Re: How to file a proper bug report

[t . j . duchene]

Thank you, David and Felix.  Your comments have been very helpful. 
I'll look into those as soon as I get some free time!

T.J. 

Re: How to file a proper bug report

[t . j . duchene]

On Fri, 2019-02-15 at 11:20 +1100, Ben Finney wrote:
> t.j.duch...@gmail.com writes:
> 
> > I have a user question on how to file a proper Debian bug report
> > under
> > certain circumstances.
> 
> Thank you for taking the care to find out what information is needed
> for
> a good bug report.
> 
> Your specific use cases seem to involve non-free software (Steam
> games
> are, I assume, non-free in general, though there may be some
> exceptions)
> so that makes it particularly difficult to diagnose problems.
> 
> If there are reproducible behaviours, it can be helpful to run the
> program under ‘strace’ and reproduce the behaviour, to get an
> extremely
> verbose log of system calls being made at the time when the behaviour
> occurs.
> 
> When that is reproducible, it might be helpful to have two separate
> ‘strace’ log outputs: one from the environment where you don't get
> the
> buggy behaviour, one where you do.
> 
Thank you for the suggestion, Ben.  I really do appreciate it, and will
try that as soon as I have some free time.  I have seen videos of a
similar effect in other Steam games ported to Linux, so I am actually
concerned that this may be a regression in Mesa (which is free
software) as Debian Stable's older version does not have the issue.  

I spend most of my time working on Windows, so debugging Linux will be
something new.  Thanks for helping me on that!  If you don't mind, I'll
post back on what I find so I can do this the right way.

Thanks again.

T.J.

  

How to file a proper bug report

[t . j . duchene]

I have a user question on how to file a proper Debian bug report under
certain circumstances.

I've been testing Debian Buster off and on with Steam games. I have
noted that using the AMD open driver and Buster with Alien Isolation
seems to suffer some graphics regressions, specifically "blinking black
squares."  This does not happen under Debian Stable with the kernel
from stretch-backports (needed for my AMD Radeon 580RX on a Ryzen 5
2600X). I'd like to file a proper bug report, but I can't be confident
that it Buster's Mesa library that is the issue.  I have no real
experience debugging the graphics stack, unfortunately.

I've noted that this remains unaddressed in Ubuntu 18.04 LTS  as well
(if that is actually helpful).

What is the best/most productive way to proceed?  

Thank you! 
T.J.

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

[T. J. Duchene]

Sorry had an issue that caused a premature post before I could
finish it.  

On Tue, 1 Sep 2015 23:11:51 +0900
Joel Rees  wrote:


> 
> There is a difference between what I asked and what you're telling me.
> 
> Simply tweaking and recompiling debian or redhat is not what I'm
> asking about, although it can be tedious enough. Nor is building a
> functioning gentoo really.
> 
> I'm asking if you have built an OS from scratch, including the
> userland tools and apps, for a specific, non-trivial purpose.

That depends.  If you consider using LFS to be the only answer you will 
accept, then "No", since as I said, I have never used it.  If you 
consider that I have taken existing code, compiled, rearranged, or
added to it to save time, then the answer might be "Yes." 

It really depends on if you accept that I have rebuilt most of Linux
over multiple occasions, but never all at once. 

I suspect that anyone who has done so is a tiny minority on this list.
I do not think that it is fair to judge what a person is saying based
on that.

 


> 
> Should I believe you when you say that? 

Whether or not you believe anything I say is entirely up to you.
Personally, I would like to think that you would at least consider it,
but ultimately what we discuss here has very little to do with the
"price of tea in China."


> I know it seems to be picky  of me, but I've often found that this
> particular expression is used more in the ironic mood. 

You don't know me, and that's fine. If you did, when I say I am
offering you respect, you'd know that I mean exactly that.  I might not
always agree with you, but we can have a civilized discussion. 

> 
> Perhaps it is to you. But if I needed only adaptation, the Macintosh
> is a much more comfortable environment to do the adaptation thing in.

If open source means something different to you that is certainly your
prerogative and I have nothing to say about it.  For myself, the whole
point of open code is to improve it and find new uses.


> 
> I have other needs. Unfortunately, there is no current OS/community
> that can provide me those needs. The nice, though uncomfortable, thing
> about the systemd business is that it brought my attention to that
> fact.

I'm genuinely sorry to hear that. =(

I find the systemd issue to be less important because at any point
anyone who can reasonably compile code can assemble something that they
can use - with or without systemd.  For me personally, the important
thing is FOSS: free open source software, not Linux specifically.

Generally speaking, I do not give a damn what certain factions within
Linux does, because if I am motivated, I can and will always be able to
ignore them.  I can take the code and use it as I see fit.   

You could respond that that is impossible for the non-programmer.
Truthfully, I do not think that is entirely the case anymore.  Using
the right setup anyone can compile or assemble a working Linux with a
modicum of personal skill.  I say this because after I showed a few
people how to use configure and make, they were able to take over from
there as long as they were using a stable codebase.  That is not to say
that there can't be issues, but with tools, anyone can follow
directions.



> 
> Please don't put words in my mouth.

Fair enough.  That was never my intent, and if you are offended, I
apologize.  One of the problems with the written word is that it is not
always possible to arrive at the same meaning, and we have different
cultures, which sometimes lead to misunderstandings in non-technical
conversation.

>
> 
> Now, you see, you and I have a very different perspective on things
> here. I don't want to even put Doug into the position of having to
> wonder whether he should learn how to build his own OS from scratch.
> At least, not now, when it would not be very meaningful to do so.

I think that we are less far apart then you do, but in the end it does
not really make much difference to others. 

I would ask "Why is someone using Debian or a Linux in the first
place?" If the answer is only because I do not want Windows, then I
believe that Debian is the wrong place for them. 

Once, I felt as you do, but I realized Debian has at its heart a DIY
philosophy concerned primarily with FOSS.  It has too many rough edges
and usability issues to be a user operating system. That is why Linux
never really succeeded in the consumer world until Android came
along.   



> 
> > I also prefer that in discussions of this nature, that people
> > maintain some logical distance - separating the person from the
> > code.
> 
> No self-respecting engineer will claim that the code he produces can
> be separated from the context he operates in, including his
> personality.
> 
> Sorry if I'm being too blunt with that.

That's fine.  You're welcome to think what you like.  

For myself, code is just code.  It either works or it does not.  It is
literally a mathematical expression that has absolutely nothing 

Re: kde5 - the problems do not stop

[T. J. Duchene]

On Thu, 20 Aug 2015 11:59:13 +0200
Hans hans.ullr...@loop.de wrote:

 
 Yes, I admit, we are at the moment in an unlucky situation, and I
 admit, I have no solution for it. For the users I only can give the
 advice:
 
 Do not update your running system, when you are running debian/stable.
 If you are running debian/stable - leave it that way!
 
Hi Hans!

You should not be using Testing or Unstable if you are not prepared to
deal with bugs that can possibly break your system.

Not to seem rude or demeaning in any way, but that is pretty much an
axiom.  Debian has made public notice in their documentation many times
that no one should expect reliable behaviour from any version other
than Debian Stable.  

Like all of Testing, the version of KDE in Testing is updated via
complete automation. It is not patched for security and other possible
problems in a timely basis when it is not in a frozen state prior to
the next release.  

You can read more here:  https://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting


Take care
T.J.

Re: new laptop: DVD or Blu-ray

[T. J. Duchene]

On Thu, 20 Aug 2015 06:53:42 -0400
ken geb...@mousecar.com wrote:

 One of the build options for a laptop I'm looking at buying is DVD vs 
 Blu-Ray.  


 I've never used Blue-ray before, so is there some compelling reason,
 as a Linux guy, to want to get Blu-ray?
 
Hi Ken!  Hope you are having a fabulous day.  

I have a BD drive and if I might say so, the answer is no. No, there
is not a reason to prefer Blu-ray over DVD when using Linux. In fact,
there good reasons to stick with DVD.  

1. Embedded DRM 

Depending on your country, movie playback can be illegal.  Setting that
aside, DVD movies can be played more easily on Linux at present. Bluray
and DVD encryption are not widely supported on Linux in any case.

Not only do the Blu-ray players/disc drives carry DRM, but the DRM is
designed to be annealing - meaning that it updates itself.  Blu-ray
discs carry updates and blacklists that your Blu-ray drive is required
to accept on a hardware level. Whenever you insert a disc into the drive
(OS makes no difference), the firmware is checked and possibly
updated. If for any reason, the drive refuses the update, the disc
becomes unplayable.  Software and discs that are blacklisted in the
drive's DRM will no longer function with the drive after that,
regardless of what disc you put in it.  Flashing the drive to restore
the original firmware probably will not work, the manufacturers are
expected to prevent such obvious tricks.  

The chances of it becoming a real problem are very remote, BUT it
should be said that there is no guarantee that these DRM updates won't
cause software problems for you, even if you are using legitimate
software.


2. Cost of backups.

As for backups, using Blu-ray RWs are an expensive media and
eventually a non-degradeable plastic waste material. They average about
$20 USD for 10/25 GB discs or 250GB. For about the same cost, you can
buy 100/4GB DVD or 400GB. You're better off buying an external 1TB
drive at a cost of about $60 for 1000GB. The external drive can be
reused, unlike the BD or DVD. For permanent recordings, DVD is far more
cost effective and widely supported on more hardware at present.

3.  Getting Downloads

When getting Linux ISOs and other materials, it's far more common to use
DVDs rather than BDs, as download size can be factor.


Take care!
T.J. 

Re: Request virtualbox setup advice

[T. J. Duchene]

On Thu, 20 Aug 2015 15:56:39 -0400
Whit Hansell skippe...@comcast.net wrote:

 Hey guys,
 Been reading the virtual noob posts and a statement there intrigued
 me. Someone said Oracle recommended using the virtualbox files from
 their site rather than from the distro(Debian 8 - Jessie-AMD64).  I
 have used virtualbox in the past and had difficulty with I/O(usb) and
 found out about the PUELA file and then before I could do anything
 about it my HD failed.  Well, I'm up and running again, have tried
 the distro version w. the PUELA extension and on my W7 guest I end up
 with the CPU pegged at 100% a few minutes after starting it up.  That
 just isn't right.  I think but am not sure it has to do w. my usb
 webcam but not sure. Anyway, want to start over and have the best
 foundation possible in order to reduce the variables with possible
 problems later.  So I feel the Oracle software sitauation is the way
 to go.
 
 So I am interested in using Oracle's files and have questions.
 
 I can as recommended on the Oracle site, add Oracle to my sources
 list file and the keyring.  Have done similar w. multimedia w. no
 problems. But since I have virtualbox 4.3.x files on the distro, will
 the first update I do after I do the above, just add another set of
 virtualbox files of the newer 5.x.x versions, leaving the lower
 versions alone?  Or will it cause a conflict?  I would guess it
 should be OK but wanted to check first before I hose things up.
 
 OR
 
 I can download the Jessie version 5.x.x .deb file and stick it into
 my usr/loca/ directory and then have to mess around with manual
 updating whenever Oracle comes out with a newer version.
 
 Please advise.  I would love to have a good working version of
 Windows on my Linux box for the few times it is needed.
 
 Thanks in advxnce for your help.  You guys are great.
 
 Whit
 

Not that I am trying to muddle the issue, Whit, but in my experience
the VirtualBox guest drivers are terrible.  You can't easily resize disk
files,  and the relative performance is poor.  I've entirely dropped
using it in favor of KVM, and I'm only suggesting that you consider it.

 Most Linux kernels already have KVM support. You don't have to
 concern myself with Oracle's schedules.  If you have the hardware, you
 can use video passthrough and optimizations to get near
 90-95% of native speed - which is much better and far more compatible
 than VirtualBox.

Take care!
T.J.