Re: Attempt to run debootstrap

[David Wright]

On Thu 23 Feb 2017 at 08:21:43 (-0500), Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Thursday 23 February 2017 06:10:44 to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 10:58:49AM +, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > > On Wednesday 22 February 2017 17:32:46 Richard Owlett wrote:
> > > > Learn to love apt-get. I does some things more conveniently than a
> > > > GUI can. YMMV ;!
> > >
> > > aptitude is great on the command line.  And does some things (but
> > > not all) more conveniently than apt-get. Besides, it is NOT a GUI
> > > application.  It can be run as a TUI. 
> >
> > Most definitely. I use both: for search and show, I love aptitude
> > (perhaps some familiarity factor). For install/remove I use apt-get:
> > its more simple-minded resolution algorithm is essential to cope
> > with the Frankendebian horror shows I tend to throw at it (aptitude
> > tends to ponder for a while and proposes to rip out 3/4 of that
> > mess :-)
> 
> Unfortunately, for me aptitude has elected to rip out something like 272 
> packages too many times, some of which were the heart of the os. I let 
> it do it once on a machine I could afford to lose.  I had to reinstall. 
> Its caused me to do 3 re-installs, so I might look at what it says, but 
> then I reboot the machine from another terminal because one of those 
> re-installs was caused by a simple q for quit, but it just had to "fix" 
> things before it would quit. By the time I could get to the hdwe reset 
> button it was too late and after the re-install another day or so 
> getting all my data restored via my amanda backups. The point is that 
> aptitude did NOT show me what it was about to do until it was doing it.
> 
> So I am very cautious about telling aptitude to do _anything_ that would 
> cause a disk write other that a refresh from the servers.

Yes, Gene, we are well aware that aptitude, like network-manager,
"usually doesn't work", and that the partitioner cannot be bypassed in
the debian-installer, and that xterm is unusable, and that mutt should
be replaced by a more modern intelligent MUA.

Less than a year ago, you maintained that aptitude could only be run
in curses and only as root, but were running it for 18 years in a
misconfigured terminal that left stale text on the screen so that you
had difficulty discerning its actions and intentions.

While trying to remove/upgrade an entire architecture (amd64) that you
regretted having installed, you posted that aptitude was displaying a
long list of packages marked "id" (installed packages for removal).
You said that you didn't understand that list because you hadn't got
a reference manual.

Advised to take a closer look, and to reset some in the list to "ii"
and prevent their removal, you said that your methodology was to just
let it rip and see what happens.

A few days later, you were adamant that typing "q" at some point had
made aptitude remove half your system, and you seemed surprised that
there was some disbelief here.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Attempt to run debootstrap

[Darac Marjal]

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 08:21:43AM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Thursday 23 February 2017 06:10:44 to...@tuxteam.de wrote:


On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 10:58:49AM +, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Wednesday 22 February 2017 17:32:46 Richard Owlett wrote:
> > Learn to love apt-get. I does some things more conveniently than a
> > GUI can. YMMV ;!
>
> aptitude is great on the command line.  And does some things (but
> not all) more conveniently than apt-get. Besides, it is NOT a GUI
> application.  It can be run as a TUI. 

Most definitely. I use both: for search and show, I love aptitude
(perhaps some familiarity factor). For install/remove I use apt-get:
its more simple-minded resolution algorithm is essential to cope
with the Frankendebian horror shows I tend to throw at it (aptitude
tends to ponder for a while and proposes to rip out 3/4 of that
mess :-)


Unfortunately, for me aptitude has elected to rip out something like 272
packages too many times, some of which were the heart of the os. I let
it do it once on a machine I could afford to lose.  I had to reinstall.
Its caused me to do 3 re-installs, so I might look at what it says, but
then I reboot the machine from another terminal because one of those
re-installs was caused by a simple q for quit, but it just had to "fix"
things before it would quit. By the time I could get to the hdwe reset
button it was too late and after the re-install another day or so
getting all my data restored via my amanda backups. The point is that
aptitude did NOT show me what it was about to do until it was doing it.


That's odd. If you're in the TUI, aptitude should give you a list of 
actions on the first press of 'g' and only start the actions on the 
second press of 'g'.


Ah... You CAN turn these prompts on and off.

For the TUI, the option is "Aptitude::Display-Planned-Action" (default 
is on).  For the CLI, there is " Aptitude::CmdLine::Always-Prompt" 
(default is *off*).




So I am very cautious about telling aptitude to do _anything_ that would
cause a disk write other that a refresh from the servers.


So love to both. And they regularly grow features seen on the other.

regards
-- t



Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



--
For more information, please reread.

Re: Attempt to run debootstrap

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 08:21:43AM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Thursday 23 February 2017 06:10:44 to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 10:58:49AM +, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > > On Wednesday 22 February 2017 17:32:46 Richard Owlett wrote:
> > > > Learn to love apt-get. I does some things more conveniently than a
> > > > GUI can. YMMV ;!
> > >
> > > aptitude is great on the command line.  And does some things (but
> > > not all) more conveniently than apt-get. Besides, it is NOT a GUI
> > > application.  It can be run as a TUI. 
> >
> > Most definitely. I use both: for search and show, I love aptitude
> > (perhaps some familiarity factor). For install/remove I use apt-get:
> > its more simple-minded resolution algorithm is essential to cope
> > with the Frankendebian horror shows I tend to throw at it (aptitude
> > tends to ponder for a while and proposes to rip out 3/4 of that
> > mess :-)
> 
> Unfortunately, for me aptitude has elected to rip out something like 272 
> packages too many times, some of which were the heart of the os. I let 
> it do it once on a machine I could afford to lose.  I had to reinstall. 

[...]

Fortunately, I have a nice tip for you there: enter aptitude's "-s"
option, meaning "simulate". To go extra sure, you can invoke it as
a regular user (it really works then -- as opposed to some other
programs we have discussed a couple of moons ago ;-P

You can do as a regular user:

  tomas@rasputin:~$ aptitude -s install wordpress
  The following NEW packages will be installed:
apache2{a} apache2-bin{a} apache2-data{a} libapache2-mod-php5{a} 
libaprutil1-dbd-sqlite3{a} libaprutil1-ldap{a} libjs-cropper{a} 
libjs-mediaelement{a} libjs-prototype{a} libjs-scriptaculous{a} 
libjson-c2{a} libonig2{a} libphp-phpmailer{a} libqdbm14{a} 
mysql-client{a} mysql-client-5.5{a} php-getid3{a} php5-cli{a} 
php5-common{a} php5-gd{a} php5-json{a} php5-mysql{a} wordpress 
wordpress-theme-twentyfifteen{a} 
  The following packages are RECOMMENDED but will NOT be installed:
php5-readline wordpress-l10n 
  0 packages upgraded, 24 newly installed, 0 to remove and 488 not upgraded.
  Need to get 13.3 MB/13.3 MB of archives. After unpacking 83.9 MB will be used.
  Do you want to continue? [Y/n/?] 

and enter "y" with impunity. No wordpress (phew ;^)

Then, aptitude has no chance to touch your holy package databases.

But I don't use it for that. I appreciate search, show, why and a
couple of other subcommands, which I invoke as a regular user.

Enjoy
- -- t
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6ucAoIAkjtXqcauf2l8EbhSP558mnrUm
=3/Pv
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Re: Attempt to run debootstrap

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 23 February 2017 06:10:44 to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 10:58:49AM +, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > On Wednesday 22 February 2017 17:32:46 Richard Owlett wrote:
> > > Learn to love apt-get. I does some things more conveniently than a
> > > GUI can. YMMV ;!
> >
> > aptitude is great on the command line.  And does some things (but
> > not all) more conveniently than apt-get. Besides, it is NOT a GUI
> > application.  It can be run as a TUI. 
>
> Most definitely. I use both: for search and show, I love aptitude
> (perhaps some familiarity factor). For install/remove I use apt-get:
> its more simple-minded resolution algorithm is essential to cope
> with the Frankendebian horror shows I tend to throw at it (aptitude
> tends to ponder for a while and proposes to rip out 3/4 of that
> mess :-)

Unfortunately, for me aptitude has elected to rip out something like 272 
packages too many times, some of which were the heart of the os. I let 
it do it once on a machine I could afford to lose.  I had to reinstall. 
Its caused me to do 3 re-installs, so I might look at what it says, but 
then I reboot the machine from another terminal because one of those 
re-installs was caused by a simple q for quit, but it just had to "fix" 
things before it would quit. By the time I could get to the hdwe reset 
button it was too late and after the re-install another day or so 
getting all my data restored via my amanda backups. The point is that 
aptitude did NOT show me what it was about to do until it was doing it.

So I am very cautious about telling aptitude to do _anything_ that would 
cause a disk write other that a refresh from the servers.

> So love to both. And they regularly grow features seen on the other.
>
> regards
> -- t


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Attempt to run debootstrap

[Mark Fletcher]

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 10:58:49AM +, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Wednesday 22 February 2017 17:32:46 Richard Owlett wrote:
> > Learn to love apt-get. I does some things more conveniently than a GUI
> > can. YMMV ;!
> 
> aptitude is great on the command line.  And does some things (but not all) 
> more conveniently than apt-get. Besides, it is NOT a GUI application.  It can 
> be run as a TUI. 
> 
Hear Hear!

Re: Attempt to run debootstrap

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 10:58:49AM +, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Wednesday 22 February 2017 17:32:46 Richard Owlett wrote:
> > Learn to love apt-get. I does some things more conveniently than a GUI
> > can. YMMV ;!
> 
> aptitude is great on the command line.  And does some things (but not all) 
> more conveniently than apt-get. Besides, it is NOT a GUI application.  It can 
> be run as a TUI. 

Most definitely. I use both: for search and show, I love aptitude
(perhaps some familiarity factor). For install/remove I use apt-get:
its more simple-minded resolution algorithm is essential to cope
with the Frankendebian horror shows I tend to throw at it (aptitude
tends to ponder for a while and proposes to rip out 3/4 of that
mess :-)

So love to both. And they regularly grow features seen on the other.

regards
- -- t
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)

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GGcAnAiIZuSSfFshIAd6CPXwdNL46qwr
=zb1w
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: Attempt to run debootstrap

[Lisi Reisz]

On Wednesday 22 February 2017 17:32:46 Richard Owlett wrote:
> Learn to love apt-get. I does some things more conveniently than a GUI
> can. YMMV ;!

aptitude is great on the command line.  And does some things (but not all) 
more conveniently than apt-get. Besides, it is NOT a GUI application.  It can 
be run as a TUI. 

Lisi

Re: Attempt to run debootstrap

[Lisi Reisz]

On Wednesday 22 February 2017 16:14:28 Cindy-Sue Causey wrote:
> (GUI) packages such as aptitude

Hey!  aptitude has got a TUI, but *not* a GUI, and many of us run it on the 
command line.

Lisi

Re: Attempt to run debootstrap

[Richard Owlett]

On 02/22/2017 10:14 AM, Cindy-Sue Causey wrote:

On 2/22/17, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI  wrote:

On Qua, 22 Fev 2017, Richard Owlett wrote:


I wish to use debootstrap to make a minimal but functional install of
Debian to /dev/sda9.

It did not create a line on the boot menu to run the Debian on
/dev/sda9 .


Nor it is expected that it would.



What Eduardo says... If you've never run debootstrap before, it is
absolute bottom dollar, bottom shelf. Very little comes with.
Eduardo's next step, which I've never had to do manually but can
understand the process, will help get it recognized.


Specifying a valid package name got be a lot farther.
I now get useful error messages.
He had snipped my first paragraph where I said that the machine in 
question has no internet connectivity and am using set of physical 
install DVDs.






As reference [4] says "...your new system has no kernel installed and
is also missing ..." The instructions it gives are not
suitable for my environment.

Can someone recommend a reference that covers my circumstances?
TIA


chroot to the new install and install a kernel normally (apt-get
install linux-image-amd64 or similar).

Install os-prober if don't already have it in the main system (the one
that houses grub), then update-grub should find the new OS.


My installed grub has everything. I routinely have multiple instances of 
Debian on my machine. The underlying motivation for doing things the 
hard/inconvenient way is educational.





If your new OS is still not recognized for any reason, the shortcut
(until further debugging) would be to add a line to your
/etc/grub.d/40_custom file.

BUT because you're adding this to a partition, that shouldn't be
necessary. update-grub should find it once Eduardo's suggestion is
followed. I just did a quick check on mine, and os-prober is already
in there for mine without conscious intervention (but the experience
for others may vary).

This all will come from whatever debootstrap installation step tells
you to "apt-cache search linux-image" to find the linux-image that
matches your chosen release.

For those who haven't tried debootstrap yet and are possibly cringing
at apt-get, that command line interface method *is* about all you have
at that point because other (GUI) packages such as aptitude and
synaptic are not yet installed until you do so manually.


Learn to love apt-get. I does some things more conveniently than a GUI 
can. YMMV ;!




AND... those STILL will not work until you've gone through the steps
of choosing and installing a desktop environment/login manager, server
initiali(s/z)ation tool, yada-yada. You get to learn all kinds of new
terms. The entire experience can take several days if you're running
on dialup access with no in-house/onsite repository.

debootstrap... Feel The Power! :)

Cindy :)



Seeing your name had reminded me you had recommended  Appendix D. 3 of 
the Installation Manual ~2 years ago. I wasn't ready for it then. In the 
first page it is covering the specific problems/opportunities I'm 
currently facing :}

Re: Attempt to run debootstrap

[Cindy-Sue Causey]

On 2/22/17, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI  wrote:
> On Qua, 22 Fev 2017, Richard Owlett wrote:
>
>> I wish to use debootstrap to make a minimal but functional install of
>> Debian to /dev/sda9.
>>
>> It did not create a line on the boot menu to run the Debian on
>> /dev/sda9 .
>
> Nor it is expected that it would.


What Eduardo says... If you've never run debootstrap before, it is
absolute bottom dollar, bottom shelf. Very little comes with.
Eduardo's next step, which I've never had to do manually but can
understand the process, will help get it recognized.


>> As reference [4] says "...your new system has no kernel installed and
>> is also missing ..." The instructions it gives are not
>> suitable for my environment.
>>
>> Can someone recommend a reference that covers my circumstances?
>> TIA
>
> chroot to the new install and install a kernel normally (apt-get
> install linux-image-amd64 or similar).
>
> Install os-prober if don't already have it in the main system (the one
> that houses grub), then update-grub should find the new OS.


If your new OS is still not recognized for any reason, the shortcut
(until further debugging) would be to add a line to your
/etc/grub.d/40_custom file.

BUT because you're adding this to a partition, that shouldn't be
necessary. update-grub should find it once Eduardo's suggestion is
followed. I just did a quick check on mine, and os-prober is already
in there for mine without conscious intervention (but the experience
for others may vary).

This all will come from whatever debootstrap installation step tells
you to "apt-cache search linux-image" to find the linux-image that
matches your chosen release.

For those who haven't tried debootstrap yet and are possibly cringing
at apt-get, that command line interface method *is* about all you have
at that point because other (GUI) packages such as aptitude and
synaptic are not yet installed until you do so manually.

AND... those STILL will not work until you've gone through the steps
of choosing and installing a desktop environment/login manager, server
initiali(s/z)ation tool, yada-yada. You get to learn all kinds of new
terms. The entire experience can take several days if you're running
on dialup access with no in-house/onsite repository.

debootstrap... Feel The Power! :)

Cindy :)

-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with duct tape *

Re: Attempt to run debootstrap

[Richard Owlett]

On 02/22/2017 08:31 AM, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:

On Qua, 22 Fev 2017, Richard Owlett wrote:


I wish to use debootstrap to make a minimal but functional install of
Debian to /dev/sda9.

It did not create a line on the boot menu to run the Debian on
/dev/sda9 .


Nor it is expected that it would.

<
I *had* expected it until I saw [4].  or possibly  ;/
I can see nothing in either
https://manpages.debian.org/jessie/debootstrap/debootstrap.8.en.html
or
https://wiki.debian.org/Debootstrap
indicating that was not a proper assumption. Yes the second makes use of 
chroot but is not clear to a new user the reason the author found it 
convenient.





As reference [4] says "...your new system has no kernel installed and
is also missing ..." The instructions it gives are not
suitable for my environment.

Can someone recommend a reference that covers my circumstances?
TIA


chroot to the new install and install a kernel normally (apt-get install
linux-image-amd64 or similar).


That got me pointed in the right direction. In my case I want
linux-image-686-pae to match my existing system.

I'm in process of chasing down changes needed to reference local DVD 
rather than the ftp site.




Install os-prober if don't already have it in the main system (the one
that houses grub), then update-grub should find the new OS.


os-prober is installed and functioning on the existing systems. As part 
of my self-educations and trouble shooting I've had as many as 4 
instances of Debian on my hard drive at one time.


Thank you.

Re: Attempt to run debootstrap

[Eduardo M KALINOWSKI]

On Qua, 22 Fev 2017, Richard Owlett wrote:


I wish to use debootstrap to make a minimal but functional install of
Debian to /dev/sda9.

It did not create a line on the boot menu to run the Debian on
/dev/sda9 .


Nor it is expected that it would.


As reference [4] says "...your new system has no kernel installed and
is also missing ..." The instructions it gives are not
suitable for my environment.

Can someone recommend a reference that covers my circumstances?
TIA


chroot to the new install and install a kernel normally (apt-get  
install linux-image-amd64 or similar).


Install os-prober if don't already have it in the main system (the one  
that houses grub), then update-grub should find the new OS.



--
Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
edua...@kalinowski.com.br

Attempt to run debootstrap

[Richard Owlett]

I have a machine with Debian Jessie {MATE DE} installed.
I have a full set of Debian Jessie install DVDs.
This machine has *NO* internet connectivity.

I wish to use debootstrap to make a minimal but functional install of
Debian to /dev/sda9.

The available references include:
[1] https://wiki.debian.org/chroot

[2] https://wiki.debian.org/Debootstrap

[3] https://manpages.debian.org/jessie/debootstrap/debootstrap.8.en.html

[4] 
https://debian-administration.org/article/433/Mounting_things_in_multiple_locations

[5] 
https://debian-administration.org/article/426/Installing_new_Debian_systems_with_debootstrap

[6] 
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/debian-26/how-to-install-debian-using-debootstrap-4175465295/

[7] http://shallowsky.com/blog/linux/install/debootstrap.html

What I've done so far {using root privileges} is:

# create a local repository on hard disk for convenience
mkdir /mnt/all
mount -t ext2 /dev/sda7 /mnt/all
xorriso -osirrox on:auto_chmod_on -overwrite nondir \
-indev /dev/sr0 \
-extract / /media/richard/all/tst1
sync

mkdir /mnt/owl1
mount -t ext2 /dev/sda9 /mnt/owl1
debootstrap --no-check-gpg stable /mnt/owl1 file:///mnt/all/tst1
sync
update-grub

The output when running update-grub was:
Generating grub configuration file ...
Found background image: /usr/share/images/desktop-base/desktop-grub.png
Found linux image: /boot/vmlinuz-3.16.0-4-686-pae
Found initrd image: /boot/initrd.img-3.16.0-4-686-pae
Found Debian GNU/Linux (8.6) on /dev/sda9
done
root@mate-full:/home/richard#

It did not create a line on the boot menu to run the Debian on
/dev/sda9 .

As reference [4] says "...your new system has no kernel installed and
is also missing ..." The instructions it gives are not
suitable for my environment.

Can someone recommend a reference that covers my circumstances?
TIA