty happy with those.


Would you mind saying the model numbers? Do they have replaceable batteries?



Back-UPS XS 950U, no!

--
John Doe

Re: CVE-2022-27385 - Vendor Dependency Check In

[to...@tuxteam.de]

On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 01:58:21PM +, Julius Ross (juliross) wrote:
> Thank you for getting back to me, Tomas,

[...]

Great if I could help.

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: CVE-2022-27385 - Vendor Dependency Check In

[Julius Ross (juliross)]

Thank you for getting back to me, Tomas,

I’ll continue looking into their available options for the ask – for reference, 
I was looking for something similar to Ubuntu’s Cononcial service, where cases 
can be created for tracking.

Best,

Julius Ross
Security Engineer - Vulnerability Management | NY
julir...@cisco.com | M: 917.780.9334

[signature_3011522949]


From: to...@tuxteam.de 
Date: Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 12:40 AM
To: Julius Ross (juliross) 
Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
Subject: Re: CVE-2022-27385 - Vendor Dependency Check In
On Tue, Aug 01, 2023 at 09:45:59PM +, Julius Ross (juliross) wrote: > Hi 
team, We are not a "team" -- we are Debian users, as the mailing list name 
suggests. That said... > We're looking for a contact or direction on gaining 
updates on open vulnerabilities relating to known CVEs. Can you point us to the 
correct forum or support email address? We want to be able to track these 
vulnerabilities and when fixes become available. ... Debian does (almost) 
everything in the open, so the first (non-advert) two hits in my favourite 
search engine (no, not that one with the G) for the terms "debian cve 
vulnerabilities" lead to: https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/ 
https://www.debian.org/security/cve-compatibility which is probably more or 
less what you are looking for. Apart from that, there are (at least) two 
security related mailing lists, whose subscribe pages you'll find here: 
https://lists.debian.org/debian-security/ 
https://lists.debian.org/debian-security-announce/ of which the second one 
might be of interest to you. Cheers -- t

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[Stefan Monnier]

> It would be nice if we had an exact recipe for how to reproduce the
> problem.  Failing that, it'll be up to Gene to debug the situation on
> his end.  I'm still leaning toward an edited /etc/hosts file.

My guess is that his Chrome runs in a kind of container that doesn't
have access to the host's port 80.  Similar to the problem of trying to
print to a printer on your local network when you have a VPN active
which redirects *all* network connections through the VPN.


Stefan

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[Greg Wooledge]

On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 08:43:32AM +0100, Darac Marjal wrote:
> * "localhost:80" - This is ambiguous
> 
> In the case of the latter, are you wanting to use the localhost scheme to
> access the resource called 80 (now, you're going to say "There is no
> protocol called localhost" and I think that Chrome used to know which
> protocols exist but now it's a bit more agnostic)?

Even doing it this way -- typing "localhost:80" into the URL/search bar
and pressing Enter -- I still get the correct result.  What I typed
gets converted to "http://localhost/"; but is displayed as merely
"localhost" in the URL/search bar.  I only know about the
"http://localhost/"; part because if I multi-click the URL and then
paste it into a terminal, that's what I get.

(I do find it disturbing that what you get in the copy/paste buffer is
different from what you see in the application.)

So, I'm still unable to reproduce Gene's results, even with your added
guesswork.

It would be nice if we had an exact recipe for how to reproduce the
problem.  Failing that, it'll be up to Gene to debug the situation on
his end.  I'm still leaning toward an edited /etc/hosts file.

Re: homebrew for debian or ubuntu

[Sijmen J. Mulder]

Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> Homebrew only supports the last release or two on MacOS. Today, you
> might see support for Version 13: "Ventura" and Version 12:
> "Monterey". Anything else and you had to use MacPorts.

Or pkgsrc*, which isn't quite as popular but supports (or can be made to
support) pretty much everything and it's a good citizen. Sticks to its
own prefix.

On Debian I use it to use newer versions of a handful of command-line
tools and libraries (for development and testing). I don't have it added
to my PATH by default so it doesn't get in the way. It doesn't work so
well for GUI apps though, doesn't pick op fonts and themes so it's tofu
everywhere. Possibly something that can be fixed by tweaking some
configuraton somwhere..

*) for disclosure, I maintain some packages on pkgsrc

Sijmen

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[Darac Marjal]

On 01/08/2023 10:33, gene heskett wrote:
Google seems to have high jacked port 80, I cannot use it as a browser 
to run klipper as a google search intercepts port 80, so localhost:80 
cannot be used for troubleshooting or for running a 3d printer with 
klipper..


I think this comes down to an ambiguity in how Chrome parses the input:

* "Pictures of Cats" - Clearly not a URI, so pass it to the default 
search engine


* "http://http.cat/302"; - Clearly a URI, so navigate to it

* "localhost:80" - This is ambiguous

In the case of the latter, are you wanting to use the localhost scheme 
to access the resource called 80 (now, you're going to say "There is no 
protocol called localhost" and I think that Chrome used to know which 
protocols exist but now it's a bit more agnostic)?



Try being explicit about the scheme (i.e. type "http://localhost:80";) 
and see if Chrome is happier.





FF has no such problems.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.


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Re: CVE-2022-27385 - Vendor Dependency Check In

[Michel Verdier]

On 2023-08-01, Julius Ross (juliross) wrote:

> We're looking for a contact or direction on gaining updates on open
> vulnerabilities relating to known CVEs. Can you point us to the correct forum
> or support email address? We want to be able to track these vulnerabilities
> and when fixes become available.

Package debsecan is perhaps what you are looking for. It lists
vulnerabilities for your system and indicates fixes available.
You can automate reports and blacklist vulnerabilities unrelevant to your
installation.