Re: Debian policy, major change ?
On Thu, Aug 21, 2003 at 09:49:02PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: On Thu, Aug 21, 2003 at 02:00:37PM +0100, Colin Watson wrote: They do (IRC, anyway), but it's just not as effective. Face-to-face communication and the ability to look over at somebody's screen in real time and say oh, *that's* what's wrong are underrated sometimes. Well, doesn't KDE automate the process of dealing with VNC for desktop sharing? Trust me, still sucks compared to sitting next to co-developers. (What's so difficult about this concept?) Also, not all the d-i developers use VMware or whatever, it being non-free and all, and the free alternatives being too slow for some people. If you're suggesting that this release might have boot-floppies still, no, I'm pretty sure that's not going to happen. I wish I could share your optimism. This ain't optimism. It's a statement that continuing to maintain boot-floppies is impractical from a release perspective, so we *have* to have debian-installer. I can't even get far enough to file a decent bug report using VMWare. Can't you file a bug report about where you got stuck? -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian policy, major change ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 11:31:25AM +0100, Colin Watson wrote: Can't you file a bug report about where you got stuck? The thing is, I'm not entirely sure what's going on to be able to properly describe it. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] : :' :proud Debian admin and user `. `'` `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/RfzLsClmdIs2Ki8RAhbxAJ9fDkRNd685mHSpvNWDFpWrq7e+NACeKGjA P2dbSUnibjG9B512i+LMPk4= =5JWu -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian policy, major change ?
%% Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: pj On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 11:31:25AM +0100, Colin Watson wrote: Can't you file a bug report about where you got stuck? pj The thing is, I'm not entirely sure what's going on to be able to pj properly describe it. Is there a howto or other step-by-step instructions on testing the installer using VMWare? Can you get VMWare to boot from an ISO image on the disk (virtual CD) or do you need to actually burn a CD? I'm a far cry from a VMWare expert but I'd be willing to give it a run if I had a little direction. -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian policy, major change ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 10:37:02AM -0400, Paul Smith wrote: Is there a howto or other step-by-step instructions on testing the installer using VMWare? Can you get VMWare to boot from an ISO image on the disk (virtual CD) or do you need to actually burn a CD? I'm a far cry from a VMWare expert but I'd be willing to give it a run if I had a little direction. Either way, it hangs in boot. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] : :' :proud Debian admin and user `. `'` `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/RjlpsClmdIs2Ki8RAvy0AJwL8xLXatOBWbVuisx7Sm3GqqNZ6wCfcxDz +o6keZdzLIgKIbHbS7+YKk4= =7nIb -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian policy, major change ?
%% Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: pj Either way, it hangs in boot. Just a thought, but are you using the latest VMWare? I'm pretty sure you need VMWare 4, which was just released in April, to use newer Linux kernels: 2.4.18 etc. won't work with VMWare 3 IIRC. -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian policy, major change ?
%% Smith, Paul [BL60:SB10:EXCH][EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: %% Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: pj Either way, it hangs in boot. sp Just a thought, but are you using the latest VMWare? I'm pretty sure sp you need VMWare 4, which was just released in April, to use newer Linux sp kernels: 2.4.18 etc. won't work with VMWare 3 IIRC. FYI, I just tried this and it booted fine in my VMWare Workstation 4.0.0 build 4460. The redisplay is somewhat slow but it does work. Except choosing the keyboard croaked so I had to skip that step, but it boots anyway. I don't have time to do much else (I need to futz with the network to get it working in VMWare). -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian policy, major change ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 12:37:09PM -0400, Paul Smith wrote: Just a thought, but are you using the latest VMWare? I'm pretty sure you need VMWare 4, which was just released in April, to use newer Linux kernels: 2.4.18 etc. won't work with VMWare 3 IIRC. That is what I'm using. I'll take another crack at it when I'm slightly less homeless. If there are Debian folk here looking for a roommate to split an apartment in Portland, preferably near E Burnside and 122nd Ave, email me! - -- .''`. Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] : :' :proud Debian admin and user `. `'` `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/RtL5sClmdIs2Ki8RAiwlAJ9j6E5h63pujwwhMFXMHOlRtBxRrQCcCbSD IovVqw/BpUo93WQmv0nykUk= =HnmY -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian policy, major change ?
On Wed, Aug 20, 2003 at 10:09:01PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: On Tue, Aug 19, 2003 at 04:51:42PM +0200, Stephane wrote: Next debian stable to be released on 1st december: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2003/debian-devel-announce-200308/msg00010.html I would love to hear some comments :) I'm not following debian-devel, though I think it can be pulled off. Testing's pretty much there already. testing has quite some way to go yet in my opinion (the rest of GNOME 2, KDE 3, plus a couple of other very complex group transitions), but I think it's feasible, yeah. The big question hanging over this release has always been debian-installer, and the consensus among those who know seems to be that it's approaching readiness. If the results of September's hackathon are anything like those of the d-i sessions at debcamp, that should clear up most of the remaining issues. -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian policy, major change ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, Aug 21, 2003 at 10:41:48AM +0100, Colin Watson wrote: If the results of September's hackathon are anything like those of the d-i sessions at debcamp, that should clear up most of the remaining issues. Well, people could coordinate via IRC or IM and hack at it. But it's been so long since the last release, I think everybody's about ready to say fuck it, one more release, then we should have it. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] : :' :proud Debian admin and user `. `'` `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/RKLdsClmdIs2Ki8RAjb4AJ4qOBYA78VtXI1818iV1xLQQArUYACfRPuc ORAwWhn5kpKYfU71aJyOuiw= =3+VG -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian policy, major change ?
On Wed, Aug 20, 2003 at 10:09:01PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: On Tue, Aug 19, 2003 at 04:51:42PM +0200, Stephane wrote: Next debian stable to be released on 1st december: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2003/debian-devel-announce-200308/msg00010.html I would love to hear some comments :) If the question is, what do people think of having a projected release date, I for one quite like it. Gives me something to look forward. A couple of technical questions about the release: - first of all, is it possible to get one's hands on debian-installer -- and does it largely work at this point? I'd love to try it out. - and second: has a decision been made regarding the version of gcc that sarge will be compiled with? Is this question related to the delays in getting gnome2.2 and kde 3.1 in sarge (referred to earlier by Colin, whose mail I accidentally deleted)? best, matt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian policy, major change ?
On Thu, Aug 21, 2003 at 03:45:49AM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: On Thu, Aug 21, 2003 at 10:41:48AM +0100, Colin Watson wrote: If the results of September's hackathon are anything like those of the d-i sessions at debcamp, that should clear up most of the remaining issues. Well, people could coordinate via IRC or IM and hack at it. They do (IRC, anyway), but it's just not as effective. Face-to-face communication and the ability to look over at somebody's screen in real time and say oh, *that's* what's wrong are underrated sometimes. But it's been so long since the last release, I think everybody's about ready to say fuck it, one more release, then we should have it. If you're suggesting that this release might have boot-floppies still, no, I'm pretty sure that's not going to happen. Cheers, -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian policy, major change ?
On Thu, Aug 21, 2003 at 12:56:15PM -0400, Matt Price wrote: On Wed, Aug 20, 2003 at 10:09:01PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: On Tue, Aug 19, 2003 at 04:51:42PM +0200, Stephane wrote: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2003/debian-devel-announce-200308/msg00010.html If the question is, what do people think of having a projected release date, I for one quite like it. Gives me something to look forward. A couple of technical questions about the release: - first of all, is it possible to get one's hands on debian-installer I think the URL above describes that. -- and does it largely work at this point? I'd love to try it out. In Anthony's release plan under August 19th (now), he says: Beta testing of debian-installer by adventurous users (subscribe to debian-boot, and try CVS or the images at http://people.debian.org/~tfheen/d-i/images/daily/) So, if you're adventurous, go for it. - and second: has a decision been made regarding the version of gcc that sarge will be compiled with? Whatever version is in sarge, which is 3.3 at the moment. However, this of course all depends on what happened to be on maintainers' machines and build daemons when the most recent version of each package was built. Is this question related to the delays in getting gnome2.2 and kde 3.1 in sarge (referred to earlier by Colin, whose mail I accidentally deleted)? Not really, no. That's more a question of complicated library transitions at the moment: for example, pilot-link's library has changed its package name, and both GNOME and KDE use it, so core bits of both GNOME and KDE will have to be ready for testing at the same time in order for either to be upgraded. Quite a lot of attention is being paid to this sort of thing at the moment, though. (Also, glibc 2.3.2 is currently holding up more or less everything, and fixing it is a very high priority.) Cheers, -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian policy, major change ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, Aug 21, 2003 at 02:00:37PM +0100, Colin Watson wrote: They do (IRC, anyway), but it's just not as effective. Face-to-face communication and the ability to look over at somebody's screen in real time and say oh, *that's* what's wrong are underrated sometimes. Well, doesn't KDE automate the process of dealing with VNC for desktop sharing? If you're suggesting that this release might have boot-floppies still, no, I'm pretty sure that's not going to happen. I wish I could share your optimism. I can't even get far enough to file a decent bug report using VMWare. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] : :' :proud Debian admin and user `. `'` `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/RaC9sClmdIs2Ki8RAo8uAJ98rOdfNqOcZA3wvQu9f2B57MDY+wCfakN3 z/uoxAJ63lAK3Tzjfy7Y1fI= =xf7p -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian policy, major change ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Aug 19, 2003 at 04:51:42PM +0200, Stephane wrote: Next debian stable to be released on 1st december: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2003/debian-devel-announce-200308/msg00010.html I would love to hear some comments :) I'm not following debian-devel, though I think it can be pulled off. Testing's pretty much there already. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] : :' :proud Debian admin and user `. `'` `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/RFPtsClmdIs2Ki8RAm53AJ9IiY7aAK8b/G0ZStOTfeeI5mKIAACeLaOd q1Cl7SV42m8pggob6eMeqsI= =bLxX -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Debian policy, major change ?
Next debian stable to be released on 1st december: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2003/debian-devel-announce-200308/msg00010.html I would love to hear some comments :) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian policy, major change ?
On Tue, Aug 19, 2003 at 04:51:42PM +0200, Stephane wrote: | Next debian stable to be released on 1st december: | | http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2003/debian-devel-announce-200308/msg00010.html | | I would love to hear some comments :) Here's the comments: It's about time. (rather, it's way past time!) Thanks, AJ, for spearheading this! (Also, thanks, Colin, for your efforts in supporting AJ and making the release possible :-)) -D -- 640K ought to be enough for anybody -Bill Gates, 1981 http://dman13.dyndns.org/~dman/ pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Debian policy, major change ?
On Tue, Aug 19, 2003 at 04:51:42PM +0200, Stephane wrote: Next debian stable to be released on 1st december: I would love to hear some comments :) Coool. -- Carl Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabootu's Minister of Proofreading http://www.jabootu.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
