Re: Debian GNU/Linux Logo chosen
Paul Serice wrote: Wintermute wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Tommy Lakofski [EMAIL PROTECTED] On a bit of a tangent, how ready is the Hurd to replace the Linux kernel? I am not one of the people testing it. RMS is still running Debian on his laptop :-) What I would hope is that the HURD would support the 86open standard (essentially GNU LIBC with a cleaner substitute for ioctl()), and that a large number of Debian binary packages would run on all 86open platforms, including SCO and so on. We're going to have to get a lot farther with 86open before that happens. As I read more and more about Hurd.. I still can't stop thinking WHY?.. in a couple hundred more revisions.. the Linux kernel may well come close to being a microkernel. What are the clear cut benefits? (Just a few simple lines please.. no dissertations.. I'd as a professor of computer science for that...) There is a grand old discussion archived on KDE's web site at http://www.kde.org/food/linux_is_obsolete.html That's the one with Linus and the guy who created Minix right? I think I read through that old news archive about 2 years ago.. it came included on the Slackware CD release I had at the time. Cute.. funny.. but it didn't really answer any of the questions as to WHY. Is there a speed increase? Is there a security increase? Stability? Power? What? -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian GNU/Linux Logo chosen
Anand Kumria wrote: On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Wintermute wrote: I ask you.. what exactly is a debian... :) Funny you should mention that: I just happened to be going through my magazine and came across Linux Journal circa Dec 1994. On the cover Exclusive Art Exhibit: What Is a Linux and the rest of the cover is populate with the artistic impressions of what children belive a Linux looks like. I wonder what they think a Debian looks like ... Anand. -- You might just have something there hmmm -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian GNU/Linux Logo chosen
As I read more and more about Hurd.. I still can't stop thinking WHY?.. in a couple hundred more revisions.. the Linux kernel may well come close to being a microkernel. What are the clear cut benefits? (Just a few simple lines please.. no dissertations.. I'd as a professor of computer science for that...) There is a grand old discussion archived on KDE's web site at http://www.kde.org/food/linux_is_obsolete.html That's the one with Linus and the guy who created Minix right? I think I read through that old news archive about 2 years ago.. it came included on the Slackware CD release I had at the time. Cute.. funny.. but it didn't really answer any of the questions as to WHY. Is there a speed increase? Is there a security increase? Stability? Power? What? It does answer those questions. According to the people who know (which excludes me), the monolithic kernel is arguably faster and much easier to program. The microkernel is supposedly more modular and more portable. The discussion is each side debunking other. Paul Serice -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian GNU/Linux Logo chosen
Martin Bialasinski wrote: On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Bruce Perens wrote: We've been having a logo contest for a long time. It failed to generate a consensus on a logo for the project. It got to the point where people were clamoring for me to hire a commercial artist and get the job done. I went over the candidates in the logo contest, and found one that was probably as good as what I would have gotten after spending money on a commercial artist. The logo I chose is Hmm, Highest Score: Page v12 Debian Logo Draft: eb07 Yes 67% (140) No 32% (68) Bruce's choice: Page v9Debian Logo Draft: si02 Yes 32% (47) No 67% (96) It didn't even make it boyond the ninth page. and I have seen governments with less then 67% yes votes. So 67% is no consens? A while back, there was a 99.9% consens in voting for the communistic partys, I don't think the stake is that high any more. Was the logo choice one of the cases which required the final decision of the project leader? Now that the choice is made and announced, there is no way back any more. Please don't mind me chosing logo eb07 for representing debian on my site. The decision not to emphasise the liunx penguin that much may be politically correct (regarding that it is debian GNU/Linux), but I really like that cute littly guy. You know.. my only concern with the Debian logo..was in the comments from spectators.. Most of the consensus (there's that word again), was that it should be it's OWN motif. I ask you.. what exactly is a debian... :) -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian GNU/Linux Logo chosen
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Tommy Lakofski [EMAIL PROTECTED] On a bit of a tangent, how ready is the Hurd to replace the Linux kernel? I am not one of the people testing it. RMS is still running Debian on his laptop :-) What I would hope is that the HURD would support the 86open standard (essentially GNU LIBC with a cleaner substitute for ioctl()), and that a large number of Debian binary packages would run on all 86open platforms, including SCO and so on. We're going to have to get a lot farther with 86open before that happens. As I read more and more about Hurd.. I still can't stop thinking WHY?.. in a couple hundred more revisions.. the Linux kernel may well come close to being a microkernel. What are the clear cut benefits? (Just a few simple lines please.. no dissertations.. I'd as a professor of computer science for that...) -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian GNU/Linux Logo chosen
Wintermute: What are the clear cut benefits [of the Hurd]? It's a research OS, while Linux/Unix is mostly based on 1970's technology. This is not to say that it's better. That might be an individual decision. Bruce -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian GNU/Linux Logo chosen
On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Wintermute wrote: As I read more and more about Hurd.. I still can't stop thinking WHY?.. in a couple hundred more revisions.. the Linux kernel may well come close to being a microkernel. What are the clear cut benefits? (Just a few simple lines please.. no dissertations.. I'd as a professor of computer science for that...) I'm no expert on kernel architectures, but this fragment I snipped from http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/hurd-paper.html seems the most interesting aspect to me: A multi-server divides the kernel functionality up into logical blocks with well-defined interfaces. Properly done, it is easier to make changes and add functionality. So most multi-server projects do somewhat better. Much more of the system is pageable. You can debug the system more easily. You can test new system components without interfering with other users. But the wall between user and system remains; no user can cross it without special privilege. The GNU Hurd, by contrast, is designed to make the area of system code as limited as possible. Programs are required to communicate only with a few essential parts of the kernel; the rest of the system is replaceable dynamically. Users can use whatever parts of the remainder of the system they want, and can easily add components themselves for other users to take advantage of. No mutual trust need exist in advance for users to use each other's services, nor does the system become vulnerable by trusting the services of arbitrary users. Seems neat to be able to hack the kernel without hacking the kernel... TL -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian GNU/Linux Logo chosen
The logo I chose is http://fatman.mathematik.tu-muenchen.de/~schwarz/debian-logo/profile/si02.html Good choice. You forgot to give some credit to the artist (Simon?) though. Do you think SPI should trademark it? What sort of licensing do you think would be best? What does the original artist think? In order to use the BSD daemon (ie. on product packaging, literature, T-Shirts, etc.) you need express written permission from Marshall Kirk McKusick. http://www.freebsd.org/daemon.html Conversely, the Linux penguin by Larry Ewing was included in the kernel source - so I imagine that means it is covered by the GPL. Actually, Larry grants permission to use/modify it on his web page. http://www.isc.tamu.edu/~lewing/linux/ Cheers, - Jim pgpthigz9BEWi.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Debian GNU/Linux Logo chosen
On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Jim Pick wrote: The logo I chose is http://fatman.mathematik.tu-muenchen.de/~schwarz/debian-logo/profile/si02.html Good choice. You forgot to give some credit to the artist (Simon?) though. Do you think SPI should trademark it? What sort of licensing do you think would be best? What does the original artist think? Conversely, the Linux penguin by Larry Ewing was included in the kernel source - so I imagine that means it is covered by the GPL. Actually, Larry grants permission to use/modify it on his web page. hmm... permission to modify logo ??? will it be an logo after all ? ok -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian GNU/Linux Logo chosen
From: Jim Pick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Good choice. You forgot to give some credit to the artist (Simon?) That's why. All I have is Simon?. Do you think SPI should trademark it? Yes, definitely, right away. It turns out that it is absurdly easy to file for a trademark, I did the debian one in about half an hour. See www.uspto.gov . When that $200 check I wrote the government comes through, I'll bill it back to the project. I suggest that someone in the U.S. do the trademark application for the Debian logo as SPI is a U.S. corporation. Please coordinate with Ian Jackson. Conversely, the Linux penguin by Larry Ewing was included in the kernel source - so I imagine that means it is covered by the GPL. Actually, Larry grants permission to use/modify it on his web page. Larry holds a common law trademark (go read www.uspto.gov if you don't believe in those). He can register it if he wishes, but he has rights whether or not he registers it. Thanks Bruce -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian GNU/Linux Logo chosen
Wintermute wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Tommy Lakofski [EMAIL PROTECTED] On a bit of a tangent, how ready is the Hurd to replace the Linux kernel? I am not one of the people testing it. RMS is still running Debian on his laptop :-) What I would hope is that the HURD would support the 86open standard (essentially GNU LIBC with a cleaner substitute for ioctl()), and that a large number of Debian binary packages would run on all 86open platforms, including SCO and so on. We're going to have to get a lot farther with 86open before that happens. As I read more and more about Hurd.. I still can't stop thinking WHY?.. in a couple hundred more revisions.. the Linux kernel may well come close to being a microkernel. What are the clear cut benefits? (Just a few simple lines please.. no dissertations.. I'd as a professor of computer science for that...) There is a grand old discussion archived on KDE's web site at http://www.kde.org/food/linux_is_obsolete.html Paul Serice -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian GNU/Linux Logo chosen
On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Wintermute wrote: I ask you.. what exactly is a debian... :) Funny you should mention that: I just happened to be going through my magazine and came across Linux Journal circa Dec 1994. On the cover Exclusive Art Exhibit: What Is a Linux and the rest of the cover is populate with the artistic impressions of what children belive a Linux looks like. I wonder what they think a Debian looks like ... Anand. -- `When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know, the end result is tyranny and oppression no matter how holy the motives' -- Robert A Heinlein, If this goes on -- -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian GNU/Linux Logo chosen
On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Bruce Perens wrote: This is the logo of Debian GNU/Linux. Any future Debian system we do with the Hurd would obviously have a different logo. We could still use a logo for Software in the Public Interest. On a bit of a tangent, how ready is the Hurd to replace the Linux kernel? There hasn't been much recent information at www.gnu.org... I guess there'll also be questions of whether to replace the Linux kernel, or create a new Debian distribution around Hurd. I guess it's a bit early to wonder about that kind of detail. ;) on topic nice logo, btw TL -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian GNU/Linux Logo chosen
On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Bruce Perens wrote: We've been having a logo contest for a long time. It failed to generate a consensus on a logo for the project. It got to the point where people were clamoring for me to hire a commercial artist and get the job done. I went over the candidates in the logo contest, and found one that was probably as good as what I would have gotten after spending money on a commercial artist. The logo I chose is Hmm, Highest Score: Page v12 Debian Logo Draft: eb07 Yes 67% (140) No 32% (68) Bruce's choice: Page v9Debian Logo Draft: si02 Yes 32% (47) No 67% (96) It didn't even make it boyond the ninth page. and I have seen governments with less then 67% yes votes. So 67% is no consens? A while back, there was a 99.9% consens in voting for the communistic partys, I don't think the stake is that high any more. Was the logo choice one of the cases which required the final decision of the project leader? Now that the choice is made and announced, there is no way back any more. Please don't mind me chosing logo eb07 for representing debian on my site. The decision not to emphasise the liunx penguin that much may be politically correct (regarding that it is debian GNU/Linux), but I really like that cute littly guy. Ciao, Martin -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian GNU/Linux Logo chosen
From: Tommy Lakofski [EMAIL PROTECTED] On a bit of a tangent, how ready is the Hurd to replace the Linux kernel? I am not one of the people testing it. RMS is still running Debian on his laptop :-) What I would hope is that the HURD would support the 86open standard (essentially GNU LIBC with a cleaner substitute for ioctl()), and that a large number of Debian binary packages would run on all 86open platforms, including SCO and so on. We're going to have to get a lot farther with 86open before that happens. Thanks Bruce -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian GNU/Linux Logo chosen
From: Martin Bialasinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] Highest Score: Page v12 Debian Logo Draft: eb07 Yes 67% (140) No 32% (68) Yes, indeed that has the highest score. Unfortunately, the criteria for choosing it were not quite right. We can't register it as a trademark and it's too easily confused with other similar products. This is really important! Was the logo choice one of the cases which required the final decision of the project leader? I submitted a number of concepts for logos to debian-publicity. Nobody was interested in drawing them. So I let the contest run a while, to see if anything good would come up. After some time, I got a commercial artist to draw the Open Hardware logo, and the fellow who was running the logo contest commented on the excellent results we got and we talked about getting a commercial artist for the Debian logo too. Many people complained to me that a choice was overdue, and I eventually took a last look before committing $$$ for a logo from a commercial artist and found one that was trademark-able and looked good. Please don't mind me chosing logo eb07 for representing debian on my site. You've got Tux, we've got Deb. They are both Penguins. The decision not to emphasise the liunx penguin that much may be politically correct (regarding that it is debian GNU/Linux), but I really like that cute littly guy. Huh? There's no picture of a gnu in that logo. There _is_ a penguin. If we do a system for hurd, we can draw a gnu in outline and call him Ian. Bruce -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian GNU/Linux Logo chosen
On 1 Dec 1997 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: including SCO and so on. We're going to have to get a lot farther with 86open before that happens. Thought it would be awhile... Hurd looks like it has some neat technology, though. Thomas. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Debian GNU/Linux Logo chosen
We've been having a logo contest for a long time. It failed to generate a consensus on a logo for the project. It got to the point where people were clamoring for me to hire a commercial artist and get the job done. I went over the candidates in the logo contest, and found one that was probably as good as what I would have gotten after spending money on a commercial artist. The logo I chose is http://fatman.mathematik.tu-muenchen.de/~schwarz/debian-logo/profile/si02.html specifically the color one with the blue eye. This is the logo of Debian GNU/Linux. Any future Debian system we do with the Hurd would obviously have a different logo. We could still use a logo for Software in the Public Interest. I chose this logo because it is a simple, easily recognized image, it emphasizes the Linux connection while it is also definitely different from the Linux penguin, it's easily trademarked, and it has esthetic merit. We need some more artistic treatements of this logo - different sizes (for example one for a CD jacket), different type, use of the image in various contexts, etc. My thanks to all of the artists who submitted logos. There was great creativity, and I'm sorry that we could not use all of them! Many Thanks Bruce Perens Debian Project Leader -- Can you get your operating system fixed when you need it? Linux - the supportable operating system. http://www.debian.org/support.html Bruce Perens K6BP [EMAIL PROTECTED] NEW PHONE NUMBER: 510-620-3502 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
