Re: Telnet

[Nicolas George]

to...@tuxteam.de (12023-12-05):
> It does have a line mode with local echo (meaning you can type without 
> anything
> being sent until you hit ENTER, with limited line editing capabilities 
> (backspace
> and things). No readline's full power, though: that was more like a 
> Christmas's
> wish :-)

Oh, you mean that. That is not telnet, that comes from the kernel. Even
sleep has this.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George

Re: Recommended simple PDF viewer to replace Evince

[yxcv]

On Mon, 4 Dec 2023 17:12:28 -0600
 Tom Browder  wrote:

I have used Evince as my PDF viewer and printer program for many
years. It still works, but it has been spitting out error messages 
for

a very long time. to wit:

   (evince:81435): EvinceView-CRITICAL **: 16:44:57.520: \
   ev_pixbuf_cache_set_selection_list: \
   assertion 'EV_IS_PIXBUF_CACHE (pixbuf_cache)' failed

The help option doesn't shed any light to me, but it does reference
the website. However, every time I've tried the site throws an 
error.

That also has been happening for a LONG time.

I would like to use another program which is similar but has good
documentation. I don't need a heavy duty program like LibreOffice,
Just something for viewing and printing.

A bonus would be one with documented CLI use with CUPS printers.

Thanks for any recommendations.

Best regards,

-Tom


Okular, Xpdf?

Re: Print flakes off mailing labels, use a fixative?

[D MacDougall]

On 12/4/23 16:52, Tom Browder wrote:


HP printer and toner, Office Depot labels.

I bought so hair spray and will try that.

-Tom


I just looked at Office Depot website and the only labels I see that are 
for both laser and inkjet are an off brand.  I see why you went for the 
off brand, they are a whole lot cheaper than the Avery labels the same 
size, but maybe this is why.  100 sheets for $13. Twice as many labels 
for 1/3 the price.  I might have tried them too.


I really don't see how hairspray or any other liquid spray could do any 
good.  If you think it will seep under the toner and glue it down that 
seems problematic to me and it might make the labels peel off. 
Cellophane tape might work better.


I think you said that you took the label to the UPS store and their 
printer had the same problem so the problem is definitely the labels and 
best just swallow hard and buy the Avery labels.  (Or just write the 
address with a ball point pen.)


-Don

Re: Recommended simple PDF viewer to replace Evince

[Marco Moock]

Am 04.12.2023 um 17:12:28 Uhr schrieb Tom Browder:

> I would like to use another program which is similar but has good
> documentation. I don't need a heavy duty program like LibreOffice,
> Just something for viewing and printing.

Try xpdf, but be aware it doesn't support forms nor other special stuff
in PDF like video.

Re: Recommended simple PDF viewer to replace Evince

[Marco Moock]

Am 04.12.2023 um 19:19:37 Uhr schrieb Paul M Foster:

> Don't think it has a CLI interface. However, I would imagine that
> simply feeding a PDF to the printer should work for printing. I could
> be wrong, though.

IIRC that depends on the printer.

Simply running lpr file.pdf didn't work for my printers.

Re: Recommended simple PDF viewer to replace Evince

[gene heskett]

On 12/4/23 19:20, Paul M Foster wrote:

On Mon, Dec 04, 2023 at 05:12:28PM -0600, Tom Browder wrote:


I have used Evince as my PDF viewer and printer program for many
years. It still works, but it has been spitting out error messages for
a very long time. to wit:

 (evince:81435): EvinceView-CRITICAL **: 16:44:57.520: \
 ev_pixbuf_cache_set_selection_list: \
 assertion 'EV_IS_PIXBUF_CACHE (pixbuf_cache)' failed

The help option doesn't shed any light to me, but it does reference
the website. However, every time I've tried the site throws an error.
That also has been happening for a LONG time.

I would like to use another program which is similar but has good
documentation. I don't need a heavy duty program like LibreOffice,
Just something for viewing and printing.

A bonus would be one with documented CLI use with CUPS printers.

Thanks for any recommendations.

Best regards,

-Tom



I use xpdf, which is extremely simple and will allow printing. Don't think
it has a CLI interface. However, I would imagine that simply feeding a PDF
to the printer should work for printing. I could be wrong, though.

Paul


And I've used okular, which is much like evince.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: Recommended simple PDF viewer to replace Evince

[Mike Castle]

I use Evince probably once a week or so from the command line.  I do
not see that error, though I think I have in the past.  I suspect that
if you are seeing those issues with the current bookworm release, it
is likely a problem local to you.

You could be missing a package that evince expects to be there, but
there is a missing dependency (likely, making it a Debian problem).
You could have configured something some time ago that no longer makes
sense, either Gnome based as a whole, something local to Evince, etc,
or a cache corruption (which makes it a local issue which could be a
challenge to track down).  Or a good old fashioned bug somewhere along
the line (perhaps making it a Gnome/Evince bug).

One URL from the man page, http://www.gnome.org/projects/evince/,
seems to go through a series of JavaScript based redirects to end up
at https://apps.gnome.org.  That does give a GitLab based 404 error.
I'm not sure if that is the "throws an error" situation you were
referring to or not.  Possibly related, https://circle.gnome.org gives
the same 404.  Both of those links are listed in the footer of
https:///www.gnome.org/.

However, there is another site listed in the man page:
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/evince/issues , and that does appear to
work.  That might be another venue you can try if you want to resolve
the issue instead of abandoning Evince.

As far as alternatives, I think both current versions of Firefox and
Chrome support PDFs natively.  Also, before I started using evince, I
used to use gv (based on ghostview) quite a bit.  The following seems
to list most of the various programs discussed in this thread, plus a
couple of others:

apt-cache search pdf-viewer

mrc

Re: Telnet

[tomas]

On Mon, Dec 04, 2023 at 08:29:04PM +0100, Nicolas George wrote:
> to...@tuxteam.de (12023-12-04):
> > Back then (TM) (must have been 1990ies or so) I knew. And I sometimes still
> > miss the "easy interactivity". I haven't investigated whether there is an
> > equivalent socat mode (say line-mode with readline editing or something). 
> > That
> > would be a market niche, wouldn't it?
> 
> I am not sure what you are saying: telnet does not have a line mode with
> readline editing;

It does have a line mode with local echo (meaning you can type without anything
being sent until you hit ENTER, with limited line editing capabilities 
(backspace
and things). No readline's full power, though: that was more like a Christmas's
wish :-)

>  anything of that kind you observe is on the server
> side.

I know Telnet too well, I'm /that/ old (and I just tried it against the local
Web server: yes, it has a line mode and it even is the default). I think we
don't remember how bad network latency could be back then. Line mode was 
essential.

> socat, OTOH, has.

Now that's good news: Christmas can come -- thanks for the hint :)

Cheers
-- 
t


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Mailing List

[David Wright]

On Sun 03 Dec 2023 at 10:01:25 (+0100), Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> David Wright wrote:
> > I'm subscribed, but I don't receive that badge of honour.
> > This is from my other post in this thread—no LDOSUBSCRIBER:
> >
> > >   X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.9 required=4.0 tests=CAPINIT,FOURLA,
> > > HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,LDO_WHITELIST,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,
> > > T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
> > > version=3.4.2
> 
> This is known to happen if the mail is sent from an address that is different
> from the subscribed mail address. Maybe you discovered a new cause.
> 
> 
> > I'm guessing your last example is Curt's.
> > >   X-Spam-Status: No,
> > > score=-10.5 required=4.0 tests=FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,
> > > FREEMAIL_FROM,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,LDOSUBSCRIBER,
> > > LDO_WHITELIST,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=unavailable
> > > autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2
> 
> Yes. It's from:
> 
>   Subject: Re: rhs time out error?
>   Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2023 16:30:02 - (UTC)
>   Message-ID: 
> 
> > The only occurrence of
> > the From: address in the entire email is in the From: line.
> > That's no different from my own post, except for the lines at the
> > very top, which show my post being delivered to me.
> >
> > I had thought the server was using the envelope-from in order to
> > identify subscribers, yet Curt's posts, like mine, have different
> > envelope-from and From: addresses, which is presumably the reason
> > behind HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS.
> 
> HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS would have been my first suspicion, too.
> But i see no "envelope-from" Curt's mail and yours.
> Only
>   Envelope-To: 
> (If "envelope-from" is a typo and "Envelope-To:" differs from "From:",
> then we'd probably have the situation of different sender and receiver.)

As you can see from the headers I've posted below, what the
envelope-to (RCPT) gets called depends on the hosting service.
In my case, it's the X-Original-To: header. (As the list server
generates it, it won't take part in spam detection, of course.)

OTOH the envelope-from (MAIL/MAIL FROM) is, I presume, of great
interest to the spam scanners, perhaps more than the From:
address itself, because it's more likely to be checked by the mail
submission system. Curt's envelope-from is embedded in a Received:
header, pasted here with some surrounding context:

  Received: from ciao.gmane.io (ciao.gmane.io [116.202.254.214])
  (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)
  key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) 
server-digest SHA256)
  (Client did not present a certificate)
  by bendel.debian.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D0D83205F2
  for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2023 16:30:11 + (UTC)
  Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92)
  (envelope-from )
  id 1r7I1I-0001BZ-JA
  for debian-user@lists.debian.org; Sun, 26 Nov 2023 17:30:08 +0100
  X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/
  To: debian-user@lists.debian.org

> It would be interesting to see all "Received:" headers of your own
> mail when it arrives back to you. I see in your mail to which i now reply:
> 
>   Received: from bendel.debian.org ([82.195.75.100]) by mx-ha.gmx.net
> (mxgmx109
>  [212.227.17.5]) with ESMTPS (Nemesis) id 1MZzsi-1qmfcQ0kRo-00R0wN for
>  ; Sun, 03 Dec 2023 05:24:06 +0100
>   Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
> by bendel.debian.org (Postfix) with QMQP
> id 0F8C9209D5; Sun,  3 Dec 2023 04:23:55 + (UTC)
>   Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
> by bendel.debian.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0413D20837
> for ; Sun,
> 3 Dec 2023 04:23:42 + (UTC)
>   Received: from bendel.debian.org ([127.0.0.1])
> by localhost (lists.debian.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 2525)
> with ESMTP id 1Ym_tsLfWzf6 for ;
> Sun,  3 Dec 2023 04:23:33 + (UTC)
>   Received: from omta012.uswest2.a.cloudfilter.net
> (omta012.uswest2.a.cloudfilter.net [35.164.127.235])
> (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits))
> (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified))
> by bendel.debian.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1A7BD209C6
> for ; Sun,
> 3 Dec 2023 04:23:32 + (UTC)
>   Received: from cxr.smtp.a.cloudfilter.net ([10.0.16.145])
> by cmsmtp with ESMTP
> id 9deErTpHpaga99e0vrCJA8; Sun, 03 Dec 2023 04:23:29 +
>   Received: from axis.corp ([68.102.133.185])
> by cmsmtp with ESMTPSA
> id 9e0srwhHYTywR9e0urtWnm; Sun, 03 Dec 2023 04:23:29 +
> 
> All these headers except the first were added on the sender side, i.e
> on the list server bendel.debian.org and in your mail provider's realm.
> 
> In a mail of mine to this list i see:
> 
>   Received: from bendel.debian.org ([82.195.75.100]) by mx-ha.gmx.net
> (mxgmx009
> [212.227.15.9]) with ESMTPS (Nemesis) id 1MMYsv-1qsRpG2aBT-00SPIm for
> ; Fri, 01 Dec 2023 21:11:45 +0100
>   Rec

Re: Mailing List

[David Wright]

On Fri 01 Dec 2023 at 20:39:51 (+), piorunz wrote:
> On 01/12/2023 16:15, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> 
> > > Your message is here, so you are subscribed :)
> > 
> > Not necessarily, you can post here as a non-subscriber. Actually I have
> > the hunch that the OP is not subscribed (going by the X-Spam-Status header).
> > 
> > Cheers
> 
> Oh, ok, I didn't know that. That's why the group receives so much spam
> lol -_-

Almost all the spam I receive addressed to deblis@… has not come
from the list server: the address deblis@… has been harvested.
Currently they're translators and cushions; last month I'd won
tens of millions of dollars many times over, from a slew of slebs.
And there's the perennial trickle of mailbox-full/hacked/expired
phishing expeditions. I don't blame the list admins.

Cheers,
David.

Re: ntpsec as server questions

[David Wright]

On Mon 04 Dec 2023 at 16:24:11 (-0500), gene heskett wrote:
> On 12/4/23 11:31, Dan Purgert wrote:
> > On Dec 04, 2023, gene heskett wrote:
> > > [...]
> > > So here on coyote: date -u:
> > > Mon Dec  4 15:47:44 UTC 2023
> > > but on mkspi: date -u:
> > > Mon 04 Dec 2023 03:47:16 PM UTC
> > > [...]
> > > 
> > > WTH?  Where is that false 12 hour offset coming from?
> > 
> > Coyote seems to use the standard output of 'date' (in 24-hour clock
> > format).
> > 
> > mkspi /appears/ to be using an approximation of "-R" ("--rfc-email",
> > as set in RFC5322), though it's missing the comma between "Mon" and "04
> > Dec", and is set in 12-hour mode.
> > 
> > It's been ages since I've dug into it, but I _BELIEVE_ the LC_TIME
> > environment variable has an effect here. (Or had, at some point in the
> > past).
> It might well be, Dan but no man page,

They're all documented together in   man locale, with examples:

  $ man locale | grep -A25 EXAMPLES
  EXAMPLES
   $ locale
   LANG=en_US.UTF-8
   LC_CTYPE="en_US.UTF-8"
   LC_NUMERIC="en_US.UTF-8"
   LC_TIME="en_US.UTF-8"
   LC_COLLATE="en_US.UTF-8"
   LC_MONETARY="en_US.UTF-8"
   LC_MESSAGES="en_US.UTF-8"
   LC_PAPER="en_US.UTF-8"
   LC_NAME="en_US.UTF-8"
   LC_ADDRESS="en_US.UTF-8"
   LC_TELEPHONE="en_US.UTF-8"
   LC_MEASUREMENT="en_US.UTF-8"
   LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_US.UTF-8"
   LC_ALL=

   $ locale date_fmt
   %a %b %e %H:%M:%S %Z %Y

   $ locale -k date_fmt
   date_fmt="%a %b %e %H:%M:%S %Z %Y"

   $ locale -ck date_fmt
   LC_TIME
   date_fmt="%a %b %e %H:%M:%S %Z %Y"
  $ 

Set for "C" in the env output.
> I redirected the /etc/localtime link to EST5EDT and fixed it, the
> thing thought it was in the 3rd worst hell hole in the US, LA, CA.

Please—no.

Cheers,
David.

Re: ntpsec as server questions

[David Wright]

On Mon 04 Dec 2023 at 15:28:03 (-0500), gene heskett wrote:
> On 12/4/23 07:17, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> 
> > > ls -hal /etc/localtime
> > > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 27 Nov  1 18:21 /etc/localtime ->
> > > /usr/share/zoneinfo/EST5EDT
> 
> And using mc to edit that link fixed it, I am now getting the correct
> time from date, thank you a lot.
> 
> But maybe a bug against tzselect s/b filed, IMNSHO it should have
> fixed that. It did not.

If by fixed, you mean it should have changed the time zone of the
machine, you obviously didn't read the man page:

  Note that tzselect will not actually change the timezone for you.
  Use 'dpkg-reconfigure tzdata' to achieve this.

nor the output from the program:

  $ tzselect 
  Please identify a location so that time zone rules can be set correctly.
  Please select a continent, ocean, "coord", or "TZ".
   1) Africa
   2) Americas
   3) Antarctica
   4) Asia
   5) Atlantic Ocean
   6) Australia
   7) Europe
   8) Indian Ocean
   9) Pacific Ocean
  10) coord - I want to use geographical coordinates.
  11) TZ - I want to specify the timezone using the Posix TZ format.
  #? 11
  Please enter the desired value of the TZ environment variable.
  For example, AEST-10 is abbreviated AEST and is 10 hours
  ahead (east) of Greenwich, with no daylight saving time.
  EST5EDT

  The following information has been given:

TZ='EST5EDT'

  Therefore TZ='EST5EDT' will be used.
  Selected time is now:   Mon Dec  4 21:42:03 EST 2023.
  Universal Time is now:  Tue Dec  5 02:42:03 UTC 2023.
  Is the above information OK?
  1) Yes
  2) No
  #? 1

  You can make this change permanent for yourself by appending the line
 

  TZ='EST5EDT'; export TZ
  to the file '.profile' in your home directory; then log out and log in again.
↑↑↑

  Here is that TZ value again, this time on standard output so that you
  can use the /usr/bin/tzselect command in shell scripts:
  EST5EDT
  $ 

(I've assumed you want the old value rather than America/New_York.)

Cheers,
David.

Re: deb12 for amd64 can't start X

[hlyg]

it doesn't look right even in text mode, font used is somewhat different

it's really not ok with 12.2 for amd64 while it's ok with 12.0 for i386

X.Org X Server 1.21.1.7
X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0
Current Operating System: Linux bw 6.1.0-9-686-pae #1 SMP 
PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Debian 6.1.27-1 (2023-05-08) i686
Kernel command line: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-6.1.0-9-686-pae 
root=UUID=2e6d33d6-844d-4d44-911e-329bde0957f1 ro quiet

xorg-server 2:21.1.7-3 (https://www.debian.org/support)
Current version of pixman: 0.42.2
    Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.x.org
    to make sure that you have the latest version.
Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting,
    (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational,
    (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown.
(==) Log file: "/home/wang/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.0.log", Time: Tue Dec  
5 10:13:15 2023

(==) Using system config directory "/usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d"
(II) [KMS] Kernel modesetting enabled.
(II) AIGLX: Suspending AIGLX clients for VT switch
(II) AIGLX: Suspending AIGLX clients for VT switch

Re: Recommended simple PDF viewer to replace Evince

[Gareth Evans]

On Mon 04/12/2023 at 23:12, Tom Browder  wrote:
> I have used Evince as my PDF viewer and printer program for many
> years. It still works, but it has been spitting out error messages for
> a very long time. to wit:
>
> (evince:81435): EvinceView-CRITICAL **: 16:44:57.520: \
> ev_pixbuf_cache_set_selection_list: \
> assertion 'EV_IS_PIXBUF_CACHE (pixbuf_cache)' failed
>
> The help option doesn't shed any light to me, but it does reference
> the website. However, every time I've tried the site throws an error.
> That also has been happening for a LONG time.
>
> I would like to use another program which is similar but has good
> documentation. I don't need a heavy duty program like LibreOffice,
> Just something for viewing and printing.
>

Hi Tom,

I find Atril and Okular to be capable viewers, both with CLI options detailed 
in 

$ man {atril|okular}

I sometimes find Atril less than snappy in displaying (and repainting) 
graphic-intensive PDFs.

> A bonus would be one with documented CLI use with CUPS printers.

What do you want to do that can't be done with (for example)

$ lp file.pdf 

?

I'm not sure what you mean by "CLI use with CUPS printers".

$ man evince

includes

"Print preview options [...]
   --print-settings %s %f
  This sends the full path of the PDF file, f, and the settings of
  the print dialog, s, to evince."

If that was what you meant, I note there seems to be no equivalent documented 
for atril or okular, but I don't quite understand how "%s" is to be 
identified/specified etc.  Some other application's print dialog?

Perhaps you or other(s) can enlighten me.

Thanks,
Gareth

Re: deb12 for amd64 can't start X

[Felix Miata]

hlyg composed on 2023-12-05 07:32 (UTC+0800):

> 00:01.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. 
> [AMD/ATI] Wrestler [Radeon HD 6250]

> it's ok with deb12 for i386

> i think "[KMS] drm report modesetting isn't supported" below offer clue

> X.Org X Server 1.21.1.7
> X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0
> Current Operating System: Linux debian 6.1.0-13-amd64 #1 SMP 
> PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Debian 6.1.55-1 (2023-09-29) x86_64
> Kernel command line: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-6.1.0-13-amd64 
> root=UUID=93a45033-c9c9-4a73-8edf-304576bcc1a9 ro quiet
> xorg-server 2:21.1.7-3 (https://www.debian.org/support)
> Current version of pixman: 0.42.2
>      Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.x.org
>      to make sure that you have the latest version.
> Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting,
>      (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational,
>      (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown.
> (==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Tue Dec  5 07:22:04 2023
> (==) Using system config directory "/usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d"
> (II) [KMS] drm report modesetting isn't supported.
> (EE)
> Fatal server error:
> (EE) no screens found(EE)

This commonly results from some package(s) missing, or that prevents use of
available software, such as malconfiguration or software left behind by having 
had
an NVidia card installed previously, not because your GPU or modesetting are not
supported. [KMS] drm trouble likely means either libdrm-* is missing, or either 
or
both of the two firmware packages listed below are missing.

Do you have all the following installed?:
# dpkg-query -W | egrep 'ati|deon|amdg|mwar|mesa' | sort
firmware-amd-graphics
firmware-linux-free
libdrm-amdgpu1:amd64
libdrm-radeon1:amd64
libegl-mesa0:amd64
libgl1-mesa-dri:amd64
libgl1-mesa-glx:amd64
libglapi-mesa:amd64
libglu1-mesa:amd64
libglx-mesa0:amd64
mesa-utils
mesa-utils-bin:amd64
#
If you do, and there is in interfering malconfiguration, then you should see:
# lsmod | egrep 'vid|deon' | sort
drm   614400  10
gpu_sched,drm_kms_helper,drm_display_helper,drm_buddy,amdgpu,radeon,drm_ttm_helper,ttm
drm_display_helper184320  2 amdgpu,radeon
drm_kms_helper204800  3 drm_display_helper,amdgpu,radeon
drm_ttm_helper 16384  2 amdgpu,radeon
i2c_algo_bit   16384  2 amdgpu,radeon
radeon   1667072  2
ttm94208  3 amdgpu,radeon,drm_ttm_helper
video  65536  3 dell_wmi,amdgpu,radeon
wmi36864  5
video,dell_wmi,wmi_bmof,dell_smbios,dell_wmi_descriptor
#
And thus have a working X session:
# inxi -GSaz
System:
  Kernel: 6.1.0-13-amd64 arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 12.2.0
clocksource: tsc available: hpet,acpi_pm parameters: ro root=/dev/sda12
noresume consoleblank=0 net.ifnames=0 ipv6.disable=1 mitigations=off
  Desktop: Trinity v: R14.1.1 tk: Qt v: 3.5.0 info: kicker wm: Twin v: 3.0
vt: 7 dm: 1: TDM 2: XDM Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 12 (bookworm)
Graphics:
  Device-1: AMD Caicos [Radeon HD 6450/7450/8450 / R5 230 OEM] vendor: Dell
driver: radeon v: kernel alternate: amdgpu arch: TeraScale-2 code: Evergreen
process: TSMC 32-40nm built: 2009-15 pcie: gen: 2 speed: 5 GT/s lanes: 16
ports: active: DP-1,DVI-I-1 empty: none bus-ID: 01:00.0 chip-ID: 1002:6779
class-ID: 0300 temp: 42.5 C
  Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.21.1.7 driver: X: loaded: modesetting
alternate: fbdev,vesa dri: r600 gpu: radeon display-ID: :0 screens: 1
  Screen-1: 0 s-res: 3600x1200 s-dpi: 120 s-size: 762x254mm (30.00x10.00")
s-diag: 803mm (31.62")
  Monitor-1: DP-1 pos: primary,left model: NEC EA243WM serial: 
built: 2011 res: 1920x1200 hz: 60 dpi: 94 gamma: 1.2
size: 519x324mm (20.43x12.76") diag: 612mm (24.1") ratio: 16:10 modes:
max: 1920x1200 min: 640x480
  Monitor-2: DVI-I-1 pos: right model: Dell P2213 serial: 
built: 2012 res: 1680x1050 hz: 60 dpi: 90 gamma: 1.2
size: 473x296mm (18.62x11.65") diag: 558mm (22") ratio: 16:10 modes:
max: 1680x1050 min: 720x400
  API: EGL v: 1.5 hw: drv: amd r600 platforms: device: 0 drv: r600 device: 1
drv: swrast gbm: drv: r600 surfaceless: drv: r600 x11: drv: r600
inactive: wayland
  API: OpenGL v: 4.5 vendor: x.org mesa v: 22.3.6 glx-v: 1.4 es-v: 3.1
direct-render: yes renderer: AMD CAICOS (DRM 2.50.0 / 6.1.0-13-amd64 LLVM
15.0.6) device-ID: 1002:6779 memory: 1000 MiB unified: no
#

The HD6450 is the closest I have to your HD6250, I do have multiple older Radeon
cards that work just fine with Bookworm.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

Re: Print flakes off mailing labels, use a fixative?

[Tom Browder]

On Sun, Dec 3, 2023 at 19:36 David Christensen 
wrote:
...

> Please confirm printer, toner cartridge, and labels are all HP.  If so,
> I would contact HP.


HP printer and toner, Office Depot labels.

I bought so hair spray and will try that.

-Tom

Re: Recommended simple PDF viewer to replace Evince

[Paul M Foster]

On Mon, Dec 04, 2023 at 05:12:28PM -0600, Tom Browder wrote:

> I have used Evince as my PDF viewer and printer program for many
> years. It still works, but it has been spitting out error messages for
> a very long time. to wit:
> 
> (evince:81435): EvinceView-CRITICAL **: 16:44:57.520: \
> ev_pixbuf_cache_set_selection_list: \
> assertion 'EV_IS_PIXBUF_CACHE (pixbuf_cache)' failed
> 
> The help option doesn't shed any light to me, but it does reference
> the website. However, every time I've tried the site throws an error.
> That also has been happening for a LONG time.
> 
> I would like to use another program which is similar but has good
> documentation. I don't need a heavy duty program like LibreOffice,
> Just something for viewing and printing.
> 
> A bonus would be one with documented CLI use with CUPS printers.
> 
> Thanks for any recommendations.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> -Tom
> 

I use xpdf, which is extremely simple and will allow printing. Don't think
it has a CLI interface. However, I would imagine that simply feeding a PDF
to the printer should work for printing. I could be wrong, though.

Paul

-- 
Paul M. Foster
Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com
Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com
Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster

deb12 for amd64 can't start X

[hlyg]

00:01.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. 
[AMD/ATI] Wrestler [Radeon HD 6250]


it's ok with deb12 for i386

i think "[KMS] drm report modesetting isn't supported" below offer clue

X.Org X Server 1.21.1.7
X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0
Current Operating System: Linux debian 6.1.0-13-amd64 #1 SMP 
PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Debian 6.1.55-1 (2023-09-29) x86_64
Kernel command line: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-6.1.0-13-amd64 
root=UUID=93a45033-c9c9-4a73-8edf-304576bcc1a9 ro quiet

xorg-server 2:21.1.7-3 (https://www.debian.org/support)
Current version of pixman: 0.42.2
    Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.x.org
    to make sure that you have the latest version.
Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting,
    (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational,
    (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown.
(==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Tue Dec  5 07:22:04 2023
(==) Using system config directory "/usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d"
(II) [KMS] drm report modesetting isn't supported.
(EE)
Fatal server error:
(EE) no screens found(EE)
(EE)
Please consult the The X.Org Foundation support
     at http://wiki.x.org
 for help.
(EE) Please also check the log file at "/var/log/Xorg.0.log" for 
additional information.

(EE)
(EE) Server terminated with error (1). Closing log file.
xinit: giving up
xinit: unable to connect to X server: Connection refused
xinit: server error

Re: ntpsec as server questions

[jeremy ardley]

On 5/12/23 04:52, Darac Marjal wrote:


Most people know what timezone they're currently in, but the more 
likely know what their nearest city is. Cities rarely change, but 
timezones do. Take the example of Triana in Paul Eggert's original 
email. The city never moved, but the timezone it was it changed dozens 
of times. Its a lot easier for someone to configure Europe/Tirana than 
to have to keep changing timezones. 



The problem with that approach is when reviewing historical events there 
is no easy way to know what the local time was at any specific date


This is precisely the same problem as daylight saving which afflicts a 
large number of cities, though easier to pin the time down.


In my country we have different names for daylight saving time and 
normal time. e.g. Sydney Australia is AEDT at the moment while a few 
months ago it was AEST


If I referred to timezone Australia/Sydney I'd have to go and look up 
the daylight saving dates.


In my hometown of Perth we had daylight saving for a bit but gave up on 
it. So Australia/Perth timezone is fixed at AWST  but at dates I don't 
precisely recall could have been AWDT

Re: Could/should you set Dir::Cache::{pkgcache, srcpkgcache} = ""; if all you are doing is locally downloading dependencies of an installation package?

[David Wright]

On Mon 04 Dec 2023 at 21:24:58 (+), Albretch Mueller wrote:
> On 12/2/23, David Wright  wrote:
> > Obviously I'm trying to replicate what you do.
> ...
> > Presumably you're running more commands than you revealed above?
> 
>  Yes, I am; for each "  Depends: " package I have been using apt-get download

~# mkdir /tmp/acl2 ; cd $_
/tmp/acl2# apt-get download acl2
Get:1 http://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye/main amd64 acl2 amd64 8.3dfsg-2 
[21.5 MB]
Fetched 21.5 MB in 2s (10.1 MB/s)
W: Download is performed unsandboxed as root as file 
'/tmp/acl2/acl2_8.3dfsg-2_amd64.deb' couldn't be accessed by user '_apt'. - 
pkgAcquire::Run (13: Permission denied)
/tmp/acl2# ls -laR . /var/cache/apt
.:
total 21004
drwxr-xr-x  2 root root 4096 Dec  4 17:11 .
drwxrwxrwt 17 root root20480 Dec  4 17:10 ..
-rw-r--r--  1 root root 21481292 Jan 27  2021 acl2_8.3dfsg-2_amd64.deb

/var/cache/apt:
total 69356
drwxr-xr-x  3 root root 4096 Dec  4 15:00 .
drwxr-xr-x 17 root root 4096 May  2  2022 ..
drwxr-xr-x  3 root root57344 Dec  4 09:27 archives
-rw-r--r--  1 root root 35492253 Dec  4 15:00 pkgcache.bin
-rw-r--r--  1 root root 35451043 Dec  4 15:00 srcpkgcache.bin

/var/cache/apt/archives:
total 68
drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 57344 Dec  4 09:27 .
drwxr-xr-x 3 root root  4096 Dec  4 15:00 ..
-rw-r- 1 root root 0 Apr 16  2022 lock
drwx-- 2 _apt root  4096 Dec  4 09:18 partial

/var/cache/apt/archives/partial:
total 64
drwx-- 2 _apt root  4096 Dec  4 09:18 .
drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 57344 Dec  4 09:27 ..
/tmp/acl2# 

Still no extra .bin files.

Cheers,
David.

Recommended simple PDF viewer to replace Evince

[Tom Browder]

I have used Evince as my PDF viewer and printer program for many
years. It still works, but it has been spitting out error messages for
a very long time. to wit:

(evince:81435): EvinceView-CRITICAL **: 16:44:57.520: \
ev_pixbuf_cache_set_selection_list: \
assertion 'EV_IS_PIXBUF_CACHE (pixbuf_cache)' failed

The help option doesn't shed any light to me, but it does reference
the website. However, every time I've tried the site throws an error.
That also has been happening for a LONG time.

I would like to use another program which is similar but has good
documentation. I don't need a heavy duty program like LibreOffice,
Just something for viewing and printing.

A bonus would be one with documented CLI use with CUPS printers.

Thanks for any recommendations.

Best regards,

-Tom

Re: ntpsec as server questions

[Pocket]

On 12/4/23 15:28, gene heskett wrote:

On 12/4/23 07:17, Greg Wooledge wrote:


ls -hal /etc/localtime
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 27 Nov  1 18:21 /etc/localtime ->
/usr/share/zoneinfo/EST5EDT


And using mc to edit that link fixed it, I am now getting the correct 
time from date, thank you a lot.


But maybe a bug against tzselect s/b filed, IMNSHO it should have 
fixed that. It did not.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.



For gene..

#!/usr/bin/dash
#-
#    Title: timezone.sh
#    Date: 2023-12-04
#    Version: 1.0
#    Author: poc...@columbus.rr.com
#-
set -o errexit    # exit if error...insurance ;)
set -o nounset    # exit if variable not initialized
#-
zone=EST5EDT
zoneinfo=/usr/share/zoneinfo
localtime=/etc/localtime
timezone=/etc/timezone
profile=/etc/profile.d
if [ -e "$zoneinfo"/"$zone" ];then
    ln -sf "$zoneinfo"/"$zone" "$localtime"
else
    printf "%s\n" "Invalid zone: $zoneinfo/$zone"
    exit 1
fi
printf "%s\n" "$zone" > "$timezone"
printf "%s\n" "TZ=$zone;export TZ" > "$profile"/timezone.sh
chmod +x "$profile"/timezone.sh
#-

chmod +x timezone.sh

sudo ./timezone.sh


--
It's not easy to be me

Re: ntpsec as server questions

[David Wright]

On Mon 04 Dec 2023 at 15:36:32 (-0500), Greg Wooledge wrote:
> I classify time zone names into three historic eras.  In the oldest era,
> you have zone names like EST5EDT which are composed of three pieces.
> The first piece, EST, is the zone's name when the clock is "normal" (not
> daylight saving or summer time).  The second piece, 5, is the number
> of hours behind GMT the clock is (normally).  The third piece, EDT, is
> the zone's name when daylight saving time is in effect.
> 
> In the second era, zone names look like "US/Eastern".  The piece on the
> right hand side is a component of the piece on the left.  I'm uncertain
> whether the pieces on the left are always country codes, or if there's
> some other arrangement.
> 
> In the modern era, zone names look like "America/Chicago".  The piece on
> the left is a continent (or other large geographic region, e.g. "Pacific"),
> and the piece on the right is a major city, preferably *the* major city,
> which exemplifies the specific time zone in question.
> 
> For you and me, the current era time zone name is "America/New_York".
> This is how the Debian installer sets the localtime symlink, and is
> what we should be using if we have to set it ourselves.
> 
> I personally find "US/Eastern" the easiest to grasp, and I'm sad that
> this pattern fell out of fashion, for whatever reason.  Whenever I tell
> people on the Internet (who may not be Linux users) what time zone I'm
> in, I always go with "US/Eastern".  It's just so *clear*.

Because they don't work historically; for example, say you live in
Wayne Co, KY:

/usr/share/zoneinfo$ for j in America/Kentucky/*; do TZ="$j" date -d 
'@907654321'; done
Tue Oct  6 02:12:01 EDT 1998
Tue Oct  6 01:12:01 CDT 1998
/usr/share/zoneinfo$ for j in America/Kentucky/*; do TZ="$j" date -d 
'@987654321'; done
Thu Apr 19 00:25:21 EDT 2001
Thu Apr 19 00:25:21 EDT 2001
/usr/share/zoneinfo$ 

Cheers,
David.

Re: Isolated Web Co Session crash Firefox-ESR

[jeremy ardley]

On 4/12/23 10:49, Max Nikulin wrote:

On 04/12/2023 09:39, jeremy ardley wrote:

I think I've found a potential culprit using about:processes

https://openai.com 110% CPU


I would try it in chromium. Some sites relies on optimizations 
implemented in its JavaScript engine.


My observation is that Firefox may be CPU hungry due to "loading" 
animations (CSS and others). Curiously it may happen namely when JS is 
disabled since otherwise animated placeholders are replaced by 
dynamically loaded content that is still.


I have also been monitoring global memory use. The last entry below 
is after I closed the openai tab


I have not used atop, but a colleague recommended it. This tool may 
write logs.




I installed atop and moved the openai page to Google Chrome.

Free memory reported by atop hovers around 10G and doesn't seem to vary 
much over the past day.


I put a query into gpt4

Can Chrony serve as LAN's master?

Chrome CPU varied between 35% and 65% for the duration of the query of 
about 15 to 20 seconds. This is surprising as I thought openai GPT was 
implemented as an API call with minimal browser involvement.

Re: ntpsec as server questions

[gene heskett]

On 12/4/23 14:17, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Mon, Dec 04, 2023 at 02:11:51PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:

That leave the localtime error pretty much up to the date command, or is
there something else screwing with this? Where ALL in this chain does
/etc/timezone get used, which is currently set to:
America/New_York


ls -ld /etc/*time*

Please.

.

as reported, its now fixed.
root@mkspi:/usr/share/zoneinfo# ls -ld /etc/*time*
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 27 Dec  4 15:22 /etc/localtime -> 
/usr/share/zoneinfo/EST5EDT

-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 17 Dec  4 11:44 /etc/timezone

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: ntpsec as server questions

[gene heskett]

On 12/4/23 11:39, John Hasler wrote:

Gene writes:

Thats says this machine has it hdware clock on utc.


No.  That says that the system clock (not the hardware clock) is
synchronized to NTP time. The system clock keeps UNIX time: seconds
since the epoch.  It is converted to either UTC or local time as
approporiate for display.  It says nothing about the hardware clock.

Try

 hwclock -l

to find out what timezone the hardwareclock is set to.

If the box is running systemd try

timedatectl


Its ( the printer ) is still buster, so that conversion is incomplete. 
Thanks John.





Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: ntpsec as server questions

[gene heskett]

On 12/4/23 11:34, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Mon, Dec 04, 2023 at 10:55:47AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:

root@mkspi:/etc# chronyc sources
210 Number of sources = 1
MS Name/IP address Stratum Poll Reach LastRx Last sample

===
^* coyote.coyote.den 2   61742-22us[  -25us] +/-
41ms


I've never used chrony, but that looks good at first glance.


root@mkspi:/etc# date
Mon 04 Dec 2023 07:34:59 AM PST
its 10:35 here, still 3 hours off.


The time is *correct*, it's just being reported for a different time
zone than you want.


So here on coyote: date -u:
Mon Dec  4 15:47:44 UTC 2023
but on mkspi: date -u:
Mon 04 Dec 2023 03:47:16 PM UTC


Again, both correct.


WTH?  Where is that false 12 hour offset coming from?


There is no 12 hour offset.  One is being reported in 24-hour time, and
the other in 12-hour time (it says "PM"), because of different locale
definitions.

All you need to do is change your system's default time zone, which on
Debian involves changing the *file* /etc/timezone and the *symlink*
/etc/localtime.  Both are required, because some programs use one and
some use the other.

We've said this in like 3 other emails so far.


True, but I don't recall /etc/localtime until today. I thank you again.


.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: Could/should you set Dir::Cache::{pkgcache, srcpkgcache} = ""; if all you are doing is locally downloading dependencies of an installation package?

[Albretch Mueller]

On 12/2/23, David Wright  wrote:
> Obviously I'm trying to replicate what you do.
...
> Presumably you're running more commands than you revealed above?

 Yes, I am; for each "  Depends: " package I have been using apt-get download

 lbrtchx

Re: ntpsec as server questions

[gene heskett]

On 12/4/23 11:31, Dan Purgert wrote:

On Dec 04, 2023, gene heskett wrote:

[...]
So here on coyote: date -u:
Mon Dec  4 15:47:44 UTC 2023
but on mkspi: date -u:
Mon 04 Dec 2023 03:47:16 PM UTC
[...]

WTH?  Where is that false 12 hour offset coming from?


Coyote seems to use the standard output of 'date' (in 24-hour clock
format).

mkspi /appears/ to be using an approximation of "-R" ("--rfc-email",
as set in RFC5322), though it's missing the comma between "Mon" and "04
Dec", and is set in 12-hour mode.

It's been ages since I've dug into it, but I _BELIEVE_ the LC_TIME
environment variable has an effect here. (Or had, at some point in the
past).

It might well be, Dan but no man page, Set for "C" in the env output.
I redirected the /etc/localtime link to EST5EDT and fixed it, the thing 
thought it was in the 3rd worst hell hole in the US, LA, CA.




Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: ntpsec as server questions

[Darac Marjal]

On 04/12/2023 20:36, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Mon, Dec 04, 2023 at 03:19:33PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:

On 12/4/23 07:17, Greg Wooledge wrote:

ls -hal /etc/localtime

Aha! You found it, but how do I change it?
root@mkspi:/etc# cat timezone
America/New_York
root@mkspi:/etc# ls -hal /etc/localtime
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 39 Jul 25  2022 /etc/localtime ->
/usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Los_Angeles

It's just a symbolic link.  It looks like you have the "modern" style
of zone names, so:

 ln -sf /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/New_York /etc/localtime


use mc to edit the /etc/localtime link?  Surely there is  better way...

I don't know how mc works.  I've never used it.  If that can change the
target of a symlink, similar to running "ln -sf", then you may use it.


The string as the last few
bytes of posixrules looks correct at EST5EDT, and I've got a headache.
there are links to links to links in that midden heap.

I classify time zone names into three historic eras.  In the oldest era,
you have zone names like EST5EDT which are composed of three pieces.
The first piece, EST, is the zone's name when the clock is "normal" (not
daylight saving or summer time).  The second piece, 5, is the number
of hours behind GMT the clock is (normally).  The third piece, EDT, is
the zone's name when daylight saving time is in effect.

In the second era, zone names look like "US/Eastern".  The piece on the
right hand side is a component of the piece on the left.  I'm uncertain
whether the pieces on the left are always country codes, or if there's
some other arrangement.

In the modern era, zone names look like "America/Chicago".  The piece on
the left is a continent (or other large geographic region, e.g. "Pacific"),
and the piece on the right is a major city, preferably *the* major city,
which exemplifies the specific time zone in question.

For you and me, the current era time zone name is "America/New_York".
This is how the Debian installer sets the localtime symlink, and is
what we should be using if we have to set it ourselves.

I personally find "US/Eastern" the easiest to grasp, and I'm sad that
this pattern fell out of fashion, for whatever reason.  Whenever I tell
people on the Internet (who may not be Linux users) what time zone I'm
in, I always go with "US/Eastern".  It's just so *clear*.


According to https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/1993-October/009233.html, 
it was Paul Eggert who proposed this new system. I suspect the subtlety 
between the two systems is: Do you want to specify the timezone, or do 
you want the database to track the timezones for you? Or, to put it 
another way, do you want to specify the time offset, do you want to 
specify the (current) timezone, or do you want the database to track it 
for you?


Most people know what timezone they're currently in, but the more likely 
know what their nearest city is. Cities rarely change, but timezones do. 
Take the example of Triana in Paul Eggert's original email. The city 
never moved, but the timezone it was it changed dozens of times. Its a 
lot easier for someone to configure Europe/Tirana than to have to keep 
changing timezones.


If you happen to live somewhere where the timezone has been stable, 
consider yourself privileged.






OpenPGP_signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: ntpsec as server questions

[Greg Wooledge]

On Mon, Dec 04, 2023 at 03:19:33PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> On 12/4/23 07:17, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > ls -hal /etc/localtime
> 
> Aha! You found it, but how do I change it?
> root@mkspi:/etc# cat timezone
> America/New_York
> root@mkspi:/etc# ls -hal /etc/localtime
> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 39 Jul 25  2022 /etc/localtime ->
> /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Los_Angeles

It's just a symbolic link.  It looks like you have the "modern" style
of zone names, so:

ln -sf /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/New_York /etc/localtime

> use mc to edit the /etc/localtime link?  Surely there is  better way...

I don't know how mc works.  I've never used it.  If that can change the
target of a symlink, similar to running "ln -sf", then you may use it.

> The string as the last few
> bytes of posixrules looks correct at EST5EDT, and I've got a headache.
> there are links to links to links in that midden heap.

I classify time zone names into three historic eras.  In the oldest era,
you have zone names like EST5EDT which are composed of three pieces.
The first piece, EST, is the zone's name when the clock is "normal" (not
daylight saving or summer time).  The second piece, 5, is the number
of hours behind GMT the clock is (normally).  The third piece, EDT, is
the zone's name when daylight saving time is in effect.

In the second era, zone names look like "US/Eastern".  The piece on the
right hand side is a component of the piece on the left.  I'm uncertain
whether the pieces on the left are always country codes, or if there's
some other arrangement.

In the modern era, zone names look like "America/Chicago".  The piece on
the left is a continent (or other large geographic region, e.g. "Pacific"),
and the piece on the right is a major city, preferably *the* major city,
which exemplifies the specific time zone in question.

For you and me, the current era time zone name is "America/New_York".
This is how the Debian installer sets the localtime symlink, and is
what we should be using if we have to set it ourselves.

I personally find "US/Eastern" the easiest to grasp, and I'm sad that
this pattern fell out of fashion, for whatever reason.  Whenever I tell
people on the Internet (who may not be Linux users) what time zone I'm
in, I always go with "US/Eastern".  It's just so *clear*.

Re: ntpsec as server questions

[gene heskett]

On 12/4/23 07:17, Greg Wooledge wrote:


ls -hal /etc/localtime
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 27 Nov  1 18:21 /etc/localtime ->
/usr/share/zoneinfo/EST5EDT


And using mc to edit that link fixed it, I am now getting the correct 
time from date, thank you a lot.


But maybe a bug against tzselect s/b filed, IMNSHO it should have fixed 
that. It did not.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: ntpsec as server questions

[gene heskett]

On 12/4/23 07:17, Greg Wooledge wrote:

ls -hal /etc/localtime


Aha! You found it, but how do I change it?
root@mkspi:/etc# cat timezone
America/New_York
root@mkspi:/etc# ls -hal /etc/localtime
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 39 Jul 25  2022 /etc/localtime -> 
/usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Los_Angeles

use mc to edit the /etc/localtime link?  Surely there is  better way...
chasing that link down its a link to ../posixrules, and this dog is 
chasing its own tail, wtf? Something is AFU but what?  The string as the 
last few bytes of posixrules looks correct at EST5EDT, and I've got a 
headache.  there are links to links to links in that midden heap.


Whoever said there lies insanity is correct/

Thanks Greg

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: Telnet

[Nicolas George]

to...@tuxteam.de (12023-12-04):
> Back then (TM) (must have been 1990ies or so) I knew. And I sometimes still
> miss the "easy interactivity". I haven't investigated whether there is an
> equivalent socat mode (say line-mode with readline editing or something). That
> would be a market niche, wouldn't it?

I am not sure what you are saying: telnet does not have a line mode with
readline editing; anything of that kind you observe is on the server
side. socat, OTOH, has.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George


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Re: Telnet

[tomas]

On Mon, Dec 04, 2023 at 08:04:40PM +0100, Nicolas George wrote:
> to...@tuxteam.de (12023-12-04):
> > Which, in the case of interaction with HTTP (and most others) actually
> > comes in handy. Those explicit \r\n get old pretty fast...
> 
> Just hope you will not need to emit a LATIN SMALL LETTER Y WITH
> DIAERESIS in ISO-8859-1.

Most definitely :-)

> Anyway, the treatment done by telnet is not bad per se, provided we know
> (1) that they happen, (2) if we need them in our use case and (3) how to
> turn them off. I guess most people who use telnet as a general network
> client do not know either (1) nor (2) nor (3).

Back then (TM) (must have been 1990ies or so) I knew. And I sometimes still
miss the "easy interactivity". I haven't investigated whether there is an
equivalent socat mode (say line-mode with readline editing or something). That
would be a market niche, wouldn't it?

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: ntpsec as server questions

[Greg Wooledge]

On Mon, Dec 04, 2023 at 02:11:51PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> That leave the localtime error pretty much up to the date command, or is
> there something else screwing with this? Where ALL in this chain does
> /etc/timezone get used, which is currently set to:
> America/New_York

ls -ld /etc/*time*

Please.

Re: ntpsec as server questions

[gene heskett]

On 12/4/23 07:10, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Mon, Dec 04, 2023 at 06:32:38AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:

On 12/4/23 05:55, Pocket wrote:

ntpq -p

I don't have that on the printer, it is running chrony.


A quick Google search for "chrony equivalent of ntpq" gives me

which says to use "chronyc sources" or "chronyc tracking".



Another snippet of date, it would appear that the clock is set to utc 
correctly.  From /proc/driver/utc:

rtc_time: 16:31:50
rtc_date: 2023-12-04
alrm_time   : 00:00:00
alrm_date   : 1999-12-16
alarm_IRQ   : no
alrm_pending: no
update IRQ enabled  : no
periodic IRQ enabled: no
periodic IRQ frequency  : 1
max user IRQ frequency  : 64
24hr: yes
Which would be nominally correct for utc
That leave the localtime error pretty much up to the date command, or is 
there something else screwing with this? Where ALL in this chain does 
/etc/timezone get used, which is currently set to:

America/New_York

Thank you.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: Bug#1056998: cdrom: Installation media changes after booting it

[Nicholas Geovanis]

On Mon, Dec 4, 2023, 3:30 AM Thomas Schmitt  wrote:

> .
> This seems to indicate that the firmware has a stake in the problem ...
>
> > Both the Thinkpad E14 Gen 5s had the same specifications and type number,
> > differing only in that the one with corruption of the installer has 24GB
> of
> > memory (16GB installed in the slot, 8GB soldered) and the other only has
> 8GB
> > soldered. They both have the same BIOS version, R2AET32W(1.07).
>
> ... but the trigger would have to be very subtle.
>
> > This seems to be really interesting because the corruption only happened
> on
> > certain computers, and it would stay that way on repeated attempts.
>


FWIW check the BIOS L[123] cache settings and consider changing them to
more conservative "slower" values if possible. And you have different RAM
models and configurations, could there be one DIMM in the mix that is
running overclocked?

Have a nice day :)
>
> Thomas
>

Grüß Gott :-)

Re: Telnet

[Nicolas George]

to...@tuxteam.de (12023-12-04):
> Which, in the case of interaction with HTTP (and most others) actually
> comes in handy. Those explicit \r\n get old pretty fast...

Just hope you will not need to emit a LATIN SMALL LETTER Y WITH
DIAERESIS in ISO-8859-1.

Anyway, the treatment done by telnet is not bad per se, provided we know
(1) that they happen, (2) if we need them in our use case and (3) how to
turn them off. I guess most people who use telnet as a general network
client do not know either (1) nor (2) nor (3).

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George


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Re: Look, ma no telnet [was: Telnet]

[tomas]

On Mon, Dec 04, 2023 at 08:01:10PM +0100, Nicolas George wrote:
> to...@tuxteam.de (12023-12-04):
> > These days, even bash can do it:
> 
> Zsh could years before.
> 
> > (alas, it can't do TCP server, which is a pity)
> 
> socat can do TCP server. And UDP client, and UDP server, and TLS/SSL
> client and server, and Unix sockets, and SOCKS, and tun, and…

Don't tell /me/: Back then, captive behind a corporate firewall I used
to wrap my outgoing ssh in a tls tunnel with a 443 endpoint "out there",
courtesy of socat (I didn't want to take chances and let the TLS really
look like TLS :-)

> (And zsh seems to be able to do TCP server.)

That one sounds really nice :-)

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: Look, ma no telnet [was: Telnet]

[Nicolas George]

to...@tuxteam.de (12023-12-04):
> These days, even bash can do it:

Zsh could years before.

> (alas, it can't do TCP server, which is a pity)

socat can do TCP server. And UDP client, and UDP server, and TLS/SSL
client and server, and Unix sockets, and SOCKS, and tun, and…

(And zsh seems to be able to do TCP server.)

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George


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Look, ma no telnet [was: Telnet]

[tomas]

On Mon, Dec 04, 2023 at 09:23:16AM +0100, Nicolas George wrote:
> Charles Curley (12023-12-03):
> > True. None the less, there is at least one perfectly good use for
> > telnet: testing connections to servers.
> 
> Wrong. The telnet client is not entirely transparent, as the telnet
> protocol defines an escape octet to introduce commands.
> 
> If you want to test a network protocol, you should use a really
> transparent client. Traditionally people use netcat (nc), but it handles
> EOF approximatively.
> 
> For that use, I strongly recommend socat.

These days, even bash can do it:

tomas@trotzki:~$ exec 3<>/dev/tcp/localhost/80
tomas@trotzki:~$ echo -ne "GET / HTTP/1.0\r\n\r\n" >&3
tomas@trotzki:~$ cat <&3
HTTP/1.0 200 OK
Content-Type: text/html
ETag: "3243577940"
Last-Modified: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 17:09:28 GMT
Content-Length: 3378
Connection: close
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2023 18:55:37 GMT
Server: lighttpd/1.4.59

http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd";>
http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml";>



These days, even bash can do it:

  tomas@trotzki:~$ exec 3<>/dev/tcp/localhost/80
  tomas@trotzki:~$ echo -ne "GET / HTTP/1.0\r\n\r\n" >&3
  tomas@trotzki:~$ cat <&3
  HTTP/1.0 200 OK
  Content-Type: text/html
  ETag: "3243577940"
  Last-Modified: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 17:09:28 GMT
  Content-Length: 3378
  Connection: close
  Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2023 18:55:37 GMT
  Server: lighttpd/1.4.59

  http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd";>
  http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml";>
  
  [... rest elided ...]

;-)

(alas, it can't do TCP server, which is a pity)

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: ntpsec as server questions

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, Dec 05, 2023 at 12:01:35AM +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:
> On 04/12/2023 23:34, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > > WTH?  Where is that false 12 hour offset coming from?
> > There is no 12 hour offset.  One is being reported in 24-hour time, and
> > the other in 12-hour time (it says "PM"), because of different locale
> > definitions.
> 
> dpkg-reconfigure locales
> 
> Or its equivalent for modified armbian. See /etc/default/locale and
> https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch09.en.html#_customized_display_of_time_and_date

That chapter talks about customizing timestamps in "ls -l" output.

> "9.3.4. Customized display of time and date" and "9.5.5. System and hardware
> time".

Chapter 9.5.5 talks about setting the hardware clock, and recommends
installing an NTP package.

Neither of these chapters tells you how to make the "date" command give
you the output format you want.  At least not directly.  A clever user
might extrapolate from the "ls -l" and "alias" examples that they could
create an alias for "date" which would pass a customized + argument
for a customized output format.  And that's certainly possible, but isn't
something I'd choose to do.  Most importantly because it would only affect
the "date" command typed in an interactive shell; it wouldn't affect
date(1) run by scripts, or anything else which uses the %c format
operator in strftime(3).

If you want to get rid of the 12-hour time format by *default* (%c),
then neither of these chapters actually helps you.  What you want to do
is override the LC_TIME variable.

unicorn:~$ (unset LC_TIME; date)
Mon Dec  4 01:32:29 PM EST 2023
unicorn:~$ LC_TIME=C date
Mon Dec  4 13:32:33 EST 2023

On my system (Debian 12), the default LC_TIME format in the en_US.utf8
locale is that 12-hour thing.  I have "export LC_TIME=C" in my shell's
dot files, so that I get the traditional 24-hour output instead.

This affects all uses of strftime's %c, including bash's builtin printf:

unicorn:~$ printf '%(%c)T\n'
Mon Dec  4 13:34:35 2023
unicorn:~$ LC_TIME=en_US.utf8 printf '%(%c)T\n'
Mon 04 Dec 2023 01:34:42 PM EST

Sadly, you're restricted to the choices offered by your installed locales.
If you can't find an installed locale which has an acceptable LC_TIME
format, then you can try to roll your own.  I went down that road once.
It didn't really work out for me.  Too many finicky details that simply
don't work out in reality.

> I hope, no applications rely on specific locale while parsing time or
> numbers.

I would not care to wager on that.

> echo "$TZ"

This is almost always unset.  Normal users don't tend to set this.  It's
just not part of the public consciousness, for whatever reason.

The *vastly* overwhelming majority of users rely on their system's default
time zone instead.

> https://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manual/html_node/TZ-Variable.html
> but ignore most of its content, use zone identifiers like America/New_York

Or whatever is in your system's /usr/share/zoneinfo/ or wherever your
system's /etc/localtime symlink points.

WE ARE STILL WAITING TO SEE WHERE GENE'S /etc/localtime POINTS.
Hint, hint.

Re: Telnet

[tomas]

On Mon, Dec 04, 2023 at 05:32:20PM +0100, Nicolas George wrote:
> Curt (12023-12-04):
> > Telnet doesn't alter the actual data being transmitted
> 
> Yes it does, read the doc before posting wrong information here.

Which, in the case of interaction with HTTP (and most others) actually
comes in handy. Those explicit \r\n get old pretty fast...

;-)

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: ntpsec as server questions

[Max Nikulin]

On 04/12/2023 23:34, Greg Wooledge wrote:

WTH?  Where is that false 12 hour offset coming from?

There is no 12 hour offset.  One is being reported in 24-hour time, and
the other in 12-hour time (it says "PM"), because of different locale
definitions.


dpkg-reconfigure locales

Or its equivalent for modified armbian. See /etc/default/locale and
https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch09.en.html#_customized_display_of_time_and_date
"9.3.4. Customized display of time and date" and "9.5.5. System and 
hardware time". I hope, no applications rely on specific locale while 
parsing time or numbers.


echo "$TZ"

https://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manual/html_node/TZ-Variable.html
but ignore most of its content, use zone identifiers like America/New_York

This device may have rather outdated tzdata package. The database is 
updated several times a year. Maybe your time zone has not changed since 
that version was released.


I would not be surprised if this box does something fancy like sending a 
request to some GeoIP database and setting timezone accordingly to 
received response.

Re: Telnet

[Nicolas George]

Curt (12023-12-04):
> I think you're buggering yet another fly here.

I think you should read the docs and shut up. I know what I am saying.

-- 
  Nicolas George

Re: ntpsec as server questions

[Tom Furie]

gene heskett  writes:

> Mon Dec  4 15:47:44 UTC 2023
> Mon 04 Dec 2023 03:47:16 PM UTC
> WTH?  Where is that false 12 hour offset coming from?

There's no offset. 15:00 UTC *is* 03:00 PM UTC
^^

Re: Telnet

[Curt]

On 2023-12-04, Nicolas George  wrote:
> Curt (12023-12-04):
>> Telnet doesn't alter the actual data being transmitted
>
> Yes it does, read the doc before posting wrong information here.
>

I think you're buggering yet another fly here.

dovecot auth failure due to panic in libpam_fscrypt

[Max Nikulin]

Does anybody have ideas concerning incompatibility of dovecot IMAP 
server authentication and libpam_fscrypt? It seems Go runtime loaded 
into authentication worker is unable to allocate memory.


To keep local mail archive I use a dovecot instance. This machine does 
not receive or send mail using SMTP, it is purely IMAP server. 
Installing of libpam-fscrypt caused authentication failures:


dovecot[72165]: auth-worker: Error: fatal error: failed to reserve page 
summary memory

dovecot[72165]: auth-worker: Error:
dovecot[72165]: auth-worker: Error: runtime stack:
dovecot[72165]: auth-worker: Error: runtime.throw({0x7f552c418194?, 
0x7f552c1feb10?})
dovecot[72165]: auth-worker: Error: runtime/panic.go:1047 +0x5f 
fp=0x7f552c1feac0 sp=0x7f552c1fea90 pc=0x7f552c28a53f
dovecot[72165]: auth-worker: Error: 
runtime.(*pageAlloc).sysInit(0x7f552c5f6fd0)
dovecot[72165]: auth-worker: Error: 
runtime/mpagealloc_64bit.go:82 +0x195 fp=0x7f552c1feb48 
sp=0x7f552c1feac0 pc=0x7f552c280ef5
dovecot[72165]: auth-worker: Error: 
runtime.(*pageAlloc).init(0x7f552c5f6fd0, 0x7f552c5f6fc0, 0x0?)
dovecot[72165]: auth-worker: Error: runtime/mpagealloc.go:324 
+0x70 fp=0x7f552c1feb70 sp=0x7f552c1feb48 pc=0x7f552c27eb50

dovecot[72165]: auth-worker: Error: runtime.(*mheap).init(0x7f552c5f6fc0)
dovecot[72165]: auth-worker: Error: runtime/mheap.go:729 +0x13f 
fp=0x7f552c1feba8 sp=0x7f552c1feb70 pc=0x7f552c27bf5f

dovecot[72165]: auth-worker: Error: runtime.mallocinit()
dovecot[72165]: auth-worker: Error: runtime/malloc.go:407 +0xb2 
fp=0x7f552c1febd0 sp=0x7f552c1feba8 pc=0x7f552c260e72

dovecot[72165]: auth-worker: Error: runtime.schedinit()
dovecot[72165]: auth-worker: Error: runtime/proc.go:693 +0xab 
fp=0x7f552c1fec30 sp=0x7f552c1febd0 pc=0x7f552c28df0b

dovecot[72165]: auth-worker: Error: runtime.rt0_go()
dovecot[72165]: auth-worker: Error: runtime/asm_amd64.s:345 
+0x120 fp=0x7f552c1fec38 sp=0x7f552c1fec30 pc=0x7f552c2b7c20
dovecot[72165]: auth: Error: auth-worker: Aborted PASSV request for 
mailuser: Worker process died unexpectedly
dovecot[72165]: auth-worker: Fatal: master: service(auth-worker): child 
72211 returned error 2


PID 72165 is dovecot/log.
10-auth.conf:auth_mechanisms = plain

A workaround is to use custom /etc/pam.d/dovecot that does not relies on 
common-auth, etc.


I am realizing that fscrypt with login protector is hardly compatible 
with mail server and home directory of this user is not encrypted. 
libpam-fscrypt is installed for another user that has encrypted home 
directory, but has no mail.


My expectation is that pam_fscrypt.so should be noop in such case and 
certainly should not cause authentication failure. I can not figure out 
if it is pam_fscrypt or dovecot auth-worker failure, e.g. improper 
compile or link options, perhaps some runtime protections intended to 
prevent memory leaks or some sort of attack.

Re: ntpsec as server questions

[John Hasler]

Gene writes:
> Thats says this machine has it hdware clock on utc.

No.  That says that the system clock (not the hardware clock) is
synchronized to NTP time. The system clock keeps UNIX time: seconds
since the epoch.  It is converted to either UTC or local time as
approporiate for display.  It says nothing about the hardware clock.

Try

hwclock -l

to find out what timezone the hardwareclock is set to.

If the box is running systemd try

   timedatectl


-- 
John Hasler 
j...@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: ntpsec as server questions

[Greg Wooledge]

On Mon, Dec 04, 2023 at 10:55:47AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> root@mkspi:/etc# chronyc sources
> 210 Number of sources = 1
> MS Name/IP address Stratum Poll Reach LastRx Last sample
> 
> ===
> ^* coyote.coyote.den 2   61742-22us[  -25us] +/-
> 41ms

I've never used chrony, but that looks good at first glance.

> root@mkspi:/etc# date
> Mon 04 Dec 2023 07:34:59 AM PST
> its 10:35 here, still 3 hours off.

The time is *correct*, it's just being reported for a different time
zone than you want.

> So here on coyote: date -u:
> Mon Dec  4 15:47:44 UTC 2023
> but on mkspi: date -u:
> Mon 04 Dec 2023 03:47:16 PM UTC

Again, both correct.

> WTH?  Where is that false 12 hour offset coming from?

There is no 12 hour offset.  One is being reported in 24-hour time, and
the other in 12-hour time (it says "PM"), because of different locale
definitions.

All you need to do is change your system's default time zone, which on
Debian involves changing the *file* /etc/timezone and the *symlink*
/etc/localtime.  Both are required, because some programs use one and
some use the other.

We've said this in like 3 other emails so far.

Re: Telnet

[Nicolas George]

Curt (12023-12-04):
> Telnet doesn't alter the actual data being transmitted

Yes it does, read the doc before posting wrong information here.

-- 
  Nicolas George

Re: Telnet

[Nicolas George]

Marco Moock (12023-12-04):
> Is that really the case?

Yes.

> Other applications like telnet or vi don't care about it, so I
> assume(d), it is up to the application to handle it.

Applications can decide to change the mode of the tty or catch SIGINT.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George

Re: ntpsec as server questions

[Dan Purgert]

On Dec 04, 2023, gene heskett wrote:
> [...]
> So here on coyote: date -u:
> Mon Dec  4 15:47:44 UTC 2023
> but on mkspi: date -u:
> Mon 04 Dec 2023 03:47:16 PM UTC
> [...]
> 
> WTH?  Where is that false 12 hour offset coming from?

Coyote seems to use the standard output of 'date' (in 24-hour clock
format).  

mkspi /appears/ to be using an approximation of "-R" ("--rfc-email",
as set in RFC5322), though it's missing the comma between "Mon" and "04
Dec", and is set in 12-hour mode.

It's been ages since I've dug into it, but I _BELIEVE_ the LC_TIME
environment variable has an effect here. (Or had, at some point in the
past).

-- 
|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1  E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860


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Re: Telnet

[Marco Moock]

Am 04.12.2023 um 09:28:30 Uhr schrieb Nicolas George:

> Marco Moock (12023-12-04):
> > ncat also uses ^C to kill the process.  
> 
> No, this effect of ^C is part of the operating system.

Is that really the case?

Other applications like telnet or vi don't care about it, so I
assume(d), it is up to the application to handle it.

Re: Telnet

[Curt]

On 2023-12-04, Marco Moock  wrote:
> Am 04.12.2023 um 09:23:16 Uhr schrieb Nicolas George:
>
>> If you want to test a network protocol, you should use a really
>> transparent client. Traditionally people use netcat (nc), but it
>> handles EOF approximatively.
>
> ncat also uses ^C to kill the process.
>
>

Telnet doesn't alter the actual data being transmitted, which is the
denotation of transparent in this context, so I think his point is
ludicrously small, if inexistant.

Re: Telnet

[debian-user]

gene heskett  wrote:
> On 12/4/23 05:22, Anssi Saari wrote:
> > debian-u...@howorth.org.uk writes:
> >   
> >>> I concur, and would add that even on an isolated network one
> >>> should prefer ssh. First, to be in the right habit. Second
> >>> because it will do things that telnet won't, like tunnel X.  
> >>
> >> Ah but will it tunnel wayland?? Enquiring minds want to know :)  
> > 
> > Yes.
> >   
> yes here too.

Thanks guys :)
I was under the impression wayland didn't do networks. I live and learn.

> Cheers, Gene Heskett.

Re: Telnet

[Nicholas Geovanis]

On Mon, Dec 4, 2023, 2:23 AM Nicolas George  wrote:

> Charles Curley (12023-12-03):
> > True. None the less, there is at least one perfectly good use for
> > telnet: testing connections to servers.
>
> Wrong. The telnet client is not entirely transparent, as the telnet
> protocol defines an escape octet to introduce commands.
>

The show-stopper early-internet issue was that the protocol did not hash,
encrypt or secure the exchange of credentials at session start time.

If you want to test a network protocol, you should use a really
> transparent client. Traditionally people use netcat (nc), but it handles
> EOF approximatively.
>

There's a little chunk of perl in the Camel book that does what you want on
any port you want. In the 2nd edition it's pg. 349-351.


For that use, I strongly recommend socat.
>
> Regards,
>
> --
>   Nicolas George
>
>

Re: Telnet

[Darac Marjal]

On 04/12/2023 11:30, gene heskett wrote:

On 12/4/23 05:22, Anssi Saari wrote:

debian-u...@howorth.org.uk writes:


I concur, and would add that even on an isolated network one should
prefer ssh. First, to be in the right habit. Second because it will do
things that telnet won't, like tunnel X.


Ah but will it tunnel wayland?? Enquiring minds want to know :)


Yes.


yes here too.


For those who want to know _how_  people like gene and Anssi manage to 
tunnel wayland applications over SSH, the first useful result I find 
when searching for "tunnel wayland" is:


https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/9/html/getting_started_with_the_gnome_desktop_environment/remotely-accessing-an-individual-application-wayland_getting-started-with-the-gnome-desktop-environment

The tl;dr is "waypipe -c lz4=9 ssh remote-server application-binary".


.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.


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Re: ntpsec as server questions

[gene heskett]

On 12/4/23 07:10, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Mon, Dec 04, 2023 at 06:32:38AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:

On 12/4/23 05:55, Pocket wrote:

ntpq -p

I don't have that on the printer, it is running chrony.


A quick Google search for "chrony equivalent of ntpq" gives me

which says to use "chronyc sources" or "chronyc tracking".



Thank you Greg, both of those initially return a 506 no daemon. so:
root@mkspi:/etc# chronyc sources
506 Cannot talk to daemon
root@mkspi:/etc# chronyc tracking
506 Cannot talk to daemon
root@mkspi:/etc# /etc/init.d/chrony status
● chrony.service - chrony, an NTP client/server
   Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/chrony.service; enabled; vendor 
preset: enabled)

   Active: inactive (dead) since Mon 2023-12-04 03:21:18 PST; 4h 6min ago
 Docs: man:chronyd(8)
   man:chronyc(1)
   man:chrony.conf(5)
  Process: 30074 ExecStart=/usr/sbin/chronyd $DAEMON_OPTS (code=exited, 
status=0/SUCCESS)
  Process: 30078 ExecStartPost=/usr/lib/chrony/chrony-helper 
update-daemon (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS)

 Main PID: 30076 (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS)

Warning: Journal has been rotated since unit was started. Log output is 
incomplete or unavailable.

root@mkspi:/etc# /etc/init.d/chrony restart
[ ok ] Restarting chrony (via systemctl): chrony.service.
root@mkspi:/etc# /etc/init.d/chrony status
● chrony.service - chrony, an NTP client/server
   Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/chrony.service; enabled; vendor 
preset: enabled)

   Active: active (running) since Mon 2023-12-04 07:28:18 PST; 3s ago
 Docs: man:chronyd(8)
   man:chronyc(1)
   man:chrony.conf(5)
  Process: 6913 ExecStart=/usr/sbin/chronyd $DAEMON_OPTS (code=exited, 
status=0/SUCCESS)
  Process: 6917 ExecStartPost=/usr/lib/chrony/chrony-helper 
update-daemon (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS)

 Main PID: 6915 (chronyd)
Tasks: 2 (limit: 998)
   Memory: 692.0K
   CGroup: /system.slice/chrony.service
   ├─6915 /usr/sbin/chronyd -F -1
   └─6916 /usr/sbin/chronyd -F -1

Dec 04 07:28:18 mkspi systemd[1]: Starting chrony, an NTP client/server...
Dec 04 07:28:18 mkspi chronyd[6915]: chronyd version 3.4 starting 
(+CMDMON +NTP +REFCLOCK +RTC +PRIVDROP +SCFILTER +SIGND +…6 -DEBUG)
Dec 04 07:28:18 mkspi chronyd[6915]: Frequency -5.789 +/- 0.498 ppm read 
from /var/lib/chrony/chrony.drift

Dec 04 07:28:18 mkspi chronyd[6915]: Loaded seccomp filter
Dec 04 07:28:18 mkspi systemd[1]: Started chrony, an NTP client/server.
Hint: Some lines were ellipsized, use -l to show in full.
root@mkspi:/etc# date
Mon 04 Dec 2023 07:28:49 AM PST
root@mkspi:/etc# chronyc sources
210 Number of sources = 1
MS Name/IP address Stratum Poll Reach LastRx Last sample 


===
^* coyote.coyote.den 2   61742-22us[  -25us] +/- 
  41ms

root@mkspi:/etc# chronyc tracking
Reference ID: C0A84703 (coyote.coyote.den)
Stratum : 3
Ref time (UTC)  : Mon Dec 04 15:28:24 2023
System time : 0.3 seconds fast of NTP time
Last offset : -0.03382 seconds
RMS offset  : 0.03382 seconds
Frequency   : 5.789 ppm slow
Residual freq   : +4.376 ppm
Skew: 0.498 ppm
Root delay  : 0.026627216 seconds
Root dispersion : 0.027671944 seconds
Update interval : 2.0 seconds
Leap status : Normal
root@mkspi:/etc#

Thats says this machine has it hdware clock on utc.
but date is still on PTC
from mkspi, the printer:
root@mkspi:/etc# date
Mon 04 Dec 2023 07:34:59 AM PST
its 10:35 here, still 3 hours off.

So here on coyote: date -u:
Mon Dec  4 15:47:44 UTC 2023
but on mkspi: date -u:
Mon 04 Dec 2023 03:47:16 PM UTC
chrony has been restarted several times on mkspi, the printer
no errors logged in the tcpdump output.

WTH?  Where is that false 12 hour offset coming from?

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Refund on Marketplace Charge

[Kevin Truong]

Hello,

It looks like I was charged for your Marketplace service: Debian GNU/Linux 9 
(Stretch)

I think this may be some sort of mistake because I believe this was not 
supposed to have a charge. I think I received notification there was no charge 
for this. Can you please cancel this charge and provide me with a refund?

This is my account email: ktruo...@gmail.com

Thank you,
Kevin Truong

Re: time question, as in ntp?

[John Hasler]

Gene writes:
> I've also setup ntpsec as a server on this machine, and have the
> printers chrony synching to this machine but the chrony on the printer
> is stuck in PST, exactly 4 hours behind this machine regardless of the
> setting in /etc/timezone.

Chrony only does UTC.

   chronyc tracking

will tell you what time Chrony thinks it is.
-- 
John Hasler 
j...@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: time question, as in ntp?

[tomas]

On Mon, Dec 04, 2023 at 09:30:14AM -0500, Stefan Monnier wrote:

[...]

> It's serving *the* time :-)

Well put :-)

Cheers
-- 
t


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: time question, as in ntp?

[Stefan Monnier]

> So I put the dhcpd-server on this machine and it worked exact as Dan said it
> would.  Then I enabled ntpsec to serve and thats working to the whole world.
> But the chrony on the printer is stuck in the PST timezone, ignoring the
> contents of /etc/timezone.

In Unix/Linux/Posix, time is counted in "seconds since the epoch" and is
timezone-agnostic.  The timezone is only used when converting to/from
this number of seconds from/to the usual "year/month/day/hour/minutes/...".

> So the printer is 4 hours behind me here on
> US/Eastern or America/NewYork zone, both seem to work correctly here.

"The printer" is probably not 4 hours behind anything.  Presumably it's
just some part of the printer's software which chooses to use PST when
*displaying* time information.

> So the next question is, is ntpsec serving my time, or utc.

It's serving *the* time :-)


Stefan

Re: Firefox, was: Telnet

[Tim Woodall]

On Mon, 4 Dec 2023, Michael Kj?rling wrote:


On 4 Dec 2023 10:29 +, from debianu...@woodall.me.uk (Tim Woodall):

Some years ago I abandoned firefox because there was no way to override
one of its 'I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that' spasms.

It's crazy that they make things like certificate pinning *impossible*
to override.


Firefox deprecated support for HPKP in version 72 in January 2020, in
response to their issue 1412438. 
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1412438



Yes, I know. I don't recall now if this was the last straw that broke
the camel's back but firefox adopted a habit of deciding that things
'shouldn't be done' so leave no way to say 'yes, I know what I'm doing'

IIRC they did something daft with self-signed certificates as well.

chrome based browsers aren't much better but I've yet to be hit by going
from working to not working without an intervening 'are you sure'.

Anyway, I was a netscape/mozilla devotee since the 90s, but other than
those 'never update' VMs I don't use it now. I still use lynx - although
there is less and less that works, the browser itself has never failed
to 'do its best'

Re: systemd-journald log location

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2023-12-04 13:33:33 +0100, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2023-12-04 11:46:23 +, Adam Weremczuk wrote:
> > Is it a good idea to move it from /run/log/journal to e.g. /var/journal-log?
> > 
> > I can't find a suitable option in /etc/systemd/journald.conf

See the journald.conf(5) man page. :-)

> > I recently increased SystemMaxUse and RuntimeMaxUse which quickly filled up
> > all space.
> 
> On my Debian machines, /run/log/journal is empty, and everything
> goes into /var/log/journal. I haven't changed the location.

This may be because I use Storage=persistent.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: ntpsec as server questions

[Pocket]

On 12/4/23 07:17, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Mon, Dec 04, 2023 at 05:55:25AM -0500, Pocket wrote:

On 12/4/23 03:58, gene heskett wrote:

I have this printer getting its time info from this machine's ntpsec but
the chrony in the printer is ignoring /etc/timezone, stuck in PST or 4
hours behind me when comparing the output of "date".

What does /etc/localtime say?

For example on my raspberrypi 4

ls -hal /etc/localtime
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 27 Nov  1 18:21 /etc/localtime ->
/usr/share/zoneinfo/EST5EDT

cat /etc/timezone
America/New_York

According to  the correct
way to set the time zone in Debian is to run "dpkg-reconfigure tzdata"
which will update both /etc/timezone *and* /etc/localtime.  Of course,
since Gene's printer isn't running Debian, we can't accurately tell
him what commands to run.

But at the bare minimum, Gene should check:

 ls -ld /etc/*time*

If it turns out his printer has an /etc/localtime symlink pointing
to the wrong time zone, then re-pointing it should help.


Which is why I posted the above.

Libc uses /etc/localtime so the printer is likely to use that

By doing ls -hal /etc/localtime will point that out

My research has shown that /etc/timezone is a debianism and was slated to be 
depreciated.


dpkg-reconfigure tzdata will not allow me to set the time zone to EST5EDT

--
It's not easy to be me

Re: systemd-journald log location

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2023-12-04 11:46:23 +, Adam Weremczuk wrote:
> Is it a good idea to move it from /run/log/journal to e.g. /var/journal-log?
> 
> I can't find a suitable option in /etc/systemd/journald.conf
> 
> I recently increased SystemMaxUse and RuntimeMaxUse which quickly filled up
> all space.

On my Debian machines, /run/log/journal is empty, and everything
goes into /var/log/journal. I haven't changed the location.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: systemd-journald log location

[Greg Wooledge]

On Mon, Dec 04, 2023 at 11:46:23AM +, Adam Weremczuk wrote:
> Is it a good idea to move it from /run/log/journal to e.g. /var/journal-log?
> 
> I can't find a suitable option in /etc/systemd/journald.conf

If you want to enable persistent journal storage (which by the way
has become the default in more recent Debian releases), please follow
the two steps documented in "man systemd-journald":

mkdir -p /var/log/journal
systemd-tmpfiles --create --prefix /var/log/journal

Or... check whether this already exists and contains data on your
system.

Re: ntpsec as server questions

[Greg Wooledge]

On Mon, Dec 04, 2023 at 05:55:25AM -0500, Pocket wrote:
> On 12/4/23 03:58, gene heskett wrote:
> > I have this printer getting its time info from this machine's ntpsec but
> > the chrony in the printer is ignoring /etc/timezone, stuck in PST or 4
> > hours behind me when comparing the output of "date".
> 
> What does /etc/localtime say?
> 
> For example on my raspberrypi 4
> 
> ls -hal /etc/localtime
> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 27 Nov  1 18:21 /etc/localtime ->
> /usr/share/zoneinfo/EST5EDT
> 
> cat /etc/timezone
> America/New_York

According to  the correct
way to set the time zone in Debian is to run "dpkg-reconfigure tzdata"
which will update both /etc/timezone *and* /etc/localtime.  Of course,
since Gene's printer isn't running Debian, we can't accurately tell
him what commands to run.

But at the bare minimum, Gene should check:

ls -ld /etc/*time*

If it turns out his printer has an /etc/localtime symlink pointing
to the wrong time zone, then re-pointing it should help.

Re: ntpsec as server questions

[Greg Wooledge]

On Mon, Dec 04, 2023 at 06:32:38AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> On 12/4/23 05:55, Pocket wrote:
> > ntpq -p
> I don't have that on the printer, it is running chrony.

A quick Google search for "chrony equivalent of ntpq" gives me

which says to use "chronyc sources" or "chronyc tracking".

systemd-journald log location

[Adam Weremczuk]

Hi all,

Is it a good idea to move it from /run/log/journal to e.g. /var/journal-log?

I can't find a suitable option in /etc/systemd/journald.conf

I recently increased SystemMaxUse and RuntimeMaxUse which quickly filled 
up all space.


I didn't realise that our cloud provider decided to image the VM with 
only 100 MB space assigned to /run !


Not easily changeable. Debian 10.13.

Regards,
Adam

Re: Firefox, was: Telnet

[Michael Kjörling]

On 4 Dec 2023 10:29 +, from debianu...@woodall.me.uk (Tim Woodall):
> Some years ago I abandoned firefox because there was no way to override
> one of its 'I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that' spasms.
> 
> It's crazy that they make things like certificate pinning *impossible*
> to override.

Firefox deprecated support for HPKP in version 72 in January 2020, in
response to their issue 1412438. 
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1412438

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Firefox/Releases/72#security

Looks like it was originally implemented in Firefox 35, which dates
back to January 2015. 
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Firefox/Releases/35#network_security

Apparently present-day versions allow _enabling_ HPKP by adding a
configuration setting which does not exist by default, but finding a
current MDN page even detailing the format of the HPKP HTTP header
appears non-trivial; the Wayback Machine has a copy, but going to the
current page by URL redirects to the one for Expect-CT which _too_ is
deprecated.
https://web.archive.org/web/20211104105929/https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Headers/Public-Key-Pins#browser_compatibility
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_Public_Key_Pinning#Browser_support_and_deprecation

-- 
Michael Kjörling 🔗 https://michael.kjorling.se
“Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

Re: ntpsec as server questions

[tomas]

On Mon, Dec 04, 2023 at 06:29:24AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> On 12/4/23 05:03, Anssi Saari wrote:
> > timedatectl timesync-status
> root@mkspi:/etc# timedatectl timesync-status
> Failed to query server: Connection timed out
> 
> This printer is running chrony, which removes timesyncd.
> 
> ntpsec on this machine is working, even the seconds match and the log shows
> the request being serviced:
> 
> 06:19:05.847872 eno1  In  IP mkspi.coyote.den.48265 > coyote.coyote.den.ntp:
> NTPv4, Client, length 48
> 06:19:05.848004 eno1  Out IP coyote.coyote.den.ntp > mkspi.coyote.den.48265:
> NTPv4, Server, length 48
> 
> but the printer is on PST where I'm on EST, 4 hours difference and the
> printer is ignoring /etc/timezone.  Why? What can override it?

Please, don't mix up local time (a device to show to you, done somewhere
in libc) with kernel time (as traded between NTP and friends). That way
lies madness. Kernel time is *always* number of seconds since some Epoch
(typically 1970-01-01). No EST or whatever nonsense in there. And this
is the terms in which NTPs trade (OK, they have fractions of sec in there,
but that's it). Nothing else.

Unix boxes aren't DOS, haven't ever been. Actually you should know that.

Cheers
-- 
t


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: ntpsec as server questions

[gene heskett]

On 12/4/23 05:55, Pocket wrote:

ntpq -p

I don't have that on the printer, it is running chrony.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: Telnet

[gene heskett]

On 12/4/23 05:22, Anssi Saari wrote:

debian-u...@howorth.org.uk writes:


I concur, and would add that even on an isolated network one should
prefer ssh. First, to be in the right habit. Second because it will do
things that telnet won't, like tunnel X.


Ah but will it tunnel wayland?? Enquiring minds want to know :)


Yes.


yes here too.

.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: ntpsec as server questions

[gene heskett]

On 12/4/23 05:03, Anssi Saari wrote:

timedatectl timesync-status

root@mkspi:/etc# timedatectl timesync-status
Failed to query server: Connection timed out

This printer is running chrony, which removes timesyncd.

ntpsec on this machine is working, even the seconds match and the log 
shows the request being serviced:


06:19:05.847872 eno1  In  IP mkspi.coyote.den.48265 > 
coyote.coyote.den.ntp: NTPv4, Client, length 48
06:19:05.848004 eno1  Out IP coyote.coyote.den.ntp > 
mkspi.coyote.den.48265: NTPv4, Server, length 48


but the printer is on PST where I'm on EST, 4 hours difference and the 
printer is ignoring /etc/timezone.  Why? What can override it?


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: ntpsec as server questions

[Pocket]

On 12/4/23 03:58, gene heskett wrote:

On 12/3/23 20:06, jeremy ardley wrote:


On 4/12/23 08:51, jeremy ardley wrote:
|ntpq -p timedatectl status chronyc sources or if you are hardcore 
sudo tcpdump -i any port 123 | 



Sorry, something screwed up the list

One or more of:

ntpq -p

timedatectl status

chronyc sources

or if you are hardcore

sudo tcpdump -i any port 123


This latter, disclosed that I was serving as a lower accuracy ntp 
server to anybody that came calling, probably serving a hundred or 
more clients in around 4 hours logging. I am surprised that dd-wrt 
lets port 123 thru from the network unhindered.
I have this printer getting its time info from this machine's ntpsec 
but the chrony in the printer is ignoring /etc/timezone, stuck in PST 
or 4 hours behind me when comparing the output of "date".  Except for 
the hour, its dead on to the second.


This printer is running armbian buster, with apt using the debian arm 
repos, which have long been disabled, so I'm stuck editing what it 
has. There are not enough tools to build a tarball either.


That messes with the estimates of time the print will finish. Chrony 
in the printer says its a full blown ISC client, but its ignoring the 
contents of /etc/timezone. Or something else is overriding /etc/timezone.


Does anyone know of an override to that I might check?

Thanks all




What does /etc/localtime say?

For example on my raspberrypi 4

ls -hal /etc/localtime
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 27 Nov  1 18:21 /etc/localtime -> 
/usr/share/zoneinfo/EST5EDT


cat /etc/timezone
America/New_York

--
It's not easy to be me

Re: Telnet

[Tim Woodall]

On Sun, 3 Dec 2023, Greg Wooledge wrote:


On Sun, Dec 03, 2023 at 11:52:51AM -0700, Charles Curley wrote:


True. None the less, there is at least one perfectly good use for
telnet: testing connections to servers.

charles@hawk:~$ telnet hawk
Trying 127.0.1.1...
telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
charles@hawk:~$ telnet hawk 80
Trying 127.0.1.1...
Connected to hawk.localdomain.
Escape character is '^]'.
^]
telnet> quit
Connection closed.
charles@hawk:~$


Yes, there is plenty of use for the telnet *client*.  Nobody disputes this.

The question is whether anyone should be running a telnetd *server*.
On an isolated network, it might be acceptable.  But it's really a bad
habit that should be stomped out aggressively, as machines which are
currently on an isolated network might not remain there forever.




Agree with all of the above. However, the op was connecting to what
looks like a router address. It's possibly hardware that cannot be
updated, only replaced. (and I'm not sure, therefore, if this is a
debian question at all)

I have some (post 2020) motherboards whose ipmi does not work with jvm
post stretch, nor firefox post buster. So I have to keep an old setup
around.

You should never put these sorts of devices on the internet anyway. It
might be *nice* if we didn't have to use old 'insecure' protocols but
it's not *insecure* to do so. The IPMI in question are only accessible
via physical access (so network encryption is hardly helpful) or VPN
(which is kept up to date)

It has frustrated me that the browser writers have refused to
distinguish between rfc1918 (and equivalent ipv6) addresses and
publically routable addresses when it comes to warnings and refusals to
connect.

Some years ago I abandoned firefox because there was no way to override
one of its 'I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that' spasms.

It's crazy that they make things like certificate pinning *impossible*
to override. Another one that bit me - again hardware where the only way
to use https was to have it generate its own self signed certificate
that expired after a year. You can 'work around' but it's *expensive*
the first time you hit it as you end up losing other config. Sure, the
hardware was buggy...

Re: Telnet

[Anssi Saari]

debian-u...@howorth.org.uk writes:

>> I concur, and would add that even on an isolated network one should
>> prefer ssh. First, to be in the right habit. Second because it will do
>> things that telnet won't, like tunnel X.
>
> Ah but will it tunnel wayland?? Enquiring minds want to know :)

Yes.

Re: ntpsec as server questions

[Anssi Saari]

jeremy ardley  writes:

> timedatectl status

I think you mean timedatectl timesync-status since that lists the NTP
server among other things.

Interestingly, looks like my Debian router uses my ISP's NTP server
which it likely knows through DHCP whereas my little Ubuntu-running
Raspberry Pi uses ntp.ubuntu.com.

Re: time question, as in ntp?

[Max Nikulin]

On 04/12/2023 11:38, John Hasler wrote:

Max Nikulin wrote:

 From my point of view, it should be possible to put a file with
mapping of mac addresses to desired IPs and names to his dd-wrt
router. I expect that dnsmasq is running or can be installed
there. Dnsmasq as a DHCP server on the router should be better than
maintaining hosts files on each machine.


dnsmasq will get the hostnames from the machines and put them in its
dns.  There is really no need to manually enter any MAC addresses or IPs
anywhere.


IP addresses may be added to some scripts or config files already. My 
point is that dnsmasq allows to fix IP addresses obtained by clients 
through DHCP. It is first step to convince that a network managed using 
a DHCP server is not unstable.



I suspect that had the machine been plugged into a network equipped with
a properly configured DHCP server it would just work.


Sure, but if DHCP server is not running on the router then it will be 
more tricky to debug next issue. Answering to questions people make 
enough assumptions and in home networks usually routers play this role.

Re: ntpsec as server questions

[gene heskett]

On 12/4/23 00:09, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

On Sun, Dec 03, 2023 at 07:42:42PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:

Greetings all;

in the docs (thanks for hiding them & doing away with manpages) it says:
---
To make the DHCP server in the Debian package isc-dhcp-server send NTP
server
information, add a line like the following at an appropriate place:

 option ntp-servers ntp1.foo.bar, ntp2.foo.bar;
--
now I assume the foo.bar is to be replaced by something unique [...]


The whole thing is supposed to be a resolvable host name for your client,
i.e. either something your client can look up in the DNS, something in
its /etc/hosts, possibly even a naked IP address will do. It's quite
likely the request goes through the resolver (which, BTW, has a man page).

The naked ipv4 address works, I've not added all machines to the 
printers hosts file, yet...



Cheers


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: time question, as in ntp?

[gene heskett]

On 12/3/23 22:05, Max Nikulin wrote:

On 02/12/2023 23:39, John Hasler wrote:

Max Nikulin wrote:

As to a GPS receiver, it should be doable and 169.254.x.y addresses
will not be an issue any more. Be careful with cables when connecting
it however: https://www.wired.com/2012/02/neutrinos-faulty-cable/


CNC machines don't need accurate time.  They need precise internal
synchronization but that isn't related to the system clocks.  The
default NTP configuration in most Linux distributions will take care of
the system clocks if they have access to the Internet.


I was kidding. However "access to the Internet" is the real trouble in 
this particular case. It seems, the vendor of the 3d printer believes 
that users must connect the device to a network having a DHCP server. 
ifupdown is definitely broken in armbian, perhaps armbian way to setup 
network is broken on this device, but Gene is not going to debug it. His 
stance that it is NetworkManager that breaks his network.


1. I'll retract that, while there seem to be networkmanager leftovers 
here and there, there is no nm present on the printer NOW that I can 
find.  And I haven't removed it.


2. I have installed the ISC dhcpd-server on this machine, its working as 
expected, the printer is now inside my subnet of the 192.168.71 block.


3. I've also setup ntpsec as a server on this machine, and have the 
printers chrony synching to this machine but the chrony on the printer 
is stuck in PST, exactly 4 hours behind this machine regardless of the 
setting in /etc/timezone.


In addition, he is strongly against DHCP believing that it will make his 
network unstable.


See above, its installed and working, I've even done a small print job 
to prove it works.


 From my point of view, it should be possible to put a file with mapping 
of mac addresses to desired IPs and names to his dd-wrt router. I expect 
that dnsmasq is running or can be installed there. Dnsmasq as a DHCP 
server on the router should be better than maintaining hosts files on 
each machine.


Two reasons, the failure of those 2 seacraates within hours of each a 
year ago other destroyed all records of passwd's for it, and since the 
rot pw was 33 chars of random numbers, I'd have to do a factory reset to 
a broken dd-wrt (It can't do nat) and reinstall a new dd-wrt.  Its 
working so I won't muck with it.


So I put the dhcpd-server on this machine and it worked exact as Dan 
said it would.  Then I enabled ntpsec to serve and thats working to the 
whole world.  But the chrony on the printer is stuck in the PST 
timezone, ignoring the contents of /etc/timezone.  So the printer is 4 
hours behind me here on US/Eastern or America/NewYork zone, both seem to 
work correctly here.


So the next question is, is ntpsec serving my time, or utc. This hdware 
clock is supposedly set to UTC, but what is ntpsec serving? It s/b 
serving UTC IMO. But I'm in the dark here, haven't had to fool with this 
in the last 24 years.


The current state is that the 3d printer has only a 169.254.x.y 
link-local address configured as a fallback.


Which is now fixed.

Thanks all.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: ntpsec as server questions

[gene heskett]

On 12/3/23 20:06, jeremy ardley wrote:


On 4/12/23 08:51, jeremy ardley wrote:
|ntpq -p timedatectl status chronyc sources or if you are hardcore 
sudo tcpdump -i any port 123 | 



Sorry, something screwed up the list

One or more of:

ntpq -p

timedatectl status

chronyc sources

or if you are hardcore

sudo tcpdump -i any port 123


This latter, disclosed that I was serving as a lower accuracy ntp server 
to anybody that came calling, probably serving a hundred or more clients 
in around 4 hours logging. I am surprised that dd-wrt lets port 123 thru 
from the network unhindered.
I have this printer getting its time info from this machine's ntpsec but 
the chrony in the printer is ignoring /etc/timezone, stuck in PST or 4 
hours behind me when comparing the output of "date".  Except for the 
hour, its dead on to the second.


This printer is running armbian buster, with apt using the debian arm 
repos, which have long been disabled, so I'm stuck editing what it has. 
There are not enough tools to build a tarball either.


That messes with the estimates of time the print will finish. Chrony in 
the printer says its a full blown ISC client, but its ignoring the 
contents of /etc/timezone. Or something else is overriding /etc/timezone.


Does anyone know of an override to that I might check?

Thanks all


.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: Telnet

[Nicolas George]

Marco Moock (12023-12-04):
> ncat also uses ^C to kill the process.

No, this effect of ^C is part of the operating system.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George

Re: Telnet

[Marco Moock]

Am 04.12.2023 um 09:23:16 Uhr schrieb Nicolas George:

> If you want to test a network protocol, you should use a really
> transparent client. Traditionally people use netcat (nc), but it
> handles EOF approximatively.

ncat also uses ^C to kill the process.

Re: Telnet

[Nicolas George]

Charles Curley (12023-12-03):
> True. None the less, there is at least one perfectly good use for
> telnet: testing connections to servers.

Wrong. The telnet client is not entirely transparent, as the telnet
protocol defines an escape octet to introduce commands.

If you want to test a network protocol, you should use a really
transparent client. Traditionally people use netcat (nc), but it handles
EOF approximatively.

For that use, I strongly recommend socat.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George