Re: [Off topic] videos of german state TV, was Re: HTML syntax.

[deloptes]

Thomas Schmitt wrote:

> I agree that it is not people-friendly to try preventing the use of a
> video after it was depublicated by state TV. The concept of Depublication
> is technically an unrealistic fiction and also a blow to the payers of
> state TV fees ("Rundfunkgebuehren").
> 
> Given the german judicial principles, the owner (ZDF, as of Michael
> Lange's report here) is obliged to use all reasonable means to enforce its
> legally obliged decision to depublicate the video. So i assume they use
> their copyright claim towards Youtube and others as tool to show this
> reasonable effort.
> 
> I see no indication that the content of the video was the reason for its
> depublication. Such content driven depublication happens from time to
> time, but not silently. Usually it rather enhances the public impact of
> the disliked message.

I understand the general part and partially agree - though it is disputable
if such lows ("Rundfunkgebuehren") are contemporary.
For this specific documentary I do not know, because there are many other
documentaries on YT that are still available.
It is very hard to not slip into conspiracy because even in the documentary
they say that the studies performed by the French Government, VW and Audi
showed that such vehicles become green after 20km and that the media
refused to publish the studies, because it is damageing the image of EVs.

Anyway - I was trying to not download any video I like, but just to bookmark
the link to the video. This story here emerged from the sneaking
dictatorship of big corporations and governments and went off line.

There is definitely less freedom than in 2007. There is more spying,
censorship and aggression from left and right.

As for the HTML5 it is obviously hard to make a parser (there are roughly 2
engines that can handle HTML5 well) so there is also less freedom here.

Hence my conclusion that we enter middle/dark ages of modern world

Re: [Off topic] videos of german state TV, was Re: HTML syntax.

[Joe]

On Wed, 05 May 2021 09:51:59 +0200
"Thomas Schmitt"  wrote:


> 
> But i really do not see any such censoring with the video about
> environmental problems with electrical cars. It was aired and then
> available for two months. Business as good or bad as ever.
> 

Even the WEF are fairly upfront about it:

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/03/the-dirty-secret-of-electric-vehicles/

-- 
Joe

Re: [Off topic] videos of german state TV, was Re: HTML syntax.

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

i wrote:
> > the song "Meine Oma ist 'ne alte Umweltsau" (= "My granny is an old
> > environmental hog"), sung by a children choir

Michael Lange wrote:
> Still seems to be available on yt, though.

Legally it could now be "Zeitgeschichte" (= "contemporary history") and
thus be exempted from the obligation to depublish it.
But since WDR as the copyright owner retracted it, it rather could be due
to the technical unfeasability of depublication.

My best theory is that they have a good media consultant who told them
that any publicly visible attention to this song would start a new wave
of ridiculing the wobbly backbone of WDR.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: [Off topic] videos of german state TV, was Re: HTML syntax.

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

i wrote:
> > i really do not see any such censoring with the video about
> > environmental problems with electrical cars.

deloptes wrote:
> But it was on youtube and was removed and I could not find it

I agree that it is not people-friendly to try preventing the use of a video
after it was depublicated by state TV. The concept of Depublication is
technically an unrealistic fiction and also a blow to the payers of state TV
fees ("Rundfunkgebuehren").

Given the german judicial principles, the owner (ZDF, as of Michael Lange's
report here) is obliged to use all reasonable means to enforce its legally
obliged decision to depublicate the video. So i assume they use their
copyright claim towards Youtube and others as tool to show this reasonable
effort.

I see no indication that the content of the video was the reason for its
depublication. Such content driven depublication happens from time to
time, but not silently. Usually it rather enhances the public impact of the
disliked message.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: [Off topic] videos of german state TV, was Re: HTML syntax.

[Michael Lange]

Hi,

On Wed, 05 May 2021 09:51:59 +0200
"Thomas Schmitt"  wrote:

(...)
> The reason for not eternally offering videos for download is in the
> legal framework of german state TV. (In german:
> "Rundfunkstaatsvertrag", now "Medienstaatsvertrag".)
> 
> State run TV collects mandatory fees from all households for the purpose
> of broadcasting radio and TV. When the internet became important for
> publishing, the private german newspaper publishers and TV stations
> objected that the state run TV used those fees for financing a strong
> web appearance. The compromise, which is now law, was the rule that
> videos and audio are publicly available only for a limited time.
>   
> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96ffentlich-rechtlicher_Rundfunk#Engagement_im_Internet
>   https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depublizieren
> 

I know, but that does not really explain why they bother to block
third-party uploads on yt, there are lots of material there hwre they
apparently don't care, like these two quickly collected examples:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhGC1O0gZNI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnH10TfhkOQ

> We had cases of self-censoring which led to depublication. I remember
> the song "Meine Oma ist 'ne alte Umweltsau" (= "My granny is an old
> environmental hog"), sung by a children choir and produced by TV station
> WDR in 2019. That video was retracted after conservative politicians
> complained about the insult towards their main voter group.
>   https://www.sueddeutsche.de/medien/wdr-umweltsau-kinderchor-satire-1.4738637

Yeah, I remember that one, and particularly its aftermath; is there an
English word for "Realsatire"? Priceless! :-)

Still seems to be available on yt, though.

> 
> But i really do not see any such censoring with the video about
> environmental problems with electrical cars. It was aired and then
> available for two months. Business as good or bad as ever.

Sure, I agree about that. For some reason they care enough to make yt
block the video for Germany, but that has nothing to do with
"censorship". It think it might even be possible that they found enough
factual errors in the film that they prefer to withdraw it.

Regards

Michael

.-.. .. ...- .   .-.. --- -. --.   .- -. -..   .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-.

Vulcans never bluff.
-- Spock, "The Doomsday Machine", stardate 4202.1

Re: [Off topic] videos of german state TV, was Re: HTML syntax.

[deloptes]

Thomas Schmitt wrote:

> We had cases of self-censoring which led to depublication. I remember
> the song "Meine Oma ist 'ne alte Umweltsau" (= "My granny is an old
> environmental hog"), sung by a children choir and produced by TV station
> WDR in 2019. That video was retracted after conservative politicians
> complained about the insult towards their main voter group.
>
https://www.sueddeutsche.de/medien/wdr-umweltsau-kinderchor-satire-1.4738637
> 
> But i really do not see any such censoring with the video about
> environmental problems with electrical cars. It was aired and then
> available for two months. Business as good or bad as ever.

But it was on youtube and was removed and I could not find it

Re: [Off topic] videos of german state TV, was Re: HTML syntax.

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Michael Lange wrote:
> Oddly, it seems like the German public TV station ZDF blocked the video
> for Germany due to "intellectual property rights" which are not explained
> any further.

The reason for not eternally offering videos for download is in the legal
framework of german state TV. (In german: "Rundfunkstaatsvertrag", now
"Medienstaatsvertrag".)

State run TV collects mandatory fees from all households for the purpose
of broadcasting radio and TV. When the internet became important for
publishing, the private german newspaper publishers and TV stations
objected that the state run TV used those fees for financing a strong
web appearance. The compromise, which is now law, was the rule that
videos and audio are publicly available only for a limited time.
  
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96ffentlich-rechtlicher_Rundfunk#Engagement_im_Internet
  https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depublizieren

We had cases of self-censoring which led to depublication. I remember
the song "Meine Oma ist 'ne alte Umweltsau" (= "My granny is an old
environmental hog"), sung by a children choir and produced by TV station
WDR in 2019. That video was retracted after conservative politicians
complained about the insult towards their main voter group.
  https://www.sueddeutsche.de/medien/wdr-umweltsau-kinderchor-satire-1.4738637

But i really do not see any such censoring with the video about
environmental problems with electrical cars. It was aired and then
available for two months. Business as good or bad as ever.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: [Off topic] videos of german state TV, was Re: HTML syntax.

[Michael Lange]

Hi,

On Wed, 05 May 2021 09:16:55 +0200
deloptes  wrote:

> Michael Lange wrote:
> 
> > now I got curious too.
> > Oddly, it seems like the German public TV station ZDF blocked the
> > video for Germany due to "intellectual property rights" which are not
> > explained any further. Maybe the real copyright holders still hope to
> > earn money by somehow selling their documentary to the audience.
> 
> You are saying you can not open the link (may be better to say watch the
> video) in Germany?!
> But this is not ZDF video - it is ARTE documentary. 
> Please share information. I am sitting in Austria and I can watch and I
> am downloading right now.
> 

as I said, it is blocked in Germany, and according to what yt says it
looks like ZDF holds copyrights for Germany.
My guess is that the film was produced by some third party and the German
copyrights were purchased by ZDF and then passed on to Arte (it is not
unusual that ZDF produced material is actually shown on Arte, there is
obviously some sort of cooperation between those two). Maybe it was even
some sort of international co-production. Personally I don't care enough
to further investigate, you can certainly see the details during the
closing credits.
But all this is really far off-topic here, so i guess this discussion
should better come to an end.
I hope you enjoy the film!

Regards

Michael


.-.. .. ...- .   .-.. --- -. --.   .- -. -..   .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-.

There is a multi-legged creature crawling on your shoulder.
-- Spock, "A Taste of Armageddon", stardate 3193.9

Re: [Off topic] videos of german state TV, was Re: HTML syntax.

[deloptes]

Michael Lange wrote:

> now I got curious too.
> Oddly, it seems like the German public TV station ZDF blocked the video
> for Germany due to "intellectual property rights" which are not explained
> any further. Maybe the real copyright holders still hope to earn money by
> somehow selling their documentary to the audience.

You are saying you can not open the link (may be better to say watch the
video) in Germany?!
But this is not ZDF video - it is ARTE documentary. 
Please share information. I am sitting in Austria and I can watch and I am
downloading right now.

Re: [Off topic] videos of german state TV, was Re: HTML syntax.

[deloptes]

Felmon Davis wrote:

> I got intrigued (and again apologies for my error!) and weird but I
> found it here: .
> 
> I'm pretty sure it's the right video but check.
> 
> also I wonder if the link will work for you.

Cool. This is great help - THANK YOU! Downloading now. And for the future, I
will be downloading all the videos. I have been downloading only from time
to time.

The question remains - was it removed on purpose and why the
Green-Lobby-Trolls have their videos online.

The link works, I am not in China :) thanks again

Re: [Off topic] videos of german state TV, was Re: HTML syntax.

[Michael Lange]

Hi,

On Wed, 5 May 2021 01:06:30 +0200 (CEST)
Felmon Davis  wrote:

> On Tue, 4 May 2021, deloptes wrote:
> 
> > Felmon Davis wrote:
> >
> >> you can view it on youtube (if that's compliant with your principles)
> >> at 
> >
> > this is exactly the problem - the original video is not there, but
> > the one where someone comments on the video is there
> 
> I got intrigued (and again apologies for my error!) and weird but I 
> found it here: .
> 
> I'm pretty sure it's the right video but check.
> 
> also I wonder if the link will work for you.

now I got curious too. 
Oddly, it seems like the German public TV station ZDF blocked the video
for Germany due to "intellectual property rights" which are not explained
any further. Maybe the real copyright holders still hope to earn money by
somehow selling their documentary to the audience.

Regards

Michael


.-.. .. ...- .   .-.. --- -. --.   .- -. -..   .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-.

Suffocating together ... would create heroic camaraderie.
-- Khan Noonian Singh, "Space Seed", stardate 3142.8

Re: [Off topic] videos of german state TV, was Re: HTML syntax.

[Felmon Davis]

On Tue, 4 May 2021, deloptes wrote:


Felmon Davis wrote:


you can view it on youtube (if that's compliant with your principles)
at 


this is exactly the problem - the original video is not there, but the one
where someone comments on the video is there


I got intrigued (and again apologies for my error!) and weird but I 
found it here: .


I'm pretty sure it's the right video but check.

also I wonder if the link will work for you.

f.

--
Felmon Davis

Verbum sat sapienti.

Re: [Off topic] videos of german state TV, was Re: HTML syntax.

[Felmon Davis]

On Tue, 4 May 2021, deloptes wrote:


Felmon Davis wrote:


you can view it on youtube (if that's compliant with your principles)
at 


this is exactly the problem - the original video is not there, but the one
where someone comments on the video is there


ah, my error!

f.

--
Felmon Davis

Verbum sat sapienti.

Re: [Off topic] videos of german state TV, was Re: HTML syntax.

[deloptes]

Felmon Davis wrote:

> you can view it on youtube (if that's compliant with your principles)
> at 

this is exactly the problem - the original video is not there, but the one
where someone comments on the video is there

Re: [Off topic] videos of german state TV, was Re: HTML syntax.

[Felmon Davis]

On Tue, 4 May 2021, Thomas Schmitt wrote:


Hi,

deloptes wrote:

I just tried to find a video on ARTE


You believe french-german state TV ?



I watched some time ago. Video was called "Umweltsünder E-Auto?"


For the non-germans: = "Environmental Sinner E-Car ?".

(It was a bit exaggerated as in several other documentaries of ARTE,
but also pointed out the problems in the overall environmental balance
sheet of battery driven indivual transport.)



They were forced to remove it :/ from their mediathek and from youtube


German State TV is only allowed to offer its videos for a limited time.
In the case of a documentary it's 12 months. But the usual live span is
only 7 days.
 https://www.daserste.de/specials/ueber-uns/verweildauer-100.html
 Sections "Rundfunkstaatsvertrag" and "Auch mehr als 7 Tage"

The video in question was available from 24 november 2020 to 22 January
2021. This is mentioned in a follow-up audio critique by german state radio:
 
https://www.swr.de/swr2/film-und-serie/umweltsuender-e-auto-unnoetig-verteufelt-100.html


Have a nice day :)

Thomas




you can view it on youtube (if that's compliant with your principles) 
at 


fjd

--
Felmon Davis

Verbum sat sapienti.

[Off topic] videos of german state TV, was Re: HTML syntax.

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

deloptes wrote:
> I just tried to find a video on ARTE

You believe french-german state TV ?


> I watched some time ago. Video was called "Umweltsünder E-Auto?"

For the non-germans: = "Environmental Sinner E-Car ?".

(It was a bit exaggerated as in several other documentaries of ARTE,
but also pointed out the problems in the overall environmental balance
sheet of battery driven indivual transport.)


> They were forced to remove it :/ from their mediathek and from youtube

German State TV is only allowed to offer its videos for a limited time.
In the case of a documentary it's 12 months. But the usual live span is
only 7 days.
  https://www.daserste.de/specials/ueber-uns/verweildauer-100.html
  Sections "Rundfunkstaatsvertrag" and "Auch mehr als 7 Tage"

The video in question was available from 24 november 2020 to 22 January
2021. This is mentioned in a follow-up audio critique by german state radio:
  
https://www.swr.de/swr2/film-und-serie/umweltsuender-e-auto-unnoetig-verteufelt-100.html


Have a nice day :)

Thomas