Re: Why is Evolution and Epiphany now a part of gnome-core?
On Tue January 18 2011 05:06:52 Camaleón wrote: Finally, he decided to give it another role → gnome-core as metapackage for a GNOME DE that fits into a CD. Good or bad decision? Dunno, it's just a decision and as such can be enhanced, revoked, confirmed... as anything in this life :-) Dear Chameleon, It's a bad decision. Please reverse it before Squeeze so that this bad decision doesn't cause unnecessary work for thousands of Debian sysadmins and tens of thousands of Debian power-users. Gracias, --Miguel Aves -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201101181047.04499.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Re (2): message threading in debian lists; was Re (6): OpenVPN server mode usage.
On Tue January 18 2011 20:12:47 Bob Proulx wrote: peasth...@shaw.ca wrote: Are you suggesting that all of dalton's 'net traffic go through the tunnel and Joule? Are you suggesting that all of joule's 'net traffic go through the tunnel and dalton? Aren't both significantly disadvantageous? I am suggesting that you have such a complicated routing setup that it is causing you difficulty and that you should simplify it by some method. You listed five (5!) route commands in your configuration. Once your routing gets that complexicational you might want to consider using a routing deamon such as Quagga. You could probably use OSPF over the tunnels but we prefer to use private BGP, with each office and laptop and customer office network a separate private AS. BGP gives us better control of route propagation than OSPF. For example sysadmin laptops can communicate with customer office networks for maintenance purposes but customer office networks cannot see each other. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201101182107.47481.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: transition from Ubuntu - Debian to avoid Unity Desktop?
On Mon January 17 2011 10:09:27 Paul Johnson wrote: 1. Is Debian defaulting to the Unity Desktop too? (please say no) I don't think so. 2. How can I make a transition to Debian from Ubuntu? So I need to change my apt repositories and then do what else? If glibc or the kernel headers are new, I'll have to recompile everything I've built, but that's OK. Make sure you have a complete backup before you start. On RAID1 systems we also degrade the array and do the conversion on one mirror so that we can quickly switch back if the conversion fails. Usually we uninstall the desktop, apt-get update, apt-get dist-upgrade, and then install the Debian desktop. It is totally unsupported and may break everything but every time we've converted a system from Ubuntu to Debian in this way it has worked fine. 3. If I make this change Ubuntu - Debian, will I end up back in Nvidia Hell where the OS updates frequently break the commercial/proprietary video drivers? I understand that nouveau is providing reasonable 2D for Nvidia cards, but my job requires the 3D support that seems available only from the commercial driver. Non-free nVidia works great in Debian, both Lenny and Squeeze, both regular kernel module and DKMS (recommended). --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201101171026.52916.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Why is Evolution and Epiphany now a part of gnome-core?
On Mon January 17 2011 09:26:17 Hal Vaughan wrote: This is an example of why I've been moving away from FOSS. Someone makes a good point in a bug report and the programmer/developer/maintainer throws it back in his face, which allows the bug to be closed out quickly. Ill-considered decisions seem to have become increasingly prevalent among a small subset of Debian Developers. For example, a critical but easily fixed bug was recently closed without fix or comment, apparently based on personalities rather than technicalities[1]. Fortunately the ill-considered decisions of this minority are public, which makes them available for consideration by their potential future employers. Hopefully this mechanism will correct the problem. --Mike Bird [1] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?msg=7;bug=610185 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201101171044.30898.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Why is Evolution and Epiphany now a part of gnome-core?
On Mon January 17 2011 10:36:57 Camaleón wrote: * gnome-core = GNOME installation designed to fit on one CD That is a CHANGE to the definition of gnome-core, which affects many users who have gnome-core installed but not gnome-desktop- -environment. Here is the Lenny definition of the package: These are the core components of the GNOME Desktop environment, an intuitive and attractive desktop. . This package depends on a basic set of programs, including a file manager, an image viewer, a text editor and other basic tools. A DD changed gnome-core's dependencies instead of making the same changes to the CD's package list, and then was too lazy to fix his mistake. And thus one lazy DD creates headaches for thousands of sysadmins. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201101171101.51022.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: tun device creation on boot
On Sun January 16 2011 05:44:56 Daniel Bareiro wrote: I'm using OpenVPN to connect two departments with a central department. For this I'm using routing. In the central department I have an OpenVPN server which is using the /dev/net/tun1 and /dev/net/tun2 devices that I've created manually. Debian only creates a /dev/net/tun device. How I can achieve that on boot these devices to be created? I had thought of adding lines to create in /etc/rc.local, but there may be a more appropriate way to do it. /dev/net/tun is all you need. In your various OpenVpn config files just specify dev tun5 or whatever. tun5 and friends will appear by magic when needed in /sys/class/net (but not in /dev where they are not needed). --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201101160959.30861.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: The 'route' output
On Sun January 16 2011 21:20:19 T o n g wrote: Here is my 'route' output: snip and I have two questions, Divide and conquer. Your route is doing two things - - displaying your routing table and doing reverse DNS lookups on the IP addresses it finds. Simplify the problem by looking at route -n. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201101162128.15524.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Re (5): OpenVPN server mode usage.
On Wed January 12 2011 08:08:31 PETER EASTHOPE wrote: The failure of netcat, port 1194 to be detected on the external interface is more fundamental. If someone with a working tunnel can confirm that the netcat test of Bob Proulx works, then I'll know that it should work here before the tunnel can be expected to work. I don't think so. I can start an OpenVPN tunnel with my eth0 down. When I try your config on one of my test boxes I find the following in syslog: Jan 12 08:50:18 bul-lb ovpn-myvpn[9850]: Options error: --mode server requires --tls-server What do you see in your syslog? --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201101120852.41064.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Re (5): OpenVPN server mode usage.
On Wed January 12 2011 10:22:23 Bob Proulx wrote: It is definitely dev tun not tun0. Not when you've got six OpenVPN tunnels on one system. We use tun0 on single-tunnel systems for consistency and in case we need to add a second tunnel. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201101121032.37730.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Re (6): OpenVPN server mode usage.
On Wed January 12 2011 10:14:32 PETER EASTHOPE wrote: From: Mike Bird mgb-deb...@yosemite.net Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 08:52:41 -0800 When I try your config on one of my test boxes I find the following in syslog: Jan 12 08:50:18 bul-lb ovpn-myvpn[9850]: Options error: --mode server requires --tls-server (Peter replied off-list, so I have to omitted his reply.) Your config works without mode server. However with mode server you have to use TLS, not a static key: man openvpn states in relevant part: Server Mode Starting with OpenVPN 2.0, a multi-client TCP/UDP server mode is sup‐ ported, and can be enabled with the --mode server option. In server mode, OpenVPN will listen on a single port for incoming client connec‐ tions. All client connections will be routed through a single tun or tap interface. This mode is designed for scalability and should be able to support hundreds or even thousands of clients on sufficiently fast hardware. SSL/TLS authentication must be used in this mode. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201101121042.45667.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: ktorrent in sid
On Tue January 11 2011 14:06:59 deloptes wrote: Something brought me to this when reading lenny - squeeze with trinity by Mike One thing I'm missing not in trinity but in debian sid is ktorrent. is it really not working? Because it is not working for me since I've upgraded to kde4. It seems I can not use it with a proxy server. Is there a chance to install the old one (ktorrent2.2) or is it better to setup a virtual machine with lenny, where it is working fine? I don't have a test Squeeze KDE 4 box right now because we're focused on Trinity+Squeeze but but I'm 99% certain that Lenny's ktorrent2.2 was one of the few bright spots in our most recent KDE 4 evaluation a few weeks ago. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110433.32075.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Re (3): OpenVPN server mode usage.
On Tue January 11 2011 14:09:09 PETER EASTHOPE wrote: OK. Seems that somehow I've managed to disable port 1194 or tcpdump. Anything interesting in the /etc/openvpn/*, or in the output of iptables-save or of route -n or of ifconfig? (Post them here if there's nothing private.) --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110439.13440.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Re (4): OpenVPN server mode usage.
On Tue January 11 2011 19:23:50 PETER EASTHOPE wrote: r...@dalton:/etc/openvpn# ip addr show I don't see the OpenVPN tunnel. What happens on /etc/init.d/openvpn start? FWIW, I use dev tun0 (or dev tunN for some N) instead of dev tun in the OpenVPN config. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110953.13741.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: lenny - squeeze with trinity
On Mon January 10 2011 17:06:34 Brad Alexander wrote: Did an apt-get update (and aptitude update) and tried both an apt-get dist-upgrade and an aptitude full-upgrade, and both wanted to deinstall trinity. Hi Brad, There are a few minor conflicts that can be worked around. One I recall involves sudo and another involves desktop-base. After some experimentation we now use sudo-trinity instead of sudo, but desktop-base instead of desktop-base-trinity. In order to do this we remove both the desktop-base-trinity and kde-trinity packages, but we install most or all of their depends depending upon how much stuff is needed on a particular workstation. Some people (including us) have a problem with kdm-trinity, so we use kdm from KDE 4, which unfortunately brings in some extra KDE 4 libraries. We use phonon-backend-null here to avoid KDE 4 sound drivers. FWIW, I've appended our trinity seed package list. We install all of these --no-recommends except amarok-trinity. Also if you want a working ktorrent find an old copy of ktorrent2.2 as it is still by far the best. Trinity is well worth the effort. Our test users love it and it's improving far faster than KDE 4 (which as of our our last test a couple of weeks ago STILL can't install a working KMail). KDE 3.5: 9/10 Trinity: 8/10 KDE 4.4: 2/10 Please contact me on list or off if I can be of any further assistance. --Mike Bird amarok-engine-xine-trinity amarok-trinity exiv2-trinity gwenview-trinity k3b-trinity kdeaddons-trinity kde-core-trinity kdemultimedia-trinity kdeutils-trinity kgamma-trinity kghostview-trinity kipi-plugins-trinity kivio-trinity klaptopdaemon-trinity kmail-trinity knemo-trinity konversation-trinity kpdf-trinity kpowersave-trinity krita-trinity kscreensaver-xsavers-trinity ksnapshot-trinity kuickshow-trinity kviewshell-trinity kview-trinity kweather-trinity sudo-trinity kdm phonon-backend-null -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201101101748.50548.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Re (2): OpenVPN server mode usage.
On Mon January 10 2011 20:55:10 Bob Proulx wrote: Did something break in the Squeeze network infrastructure about a two weeks back? Most of my machines are running Lenny. So I wouldn't know. FWIW, we have not encountered any problems in what is now a mixed Lenny/Squeeze OpenVPN network. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201101102126.28574.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Got recursion not available from...
On Wed January 5 2011 09:11:50 vr wrote: nslookup X.X.X.X ;; Got recursion not available from x.x.x.x, trying next server ;; Got recursion not available from x.x.x.x, trying next server Please cat /etc/resolv.conf and post the result here. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201101051003.36498.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Got recursion not available from...
On Wed January 5 2011 10:24:25 vr wrote: On Wed, 5 Jan 2011 10:03:36 -0800, Mike Bird wrote: On Wed January 5 2011 09:11:50 vr wrote: nslookup X.X.X.X ;; Got recursion not available from x.x.x.x, trying next server ;; Got recursion not available from x.x.x.x, trying next server Please cat /etc/resolv.conf and post the result here. --Mike Bird nameserver x.x.x.x nameserver x.x.x.x The x's are obviously my IP's which I don't want on a public mailing list. Are you talking about 99.30.25.1 and 99.30.25.2? (They should be on different backbones in different geographical areas.) Are your name servers configured to allow recursion? Didn't you say earlier that your name servers run under Windows 2003? If so, why is this a Linux issue? --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201101051157.26009.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Got recursion not available from...
On Wed January 5 2011 12:09:56 vr wrote: In all cases of experiencing this issue, it's Linux clients querying a DNS server. The servers queried have been both Windows Linux. The client that gets recursion not available is always Linux (Lenny). Are you going to show us the named configuration of the Linux server which is saying that recursion is not available, and tell us the IP addresses of the client and the server? --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201101051250.14963.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: being up to date (Was: insserv + apache2 + bind9 = pain)
On Wed January 5 2011 13:37:59 Mihamina Rakotomandimby wrote: mgb-deb...@yosemite.net : The issue is that insserv throws away years of work by Debian Developers, That is not always bad. Computers have improved during the last years, why not their OSes? compiz, upstart, lxc,... are modern tools for modern use :-) Change can be good or bad. Hardware and software improvements are generally beneficial. Throwing away years of DD work and thereby causing innumerable previously rock-solid Debian servers to fail to boot is not. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201101051405.22458.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: being up to date (Was: insserv + apache2 + bind9 = pain)
On Wed January 5 2011 15:29:53 Arthur Machlas wrote: You keep asserting that 'years of DD work have been thrown away'. You do realise the ordering is still there, right? It's now in the LSB headers rather than the scripts numbering scheme. That is not correct. The LSB header ordering is weaker and causes many server failures, although it may be adequate for simple laptop configurations. The stable ordering is in fact in the postinst scripts. Undoing the damage done by insserv is possible but non-trivial. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201101051616.34383.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: being up to date (Was: insserv + apache2 + bind9 = pain)
On Wed January 5 2011 20:31:44 Mihamina Rakotomandimby wrote: mgb-deb...@yosemite.net : Undoing the damage done by insserv is possible but non-trivial. So... let's just work for some years and it will be better. Non-trivial as in a few days of work (mostly testing), not years. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201101052158.38113.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Why is Evolution and Epiphany now a part of gnome-core?
On Sat January 1 2011 03:50:54 Sven Joachim wrote: On 2011-01-01 12:26 +0100, Daniel Andersson wrote: I'm running Debian Squeeze, and I have only gnome-core installed so that I would not have Evolution or Epiphany installed since I do not use them. But it seems that both Evolution and Epiphany has been moved from gnome-desktop-environment to gnome-core. They were not a part of gnome-core until I ran an update yesterday (but only Evolution got installed automatically). So why have they been moved? Basically because gnome-desktop-environment is too big to fit on CD 1. See bug #608098 for more information, especially http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=608098#31. Creating a new package to depend upon evolution and ephiphany and gnome-core would be a less harmful solution. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201101021308.36495.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: insserv + apache2 + bind9 = pain
On Sun January 2 2011 13:59:01 Stefan Fritsch wrote: The rcN.d format is an excellent design if we can just keep insserv from mangling it. As I haven't converted one of my systems to dependency based boot yet, there still has to be some way to keep the old way. No idea why there is no documented way to switch that on... You should be able to preserve the old way by correctly answering the question when insserv is installed or sysv-rc is updated. We haven't tested that yet so I can't vouch for it. If you try it please let us know if it's safe. For our first three test upgrades we assumed insserv would not destroy the boot order as there is no warning in the debconf question or the release notes. Our third test upgrade was the first server test upgrade, and that was when we realized that insserv is a disaster. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201101021437.26516.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: insserv + apache2 + bind9 = pain
On Sat January 1 2011 06:00:54 Andrei Popescu wrote: I'm sure you are aware that insserv is doing the (re)ordering based on the LSB headers in each initscript. Don't you think your rant is exaggerated? Please read the thread. I don't think there is merit in repeating it here. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201101011356.27705.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: insserv + apache2 + bind9 = pain
On Thu December 30 2010 22:27:33 Arthur Machlas wrote: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=608437 Wow, that was fast! Thank you all! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201012310325.40518.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: insserv + apache2 + bind9 = pain
On Thu December 30 2010 22:29:00 Arthur Machlas wrote: Have you considered file-rc? file-rc is on our list as a possible fallback but the key seems to be to recover and then retain the combined intelligence that Debian Developers have encoded into those Snn/Knn values over the years. The rcN.d format is an excellent design if we can just keep insserv from mangling it. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201012310330.35965.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: insserv + apache2 + bind9 = pain
On Fri December 31 2010 06:32:27 Tom H wrote: file-rc's moving towards using dependency-based boot: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=573004 It's bad enough that script kiddies insist on breaking things they don't understand. But then they abuse the Debian packaging system by requiring instead of recommending unnecessary packages so that people are forced to use their silly hacks. Oh well. I'm sure we'll find a way to preserve the many years of work by Debian Developers that is encoded in the Snn/Knn values. The only question is whether it's a clean on-off switch or whether we have to hack the source. Here's to freedom and a great insserv-or-not-insserv new year! --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201012311029.54026.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: insserv + apache2 + bind9 = pain
On Fri December 31 2010 11:24:34 Bob Proulx wrote: The question is really one of philosophy. Do you start with a good foundation and then build upward? Or do you start with a large fully filled out structure and then remove the extraneous material? Harmful RECOMMENDS can at least be removed or blocked. When unnecessary and harmful packages are REQUIRED in order to satisfy some script kiddy's ego that's abuse of the packaging system. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201012311305.02059.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: insserv + apache2 + bind9 = pain
On Fri December 31 2010 10:51:18 Arthur Machlas wrote: As for all the talk of losing years of wisdom and bug squashing and what-not, I'm not really sure that's the case, but a debate about the worthiness of insserv as a successor to all the Snn Knn links is probably better suited to another thread, perhaps one where more dev's hang out than here on user. In any event, if you hope to convince people of that, I think calling DD's Script kiddies, especially one who just resolved the bug you noted and I reported within about 12 hrs, probably won't leave them too open to taking your position seriously. Nobody has called the Apache2 maintainers script kiddies. Most Debian Developers are excellent and dedicated to Debian rather than their own egos. It is the DD's work in developing the Snn/Knn values over many years that needs to be protected from randomization by the script kiddies. The script kiddies are those who abused the Debian packaging system to make sysv-rc REQUIRE the harmful and unnecessary insserv. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201012311313.39902.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: insserv + apache2 + bind9 = pain
On Thu December 30 2010 03:42:45 Camaleón wrote: On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 12:08:10 -0800, Mike Bird wrote: I have not lied about your postings. I started this thread by posting a solution[1] and by asking if there is a better solution. And I told you another way to get the job done (in fact, if you read the manual, is one of the recommended ways of doing it) and some hints on how to debug the error of the non-booting service (by disabling pararel booting). But you are only complaining about something that -I think- you don't fully understand and not attending to anything else (nor Debian developer's reasons who wanted to make the change to insserv, nor documentation, nor helping in enhance it... nothing!). (Sigh). I do a lot of volunteer teaching, but not usually in this subject area. Oh well, here goes ... Parallelism isn't the issue. The issue is that insserv throws away years of work by Debian Developers, causing services to boot in the wrong order, and thus to fail. I found the problem, debugged it, and created a solution before posting. I posted that solution when I started this thread. And I asked if there is a BETTER solution.[1] You replied with a different solution but not a better solution. In fact, within the limits of the appalling documentation, your solution appears to be worse. Understanding why your solution is worse is a small step on your road to becoming a competent sysadmin. My solution is to create a file in /etc/insserv/overrides. My solution at this time handles upgrades perfectly. However the lack of proper documentation means that we don't know if conflicts may arise in future if a Debian package wants to create a file with the same name in that directory. Your solution is to edit /etc/init.d/apache2. Your solution requires manual intervention on every apache2 upgrade. Therefore your solution is worse than mine. However I would still appreciate it if anyone can offer a better solution than mine, or Debian's policy on which of the five or more sources of dependency information are for sysadmins and which are for packagers, or Debian's policy on which of the five or more sources of dependency information will in future automatically migrate to upstart or systemd or launchd, or where the mysterious dependency between openvpn and gdm3 is declared, or advice on reverting this insserv mess and using the reliable Snn/Knn startup sequencing for Squeeze servers. Now if you want to keep arguing who has the largest cojones, please take it elsewhere. Nobody will argue with you. This thread is about insserv problems and solutions. Anything else is off-topic. --Mike Bird [1] http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2010/12/msg01609.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201012301057.39599.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: insserv + apache2 + bind9 = pain
On Thu December 30 2010 12:13:03 Tom H wrote: On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 1:57 PM, Mike Bird mgb-deb...@yosemite.net wrote: Your solution is to edit /etc/init.d/apache2. Your solution requires manual intervention on every apache2 upgrade. Apparently not: http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2010/12/msg00550.html I see. So for packages which respect editing /etc/init.d/ files, manual intervention is required every time the packager changes the virgin /etc/init.d/ file, but not necessarily on every upgrade. Thank you, Tom. Nevertheless, this is still more manual intervention than if the override is placed in /etc/insserv/overrides, or some but not all of the many other places where dependencies can be declared. Some of the open questions are which of those many places are reserved for Debian packagers and which are reserved for sysadmins; and which if any will be automatically converted to systemd or launchd or upstart when insserv is thrown out. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201012301250.44792.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
[SOLVED] How to upgrade chain-booted grub-pc?
Thanks to Phil Requirements for noting that: grub1 = grub-legacy grub2 = grub-pc --- After grub-pc has automatically set up the interim chain boot configuration during dist-upgrade, grub-pc is not apparently installed on any boot sector. What is happening is that grub1 is chain booting into the file .../grub/core.img, not into another boot sector. Therefore, when the subsequent grub-pc upgrade demands to know GRUB install devices: the correct response is to hit enter, signifying none. grub-pc will then ask Continue without installing GRUB? to which the response y will result in an upgraded grub-pc without breaking the automatic chain-load configuration. Messing with bootloaders is never 100% safe. YMMV. --Mike Bird P.S. We'll be reverting to grub-legacy ASAP and in future will blacklist grub-pc when upgrading systems to Squeeze. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201012301345.56405.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: insserv + apache2 + bind9 = pain
On Thu December 30 2010 16:24:19 Tom H wrote: As an aside, you refer to the pre-insserv setup as Snn/Knn startup mechanism but insserv doesn't deviate from that style. insserv creates the Snn/Knn symlinks dynamically in an order determined by a set of dependencies. pre-insserv the symlinks' order was set statically by the maintainers. That's a good point Tom. insserv is not even properly parallel, just some kind of ha...@$$ed semi-parallel - starting groups of services in parallel but the groups are run serially. I'd like to call the old mechanism sysv-rc but the insserv developer has abused the Debian package upgrade process to turn sysv-rc into insserv hell. We're trying to figure out the cleanest way to stop insserv from throwing away all the Snn/Knn information that Debian Developers have created over the years. Then we'll attempt to reset the Snn/Knn to those sane values. My first thought was a loop over update-rc.d $script defaults but that no longer seems to work. Still looking for a clean remedy. Hopefully there's a nice on-off switch in there somewhere. I'm mostly working on some other projects now but I hope to be able to work on this full-time in a few days. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201012301656.59318.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: insserv + apache2 + bind9 = pain
On Wed December 29 2010 00:13:04 Camaleón wrote: AFAIK, booting scripts have been rewrited to play with dependency booting and provided this is new for Squeeze, I would expect some glitches, but nothing that cannot be solved. The question is not whether the problem can be solved. People can as a last resort always hack the source. The immediate question is whether the insserv mess can be reasonably maintained. And the big picture question is whether the ego boost for the insserv developer is worth the substantial hit to Debian's reputation. I'll give you just a few examples that we've run into since this thread started a few hours ago. (1) We cannot find any useful documentation as to who controls /etc/init.d/foo, /etc/insserv/overrides/foo, /etc/insserv.conf.d/foo, /usr/share/insserv/overrides/foo, and /etc/insserv.conf. All of these can be used to specify dependencies. Which are intended for Debian packagers, and which for sysadmins? Which are supported properly through upgrades and dist-upgrades? How are conflicts between the five sources of dependencies handled, i.e. which has priority over which others? You recommended that sysadmins edit /etc/init.d/foo. Is that Debian policy or a kludge that will cause pain on the next upgrade? Would it be better to use one of the many other places where overrides can be specified? (2) There are many kinds of connections and tunnels and routes that need to be established on some boxes but not on others. For example, some servers need ethernet interfaces, then openvpn, then quagga. Others need early PPP although we don't have a test box configured for that right now. Debian Stable handles all this correctly out of the box. After insserv wreaks havoc, openvpn can erroneously be brought up last while apache can fail before openvpn, named, quagga, and mysql are started. Any sane dependency boot system would allow me to say start openvpn before services X, Y, and Z but under insserv we're stuck with creating a separate override for each of X, Y, and Z. insserv appears to be a high-school coding experiment, not a professional sysadmin tool. (3) insserv wants to start openvpn before gdm3 on workstations. That's probably a good idea as that's what Debian Stable does. However, although that dependency appears in the generated /etc/init.d/.depend.start we cannot find the source of the dependency. It is not in any of the places listed in (1) above. Are there more special cases hidden somewhere? What if someone needed gdm3 to start before openvpn, how would they override a hidden (possibly hard-coded?) dependency? (4) /etc/init.d/bootlogs describes itself as Various things that don't need to be done particularly early in the boot, just before getty is run. And yet it has no defined relationship to getty, and defines the opposite relationship to gdm3, kdm, etc. Which is correct, the description or the dependencies? Thanks for looking into this. I still fail to see why saving half a second a year on server booting is worth inflecting days of drudgery on tens of thousands of sysadmins. So yet again, why is Debian forcing this horrible change? The old sysv-rc is not hard to support alongside file-rc. Why abuse the power of Debian dependencies to push this bad idea on sysadmins who don't want it? Why can't we keep the excellent debugged working reliable sysv-rc from Lenny? If some people want to use insserv let them, but don't force people to go through this nonsense! insserv simply throws away all the hard work by Debian Developers over many many years that went into tuning the default rc2.d/Snn priorities. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201012290137.48863.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: insserv + apache2 + bind9 = pain
(Sigh) So you don't know anything about insserv? Why guess? That only makes things worse. People may find your bogus suggestions in the archive and mistakenly act on them. Please let people who understand insserv answer the questions. Thanks, --Mike -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201012290151.34664.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: insserv + apache2 + bind9 = pain
On Wed December 29 2010 02:03:10 Camaleón wrote: On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 01:51:34 -0800, Mike Bird wrote: Please let people who understand insserv answer the questions. Nothing impedes people from replying. Unfortunately that is true. You can put out a lot of bad information and harm Debian. Please don't. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201012290216.20405.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: insserv + apache2 + bind9 = pain
On Wed December 29 2010 01:43:09 Camaleón wrote: On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 01:37:48 -0800, Mike Bird wrote: The question is not whether the problem can be solved. Then what do you want? Just complain? I STARTED this thread by posting a solution[1]. And I asked if there is a better solution. Camaleón offered an alternative solution, which appears to everyone who has looked at the issues to be a worse solution. When asked detailed questions so that alternative might be justified, Camaleón resorted to the retort shown above. If anyone has a BETTER solution to offer we would certainly appreciate it. In particular, we would like to know whether the stable and reliable and maintainable Snn/Knn mechanism can be used in Squeeze. Thank you in advance, --Mike Bird [1] http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2010/12/msg01609.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201012291012.45737.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: insserv + apache2 + bind9 = pain
On Wed December 29 2010 11:29:38 Camaleón wrote: On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 10:12:45 -0800, Mike Bird wrote: On Wed December 29 2010 01:43:09 Camaleón wrote: On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 01:37:48 -0800, Mike Bird wrote: The question is not whether the problem can be solved. Then what do you want? Just complain? I STARTED this thread by posting a solution[1]. And I asked if there is a better solution. Sir, please, again... *stop* your foolish monologue. And stop *lying* about my postings :-/ Please be quiet Camaleón until you have something positive to contribute. I have not lied about your postings. I started this thread by posting a solution[1] and by asking if there is a better solution. All of the partipants in this thread other than you are trying to find a better solution to the serious problems created by insserv. You contributed one poor and ill-considered suggestion and since then your SNR has degenerated to zero. --Mike Bird [1] http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2010/12/msg01609.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201012291208.10852.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
How to upgrade chain-booted grub-pc?
A dist-upgrade to Squeeze results in a chain boot comprising both grub1 (grub-pc) and grub2. Today's grub-pc update now wants to know where to automatically install, presumably because it does not recognize grub2's chain-boot setup. Unfortunately, I also don't know the details of what grub2 did to make the chain boot, so I don't know what to tell grub1 (grub-pc) when it asks: The grub-pc package is being upgraded. This menu allows you to select which devices you'd like grub-install to be automatically run for, if any. Does anyone have any solid recommendations (no wild guesses please) as to how to determine the best response? Thanks, --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201012291228.07815.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: etch mirror
On Wed December 29 2010 13:00:53 Vuki wrote: does anyone know a working etch(4.0) apt mirror? Please see: http://archive.debian.org/README --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201012291309.16453.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Recommendations for massive dhcp settings
On Wed December 29 2010 17:05:38 Daniel Bareiro wrote: I have a network of over a hundred machines in which we are using a DHCP server on Debian GNU/Linux Lenny. But the dhcpd.conf file is monolithic and unwieldy. Are you specifying static IPs for every box, and do you need to? I've got a client's DHCP config here - three VLANS, seven static IP's for printers and such like, several hundred workstations on dynamic IP's, ... and it's well under 2KB. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201012291742.02678.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Recommendations for massive dhcp settings
On Wed December 29 2010 18:12:21 Daniel Bareiro wrote: Sorry. I forgot to comment that they are all static IPs for better control of workstations accessing the network. Hi Daniel, You may be doing a lot of work that is not providing any security. If someone connects an unauthorized workstation, and configures it with an unused IP from the DHCP pool, are they blocked from accessing the network? On the very rare occasions when I've done MAC filtering it's been in a switch, not a DHCP server. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201012291838.51366.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: permissions all zero when using 'cp'
On Wed December 29 2010 17:56:16 Martin Lorenz wrote: when copying a file (no matter which) the copy gets zero permissions. What's the result of running the umask command? Normally it's something like 0022. You may have 0777. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201012291841.43361.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: permissions all zero when using 'cp'
I see Bob Proulx offered some great suggestions. Here are few thoughts: Are you running anything like selinux? Could a clumsy rootkit have gotten into your system? What are the permissions of files created with touch, mkdir, vi? I'm not sure if anything bad in the filesystem could do this but you might want to try a fsck. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201012291940.37451.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Recommendations for massive dhcp settings
On Wed December 29 2010 19:42:35 Daniel Bareiro wrote: The idea of having static IP was that they were easily identifiable if they were conducting suspicious activity (for example an indiscriminate use of bandwidth). Simplifying the configuration of DHCP server, what other tools can make the fine adjustment when detecting a problem with workstations? FWIW, we simply use the MAC tables on the switches when we need to track down somebody abusing a network. Sorry I can't help you with your large static DHCP file. Maybe a PERL or sed script to generate it from text file of MAC/IP pairs? --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201012292007.35739.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: How to upgrade chain-booted grub-pc?
On Wed December 29 2010 20:12:10 Phil Requirements wrote: This is not advice for your problem, I just wanted to point out something I noticed. Your description of the two grubs conflicts with my understanding of them. As far as I know, the following is true: grub1 = grub-legacy grub2 = grub-pc So, in my understanding grub1 != grub-pc. That alone may give you a way to understand what grub-pc is asking you. Thank you, Phil, for correcting my misunderstanding on that point. I still don't know how to answer grub-pc's question but at least I'm a step closer. Much appreciated. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201012292021.18088.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: insserv + apache2 + bind9 = pain
On Mon December 27 2010 23:55:00 Arthur Machlas wrote: On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 4:45 PM, Mike Bird mgb-deb...@yosemite.net wrote: If the Apache configuration needs DNS to start, Apache silently and without logging anything fails to start in Squeeze. This used to work correctly under the old startup mechanism in Lenny. Create a new group in /etc/insserv.conf, and name the scripts that are required to start. Then list that group as a required start. Thanks Arthur. It's still the case then that one has to either edit /etc/init.d/apache2 (which impedes future upgrades) or else create a ten line /etc/insserv/overrides/apache2 and then manually keep it in step with future changes to /etc/init.d/apache2? This seems a lot more work and a lot more error prone than the old sysv-rc system. We've already found some servers with apache2-bind9 dependencies, and others with apache2-mysql dependencies. Is it possible to go back to the old system? All this upgrade downtime is not worth the half second saved on a server reboot which may only occur once a year. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201012280010.23664.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: insserv + apache2 + bind9 = pain
On Tue December 28 2010 01:31:50 Camaleón wrote: On Tue, 28 Dec 2010 00:10:23 -0800, Mike Bird wrote: Is it possible to go back to the old system? If you mean how to disable dependency booting yes, you can disable it to get the old behaviour, but you will still have to ensure bind9 is started before apache2: http://www.debian.org/releases/squeeze/i386/release-notes/ch-whats-new.en.h tml#dependency-boot Thank you Camaleón. CONCURRENCY=none may help some people with different problems, but it does not solve the problem of unexpressed dependencies. Is there a way to use the old-style reliable init system based on the Snn and Knn values in rcn.d? Real servers have dependencies among numerous server processes. A few of these dependencies relate to Debian packaging but far more relate to configuration, scripting, plugins, and even custom programming. It is simply not worth the effort to spend hours trying to discover and express all the dependencies on a bunch of servers in order to save half a second of boot time once per year. It took me four hours to discover what was wrong in a very simple case. This was not helped by failures to log errors, bootchart2 missing from Squeeze, a near complete lack of documentation, and insserv silently ignoring errors in my early attempts to express missing dependencies. I've read the very thin /usr/share/doc and man documentation and googled extensively. The new system may be great for script kiddies rebooting their Ubuntu laptops twice a day but it is an appalling idea for Debian servers. It not only scales terribly (on the order of N squared dependencies instead of N priorities) but is also very poorly documented. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201012281006.58377.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: insserv + apache2 + bind9 = pain
On Tue December 28 2010 10:56:48 Camaleón wrote: JFYI: apache2: fails to start with dependency based boot if DNS is required by configuration http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=606334 Thank you for the link but the bug is not in Apache. The bug is the poorly thought out and poorly documented startup mechanism which is being pushed onto previously stable and reliable Debian servers. People have also encountered problems with MySQL, Request Tracker, Apache, and Bind. We haven't even started testing LDAP, Samba, Postfix, ClamSMTP, ClamAV, Quagga, YP/NIS, WordPress etc in the various combinations and with the various configurations and various plugins employed on different servers. If anyone doubts it's a nightmare, take a look at the sysv-rc changelog and see how many special case hacks and weeks of effort went into getting insserv to work with just a virgin Linux system with no significant services running. Remember that configuring the priorities of N services is O(N), while configuring all their dependencies is O(N*N). It just doesn't scale on real world servers. You're breaking stable Debian servers and pushing all the repair work on Debian users and sysadmins. FOR NO GOOD REASON. What's worse is that the startup sequence is not repeatable. A service required may just happen to be ready in time on most reboots but start up a little slower sometimes and thus cause intermittent failures. Analyzing every piece of code and configuration on a system - some of it written more than ten years ago - is a nightmare. It's the Microsoft way to use a separate box for each service but prior to Squeeze it has always been a big selling point for Debian that you could always add another service to a box and it would just work. In the past Debian has worked REALLY WELL for small businesses and schools. There's no VALID reason for FORCING insserv on Debian servers other than someone's desire to see his/her software being used. So I will repeat the key question, and with increased desperation: How do we run the old reliable Snn/Knn style startup mechanism in Squeeze? --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201012281207.30589.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
insserv + apache2 + bind9 = pain
If the Apache configuration needs DNS to start, Apache silently and without logging anything fails to start in Squeeze. This used to work correctly under the old startup mechanism in Lenny. In order to make Apache startup under insserv in cases where the Apache config needs DNS information I eventually created /etc/insserv/overrides/apache2 containing only: #!/bin/sh ### BEGIN INIT INFO # Provides: apache2 # Required-Start:$local_fs $remote_fs $network $syslog $named # Required-Stop: $local_fs $remote_fs $network $syslog $named # Default-Start: 2 3 4 5 # Default-Stop: 0 1 6 # X-Interactive: true # Short-Description: Start/stop apache2 web server ### END INIT INFO ... and then ran insserv and rebooted. Is there a simpler solution? --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201012271445.16799.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: KMail - forwarding issues
On Tue October 19 2010 11:26:30 AG wrote: Is there a trick to forwarding emails in KMail so that all that happens is that the OP's email content is preserved along with any attachments but that the OP's details can be edited out? I use KMail/Kontact in KDE 3.5 in Lenny. Does pressing T (Edit Message) and changing the To address at the top come anywhere close to the functionality you need? --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201010191529.33294.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: KDE Question
On Tue October 12 2010 22:46:14 Kelly Clowers wrote: Akonadi and Strigi and similar technologies are critical to taking the desktop to the next level of efficiency and effectiveness. Admittedly, that's still in the early stages, but it is clearly where we need to go. People are working fine in KDE 3 without Akonadi and Strigi and NEPOMUK. People try KDE 4 and work slower. I don't object to your choice of KDE 4 as a religion, but please don't expect people who have to work for a living to waste their time worshipping KDE 4 during office hours. Maybe one day the semantic web and the semantic desktop will become useful. Maybe not. For now, the internet and KDE 3 are what works. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201010130052.36788.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: KDE Question
On Tue October 12 2010 19:11:29 Kelly Clowers wrote: On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 15:39, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com wrote: use plain desktop, disable akonadi, strigi and that stuff, forget activities, return to the standard icons on the desktop.. Out of all the awesome things in KDE4 why would disable some of the very best? People want to use Debian to get work done. That stuff is clever but slow and irrelevant for 99% of users. Meanwhile, does anyone have any thoughts on the trade-offs involved in upgrading to the latest Trinity KDE 3.5.12? We had intended to stay with official Debian KDE 3.5.5 as long as it was supported. Is 3.5.12 worth evaluating at this stage or are most people planning to wait until Lenny and Debian KDE 3.5 are no more? TIA, --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201010121938.31484.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Samba versus NIS - rpc.ypxfrd port binding
We just had some craziness with smbd going into a tight loop while attempting to start Samba. It turned out to be because smbd thought a printing service was running, but it couldn't make sense of attempts to communicate with that printing service. The reason for this appears to be that rpc.ypxfrd had bound to TCP port 631. Subsequent invocations of rpc.ypcxfrd bind to different privileged ports. Does rpc.ypxfrd really bind to a RANDOM privileged port? Should Samba be able to make progress if a printer daemon is returning garbage, particularly as in this case when there is no [printers] section in smb.conf? This is in Lenny, but the conf files have been inherited through many dist-upgrades. TIA --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201010051904.49031.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: df: where is the root fs?
On Wed September 1 2010 11:45:14 hugo vanwoerkom wrote: What other way is there other than df to find where the root fs is mounted? cat /proc/mounts is authoritative even when /etc/mtab is messed up. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201009011156.08330.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: df: where is the root fs?
On Wed September 1 2010 12:01:16 hugo vanwoerkom wrote: But that does not have the device: rootfs / rootfs rw 0 0 none /sys sysfs rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0 none /proc proc rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0 udev /dev tmpfs rw,relatime,size=10240k,mode=755 0 0 /dev/sda6 / ext2 rw,relatime,errors=remount-ro 0 0 tmpfs /lib/init/rw tmpfs rw,nosuid,relatime,mode=755 0 0 usbfs /proc/bus/usb usbfs rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0 tmpfs /dev/shm tmpfs rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime 0 0 devpts /dev/pts devpts rw,nosuid,noexec,relatime,gid=5,mode=620 0 0 /dev/sdc7 /sda7 ext2 rw,relatime,errors=continue 0 0 /dev/sda6 / ext2 rw,relatime,errors=remount-ro 0 0 The /dev/hda6 appears to be a problem in your /etc/mtab. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201009011208.57830.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Fascinating problem with bash
On Tue August 24 2010 04:09:39 Oliver Schneider wrote: Okay, that is surprising indeed, as SHLVL is not being adjusted to reflect that fact, according to my findings. But thanks a bunch for pointing that out. It's surely more elegant to use this method than to write to a temporary file. You might be able to achieve your objective by returning an exit code from the last pipeline element's process and then subsequently testing it in the main script's process. $ echo X | while read a; do echo $a; exit 1; done | while read b; do echo $b; exit 2; done; echo $? X 2 In many cases this can be simplified to a simple or ||. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201008240850.29437.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Monitoring tools to use on an account
On Fri July 30 2010 09:13:08 hugo vanwoerkom wrote: This person knows nothing of commands or VT's so it was just internet browsing activity. I would sure like to know what happened. How do you know that this person hasn't captured your passwords and/or keys, possibly by temporarily rebooting on a CD to gain root privileges? --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201007300930.28957.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Monitoring tools to use on an account
On Fri July 30 2010 09:47:15 hugo vanwoerkom wrote: Mike Bird wrote: On Fri July 30 2010 09:13:08 hugo vanwoerkom wrote: This person knows nothing of commands or VT's so it was just internet browsing activity. I would sure like to know what happened. How do you know that this person hasn't captured your passwords and/or keys, possibly by temporarily rebooting on a CD to gain root privileges? We're sidetracking again. I guarantee you that this person knows nothing about keys or capturing passwords or gaining root privileges. It doesn't take a lot of technical knowledge to download and burn an attack CD. Remember this person has already surprised you with IIRC two reboots. It's unlikely you will be able to find out what happened after the event. Given physical access to the device, there's no way of guarantying that even a previous installed logger would report accurately - as for example if the system were temporarily rebooted on an attack CD. Perhaps by your friend. Perhaps when your friend left the system unattended. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201007301013.49618.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Monitoring tools to use on an account
On Tue July 27 2010 09:53:40 AG wrote: Any suggestions, please? If you have the right to supervise a child then supervise them. Stay in the room and make sure they're not surfing porn. Do so openly. If you don't have the right to supervise an adult then don't spy on them. Speaking for myself, not Debian, ... --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201007271024.58836.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: expect does not expect anything
On Sat July 24 2010 18:36:47 Dirk wrote: #!/usr/bin/expect -f spawn rsync -r --progress a u...@bla.com:/b expect assword: send password\r expect hostname why does this script stop while rsync is still transferring? (hostname is the name of the host in the prompt) and, yes, it HAS TO BE done using expect... any answer including the word keys will not be helpful From man rsync: Some modules on the remote daemon may require authentication. If so, you will receive a password prompt when you connect. You can avoid the password prompt by setting the environment variable RSYNC_PASSWORD to the password you want to use or using the --password-file option. This may be useful when scripting rsync. WARNING: On some systems environment variables are visible to all users. On those systems using --password-file is recommended. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201007241852.56456.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: expect does not expect anything
On Sat July 24 2010 18:57:57 Dirk wrote: does not work Ah yes. I should have noticed that you're probably using ssh. Try installing sshpass instead of using expect. When rsync sees expect's sockets it mistakenly thinks it's a daemon. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201007241951.28660.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: usernames that start with capital letter?
On Mon July 19 2010 11:16:12 Ron Johnson wrote: Why aren't they recommended? Back when us dinosaurs ruled the earth an upper case login signified an upper-case-only input device, and the login software automatically lower-cased the input before validating the login. I don't know if any such software remains in Debian. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201007191150.16769.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Very slow LVM performance
On Mon July 12 2010 12:45:57 Arcady Genkin wrote: Creating the ten 3-way RAID1 triplets - for N in 0 through 9: mdadm --create /dev/mdN -v --raid-devices=3 --level=raid10 \ --layout=n3 --metadata=0 --bitmap=internal --bitmap-chunk=2048 \ --chunk=1024 /dev/sdX /dev/sdY /dev/sdZ RAID 10 with three devices? --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201007121400.42233.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Very slow LVM performance
On Mon July 12 2010 15:16:47 Aaron Toponce wrote: Incorrect. The Linux RAID implementation can do level 10 across 3 disks. In fact, it can even do it across 2 disks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-standard_RAID_levels#Linux_MD_RAID_10 Thanks, I learned something new today. Now I guess the question is, does LVM understand the performance implications of 10 RAID-1E PV's, or would the OP be better off assigning his 30 devices as 15 RAID-1 PV's. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201007121559.05684.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: only output the nth line
On Wed May 12 2010 09:58:57 Jozsi Vadkan wrote: sed -n '1,2p;4p' file.txt doesn't work. Works for me in Lenny. What output do you see? What version of sed do you have? --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005121011.44506.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Wed May 12 2010 11:47:27 Dotan Cohen wrote: On 12 May 2010 13:21, deloptes delop...@yahoo.com wrote: - ALL kde apps like kplayer/organizer and probably others start very slowly about 20-30secs to pop up I think that you have something borked in your install. Are you testing in Squeeze or Sid or something else? --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005121212.33363.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Mon May 10 2010 05:48:37 Dotan Cohen wrote: What does copy files do then? Describe to me what it does and I will see if Dolphin can do that, or if it is reasonable I will file a feature request. Did you not know KDE has a builtin help system? Or are you trolling? Edit-Copy Files (F7) Copy the selected item(s) to another folder. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005100608.18500.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Mon May 10 2010 07:14:32 Dotan Cohen wrote: I can only assume that came from the KDE 3 manual, which I don't have installed locally as I've stated that I am running KDE 4. Sure, I could have stfw for it or installed KDE 3, but so could the parent poster install KDE 4 and file his own bugs. If you want to compare KDE 3.5 and KDE 4 then please install both. If you want to discuss KDE 4 please do so in a KDE 4 thread. I'm trying to help him, if you haven't noticed, and your interference is not appreciated. I have no problem with you looking for opportunities to attack me, but please don't do that at Steef's expense. I sent you the help text you asked for. That is not interfering. And for the n+1'th time please stop CC'ing me when replying to list. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005101135.01382.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Sun May 9 2010 06:18:27 Sjoerd Hardeman wrote: It is a list rule to reply only to list *unless asked otherwise*. In this case, Dotan asks otherwise, so what's the problem. That is factually incorrect. Dotan has replied to me+list on several occasions without permission. From the comments here I believe he annoys others similarly. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005090906.14455.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Sun May 9 2010 08:20:40 Florian Kulzer wrote: (snip) That is fine, of course, but why do you bother the list with your grievances if your mind is already made up and you are not willing to work with the people who care about making KDE4 better? Do you just want to use the list as your personal agony aunt? This is a Debian list, not a KDE list. A lot of people care about not making Debian worse, and are thereafter taking the time and making the effort to present the case for not deleting KDE 3.5 from Debian. While the KDE devs have gone on to new and sillier pastures, KDE 3.5 is apparently maintained at least by the Trinity project and it is possible that either Trinity or other solutions may yet be developed that will avoid the planned harm to Debian. This is a worthwhile discussion for a Debian list. I would suggest, however, that follow ups if any be directed to the more focused forum of debian-kde, to which I have cross-posted this message. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005090918.06704.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Sat May 8 2010 08:25:07 Dotan Cohen wrote: So long as you are not loading Qt3 libraries in addition to the Qt4 libraries, KDE 4 is lighter on RAM than KDE 3. You can really feel it, too. Note that many Debian KDE 3.5 installations include both QT3 and QT4, e.g. to support kdebluetooth or lsb-desktop. If you upgrade your RAM from 1GB to 2GB, KDE 4 feels about as fast as KDE 3.5, except KDE 4 startup and KMail startup are still slower. One reason for needing additional RAM seems to be memory leaks, although whether in QT4 or KDE itself I don't know. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005080908.48771.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Questions about RAID 6
On Sun May 2 2010 13:24:30 Alexander Samad wrote: My system used to become close to unusable on the 1st sunday of the month when mdadm did it resync, I had to write my own script so it did not do mulitple at the same time, turn off the hung process timer and set cpufreq to performance. A long time ago there were problems like that. Nowadays s/w RAID handles rebuild so well that we don't even have to set /proc/sys/dev/raid/speed_limit_max. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005021919.06455.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Questions about RAID 6
On Wed April 28 2010 01:44:37 Stan Hoeppner wrote: On a sufficiently fast system that is not loaded, the user will likely see no performance degradation, especially given Linux' buffered I/O architecture. However, on a loaded system, such as a transactional database server or busy ftp upload server, such a RAID setup will bring the system to its knees in short order as the CPU overhead for each 'real' disk I/O is now increased 4x and the physical I/O bandwidth is increased 4x. I've designed commercial database managers and OLTP systems. If CPU usage had ever become a factor in anything I had designed I would have been fired. If they're not I/O bound they're useless. With a few exceptions such as physical backups, any I/O bound application is going to be seek bound, not bandwidth bound. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201004281148.16763.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Questions about RAID 6
On Wed April 28 2010 15:10:32 Stan Hoeppner wrote: Mike Bird put forth on 4/28/2010 1:48 PM: I've designed commercial database managers and OLTP systems. Are you saying you've put production OLTP databases on N-way software RAID 1 sets? No. I've used N-way RAID-1 for general servers - mail, web, samba, etc. Nevertheless N-way RAID-1 would be a reasonable basis for a small OLTP database as the overwhelming majority of OLTP disk transfers are reads. If CPU usage had ever become a factor in anything I had designed I would have been fired. If they're not I/O bound they're useless. That's an odd point to make given that we're discussing N-way RAID 1. By using N-way RAID 1, you're making the system I/O bound before you even create the db. You had claimed that on a loaded system, such as a transactional database server or busy ftp upload server, such a RAID setup will bring the system to its knees in short order as the CPU overhead for each 'real' disk I/O is now increased 4x and the physical I/O bandwidth is increased 4x. Your claim is irrelevant as neither CPU utilisation nor I/O bandwith are of concern in such systems. They are seek-bound. Given the way most database engines do locking, you'll get zero additional seek benefit on reads, and you'll take a 4x hit on writes. I don't know how you could possibly argue otherwise. Linux can overlap seeks on multiple spindles, as can most operating systems of the last fifty years. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201004281548.15476.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Questions about RAID 6
On Wed April 28 2010 18:51:18 Stan Hoeppner wrote: You seem to posses knowledge of these things that is 180 degrees opposite of fact. OLTP, or online transaction processing, is typified by retail or web point of sale transactions or call logging by telcos. OLTP databases are typically much more write than read heavy. OLAP, or online analytical processing, is exclusively reads, made up entirely of search queries. Why/how would you think OLTP is mostly reads? If all you're doing is appending to a log file then you're write-intensive. For example, some INN servers using cycbuffs are write-intensive if they can forward the articles out to the peers before they disappear from cache. OLTP databases have indices (or hash tables or whatever) that need to be read even when writing a new record. Then of course, the data that has been written needs to be used for something such as fulfillment and analysis. Both are mostly reads. Backup from the live DB is all reads. I typically saw about 90% reads in OLTP databases. I think this is getting off-topic for debian-user. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201004281917.14982.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Questions about RAID 6
On Mon April 26 2010 10:51:38 Mark Allums wrote: RAID 6 (and 5) perform well when less than approximately 1/3 full. After that, even reads suffer. Mark, I've been using various kinds of RAID for many many years and was not aware of that. Do you have a link to an explanation? Thanks, --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201004261137.35915.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Questions about RAID 6
On Mon April 26 2010 12:29:43 Stan Hoeppner wrote: Mark Allums put forth on 4/26/2010 12:51 PM: Put four drives in a RAID 1, you can suffer a loss of three drives. And you'll suffer pretty abysmal write performance as well. Write performance of RAID-1 is approximately as good as a simple drive, which is good enough for many applications. Also keep in mind that some software RAID implementations allow more than two drives in RAID 1, most often called a mirror set. However, I don't know of any hardware RAID controllers that allow more than 2 drives in a RAID 1. RAID 10 yields excellent fault tolerance and a substantial boost to read and write performance. Anyone considering a 4 disk mirror set should do RAID 10 instead. Some of my RAIDs are N-way RAID-1 because of the superior read performance. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201004261304.13643.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Questions about RAID 6
On Mon April 26 2010 14:44:32 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: the chance of a double failure in a 5 (or less) drive array is minuscule. A flaky controller knocking one drive out of an array and then breaking another before you're rebuilt can really ruin your day. Rebuild is generally the period of most intense activity so figure on failures being much more likely during a rebuild. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201004261633.53139.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: overcoming the 32k objects limit is ext3 - which file system to use?
On Sat April 24 2010 07:00:37 Camaleón wrote: Well, I admit my English is not the very best it could be, but for sure the OP concern was 32000 files/folders under a folder and if I read ^^ that in a correctly manner, it says something about *folders under a folder*... I hope subdirectories = folders is still valid. Hi Camaleón, In English the slash is understood to mean or. There is no limit of 32000 files or folders under a folder in ext3. There is a limit of 31998 directories under a directory. This is caused by the ext3 hard link count limit being 32000. Two links are needed for the parent directory entry and the current directory's ., leaving only 31998 links available for .. links from subdirectories. This limit is rarely encountered in practice because it is so much more efficient to use multiple directory levels, e.g.: parent- a- able alf b- beta bravo --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201004240717.24641.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: overcoming the 32k objects limit is ext3 - which file system to use?
On Sat April 24 2010 07:30:33 Camaleón wrote: And wasn't *that* the limit the OP was asking about or I misunderstood something? :-? OP wrote: ext3 can have only 32000 files/folders under a folder and I hit that limit. As I demonstrated, ext3 can have 5 files in a folder (directory). Or as many more as the filesystem has space for. The 31998 subdirectories limit is rarely encountered because using a multi-level directory heirarchy is so much more efficient. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201004240758.17484.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: creating tables...html
On Sat April 24 2010 15:52:41 Jozsi Vadkan wrote:
htmlheadmeta http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html;
charset=utf-8 /
bodystyle type=text/css
a:link, a:visited, a:active { text-decoration: none; }
a:hover { text-decoration: underline; }
table.tabletemplate { width: 100%; border-width: 1px; border-style:
outset; border-color: #00; }
/style/headbodypre
test text here1
test text here2
table class=tabletemplatetrtdpre
test text here1
test text here2
/pre/td/tr/table
test text here1
test text here2
/prebody/html
You've got two different causes of white space there. Try this:
htmlheadmeta http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html;
charset=utf-8 /
bodystyle type=text/css
a:link, a:visited, a:active { text-decoration: none; }
a:hover { text-decoration: underline; }
table.tabletemplate { width: 100%; border-width: 1px; border-style:
outset; border-color: #00; }
/style/headbodypre
test text here1
test text here2
table class=tabletemplatetrtdpre style=margin-bottom: 0;
test text here1
test text here2/pre/td/tr/tabletest text here1
test text here2
/pre
body/html
--Mike Bird
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Re: overcoming the 32k objects limit is ext3 - which file system to use?
On Fri April 23 2010 21:13:27 Siju George wrote:
ext3 can have only 32000 files/folders under a folder and I hit that limit.
Which file system can I use to over come it?
I am planning for JFS
Does anybody has any recommendations?
There is no such limit. ext3 can handle as many files per folder
as you've got space for.
$ mkdir /tmp/foo
$ cd /tmp/foo
$ perl -e 'for ($i=0; $i5; ++$i) { open(F, $i); close(F); }'
$ ls | wc -l
5
$ mount | grep md1
/dev/md1 on / type ext3 (rw,errors=remount-ro)
$ mount | grep /tmp
$ cd
$ rm -rf /tmp/foo
--Mike Bird
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Re: How to reduce a debian system to a base system
On Fri March 19 2010 12:55:47 Mike Viau wrote:
I was looking for a way to purge or remove all the packages that were
installed on a Debian system after the initial (bare bone) minimal system
installation. I have searched on Google for How to reduce a Debian system
to a base system but it seems like the topic of interest was to reduce the
memory consumption of the installed system, which is not my consern.
In essence I would like to revert my system back to a freshly installed
state, without reinstalling. Ultimatly is this possible?
Assuming your bare bones --get-selections file is called bbs:
dpkg --dry-run --purge $(join -v2 (awk '{if ($2==install) print $1}' bbs |
sort) (dpkg --get-selections | awk '{if ($2==install) print $1}' | sort))
Remove --dry-run at your own peril once you're happy with the proposed
actions.
You may need to run it a couple or three times but that should do it.
--Mike Bird
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Re: How to reduce a debian system to a base system
On Fri March 19 2010 19:14:21 Mike Viau wrote:
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 14:48:02 -0700 mgb-deb...@yosemite.net wrote:
On Fri March 19 2010 12:55:47 Mike Viau wrote:
I was looking for a way to purge or remove all the packages that were
installed on a Debian system after the initial (bare bone) minimal
system installation. I have searched on Google for How to reduce a
Debian system to a base system but it seems like the topic of interest
was to reduce the memory consumption of the installed system, which is
not my consern.
In essence I would like to revert my system back to a freshly installed
state, without reinstalling. Ultimatly is this possible?
Assuming your bare bones --get-selections file is called bbs:
dpkg --dry-run --purge $(join -v2 (awk '{if ($2==install) print $1}'
bbs | sort) (dpkg --get-selections | awk '{if ($2==install) print
$1}' | sort))
Remove --dry-run at your own peril once you're happy with the proposed
actions.
You may need to run it a couple or three times but that should do it.
--Mike Bird
My output with the suggestion above.
debian:~# dpkg --dry-run --purge $(join -v2 (awk '{if ($2==install)
print $1}' debian-5.04-base-selections | sort) (dpkg --get-selections |
awk '{if ($2==install) print $1}' | sort)) bash: command substitution:
line 1: syntax error near unexpected token `(' bash: command substitution:
line 1: `join -v2 (awk '{if ($2==install) print $1}'
debian-5.04-base-selections | sort) (dpkg --get-selections | awk '{if
($2==install) print $1}' | sort)' dpkg: --purge needs at least one
package name argument
Type dpkg --help for help about installing and deinstalling packages [*];
Use `dselect' or `aptitude' for user-friendly package management;
Type dpkg -Dhelp for a list of dpkg debug flag values;
Type dpkg --force-help for a list of forcing options;
Type dpkg-deb --help for help about manipulating *.deb files;
Type dpkg --license for copyright license and lack of warranty (GNU GPL)
[*].
Options marked [*] produce a lot of output - pipe it through `less' or
`more' ! debian:~#
Your command has a superfluous space between and (. Works for me
when the extra space is removed.
--Mike Bird
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Re: Apache2 chroot /dev/null permission denied
On Wed March 17 2010 19:00:35 Knowledge Seeker wrote: That is the problem. The permission is set to 666 and the group is root. But it still don't work. Please post the exact complete error message, and also the results of the following three commands run as root as soon as possible after the error occurs: # ls -dl /dev drwxr-xr-x 22 root root 6280 2010-03-14 11:16 /dev # ls -l /dev/null crw-rw-rw- 1 root root 1, 3 2010-03-14 11:15 /dev/null # su www-data -c 'ls -l /dev/null' crw-rw-rw- 1 root root 1, 3 2010-03-14 11:15 /dev/null Is there anything in your Apache config that might be trying to chroot? --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201003181252.37677.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Increasing or Freeing inodes
On Wed March 17 2010 03:38:27 Siju George wrote: I got this warning from nagios about one of my debian systems DISK WARNING - free space: /var 426 GB (54% inode=99%): / 6 GB (1% inode=89%): /boot 173 GB (99% inode=99%): I am runnig backuppc on this server and I guess it is those hardlinks that are consuming the inodes. (1) You don't have an inode shortage. You have 99%/89%/99% inodes free. (2) You can confirm this with df -i. (3) Hardlinks do not consume any inodes, only directory space. (4) You're short of blocks (not inodes) on your 6GB root drive. (5) du -x --max-depth=1 / may help to show what is using those 6GB. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201003171734.50354.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Increasing or Freeing inodes
On Wed March 17 2010 17:34:50 Mike Bird wrote: (1) You don't have an inode shortage. You have 99%/89%/99% inodes free. (2) You can confirm this with df -i. (3) Hardlinks do not consume any inodes, only directory space. (4) You're short of blocks (not inodes) on your 6GB root drive. (5) du -x --max-depth=1 / may help to show what is using those 6GB. Correction: (4) and (5) should of course say 564GB, not 6GB. 6GB is the (approx 1%) free space remaining. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201003171742.45724.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: /boot partition changes when it should not
On Mon March 8 2010 16:28:40 Clive McBarton wrote: I do NO write operation whatsoever on it. It is not allowed to change in ANY way. It's probably not that large. Save a few copies with dd and see where they differ. Might turn up a clue. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201003081635.52842.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Decompiler?
On Sun February 21 2010 23:42:19 Hadi Motamedi wrote: Thanks . As I don't want to completely analyze the whole of the program and I just want to find the exact syntax of an specific command that is being exchanged between my Debian and the remote network element , can you please let me know which de-compiler can I use to de-compiler just that small subroutine segment part ? If the protocol is open documented, read the documentation. Otherwise if the program is open source, download the source. (Sometimes the source is more accurate than the documentation.) Otherwise see if you can find an open source program that does the same thing, and read its source. Otherwise you're the decompiler (unless you can persuade somebody else to decompile it for you). --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201002220218.51909.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Installing squirrelmail cause apache2 to segfault
On Sat December 19 2009 15:14:26 thing wrote: So basically I cant install any web based webmail packages without totalling apache. I've never had any problems with squirrelmail with these versions: # dpkg -l | grep -i '\(apache\|php\|squirrel\)' | sort -n | cut -b-68 ii apache2 2.2.9-10+lenny6 ii apache2.2-common 2.2.9-10+lenny6 ii apache2-mpm-prefork 2.2.9-10+lenny6 ii apache2-utils 2.2.9-10+lenny6 ii libapache2-mod-perl2 2.0.4-5 ii libapache2-mod-php5 5.2.6.dfsg.1-1+lenny4 ii libapr1 1.2.12-5+lenny1 ii libaprutil1 1.2.12+dfsg-8+lenny4 ii libphp-phpmailer 1.73-6 ii libphp-snoopy 1.2.4-1 ii php5 5.2.6.dfsg.1-1+lenny4 ii php5-common 5.2.6.dfsg.1-1+lenny4 ii php5-curl 5.2.6.dfsg.1-1+lenny4 ii php5-gd 5.2.6.dfsg.1-1+lenny4 ii php5-mysql5.2.6.dfsg.1-1+lenny4 ii php-gettext 1.0.7-6 ii squirrelmail 2:1.4.15-4+lenny2 (You may not need all those PHP packages.) --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Local vs. relayed mail
On Tue November 10 2009 12:53:06 Todd A. Jacobs wrote: I'm currrently using Postfix on a pair of machines, one of which is a smarthost for the other. If I do something like this on the internal machines: mail -s Test nospam /dev/null Then the mail is delivered locally, rather than through the smarthost. If I manually append the domain, though: mail -s Test nos...@example.com /dev/null then everything works just fine. Is it possible to force smarthost delivery for usernames that exist on both machines? What do you have in your main.cf? This works for me: myorigin = yosemite.net inet_interfaces = loopback-only mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8 relayhost = mx1.yosemite.net inet_protocols = ipv4 --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: /etc/network/interfaces: network option
On Tue September 1 2009 22:59:13 Rakotomandimby Mihamina wrote: Hi all, Let a /etc/network/interfaces be, with these lines: iface eth0 inet static address 192.168.1.15 network 192.168.1.0 broadcast 192.168.1.255 gateway 192.168.1.254 What is the role of 'network'? I mean: If I am on a 192.168.1.8/27: address 192.168.1.8 netmask 255.255.255.224 What to put as 'network'? network = address netmask, i.e. 192.168.1.0 broadcast = address | ~netmask, i.e. 192.168.1.31 However, in most cases you can safely omit both network and broadcast from /etc/network/interfaces as they are automatically calculated from the address and netmask. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: trouble with smbclient
On Wed August 19 2009 18:46:52 Steve Kleene wrote: I'm trying to use smbclient to connect from the console of an Etch host to a Windows server at work. As root, I can mount my directory on the server by entering this: mount -t cifs //site.uc.edu/kleene /mnt -o username=place/steve and my password. However, any of these smbclient lines fails: smbclient -L //site.uc.edu/kleene -U username=place/steve smbclient -L //site.uc.edu/kleene -U username=place/steve%password smbclient -L site.uc.edu\\kleene -U username=place\\steve smbclient -L site.uc.edu\\kleene -U username=place\\steve%password The error is: session setup failed: NT_STATUS_LOGON_FAILURE Any idea how to succeed with smbclient? Thanks. The -L is used to list shares on a server. To connect to a share you should omit it. The following should work: smbclient //site.uc.edu/kleene -U place/steve -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: rsync problem
On Mon July 27 2009 22:59:38 Robert Holtzman wrote: Tried to post this to the rsync list but the subscribe connection failed so I'll try here. Just installed rsync 3.0.3-2 and tried to backup to a usb drive using a script: rsync -vaHz --exclude '/proc' --exclude '/sys' -- exclude '*.iso' --exclude '/media' / /media/disk/laptop Does the space between the -- and the exclude exist in the script? --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
tmpreaper clobbers initramfs under construction?
Just got this and much more when a kernel update occurred while tmpreaper was running. I'm redoing the kernel update in case there were parts of the initramfs which HAD been successfully unlinked. /etc/cron.daily/tmpreaper: error: Failed to unlink `ehci-hcd.ko': No such file or directory error: Failed to unlink `uhci-hcd.ko': No such file or directory Is this a bug, or did I miss some warning about not installing kernels while tmpreaper is running? --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: date - if - bash
On Fri April 17 2009 07:59:39 Erik Xavior wrote: why isn't working? :S if [ $(date +%H) 10 ]; then echo later then 10h; else echo before 10h; fi; 10 created a file called 10. You probably want -gt 10. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
[OT] To synchronize system time witn NTP-server with no winter time shift whole year - how to?
On Mon March 30 2009 16:12:57 Tom Furie wrote: On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 04:47:38PM -0600, Paul E Condon wrote: Now, I want to stop arguing about the descriptions. But just one last shot. I believe it is factually incorrect to say that you 'lose an hour' in switching from standard to summer time. It is conventional wording, it is manifestly untrue. But if people say it often enough, it becomes something that is used in syllogisms as if it were a fact. To be slightly pedantic about it, if you go to bed at whatever your usual time is before the clocks change and still have to get up at the same (clock) time in the morning as you did the day before, then you do lose an hour of sleep, that night. Then again, by the same argument, seven months or so later you get that hour back, so it all balances anyway. In which case, you wouldn't mind randomly sleeping sixteen hours or zero hours with equal probability because in the long run it all balances anyway? --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: [OT] Cron and day of the week
On Sun March 29 2009 06:25:41 Matus UHLAR - fantomas wrote: No, I think that _all_ fields have to match an entry to be executed. From man 5 crontab: Note: The day of a command’s execution can be specified by two fields — day of month, and day of week. If both fields are restricted (i.e., aren’t *), the command will be run when either field matches the cur‐ rent time. For example, ‘‘30 4 1,15 * 5’’ would cause a command to be run at 4:30 am on the 1st and 15th of each month, plus every Friday. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Delete 4 million files
On Wed March 18 2009 09:37:53 kj wrote:
This might seem like a stupid question, but I'm hoping there's a better
way.
I discovered a Maildir on my server with 4+ million mails in. The
result of a cronjob that runs every minute - this has been fixed.
Now, I've been running the usual find . -type f -exec rm {} \;
but this is going at about 700,000 per day. Would simply doing an rm
-rf on the Maildir be quicker? Or is there a better way?
Might be best to make sure the directory is indexed, if on a filesystem
which supports indexing, then use rm -rf.
--Mike Bird
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