Re: Debian Programming languages

[Henrique de Moraes Holschuh]

On Sat, 25 May 2019, Kenneth Parker wrote:
> As one who has been involved in "low level plumbing", since the 1970's
> (including on IBM Mainframe Computers), I'm not afraid of Assembler
> Language.  I'm surprised, that I didn't know about Rust (package rustc).
> Thanks for alerting me!

Rust, the language, is nice.  Rust, the implementation of that language
we have right now, not so much.

Watch out for limited set of target architectures, for example.  You
wouldn't be able to use it for *Debian* low-level pumbling, yet.

-- 
  Henrique Holschuh

Re: Debian Programming languages

[Kenneth Parker]

On Fri, May 24, 2019 at 9:35 PM Dekks Herton  wrote:

> Paul Sutton  writes:
>
> > Hi
> >
> > As I am trying to promote contributing to Debian,  what programming
> > languages are mostly used?  I am asking as it helps to give people an
> > idea of what they need to learn or will learn as part of helping.
>
> AFAIK Kernel + low level plumbing are primarily Assembly,C,C++,Rust
>

As one who has been involved in "low level plumbing", since the 1970's
(including on IBM Mainframe Computers), I'm not afraid of Assembler
Language.  I'm surprised, that I didn't know about Rust (package rustc).
Thanks for alerting me!



-- 
> Regards.
>
> PGP Fingerprint: 3DF8 311C 4740 B5BC 3867  72DF 1050 452F 9BCE BA00
>

Kenneth Parker

Re: Debian Programming languages

[황병희]

Hellow~

> I am guessing as the default command line interface is bash, then bash
> and bash scripting would be useful to learn but on top of that what
> would people suggest I try and promote.

To me, Python is easy, useful, for example, my custom message-id[1] is
from python3. Also Python is good with combine Bash command, you know
subprocess module within Python.

Sincerely, Byung-Hee from South Korea.

[1] 
https://gitlab.com/soyeomul/Gnus/raw/89bdb255a3fe7843da00d216e934c43120c373a9/thanks-mid.py

-- 
^고맙습니다 _地平天成_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: Debian Programming languages

[songbird]

James H. H. Lampert wrote:
> Just out of morbid curiosity: what about a full ANSI PL/I?
>
> (And the mere fact that I'm asking ages me.)

  mu!  (unasking makes you younger?!  :) )A

  ancient languages i've used but not in quite a long
time now.

  COBOL, SNOBOL, ALGOL, LISP

  of all of them i actually wrote production code in
Pascal, assembler, COBOL and C (with embedded SQL).

  i also wrote a ton of code in C for classwork and
that was the main language i "thought" in.  some of 
those projects were quite large (write a compiler,
assembler, linking-loader, interpreter, OS, editor,
multiprocessor microcode simulator, etc.)  i'm not 
sure anyone actually teaches these that much these
days.

  for most of my projects here i mostly did either C
or shell scripts.

  recently i started picking up Python and it has been
ok so far, but there is still much about OOP that i
don't fully understand.  at a full time effort i think
it takes several years to really get a language.  since
i'm not doing this full time i expect by the time i
get to retirement age i'll have got it down well 
enough.

  my first Python program i don't consider OOP much
at all, but it went quickly enough.  next winter i
hope to revisit it and see what i can do to make it
a better structured program and more OOP.

  i'm too busy in the summer to really put much into
learning new things unless it is something quick that
will stick.


  songbird

Re: Debian Programming languages

[tomas]

On Sat, May 25, 2019 at 07:43:05PM +0300, Ryan Dean wrote:
> This is such an amazing topic which language is most widely used and which
> most useful. Many CS people only want to focus, do not want waste time in
> learning milllions of different languages, which will cause language
> barriers. We have limited amount of time and millions of other things in
> real life in addition to programming

Because there's just one tool in my workshop :-)

On the contrary: learning new languages helped me perfect my mastery
of those I thought I knew already.

Learning an OOP language made me a better C programer. Learning a
functional language made me a better C programmer. And so on.

Speaking several human languages is also a great experience.

Cheers
-- tomás


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Re: Debian Programming languages

[Ryan Dean]

This is such an amazing topic which language is most widely used and which
most useful. Many CS people only want to focus, do not want waste time in
learning milllions of different languages, which will cause language
barriers. We have limited amount of time and millions of other things in
real life in addition to programming

On Sat, May 25, 2019 at 6:25 PM Paul Sutton  wrote:

> Hi All
>
> Just to say thank for the information.  I have made a short blog post on
> some of the languages mentioned and put links to what I would hope are
> useful related resources.
>
> http://zleap.net/debian-getting-started-3/
>
> I am trying to write this so I can hopefully encourage those who are
> learning to write code to get involved with Debian so their skills can
> be improved through helping,  I have learnt a heck of a lot just by
> being here doing what I have done so far.
>
> I will probably add to this further but it's up.
>
> Hopefully all this is helpful.
>
> Paul
>
>
> On 24/05/2019 16:08, Paul Sutton wrote:
>
> > Hi
> >
> > As I am trying to promote contributing to Debian,  what programming
> > languages are mostly used?  I am asking as it helps to give people an
> > idea of what they need to learn or will learn as part of helping.
> >
> > I am guessing as the default command line interface is bash, then bash
> > and bash scripting would be useful to learn but on top of that what
> > would people suggest I try and promote.
> >
> > Not just on the coding side of things as we have markdown / html / css
> > perhaps LaTeX for documentation.
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Paul
> >
> --
> Paul Sutton
> http://www.zleap.net
> https://www.linkedin.com/in/zleap/
> gnupg : 7D6D B682 F351 8D08 1893  1E16 F086 5537 D066 302D
>
>

Re: Debian Programming languages

[Paul Sutton]

Hi All

Just to say thank for the information.  I have made a short blog post on
some of the languages mentioned and put links to what I would hope are
useful related resources.

http://zleap.net/debian-getting-started-3/

I am trying to write this so I can hopefully encourage those who are
learning to write code to get involved with Debian so their skills can
be improved through helping,  I have learnt a heck of a lot just by
being here doing what I have done so far.

I will probably add to this further but it's up.

Hopefully all this is helpful.  

Paul


On 24/05/2019 16:08, Paul Sutton wrote:

> Hi
>
> As I am trying to promote contributing to Debian,  what programming
> languages are mostly used?  I am asking as it helps to give people an
> idea of what they need to learn or will learn as part of helping.
>
> I am guessing as the default command line interface is bash, then bash
> and bash scripting would be useful to learn but on top of that what
> would people suggest I try and promote.
>
> Not just on the coding side of things as we have markdown / html / css
> perhaps LaTeX for documentation.
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Paul
>
-- 
Paul Sutton
http://www.zleap.net
https://www.linkedin.com/in/zleap/
gnupg : 7D6D B682 F351 8D08 1893  1E16 F086 5537 D066 302D

Re: Debian Programming languages

[tomas]

On Fri, May 24, 2019 at 08:47:26PM +0100, Joe wrote:
> On Fri, 24 May 2019 20:28:04 +0200
> "Thomas Schmitt"  wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Glenn English wrote:
> > > LISP was the first high level language I
> > > learned. Thought I was going to die...  
> > 
> > Yeah. Why ain't there no Debian package with Guile ?
> >   https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/
> > 
> >
> geda-gschem and related electronics tools rely on Guile. I have Guile
> libraries 1.8, 2.0 and 2.2 installed, and they increase in size from
> 2.6MB to 11.8MB to 45MB. So something must still be going on...

Guile [1] has been seeing a renaissance for a couple of years now. The
last release (2.9.2 beta [2], leading to 3.0) is just two days old, and
is adding native compilation for architectures beyond X86_64.

A very interesting (and currently quite active) project written in Guile
is GNU Guix [3], a different kind of package manager (inspired by NixOS).

So Guile is alive and kicking :-)

Cheers

[1] https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/
[2] https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/news/gnu-guile-292-beta-released.html
[3] https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/

-- tomás


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Re: Debian Programming languages

[Alex Mestiashvili]

On 5/24/19 11:19 PM, Christian Groessler wrote:
> On 5/24/19 10:03 PM, Alex Mestiashvili wrote:
>> On 5/24/19 7:28 PM, Christian Groessler wrote:
>>> On 5/24/19 6:51 PM, john doe wrote:
 On 5/24/2019 6:14 PM, ghe wrote:
> Perl is happily off on it's own. "There's more than one way..." Boy is
> there ever. Nice to write, but it's next to impossible to understand
> other people's code. Python, IMHO, seems to be creeping up to replace
> it.
>>>
>>> I'm typically referring to perl as a "write-only" language. :-)
>>>
>>> But don't get me wrong, I like it...
>>>
>>> regards,
>>> chris
>>>
>> That is not true. The freedom to write unreadable code doesn't mean that
>> the language is bad.
> 
> 
> I guess you didn't notice the smiley in my message...
> 
> I'm sometimes having hmm.. let's say "problems" ... understanding what I
> had written ~10yrs ago. Typically regexp-related. That's not a problem
> of the language, but a problem in my understanding as I don't use perl
> on a day-to-day basis.
> 
> I stated "I like it", and that's true. I dislike python on the other
> hand...
> 
> regards,
> chris
> 

I did notice the smiley. But the jokes that perl is unreadable, looks
like line noise, write only, and so on, are repeated way too often and
decline Perl's reputation.

Well, the problem you described, isn't the problem of the language :)
Perl is easy to use and write condensed code, so many people abuse it
and write messy code.
Regexps can be also written in pretty clean multiline format with
comments should one want it.

So I basically came here to say that Perl is cool! :)

Best regards,
Alex

Re: Debian Programming languages

[Dekks Herton]

Paul Sutton  writes:

> Hi
>
> As I am trying to promote contributing to Debian,  what programming
> languages are mostly used?  I am asking as it helps to give people an
> idea of what they need to learn or will learn as part of helping.

AFAIK Kernel + low level plumbing are primarily Assembly,C,C++,Rust 

> I am guessing as the default command line interface is bash, then bash
> and bash scripting would be useful to learn but on top of that what
> would people suggest I try and promote.
>
> Not just on the coding side of things as we have markdown / html / css
> perhaps LaTeX for documentation.

For apps there are no hard and fast rules as there are a multitude of
langs used. Best to enquire of the devs of the particular app your
interested in.

> Thanks
>
> Paul

-- 
Regards.
 
PGP Fingerprint: 3DF8 311C 4740 B5BC 3867  72DF 1050 452F 9BCE BA00

Re: Debian Programming languages

[Kenneth Parker]

On Fri, May 24, 2019 at 12:15 PM ghe  wrote:

> On 5/24/19 9:08 AM, Paul Sutton wrote:
>
> > As I am trying to promote contributing to Debian,  what programming
> > languages are mostly used?
>
> C, perl, java, ruby, python, bash, that I know of. And probably several
> others. I don't recall seeing any COBOL, though :-)
>

COBOL?  How about https://packages.debian.org/stretch/open-cobol ?

   > OpenCOBOL implements substantial part of the COBOL 85 and
   > COBOL 2002 standards, as well as many extensions of the existent
   > compilers. OpenCOBOL translates COBOL into C and compiles
   > the translated code using GCC.

I may even Install this on my Stretch System, to bring back memories of my
IBM Mainframe Days, where I programmed, often heavily in COBOL, from 1974
to 1986.



-- 
> Glenn English
>
> Kenneth Parker

Re: Debian Programming languages

[ghe]

On 5/24/19 3:19 PM, Christian Groessler wrote:

> I dislike python on the other hand...

I did too, when I looked at it a few years ago. But Python3 looks
reasonably civilized.

And so the interpreter replaces 4 spaces with a semicolon. I think I can
live with that...

-- 
Glenn English

Re: Debian Programming languages

[Michael Lange]

Hi,

On Fri, 24 May 2019 19:45:23 +0200
"Thomas Schmitt"  wrote:

(...)
> (Astounding how few languages are mentioned there.
>  No Piet ? http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/piet/samples.html
> )

seems like Piet isn't really a Debian programming language.
At least Debian seems to have some support for Brainfuck :-)
(https://curlie.org/Computers/Programming/Languages/Brainfuck)

Regards

Michael


.-.. .. ...- .   .-.. --- -. --.   .- -. -..   .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-.

There comes to all races an ultimate crisis which you have yet to face
 One day our minds became so powerful we dared think of ourselves as
gods.
-- Sargon, "Return to Tomorrow", stardate 4768.3

Re: Debian Programming languages

[Christian Groessler]

On 5/24/19 10:03 PM, Alex Mestiashvili wrote:

On 5/24/19 7:28 PM, Christian Groessler wrote:

On 5/24/19 6:51 PM, john doe wrote:

On 5/24/2019 6:14 PM, ghe wrote:

Perl is happily off on it's own. "There's more than one way..." Boy is
there ever. Nice to write, but it's next to impossible to understand
other people's code. Python, IMHO, seems to be creeping up to replace
it.


I'm typically referring to perl as a "write-only" language. :-)

But don't get me wrong, I like it...

regards,
chris


That is not true. The freedom to write unreadable code doesn't mean that
the language is bad.



I guess you didn't notice the smiley in my message...

I'm sometimes having hmm.. let's say "problems" ... understanding what I 
had written ~10yrs ago. Typically regexp-related. That's not a problem 
of the language, but a problem in my understanding as I don't use perl 
on a day-to-day basis.


I stated "I like it", and that's true. I dislike python on the other hand...

regards,
chris

Re: Debian Programming languages

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Joe wrote:
> geda-gschem and related electronics tools rely on Guile. I have Guile
> libraries 1.8, 2.0 and 2.2 installed, and they increase in size from
> 2.6MB to 11.8MB to 45MB. So something must still be going on...

It is still the official glue language of GNU. (To my luck its use does
not get enforced in any way.)
There is Guix, a distro and/or package manager which makes heavy use of
Guile.

But as said, the Debian source line counter probably adds it to the Lisp
basket.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Debian Programming languages

[Alex Mestiashvili]

On 5/24/19 7:28 PM, Christian Groessler wrote:
> On 5/24/19 6:51 PM, john doe wrote:
>> On 5/24/2019 6:14 PM, ghe wrote:
>>> Perl is happily off on it's own. "There's more than one way..." Boy is
>>> there ever. Nice to write, but it's next to impossible to understand
>>> other people's code. Python, IMHO, seems to be creeping up to replace
>>> it.
> 
> 
> I'm typically referring to perl as a "write-only" language. :-)
> 
> But don't get me wrong, I like it...
> 
> regards,
> chris
> 

That is not true. The freedom to write unreadable code doesn't mean that
the language is bad.

Just as an example, look on Perl Dancer[0] framework. It's so damn easy
and clear, one can start using it just after going through the tutorial.

Best,
Alex

[0] https://metacpan.org/pod/Dancer2::Tutorial

Re: Debian Programming languages

[Joe]

On Fri, 24 May 2019 16:08:44 +0100
Paul Sutton  wrote:


> 
> Not just on the coding side of things as we have markdown / html / css
> perhaps LaTeX for documentation.
> 

I've done practically all my coding for the last ten years in php. With
a disparate collection of computing devices, web applications make
sense for me. But I'm a hobbyist, not a professional, and have never
done any system programming.

-- 
Joe

Re: Debian Programming languages

[Joe]

On Fri, 24 May 2019 20:28:04 +0200
"Thomas Schmitt"  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Glenn English wrote:
> > LISP was the first high level language I
> > learned. Thought I was going to die...  
> 
> Yeah. Why ain't there no Debian package with Guile ?
>   https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/
> 
>
geda-gschem and related electronics tools rely on Guile. I have Guile
libraries 1.8, 2.0 and 2.2 installed, and they increase in size from
2.6MB to 11.8MB to 45MB. So something must still be going on...

-- 
Joe

Re: Debian Programming languages

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Glenn English wrote:
> LISP was the first high level language I
> learned. Thought I was going to die...

Yeah. Why ain't there no Debian package with Guile ?
  https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/

  https://codesearch.debian.net/search?q=guile
yields (after choosing a package)

  
https://sources.debian.org/src/supertux/0.6.0-1/tools/levelconverter-0.1.3_0.2.0.scm/?hl=1#L1
  #!/usr/bin/guile -s

Probably Guile and Scheme are counted as Lisp.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Debian Programming languages

[James H. H. Lampert]

On 5/24/19, 11:00 AM, ghe wrote:

I forgot about LISP too. LISP was the first high level language I
learned. Thought I was going to die...


(CLUTTER CLUTTER (CDR CLUTTER)) is probably the only s-expression I 
still remember from over half a lifetime ago. (It's a line of code from 
the "Blocks World" exercise in my old (LISP) textbook).


--
JHHL

Re: Debian Programming languages

[Christian Groessler]

On 5/24/19 6:51 PM, john doe wrote:

On 5/24/2019 6:14 PM, ghe wrote:

Perl is happily off on it's own. "There's more than one way..." Boy is
there ever. Nice to write, but it's next to impossible to understand
other people's code. Python, IMHO, seems to be creeping up to replace it.



I'm typically referring to perl as a "write-only" language. :-)

But don't get me wrong, I like it...

regards,
chris

Re: Debian Programming languages

[ghe]

On 5/24/19 11:45 AM, Thomas Schmitt wrote:

> 1,122 lines of code in Buster.

Oh. So that's what's wrong with Buster :-)

> (Astounding how few languages are mentioned there.
>  No Piet ? http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/piet/samples.html

I forgot about LISP too. LISP was the first high level language I
learned. Thought I was going to die...

-- 
Glenn English

Re: Debian Programming languages

[Tom Browder]

On Fri, May 24, 2019 at 12:43 Jonas Smedegaard  wrote:
...

> That's plain wrong: Debian has perl at its core, and Python not.
>
> Also, your simplification of Perl is common among folks ignorant about
> Perl but is wrong as well: You _can_ write difficult-to-read code in
> Perl by by no means do you need to, and most Perl code in Debian - i.e.
> the thousands of CPAN modules, does not use a difficult-to-read coding
> style.


To add support to Jonas' reply:

Perl 6 development is definitely NOT stalled. We have four GSoC students
working on serious projects for the Perl 6 community. We welcome all to
visit  and join the fun! (We did have some server
problems recently which may have led you to think development has stalled.)

Warmest regards,

-Tom

#perl6, #perl6-dev alias: tbrowder
github: tbrowder

Re: Debian Programming languages

[James H. H. Lampert]

Just out of morbid curiosity: what about a full ANSI PL/I?

--
JHHL
(And the mere fact that I'm asking ages me.)

Re: Debian Programming languages

[ghe]

On 5/24/19 11:21 AM, mick crane wrote:


>> On 5/24/19 9:08 AM, Paul Sutton wrote:

> What goes on with Perl ?

Can you say "Python"?

Perl was great a while back, but it leaves something to be desired today.

-- 
Glenn English

Re: Debian Programming languages

[ghe]

On 5/24/19 11:42 AM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:

> That's plain wrong: Debian has perl at its core, and Python not.

Please note the word "creeping." Perl is used a lot -- it's a very
powerful language, but its syntax and data structures are less than optimal.

I've written a lot of Perl, but I've become a Python convert. Python has
its warts too, but it sure is easier to live with than Perl is.

-- 
Glenn English

Re: Debian Programming languages

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting mick crane (2019-05-24 19:21:33)
> On 2019-05-24 17:14, ghe wrote:
> > On 5/24/19 9:08 AM, Paul Sutton wrote:
> > 
> >> As I am trying to promote contributing to Debian,  what programming
> >> languages are mostly used?
> > 
> > C, perl, java, ruby, python, bash, that I know of. And probably several
> > others. I don't recall seeing any COBOL, though :-)
> 
> > Perl is happily off on it's own.
> 
> What goes on with Perl ?
> There is Perl6 but development is stalled ?

Perl is alive and well.

Perl6 (a different thing derived from perl) is progressing, not stalled.

 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private


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Re: Debian Programming languages

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

ghe wrote:
> I don't recall seeing any COBOL, though :-)

1,122 lines of code in Buster.
See
  https://sources.debian.org/stats/#sloc_current


(Astounding how few languages are mentioned there.
 No Piet ? http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/piet/samples.html
)


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Debian Programming languages

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting ghe (2019-05-24 18:14:42)
> On 5/24/19 9:08 AM, Paul Sutton wrote:
> 
> > As I am trying to promote contributing to Debian,  what programming
> > languages are mostly used?  
> 
> C, perl, java, ruby, python, bash, that I know of. And probably several
> others. I don't recall seeing any COBOL, though :-)
> 
> > I am asking as it helps to give people an
> > idea of what they need to learn or will learn as part of helping.
> 
> The *nix kernels, and most of the command programs, are written in C, so
> C's a must. Java and python look like a kinda fixed up, OOP C, so
> they're not too hard to deal with once you know C.
> 
> I don't know what ruby is like, but I see a lot of it in the mirrors and
> stuff.
> 
> Perl is happily off on it's own. "There's more than one way..." Boy is
> there ever. Nice to write, but it's next to impossible to understand
> other people's code. Python, IMHO, seems to be creeping up to replace it.

That's plain wrong: Debian has perl at its core, and Python not.

Also, your simplification of Perl is common among folks ignorant about 
Perl but is wrong as well: You _can_ write difficult-to-read code in 
Perl by by no means do you need to, and most Perl code in Debian - i.e. 
the thousands of CPAN modules, does not use a difficult-to-read coding 
style.

You don't need to learn _any_ specific language in order to help out 
with Debian: https://www.debian.org/intro/help


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private


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Re: Debian Programming languages

[Paul Sutton]

On 24/05/2019 17:51, john doe wrote:
> On 5/24/2019 6:14 PM, ghe wrote:
>> On 5/24/19 9:08 AM, Paul Sutton wrote:
>>
>>> As I am trying to promote contributing to Debian,  what programming
>>> languages are mostly used?
>> C, perl, java, ruby, python, bash, that I know of. And probably several
>> others. I don't recall seeing any COBOL, though :-)
>>
>>> I am asking as it helps to give people an
>>> idea of what they need to learn or will learn as part of helping.
>> The *nix kernels, and most of the command programs, are written in C, so
>> C's a must. Java and python look like a kinda fixed up, OOP C, so
>> they're not too hard to deal with once you know C.
>>
>> I don't know what ruby is like, but I see a lot of it in the mirrors and
>> stuff.
>>
>> Perl is happily off on it's own. "There's more than one way..." Boy is
>> there ever. Nice to write, but it's next to impossible to understand
>> other people's code. Python, IMHO, seems to be creeping up to replace it.
>>
>> Bash reminds one of the syntax of the 1950s. The pits, but necessary.
>> And it's often the best way to make something happen right now.
>>
> '/bin/sh' on Debian is Dash.
>
> So I would say, general shell scripting ability and POSIX compliance
> (Dash/Posh).
>
> Avoiding Bashism if Bash is to be used.
>
> --
> John Doe
>

Thank you for this, very helpful and useful information, I (well others
too) hopefully have something to go on when trying to tell people about
contributing to Debian. 

Granted not everyone (including me) is at developer level or may want to
get that far.

Question now is how to turn all this in to something that will hopefully
attract people to help with Debian or other free software projects that
are related.

Thanks again


Paul


Paul


-- 
Paul Sutton
http://www.zleap.net
https://www.linkedin.com/in/zleap/
gnupg : 7D6D B682 F351 8D08 1893  1E16 F086 5537 D066 302D

Re: Debian Programming languages

[mick crane]

On 2019-05-24 17:14, ghe wrote:

On 5/24/19 9:08 AM, Paul Sutton wrote:


As I am trying to promote contributing to Debian,  what programming
languages are mostly used?


C, perl, java, ruby, python, bash, that I know of. And probably several
others. I don't recall seeing any COBOL, though :-)



Perl is happily off on it's own.


What goes on with Perl ?
There is Perl6 but development is stalled ?

mick


--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Re: Debian Programming languages

[john doe]

On 5/24/2019 6:14 PM, ghe wrote:
> On 5/24/19 9:08 AM, Paul Sutton wrote:
>
>> As I am trying to promote contributing to Debian,  what programming
>> languages are mostly used?
>
> C, perl, java, ruby, python, bash, that I know of. And probably several
> others. I don't recall seeing any COBOL, though :-)
>
>> I am asking as it helps to give people an
>> idea of what they need to learn or will learn as part of helping.
>
> The *nix kernels, and most of the command programs, are written in C, so
> C's a must. Java and python look like a kinda fixed up, OOP C, so
> they're not too hard to deal with once you know C.
>
> I don't know what ruby is like, but I see a lot of it in the mirrors and
> stuff.
>
> Perl is happily off on it's own. "There's more than one way..." Boy is
> there ever. Nice to write, but it's next to impossible to understand
> other people's code. Python, IMHO, seems to be creeping up to replace it.
>
> Bash reminds one of the syntax of the 1950s. The pits, but necessary.
> And it's often the best way to make something happen right now.
>

'/bin/sh' on Debian is Dash.

So I would say, general shell scripting ability and POSIX compliance
(Dash/Posh).

Avoiding Bashism if Bash is to be used.

--
John Doe

Re: Debian Programming languages

[ghe]

On 5/24/19 9:08 AM, Paul Sutton wrote:

> As I am trying to promote contributing to Debian,  what programming
> languages are mostly used?  

C, perl, java, ruby, python, bash, that I know of. And probably several
others. I don't recall seeing any COBOL, though :-)

> I am asking as it helps to give people an
> idea of what they need to learn or will learn as part of helping.

The *nix kernels, and most of the command programs, are written in C, so
C's a must. Java and python look like a kinda fixed up, OOP C, so
they're not too hard to deal with once you know C.

I don't know what ruby is like, but I see a lot of it in the mirrors and
stuff.

Perl is happily off on it's own. "There's more than one way..." Boy is
there ever. Nice to write, but it's next to impossible to understand
other people's code. Python, IMHO, seems to be creeping up to replace it.

Bash reminds one of the syntax of the 1950s. The pits, but necessary.
And it's often the best way to make something happen right now.

Python rules, this week (it's written in C too).

They all do things differently. Knowing several of them (and investing
in a pile of O'Reilly books) is a big help.

-- 
Glenn English

Re: Debian Programming languages

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting Paul Sutton (2019-05-24 17:08:44)
> As I am trying to promote contributing to Debian, what programming 
> languages are mostly used?  I am asking as it helps to give people an 
> idea of what they need to learn or will learn as part of helping.
> 
> I am guessing as the default command line interface is bash, then bash 
> and bash scripting would be useful to learn but on top of that what 
> would people suggest I try and promote.
> 
> Not just on the coding side of things as we have markdown / html / css 
> perhaps LaTeX for documentation.

Debian excells in not being a monoculture.  Therefore I think it is 
doing Debian a disservice to try emphasize which has "majority" use.

 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

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Debian Programming languages

[Paul Sutton]

Hi

As I am trying to promote contributing to Debian,  what programming
languages are mostly used?  I am asking as it helps to give people an
idea of what they need to learn or will learn as part of helping.

I am guessing as the default command line interface is bash, then bash
and bash scripting would be useful to learn but on top of that what
would people suggest I try and promote.

Not just on the coding side of things as we have markdown / html / css
perhaps LaTeX for documentation.


Thanks

Paul

-- 
Paul Sutton
http://www.zleap.net
https://www.linkedin.com/in/zleap/
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