Re: Continuing ALSA suckage
On Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 07:14:39PM -0600, Dimitri Maziuk wrote: I can roll my own alsa setup, thankyouverymuch. (In fact, that's what I had working before this upgrade.) Should I purge all this alsa crap and go back to the Good Old Way? I'd rather keep Debian configuration startup files keep package database happy. Is there any fine manual I can read to find out how to do that? YES! I have been doing this for many months, having heard similar horror stories to yours. I haven't run in to any problems with conflicts with Debian packages or unmet dependencies or anything as a result of bypassing the Debian package database in this manner. noah -- ___ | Web: http://web.morgul.net/~frodo/ | PGP Public Key: http://web.morgul.net/~frodo/mail.html pgpprQmQukL0U.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Continuing ALSA suckage
So? Are there any good documentation available somewhere? I've been trying to figure this whole issue out myself for a while but then gave up and moved to more important stuff for a while, as I'm generally fairly new to Linux and have a lot of other things to learn as well. Generally speaking I'm also confused a lot by the fact that I've found no indication anywhere why there are 3 different version numbers available, what's the advantage of one over another, how exactly to set it up etc... I've also found the two different alsa script in /etc/init.d confusing, and also had problems with modconf complaining about aliases etc. I also had some interesting kernel messages claiming that I'll taint my kernel by inserting non-cerified modules, which is not too promissing, whatever it means... And while we're at it, is there somewhere some good documentation to help people decide whst is the best way to go for a certain system/soundcard/purpose. What's the difference / advantage between ALSA and OSS? Some Gnome stuff seems to be adamant on using Esound/esd. That seems to be conflicting with ALSA, or is it? And I could go on like that... I very much try not to ask too obvious questions, so that I don't annoy people. And I've been reading HOWTOs, man pages etc. for the last 6 month, but for some questions it seems it is very difficult to find answers ... Any thoughts are greatly appreciated! best regards, Balazs On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 12:48:28PM -0500, Noah Meyerhans wrote: On Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 07:14:39PM -0600, Dimitri Maziuk wrote: I can roll my own alsa setup, thankyouverymuch. (In fact, that's what I had working before this upgrade.) Should I purge all this alsa crap and go back to the Good Old Way? I'd rather keep Debian configuration startup files keep package database happy. Is there any fine manual I can read to find out how to do that? YES! I have been doing this for many months, having heard similar horror stories to yours. I haven't run in to any problems with conflicts with Debian packages or unmet dependencies or anything as a result of bypassing the Debian package database in this manner. noah -- ___ | Web: http://web.morgul.net/~frodo/ | PGP Public Key: http://web.morgul.net/~frodo/mail.html
Re: Continuing ALSA suckage
On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 08:32:43PM +0100, Balazs Javor wrote: So? Are there any good documentation available somewhere? I've been trying to figure this whole issue out myself for a while but then gave up and moved to more important stuff for a while, as I'm generally fairly new to Linux and have a lot of other things to learn as well. Go to www.alsa-project.org and get the most recent version of the drivers, lib, and utils tar files. The drivers tarball contains installation instructions, including what aliases to add to your /etc/modutils/aliases file. Generally speaking I'm also confused a lot by the fact that I've found no indication anywhere why there are 3 different version numbers available, what's the advantage of one over another, how exactly to set it up etc... Within Debian or on the alsa-project site? I also had some interesting kernel messages claiming that I'll taint my kernel by inserting non-cerified modules, which is not too promissing, whatever it means... It means very little. It is a minor bug in ALSA that it does not explicitly define a symbol indicating that it is GPL. The kernel thus believes that it must be a proprietary module and marks itself as being tainted by the insertion of proprietary code into itself. Expect ALSA to correct this soon. And while we're at it, is there somewhere some good documentation to help people decide whst is the best way to go for a certain system/soundcard/purpose. I bet that alsa-project.org has some comparison between themselves and OSS. What's the difference / advantage between ALSA and OSS? ALSA contains an OSS compatibility layer, so you should be able to get the best of both worlds using it. OSS is old and not as well engineered/designed. Last I knew, though, there was a binary-only, commercial version of OSS that allowed a few cards to work in Linux when they otherwise could not. Some Gnome stuff seems to be adamant on using Esound/esd. That seems to be conflicting with ALSA, or is it? And I could go on like that... I don't think there's any reason you can't run esound/esd with ALSA. esd is userspace code, ALSA is the actual kernel driver. esd/esound would have to talk to the kernel level driver at some point, and since ALSA can emulate OSS, there should be no problem even if esound/esd doesn't directly support it. noah -- ___ | Web: http://web.morgul.net/~frodo/ | PGP Public Key: http://web.morgul.net/~frodo/mail.html pgpKEVRP9hmMo.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Continuing ALSA suckage
On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 08:32:43PM +0100, Balazs Javor wrote: So? Are there any good documentation available somewhere? I've been trying to figure this whole issue out myself for a while but then gave up and moved to more important stuff for a while, as I'm generally fairly new to Linux and have a lot of other things to learn as well. Have a look at http://rute.sourceforge.net Sam -- Sam Varghese http://www.gnubies.com The dogs bark but the caravan passes. - ancient Arab proverb
Re: Continuing ALSA suckage
* Sam Varghese ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) spake thusly: On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 08:32:43PM +0100, Balazs Javor wrote: So? Are there any good documentation available somewhere? I've been trying to figure this whole issue out myself for a while but then gave up and moved to more important stuff for a while, as I'm generally fairly new to Linux and have a lot of other things to learn as well. Have a look at http://rute.sourceforge.net Hmm, for some strange reason I don't see ALSA configuration in Debian in their TOC. Dima -- Q276304 - Error Message: Your Password Must Be at Least 18770 Characters and Cannot Repeat Any of Your Previous 30689 Passwords -- RISKS 21.37
Continuing ALSA suckage
Dear God^Wall does anyone have a working alsa (Debian packages) in Woody with a recent kernel? Does anyone know how alsa is supposed to be set up in Woody? RANT I've finally upgraded the kernel (to 2.4.17) and tried to use Debian ALSA packages (again). Not entirely unexpectedly, ALSA broke. Hmm, lessee... 1. there are three alsa-source utils packages: plain, 0.4, and 0.5. There's alsautils (in addition to 3 alsa-utils above), 2 alsaconfs, and a bunch of alsalib's that appear in dpkg -l output but not in aptitude's package list. Which of them do I need? Is it documented anywhere? 2. I have /etc/init.d/alsa, /etc/init.d/alsasound (not referenced in /etc/rc?.d's), and /etc/init.d/alsa has a . /usr/share/alsa-base/snd-dev-utils. (Like, what? Can you say NFS server is down?) 3. There's /etc/alsa/modutils/0.5 (no, alsa-*-0.5 is not installed) and /etc/alsa/modutils/0.9. Both files seem to be generated by alsaconf; according to barfs from modprobe, both contain invalid options (I've a feeling the driver reads its options from someplace else entirely, though). 4. There are alsa aliases in both /etc/modules.conf and /etc/alsa/modutils/*. Well, at leas they seem to be consitent (I didn't look too closely, though). 5. To quote /usr/share/doc/alsa-base/README.Debian: * If you are using the kernel with devfs support, you need to enable the feature and mount it under /dev Huh? What feature? Enable where? How do I mount it? What does /usr/share/alsa-base/snd-dev-utils do, then, if not manage alsa sound devices? I can roll my own alsa setup, thankyouverymuch. (In fact, that's what I had working before this upgrade.) Should I purge all this alsa crap and go back to the Good Old Way? I'd rather keep Debian configuration startup files keep package database happy. Is there any fine manual I can read to find out how to do that? /RANT Ok, I've exaggerated in some places, and I know that a lot of alsa suckage comes from upstream etc., but still... no need to add more suckage, is there? Dima -- We're sysadmins. Sanity happens to other people. -- Chris King
