Re: Re: Modem Net Access.

[David Palmer]

O.K., Kent and Celejar.

Sorry for the delay, but I've got to shutdown, remove the drive, put another 
in, reboot, install gpmand then hit the logs to find any discrepancies 
anywhere.

Type up what I find, then do the procedure in reverse.

Anyway, here I am:

Nothing I can spot in syslog.
The kernal picks up the one and only serial port on boot -I'm running a 
6400+ on an Asus M3A, so it's only got the one serial port and just one IDE 
channel.
And everything looks alright all the way through the ppp connect procedure 
also.


ifconfig -a?
I did before, and after connect, to see what holes there might be in the 
bucket.


Juggernaut:/home/weaver# ifconfig -a
Io Link encap:Local Loopback
   inet addr: 127.0.0.1   Mask:255.0.0.0
   inet6 addr:  ::1/128 Scope:Host
   UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:16436  Metric:1
   RX packets:258 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
   TX packets: 258 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
   collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
   RX bytes:37617  (36.7 KiB)   TX bytes:37617  (36.7 KiB)

sit0   Link encap:IPv6-in-IPv4
   NOARP  MTU:1480  Metric:1
   RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
   TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
   collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
   RX bytes:0  (0.0 b)   TX bytes:0  (0.0 b)

Juggernaut:/home/weaver#pon
Juggernaut:/home/weaver#ifconfig -a
Juggernaut:/home/weaver#


So, the connection is there the apps just can't access it.

I think we're back to config somewhere.
Regards and thanks for any further suggestions,

David. 



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Re: howto post configure a debian installation

[David Palmer]

On Thu, 2008-09-18 at 17:12 +0530, Santanu Chatterjee wrote:


> I know that there is a command to setup certain aspects of a debian
> installation _after_ the installation. I just cannot remember the name of
> that command right now. Please help.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
I did use it a long time ago.
Something like "baseconfig?"
Regards,

David Palmer.


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Re: Colours in VIM-AbiWord

[David Palmer]

Paul Cartwright wrote:

On Mon February 4 2008, Ron Johnson wrote:
  

AbiWord is much lighter & smaller than OOo.


I saw AbiWord when I installed ... another distro ( Pu..y ...)
but I never used it. is abiword just a word processor, as opposed to a full 
suite, like OO ??
does it do .DOC conversion? smaller & lighter normally means less features. 
But I really don't use THAT many features of OO..
  


Abiword is a word processor and very competent.
It will take in Word Docs and process modify them, but I find that 
saving everything as RTF means that anybody can open them no matter what 
processor they use.
Gnumeric is all you need for spreadsheeting - install all the optional 
extras, plugins, doc files, etc., and the combination of both of them 
are all that a small office requires for the majority of work.


If you need something to handle presentation work, install Scribus.

I also use Xfig to create process control, haccp charts, etc.

Everything loads quickly and no functionality is lost, at least, not any 
that 98% of the population would require.

Regards,

David.


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Re: Buying debian compatible laptop.

[David Palmer]

Bob wrote:


I'm looking for a laptop with a dual core AMD64 CPU, AMD GPU with 
dedicated (non-shared) GRAM, built in webcam, user changeable 
Harddrive & battery, high RAM capacity, large high quality screen, a 
nice keyboard and good linux support for all the power saving, 
suspends, wifi etc


I'd also like it to have DVI, SPDIF, USB2, FireWire, jumbo frame GbE, 
Infrared and eSATA ports

Has anyone seen one?



At present, I'm looking (but only looking), at the M59 SLI here:

http://www.pioneercomputers.com.au/products/products.asp?c1=3&c2=15

Regards,

David Palmer.


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Re: exim4 localhost prefix problem

[David Palmer]

Jude DaShiell wrote:
I got the following error messageError sending: No such host as 
localhostoutgoing.verizon.net]



It looks like strange terminology to me, but you may need a 
fullstop/period between localhost and outgoing.

As in: localhost.outgoing.verizon.net
Regards,

David Palmer.


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Re: Modem in Debian

[David Palmer]

A. F. Cano wrote:

On Sun, Feb 03, 2008 at 04:14:16PM -0500, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
  

On Sun, Feb 03, 2008 at 08:16:57PM +, Pantor wrote:


there is a modem plugged to PCI slot and no idea what to do with it.
Any suggestions, advices, please.
  

Use it to dialup into the internet like real people :)



Or, like I do, assuming it's a voice modem, configure it as an
answering machine.  I use mgetty/vgetty.  You can even run
asterisk and have a voice mail system like businesses do.

In my case, when I get an answering machine message, it gets encoded
and sent to my local mailbox.  I read it with mutt and hear the
message like any multi-media email message.  Then I delete it or
save it like any email message.
  

Or provide yourself with a fax facility.
Regards,

David Palmer.


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Re: low-MHz server

[David Palmer]

On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 14:31:34 +1000
Julian De Marchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> 
> > Any suggestions for good old boxes like this that will run modern
> > Debian or OpenBSD and be reasonably reliable?

I generally hang around the rubbish bins of the local primary schools
at budget time.
Last time I scored two 486s and three pentium 1s for nothing.
Good for firewalls and mail servers, or just mucking around.
Regards,

David Palmer.


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Re: Trying to get on the web with wvdial.

[David Palmer]

On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 21:52:29 -0600
"Russell L. Harris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> * Geosand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [080128 20:49]:
> ... (RE wvdial) ...
> > Because it does all the config for you.
> > I used it for the first time the other day - installing a modem for fax.
> > It did it all in the install procedure, detected the serial port the  
> > modem was on, installed the strings, ready to go.
> 
> If your only need for a POTS ("plain old telephone service") modem is
> to send and receive faxes, wvdial is not required.  

No, but I need the modem to update/upgrade also.
Regards,

David Palmer.


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Re: Trying to get on the web with wvdial.

[David Palmer]

On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:45:08 -0600
John Hasler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> David Palmer writes:
> > [Wvdial] is handy for a newbie.
> 
> Only when it works.

Oh, I can remember when it didn't, don't worry.
But that was a couple of years back.
I thought I'd give it another try and lo and behold, it performed the way it 
was supposed to two years ago.
Regards,

David Palmer


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Re: random mouse hangs

[David Palmer]

On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 10:20:37 -0500
Tom Vier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I'm running etch on amd64. The last few weeks, my mouse would stop
> responding for a few seconds. I switched to another mouse - same thing. Now
> i have to unplug (it's usb) and plug it back in to get the pointer to move
> again. I've tried 3 different usb ports. Keyboard works fine the whole time.
> It seems like a software problem, but it's not happening on my home machine
> (also running etch on amd64).

It looks like a config problem, which happens with usb mice.
Are there any other aspects?
Is gpm involved?

Two ways to fix it:

Adjust config of xserver-xorg;
Install gpm, which isn't a bad idea anyway, and the config of that gives 
comprehensive treatment of usb mice.
Regards,


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Re: upgrading X in sid

[David Palmer]

On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 13:05:06 -0800
"Kelly Clowers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Jan 28, 2008 8:06 AM, Kelly Clowers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Jan 28, 2008 6:29 AM, charlie derr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > I have a laptop with a native resolution of 1900x1200 which has been 
> > > working fine for the past year an a half.
> > >
> > > This weekend I upgraded (which included both X and kde) in unstable/sid 
> > > and now I find that my X session is being rendered
> > > (according to xvidtune) at 1680x1050
> > >
> > > What's odd is that the relevant section from  /etc/X11/xorg.conf (pasted 
> > > below) wouldn't seem to allow that.
> > >
> > > Anyone know what's going on?   The only explanation that makes sense to 
> > > me is that Xorg now directly queries the graphics
> > > subsystem and essentially ignores what's been set in xorg.conf.  I'm 
> > > definitely interested in knowing how to get back the full
> > > 1900x1200 resolution.
> > >
> >
> > Here is what part of my xorg.conf looks like:
> >
> > Section "Monitor"
> > Identifier  "G90f-2"
> > Option  "DPMS"
> > Option  "PreferredMode" "1600x1200"
> > EndSection
> >
> > Section "Screen"
> > Identifier  "Default Screen"
> > Device  "ATI RV350 AS [Radeon 9550]"
> > Monitor "G90f-2"
> > DefaultDepth24
> > SubSection "Display"
> > #Modes  "1600x1200" "1280x1024" "1024x768" "800x600"

I'd say this is the problem.
It looks like a bug, so should be reported, but if you remove the Hash # your 
card should pick up on the first option.
It's obvious that's what you've selected, but transfer to config hasn't been 
clean, and xserver-xorg has opted for a 'safe' optimal.
Regards,


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Re: Brief question as to the Linux kernel in use in the Stable version of Etch

[David Palmer]

On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 08:41:43 +0100
Sven Joachim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On 2008-01-27 08:23 +0100, David Palmer wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 00:48:52 -0500
> > dick thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> >> My ethernet adapter is an ATTANSIC Gigabyte L1 (also released since the 
> >> takeover of ATTANSIC by ATHEROS as the ATHEROS Gigabyte L1.  From what I 
> >> have been able to find out the earliest kernel supporting this adapter 
> >> is the 2.6.22.
> >
> > Then you need to upgrade to the 'lenny' distribution.
> > Or depending on what you are running, even SID.
> > That's my standard desktop now.
> 
> Please stop giving such clueless and *totally wrong* advice.

No it isn't.

I find sid a much better option than testing.
The fixes, those that are required, arrive a lot more quickly.

  It is
> perfectly possible (and in fact very easy) to just install a new kernel
> and keep the rest of the system at the stable version.

Why would he want to do that?

Unless I severely misjudge the situation, he's looking for a desktop.
As a desktop, stable answers to the same description that the OP used to 
describe the kernel - out dated.
Debian stable is known for that.

"clueless and *totally wrong* advice" looks like a classic example of Freudian 
transference from my perception.
Regards,

David Palmer.


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Re: Brief question as to the Linux kernel in use in the Stable version of Etch

[David Palmer]

On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 00:48:52 -0500
dick thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I have looked all through the info and the best I can find is that Etch 
> uses version 2.6.18 of the Linux kernel.

Right!
Are you running a mission critical server?
  
> 
> My ethernet adapter is an ATTANSIC Gigabyte L1 (also released since the 
> takeover of ATTANSIC by ATHEROS as the ATHEROS Gigabyte L1.  From what I 
> have been able to find out the earliest kernel supporting this adapter 
> is the 2.6.22.

Then you need to upgrade to the 'lenny' distribution.
Or depending on what you are running, even SID.
That's my standard desktop now.

  That is the reason I am asking as I would like to take a 
> good look at Debian but if I can't connect to the ethernet with it then 
> it is useless to me.  

Stable is excellent for running servers and for the kind of staid
personality that still has tea and scones with his maiden aunts every
Sunday afternoon at the age of forty.
 
And he makes the scones.

Live a little

> Thanks in advance.

No worries.
Regards,

David Palmer.


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Creative Commons Metamorphosis

[David Palmer]

There's a new style of licence happening at Creative Commons.
It is typified by the policy of attempting to meld closed and open 
source, particularly in relation to software.
Is this where this project was heading all along?
This same proposition is one that has been previously touted by such 
entities as Microsoft.

http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/4368
Since when have the products of open source been unavailable to the 
commercial sphere anyway?
Ventures of this nature have the potential to cloud the middle ground, 
and compromise the legal status of standards such as the GPL. This may 
well be the strategy involved.
Regards,

David.
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[Fwd: New Bitstream technology comes to Linux and Desktop/LX]

[David Palmer]

This is a newsletter from the Lycoris Linux commercial distribution,
concerning something new in font/font management.
I'm not aware of the licencing details (I would be very surprised if it
could be classified as 'free'). Point the first.
Point the second: There seems to be an ever accelerating interest in the
proprietary section toward incorporating free/open source software into
"hybrid" environments. This has a double implication for me - (1)
Proprietary vendors wanting to incorporate FOSS to extend and enhance
marketability of their product/s. (2) The possibility of proprietary
interests incorporating FOSS into their productline, and then by way of
this assuming a legal posture in the possession aspect.
Point the third: Lycoris is based on a Caldera base, and I'm not sure
how this would stand with the SCO situation.
But it looks good, as all dangerous toys do, so I thought that it might
be of interest anyway.
Regards,

David.



-Forwarded Message-
From: Lycoris Newsletters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: New Bitstream technology comes to Linux and Desktop/LX
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 03:06:34 -0700



New Font Technology Comes to Linux - only in Desktop/LX 1.4




 Dear Lycoris Customer,

We normally don't send our press releases out to our userbase. We're
going to make an exception this one time. This is such groundbreaking
news in Linux that we just felt we had to share it with you. We have
teamed up with Bitstream to bring new font rendering technology to
Linux. We are replacing Freetype in Desktop/LX 1.4 with a new technology
called btX2. btX2 is a font rendering system including the Font Fusion
rendering engine that is the fastest in the world, and includes
unequaled hinting technology. What does this mean for our users? Quite
simply the fastest and best-looking font experience available in Linux.

If this were something that other companies offered, you'd only see our
usual set of announcements. However, this is the very first time
something like this has been done in the Linux desktop arena, and we
felt you'd want to know about it. Desktop/LX 1.4 is going to be setting
the pace yet once again. Clearer fonts, and faster page & window
rendering with btX2 will be just one of the great featuresets!
Desktop/LX is the first company to use this great technology on the
Linux desktop.

Our press release about this is below. You can see for yourself why
we're proud to call Bitstream a preferred technology partner. You can
also see our Sneak Peek series of webpages, announcing new features and
things you'll be seeing in Desktop/LX 1.4. Technical specifications,
project capabilities and more are below.

Best regards,
The Lycoris Team




Lycoris Licenses btX2 Font Engine from Bitstream

Leader in Linux desktop consumer market to bring high-quality font
rendering and character hinting to Linux

MAPLE VALLEY, WA and CAMBRIDGE, MA - June 10, 2004 - Lycoris and
Bitstream Inc. (NASDAQ: BITS) announced today that Lycoris will license
the btX2 font rendering engine and a core set of 13 delta-hinted screen
fonts from Bitstream for its entire product line, including Desktop/LX
Personal, Desktop/LX InterConnect, and Desktop/LX Tablet Edition,
replacing the current Freetype system.

“Lycoris commitment to desktop usability extends even to the font
rendering system,” said Joseph Cheek, CEO of Lycoris. “The inclusion of
the additional set of core fonts, as well as the btX2 font engine, gives
our users enhanced viewing capabilities. We are excited to partner with
industry powerhouse Bitstream to ensure that our users experiences with
our products are not just enjoyable, but exceptional.”

“btX2 gives Linux developers a complete solution in one license
agreement from one vendor,” said Anna Chagnon, President and CEO of
Bitstream. “Were trying to make it easier for developers to bring a
great look-and-feel to the Linux desktop. Users have been spoiled by
what theyve seen on other desktop systems, and are demanding smooth,
clear text that is easy to read. Now they can get this solution from
Lycoris. Its a pleasure working with the leader in the Linux desktop
consumer market.”

“The engineering team at Lycoris has been outstanding,” stated Shawn
Flynn, Senior Software Engineer of Bitstream. “We were able to work
together on issues surrounding btX2, and solve them immediately. Our
engineering team made certain that Lycoris was able to take advantage of
btX2s support for native TrueType hinting and anti-aliasing, as these
were critical factors in bringing readability to Desktop/LX.”

About btX2

Key Features
  * Provides high-quality text rendering, fine-tuned for the output
device
  * Scales characters on the fly
  * Renders native hints, which retain distinguishing character
features
  * Smooths jagged character edges using anti-aliasing technology
  * Supports multilingual fonts, including two-byte character sets
  * Supports Unicode and native encodings

Cor

Re: Booting w/ dual CPUs hangs

[David Palmer.]

On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 03:37:00 -0600
"Jeffrey L. Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Quoting David Palmer. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > You could also put a couple of Athlon 2000s on that board. It was
> > actually made with AMD in mind, specifically MP processors, but in
> > actual fact there is very little difference between the Athlon and
> > the MP. The Athlon has a config turned off, but if you know what you
> > are doing, apparently you can switch that back on too, if you need
> > it. That would really make that board hum.
> > Regards,
> > 
> > David.
> > 
> > 
> 
> The MB is a Tyan Thunder 2 S1696D
> (http://www17.tomshardware.com/motherboard/19971028/440lx-09.html) for
> Pentium IIs from Fall 1997.  My CPUs are 300MHz.  I seriously doubt it
> will run Athlons, especially at 1.7GHz.  But I'm willing to be
> convinced.
> 
> Jeffrey
> 
Sorry.
Talking through a hole in my head.
I didn't even see the thunder, and was referring to the tiger.
Apologies.
Regards,

David.


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Re: Booting w/ dual CPUs hangs

[David Palmer.]

On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 22:00:08 -0600
"Jeffrey L. Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Quoting Greg Madden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > Hash: SHA1
> > 
> > On Saturday 27 December 2003 06:36 pm, Greg Madden wrote:
> > > On Saturday 27 December 2003 02:28 pm, Jeffrey L. Taylor wrote:
> > > > I have a box with a Tyan Thunder dual CPU MB.  The two CPUs I
> > > > have are both 300MHz Pentium IIs.  But one is a Deschutes step 2
> > > > and the other a Klamath step 4.  Both work when they are the
> > > > only CPU, but booting with both installed hangs just after the
> > > > NRG is initialized and "Recovering nvi editor sessions".  This
> > > > is when init starts. Do I need to get matching CPUs?  Or is
> > > > there something else I need to do. The kernel is stock
> > > > 2.4.18-1-686-smp from debian.org.
> > > >
> > > > TIA,
> > > >   Jeffrey
> > >
> > > http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/19981215/sl2w8-01.html
> > 
> >  Sorry about the brevity, I think the cpu's need to be the same or
> >  at 
> > least the same core to do dual. Some docs mention matching cpu's 
> > (stepping) but my somewhat limited experience indicates the same
> > core will do it. 
> > - -- 
> > Greg Madden
> 
> Thank you for both e-mails.  The Deschutes and Klamath core look very
> different.  After reading the Toms Hardware article, I am not
> surprised that running dual doesn't work.  I am pleasantly surprised
> that both CPUs work in UP mode.  It also looks like I am better off
> running the Deschutes.  Should run cooler, and possibly give better
> performance.
> 
You could also put a couple of Athlon 2000s on that board. It was
actually made with AMD in mind, specifically MP processors, but in
actual fact there is very little difference between the Athlon and the
MP. The Athlon has a config turned off, but if you know what you are
doing, apparently you can switch that back on too, if you need it.
That would really make that board hum.
Regards,

David.


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Re: WAS "A good book on C programming", now an APPOLOGY

[David Palmer.]

On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 17:45:15 -0600
Alex Malinovich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Sat, 2003-12-27 at 15:43, Gavin Henry wrote:
> --snip--
> > What is Fedora then?
> --snip--
> 
> Fedora is for people who don't know any better. Those who do know
> better, of course, use Debian. :)
> 
> And not to imply that some frequenters of other GNU/Linux distro lists
> are arrogant assholes of course (though they are :), anyone who flames
> you for asking about "this is not a GNU/Linux list" should be shot. I
> honestly don't believe that you'd ever get that sort of a response on
> this list. In my 2 years on this list, I've seen some of the nicest,
> kindest, and most helpful people anywhere. Unfortunately, in the world
> of GNU/Linux, this seems to be the exception, and not the rule. (And
> I'm sure RMS would be grinning ear-to-ear if he saw all these
> references to GNU/Linux instead of just plain old Linux. :)
> 
> > Again, sorry to waste everyones time, but you have all helped me
> > out.
> 
> No need to apologize to us. I don't want to speak for the whole list,
> but I found the thread quite useful actually. :)
> 
So did I.
After Python or/and Ruby, and then maybe lisp for something different,
I'm looking at C++ myself.
I've now got a 'Programming'mail folder full of book references, with
the odd ISBN even.
Thanks for asking the question.
Regards,

David. 


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Re: debian on my athlon?

[David Palmer.]

On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 13:01:20 -0600
Forest Fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I just got a new laptop for x-mas that runs on an AMD Athlon XP-M
> processor.  It's a new processor designed specifically to minimize
> energy use for laptops.  I was hoping to run Debian GNU/Linux on my
> laptop, but the official website indicates that the latest release is
> not built for the Athlon architecture.  Nonetheless, there are other
> webpages claiming to have "athlon builders."  I'm a newbie, and it's
> not clear to me what an "Athlon Builder" really is.  Does this mean
> that if I download the Athlon Builder I can run Debian on my system or
> is this processor simply not supported by Debian?  Finally, if Athlon
> processors aren't supported by Debian, does anyone know another
> GNU/Linux OS that I could run on my system.  Thanks a bunch,
> 
> Forest
> 
Hello Forest,

There's no problem with running Debian on an Athlon CPU. That's what I
and a lot of other people are doing, and no problems are being experienced.
The architecture in the documentation specifies Intel, but for newbies
like us, this can be misleading.

What I should seriously suggest you do is go here:-

http://www.libranet.com/

and purchase Libranet 2.8.1 which is a stable mix of Debian stable and
sarge releases, for a trouble free introduction into the Debian realm
and go from there. It's what I have done, and I am convinced that until
the Debian installer project matures, that it is the path that all
Debian newbies are better off travelling. Libranet also now has onsite
forum facilities to help with any problems you may experience.

Also, if you would kindly adjust your word-wrap setting in your email
configuration settings to 72 characters, I am sure that other list users
would greatly appreciate it.
Merry Xmas.
Regards,

David.


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Re: network install via dialup?

[David Palmer.]

On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 11:52:06 -0700
"s. keeling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Incoming from James Miller:
> > I'm thinking of recommending Debian to someone who has only a dialin
> > connection to the 'net.  For various reasons, a network install would be
> 
> Isn't cheapbytes still out there?  The last time I bought from them,
> shipping cost more than the disks.
> 
> Alternatively, can't you get access to a machine with adsl/cable and a
> burner?  That way, your "someone" will have disks.
> 
> Yes, it's possible.  No, it's not much fun.  I just did an apt-get
> upgrade and it tied up my phone for days.
> 
My last dist-upgrade took 36 hours.
Regards,

David.


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Re: Any Linux-oriented hardware-review sites?

[David Palmer.]

On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 08:42:15 -0600
Hugo Vanwoerkom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Roberto Sanchez wrote:
> > Kent West wrote:
> > 
> >> Roberto Sanchez wrote:
> >>
> >>> Kent West wrote:
> >>>
> 
> > 
> > The nForce is the mobo chipset (not the graphics chip).  If I had it
> > to do over, I would get an AMD (which I already have) a mobo with
> > VIA chipset and no onboard anything (except maybe sound, since that
> > is not so important to me).  Also, the onboard nForce takes a
> > proprietary binary-only driver to work.  The nForce2 sound (a
> > modified i810) is pretty decent.
> > 
> > -Roberto
> 
> I would like a mobo that uses memory that I now  have in this KT7A
> mobo (Type:168pin SDRAM DIMM 256MB) *and* AMD, like you say, *and* VIA
> 
> chipsets *and no onboard anything* *but* thermal control that allows
> for the fan to be turned off when not needed.
> Anybody know of that combination or where to search for it? I usually 
> look at Newegg, which is very complete but no Linux of course...
> 
> Hugo.
> 
What I do is go to the AMD site, reference the CPU I'm interested in,
and then explore all the recommended accesories that AMD have linked.
You should have plenty of choice from there.
Regards,

David.


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Re: Any Linux-oriented hardware-review sites?

[David Palmer.]

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:55:48 -0500
Roberto Sanchez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Kent West wrote:
> > Roberto Sanchez wrote:
> > 
> >> Kent West wrote:
> >>
> >>> Anyone know of any hardware-review sites from a Linux perspective?
> >>>
> >>> I'm looking to buy a replacement motherboard . . . .
> >>>
> >>
> >> I can tell you that there are currently unresolvod issues with the
> >> timing on an AMD/nForce combination.  There are patches available, but
> >> it gets to be a pain after while if you want to upgrade the kernel.
> >>
> >> -Roberto
> > 
> > 
> > So you're suggesting I stay away from boards with nForce chipsets? from 
> > nForce video cards? both?
> > 
> 
> The nForce is the mobo chipset (not the graphics chip).  If I had it
> to do over, I would get an AMD (which I already have) a mobo with VIA
> chipset and no onboard anything (except maybe sound, since that is not
> so important to me).  Also, the onboard nForce takes a proprietary
> binary-only driver to work.  The nForce2 sound (a modified i810) is
> pretty decent.
> 
> -Roberto
> 
The GNU-Darwin crowd advocate AMD built on Via also.
Regards,

David.


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Re: Need install help -mig from RedHat to Debian

[David Palmer.]

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 04:35:43 -0800
"Gruessle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> 
> Hi,

Hello,
> 
> I hat problems installing my mouse, video card and monitor with Debian
> 
> So what I did is I installed RedHat and got the config for those:
> 
> Monitor:
> DDC Probed Monitor = Compac V70
> Horizontal (30-69)
> Vertical (50-125)

You will probably also need a resolution setting, here.
> 
> Video Card:
> RIVA TNT2 with 4MB or
> NIVDIA RIVA TNT2 (Generic) with 4MB

As far as I am aware, this card is specified as 32MB
> 
> Mouse:
> PS/2 with roller
> 
> 
> So how do I select the right stuff now at Debian?
> 
Regards,

David.


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Re: Easing the load.

[David Palmer.]

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:35:58 +
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> On Sun, Dec 14, 2003 at 07:48:26AM -0600, Hoyt Bailey wrote:
> > 
> > - Original Message ----- 
> > From: "David Palmer." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 23:16
> > Subject: Re: Easing the load.
> > 
> > 
> > > On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 09:16:24 -0500
> > > Paul Morgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 20:50:15 +0800, David Palmer wrote:
> > > > I think the solution to the "server down, need answer NOW" issue
> > > > is:
> > > >
> > > > 1.  Ask on the #debian IRC channel
> > > > 2.  Get better at refining Google searches.
> > > > 3.  Use professional support services.
> > >
> > I agree with David if the posting dosent reflect a Tech. approch to
> > the subject then it shouldnt be on this list.
> > Hoyt
> > 
> >
> so your post here shouldn't actually be on the list?
> 
> 
> i mean, technically speaking, it's hardly reflective of a technical
> approach to the subject to merely announce your agreement with the
> previous post, is it?
> 
> as for david's 3 points, though i'm sure he means well, i would be
> very disappointed to see anyone receive those as a response to a
> genuine query on this list. while independent inititiative is well
> recommended, the latent discouragement in that response is not
> reflective of this community and would do it no positive service
> whatsoever.
> 
> ben

Thank you, Ben, but that is actually an incorrect attribution that you
are referring to.
These three points were all the recourse that Paul Morgan was prepared
to concede to a Debian sys. admin in trouble.
The point I made in the original post was in accord with your statement
with the endorsement of the community factor.
Regards,

David.
> 
> 
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Re: Easing the load.

[David Palmer.]

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 12:25:11 -0500
Paul Morgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 13:16:05 +0800, David Palmer. wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> 
> Perhaps you'll follow your own advice and seek three votes to throw
> yourself off the list for your inability to use line wrap.

Well, maybe this time I forgot it.
But if that is all the reply you have, I wouldn't be making a public
exhibition of my mentality.
As I have said before, 'Any idiot can be destructive, It takes a mature
human being to be creative.'
Grow up on your own time.
Regards,

David.
> 
> -- 
> paul
> 
> "Do the little things" ("Gwnewch y pethau bychain")
> 
> St. David (Dewi Sant) of Wales, last sermon, Sunday 27th February 589
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Easing the load.

[David Palmer.]

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 09:16:24 -0500
Paul Morgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 20:50:15 +0800, David Palmer wrote:
> 
> > I have seen what I believe is a need for an additional mailing list, not
> > so much for the benefit of the developers' list, but most definitely for
> > the sake of sanity on debian-user. I have posted to curiosain
> > recognition of their patience with an O.T. situation.
> > 
> [snip]
> > 
> > 
> > As a migration point for O.T. threads that are creating a
> > distraction within the main lists. There are two aspects to
> > this:-
> > 
> > (1). The distracting, disruptive influence just stated, and
> > 
> > (2). The carry over and clutter created within the corresponding
> > archive. The last thing a busy admin needs when a server is
> > down, and she requires the answer to a problem, is to have to
> > wade through a tide of irrelevant flotsam and jetsam. Having the
> > facility of a list of this nature would have the effect of
> > really cleaning up the archives.
> > 
> > Non productive O.T. threads could, with the consensus of three
> > other list members (to avoid personality clash scenarios) for
> > example, could be migrated to the proposed list, leaving the
> > main list to proceed productively, maintaining the integrity of
> > the archive. If the thread becomes too off the wall for the new
> > list, and after an initial negotiation fails, the
> > personality(ies) could be unsubscribed. I believe the new list
> > could be as productively essential as any other in its' own way,
> > I do not see it as the dumping ground for the collective Debian
> > effluviant, just a little further down the alimentary tract
> > perhaps ;
> > 
> [snip]
> 
> So, you are wanting debian-user to become a moderated list, basically.

Yes, moderated by the list members as it always has been.
 
> What if there are three other list members who *don't* want the thread to
> be migrated?

Here we have the present problem. Terminate the thread, take it to private mail,
or persist with the thread on Debian-User to the detriment of the list, associated 
archive, and the generation of ill-will within the community.

If there are personalities who wish to persist in a destructive behaviour pattern, 
they will do so. But if they have an alternative venue, they will have less 
justification for their persistence and will generally accept the alternative. Those 
that don't, probably would have difficulty coordinating in any social setting, with a 
corresponding inability to contribute to, rather than take from, that environment.
> 
> I think that the whole idea is unworkable,

There would appear to be a number of people that disagree with your somewhat negative 
viewpoint.

> and, anyway, for the most part,
> I enjoy the OT threads, although I resist (mostly) the temptation to add
> to them.

There's nothing wrong with enjoying them, the only objection would appear to be the 
appropriateness of the setting. In the right setting, there would be no need to resist 
participation, dive in, make a pig of yourself.
> 
> If one is an admin with a critical server down, maybe one ought to be
> engaging the services of a support professional.  (I know they're
> not your exact words, but "Critical server down" implies a business or
> commercial service, and one maybe shouldn't be relying on free advice to
> support that.)

We appear to differ here, also.
Just because an admin isn't currently on the list, doesn't mean that they are not part 
of the community. The Debian community is planet-wide, even bigger. I don't have the 
details to hand, but the current Mars probe is running on Linux, which particular 
flavour, I wouldn't know, but maybe it's Debian.
The whole concept of community revolves around mutual support.

A support professional?
Which particular aspect of the social/professional spectrum do you fondly imagine a 
system administrator is native to?
We need as many Debian servers up and running in the professional environment as we 
can possibly manage, and if we have a Debian sys. admin. call in with a question, and 
I had the answer, she could have it for free.
And I hope she makes a lot of money out of it, because the more professional Debian 
systems/admins we have operating, reduces the number of microsoft ones we have to put 
up with.

Who would you call in?
A M.C.S.E?

> 
> The idea of moderating a list by the "three people don't like the thread"
> 

Re: Can we tag [T]echnical posts?

[David Palmer.]

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:20:07 -0700
"s. keeling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Incoming from Monique Y. Herman:
> > 
> > There is absolutely a learning curve to every community, and
> > long-standing members deservedly get more respect and slack.  I do
> > think that I've been lurking and posting long enough to have a sense
> > of the community.
> 
> I don't think that's possible.  Between the range of Rick Moen
> (consummate diplomat and highly reasoned thinker) through Peter
> T. Brewer (curmudgeonly SOB), it's a pretty wide field.  Both of those
> are well worth reading when you run into them.
> 
> Simpler is just to press the "d" key when your buttons get pushed.
> 
Yes, it has a certain therapeutic value, too.
But Sergeant-of-arms of an online community?
Please, do it in the privacy of your own bedroom.
That sort of fantasy would hold pride of place in any of the O.T.
threads that I have seen here.
Regards,

David.


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Re: Can we tag [T]echnical posts?

[David Palmer.]

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 20:24:46 -0800
"Karsten M. Self" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> on Thu, Dec 11, 2003 at 01:13:47PM -0800, Tom Ballard, MSFT shill
> ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > I don't expect this to be adopted, 
> 
> Right.  This is an unmoderated list of volunteers.  Many of whom can't
> get subscription/unsubscription instructions right, despite the fact
> that they're printed on every damned post
> 
> > but I'd like to get the suggestion out there:
> > 
> > I really enjoy reading the technical questions about "How do I do
> > X", "Here's how to do X", and even "Here's my opinion about X
> > technology or technique".  I much less enjoy reading the posts about
> > "Getting Linux adopted", "Is Linux good for consumers", or other
> > "soft issues".
> 
> Ignore them.
> 
> The threads on completely off-topic issues (previously:  rail, opium,
> and currently media acccuracy) simply shouldn't be on d-u.  I've held
> my tongue this time, but the primary participants are very close to
> hitting my killfile.  Again:  there _is_ debian-curiosa.
> 
> Many mailers have scoring or rating facilities.  You might want to
> highlight posts by technically adept users.  I do this mentally
> myself.
> 
Hello Karsten,

Apparently this is not the appointed function of curiosa, the people on
that list inform me.
I'd appreciate your views on the thread:- 'Easing the load.'
Regards,

David.


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Re: Linux is not for consumers!

[David Palmer.]

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 18:47:15 -0500
Roberto Sanchez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> s. keeling wrote:
> > Incoming from Richard Kimber:
> > 
> >>On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:07:23 -0600
> >>"Michael Martinell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>That's why the people doing the documentation should be the
> >power-user>>who is not familiar with every intricate detail, and has
> >had to struggle>>and learn the system.  That is the person who can
> >usually explain things>>in a
> >>
> >>This sounds like an excuse for programmers not to document their
> >programs.
> > 
> > 
> > Programmers need no excuse for this.  They know how it works.  If
> > you think it needs documentation, go ahead and write it.
> > 
> > 
> >>But I feel strongly that to overcome the original point in the
> >thread,>many app developers need to give more attention to the
> >documentation, and>indeed the user interface, and a little less to
> >adding that "nice new>exciting" (and undocumented) feature.
> > 
> > 
> > Note the smiley: Go to hell! :-)
> > 
> > If I were being paid to do this kind of thing, my boss might have a
> > more convincing argument as to why I should document my work.
> > However, for something I'm giving away for nothing, there's no such
> > obligation that I can see.
> > 
> > Go join the LDP and fix this apparent deficiency yourself if you
> > think it's a problem.
> > 
> > 
> 
> I'm sorry but you are way off base.  A lawyer that does pro bono work,
> or a doctor that volunteers at a public clinic, is not absolved of
> maintaining proper documentation (case files or medical charts).  We
> (software developers) are (or at least should be considered)
> professionals.  I would think that if you are just going to half-ass
> the job the community would be better off without your "efforts."
> 
This is the crux.
It's not just the immediate comprehension level within the individual
that is at stake here, it's the advancement of the community as a whole.
The faster a newbie can learn, the more quickly he/she is going to be in
a position to feed back into that community. Any act or ommission that
retards the learning process, retards and thereby weakens the community
as a whole.

I'm involved in a project to implement reduced term copywrite, cross
spectrum, but most specifically within the educational resource factor.
When discussing terms of licencing, most of the people involved wanted
to restrict access to educational resources to registered educational
institutions.
When individuals, on a self-educating regime are denied access to
materials, it's not just class victimization. These individuals are
members of society, and if they do not receive an education that
enhances their existence within that society, then it degrades society
in more ways than one.
Regards,

David.


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Re: Linux is not for consumers!

[David Palmer.]

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:36:32 -0700
Thanasis Kinias <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> scripsit David Palmer.:
> 
> > If you request help, terminologies like 'chown' and chmode' or
> > somesuch are thrown at you without any effort toward fuller
> > explanation, and it goes further than assumption through long
> > familiarity, there is some sort of supercilious ego factor involved
> > also.
>  
> That reminds me of the reaction of a coworker of Ashkenazic origin
> upon first encountering `chmod' year ago:  ``Khmad?  WTF is a khmad? 
> I've got an uncle called Khmad!''
> 
> It can be enlightening at times to see things through new eyes...
> 
That's right!
Less, but it's spelled 'ls'.
I once learned how to waltz and foxtrot, but what dance is this?
Regards,

David.


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Re: Linux is not for consumers!

[David Palmer.]

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:21:01 -0700
Nate Duehr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> 
> David Palmer. wrote:
> 
> > If you request help, terminologies like 'chown' and chmode' or
> > somesuch are thrown at you without any effort toward fuller
> > explanation, and it goes further than assumption through long
> > familiarity, there is some sort of supercilious ego factor involved
> > also.
> 
> Or the assumption by the more experienced, who know that that your 
> problem was far enough advanced that if you skipped the "basics" like 
> filesystem manipulation you'd better be ready to fire up "man chown" 
> yourself and back up and ask THAT question first?  :-)
> 
Sorry, Nate, this doesn't apply.
There is no set routine to what you learn first in Debian, or any other
branch of Linux.
File system manipulation? I wouldn't know the first thing about it.
I don't want Nautilus or Konqueror, that sort of GUI system is too much
like windows, and not what I came here for.
How is a newbie supposed to know what to learn first? There's no
discernable learning structure.

It's to the point now, where I just lurk on the lists, because after a
previous learning process with hardware, I know that terminologies,
given time, will sink in, or you catch up with them in the learning
process, and you place them into context.
Ocassionally there will be a bit of interaction of this nature, but
generally now the only time I speak up, is when another newbie arrives
on the list and asks for something I know about. I've just done that for
someone who needed to know about 64Bit SMP. But that's it. Which is
crazy, because I take knowledge in like a sponge, and I should already
be in a position to provide a higher level of feedback than I do.

The fastest learning track I have found with Debian, is books.
I've bought the Debian/GNULinux Bible by Steve Hunger which has a potato
disc in the back of it, which I am going to install on a couple of old
486 desktops, one for a mail server, and the other for a standalone
firewall (Bastille), and then upgrade them.
I've also just got hold of Rod Smiths' 'Linux Powertools,' with a quick
read through, that looks very useful, I've got a couple of others on the
way as well, among them is 'Rute Guide and Exposition', but as far as
the learning process goes, the list is a very minor part of it all.
Regards,

David.


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Re: Linux is not for consumers!

[David Palmer.]

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:50:11 -0500
"H. S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Paul E Condon wrote:
> 
> > Documenting software is like writing a good text book. The author
> > must get in touch with his "inner Dummy" and speak to his needs.
> > Some geeks have this ability, but many do not.
> 
> 
> This is *so* true!! And the troubling part is they simply refuse to 
> understand this.
> ->HS

They simply don't want to.
I'm still considering taking up doc writing myself. I've started a
thread at another site to deal with basics for other newbies like
myself.
If you request help, terminologies like 'chown' and chmode' or somesuch
are thrown at you without any effort toward fuller explanation, and it
goes further than assumption through long familiarity, there is some
sort of supercilious ego factor involved also.

This is not right across the board. There are some genuinely helpful
personalities, but the incidence is high.
This is not an opportunity to condescendingly assume that this is an
incidence of some newbie demanding a spoonfed situation, I haven't got
where I am in life through charity reliance, I enjoy doing my own
research. All I am doing is pointing out that this attitude is
diametrically opposed to the terminology 'community.'
Regards,

David.


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Re: Debian for Dual Opterons...

[David Palmer.]

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:51:17 -0600
Michael Kahle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Has anyone tried installed Debian on a dual Opteron system?  I am
> thinking of building a new server based on this technology, any
> thoughts?  Would I use the IA64 branch?
> 
Hello Michael,

Here is the mailing list:-

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

And here is the wiki:-

http://wiki.debian.net/index.cgi?debian-amd64

Which will give you a couple of other links including download.
Regards,

David.
 


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Easing the load.

[David Palmer]

I have seen what I believe is a need for an additional mailing list, not
so much for the benefit of the developers' list, but most definitely for
the sake of sanity on debian-user. I have posted to curiosain
recognition of their patience with an O.T. situation.

The following layout is for initial discussion only,pending the full
application being tendered as a wishlist bug report.

Thanking you for your attention.


Mailing List Request.



Basic Purpose:-


For this list, is multi-part.

A need is seen, within the context of Debian, for a repository for all
discussions and notifications that are not list specific. It could be
argued here that if a subject is not list-specific, it has no place in
the list. Allow me to supply some examples:-


A notification on Debian-User of a new worm variant that sys.
admins on the list require notice of, as they are running Debian
servers supporting windows boxes also munging the mail
headers/filters of the developer who is on the list to supply
advice;


Discussions that become O.T., that although they are not
technical in nature enhance and enforce the community nature of
Debian. They occur, so therefore members feel the need for the
interaction, this would strengthen the community as a community.
This is especially noticeable on lists with a broad spectrum
sociological diversity such as Debian -User. I am not referring
here, to the inconsequential drivel that arises from those
entities that require a stage to prance on with a captive
audience to assuage the requirements imposed by attention
deficiency, there have been conversations initiated within the
disciplines of philosophy and psychology/sociology, for example,
and it is to these I refer. The other variety would get as short
shrift on the new list as being as unproductive as they are in
any other environment.

There are many highly qualified people in the community,
physicists, mathematicians, et al, who, if they had the option
of taking part in non-debian discussion, could ironically
generate new directions within Debian. For example, there are a
number of packages of a mathematical nature within the Debian
programme, these could well be collated into a sub-project. The
type of list structure that I advocate conceivably forming a
wellspring for projects of this nature;



As a migration point for O.T. threads that are creating a
distraction within the main lists. There are two aspects to
this:-

(1). The distracting, disruptive influence just stated, and

(2). The carry over and clutter created within the corresponding
archive. The last thing a busy admin needs when a server is
down, and she requires the answer to a problem, is to have to
wade through a tide of irrelevant flotsam and jetsam. Having the
facility of a list of this nature would have the effect of
really cleaning up the archives.

Non productive O.T. threads could, with the consensus of three
other list members (to avoid personality clash scenarios) for
example, could be migrated to the proposed list, leaving the
main list to proceed productively, maintaining the integrity of
the archive. If the thread becomes too off the wall for the new
list, and after an initial negotiation fails, the
personality(ies) could be unsubscribed. I believe the new list
could be as productively essential as any other in its' own way,
I do not see it as the dumping ground for the collective Debian
effluviant, just a little further down the alimentary tract
perhaps ;



As a repository for, and discussion arena of current news and
affairs relevant to our industry, e.g., Microsofts' latest
strategy, SCOs' gymnastics, the latest W.S.I.S. Conference
moves, and etc.

Debian is a community, but as such is also part of the greater
community and not isolated from it. This world awareness could
subtly enhance a wide number of Debian community aspects from
programming direction to security. It would also create a
resource for such entities as Debian Weekly;



There are other things that could be put forward as viable reasons for
the establishment of a list of this nature. I have only elaborated to
the extent that I have to illustrate the productive potential of this
venture, and the associated value it could present to the Debian
project, so as to avoid the hasty labeling of the situation as 'vanity
or offtopic.'


Interested Audience.


I'm sure that the number of O.T. threads in the lists are indicative of
the ability of this new list to esta

Re: New Debian installer?

[David Palmer.]

On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 04:22:35 +0100
Alexander Fitterling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Am Mittwoch, 10. Dezember 2003 03:41 schrieb Paul Johnson:
> HI.
> > Nope, that's it.  That's how you get it.
> What FS actually are supported?
> 
Hello Alex.

For detailed information, you may well be better off speaking to these
people here:- http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/

There is also a chat facility:- #debian-boot on irc.debian.org

Regards,

David.


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Re: Debian Server Compromise -- A Fire Drill ??

[David Palmer.]

On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 10:58:34 +0100
Burkhard Woelfel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On Tuesday 09 December 2003 01:55, Joyce, Matthew wrote:
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: ScruLoose [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Friday, 5 December 2003 8:58 AM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: Re: Debian Server Compromise -- A Fire Drill ??
> > >
> > >
> > > It's "cracker". Not "hacker".
> > > http://web.bilkent.edu.tr/Online/Jargon30/JARGON_C/CRACKER.HTM
> >
> > It's both according to OED.
> [snip]
> 
> There are numerous "definitions" for the word hacker, and the definition that 
> ScruLoose objected to can be found all over the place - it even made it into 
> renowned dictionaries, just as you said. 
> 
snip
 
> All of the above don't really fit the sociolect of large parts of the Free 
> Software Community. A good place to read about the concept ScruLoose was 
> refering to is the Hacker-HOWTO by Eric S. Raymond
> 
> 

snip
> 
Hello,

It all boils down to an old saying that I can't remember the origin of now:-
'Any idiot can be destructive,   -- Cracker 
It takes a mature human being to be creative.'  -- Hacker

This has cross discipline application.
Regards,

David.


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Re: Mimail-L

[David Palmer.]

On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 23:30:10 +
Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 12:24:09PM +0800, David Palmer. wrote:
> > I have just received a copy of the new variant of the Mimail worm.
> > Would anyone like a free sample?
> > As new condition.
> > I haven't even clicked the attachment.
> > Going cheap.
> > Information on the Sophos website concerning the followup message if
> > you don't reply to the initial one.
> > Have copied and pasted the main message in all its' intellectual
> > glory below:-
> 
> Thanks for getting us to read more spam and polluting our Bayesian
> filters by mixing spammish words into a legitimate message.
> 
> I mean, seriously. Don't we all get more than enough of this stuff?
> 
Hello Colin,

Do you get enough of this?
As far as I am aware, this is the latest -L variant, or it was when I
posted it to the list.
Many on the list run windows programmes, and run them within a
commercial environment as well.
The last time I posted this sort of thing to the list, somebody had a
script written to counter within half an hour, if memory serves me
correctly.
The intention, when posting, was not to spam. It was to show the form of
a new worm variant so that anybody who it related to could prepare
themselves.
Regards,

David.


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Re: Unidentified subject!

[David Palmer.]

On Sun, 7 Dec 2003 03:35:12 -0800
Tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Sun, Dec 07, 2003 at 07:39:18PM +0800, David Palmer. wrote:
> > Have you asked Tom if he knows anything about this?
> 
> I'd rather be me than you.  There's a lot of you.
> 
Oh...
Hello, Tom.
How are you?
Come to mess with my head, have we?
Regards,

David.


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Re: Unidentified subject!

[David Palmer.]

On Sun, 7 Dec 2003 12:15:50 +0100
Nicos Gollan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Sat, 6 Dec 2003 16:33:45 -0800
> "Karsten M. Self" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > > A spammer harvesting replies.
> > 
> > Any particular reason to feel that's the case?  Are you seeing this
> > behavior elsewhere?
> 
> I'm getting some of those lately between all the other trash, and
> frankly I can't think of any other reason for those messages (other
> than some {m|w}ildly disturbed freak).
> 
Hmmm...
Have you asked Tom if he knows anything about this?
Regards,

David.


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Re: [OT] voting (was: Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications))

[David Palmer.]

On Sun, 7 Dec 2003 00:32:46 -0700
"Monique Y. Herman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 at 05:57 GMT, Paul E Condon penned:
> > 
> > As the most recent user of this phrase on this list, let me join
> > this discussion:
> > 
> > The sense in which I meant 'know history' was to know what has
> > happened in prior times when a certain course of action or a certain
> > line of reasoning was used. For humans, instincts are stuff like the
> > ability to acquire and use language, the ability to engage in
> > thought about what others are thinking, etc. Clarke's postulates
> > seeem to me foolish, but amusing. We don't have adequate definitions
> > of what we mean by altruism in humans. Our lives are rather complex,
> > and what might seem altruistic at first sight can be, on more deep
> > examination,'enlightened self-interest', and visa-versa. 
> > 
> 
> Who are you, Kant? =P
> 
> I haven't actually read the book, so I can't really chime in on what
> Clarke did or didn't accomplish or intend to accomplish.  
> 
> [snip]
> 
> > 
> > For me, the consistency with which mistakes are repeated, is a proof
> > of the ignorance of history on the part of the players, not a
> > disproof of the addage. 
> 
> I tend to agree here, except that it's not that simple, because the
> factors are never *exactly* the same, and some people are better than
> others at discerning similar patterns.  In fact, I'd tend to believe
> that most folks are pretty bad at it.  Then again, that's probably
> just self-aggrandizing fluff, since I consider myself to be pretty
> good at it.
> 
> ... Anyway, point is, it's not as simple as recognizing identical
> situations.  It's seeing similar situations, recognizing the pattern,
> and being able to extrapolate from there.
> 
> > It is hard to determine just exactly what is the special thing that
> > makes homo sapiens different from other great apes. Some say there
> > is no essential difference, others say that we were create different
> > by God. I think we have a special ability to see ourselves from
> > 'outside', and to think about how others see us. But others claim
> > that this is an illusion. But if one chooses to live within the
> > illusion, knowing history is surely better than not knowing it.  And
> > if one pretends to reject the illusion, ... whatever ... 
> 
> Heh.
> 
> Every time scientists have held forth some notion that "humans are
> unique because," later scientists have found a variety of "animals"
> that do the same thing.  I'm not saying that there might not be some
> unique point, but the fact is, without being able to sit down to a
> pint of guinness with representatives of other species, it's kind of
> hard to really know what, if anything, is going on in their heads.
> 
> Just today, I was reading Discover Magazine, and this scientist was
> stating as "fact" that animals simply don't feel pain the way humans
> do. Maybe that's what he has to tell himself to get through the day,
> but last I heard, that was far from accepted Truth, and it's certainly
> a concept that I have trouble swallowing, having seen my cats and dogs
> seemingly in pain, seemingly panicked, seemingly joyful, seemingly
> playful, seemingly sad ... maybe there are other explanations, but
> they ring hollow to my ears.
> 
Heidegger, not Kant is the one with the answer here.
'Dasein', - Man, the being for whom being is a question.
With all due respect to cats and dogs.
Regards,

David.


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Re: [OT] voting (was: Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications))

[David Palmer.]

On Sat, 6 Dec 2003 23:14:16 -0700
Paul E Condon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Sun, Dec 07, 2003 at 05:40:32AM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 02:25:18PM -0700, Monique Y. Herman wrote:
> > > On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 at 21:13 GMT, csj penned:
> > > >> 
> > > >> As usual, science fiction was here before.  C.F., _The Songs of
> > > >> Distant Earth_ by Arthur C. Clarke.
> > > > 
> > > > You do remember that the first generation colonists in the novel
> > > > were"manufactured" from gene samples and raised by machines that
> > > > taught them a sanitized version of human history and culture? 
> > > > They were genetically and culturally engineered to be
> > > > altruistic.  So maybe our best hope lies in breeding out our
> > > > baser instincts.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > Somehow, I doubt that "baser insticts" can be bred out, especially
> > > by just not teaching about them.
> > > 
> > > That whole "those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it"
> > > line...
> > > 
> > >
> > given the consistency with which the old mistakes are repreated, i
> > seriously wonder if that adage holds true.
> > 
> 
> I have another thought. This, and my last post, and lots of other
> stuff of this nature, should really not be here. I'm subscribing to
> debian-curiosa. I think everyone who want to talk about 'the meaning
> of life', or other OT things should either move there, or post a
> message there as to where they are moving. Its fun, but lets not do
> it here.
> 
> -- 
> Paul E Condon   
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
Seconded.
See you there.
Regards,

David.


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Re: Installing on a GRUB system?

[David Palmer.]

On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 22:55:31 -0600
tripolar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> David
> what installer are you talking about? woody installer?
> I used the newer sarge one and I didnt notice any option but lilo
> because sure would have appreciated installing grub instead. Instead
> will have to install & configure grub after the fact.
> 
> On Sat, 2003-12-06 at 22:48, David Palmer. wrote:
> > On Sun, 7 Dec 2003 04:37:09 +0100
> > Arnt Karlsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > > On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 10:09:59 -0500, 
> > > lloyd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message 
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > > 
> > > > i'm downloading the debian-installer beta.  i intend to install
> > > > on a
> > > > 
> > > > spare partition on my GRUB-based system.
> > > > 
> > > > does debian-installer use GRUB or LILO?
> > > > 
> > > > if LILO, can i just skip the LILO installation and add an entry
> > > > to grub.conf instead?
> > > 
> > > ..you can do both: point lilo to the /boot of your install and
> > > boot that off grub on the mbr.  And you can do apt-get remove
> > > --purge lilo and setup grub instead.  
> > > 
> > Apparently it's not immediately obvious, but installing Grub instead
> > of Lilo is available as an option in the installer.
> > Regards,
> > 
> > David.
> > 
> 
In the new Debian installer.
I believed this was the one you were referring to.
With Debian, Lilo is the default, but one of the developers stated that
Grub was available in the installer as an option.
I cannot tell you where, as I have not used it myself, but it will be
somewhere.
Regards,

David.


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Re: Installing on a GRUB system?

[David Palmer.]

On Sun, 7 Dec 2003 04:37:09 +0100
Arnt Karlsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 10:09:59 -0500, 
> lloyd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 
> > i'm downloading the debian-installer beta.  i intend to install on a
> > 
> > spare partition on my GRUB-based system.
> > 
> > does debian-installer use GRUB or LILO?
> > 
> > if LILO, can i just skip the LILO installation and add an entry to 
> > grub.conf instead?
> 
> ..you can do both: point lilo to the /boot of your install and boot
> that off grub on the mbr.  And you can do apt-get remove --purge lilo 
> and setup grub instead.  
> 
Apparently it's not immediately obvious, but installing Grub instead of
Lilo is available as an option in the installer.
Regards,

David.


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Re: LP -> CD

[David Palmer.]

On Sat, 6 Dec 2003 12:31:59 +0100
Luis Fernando Llana Díaz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi all,
>   I have several LP's that I would like to transfer to CD's. I have already 
> connected a LP player to my sound card and I cad heard it. I am searching 
> programs to:
> 1. Record the LP in the hard disk.
> 2. Split the sound files in their tracks.
> 
> I have search in google I have found a lot of programs. I am not an expert in 
> sound treatment programs so I want to hear your opinions about the simpler 
> and more convinient programs. 
> 
Hello Luis,

apt-get update
apt-get install gramofile.
Regards,

David.


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Re: Linux Kernel Security - Can it ever be 100%

[David Palmer.]

On Sat, 6 Dec 2003 02:29:29 -0800
Tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 03:04:22PM +0800, David Palmer. wrote:
> > 
> > For a start, please allow me to refer you to Emmanuel Kant with
> > reference to 'a priori.'
> 
> 'a priori' means you know how to do it independent of experience.

Not quite.

> But I'm like Alice: when I used a word it means what I mean it to
> mean.

This perception may have application in some forms of modern art, the
type that believes that communication is superfluous.
> 
> In this context: when my job is to find Billy Joe Bob's phone bill,
> 99% of the stuff that happens in a computer is unnecessary, *if* the 
> computer was built that one and only thing.  Just keep "defining the 
> problem down".

And this appears to have no logical correlation at all.
View this as an assessment, as judgement is not a process that I indulge
in.

  You don't need privilege levels if there are no 
> assholes.
> 
With reference to the security aspect, perhaps you are used to viewing a
situation through only the one set of paradigms. This is a totally
different environment to what you are used to. Prepare for a paradigm
shift.

There are levels here, but they aren't really associated with the normal
concept of 'privilege.' It's like any other community, you establish
your own level within the community in the way in which you conduct
yourself.

Now, let's see:
You walked into town and carried on like some kind of attention deficit;
insulted one of the developers simply because he expressed amazement at
your pseudointellectual, pyrotechnical behaviour;
derided the perceptions of anybody that did not agree with yours' in the
manner of an inferiority complex the size of your average postage stamp
european kingdom;
I could go on, but I think the scenario is established.

I think as far as being on the level of an arsehole goes, you'd be
looking up, Alice.
Regards,

David.


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Re: Linux Kernel Security - Can it ever be 100%

[David Palmer.]

On Sat, 6 Dec 2003 02:39:38 -0800
Tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 10:55:23PM -0700, Paul E Condon wrote:
> > > [This rant is probably full of shit] :-)
> > > 
> >   Yes. ;-)
> 
> The reason it sounds so dumb is everybody would be out of a job.
> I've never met a single person yet who can truly look at statements like 
> this and say "yes, let's do that."
> 
> 20 years from now somebody will suggest the same thing and win a nobel 
> prize.
> 
Yes.

Regards,

David.


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Re: error

[David Palmer.]

On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 23:16:07 -0600
"Norman Lane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I attempted to file a complaint on line. Each time I was informed that the phone 
> number (my phone number) was incorrect; yet, my phone number, 972 727 7260 is 
> registered on the Do Not Call list. I could not file my complaint except by calling 
> 1 888 382 l222.
> Norman Lane
> 
Stand by.
I'm about to put a call through.
(What is happening to this list?)
Regards,

David.


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Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)

[David Palmer.]

On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 21:00:02 -0800
Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 08:19:25PM -0800, Tom wrote:
> > The unfortunate thing about people like you is you go from this bizarre 
> > self-loathing to crass commercialism (usually around 27).
> 
> You know, murphy really ought to be making sure the addresses used to
> post to this list are valid.

Yes.
And the ones behind those addresses also.

Regards,

David.


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Re: Linux Kernel Security - Can it ever be 100%

[David Palmer.]

On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 20:58:40 -0800
Tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 11:43:23PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote:
> [great stuff which is absolutely correct]
> 
> However, I "Tom Ballard" have figured it all out.
> The problem with all of computer science is the left hand doesn't know
> 
> what the right hand is doing.  All of these problems are finite and
> can be handled in an "a priori" way.  The problem is computer science
> grew up not knowing that so we pretend we don't immediately know
> everything and compute in an "a posteori way".
> 
> What I'm talking about is tearing down the concept of a general
> purpose computer.  The only reason I can't run all my programs in a
> single memory space and know just exactly what the heck is going to
> happen is it makes poor economic sense to work that way.
> 
> Consider a SQL Server for example.  For any given schema which will 
> a maximum of contain {N1...Nm} records, I can compute "a priori" the 
> exact disk location of any record.  If memory wasn't so fucking slow 
> and there were plenty of it, we could assemble any image of this very 
> quickly.  All I need is a simple "I/O monster" that does this one
> fixed task in an "a priori way".
> 
> So the problem is general purpose computers.  We need to be able to 
> produce fixed-function devices in a one-off fashion.
> 
> [This rant is probably full of shit] :-)

Yes.

For a start, please allow me to refer you to Emmanuel Kant with
reference to 'a priori.'
Regards, 

David.


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Re: Unidentified subject!

[David Palmer.]

On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 13:32:37 -0800 (PST)
bob nole <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> you are a animal raper
> 
> 
How did he find out?
Regards,

David.



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Re: Mail Consolidation

[David Palmer.]

On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 15:06:40 -0600
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Where do I go to modify this setting to make it Digest version.
> 
> 
The same page you subscribed to the list on.
Regards,

David.


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Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy

[David Palmer.]

On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 23:05:39 -0500
ScruLoose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 09:50:35PM -0600, John Hasler wrote:
> > David Palmer. wrote:
> 
> > > Put all politicians on a wage of $500.00/week, and make it a
> > > capital offense to take a political bribe, and you would get the
> > > ones that want to do the job for the right reasons.
> > 
> > No.  You'd get the ones that want to do the job for all the worst
> > possible reasons.  Under those conditions only fanatics and
> > crackpots would run for office.
> 
> This is true, but you could take a huge step in the right direction
> just by applying a halfway-sane definition of "political bribe" in the
> first place, and making sure it comes with stiff penalties.
> 
> Half of the stuff that gets called "campaign contribution" in the US
> would get both parties ten years in jail if you tried it in any other
> democracy in the world.
> 
> How Enron donating a billion dollars (that it got from stockholders by
> fraud) to G. W. Bush's presidential campaign (for example) contributes
> to freedom, democracy, and fair elections is a mystery to me.
> 
Yep, and Cheneys' outfit, Haliburton, have just wound up their contract
in Iraq, from what I hear.
Regards,

David.


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Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy

[David Palmer.]

On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 21:50:35 -0600
John Hasler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> David Palmer. wrote:
> > Put all politicians on a wage of $500.00/week, and make it a capital
> > offense to take a political bribe, and you would get the ones that
> > want to do the job for the right reasons.
> 
> No.  You'd get the ones that want to do the job for all the worst
> possible reasons.  Under those conditions only fanatics and crackpots
> would run for office.

They do now, John.
I can't tell the difference between them and game show hosts.
Regards,

David.


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Re: Debian Server Compromise -- A Fire Drill ??

[David Palmer.]

On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 00:48:58 +
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 04:57:55PM -0500, ScruLoose wrote:
> > On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 01:50:35PM -0700, Dave wrote:
> > > On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 20:20:21 +0100, Terry Hancock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
  who benefits from the publicity
> surrounding this? there's got to be a reason why no calling card was
> left, i.e., the caller has a vested interest in not claiming credit,
> which would tend to suggest a contract job. as to the issue of whether
> the attacker had previous knowledge of the debian servers, only a fool
> wouldn't do everything to acquaint him/herself with the environment
> where they plan to engage in mischief.

In detection, this is the crux,-who benefits.
In this scenario, I believe that it is those who are incapable of surviving within the 
level playing field environment.
The first thing to be compromised in this situation is Debians' reputation for 
security. Has anything else been found? Planted?
If you are incapable of raising your own standard, you lower the reputation of the 
opposition. Thus far, that is the only thing the enemy has achieved. Perhaps that is 
the only thing they were after.
But, we will not assume that. 
> 
> given the regular stream of ridiculous garbage coming from redmond about linux, 
> while new holes are found in their os and apps on an almost weekly basis, this seems 
> like the next stage in the
> campaign to buttress the losses they've been taking all the while linux
> has found favor. apart from the money issue, linux, and particularly debian,
> represents the absolute opposite to their culture. this distro, as a
> product of volunteerism on the part of people who have nothing to gain
> apart from their own satisfaction in making the thing work, represents a
> huge philosophical challenge to those who view the world in terms of how
> much they can extract from it.
> 
> the attacks are, on
> the one hand, a wake-up call, but, on the other, a statement from the
> opposition that proves both the significance and the ascendance of human
> cooperation as a power, with no other incentive in mind than to do the
> best that can be done.

There is another statement here that is actually a positive for Debian.
The action is an admission that the enemy is incapable of competing within the level 
playing field environment.
The negative is that they cannot afford to stop at this stage. They will come again, 
and not necessarily from the same direction.
> 
> on the subject of disclosure of methods, i've been trusting the team for
> almost five years, since i first came across debian. i have no reason
> not to trust them now. i'm amazed at the speed of the recovery, given
> that everything that had to be done was done by folks who do this in
> their spare time. my thanks and respect. debian keeps on rockin'.
> 
> ben
> 
Regards,

David.


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Re: Gentoo compromised too

[David Palmer.]

On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 14:15:50 -0600
John Hasler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Flo writes:
> > But even worse, about the Savannah crack
> 
> Once is happenstance.
> Twice is coincidence.
> Three times is enemy action.
> 
> I suspect that all these attacks are not unrelated.  Someone is out to
> get us.

I've been certain of this for a while.
It's not just the distributions themselves, it's the entire open source
movement.
SCOs' antics are just the face of a takeover bid.
The Royal Bank of Canada financed them for how much? With a Microsoft
executive sitting on the board.
This is not just a few crackers doing it to show their grubby little
mates that they can. Someone's paying them, and paying them well. This
sort of hack is pulled off by someone who really knows his/her stuff.

You watch, The GPL will be invalidated next.
I've been watching the WSIS and other aspects of the complete spectrum
and it's not looking good.
Regards,

David


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Re: Kernel upgrade time

[David Palmer.]

On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 05:10:31 -0800
Tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 06:41:30AM -0600, Hoyt Bailey wrote:
> > 
> > > On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 03:15:06PM -0800, Tom wrote:
> > 
> > Fact: Closer to 5 pints than 5 gallons.
> > 
> > > > gallons of blood.  A swimming pool holds about 25,000 gallons of
> > > > fluid.
> > >
> > > Sorry, I forgot how my story goes: the human body holds about 1
> > > gallon of blood.  It's been 13 years since I told this story much.
> 
> Yeah, I butchered that part of the story.  I wonder if I can still
> find my copy of "Brought to Light".  That and the "Butter Battle Book"
> helped me form my worldview -- I'm fully aware (in quantitative terms)
> of all the murders and evil our side has done, and yet I know at a
> deeper level the guys who did it are on my side and aren't scary.
> 
> I guess if you're not on my side they're scary.
> 
I simply don't understand this concept of 'sides.'
I thought, all being the same species, that we were all on the same
side.
This 'us and them' concept is just a political tool.
Regards,

David.


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Re: Kernel upgrade time

[David Palmer.]

On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 04:29:04 -0800
Tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 07:16:48PM +0800, David Palmer. wrote:
> > Tommy boy, you haven't got what it takes to screw with my head.
> 
> Okay.  Just out of curiousity, are you older or younger than 30: those
> 
> of us older can remember what the world was like when we were all
> pretty sure the nukes were gonna fall on Tuesday.
> 
> That's why .au had so much internet first: y'all were gonna be the 
> rallying point for our subs, after all of Amerika was burnt up.

I'm over fifty, and we are O.T.
We take this off-list, or we stop it here.
I don't mind a bit of social chat, but I don't want Debian-user used.
Regards,

David.


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Re: Kernel upgrade time

[David Palmer.]

On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 23:09:44 -0800
Tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 12:46:06PM +0800, David Palmer. wrote:
> > 
> > I don't know what you are talking about.
> 
> I'm fucking with your head by appearing to argue with you while offering 
> arguments that bolster what you believe :-)
> 
> Bizarre, ain't it?
> 
Tommy boy, you haven't got what it takes to screw with my head.
Regards,

David.


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Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)

[David Palmer.]

On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 23:01:13 -0800
Tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 12:53:29PM +0800, David Palmer. wrote:
> 
> > Two parties, sharing power, no difference between the two other than
> > name.
> 
> I used to be like that, all mad at everybody.  The internal assumption
> 
> that validates it to yourself is "I could do it much better, if
> only..."
> 
> Once I had a few experiences I have a lot more sympathies for 
> politicians.  They're doing the best they can with an absurd
> situation. 
> 
> You can't underestimate just how random the combined opinions of 
> thousands of people with every viewpoint under the sun are.  I know
> *I* couldn't do any better.
> 
> 
I'm not mad at anyone.
If there is a form of arrogance that displays a lack of experience, it's
analysis at a distance.
Put all politicians on a wage of $500.00/week, and make it a capital
offense to take a political bribe, and you would get the ones that want
to do the job for the right reasons.
Regards,

David.


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Re: Kernel upgrade time

[David Palmer.]

On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 15:15:06 -0800
Tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 06:54:54AM +0800, David Palmer. wrote:
> 
> > This is just the manifestation of a career CIA mentality torturing
> > itself.
> 
> George H.W. Bush was CIA director under Gerald Ford.  Rummey was 
> Secretary of defense.  This was after Watergate and all the old CIA guys 
> got fired.
> 
> By the way, those guys then formed "The Company" and started getting 
> funding for blackops by smuggling cocaine in through South America.  
> That's how we got involved in Central America in the 1980's, and it's 
> the primary reason coke was so popular (ironic, since Pepsi was at that 
> time a front company for the CIA).
> 
> Richard Nixon was a lawyer for the Pepsi-cola company and flew out of 
> Dallas as a lawyer for Pepsi the day Kennedy was shot.  Before the CIA 
> switched to pushing cocaine, their primary source of income was Heroin, 
> shipped into Miami via the Mafia.  We flew rice into Laos during the 
> Vietman war so the farmers could free up their land to grow poppies.  
> The opium was refined into heroin at a Pepsi plant in Laos, and then 
> into Miami.
> 
> The primary purpose of blackops funding was assisnating Eastern european 
> leaders and various murderous acts.  The human body holds about five 
> gallons of blood.  A swimming pool holds about 25,000 gallons of fluid.  
> Most of our coups and overthrows were small, just one or two swimming 
> pools.  Some of the things we did filled up a dozen pools (mostly in 
> Southeast Asia).
> 
> All of this came out during the Iran-Contra hearings in the 1980s and 
> was documented in the graphic novel "Brought To Light" by Alan Moore, of 
> Watchmen and Miracleman fame.
> 
> If you're going to bitch, don't be boring.

I don't know what you are talking about.
I'm having a conversation, you need a competition.
Grow up on your own time.
Regards,

David.


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Mimail-L

[David Palmer.]

Hello,

I have just received a copy of the new variant of the Mimail worm.
Would anyone like a free sample?
As new condition.
I haven't even clicked the attachment.
Going cheap.
Information on the Sophos website concerning the followup message if you
don't reply to the initial one.
Have copied and pasted the main message in all its' intellectual glory
below:-

Hi Greg its Wendy. 
 
I was shocked, when I found out that it wasn't you but
your twin brother, that's amazing, you're as like as two 
peas. No
one in  bed is better than you Greg. I remember, I remember 
everything 
very well, that promised you to tell how it was, I'll
give you a call today after 9. He took my skirt off, then my
panties, then my bra, he sucked my tits, with the same fury 
you do it.
He was writing alphabet on my pussy for 20 minutes, then 
suddenly 
stopped, put me in doggy style position and stuck his
dagger.But Greg, why didn't you warn me that his dick is 15
inches long? I was struck, we fucked whole night. I'm so
thankful to you, for acquainted me to your brother. I think 
we can do it on 
the next Saturday all three together? What do you think? O 
yes, 
as you wanted I've made a few pictures check them out in 
archive, I hope they will excite you, and you will dream
of our new meeting...

application/x-msdownload attachment (wendy.exe)


Regards,

David.


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Re: Kernel upgrade time

[David Palmer.]

On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 00:19:08 +0100
Andreas von Heydwolff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Tom wrote:
> 
> > Let's see, what's something I know but I don't know that I know?
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> An archetype before it becomes conscious.
> 
> 
> 
> -- AvH
> 
You think there might be one lurking in there somewhere?
Regards,

David.


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Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)

[David Palmer.]

On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:14:24 -0700
"Monique Y. Herman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 at 20:04 GMT, Tom penned:
> > On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 07:12:33AM -0500, Paul Morgan wrote:
> >> 
> >> And everyone seems to SHOUT on Fox.
> > 
> > I like it when we take turns.  I hope the left will play nice on the
> > playground and accept that we're alternating decades.  They had a
> > nice long run with Clinton following a nice long run with Reagan. 
> > It would be rude not to let the right have a nice long turn.
> > 
> > I will be vehemently against the left in this election but in 2008
> > it will be their turn again, *if* they can exhibit the patience and
> > maturity.  It will be so lovely if we play nice with each other and
> > take nice turns.
> > 
> 
> I tend to think that the reason you're okay with the right and the
> left taking turns is that, for the most part, the politicians on both
> sides are nothing but center.  I'm sick of republicrats and
> democricans alike.
> 
> -- 
> monique "two-party systems suck"
> 
That's right.
It's all a game.
Two parties, sharing power, no difference between the two other than
name.
Regards,

David.


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Re: Kernel upgrade time

[David Palmer.]

On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:57:07 -0800
Tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 06:35:05AM -0600, Hoyt Bailey wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 03:00:13PM -0500, Paul Morgan wrote:
> > > >> "Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always
> > > >interesting> to me, because as we know, there are known knowns;
> > > >there are things we> know we know.  We also know there are known
> > > >unknowns; that is to say we> know there are some things we do not
> > > >know. But there are also unknown> unknowns - the ones we don't
> > > >know we don't know.">
> > > >> - Donald Rumsfeld, US Secretary of Defense, Winner of British
> > > >Plain>   English Campaign's 2003 "Foot in Mouth" award.
> > > >
> > > > Why doesn't this statement make sense?
> > > >
> > It does but he left out another term
> > unknowable unknowns = sq. root of your encripted password in a base
> > 100 system.
> > Hoyt
> 
> Actually for symmetry I was looking for the unknown knowns :-)  He 
> covered the other three combinations.
> 
> Let's see, what's something I know but I don't know that I know?
> 
> 
> 
There is nothing obscure here.
This is just the manifestation of a career CIA mentality torturing
itself.
Regards,

David.


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Re: EXT3 File system recovery

[David Palmer.]

On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:58:37 -0500
"Matthew Kopishke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi All,
> 
> I am in desperate need of help.  I had two 60gb disks running in a
> RAID 1 using a Promise FastTrack IDE RAID card and the linux ATARaid
> support with a EXT3 FS (2.4.18).  Over the weekend, as far as I can
> tell, one of the drive died (it just clicks now) so the file system
> went read only and there it sat for a day.  My boss tried to restart
> the machine, and eventually must have done a hard reset.  When I got
> it the machine was stuck trying to do a fsck on the file system.
> 
> I pulled the dead drive and stuck the "good" one on a plain IDE
> channel, started off a CD and was able to mount the drive, look at a
> few files, and at that point I was pretty confident in the drive so I
> installed lilo with with the new device name and rebooted (no RAID). 
> The machine came up, started to do a fsck, and then said there were
> read errors.  I restarted off the CD and now I can't mount the file
> system.  I tried a fsdebug but it couldn't read the partition. I don't
> know what to do, I'm quite stuck.  This wouldn't be to much of an
> issue but the backup failed and I'm stuck sitting here with out my
> data from the database (mysql).
> 
> Can some one point in any direction?
> 
> (Oh, and I did try the "clunky" drive again as well)
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> Matt

I'm just a newbie, Matt, and I'm sure you will get more qualified
opinions coming your way from people on the list.
A once off cure, long enough to obtain a copy of the drive goes like
this:-
Stick the drive in a freezer for 15 - 30 minutes, reinstall and copy.

I have never done it myself, but on another list some years ago this was
suggested, and it was endorsed by a couple of other list members. There
was an explanation, but I can't remember what it was now.
Save it as a last resort anyway.
Regards,

David


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Re: RFC: Create d-user-woody, d-user-sarge maillists, deactivate d-user

[David Palmer.]

On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 02:28:52 -0800
"Hereon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Request For Comment on:
>   Enhancing the Debian mailing lists by:
>   Creating debian-user-woody and debian-user-sarge mailing lists,
>   and deactivating debian-user.
> 
And the people running mixed systems?
I'm running stable and sarge.

I see no reason to get rid of debian-user. At present it doesn't appear,
according to my perception at any rate, to be bursting at the seams.
It has the potential, as I have stated in an earlier posting, to grow
out of proportion as a result of Red Hats' policy change, and greater
debian acceptance on the part of the general public due to the new
debian installer and the anaconda facility. But as yet, that has not
occurred.

If it was to do so, I would recommend the formation of new mailing lists
based on the format of subject type, e.g., a debian-mail list dealing
with associated subject matter, e.g., spamassassin, and clamav, and/or a
debian-networking list, as these two factors provide the majority of the
load upon debian-user at present. But with 13000+ packages (I think it
is), I believe that there will still be a definite requirement for
debian-user and the flexible, general nature that it provides, caters
for, and why it was created in the first place. Debian-user is an
institution for a reason.

But I have been known to be wrong in the past, and I may well be wrong
now. Let's see what everybody else thinks.
Regards,

David. 


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Re: Slasdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)

[David Palmer.]

On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 15:01:22 -0800
"Karsten M. Self" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> on Sat, Nov 29, 2003 at 09:53:37PM -0700, Monique Y. Herman
> ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 at 03:22 GMT, John Hasler penned:
> > > Monique wrote:
> > >> The difference is that, by allowing replies to accumulate and
> > >reading> them filtered to +3, you have a decent chance of finding
> > >out when a> submission was likely off-base.
> > > 
> > > That's what I meant by corrections.  Whenever Slashdot screws up I
> > > can be fairly certain that several of its thousands of
> > > knowledgeable readers will gleefully point out the error.
> > 
> > Agreed.  But I wanted to be clear, both to you and to everyone else,
> > that slashdot's front page is *not* in any way guaranteed to be
> > accurate.  Taking any of their blurbs at face value tends to make an
> > ass out of you ...
> 
> The blurbs are written by the article submitter, and (generally) not
> Slashdot's editors.
> 
> The submitter may be wrong, misinformed, biased, or have an axe to
> grind.  Or not.
> 
> The "mainstream" media have gross factual errors in about 30-50% of
> stories.  Without, as noted here, the instant feedback offered by
> Slashdot and other online sites.
> 
The mainstream media also have an extremely high 'tame' factor.
The political strategy is always involved with maintaining a common
doctrine so as to maintain a population mass proceeding in what is
perceived as a 'common productive direction', for example.
This is a marketable commodity.
It is also a path that diverges from that of the honest one.
There are reasons why, for example, that journalists in warzones have
their stories 'vetted' before they are approved for release to the
outside world.
Regards,

David.


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Re: recommended Virus Scanner?

[David Palmer.]

On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 22:06:54 -0800
Tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 27, 2003 at 09:33:45PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote:
> > On Wed, Nov 26, 2003 at 11:57:26PM -0500, ScruLoose wrote:
> > > I've gotta say that md5-encrypted shadow passwords, chkrootkit, 
> > > integrit, SYN cookies, iptables, etc. don't really look like the
> > > products of a "can't happen here" mentality.
> > 
> > On the contrary, it's lessons learned quickly combined with the kind
> > of paranoia that the tinfoil-hat crowd would be proud of.  Unix
> > geeks(BSD geeks in particular) seem to take "It's not paranoia if
> > everybody really is after you" to heart and applies it.
> 
> One more comment before I drop the thread:
> 
> The problem isn't mitigating what you know about.
> 
> The problem is you don't know what you don't know.  And the enemy
> always gets a vote on the battlefield :-)
> 
> That said, certainly nothing wrong with the efforts so far...  I just 
> personally don't believe they will prove sufficient once all of
> Eastern Europe begins to focus its efforts on hassling you :-)
> 
Eastern Europe!!??

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/metasystems/BigBrother.html

About halfway down that link you will come across an article entitled,
'Microsoft et Intel.' For those that have no grasp of the French
language, here's an adequate translation:-

'The prize for being Electronic Big Brother goes, incontestably, to
Microsoft, with its Windows system and Internet Explorer, which contain
a user identification number, the GUID. This number is then written to
all documents created with Microsoft Office. It may also be consulted by
internet because of commands embedded by Microsoft.
SUMMARY: The Global Unique Identifier in Windows and in IE is a Back
Door.

Hidden commands in Windows and IE, which in turn integrate other hidden
commands, permit MS (and govts) to scan users' disks..., without the
user's knowledge, while the user is connected to the internet. Microsoft
admits to this possibility.

According to a report realized in 1999 for the French Department of
defense, Microsoft and American Information Services (CIA et al), and
members of the National Security Agency work with Microsoft coders. This
report also gave examples of "back-Doors" included, (or rather
"embedded") in Microsoft software.

Intel has placed an ID number that may be consulted at a distance by
interested parties in their PIII (now VI) and XEON chips.

The solution::: use a Mac or a Linux system, and surf with anything but
Internet Explorer.'

The Age is a reputable newspaper:-

https://www.politrix.org/foia/nsa/nsa-ms-spy.htm

NOW, PLEASE UNDERSTAND, I am not in the least interested in starting off
another O.T. topic unless it's within the curiosa environment.
But Eastern Europe!, that one belongs in the days of the cold war.
The latest translation of 50s McCarthyism is the 'Terrorist' campaign.
Stick with the fashion, if you don't want to admit to reality.
Regards,

David.


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Re: OT, proper phone wire question?/Twists & Guage ?

[David Palmer.]

On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:30:00 -0500
lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Tuesday 18 November 2003 15:36, Derrick 'dman' Hudson wrote:
> >
> > Why are twists so important and why do the faster technologies need
> > more twists in the cable?  As an electric signal varies along a pair
> > of wires, a magnetic field around the wires is created and then
> > collapses.  This field will induce a current in another wire that
> > passes through the field.  That induced current is "noise", because
> > it intereferes with the electric current (signal) that is
> > intentially being sent over that wire.  Twisting the wires reduces
> > the size of the generated magnetic field, and also reduces the
> > cable's ability to pick up a signal from a nearby magnetic field.
> >
> > For voice-grade telephone, no twists are needed most of the time. 
> > For better signalling and less noise, get more twists.  Using Cat 0
> > or Cat 3 should be fine, but the Cat 3 will cost more money.  You
> > *may* have noise problems with Cat 0 which will hurt your ability to
> > connect, maintain a connection, and will limit transfer rates. 
> > Basically "more is better" when it comes to twists, but also "more
> > costs more".  It's up to you to find the desired
> > return-on-investment for cable quality.
> >
> > HTH,
> > -D
> 
> Thank you very much for the discussion on twists, I have a
> question..what about actual wire size..cat 3 and 5 are usually 22 or
> 24 guage..suppose one was to use say 18 guage speaker wire..it's
> twisted(like cat), it's unshielded(like cat)..but a bit larger..less
> resistance is my thinking..where am i wrong here..not enuff twists
> perhaps?
> 
> Thank you all very very much for your time..
> 
> Lee
> 
Good thinking.
In legal building standards for example, the standards specified are
'minimum required without having to go to jail.'
Going up one more guage in wire size does indeed reduce resistance and
associated energy waste in heat given off, and allows the maximum amount
of energy to arrive at the appliance concerned, with the associated
economic factor. There's the greater initial cost which concerns the
short-sighted initially, but cost savings over the longer term which
soon recoup the initial investment, and mean money in the bank
thereafter for those that are capable of thinking beyond the trapezium.
Regards,

David.


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Re: recommended Virus Scanner?

[David Palmer.]

On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 06:57:18 -0800
Tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 27, 2003 at 05:39:05AM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the excellent answers.
> 
> > ...you don't need to worry about viruses for GNU/Linux.
> 
> >GNU/Linux has a security profile.  It's generally markedly
> >different from legacy MS Windows.
> 
> >I don't think viruses and worms, as
> >commonly defined, will characterize the problem.
> 
> > There are few attacks on GNU/Linux, *BSD, or proprietary unices
> > which are of the "world comes to an end" variety.
> 
> > They will likely be
> > largely localized (affecting a subset of users and systems)
> 
> I have a friend who is 1000 times smarter about Unix than me, and he
> has told me the whole history of Sendmail exploits, Bind exploits, and
> 
> horriblly crufty design decisions and gaffs and el crapo code all 
> throughout the history of Unix.  His personal opinion is that Linux is
> a mere distraction written by amateurs; FreeBSD is closer to the
> ideal.
> 
> I'm not advocating his belief, it's just that (1) the history of Unix
> as a cracker proof platform is not true; (2) most of the professional
> Unix community views Linux as a largely amateurish attempt relative to
> their "heavy duty code", and (3) we're all human.
> 
> I believe all of your statements I snipped are destined to be crow one
> 
> day we will all eat.
> 
> However, I think your professionalism and exhaustiveness in answering
> my questions is absolutely admirable, absolutely the correct way to
> be, and absolutely the best philsophy we can have to "do the best we
> can."
> 
> 
Hello Tom,

With all due respect to your friend, if he knew what he was talking
about regarding Unix security, he wouldn't be using Free, he'd be using
Open.
Regards,

David.


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Re: Modems-dialup.

[David Palmer.]

On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 13:51:22 +
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> 
> >Hi folks..
> >apologies getting off topic a bit but really would like to hear
> >everyone's opinion if there's particular modem that stands above and
> >beyond the rest..sort of like say a Courier modem would for dial-up.
> >If I go with Alltel's choice it'll be a Slipstream 5200 most
> >likely..which hopefuly will be free..with a years contract of
> >course..irreguardless of what they provide, seriously considering a
> >backup(could use one RIGHT NOW).. Thank you all very much for your
> >time.. Lee
> 
Hello Lee,

These are the best modems in the world:-

http://www.maestro.com.au/special%20modems.htm

I've had one for three years, and the only time I've had a dropped
connection is when the I.S.P. has dropped it. Fully Linux compatible
with a 56K Rockwell chip.
Failing that the Netcomm Roadster wasn't too bad, from memory.
Regards,

David.


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Re: Learning debian Linux

[David Palmer.]

On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:33:04 -0700
"Monique Y. Herman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 at 10:10 GMT, David Palmer. penned:
> > On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 21:00:00 +0100 "John L. Fjellstad"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
> >> 
> >> On Thursday 20 November 2003 22:27, David Palmer. wrote:
> >> 
> >> David Palmer? As in President David Palmer? What are you doing in
> >> Australia?;-)
> >> 
> >> > I am a Linux Newbie.  I checked out Red Hat 8, Mandrake 9, and
> >> > Libranet is the best Linux Newbie distro.
> >> 
> >> I don't know. I can't really recommend a distro I never tried.
> >> 
> > Who's President David Palmer?  Has someone got my job?  Regards,
> > 
> > David.
> > 
> 
> Have you ever seen the Fox tv series 24?
> 
No.
The only time I watch T.V. is when the All Blacks are playing.
Regards,

David.


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Re: kernel 2.6

[David Palmer.]

On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:24:02 -0500
Paul Morgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Tom Allison wrote:
> 
> > Is there a test package of kernel-image-2.6 ??
> >
> > I thought I read once there was, but the search engine is down right 
> > now on the debian site.
> >
> >
> 
> apt-cache search kernel-image|grep "2.6"
> 
> kernel-image-2.6.0-test9-1-386 - Linux kernel image for version 
> 2.6.0-test9 on 386.
> kernel-source-2.6.0-test9 - Linux kernel source for version 2.6.0-test9 
> with Debian patches
> 
Test 10 is out now.
Regards,

David.


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Debian Community Security, was Re: recommended Virus Scanner?

[David Palmer.]

On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 00:07:05 -0800
Tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > Paul Johnson wrote:
> > >Non-issue if you don't use Windows.
> 
> This is totally piling on, but given this recent security compromise,
> I think the whole Linux community needs to reevaluate its "can't
> happen here" mentality.  I don't care if its social engineering or
> I-Love-You, if the world comes to an end, that's A Bad Thing.
> 
> It's only going to get worse as Linux gets more popular.  There were 
> dozens of Microsoft disasters before the mainstream press and the 
> general public noticed.  Linux is long overdue for a major security 
> black eye.  It's going to suck when it happens.
> 
> I think all Linux devs, from Linus on down, need to stop and think
> very seriously about what can be done to preemptively mitigate the
> inevitable embarressments which are sure to come (soon).
> 
Agreed.
It's not just SCO and M$ that are potential invaders (Microsoft
personnel were turning up at the KDE stand at COMDEX asking lots of
questions, and were very interested, apparently), we now have corporate
enterprise moving in on the linux market, why do they need to have a
large developer payroll when they have the entire Debian community to do
the job for them? All they have to do is crack the Debian servers at the
right time and their work has been done for them. 

Novell is offering financial enticement, depending on the project, up to
$2500.00 for moving the Gaim buddy list over to Evolution, so they are
obviously going after the desktop market, and the competition factor is
going to be up there.

What I'm trying to say is that there are more than a few crackers doing
it because they can, Linux is getting a commercial aspect and
recognition to the point where entire countries are switching to Open
Source, commercial distros are getting frightened, and fear breeds
aggression, and that means changes that we are better finding hacks to
compensate for before they occur.

We also need to perhaps tighten up within the mail list community. Just
being aware is a good start, look for a lot of noise combined with
experience. Increase security in the form of layers the further into the
community somebody gets. I'm not just talking about key signing, If you
know your way around the street, I.D. is easily faked.
Debian has a name for security, our servers could have been compromised
for no other reason than to destroy that reputation, but we have earned
that name because we have the abilities to create a secure programme.
Perhaps if we looked on the community as a programme, and applied
security measures according to that viewpoint?
Thoughts?
Regards,

David.



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Re: Anaconda, where's the beef?

[David Palmer.]

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 14:11:01 -0500
Fraser Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Saturday 15 November 2003 07:00, David Palmer. wrote:
> 
> > I don't know why we have to go to Red Hat for something that Debian
> > requires.
> 
> My reason for being interested in anaconda-debian is kickstart, that's
> the entire reason, the only reason.
> 
> I agree that debian-installer is the way to go for a normal Debian
> install and I have done several test installs with it over the past 6
> months.  However, AFAIK debian-installer still doesn't support
> unattended installs (or perhaps they just aren't documented?).
> 
> I can understand progeny's reasons for doing the anaconda port
> somewhat but I don't see why they wouldn't have been better served by
> helped d-i and then getting it ported to work with redhat.  All
> questions aside, the anaconda port was apparently done and the work
> does sound useful as a stop-gap measure.
> 
Hello Fraser,

A package directory search for kickstart is somewhat pointless at the
moment, but I believe I have seen some reference to a Debian package of
that name on this list at some stage.
Regards,

David.


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Re: Learning debian Linux

[David Palmer.]

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 21:00:00 +0100
"John L. Fjellstad" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On Thursday 20 November 2003 22:27, David Palmer. wrote:
> 
> David Palmer? As in President David Palmer? What are you doing in 
> Australia?;-)
> 
> > I am a Linux Newbie.
> > I checked out Red Hat 8, Mandrake 9, and Libranet is the best Linux
> > Newbie distro.
> 
> I don't know. I can't really recommend a distro I never tried.
> 
Who's President David Palmer?
Has someone got my job?
Regards,

David.


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Re: test

[David Palmer.]

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 19:01:15 -0500
Alexander Winston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Mon, 2003-11-24 at 18:45, iain d broadfoot wrote:
> > Hmm, is lists.d.o up again?
> 
> Apparently so, but it seems that debian-user is the only active mailing
> list.
> 

No, I'm getting AMD64, also.
Regards,

David.


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Re: *plonk* Re: Code of Conduct (was Re: Totally [OT] Re: Opium)

[David Palmer.]

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:24:16 +
ben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 20:50:09 -0800
> "Karsten M. Self" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > on Wed, Nov 19, 2003 at 04:49:14AM +, ben ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> > wrote:
> > > On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:23:48 +0800
> > > csj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:54:17 -0800,
> > > > Karsten M. Self wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > on Tue, Nov 18, 2003 at 09:19:48AM +0800, csj ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:48:14 -0800,
> > > > > > Karsten M. Self wrote:
> > > > > > 
Karsten and Colin are two completely different individuals, their
approach to a situation is therefore also going to be individually
different.
It's not up to either of them to be 'moderators' and I'm sure that
neither of them wanted to be. But nevertheless, that was the position
that the rest of us forced them into.

There was a thread that had nothing to do with Debian extending into
hundreds of postings. I am sure that nobody resents a little social
interaction, but when it interferes with the central function of the
list, that is when it has to cease or find a new environment. Debian
comes first, it's as simple as that. This is why this list was
established. If we have individuals here who feel a requirement to
totally usurp the situation for their own personal needs, then obviously
they are in the wrong place.

With two individuals in a situation, one personality does not
predominate, there is an interaction involved. One factor is Karstens'
manner, but the other is your perception of it. The vocal personalities
involved at the moment, have a completely different reaction to Karsten
than I do. I don't mind a bit of straight talk. As far as I'm concerned
there isn't enough of it in the world, and considering that there were
more than 'one and a half' personalities still involved in the situation
after Colins' request for 'moderation', perhaps there is a place for a
manner that has the ability to cut through in situations of persistent
idiocy. I'm not saying that the thread didn't have some excellent
material, I'm saying that it had deteriorated, as I have said in a
previous post, into a load of drivel.

I got an email from Karsten, not the first one I've received from him
either, but I didn't feel challenged by it. I woke up, wandered out,
half asleep, clicked on send/receive, and Karstens' fist leapt out of
the screen and smashed me in the face. It woke me up, set me up for the
day.

This world is full of different kinds of people, that's one of the many
interesting aspects of it. Leave Karsten alone. He's got his own kind of
value.

Don't worry Karsten, you've got back-up.
Regards,

David. 


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Re: README What up with www.debian.org ?

[David Palmer.]

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 05:09:13 -0500
Roberto Sanchez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Paul William wrote:
> > On Fri, 2003-11-21 at 19:54, Jerome BENOIT wrote:
> > 
> >>Hello All,
> >>
> >>What happens to www.debian.org ?
> > 
> > 
> > Seems to be down but http://debian.org/ is working. This means it
> > is, IMHO, *probably* a DNS problem 
> 
>   $ ping -c 2 debian.org
> PING debian.org (141.76.2.5): 56 data bytes
> 
> $ ping -c 2 www.de.debian.org
> PING www.de.debian.org (141.76.2.5): 56 data bytes
> 
> It looks like a problem, since that appears to be a fail-over to the
> German mirror.  However, I could be wrong as it is 0500L here and I am
> speaking out of my posterior :-)
> 
> -Roberto
> 
Considering SCO, etc., and the recent backdoor discovery in the kernel
programme, if this is a hoax, I want the name of the guy that pulled it
so that if I ever meet him in the street, that's where I'll leave him.
Regards,

David.


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Re: evolution usability (somewhat OT)

[David Palmer.]

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 00:27:54 -0800
Erik Steffl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Thu, 2003-11-20 at 22:50, David Palmer. wrote:
> > On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:58:24 -0800
> > Erik Steffl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > >(unstable debian, evolution)
> > > 
> > >I find evolution to be fairly nice MUA but:
> > > 
> > >- is there a way for it to move deleted mails to trash?
> > > 
> > >- is there a way for it not to show deleted emails (it shows
> > >them 
> > > striked out)
> > > 
> > >- is there a way to go to next unread mail, even if it happens
> > >to be 
> > > in next folder (']' goes to next unread email in current folder)
> > > 
> > >tia
> > > 
> > >   erik
> > > 
> > Hello Erik,
> > 
> > Go to the 'view' menu, and click 'hide deleted messages.'
> > That will solve your first two points.
> 
>   they don't seem to go to trash (I would like the emails from IMAP
> server go to trash on the same server, just like it can be set in
> mozilla)
> 
> > I'm not sure what you mean exactly, on the third point.
> 
>   let's say I have new messages in inbox and in debian-user folders.
>   So
> I go to inbox and view the messages, ']' goes to next unread message.
> After I read the last message in inbox I would like to go to the next
> unread message in debian-user folder, unfortunately ']' doesn't do it
> and I didn't find any shortcut/menu item that would do that (compare
> to mozilla that asks whether I want to go to the next unread message
> in debian-user folder).
> 
>   erik
> 
Someone else will have to help you with that one, it goes beyond what I
know.
I'll be keeping an eye on the thread, though, because I wouldn't mind
knowing how to do that myself. Someone will help, they're pretty good
here, so don't give up on it.
Regards,

David.


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Re: evolution usability (somewhat OT)

[David Palmer.]

On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:58:24 -0800
Erik Steffl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>(unstable debian, evolution)
> 
>I find evolution to be fairly nice MUA but:
> 
>- is there a way for it to move deleted mails to trash?
> 
>- is there a way for it not to show deleted emails (it shows them 
> striked out)
> 
>- is there a way to go to next unread mail, even if it happens to
>be 
> in next folder (']' goes to next unread email in current folder)
> 
>tia
> 
>   erik
> 
Hello Erik,

Go to the 'view' menu, and click 'hide deleted messages.'
That will solve your first two points.
I'm not sure what you mean exactly, on the third point.
Regards,

David.


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Re: Learning debian Linux

[David Palmer.]

On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 19:36:34 +0100
"John L. Fjellstad" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On Thursday 20 November 2003 16:51, Stephen wrote:
> 
> > What's with you? I mean, Debian because of the text installer may be
> > a little intimidating, but it's not /that hard/. 
> 
> It is hard, and it has nothing to do with the installer being text
> based (Redhat installer was still more or less text based when I moved
> to Debian).  Some of the wordings are weird or more frightning than
> necessary (if I remember correctly, the choice of modules come with a
> warning about your system might get damaged if you pick the wrong
> moduel... with no help with which module your hardware might need). 
> dselect is a piece of crap when it comes to userfriendliness.
> 
> > Instead of
> > recommending a different distro, why not be a good Debian advocate,
> > and recommend Debian based distros specifically meant for the
> > desktop/home user,  Libranet? 
> 
> To a Linuxnewbie, isn't it better to be a good Linux advocate?
> 
I am a Linux Newbie.
I checked out Red Hat 8, Mandrake 9, and Libranet is the best Linux
Newbie distro.
Regards,

David.


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Re: Procmail virus recipies (was Re: Mimail Virus.)

[David Palmer.]

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:58:05 -0800
"Karsten M. Self" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> on Wed, Nov 19, 2003 at 06:42:40AM +0800, David Palmer ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > Hello,
> > 
> > Just saw this in Eweek, so I thought that I would forward it to the
> > list.
> > 
> > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1383915,00.asp
> 
> Since nobody in their right mind whom I don't already know would send me
> a MSFT executable, procmail rules...
> 
> "chkmail" comes from the 'spamfilter' package.
> 
> Two methods.  Take your pick.
> 
> 
> By MIME-encoded signature:
> 
> 
> # Win32 executables (viruses and any other attachment)
> # Wed Sep 24 21:09:03 BST 2003
> :0 B
> * ^Content-Transfer-Encoding:.*base64
> * ^TVqQAAME//8AALg
> * 4fug4AtAnNIbg
> {
> LOG="LOG: [virus: win32 exe] "
> 
> :0
> Virus/
> }
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By extension:
> 
> 
> WINDOWS_EXECUTABLE_EXT="(ADE|ADP|BAS|BAT|CHM|CMD|COM|CPL|CRT|DLL|DLL|DO.|EXE|HLP
> |HTA|INF|INS|ISP|JS|JSE|LNK|MDB|MDE|MSC|MSI|MSP|MST|OCX|OCX|PCD|PIF|POT|PPT|REG|
> SCR|SCT|SHB|SHS|SYS|SYS|URL|VB|VBE|VBS|WSC|WSF|WSH|XL.)"
> 
> 
> :0B
> * ^Content-Type: .*; name=.*\.$WINDOWS_EXECUTABLE_EXT['"]*
> {
> 
> :0c
> | ! chkmail --header "From|Sender" $WHITELIST
> 
> :0a
> {   
> LOG="LOG: (Virus!: MSFT executable"
> 
> # Train spamassassin
> :0c
> | sa-learn --spam --single
> 
> :0:
> Virus/
> 
> }
> 
> 
> 
> Peace.
> 
Thankyou.
Regards,

David.

http://www.ctheory.net/text_file.asp?pick=402


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Re: (no subject)

[David Palmer.]

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:33:53 EST
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> HELLO THERE 
> 
>   IM WONDERING IF YOU COULD E-MAIL ME YOUR DRIVER
>   FOR 
> WINDOWS 
> XP???
> ?
> ??
> 
> 
It is the considered opinion of the people on this list that there is no
driver for XP. They forgot to include it in the original package, and
they don't have the technological expertise to rectify the problem.
Regards,

David.


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Re: epson

[David Palmer.]

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:51:06 +0100
steef <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> The black ink on my epson 870 does not print.  The colors print.
> I have run the nozzle check, etc., several times and it still doesn't
> print. I have a new black cartridge and it still doesn't print in
> black.
> 
> Can anyone help?
> Thanks
> Karen
> 
> under window$$ epson printers show a box in which tou can switch from
> colours to black. maybe onder linux_debian too? no harm done to give
> it a try.
> 
> steef
> 
> 
What print programme are you running?
There should be a configuration there that will assist.
Google for the website of the programme concerned, and there will be
forum assistance there also, but being Epson, you should be having no
trouble with Linux.
Without specifics, it makes it a little hard to help you.
Regards,

David.


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Re: Scripting Manuals

[David Palmer.]

On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 16:47:39 -0800
shawn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 18, 2003 at 06:15:30PM -0600, Anil Gupte wrote:
> > Where can I find some good scripting manuals that will teach me (a newbie)
> > to write bash shell scripts?
>   the advanced bash scripting guide (assumes no previous
>   scripting experience).
>   http://www.tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/index.html
> 
>   shawn galvin
>   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
Do a Google search on 'bash-doc' also
Regards,

David.


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Disc Systems.

[David Palmer.]

Hello,

I've mentioned this one before, but I've just come across the link
again, so I thought I would forward it to the list for those that may be
interested in this sort of thing.

http://www.gnoppix.org/

Regards,

David.



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Re: ISP and DNS port scanning!

[David Palmer.]

On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:50:02 +
Antony Gelberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 18, 2003 at 03:43:15PM -0600, Rthoreau wrote:
> > Hello:  fellow Debian users
> > 
> > I was going over my router logs and noticed that I am getting port
> > scanned from my ISP, this has been happening for a while but I
> > haven't had the time to look into it untill now.  I did a basic
> > whois on the IP address and they show that it is my ISP, the
> > destination is a DNS server that belongs to my ISP.
> > 
> 
> Looks like a ping (ICMP type 8).  Where do you get port scanning from?
> FWIW, I think that blocking pings via a firewall isn't recommended,
> but not sure why.
> 
> A

You also get helpstaff at ISPs keeping you talking on line, while they
play games because they've learnt a little bit, and are bored out of
their skulls.
This has happened to me. He let too much slip in the conversation while
he was playing. Script kiddies.
Regards,

David.


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Re: A idea for newbies.

[David Palmer.]

On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:39:03 -0600
"Hoyt Bailey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> If you have a machine that is newer than "Woody" you may run into
> difficulties that you cant solve.  This list is a great help but it
> takes time.  After spending a couple of weeks resolving X wont boot
> and Modem wont work I must admit to being flustered
> I spent 36 hours (approx) downloading libranet classic 2.7. 
> Transfered the iso to CD and booted.  Outside of having to configure
> PPP(it didnt know my name, or my ISP, or its phone #).  The system
> worked.   I did in two days what I couldnt do it 2 weeks.
> The system isnt perfect but I'm a lot closer now than I was.
> Just an idea if you think it might work for you.
> Regards;
> Hoyt
> 
I started off that way. I bought the discs for Libranet 2.0 originally,
and then 2.8.1., and it has been a great way to familiarize myself with
'surface' Debian. There is one hiccup though, depending on which way you
want to go. You can tie yourself up for ever becoming familiar with this
app, and that one, and there are thousands of them. If that's all you
want, great. If not, it can distract you from breaking through the GUI
and getting your hands dirty.

How I am using the situation now is retaining Libranet as a main system,
online so that I have uninterrupted access to docs, and doing up a
couple of Fujitech 486 desktop units that I got for nothing, one as a
standalone firewall (Bastille, to learn about firewalls), and the other
as a mail server to learn about mail programmes and spamassassin,
clamav, etc., and build-up and learn about networking that way.

2.7 is a good system, and with selective apt-getting/removing you can
get an even better one. Yes, Libranet is a great way to go for Newbies.
Regards, 

David.


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Mimail Virus.

[David Palmer]

Hello,

Just saw this in Eweek, so I thought that I would forward it to the
list.

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1383915,00.asp

Regards,

David.


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Re: Problems partioning XP disk

[David Palmer.]

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 20:05:58 -0500
"Eric Dickner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hello All.
> 
> Starting right off the bat in the set of instructions for installing on an
> existing disk running Windows I have a problem.  Section 3.6.1.1 tells you
> to create a bootable floppy with the "sys a:" command, something that I have
> done in the past on older versions of Windows but apparently does not work
> now:
> 
> C:\>sys a:
> 'sys' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
> operable program or batch file.
> 
> Using an older system disk made in the past with the "fips" tool on it,
> again as section 3.6.1.1 tells you to do, will not work either; the system
> will not boot into DOS.  XP has a disk management tool of its own but I
> don't trust it.  For one thing it tells me that the size of my disk is the
> amount that is filled an that I have zero free bytes  I don't want any
> part of it.
> 
> What do we do for a "lossless" XP install?
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Eric Dickner
> 
> 
What are you actually trying to do?
Install Debian?
On the same disc as XP?
Or have you got lost, and wound up on a Debian mailing list?
Regards,

David.


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Re: [OT] RE: Opium (Proposal?)

[David Palmer.]

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:32:09 -0500
Alfredo Valles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Monday 17 November 2003 11:33 am, Colin Watson wrote:
> >
> > No, the way to avoid the flamewars is for you to be less selfish and
> > have them somewhere else where they might actually be approximately
> > on-topic. This is *debian-user*, so please keep threads here at
> > least vaguely related to Debian.
> 
> As these topics have obviously so much popularity between debian
> community maybe it would be a good idea to create a debian-world list,
> where debian people could discuss about general topics, politics,
> philosophy, etc...
> 
> I mean if we admit that debian community as a whole share some common
> points of views, it would be very interesting to here them.
> 
> 
> Alfredo
> 
This is constructive.
There is obviously a requirement, and it would provide a venue for those
that are interested in discussions of this nature, while maintaining it
within, and thereby promoting the community aspect of Debian.

By creating a venue of this type, you would also have personalities that
would be interested in maintaining a reasonable standard in idea
interchange that would probably deliver the same message to the
purveyors of drivel that they are receiving now. I was participating
initially, but the situation has deteriorated to that of your average
mental midget.

The second creative aspect is that it would remove a distraction from
Debian-User, and allow the function of that list to proceed on its'
principal course, preserving goodwill within the community. A mature
personality is creative, any idiot can be destructive, m'kay?:)

With personally noted migration of Red Hat users to Debian recently,
because of the Red Hat desertion of the desktop, the new Debian
installer, and the Progeny port of Anaconda, I see the potential of
Debian use doubling, so beside Alfredos' recommendation, I would
respectfully suggest the creation of at least two other mailing lists.
Networking and Mail (icorporating spamassassin, clamav, etc.,) are two
subjects that I have noticed have a high incidence and may well rate
their own venues. If Debian adoption becomes as I suspect, Debian-User
as the 'general' list would be deluged. But assumption isn't a sound
basis, and these last two may be premature.
Regards,

David.

___

Iraq over?
Quick, change channels.
Let's see what's happening with 'Southpark.'   



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Re: maybe I missed a thread

[David Palmer.]

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 13:01:10 -0600
Ron Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Sat, 2003-11-15 at 07:09, Tom Allison wrote:
> > I have been unsubscribed from 'debian-user' for a bit so I may have 
> > missed a thread on this one.
> > 
> > But there has been a lot of discussion on other distro-lists about
> > the potential implications concerning the recent announcements of 
> > RedHat/Fedora and SuSE/Novell.  From the other lists, there's a lot
> > of discussion about alternatives and with that Debian is mentioned A
> > LOT.
> > 
> > Does any of this have any real potential influence on Debian?
> 
> How about an influx of "users" who depend on GUI for administration,
> and who aren't sick of RPM?
> 
I intend to agree here, especially with all the work being done at
present on the installation aspect of Debian. This is going to make
Debian much more 'accessible' to the general population than it has been
in the past. I have been thinking even of proposing the formation of
another one or two mailing lists (I considered 'networking' to have
enough traffic to be classified as a separate topic), as Debian-User, as
the general mailing list is possibly going to become deluged. Though we
probably have some time before that potential occurs.
Regards,

David. 


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Re: [OT] Re: Opium

[David Palmer.]

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 19:09:20 +0800
csj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 23:09:37 +0100,
> Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> > 
> > On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:39:31 -0600, 
> > Ron Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > 
> > > On Fri, 2003-11-14 at 02:22, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> > > > On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:56:11 -0600, 
> > > > Ron Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message 
> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > > > as sharing a good life etc means mankind volonteers to back
> > > > off on breeding, capping the population at I guess 15B, and
> > > > easing it down to the long term sustainable 10B.
> 
> This doesn't have to be the case if humanity expands to space.
> There are enough raw materials out there for 10T humans.  (Just
> reading a sci-fi novel about asteroid mining.)
> 
> > > It was tried in the PRC, which has the muscle and
> > > neighborhood spies to enforce it.  Still, it didn't work.
> 
> There's never been any self-limiting species.  That's why we have
> pest control and wayward asteroids to keep the successes of
> evolution in check.  If we as a species want to survive the next
> millenium we have to invest in space.  No amount of birth control
> or social problem will solve the population explosion.
> 
When you next look at an orange that's going mouldy, look more closely.
There are a number of colonies of microorganisms pulling off the
contract, not just one. A colony of bacteria is only capable of growing
to a certain size before it begins to kill itself off with its' own
effluent. In a very similar fashion to what we are doing to ourselves
now.
Also, man is the only species on the planet that goes in for wholesale
self-slaughter. Not even rats do that.

There are self-limiting species, alright.
They are the dumb ones.
Regards,

David.


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Re: Social Engineering. {was: Re: Opium [was: Re: freelance sysadmining -- superlong -- [WAS: "Red Hat recommends Windows for consumers"]]

[David Palmer.]

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 19:23:51 +0800
csj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:35:54 -0600,
> Ron Johnson wrote:
> > 
> > On Fri, 2003-11-14 at 15:31, Alfredo Valles wrote:
> > > On Friday 14 November 2003 3:48 pm, David Palmer. wrote:
> > [snip very good points]
> > > 
> > > > The modern 'educational' process is there to teach people
> > > > how to read just well enough so that they no longer need to
> > > > think.
> > > 
> > > The modern educational process should teach people not to
> > > think what have been thought by others before, but to
> > > concentrate on new problems.  It's what some call progress.
> > 
> > People still should think about "what have been thought by
> > others before", because what has been thought before might be
> > wrong.
> 
> Yes.  Imagine the consequences of someone figuring out we can
> actually accelerate beyond the speed of light.
> 
> 
They have.
They have also stopped it.
If you are interested, it might take me a while because it was a subect
I was dealing with some time ago, but I could chase up some references.
Regards,

David.



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Re: Opium [was: Re: freelance sysadmining -- superlong -- [WAS: "Red Hat recommends Windows for consumers"]]

[David Palmer.]

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:52:43 -0500
TR <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> > Its not often that I agree with Tom.  Should I be worried?
> > 
> > 
> 
> Holy crap! I would!
> 
Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Regards

David.


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Re: Opium [was: Re: freelance sysadmining -- superlong -- [WAS: "Red Hat recommends Windows for consumers"]]

[David Palmer.]

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 14:09:56 +
ben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 02:05:15 -0600
> Ron Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 2003-11-14 at 23:07, ben wrote:
> > > On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:14:38 -0800
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > On Fri, Nov 14, 2003 at 11:39:31AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > [snip]
> > > whatever about the rest, a theocracy in a century! bush has
> > > already made public statements about how god instructed him to
> > > invade afghanistan and iraq. what the hell happend to separation
> > > of church and state? on top of
> > 
> > Tell you what: I won't interpret the German Constitution if you
> > don't interpret the U.S. Constitution.
> 
> nah, i've got a better idea: you feel free to interpret the german
> constitution or any other text in the world, or not, as you wish, and
> i'll go on feeling free to do the same. no need to forbid yourself
> anything on my account.
> 
> 
> > 
> > Do you even know what "separation of church and state" means?  Does
> > it mean "government officials shall avoid religion at all costs",
> > or does it mean "Congress shall make no law respecting an estab-
> > lishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"?
> > http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/senate/constitution/amdt1.html
> > http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am1
> > 
> > Yes, that's right: Jefferson didn't mean what we now understand
> > "a wall of separation between Church and State" to mean.
> > 
> then i take it you haven't read jefferson's wall of separation letter.
> there's a copy of it at 
> 
> www.usconstitution.net/jeffwall, 
> 
> a transcript of the original in the library of congress. 
> 
> in response to the two questions above, consequent to my
> interpretation of the statements made by jefferson in that letter, the
> first answer would be that i believe i have a fairly good grasp of
> what jefferson understood separation of church and state to mean, and
> the second answer would be that, both definitions above are equally
> correct.
> 
> don't get me wrong, i'm not an america-basher. i know and like the
> place, but i'm very concerned that so much that is great there, in
> particular the vast range of freedoms implied in the constitution, is
> being steadily pulled out from under you by the current
> administration, and in such a manner that the conditions under which
> us other humans get to live are also detrimentally influenced. i think
> that the process by which individuals get to be in power, there, has
> been steadily removed from the people to such a degree that too many,
> albeit well-intended and loyal good folks, have begun to rely on blind
> faith rather than to continually regard government sceptically, as a
> necessary evil that should always be held in check and held to account
> for the manner in which it deals with its allotment of public trust.
> 
> ben
> 
Now that is fair and unbiased.
The only thing that can prevent the general acceptance of that are the
points of perception that are created by the sort of insular, parochial
forms of 'education' (incorporating mechanisms like nationalism), that I
have previously referred to.
Regards,

David.


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Re: Debian based working distribution

[David Palmer.]

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 11:53:24 +0100
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Otto Wyss) wrote:

> Since the current Debian sarge installation doesn't work (see
> "debian-boot" list) and I need an installation fast I'm looking for
> alternatives. So far I've tested Knoppix from the newspaper ct (has no
> root access), Morphix (doesn't run on my system). Any others?
> 
Do a google or alltheweb on Libranet.
Regards,

David.


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Re: Anaconda, where's the beef?

[David Palmer.]

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 01:30:12 -0800
"Karsten M. Self" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> on Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 10:05:59PM -0500, Fraser Campbell
> ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Apologies since this isn't really a Debian question but does anyone
> > know where a person can download the anaconda port for Debian?  I
> > saw the announcement a while back from Progeny but there were no
> > links, binaries, source or hints as to when they might make it
> > available. Perhaps they're waiting to get their  public subversion
> > server ready?
> > 
> > I'm hoping the port includes the ability to kickstart Debian, that
> > would make it _very_ useful for me today.
> 
> Good question.
> 
> I just spent several minutes poking through the announcements, several
> package archives (both standard Debian archives,
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=wnpp (ITP list),
> http://www.apt-get.org/, and the #debian IRC channel.
> 
> Your best bet may be to approach Progeny or Ian Murdoch directly on
> this.
> 
> ...and if you find out what the scoop is, please share!
> 
I don't know why we have to go to Red Hat for something that Debian
requires.
This looks like everything that might be required here:-

http://articles.linmagau.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=455&page=1

Regards,

David.


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Re: Social Engineering. {was: Re: Opium [was: Re: freelance sysadmining -- superlong -- [WAS: "Red Hat recommends Windows for consumers"]]

[David Palmer.]

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:55:58 -0800
Erik Steffl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Ron Johnson wrote:
> > On Fri, 2003-11-14 at 15:12, David Palmer. wrote:
> ...
> >>These potentially highly dangerous individuals are confined to
> >>institutions known as 'research centres', and if non conforming are seen
> >>as a disruptive and undesirable element by the established social order,
> >>and are further relegated to the classification of 'terrorist'.
> > 
> > 
> > Jeez, *I* got good grades in school, yet still (I think) think out-
> > side the box, yet don't live in a "research centre", the established
> > social order doesn't think I'm a disruptive and undesirable element,
> > and hasn't yet classified me a "terrorist".
> 
>conclusion: you have found a good place to hide :-)
> 
>   erik
> 
Yes, hide here with us, in Debian World.
Regards,

David.


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