Re: Bookworm - cron?
Hello, On Sat, Aug 05, 2023 at 02:01:40PM -0700, Steve Sobol wrote: > On 2023-08-05 13:16, Andy Smith wrote: > > On Sat, Aug 05, 2023 at 12:53:08PM -0700, Steve Sobol wrote: > > > Part of my standard procedure for setting up new VMs involves > > > editing root's > > > crontab. > > > > > > But cron isn't installed. > > > > Seems unlikely. There are system cron jobs that are not yet > > converted to systemd timers. A bookworm install I did just yesterday > > has cron jobs in /etc/cron.d/ that require the "cron" package. [this bit not actually true, it seems!] > > What are you typing to edit root's crontab? What output do you get > > that you don't expect? > > crontab -e > > Bash tells me that the "crontab" command wasn't found. > > dpkg -l |grep cron returned nothing. I think you must be right then. In another email I mentioned that I checked a minimal install and all the system cron jobs that were installed did already have systemd timers, so they are no-ops that don't require crond. So as Greg mentioned, just install package "cron". Or you could do your root crontab entry as a systemd timer, if you'd rather not install and run crond just for that. Cheers, Andy -- https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
Re: Bookworm - cron?
On 2023-08-05 13:16, Andy Smith wrote: Hello, On Sat, Aug 05, 2023 at 12:53:08PM -0700, Steve Sobol wrote: Part of my standard procedure for setting up new VMs involves editing root's crontab. But cron isn't installed. Seems unlikely. There are system cron jobs that are not yet converted to systemd timers. A bookworm install I did just yesterday has cron jobs in /etc/cron.d/ that require the "cron" package. What are you typing to edit root's crontab? What output do you get that you don't expect? crontab -e Bash tells me that the "crontab" command wasn't found. dpkg -l |grep cron returned nothing.
Re: Bookworm - cron?
On 2023-08-05 13:23, Michael Kjörling wrote: On 5 Aug 2023 22:13 +0200, from johndoe65...@mail.com (john doe): But cron isn't installed. I just install a new Bookworm VM and 'cron' is present! :) Ditto. That must be some customization your VPS provider has made, if the installation didn't somehow fail. I'll talk to them. The VPS was acting quite strangely, anyhow, and rather than fight with Bookworm, I nuked the VPS and created another one from their bullseye image. Or you could ask your VPS provider why they aren't providing "important" packages in their default image. This is the first time it's happened. Of the Linux images I've used there, Ubuntu 14.04, 16.04, 18.04, 20.04, 22.04, and Debian bullseye all shipped with cron properly installed. Come to think of it... I just checked a local bookworm VM I'm running at home, and it has cron installed, too. I'll open a ticket. Thanks :)
Re: Bookworm - cron?
On Sat, Aug 05, 2023 at 08:16:57PM +, Andy Smith wrote: > Hello, > > On Sat, Aug 05, 2023 at 12:53:08PM -0700, Steve Sobol wrote: > > But cron isn't installed. > > Seems unlikely. There are system cron jobs that are not yet > converted to systemd timers. A bookworm install I did just yesterday > has cron jobs in /etc/cron.d/ that require the "cron" package. As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, I've now checked this and the default install that I did got these system cron jobs: /etc/cron.d/e2scrub_all /etc/cron.d/ntpsec /etc/cron.daily/man-db /etc/cron.daily/apt-compat /etc/cron.daily/logrotate /etc/cron.daily/dpkg /etc/cron.weekly/man-db …all of which have systemd timers which take precedence, so aren't actually used. So I take it back: it does seem possible to have a functioning minimal Debian install without cron and without going to any great effort to create your own systemd timers. Though I am sure there's still plenty of packages with cron jobs and not timers (yet). Cheers, Andy -- https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
Re: Bookworm - cron?
On Sat, Aug 05, 2023 at 08:31:13PM +, Andy Smith wrote: > On Sat, Aug 05, 2023 at 08:23:19PM +, Michael Kjörling wrote: > > Ditto. That must be some customization your VPS provider has made, if > > the installation didn't somehow fail. > > I don't know why a hosting company would put in the effort to > convert the system cron jobs to systemd timers though Having had a look at the system cron jobs that end up installed by default, every single one of them does have a systemd timer that executes instead of them, so I think I must take it back and say that it does seem to be possible to get a functioning Debian install without the cron package these days! Cheers, Andy -- https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
Re: Bookworm - cron?
Hello, On Sat, Aug 05, 2023 at 08:23:19PM +, Michael Kjörling wrote: > On 5 Aug 2023 22:13 +0200, from johndoe65...@mail.com (john doe): > >> But cron isn't installed. > > > > I just install a new Bookworm VM and 'cron' is present! :) > > Ditto. That must be some customization your VPS provider has made, if > the installation didn't somehow fail. I don't know why a hosting company would put in the effort to convert the system cron jobs to systemd timers though, which is why I find the claim that OP has a working Debian 12 VM without cron to be unlikely. Unless as you say, they don't have a working Debian 12. Cheers, Andy -- https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
Re: Bookworm - cron?
On Sat, Aug 05, 2023 at 12:53:08PM -0700, Steve Sobol wrote: > My VPS provider [...] > But cron isn't installed. > > What am I expected to use instead? (I assume that I *could* install cron, > but there must be a reason it's not installed by default anymore, right?) Just install it. Do not waste time wondering why your VPS provider didn't install it. You could *ask* them, and they may even answer, but that's just an intellectual diversion. If you want cron, install cron. Don't overthink it.
Re: Bookworm - cron?
On 5 Aug 2023 22:13 +0200, from johndoe65...@mail.com (john doe): >> But cron isn't installed. > > I just install a new Bookworm VM and 'cron' is present! :) Ditto. That must be some customization your VPS provider has made, if the installation didn't somehow fail. I did an installation based on my preseed file at [1] with 12.0 upgraded to latest, and after installation, `dpkg -l '*cron*'` shows the "cron" package as installed on the VM, and `apt-cache show cron` shows it as having "Priority: important". That one is fairly minimalistic and only installs the "standard" and "ssh-server" tasks. >> What am I expected to use instead? I guess you could use systemd timers, if that installation is set up with systemd. Or you could ask your VPS provider why they aren't providing "important" packages in their default image. [1] https://michael.kjorling.se/debian-12-bookworm-preseed/ -- Michael Kjörling https://michael.kjorling.se “Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”
Re: Bookworm - cron?
Hello, On Sat, Aug 05, 2023 at 12:53:08PM -0700, Steve Sobol wrote: > Part of my standard procedure for setting up new VMs involves editing root's > crontab. > > But cron isn't installed. Seems unlikely. There are system cron jobs that are not yet converted to systemd timers. A bookworm install I did just yesterday has cron jobs in /etc/cron.d/ that require the "cron" package. What are you typing to edit root's crontab? What output do you get that you don't expect? Cheers, Andy -- https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting "What should one say after making love? ``Thank you'' seems too much. ``I'm sorry'' - somehow not enough." — The League Against Tedium
Re: Bookworm - cron?
On 8/5/23 21:53, Steve Sobol wrote: Crazy question: My VPS provider just started offering bookworm images. So when I set up a new server yesterday, I installed bookworm. Part of my standard procedure for setting up new VMs involves editing root's crontab. But cron isn't installed. What am I expected to use instead? (I assume that I *could* install cron, but there must be a reason it's not installed by default anymore, right?) I just install a new Bookworm VM and 'cron' is present! :) -- John Doe
Bookworm - cron?
Crazy question: My VPS provider just started offering bookworm images. So when I set up a new server yesterday, I installed bookworm. Part of my standard procedure for setting up new VMs involves editing root's crontab. But cron isn't installed. What am I expected to use instead? (I assume that I *could* install cron, but there must be a reason it's not installed by default anymore, right?) Thanks :)
