Re: BGP

[Igor Grobman]

Just a note:  AFAIK debs.fuller.edu does distribute gated .debs
 
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Re: BGP

[Manoj Srivastava]

Hi,
>>"Stephen" == Stephen Zedalis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Stephen> On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Scott Ellis wrote:
>> Nope.  You need to sign a licence to distribute it at all
>> (including in non-free) and Debian isn't willing to sign the
>> licence (and you can't just have "someone else" sign the licence
>> and then upload it to non-free).

Stephen> Hmm... Isn't it for things like this that the Debian board
Stephen> was created? And if the license is free, why don't they want
Stephen> to sign it?

How can you say the licence is free? It seems abaout as
 restricitve as they can get without getting commercial. (free is not
 for no cost in this context)

Stephen> The current bo distribution has several packages
Stephen> of software that is just as dubious in licensing and of
Stephen> possibly less usefulness.  merit-radius is just such an
Stephen> example.  As far as I know it is commercial-ware put out by
Stephen> Merit.

If this is the case, this is a major bug in the distribution. 

Stephen> This is starting to smack of the same problems that
Stephen> the various BSD flavors have, ie. a particular committee
Stephen> slowly making decisions "for the public good" but seemingly
Stephen> out of touch with users needs.

Well, since this committee is doing all the work, and you know
 what they are getting paid for it, I think they have a right, don't
 you? (the committee in question is the set of people who work on
 Debian, and public good has nothing to do with it) 

manoj
-- 
 The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the
 blood of patriots and tyrants.  It is its natural manure.  -- Thomas
 Jefferson
Manoj Srivastava  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Key C7261095 fingerprint = CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05  CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E


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Re: BGP

[Scott Ellis]

On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Stephen Zedalis wrote:

> On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Scott Ellis wrote:
> 
> >Nope.  You need to sign a licence to distribute it at all (including in
> >non-free) and Debian isn't willing to sign the licence (and you can't just
> >have "someone else" sign the licence and then upload it to non-free).
> 
> Hmm... Isn't it for things like this that the Debian board was created?
> And if the license is free, why don't they want to sign it?  The current
> bo distribution has several packages of software that is just as dubious
> in licensing and of possibly less usefulness.  merit-radius is just such
> an example.  As far as I know it is commercial-ware put out by Merit.
> This is starting to smack of the same problems that the various BSD
> flavors have, ie. a particular committee slowly making decisions "for the
> public good" but seemingly out of touch with users needs.

Debian and SPI have made a deliberate decision to NOT sign any licence.
Did you read the social contract and Debian Free Software Guidelines
(DFSG)?  Signing a license is against everything we stand for.

-- 
Scott K. Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
http://www.gate.net/~storm/


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Re: BGP

[Stephen Zedalis]

On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Scott Ellis wrote:

>Nope.  You need to sign a licence to distribute it at all (including in
>non-free) and Debian isn't willing to sign the licence (and you can't just
>have "someone else" sign the licence and then upload it to non-free).

Hmm... Isn't it for things like this that the Debian board was created?
And if the license is free, why don't they want to sign it?  The current
bo distribution has several packages of software that is just as dubious
in licensing and of possibly less usefulness.  merit-radius is just such
an example.  As far as I know it is commercial-ware put out by Merit.
This is starting to smack of the same problems that the various BSD
flavors have, ie. a particular committee slowly making decisions "for the
public good" but seemingly out of touch with users needs.

>> gated is too important to NOT do it at all.
>
>While gated is important, it is more important for Debian to adhere to its
>stated policies and goals which are located at:
>   http://www.debian.org/social_contract.html
>Gated source is out there, if you need it you can compile it and install
>it yourself (or build yourself a Debian package of it for your own use).

Good suggestions, but not having a robust routing daemon is gonna hurt in
the long run for many applications.  If Debian is dead set against gated,
they need to look into incorporating alternatives with less onerous
licensing, and/or supporting the development of alternatives.  Maybe
a "GRD Project", (GNU Routing Daemon) or some similar alternative.  Lets 
face it - routed sucks even for RIP and if we want to do cool things with
IPv4 and IPv6 in the future, a routing daemon is going to be invaluable in
the long run.  Another problem is that the policies of the current Gated
Consortium suck.  They certainly are catering to big business, the only
versions that are available without substantial contributions for source
and distribution rights is the 3.x versions.  And whenever you report a
problem in 3.x, they recommend a newer version.  This is one of those
things that cries for a GPL'd alternative.




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Re: BGP

[Scott Ellis]

On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Stephen Zedalis wrote:

> On Mon, 23 Feb 1998, Joel Klecker wrote:
> 
> >gated, but there is no Debian package for it due to licensing[1] (there was
> >talk of doing an installer package, but nothing ever came of it). gated is
> >available at .
> >
> >[1] The gated consortium requires that groups who wish to distribute gated
> >apply for a distribution license, such a license is free, but the DFSG
> >requires that a license not be specifically for Debian.
> 
> Ok, but then it belongs in non-free right?

Nope.  You need to sign a licence to distribute it at all (including in
non-free) and Debian isn't willing to sign the licence (and you can't just
have "someone else" sign the licence and then upload it to non-free).

> gated is too important to NOT do it at all.

While gated is important, it is more important for Debian to adhere to its
stated policies and goals which are located at:
http://www.debian.org/social_contract.html

Gated source is out there, if you need it you can compile it and install
it yourself (or build yourself a Debian package of it for your own use).

-- 
Scott K. Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.gate.net/~storm/


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Re: BGP

[Stephen Zedalis]

On Mon, 23 Feb 1998, Peter Paluch wrote:

>Hello, friends,
>===
>
>I would like to ask - is there any package which enables routing using
>BGP (Border Gateway Protocol) ? I know that there is routed, but it
>doesn't seem to be able to use BGP.

gated, but there doesn't seem to be a debian package for it.  RedHat is
packaging gated now in 5.0.




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Re: BGP

[Stephen Zedalis]

On Mon, 23 Feb 1998, Joel Klecker wrote:

>gated, but there is no Debian package for it due to licensing[1] (there was
>talk of doing an installer package, but nothing ever came of it). gated is
>available at .
>
>[1] The gated consortium requires that groups who wish to distribute gated
>apply for a distribution license, such a license is free, but the DFSG
>requires that a license not be specifically for Debian.

Ok, but then it belongs in non-free right?

gated is too important to NOT do it at all.




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Re: BGP

[Joel Klecker]

At 19:22 -0600 1998-02-23, Jeff Noxon wrote:
>On Mon, Feb 23, 1998 at 02:36:16PM -0800, Joel Klecker wrote:
>> At 20:23 +0100 1998-02-23, Peter Paluch wrote:
>> >I would like to ask - is there any package which enables routing using
>> >BGP (Border Gateway Protocol) ? I know that there is routed, but it
>> >doesn't seem to be able to use BGP.
>> 
>> gated, but there is no Debian package for it due to licensing[1] (there was
>> talk of doing an installer package, but nothing ever came of it). gated is
>> available at .
>> 
>> [1] The gated consortium requires that groups who wish to distribute gated
>> apply for a distribution license, such a license is free, but the DFSG
>> requires that a license not be specifically for Debian.
>
>Could we then apply for a license and put it in non-free?  It makes sense
>to me...  People keep asking for gated.  I'd like to play with it myself.

I mentioned this on IRC (irc.debian.org; #debian) and here's the response:
17:44:58:  * Espy notes that someone on -user asked about something capable of BGP, I mentioned gated(along with the distribution license stuff), someone else mailed me wondering why someone doesn't get a license and put a gated package in non-free. Should I bring this up in -devel again?
17:45:55:  Espy:  because a key part of gated has a license that you have to sign, to distribute it
17:46:17:  Espy:  this is what prompted debian to form a formal board of directors, who then decided debian wasnt going to sign any such document -- 
Joel "Espy" KleckerDebian GNU/Linux Developer
   
God shows his contempt for wealth by the kind of person He selects to
receive it.  -- Austin O'Malley (1858-1952)

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Re: BGP

[Jeff Noxon]

On Mon, Feb 23, 1998 at 02:36:16PM -0800, Joel Klecker wrote:
> At 20:23 +0100 1998-02-23, Peter Paluch wrote:
> >I would like to ask - is there any package which enables routing using
> >BGP (Border Gateway Protocol) ? I know that there is routed, but it
> >doesn't seem to be able to use BGP.
> 
> gated, but there is no Debian package for it due to licensing[1] (there was
> talk of doing an installer package, but nothing ever came of it). gated is
> available at <http://www.gated.org/>.
> 
> [1] The gated consortium requires that groups who wish to distribute gated
> apply for a distribution license, such a license is free, but the DFSG
> requires that a license not be specifically for Debian.

Could we then apply for a license and put it in non-free?  It makes sense
to me...  People keep asking for gated.  I'd like to play with it myself.

Otherwise, perhaps some individual could apply for a license and then
redistribute a .deb via FTP or HTTP.

Jeff


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Re: BGP

[Miquel van Smoorenburg]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Joel Klecker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>At 20:23 +0100 1998-02-23, Peter Paluch wrote:
>>I would like to ask - is there any package which enables routing using
>>BGP (Border Gateway Protocol) ? I know that there is routed, but it
>>doesn't seem to be able to use BGP.
>
>gated, but there is no Debian package for it due to licensing[1] (there was
>talk of doing an installer package, but nothing ever came of it). gated is
>available at <http://www.gated.org/>.

There are 2 more packages under development that speak bgp:

1. MRT, see http://www.merit.edu/net-research/
2. Zebra, see http://www.zebra.org/

Both are not as mature as gated but look promising.

I am still waiting for both of them to get OSPF support, but that will
probably take a lot longer ..

Mike.
-- 
 Miquel van Smoorenburg |  The dyslexic, agnostic, insomniac lay in his bed
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  |  awake all night wondering if there is a doG


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Re: BGP

[Joel Klecker]

At 20:23 +0100 1998-02-23, Peter Paluch wrote:
>I would like to ask - is there any package which enables routing using
>BGP (Border Gateway Protocol) ? I know that there is routed, but it
>doesn't seem to be able to use BGP.

gated, but there is no Debian package for it due to licensing[1] (there was
talk of doing an installer package, but nothing ever came of it). gated is
available at <http://www.gated.org/>.

[1] The gated consortium requires that groups who wish to distribute gated
apply for a distribution license, such a license is free, but the DFSG
requires that a license not be specifically for Debian.

--
Joel "Espy" Klecker Debian GNU/Linux Developer<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<http://www.espy.org/>   <ftp://ftp.espy.org/pub/>

Non-cooperation with evil is as much a duty as cooperation with good.
-- Mohandas Ghandi



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BGP

[Peter Paluch]

Hello, friends,
===

I would like to ask - is there any package which enables routing using
BGP (Border Gateway Protocol) ? I know that there is routed, but it
doesn't seem to be able to use BGP.

Thanks a lot.

Peter
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