Re: Supported Video Cards under Free Software (was: Re: Best Video Card)
On Sat, 2006-04-22 at 12:01 -0400, Manaen Schlabach wrote: > On 4/21/06, Ron Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Fri, 2006-04-21 at 03:37 -0300, Rogério Brito wrote: > > > On Apr 19 2006, Ron Johnson wrote: [snip] > > It seems like everyone agrees that Video card manufacturers really > don't want to give up their 3d stuff and that seems to be the primary > reason we can't get a "good" open source driver. Ideally some video > card manufacturer could be convinced to allow a full driver (to > include the 3d stuff) to be written by the open source community. Intel recently issued a press release saying they were going to do just that. Unfortunately, their video chips are all embedded in their chipsets. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA "What has a tiny brain, a big mouth, and an opinion nobody cares about? You!" from Murphy Brown
Re: Supported Video Cards under Free Software (was: Re: Best Video Card)
On 4/21/06, Ron Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Fri, 2006-04-21 at 03:37 -0300, Rogério Brito wrote: > > On Apr 19 2006, Ron Johnson wrote: > > > Still, if they come out with reasonably priced cards that can do > > > 3D like an NVIDIA FX 5200 using the nvidia binary driver, I'd > > > > How exactly is the performance of such a beast? I have never had the > > opportunity of using a binary driver for video, since I don't need 3D > > and my trusty, old Matrox card is keeping up with my necessities. > > > > But I'm frequently asked (by friends) to recommend hardware that would > > run Linux well and, well, the topic of video cards is where I get most > > undecided... > > > > Thanks for any experiences shared, Rogério. > > Back when I had an NVIDIA TNT2/M64, I installed the nvidia binary > driver, and 3D games flew (relative to my needs, of course). I'm > sure that using the nvidia driver the now-equally-trailing edge FX > 5200 would perform even better. Obviously, the newer cards would > perform even better. > > I recommend nvidia cards to anyone who wants to run Linux, because > it have the very good 2D nv driver, and the 3D nvidia driver. Note > that NVIDIA has a common code-base between the Windows and Linux > drivers, and releases a new version of it every few months. That > says a lot about their commitment to the Linux market. > > -- > - > Ron Johnson, Jr. > Jefferson, LA USA > > "Universal peace sounds ridiculous to the head of an average > family." > Kin Hubbard It seems like everyone agrees that Video card manufacturers really don't want to give up their 3d stuff and that seems to be the primary reason we can't get a "good" open source driver. Ideally some video card manufacturer could be convinced to allow a full driver (to include the 3d stuff) to be written by the open source community. If that isn't possible couldn't there be a set of Object Oriented/open 3d standards? You put x into the card and y will pop out. This would let video card manufacturers move their trade secrets onto the actual video card chips and no one gets to see the magic of how certain things get implemented. They of course couldn't afford to release 3d drivers that are nearly as buggy as the ones they release now if corrections have to be "flashed" onto the video card. Would something like this be feasible or is it an unattainable dream that is beyond technology or might require too many people to play nice together?
Re: Supported Video Cards under Free Software (was: Re: Best Video Card)
On Fri, 2006-04-21 at 03:37 -0300, Rogério Brito wrote: > On Apr 19 2006, Ron Johnson wrote: > > Still, if they come out with reasonably priced cards that can do > > 3D like an NVIDIA FX 5200 using the nvidia binary driver, I'd > > How exactly is the performance of such a beast? I have never had the > opportunity of using a binary driver for video, since I don't need 3D > and my trusty, old Matrox card is keeping up with my necessities. > > But I'm frequently asked (by friends) to recommend hardware that would > run Linux well and, well, the topic of video cards is where I get most > undecided... > > Thanks for any experiences shared, Rogério. Back when I had an NVIDIA TNT2/M64, I installed the nvidia binary driver, and 3D games flew (relative to my needs, of course). I'm sure that using the nvidia driver the now-equally-trailing edge FX 5200 would perform even better. Obviously, the newer cards would perform even better. I recommend nvidia cards to anyone who wants to run Linux, because it have the very good 2D nv driver, and the 3D nvidia driver. Note that NVIDIA has a common code-base between the Windows and Linux drivers, and releases a new version of it every few months. That says a lot about their commitment to the Linux market. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA "Universal peace sounds ridiculous to the head of an average family." Kin Hubbard
Re: Supported Video Cards under Free Software (was: Re: Best Video Card)
On Thursday 20 April 2006 23:37, Rogério Brito wrote: > On Apr 19 2006, Ron Johnson wrote: > > Still, if they come out with reasonably priced cards that can do > > 3D like an NVIDIA FX 5200 using the nvidia binary driver, I'd > > How exactly is the performance of such a beast? I have never had the > opportunity of using a binary driver for video, since I don't need 3D > and my trusty, old Matrox card is keeping up with my necessities. 30-70 fps in 1024x768, all other settings on maximum in UT2004 for Linux. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP & Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabber: Because it's time to move forward http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber pgp7DocqXYXTw.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Supported Video Cards under Free Software (was: Re: Best Video Card)
On Apr 19 2006, Ron Johnson wrote: > Still, if they come out with reasonably priced cards that can do > 3D like an NVIDIA FX 5200 using the nvidia binary driver, I'd How exactly is the performance of such a beast? I have never had the opportunity of using a binary driver for video, since I don't need 3D and my trusty, old Matrox card is keeping up with my necessities. But I'm frequently asked (by friends) to recommend hardware that would run Linux well and, well, the topic of video cards is where I get most undecided... Thanks for any experiences shared, Rogério. -- Rogério Brito : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Homepage of the algorithms package : http://algorithms.berlios.de Homepage on freshmeat: http://freshmeat.net/projects/algorithms/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Supported Video Cards under Free Software (was: Re: Best Video Card)
On Apr 19 2006, Ron Johnson wrote: > When Intel makes "stand-alone" video cards, they'll get more notice > from those of us who don't want on-board video. Actually, between the choices of being able to use the driver even if the card is on-board or not using it (or it having poor support under Free Operating Systems), I'd go with the former. Oh, and before anybody jumps quickly into conclusions, I do prefer off-board video. -- Rogério Brito : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Homepage of the algorithms package : http://algorithms.berlios.de Homepage on freshmeat: http://freshmeat.net/projects/algorithms/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Supported Video Cards under Free Software (was: Re: Best Video Card)
On 4/19/06, Ron Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 2006-04-19 at 16:53 -0700, Xplicit Language wrote: > > i have found a video driver on intel 82810 onboard video on they're > > site at www.intel.com in the downloads and support section, i couldn't > > get it to install since i am new to linux, but it was there. > > When Intel makes "stand-alone" video cards, they'll get more notice > from those of us who don't want on-board video. > > -- > - > Ron Johnson, Jr. > Jefferson, LA USA > > "... going to war without France is like going deer hunting > without an accordion. You just leave a lot of useless noisy > baggage behind." > Jed Babbin, former deputy undersecretary of defense in the first > Bush administration > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > I didn't realize that Intel doesn't make any standalone cards that is most unfortunate if they don't. I was kind of amused by the comment Nvidia made in the ZDNet article that writing a "good" video driver is very hard to do and beyond the capabilities of a bunch of hobbyists/open source community (that's not an exact quote). It sounds just like something I heard in the late 90s I don't remember the quote but I think MS said something to the effect of writing an Operating System was far too complex a task to be done by a bunch of hobbyists and part timers
Re: Supported Video Cards under Free Software (was: Re: Best Video Card)
On Wednesday 19 April 2006 19:34, Ron Johnson wrote: > On Wed, 2006-04-19 at 17:27 -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: > > On Wednesday 19 April 2006 17:08, Ron Johnson wrote: > > > On Wed, 2006-04-19 at 16:53 -0700, Xplicit Language wrote: > > > > i have found a video driver on intel 82810 onboard video on they're > > > > site at www.intel.com in the downloads and support section, i > > > > couldn't get it to install since i am new to linux, but it was there. > > > > > > When Intel makes "stand-alone" video cards, they'll get more notice > > > from those of us who don't want on-board video. > > > > But they do. I distinctly remember installing about a hundred Intel > > i880-based Intel video cards circa 1998. > > "Do" or "did"? ISTR i740 cards, which flopped. Did, and i740 sounds more familiar than 880 in retrospect. > Still, if they come out with reasonably priced cards that can do > 3D like an NVIDIA FX 5200 using the nvidia binary driver, I'd > strongly think about buying one the next time I need one. Which is why I got my hopes up when I heard that. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP & Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabber: Because it's time to move forward http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber pgpY8qs5FOEBN.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Supported Video Cards under Free Software (was: Re: Best Video Card)
On Wed, 2006-04-19 at 17:27 -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: > On Wednesday 19 April 2006 17:08, Ron Johnson wrote: > > On Wed, 2006-04-19 at 16:53 -0700, Xplicit Language wrote: > > > i have found a video driver on intel 82810 onboard video on they're > > > site at www.intel.com in the downloads and support section, i couldn't > > > get it to install since i am new to linux, but it was there. > > > > When Intel makes "stand-alone" video cards, they'll get more notice > > from those of us who don't want on-board video. > > But they do. I distinctly remember installing about a hundred Intel > i880-based Intel video cards circa 1998. "Do" or "did"? ISTR i740 cards, which flopped. Still, if they come out with reasonably priced cards that can do 3D like an NVIDIA FX 5200 using the nvidia binary driver, I'd strongly think about buying one the next time I need one. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA "Though force can protect in emergency, only justice, fairness, consideration and cooperation can finally lead men to the dawn of eternal peace." Dwight D Eisenhower -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Supported Video Cards under Free Software (was: Re: Best Video Card)
On Wednesday 19 April 2006 17:08, Ron Johnson wrote: > On Wed, 2006-04-19 at 16:53 -0700, Xplicit Language wrote: > > i have found a video driver on intel 82810 onboard video on they're > > site at www.intel.com in the downloads and support section, i couldn't > > get it to install since i am new to linux, but it was there. > > When Intel makes "stand-alone" video cards, they'll get more notice > from those of us who don't want on-board video. But they do. I distinctly remember installing about a hundred Intel i880-based Intel video cards circa 1998. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP & Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabber: Because it's time to move forward http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber pgpLSQPtYHcEz.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Supported Video Cards under Free Software (was: Re: Best Video Card)
right i see what you meanRon Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Wed, 2006-04-19 at 16:53 -0700, Xplicit Language wrote:> i have found a video driver on intel 82810 onboard video on they're> site at www.intel.com in the downloads and support section, i couldn't> get it to install since i am new to linux, but it was there.When Intel makes "stand-alone" video cards, they'll get more noticefrom those of us who don't want on-board video.-- -Ron Johnson, Jr.Jefferson, LA USA"... going to war without France is like going deer huntingwithout an accordion. You just leave a lot of useless noisybaggage behind."Jed Babbin, former deputy undersecretary of defense in the firstBush administration-- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.
Re: Supported Video Cards under Free Software (was: Re: Best Video Card)
On Wed, 2006-04-19 at 16:53 -0700, Xplicit Language wrote: > i have found a video driver on intel 82810 onboard video on they're > site at www.intel.com in the downloads and support section, i couldn't > get it to install since i am new to linux, but it was there. When Intel makes "stand-alone" video cards, they'll get more notice from those of us who don't want on-board video. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA "... going to war without France is like going deer hunting without an accordion. You just leave a lot of useless noisy baggage behind." Jed Babbin, former deputy undersecretary of defense in the first Bush administration -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Supported Video Cards under Free Software (was: Re: Best Video Card)
i have found a video driver on intel 82810 onboard video on they're site at www.intel.com in the downloads and support section, i couldn't get it to install since i am new to linux, but it was there.Rogério Brito <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi, Manaen and others interested in Freedom.On Apr 18 2006, Manaen Schlabach wrote:> From a recent ZDNet article> > http://news.com.com/2102-7344_3-6061491.html?tag=st.util.printYes, I read this very same article with great interest (and what a goodtiming it had, considering our discussion here) and was pleased by whatI read.> I personally value my computing freedoms and believe in what Debian> and the FSF stand for so it looks like Intel will be getting a wad of> my hard earned cash in the near future.The very same here. I don't want to ge tied to a given operating systemand I would like to be able to use my hardware with other systems like,say, OpenBSD (which I have not experienced before).And, for this reason, having a big company like Intel backing thedevelopment of drivers (which, after released, would be "imported" byother projects) is indeed a nice thing that is able to guide my buyingdecisions (and even what I recommend to the Universities where I work,so that I can actually teach the use of Free Tools for students).Regards, Rogério Brito.-- Rogério Brito : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbritoHomepage of the algorithms package : http://algorithms.berlios.deHomepage on freshmeat: http://freshmeat.net/projects/algorithms/-- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.
Re: Supported Video Cards under Free Software (was: Re: Best Video Card)
Rogério Brito <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi, Manaen and others interested in Freedom.On Apr 18 2006, Manaen Schlabach wrote:> From a recent ZDNet article> > http://news.com.com/2102-7344_3-6061491.html?tag=st.util.printYes, I read this very same article with great interest (and what a goodtiming it had, considering our discussion here) and was pleased by whatI read.> I personally value my computing freedoms and believe in what Debian> and the FSF stand for so it looks like Intel will be getting a wad of> my hard earned cash in the near future.The very same here. I don't want to ge tied to a given operating systemand I would like to be able to use my hardware with other systems like,say, OpenBSD (which I have not experienced before).And, for this reason, having a big company like Intel backing thedevelopment of drivers (which, after released, would be "imported" byother projects) is indeed a nice thing that is able to guide my buyingdecisions (and even what I recommend to the Universities where I work,so that I can actually teach the use of Free Tools for students).Regards, Rogério Brito.-- Rogério Brito : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbritoHomepage of the algorithms package : http://algorithms.berlios.deHomepage on freshmeat: http://freshmeat.net/projects/algorithms/-- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.
Supported Video Cards under Free Software (was: Re: Best Video Card)
Hi, Manaen and others interested in Freedom. On Apr 18 2006, Manaen Schlabach wrote: > From a recent ZDNet article > > http://news.com.com/2102-7344_3-6061491.html?tag=st.util.print Yes, I read this very same article with great interest (and what a good timing it had, considering our discussion here) and was pleased by what I read. > I personally value my computing freedoms and believe in what Debian > and the FSF stand for so it looks like Intel will be getting a wad of > my hard earned cash in the near future. The very same here. I don't want to ge tied to a given operating system and I would like to be able to use my hardware with other systems like, say, OpenBSD (which I have not experienced before). And, for this reason, having a big company like Intel backing the development of drivers (which, after released, would be "imported" by other projects) is indeed a nice thing that is able to guide my buying decisions (and even what I recommend to the Universities where I work, so that I can actually teach the use of Free Tools for students). Regards, Rogério Brito. -- Rogério Brito : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Homepage of the algorithms package : http://algorithms.berlios.de Homepage on freshmeat: http://freshmeat.net/projects/algorithms/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Best Video Card
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hans, thank you for the information. I hadn't realized that the nv driver was written by nVidia. One point not in its favor, in addition to not doing 3D acceleration, is that it doesn't support 24/32 bit colour either. The "Debian blue swirl" that is the default background for KDM has very obvious lines in the colour gradation with the nv driver, but when using the closed nvidia driver the colour is a clean smooth transition from light blue to dark blue. So not just gaming. But for anyone who is not doing heavy work related to graphics (or gaming, as you point out) will be perfectly happy with the nv driver. > > On Sun, 2006-04-16 at 01:28 +0200, Hans du Plooy wrote: > > > The nv driver is also developed by nVidia. Basically it is the > > > nvidia driver minus the stuff that nVidia cannot release > > > (either because it is their trade secrets or it is technologies > > > licenced from other venders). Either ways, the nv driver is > > > very good, but basically lacs 3D. If you're not going to do > > > any gaming, then nv is fine. - -- September 11th, 2001 The proudest day for gun control and central planning advocates in American history -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iQEVAwUBREZLlS9Y35yItIgBAQL6Qwf8CEDMKV+Ca//N/ZrgMv7o31xRFB6qLEjZ rtV2Z88CuFUdF1PTdrUrLk6oxwEG1Rs8V97ZAYS5S2ZQq0UOrWgrQ1QK/1eUnV+h fmaj4+SSzLcL2SotZhnEWHlCd3mbKGlbxreQNGnOP5z7tB7VbrPQ/JuawFpSALU6 hKjRC993kN9UosVwH6ISqOl1+cRBYJjEqXEbY9W+MdbAWyjanuK2hVNq1eL69z99 YYTC4KVrIuq+wQb00ux0JBqoDJwLYCPuuIwro16bD4fsfKp9spTlhBmDcthsfQWP /ofF02rayckfmUDngyjuYnvBKTrOjiNxJ7k4yA/UPNLdImiQgemwUA== =Z3qi -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Best Video Card
On 4/17/06, Roy Pluschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sun, 2006-04-16 at 01:28 +0200, Hans du Plooy wrote: > > On Sat, 2006-04-15 at 15:01 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > I've seen reports that the free nv drivers are now as good as the > > > proprietary nvidia drivers. At lest some posters on some of the linux > > > groups seem to think so. Now maybe that's true only for a specific > > > model of nvidia card, and not true in general. > > > > The nv driver is also developed by nVidia. Basically it is the nvidia > > driver minus the stuff that nVidia cannot release (either because it is > > their trade secrets or it is technologies licenced from other venders). > > Either ways, the nv driver is very good, but basically lacs 3D. If > > you're not going to do any gaming, then nv is fine. > > > > The ATI driver is *not* inferior to the nVidia driver, as many believe. > > It's simply not as simple to install. Once installed the image quality > > and performance is every bit as good. > > > > Hans > > > > > > I suggest you go to the blender3d/elysiun web sites -- ati users have a > much harder time getting there drivers to work decently -- there are > many threads dedicated to their trials and tribulations. > > RJP > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >From a recent ZDNet article http://news.com.com/2102-7344_3-6061491.html?tag=st.util.print [Quote]On the flip side, Intel believes it can use open-source drivers to gain against Nvidia and ATI. The strategy parallels the chipmaker's earlier move with wireless networking support, and it has won an ally in Red Hat. "Their partnering with the open-source community is a pretty strong advantage," Stevens said. Intel has new plans for its open-source graphics driver work, though Hohndel wouldn't reveal details. "Our (graphics) drivers are open source. We are bringing out some interesting new stuff. It's not released yet," he said. [/Quote] I personally value my computing freedoms and believe in what Debian and the FSF stand for so it looks like Intel will be getting a wad of my hard earned cash in the near future.
Re: Best Video Card
On Sun, 2006-04-16 at 01:28 +0200, Hans du Plooy wrote: > On Sat, 2006-04-15 at 15:01 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > I've seen reports that the free nv drivers are now as good as the > > proprietary nvidia drivers. At lest some posters on some of the linux > > groups seem to think so. Now maybe that's true only for a specific > > model of nvidia card, and not true in general. > > The nv driver is also developed by nVidia. Basically it is the nvidia > driver minus the stuff that nVidia cannot release (either because it is > their trade secrets or it is technologies licenced from other venders). > Either ways, the nv driver is very good, but basically lacs 3D. If > you're not going to do any gaming, then nv is fine. > > The ATI driver is *not* inferior to the nVidia driver, as many believe. > It's simply not as simple to install. Once installed the image quality > and performance is every bit as good. > > Hans > > I suggest you go to the blender3d/elysiun web sites -- ati users have a much harder time getting there drivers to work decently -- there are many threads dedicated to their trials and tribulations. RJP -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Best Video Card
On 4/16/06, Manaen Schlabach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 4/16/06, John Carline <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Manaen Schlabach wrote: > > > > >Well I am finally thinking about upgrading my tired old radeon 7500. > > >I know that ATI and Nvidia both have decent cards but their drivers > > >are completely closed. I know and understand that companies must > > >protect some of their trade secrets but I would like very much to > > >support a graphics manufacturer who opens their specs as much as > > >possible to opensource and free software developers. Having said > > >that, what are everyones thoughts about which card that might be? At > > >one time it was Matrox are they still the most GNU/Linux friendly out > > >there or has someone else taken the lead on that? > > > > > > > > > Matrox was at one time the most GNU/Linux friendly cards made. At one > > time I thought that it was the only brand I would ever need on a linux > > box - I've owned many different Matrox cards over the years and still > > have a G450 in one of my computers. > > > > Several months ago I decided to upgrade and invested in a Matrox > > Millennium P750. It was the worst mistake I've made in years. After > > several days of frustration, I yanked it out and replaced it with a > > radeon 9200. > > > > It's now collecting dust in my junk bin. My advice... stay away from the > > latest Matrox cards. They are *not* GNU/Linux friendly. > > > > John > > > > -- > > Powered by the Penguin > > > > > > -- > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > So far it looks like nvidia is the only graphics manufacturer > attempting to do anything to work with the Free Software community. > Is that fair? > > What about > 3Dlabs > Intel - "i" series > * NVIDIA Corporation - GeForce including GeForce 4 series, GeForce > FX Series, GeForce 6 Series, GeForce 7 Series > > [edit] > > Specialty graphics card producers and products > > * Matrox - Parhelia and P-series > > [edit] > > Minor chipset producers and products > > * Falanx Microsystems - Mali > * S3 Graphics - Chrome series > * Tech Source - Raptor > * XGI Technology Inc. - Volari Looks like I was very quick with my trigger finger there and sent before I finished editing sorry. I had pulled a list of Video Card OEMs from a wiki about video card manufacturers. So what about 3Dlabs Intel - "i" series Falanx Microsystems - Mali S3 Graphics - Chrome series Tech Source - Raptor XGI Technology Inc. - Volari I realize many of those are small time manufacturers. It's very sad that no one in the video card world seems to be willing to come anywhere even close (an open 2d card driver from nvidia and that's as close as we come?) to supporting open/free standards. My personal experience has been that the free software community invariably does a better job of supporting hardware and writing drivers than most in the commercial industry.
Re: Best Video Card
On 4/16/06, John Carline <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Manaen Schlabach wrote: > > >Well I am finally thinking about upgrading my tired old radeon 7500. > >I know that ATI and Nvidia both have decent cards but their drivers > >are completely closed. I know and understand that companies must > >protect some of their trade secrets but I would like very much to > >support a graphics manufacturer who opens their specs as much as > >possible to opensource and free software developers. Having said > >that, what are everyones thoughts about which card that might be? At > >one time it was Matrox are they still the most GNU/Linux friendly out > >there or has someone else taken the lead on that? > > > > > Matrox was at one time the most GNU/Linux friendly cards made. At one > time I thought that it was the only brand I would ever need on a linux > box - I've owned many different Matrox cards over the years and still > have a G450 in one of my computers. > > Several months ago I decided to upgrade and invested in a Matrox > Millennium P750. It was the worst mistake I've made in years. After > several days of frustration, I yanked it out and replaced it with a > radeon 9200. > > It's now collecting dust in my junk bin. My advice... stay away from the > latest Matrox cards. They are *not* GNU/Linux friendly. > > John > > -- > Powered by the Penguin > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > So far it looks like nvidia is the only graphics manufacturer attempting to do anything to work with the Free Software community. Is that fair? What about 3Dlabs Intel - "i" series * NVIDIA Corporation - GeForce including GeForce 4 series, GeForce FX Series, GeForce 6 Series, GeForce 7 Series [edit] Specialty graphics card producers and products * Matrox - Parhelia and P-series [edit] Minor chipset producers and products * Falanx Microsystems - Mali * S3 Graphics - Chrome series * Tech Source - Raptor * XGI Technology Inc. - Volari
Re: Best Video Card
Manaen Schlabach wrote: Well I am finally thinking about upgrading my tired old radeon 7500. I know that ATI and Nvidia both have decent cards but their drivers are completely closed. I know and understand that companies must protect some of their trade secrets but I would like very much to support a graphics manufacturer who opens their specs as much as possible to opensource and free software developers. Having said that, what are everyones thoughts about which card that might be? At one time it was Matrox are they still the most GNU/Linux friendly out there or has someone else taken the lead on that? Matrox was at one time the most GNU/Linux friendly cards made. At one time I thought that it was the only brand I would ever need on a linux box - I've owned many different Matrox cards over the years and still have a G450 in one of my computers. Several months ago I decided to upgrade and invested in a Matrox Millennium P750. It was the worst mistake I've made in years. After several days of frustration, I yanked it out and replaced it with a radeon 9200. It's now collecting dust in my junk bin. My advice... stay away from the latest Matrox cards. They are *not* GNU/Linux friendly. John -- Powered by the Penguin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Best Video Card
Manaen Schlabach wrote: > Well I am finally thinking about upgrading my tired old radeon 7500. > I know that ATI and Nvidia both have decent cards but their drivers > are completely closed. I know and understand that companies must > protect some of their trade secrets but I would like very much to > support a graphics manufacturer who opens their specs as much as > possible to opensource and free software developers. Having said > that, what are everyones thoughts about which card that might be? At > one time it was Matrox are they still the most GNU/Linux friendly out > there or has someone else taken the lead on that? I wouldn't mind > supporting ATi/nVidia if they at least opened up their specs on old > cards (say older than 3 years) do they really have that much to lose > by doing so? > You may also be interested to know that at the propriertary drivers from Nvidia make it quite hard if not impossible to put a system into hibernation made, sleep mode, or suspend mode. The nv drivers work, the ones from ATI as well. But not Nvidia's. There ACPI implementation... well... sucks, a bit. I use Ubuntu on my work laptop, which recognizes both well known models of video cards: ATI and Nvidia. (And ofcourse a lot more.) They are all good enough to at least allow me to work decently. Eye candy? Don't need it. 3D? Also not needed. As for Debian: I use that for the real work: Serving. No need for a video card except for installing Debian the first time.. 0.02€ Mark -- http://www.maas-martin.nl -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Best Video Card
From: "Manaen Schlabach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Well I am finally thinking about upgrading my tired old radeon 7500. I know that ATI and Nvidia both have decent cards but their drivers are completely closed. I know and understand that companies must protect some of their trade secrets but I would like very much to support a graphics manufacturer who opens their specs as much as possible to opensource and free software developers. Having said that, what are everyones thoughts about which card that might be? At one time it was Matrox are they still the most GNU/Linux friendly out there or has someone else taken the lead on that? I wouldn't mind supporting ATi/nVidia if they at least opened up their specs on old cards (say older than 3 years) do they really have that much to lose by doing so? Upgrading your tired old Radeon 7500!? :-O I have a brand new ATI Radeon 7000! :-O Love & Friendship & Blessed Be! Lynn Erika Kilroy _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Best Video Card
Hi, Manaen. On Apr 15 2006, Manaen Schlabach wrote: (...) > I know that ATI and Nvidia both have decent cards but their drivers > are completely closed. I know and understand that companies must > protect some of their trade secrets but I would like very much to > support a graphics manufacturer who opens their specs as much as > possible to opensource and free software developers. Having said > that, what are everyones thoughts about which card that might be? Thank you very much for posting this. I'm very interested in reading the others' experiences with this part of hardware, which seems to be one of the most problematic for desktop users. I'm 100% aligned with your views as you can see from my other postings to debian-user on this subject: http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2001/01/msg02389.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2001/01/msg02442.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2000/11/msg00650.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2000/12/msg00863.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2001/08/msg03563.html > At one time it was Matrox are they still the most GNU/Linux friendly > out there or has someone else taken the lead on that? Well, it seems that they are not that open anymore, from what I just saw in the x.org (or was that dri?) support page. > I wouldn't mind supporting ATi/nVidia if they at least opened up their > specs on old cards (say older than 3 years) My sentiments, *exactly*. > do they really have that much to lose by doing so? Thanks for raising the point, Rogério Brito. -- Rogério Brito : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Homepage of the algorithms package : http://algorithms.berlios.de Homepage on freshmeat: http://freshmeat.net/projects/algorithms/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Best Video Card
> I've seen reports that the free nv drivers are now as good as the > proprietary nvidia drivers. If no hardware 3D acceleration is good enough for you, then they might be as good. Otherwise you are stuck with their proprietary drivers. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Best Video Card
On Sat, 2006-04-15 at 15:01 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I've seen reports that the free nv drivers are now as good as the > proprietary nvidia drivers. At lest some posters on some of the linux > groups seem to think so. Now maybe that's true only for a specific > model of nvidia card, and not true in general. The nv driver is also developed by nVidia. Basically it is the nvidia driver minus the stuff that nVidia cannot release (either because it is their trade secrets or it is technologies licenced from other venders). Either ways, the nv driver is very good, but basically lacs 3D. If you're not going to do any gaming, then nv is fine. The ATI driver is *not* inferior to the nVidia driver, as many believe. It's simply not as simple to install. Once installed the image quality and performance is every bit as good. Hans -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Best Video Card
On Sat, Apr 15, 2006 at 01:28:09PM -0400, Manaen Schlabach wrote: > Well I am finally thinking about upgrading my tired old radeon 7500. > I know that ATI and Nvidia both have decent cards but their drivers > are completely closed. I know and understand that companies must > protect some of their trade secrets but I would like very much to > support a graphics manufacturer who opens their specs as much as > possible to opensource and free software developers. Having said > that, what are everyones thoughts about which card that might be? At > one time it was Matrox are they still the most GNU/Linux friendly out > there or has someone else taken the lead on that? I wouldn't mind > supporting ATi/nVidia if they at least opened up their specs on old > cards (say older than 3 years) do they really have that much to lose > by doing so? > I've seen reports that the free nv drivers are now as good as the proprietary nvidia drivers. At lest some posters on some of the linux groups seem to think so. Now maybe that's true only for a specific model of nvidia card, and not true in general. I haven't gotten *either* the nv or nvidia drivers to work with the GeForce6100 chip on *my* motherboard, so I have seen no effective difference between them, except the nv driver is easier to install and uninstall. I'm hoping the situation changes soon. -- hendrik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Best Video Card
On Sat, Apr 15, 2006 at 01:28:09PM -0400, Manaen Schlabach wrote: > Well I am finally thinking about upgrading my tired old radeon 7500. > I know that ATI and Nvidia both have decent cards but their drivers > are completely closed. Their official drivers are completely closed, there are open-source drivers available (as you probably know). > I know and understand that companies must > protect some of their trade secrets but I would like very much to > support a graphics manufacturer who opens their specs as much as > possible to opensource and free software developers. Very noble ambitions. I'll admit that I don't know much about the openness of graphics cards because I haven't bought one since I truly made the switch to a fully linux setup. > Having said > that, what are everyones thoughts about which card that might be? At > one time it was Matrox are they still the most GNU/Linux friendly out > there or has someone else taken the lead on that? That's what I've heard, but it's probably old information. > I wouldn't mind > supporting ATi/nVidia if they at least opened up their specs on old > cards (say older than 3 years) I don't know if it's via openning of specs, but you can get 3d acceleration on an ATI Radeon 9200 or below, IIRC. I don't know about nVidia. > do they really have that much to lose > by doing so? I wouldn't think so... -- Christopher Nelson -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Rocky's Lemma of Innovation Prevention: Unless the results are known in advance, funding agencies will reject the proposal. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Best Video Card
On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 13:28:09 -0400 "Manaen Schlabach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Well I am finally thinking about upgrading my tired old radeon 7500. Can I have that tired old radeon, to replace my very tired matrox G100? :) But only if it has a working TV-out ;) > I know that ATI and Nvidia both have decent cards but their drivers > are completely closed. I know and understand that companies must > protect some of their trade secrets but I would like very much to > support a graphics manufacturer who opens their specs as much as > possible to opensource and free software developers. Having said > that, what are everyones thoughts about which card that might be? At > one time it was Matrox are they still the most GNU/Linux friendly out > there or has someone else taken the lead on that? I wouldn't mind > supporting ATi/nVidia if they at least opened up their specs on old > cards (say older than 3 years) do they really have that much to lose > by doing so? From what I've heard, at least nvidia's drivers are decent whereas ati drivers are of lower quality. I mean the closed ones. Andrei -- If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein)
Best Video Card
Well I am finally thinking about upgrading my tired old radeon 7500. I know that ATI and Nvidia both have decent cards but their drivers are completely closed. I know and understand that companies must protect some of their trade secrets but I would like very much to support a graphics manufacturer who opens their specs as much as possible to opensource and free software developers. Having said that, what are everyones thoughts about which card that might be? At one time it was Matrox are they still the most GNU/Linux friendly out there or has someone else taken the lead on that? I wouldn't mind supporting ATi/nVidia if they at least opened up their specs on old cards (say older than 3 years) do they really have that much to lose by doing so?
Re: best video card regarding license issues
Steffen Evers said: > In particular, Alan Cox has picked out the Nvidea kernel modules as > a good example how a module "taints" the kernel and explained that > such tainted kernels will be not debugged in the future. > > So, what do you know about graphic cards regarding driver's > licenses? the linux kernel crew doesn't want to support someone else's code if its not available. not many people contact the kernel team directly for such matters anyway(at least i hope they don't ..). you will still be able to get help from lists like debian-user and others that have users which use such modules(i do in 1 system). its a use-at-your-own-risk deal though. i held off for about a year while the nvidia drivers were maturing, they are pretty solid now(under 2.2.19 anyways). theres talk about putting code into modules/kernel that can detect when a tainted kernel is running so developers know more information. i think its a good idea. i wait for the day when the kernel API is stable, same for glibc. i was at a sun conference recently and was shocked to hear that solaris 2.x is fully upwards/downwards binary compadible. a binary compiled on solaris 2.5.1 ~5 years ago will still run on solaris 9 when it comes out next year(or whenever its set to be released). until that time i don't expect linux to be a complete replacment for users on the desktop. its just too much work for companies to compile 50 different modules for their drivers for their hardware, since most end users don't have the knowledge/ability to compile them from source. im just glad that nvidia releases enough source that it can compile on generic kernels, rather then binary-only modules like the ones from companies like adaptec(and others who i cant think of off the top of my head) which in many cases only work with 1 or 2 specific kernels. nate
Re: best video card regarding license issues
On Fri, 2001-11-16 at 21:14, Brian Nelson wrote: > Steffen Evers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > Hello, > > > > I have followed the recent discussion about vidoe cards on the list. I > > have also been looking for a new video card and was thinking about a > > Nvidea card. However, I have read about the license problems with > > "tainting" (non-GPL) kernel modules for Nvidea acceleration. It seems > > like that kernel hackers try to block out non-GPL code like this driver > > (sounds reasonable to me ...). > > In particular, Alan Cox has picked out the Nvidea kernel modules as a > > good example how a module "taints" the kernel and explained that such > > tainted kernels will be not debugged in the future. > > Yeah, they won't be "blocked out", but the kernel hackers won't try to > debug a tainted kernel, because they can't fix it. Basically, I think > they're sick of bug reports caused by bugs in non-free code. > Of course if you think you've discovered a real kernel bug, it should be reproducable from the console so even if you're using the NVidia module, you could unload the module, reproduct the kernel bug, and submit it. I really don't see this being a real issue. -- GPG Public Key available: http://nimh.freeshell.org/gpg_key.txt pgpoz2iXLyCNq.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: best video card regarding license issues
Steffen Evers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Hello, > > I have followed the recent discussion about vidoe cards on the list. I > have also been looking for a new video card and was thinking about a > Nvidea card. However, I have read about the license problems with > "tainting" (non-GPL) kernel modules for Nvidea acceleration. It seems > like that kernel hackers try to block out non-GPL code like this driver > (sounds reasonable to me ...). > In particular, Alan Cox has picked out the Nvidea kernel modules as a > good example how a module "taints" the kernel and explained that such > tainted kernels will be not debugged in the future. Yeah, they won't be "blocked out", but the kernel hackers won't try to debug a tainted kernel, because they can't fix it. Basically, I think they're sick of bug reports caused by bugs in non-free code. > So, what do you know about graphic cards regarding driver's licenses? Get a card with quality opensource drivers. Matrox cards are known for having nice drivers. I'm not sure about others... -- Brian Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
best video card regarding license issues
Hello, I have followed the recent discussion about vidoe cards on the list. I have also been looking for a new video card and was thinking about a Nvidea card. However, I have read about the license problems with "tainting" (non-GPL) kernel modules for Nvidea acceleration. It seems like that kernel hackers try to block out non-GPL code like this driver (sounds reasonable to me ...). In particular, Alan Cox has picked out the Nvidea kernel modules as a good example how a module "taints" the kernel and explained that such tainted kernels will be not debugged in the future. So, what do you know about graphic cards regarding driver's licenses? Bye, Steffen
