Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke
On 10/25/19 7:44 AM, Wayne Sallee wrote: Original Message *Subject: * Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke *From: * Wayne Sallee *To: * Debian-user *CC: * *Date: * 2019-10-23 10:37 AM Original Message *Subject: * Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke *From: * Christopher David Howie *To: * Debian-user *CC: * *Date: * 2019-10-22 12:43 PM On 10/13/19 6:56 PM, Wayne Sallee wrote: The non-graphical needs work too: There's no manual partitioning option without going first to guided partitioning This is patently false. Every Debian setup I have done in the last ten years I've done with manual partitioning in the text-mode installer. The option to do partitioning manually is among the guided options, you just have to select it. See the attached screenshot. I went back through my cd images, and had a hard time finding it. Finally I found it. Yes under normal circumstances the manual partitioning is there without having to select guided partitioning. But when I was writing up my info on how difficult the partitioning can be, I ran into the situation where there was no option to select manual portioning without first selecting guided partitioning, and was surprised and disappointed to see that debian makes you select guided partitioning in order to find the manual partitioning option. But sure enough, under normal circumstances the manual partitioning is available without having to select guided partitioning. So here it is. . . . On any screen that has the "back" option, select back to go to the main menu, and you will get that long list of options. You will see there, "Detect disk", "Partition disk", "Install the system". Select "Partition disk" You will then see a number of options; one being guided partitioning, but no option for manual partition. You have to select guided partition, in order to get to the manual partition. So what needs to be done on that screen, is the change the option name from "Guided partitioning" to something like "Partition options". Wayne Sallee wa...@waynesallee.com http://www.WayneSallee.com Actually what it needs is to put the manual partitioning options at the top, instead of (putting Guided partitioning at the top and defaulting the user to guided partitioning at the top) when the *user just got done selecting manual partitioning*. The manual partitioning options are unclearly buried at the bottom. I believe this would be a "feature request" contact the Debian Installer Team and ask politely https://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Team "unclear" is an opinion that I do not share Wayne Sallee wa...@waynesallee.com http://www.WayneSallee.com
Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke
Original Message *Subject: * Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke *From: * Wayne Sallee *To: * Debian-user *CC: * *Date: * 2019-10-23 10:37 AM Original Message *Subject: * Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke *From: * Christopher David Howie *To: * Debian-user *CC: * *Date: * 2019-10-22 12:43 PM On 10/13/19 6:56 PM, Wayne Sallee wrote: The non-graphical needs work too: There's no manual partitioning option without going first to guided partitioning This is patently false. Every Debian setup I have done in the last ten years I've done with manual partitioning in the text-mode installer. The option to do partitioning manually is among the guided options, you just have to select it. See the attached screenshot. I went back through my cd images, and had a hard time finding it. Finally I found it. Yes under normal circumstances the manual partitioning is there without having to select guided partitioning. But when I was writing up my info on how difficult the partitioning can be, I ran into the situation where there was no option to select manual portioning without first selecting guided partitioning, and was surprised and disappointed to see that debian makes you select guided partitioning in order to find the manual partitioning option. But sure enough, under normal circumstances the manual partitioning is available without having to select guided partitioning. So here it is. . . . On any screen that has the "back" option, select back to go to the main menu, and you will get that long list of options. You will see there, "Detect disk", "Partition disk", "Install the system". Select "Partition disk" You will then see a number of options; one being guided partitioning, but no option for manual partition. You have to select guided partition, in order to get to the manual partition. So what needs to be done on that screen, is the change the option name from "Guided partitioning" to something like "Partition options". Wayne Sallee wa...@waynesallee.com http://www.WayneSallee.com Actually what it needs is to put the manual partitioning options at the top, instead of (putting Guided partitioning at the top and defaulting the user to guided partitioning at the top) when the *user just got done selecting manual partitioning*. The manual partitioning options are unclearly buried at the bottom. Wayne Sallee wa...@waynesallee.com http://www.WayneSallee.com
Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke
On 10/23/2019 10:37 AM, Wayne Sallee wrote: > Select "Partition disk" > > You will then see a number of options; one being guided partitioning, > but no option for manual partition. What? This screen _is_ the manual partition editor! The "guided" option is displayed here so you can go back and change your mind if you want to do guided partitioning after entering the manual editor. All of your disks and existing partitions are displayed here; if a disk is empty, select it and press enter to create a partition table. -- Chris Howie http://www.chrishowie.com http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Crazycomputers If you correspond with me on a regular basis, please read this document: http://www.chrishowie.com/email-preferences/ PGP fingerprint: 2B7A B280 8B12 21CC 260A DF65 6FCE 505A CF83 38F5 IMPORTANT INFORMATION/DISCLAIMER This document should be read only by those persons to whom it is addressed. If you have received this message it was obviously addressed to you and therefore you can read it. Additionally, by sending an email to ANY of my addresses or to ANY mailing lists to which I am subscribed, whether intentionally or accidentally, you are agreeing that I am "the intended recipient," and that I may do whatever I wish with the contents of any message received from you, unless a pre-existing agreement prohibits me from so doing. This overrides any disclaimer or statement of confidentiality that may be included on your message.
Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke
Original Message *Subject: * Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke *From: * Christopher David Howie *To: * Debian-user *CC: * *Date: * 2019-10-22 12:43 PM On 10/13/19 6:56 PM, Wayne Sallee wrote: The non-graphical needs work too: There's no manual partitioning option without going first to guided partitioning This is patently false. Every Debian setup I have done in the last ten years I've done with manual partitioning in the text-mode installer. The option to do partitioning manually is among the guided options, you just have to select it. See the attached screenshot. I went back through my cd images, and had a hard time finding it. Finally I found it. Yes under normal circumstances the manual partitioning is there without having to select guided partitioning. But when I was writing up my info on how difficult the partitioning can be, I ran into the situation where there was no option to select manual portioning without first selecting guided partitioning, and was surprised and disappointed to see that debian makes you select guided partitioning in order to find the manual partitioning option. But sure enough, under normal circumstances the manual partitioning is available without having to select guided partitioning. So here it is. . . . On any screen that has the "back" option, select back to go to the main menu, and you will get that long list of options. You will see there, "Detect disk", "Partition disk", "Install the system". Select "Partition disk" You will then see a number of options; one being guided partitioning, but no option for manual partition. You have to select guided partition, in order to get to the manual partition. So what needs to be done on that screen, is the change the option name from "Guided partitioning" to something like "Partition options". Wayne Sallee wa...@waynesallee.com http://www.WayneSallee.com
Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke
On 10/13/19 6:56 PM, Wayne Sallee wrote: > The non-graphical needs work too: > There's no manual partitioning option without going first to guided > partitioning This is patently false. Every Debian setup I have done in the last ten years I've done with manual partitioning in the text-mode installer. The option to do partitioning manually is among the guided options, you just have to select it. See the attached screenshot. -- Chris Howie http://www.chrishowie.com http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Crazycomputers If you correspond with me on a regular basis, please read this document: http://www.chrishowie.com/email-preferences/ PGP fingerprint: 2B7A B280 8B12 21CC 260A DF65 6FCE 505A CF83 38F5 IMPORTANT INFORMATION/DISCLAIMER This document should be read only by those persons to whom it is addressed. If you have received this message it was obviously addressed to you and therefore you can read it. Additionally, by sending an email to ANY of my addresses or to ANY mailing lists to which I am subscribed, whether intentionally or accidentally, you are agreeing that I am "the intended recipient," and that I may do whatever I wish with the contents of any message received from you, unless a pre-existing agreement prohibits me from so doing. This overrides any disclaimer or statement of confidentiality that may be included on your message.
Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke
Hi. Posting HTML mail here is considered bad manners. Please configure your e-mail client appropriately. Also, please refrain from top-posting, this is a maillist, not your typical enterprisey spamfest. On Sun, Oct 20, 2019 at 08:00:13AM -0400, Wayne Sallee wrote: > I like Virtual Box on my laptop, but then I only have about 2 dozen operating > systems in Virtualbox on my laptop. VirtualBox has its share of deficiencies, but even in its sad state it should be more than enough to test various aspects of debian-installer, that's true. Reco
Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke
I appreciate your interest, but wow! Such disdain for virtual systems. You should learn about the value of virtual systems. I like Virtual Box on my laptop, but then I only have about 2 dozen operating systems in Virtualbox on my laptop. Wayne Sallee wa...@waynesallee.com http://www.WayneSallee.com Original Message *Subject: * Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke *From: * Peter Ehlert *To: * Wayne Sallee , Debian-user *CC: * *Date: * 2019-10-14 11:55 AM I have never tried to install Debian with virtualbox. Bare Metal is obviously very different... perhaps that is the root of the problems you are having. I suggest you read about it in the Debian Wiki. so, let's chalk this one up to user error best of luck. On 10/14/19 8:12 AM, Wayne Sallee wrote: I used virtualbox; no need to burn any CD or USB. 8ec21625aadaddec8ba0de0ff915db03 debian-live-10.1.0-amd64-mate.iso ab54364f4e066bba8d2010b5f8c0daad debian-live-9.2.0-amd64-mate.iso Wayne Sallee wa...@waynesallee.com http://www.WayneSallee.com Original Message *Subject: * Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke *From: * Peter Ehlert *To: * Debian-user *CC: * *Date: * 2019-10-14 09:51 AM I am no expert but I am more than willing to follow along. Perhaps you have found a bug. I don't have an optical drive, I use USB, but that should not matter. 10.1.0 Live? Let's be more precise. looking in https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/10.1.0-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/ I find 8 different versions (desktops) ... Which ISO are you using?
Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke
@Linux-Fan thanks for the screenshots, they are very helpful. In my opinion the Debian installer is awesome, best in the business. it is very powerful, but intimidating... that was the main reason I used the derivatives until just the last few years. But to be honest we (users) need to work on helping the developers making Debian more accessible. On 10/14/19 2:08 PM, Linux-Fan wrote: Wayne Sallee writes: The non-graphical needs work too: Hi, so here it's non-graphical... There's no manual partitioning option without going first to guided partitioning, so if you don't like the way it wants to partition the drive, and you look for manual parition, that option is not available. Odly enough the manual partition option is only available inside the guided partition options. I think this should not be the case. There's a false warning about no root file system defined. Chosing "continue" gets you back to the partition options, and the root partition shows normal, but if you chose the root partition to fix it, there are a lot of options missing. It's broken. You have to choose "back", or "guided" partitioning to fix it. So if you want to follow along for the ride, put the 10.1.0 Live Install CD in, and when you get to the partition option, ...and here it's graphical. Which one does not offer manual partitioning from the beginning? Graphical Debian Installer OK Language, and other stuff :-) OK Guided Use Entire Disk Why? Why not chose manual partitioning? The option is there... [...] I'm tired of this. Goodby. I'm using the non-graphical version from now on. [...] I prefer the non-graphical version as well, but I had no issues doing manual partitioning with the GUI (without venturing first into the guided partitioning submenu, which I have never used), see these step-by-step images: https://masysma.lima-city.de/experiments/20191014223544.xhtml HTH Linux-Fan
Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke
Maybe just bite the bullet, donload GPartEd Live and get the partitions done before Debian install goes into action. Just an idea. Paul (Going back to lurking) On Mon, 14 Oct 2019 at 12:12, Peter Ehlert wrote: > I have never tried to install Debian with virtualbox. > Bare Metal is obviously very different... perhaps that is the root of the > problems you are having. > > I suggest you read about it in the Debian Wiki. > > so, let's chalk this one up to user error > > best of luck. > > On 10/14/19 8:12 AM, Wayne Sallee wrote: > > I used virtualbox; no need to burn any CD or USB. > > 8ec21625aadaddec8ba0de0ff915db03 debian-live-10.1.0-amd64-mate.iso > ab54364f4e066bba8d2010b5f8c0daad debian-live-9.2.0-amd64-mate.iso > > > Wayne Sallee > wa...@waynesallee.com > http://www.WayneSallee.com > > ---- Original Message ---- > *Subject: * Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke > *From: * Peter Ehlert > *To: * Debian-user > > *CC: * > *Date: * 2019-10-14 09:51 AM > > I am no expert but I am more than willing to follow along. > Perhaps you have found a bug. > I don't have an optical drive, I use USB, but that should not matter. > > > > > 10.1.0 Live? > Let's be more precise. > > looking in > https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/10.1.0-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/ > I find 8 different versions (desktops) ... Which ISO are you using? > > > -- *Paul Duncan* Lead Marine Technician, RV Falkor SCHMIDT OCEAN INSTITUTE mobile +1 650 387 4151 VOIP +1 954 672 4943 www.schmidtocean.org Follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Google+ *This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged* *information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you have received it in* *error, please advise the sender by reply email and delete the message and any attachments. Thank you.*
Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke
Wayne Sallee writes: The non-graphical needs work too: Hi, so here it's non-graphical... There's no manual partitioning option without going first to guided partitioning, so if you don't like the way it wants to partition the drive, and you look for manual parition, that option is not available. Odly enough the manual partition option is only available inside the guided partition options. I think this should not be the case. There's a false warning about no root file system defined. Chosing "continue" gets you back to the partition options, and the root partition shows normal, but if you chose the root partition to fix it, there are a lot of options missing. It's broken. You have to choose "back", or "guided" partitioning to fix it. So if you want to follow along for the ride, put the 10.1.0 Live Install CD in, and when you get to the partition option, ...and here it's graphical. Which one does not offer manual partitioning from the beginning? Graphical Debian Installer OK Language, and other stuff :-) OK Guided Use Entire Disk Why? Why not chose manual partitioning? The option is there... [...] I'm tired of this. Goodby. I'm using the non-graphical version from now on. [...] I prefer the non-graphical version as well, but I had no issues doing manual partitioning with the GUI (without venturing first into the guided partitioning submenu, which I have never used), see these step-by-step images: https://masysma.lima-city.de/experiments/20191014223544.xhtml HTH Linux-Fan
Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke
I have never tried to install Debian with virtualbox. Bare Metal is obviously very different... perhaps that is the root of the problems you are having. I suggest you read about it in the Debian Wiki. so, let's chalk this one up to user error best of luck. On 10/14/19 8:12 AM, Wayne Sallee wrote: I used virtualbox; no need to burn any CD or USB. 8ec21625aadaddec8ba0de0ff915db03 debian-live-10.1.0-amd64-mate.iso ab54364f4e066bba8d2010b5f8c0daad debian-live-9.2.0-amd64-mate.iso Wayne Sallee wa...@waynesallee.com http://www.WayneSallee.com Original Message *Subject: * Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke *From: * Peter Ehlert *To: * Debian-user *CC: * *Date: * 2019-10-14 09:51 AM I am no expert but I am more than willing to follow along. Perhaps you have found a bug. I don't have an optical drive, I use USB, but that should not matter. 10.1.0 Live? Let's be more precise. looking in https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/10.1.0-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/ I find 8 different versions (desktops) ... Which ISO are you using?
Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke
I used virtualbox; no need to burn any CD or USB. 8ec21625aadaddec8ba0de0ff915db03 debian-live-10.1.0-amd64-mate.iso ab54364f4e066bba8d2010b5f8c0daad debian-live-9.2.0-amd64-mate.iso Wayne Sallee wa...@waynesallee.com http://www.WayneSallee.com Original Message *Subject: * Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke *From: * Peter Ehlert *To: * Debian-user *CC: * *Date: * 2019-10-14 09:51 AM I am no expert but I am more than willing to follow along. Perhaps you have found a bug. I don't have an optical drive, I use USB, but that should not matter. 10.1.0 Live? Let's be more precise. looking in https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/10.1.0-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/ I find 8 different versions (desktops) ... Which ISO are you using?
Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke
I am no expert but I am more than willing to follow along. Perhaps you have found a bug. I don't have an optical drive, I use USB, but that should not matter. On 10/13/19 3:56 PM, Wayne Sallee wrote: The non-graphical needs work too: There's no manual partitioning option without going first to guided partitioning, so if you don't like the way it wants to partition the drive, and you look for manual parition, that option is not available. Odly enough the manual partition option is only available inside the guided partition options. There's a false warning about no root file system defined. Chosing "continue" gets you back to the partition options, and the root partition shows normal, but if you chose the root partition to fix it, there are a lot of options missing. It's broken. You have to choose "back", or "guided" partitioning to fix it. So if you want to follow along for the ride, put the 10.1.0 Live Install CD in, and when you get to the partition option, 10.1.0 Live? Let's be more precise. looking in https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/10.1.0-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/ I find 8 different versions (desktops) ... Which ISO are you using? Graphical Debian Installer Language, and other stuff :-) Guided Use Entire Disk Continue on selected disk All files on on partition Click on Swap Delete the partition Click on Primary Extention 4 Resize partition There is no resize partition. Really??? So I guess we will have to delete the partition Delete Partition Create Partition There is no create partition. Click on empty space. Create Partition Continue Primary Looks good. Continue. Ext4 Didn't we just see this same page before? Continue Ext 4 Ok, we are going in circles here. Around and around we go, where we stop nobody knows. Done setting up partition Good we are not going in circles any more. Continue We are going in circles again. Continue Finish partitioning, and write changes to disk. no swap continue yes write to disk continue Finally it's installing. Now let's try it with Debian live 9.2.0 Graphical Installer Language, and other stuff :-) Guided Use Entire Disk Continue on selected disk All files in one partition Click on main disk Nothing happens. Double click on main disk. What's this??? Go back. Click on Swap Nothing happens. That's fine. Double click on swap Delete partition. Double click on ext4 Resize Partition What no resize option??? Delete partition Click on free space Create new partition Looks good Continue Primary Continue Oh yes this is where it goes in circles. Hey look there is a resize partition option whey was it not there before? Done setting up partition. Looks good Continue. Oh yes this is where we go in circles again. Finish partition and write to disk. No swap continue What?? why is "write the changes to disk" in small dim letters? So after reading all the other not so clear stuff I see the "write the changes to disk", oh there it is, yes, do it. What??? yes the hard drive has files on it, yes it will overwrite, yes I know that, but why is it complaining that those files could cause a problem with the current installation ? And some of the files may be overwritten??? They should all be overwritten. Something is obviously wrong here. I'll click continue anyway. :-) Install failed. It does not really say why. It just said that the "install the system" failed. Continue Continue We are going in circles again. It is again saying that there are files already on the disk. No Back button. What happened to the "back" button ??? Continue Yes of course it fails. Continue Partition disk It looks good, but click on ext4 partition anyway. "Format partition: no keep partition" What Delete the partition Click on free space Nothing happens. Double click on free space. Nothing happens. Continue Create new partition (There's no "Delet partiton") Size looks good Continue Primary I can see that it is really not going to create a partition, it is going to reuse the partition with data on it. But at least now there is an option to "delet partition" Delete Partition Click on free space Create new partition. Size looks good. Continue Primary It still does not look right, but let's try clicking on "Done setting up the partition" and see if it works. Done setting up the partition Double clicking did not do anything. Continue Let's go back and try double clicking again. Back Whoa What are we doing back at the main menue. I'm tired of this. Goodby. I'm using the non-graphical version from now on. Wayne Sallee wa...@waynesallee.com http://www.WayneSallee.com Original Message *Subject: * Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke *From: * Peter Ehl
Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke
e the partition with data on it. But at least now there is an option to "delet partition" Delete Partition Click on free space Create new partition. Size looks good. Continue Primary It still does not look right, but let's try clicking on "Done setting up the partition" and see if it works. Done setting up the partition Double clicking did not do anything. Continue Let's go back and try double clicking again. Back Whoa What are we doing back at the main menue. I'm tired of this. Goodby. I'm using the non-graphical version from now on. Wayne Sallee wa...@waynesallee.com http://www.WayneSallee.com Original Message *Subject: * Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke *From: * Peter Ehlert *To: * Debian-user *CC: * *Date: * 2019-10-2 08:28 AM Thanks for coming back Wayne Can you please take a few minutes and explain Exactly which items you are having trouble with. On 10/1/19 10:34 AM, Wayne Sallee wrote: (snip) With the graphical version, some items when you click on them, you get some kind of results, other items when you click on them, do nothing. With the graphical version, it takes you in circles. Around and around you go, where you'll stop nobody knows. With the graphical version it takes for ever to try to get simple things done. ^^ that really does not say anything sir. "some items" , "some kind of results" , "in circles" etc. please explain Yes, it is a bit intimidating the first few times around, but pleas help us out. Wayne Sallee wa...@waynesallee.com http://www.WayneSallee.com
Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke
Thanks for coming back Wayne Can you please take a few minutes and explain Exactly which items you are having trouble with. On 10/1/19 10:34 AM, Wayne Sallee wrote: (snip) With the graphical version, some items when you click on them, you get some kind of results, other items when you click on them, do nothing. With the graphical version, it takes you in circles. Around and around you go, where you'll stop nobody knows. With the graphical version it takes for ever to try to get simple things done. ^^ that really does not say anything sir. "some items" , "some kind of results" , "in circles" etc. please explain Yes, it is a bit intimidating the first few times around, but pleas help us out. Wayne Sallee wa...@waynesallee.com http://www.WayneSallee.com Original Message ---- *Subject: * Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke *From: * Linux-fan *To: * Debian-user *CC: * *Date: * 2019-9-29 11:51 AM Wayne Sallee writes: What partitioning tool are you talking about? Wayne Sallee mailto:wa...@waynesallee.com>wa...@waynesallee.com http://www.WayneSallee.com>http://www.WayneSallee.com When I think of the debian partitioning tool, I think of this one: https://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2014/04/pngqsHcq7etg4.png It is very good in the sense that it exposes a lot of features (e.g. wrt. RAID, Encryption and LVM) in a consistent user interface. At least it is much more consistent, than interacting with the different software pieces for RAID, Encryption, LVM separately. It has worked well for me every time I used it and that was possibly ~30 times and at least three different Debian versions (I think I installed lenny, squeeze, stretch). It has not stayed exactly the same between the versions, but it does not change in ways that would confuse users which know (any?) previous version. I have seen a lot of other partitioning tools, integrated in installers and outside of them. Outside installers, tools are often more focused on a specific task (like Gparted to do partitions and partition tables but not RAID setup etc) which means one would need to learn multiple tools to achieve a working system. To learn how it works, I also setup MDADM-Raid and LUKS-Encryption a few times by using the respective tools, but it was much more involved than just relying on the installer. From my point of view, the installer does such good a job at partitioning, that it would make sense to have just that feature as a standalone program to call on systems which are already installed [I know that I can boot the installer for this, but partitioning without stopping unaffected services would be nice, too]. The other partitioning systems I have seen in installers were often quite strange, because they tend to offer a "guided" mode like Debian, but in the "manual" mode still do some (to me sometimes unexpected) things automatically. E.g. if you install Windows 10, IIRC, there is a manual partitioning step which automatically creates two partitions if you create one for the system drive... Another style of installation is with the CentOS installer: I think I like it acceptably well, too. But being a more "modern" looking GUI program, I must admit that for the few times I have used that installer's partitioning features (three times or so), I needed to figure out how to "apply" my changes anew each time. Debian's dialog-driven wizard- like interface requires a few more keystrokes, but makes indicates quite clearly if it has taken a user's input or not, thus I think it is better- suited for this critical but rarely-executed task. [Note that I am not N. Dobigeon, just /my/ opinion on what the Debian Partitioning tool and its merits are in case it might help to find out what exactly is wrong about the partitioning step and how it can be improved...] YMMV Linux-Fan *Subject: * Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke *From: * Nicolas Dobigeon Your mail is a joke, I think debian partitionning tool is the best i tried. It's your taste but don't tell it's a joke. Le 29/09/2019 à 16:56, Wayne Sallee a écrit : Debian really needs to work on the manual partitioning part of the installation. It's absolutely pathetic. [...]
Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke
I decided to try out the
non-graphical installation version, and it works good. I like it.
It works the way it should work.
But the graphical version is horrible. From now on I will stick
with the non-graphical version for installing Debian.
With the graphical version, some items when you click on them, you
get some kind of results, other items when you click on them, do
nothing.
With the graphical version, it takes you in circles. Around and
around you go, where you'll stop nobody knows.
With the graphical version it takes for ever to try to get simple
things done.
With the non-graphical version, I can zip through it quickly and
get it set up the way I want, and be done with it in a short time.
Wayne Sallee
wa...@waynesallee.com
http://www.WayneSallee.com
Original Message
*Subject: * Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke
*From: * Linux-fan
*To: * Debian-user
*CC: *
*Date: * 2019-9-29 11:51 AM
Wayne Sallee
writes:
What partitioning tool are you talking
about?
Wayne Sallee
wa...@waynesallee.com
http://www.WayneSallee.com
When I think of the debian partitioning tool, I think of this one:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2014/04/pngqsHcq7etg4.png
It is very good in the sense that it exposes a lot of features
(e.g. wrt.
RAID, Encryption and LVM) in a consistent user interface. At least
it is
much more consistent, than interacting with the different software
pieces
for RAID, Encryption, LVM separately.
It has worked well for me every time I used it and that was
possibly ~30
times and at least three different Debian versions (I think I
installed
lenny, squeeze, stretch). It has not stayed exactly the same
between the
versions, but it does not change in ways that would confuse users
which know
(any?) previous version.
I have seen a lot of other partitioning tools, integrated in
installers and
outside of them. Outside installers, tools are often more focused
on a
specific task (like Gparted to do partitions and partition tables
but not
RAID setup etc) which means one would need to learn multiple tools
to
achieve a working system. To learn how it works, I also setup
MDADM-Raid
and LUKS-Encryption a few times by using the respective tools, but
it was
much more involved than just relying on the installer. From my
point of
view, the installer does such good a job at partitioning, that it
would make
sense to have just that feature as a standalone program to call on
systems
which are already installed [I know that I can boot the installer
for this,
but partitioning without stopping unaffected services would be
nice, too].
The other partitioning systems I have seen in installers were
often quite
strange, because they tend to offer a "guided" mode like Debian,
but in the
"manual" mode still do some (to me sometimes unexpected) things
automatically. E.g. if you install Windows 10, IIRC, there is a
manual
partitioning step which automatically creates two partitions if
you create
one for the system drive... Another style of installation is with
the CentOS
installer: I think I like it acceptably well, too. But being a
more "modern"
looking GUI program, I must admit that for the few times I have
used that
installer's partitioning features (three times or so), I needed to
figure
out how to "apply" my changes anew each time. Debian's
dialog-driven wizard-
like interface requires a few more keystrokes, but makes indicates
quite
clearly if it has taken a user's input or not, thus I think it is
better-
suited for this critical but rarely-executed task.
[Note that I am not N. Dobigeon, just /my/ opinion on what the
Debian
Partitioning tool and its merits are in case it might help to find
out what
exactly is wrong about the partitioning step and how it can be
improved...]
YMMV
Linux-Fan
*Subject: * Re: Debian Installer, Manual
Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke
On 29/09/2019 21:32, Liam O'Toole wrote: > On Sun, 29 Sep, 2019 at 10:56:54 -0400, Wayne Sallee wrote: >> Debian really needs to work on the manual partitioning part of the >> installation. >> >> It's absolutely pathetic. >> >> Wayne Sallee >> wa...@waynesallee.com >> http://www.WayneSallee.com >> > > Thank you for your contribution. I look forward to reading your > proposals for improving Debian, and how you intend to contribute. > Don't feed the trolls. -- Tony van der Hoff| mailto:t...@vanderhoff.org Buckinghamshire, England |
Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke
On Sun, 29 Sep, 2019 at 10:56:54 -0400, Wayne Sallee wrote: > Debian really needs to work on the manual partitioning part of the > installation. > > It's absolutely pathetic. > > Wayne Sallee > wa...@waynesallee.com > http://www.WayneSallee.com > Thank you for your contribution. I look forward to reading your proposals for improving Debian, and how you intend to contribute.
Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke
Wayne Sallee wrote: > Debian really needs to work on the manual partitioning part of the > installation. > > It's absolutely pathetic. Do you have specific suggestions for improvement? -dsr-
Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke
Wayne Sallee writes: What partitioning tool are you talking about? Wayne Sallee mailto:wa...@waynesallee.com>wa...@waynesallee.com http://www.WayneSallee.com>http://www.WayneSallee.com When I think of the debian partitioning tool, I think of this one: https://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2014/04/pngqsHcq7etg4.png It is very good in the sense that it exposes a lot of features (e.g. wrt. RAID, Encryption and LVM) in a consistent user interface. At least it is much more consistent, than interacting with the different software pieces for RAID, Encryption, LVM separately. It has worked well for me every time I used it and that was possibly ~30 times and at least three different Debian versions (I think I installed lenny, squeeze, stretch). It has not stayed exactly the same between the versions, but it does not change in ways that would confuse users which know (any?) previous version. I have seen a lot of other partitioning tools, integrated in installers and outside of them. Outside installers, tools are often more focused on a specific task (like Gparted to do partitions and partition tables but not RAID setup etc) which means one would need to learn multiple tools to achieve a working system. To learn how it works, I also setup MDADM-Raid and LUKS-Encryption a few times by using the respective tools, but it was much more involved than just relying on the installer. From my point of view, the installer does such good a job at partitioning, that it would make sense to have just that feature as a standalone program to call on systems which are already installed [I know that I can boot the installer for this, but partitioning without stopping unaffected services would be nice, too]. The other partitioning systems I have seen in installers were often quite strange, because they tend to offer a "guided" mode like Debian, but in the "manual" mode still do some (to me sometimes unexpected) things automatically. E.g. if you install Windows 10, IIRC, there is a manual partitioning step which automatically creates two partitions if you create one for the system drive... Another style of installation is with the CentOS installer: I think I like it acceptably well, too. But being a more "modern" looking GUI program, I must admit that for the few times I have used that installer's partitioning features (three times or so), I needed to figure out how to "apply" my changes anew each time. Debian's dialog-driven wizard- like interface requires a few more keystrokes, but makes indicates quite clearly if it has taken a user's input or not, thus I think it is better- suited for this critical but rarely-executed task. [Note that I am not N. Dobigeon, just /my/ opinion on what the Debian Partitioning tool and its merits are in case it might help to find out what exactly is wrong about the partitioning step and how it can be improved...] YMMV Linux-Fan *Subject: * Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke *From: * Nicolas Dobigeon Your mail is a joke, I think debian partitionning tool is the best i tried. It's your taste but don't tell it's a joke. Le 29/09/2019 à 16:56, Wayne Sallee a écrit : Debian really needs to work on the manual partitioning part of the installation. It's absolutely pathetic. [...]
Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke
On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 10:56:54 -0400 Wayne Sallee wrote: > Debian really needs to work on the manual partitioning part of the > installation. > > It's absolutely pathetic. Some more detail would be useful. For example,how would you do it better? Code submissions would be welcome. -- Does anybody read signatures any more? https://charlescurley.com https://charlescurley.com/blog/
Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke
What partitioning tool are you talking about? Wayne Sallee wa...@waynesallee.com http://www.WayneSallee.com Original Message *Subject: * Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke *From: * Nicolas Dobigeon *To: * Wayne Sallee , Debian User *CC: * *Date: * 2019-9-29 11:09 AM Your mail is a joke, I think debian partitionning tool is the best i tried. It's your taste but don't tell it's a joke. Le 29/09/2019 à 16:56, Wayne Sallee a écrit : Debian really needs to work on the manual partitioning part of the installation. It's absolutely pathetic. Wayne Sallee wa...@waynesallee.com http://www.WayneSallee.com
Re: Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke
Your mail is a joke, I think debian partitionning tool is the best i tried. It's your taste but don't tell it's a joke. Le 29/09/2019 à 16:56, Wayne Sallee a écrit : Debian really needs to work on the manual partitioning part of the installation. It's absolutely pathetic. Wayne Sallee wa...@waynesallee.com http://www.WayneSallee.com
Debian Installer, Manual Partitioning is a Joke
Debian really needs to work on the manual partitioning part of the installation. It's absolutely pathetic. Wayne Sallee wa...@waynesallee.com http://www.WayneSallee.com
