Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Brian]

On Wed 23 Mar 2016 at 20:31:31 +, Brian wrote:

>   pdl=application/octet-stream,image/urf"
> 
> PDFs will not print. I own up to spreading misinformation if I implied
> they would.

I stated that an iOS device sends PDFs and then went on to deduce that the
printer performs some conversion to something the printer can print. As
you said

  > So you appear to be saying that what passes through the AirPrint
  > wire or wifi link is a PDF. The printer then converts it to BUL,
  > then raster.

You were right to prod me because the statement about PDFs definitely
being passed from device to printer in all circumstances is incorrect.
The deduction is also false.

Suppose the printer advertises

  pdl=application/vnd.hp-PCL,application/pdf.image/jpeg,image/urf

as mime types it accepts. In that case the printer is a PDF printer and
it will print a PDF directly sent to it. image/urf is an obligatory mime
type for AirPrint. So what does an iOS application send? My guess is
that the application knows it can send application/pdf or image/urf and
sends application/pdf because it is first in the list. The PDF is
rasterised on the printer.

If

  pdl=application/vnd.hp-PCL,image/jpeg,image/urf

there is only the choice of image/urf. urf is a raster format which will
be rasterised to the printer's language on the printer.

Having stressed the importance of Bonjour broadcasts a few times I went
on (in pursuit of solving a problem) to ignore the role they play on the
client side.

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Brian]

On Wed 16 Mar 2016 at 16:14:47 +, Brian wrote:

> On Wed 16 Mar 2016 at 12:06:40 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> 
> > On Wednesday 16 March 2016 10:12:59 Brian wrote:
> > 
> > > Now find a *small* PDF file and send it directly to the printer with
> > > netcat:
> > >
> > >   nc 192.168.71.20 9100 < file.pdf
> > >
> > > or
> > >
> > >   nc BRN001BA9E3811F.local < file.pdf
> > >
> > > Does it print?
> > 
> > Doesn't look like it:
> > 
> > gene@coyote:~/Downloads$ nc BRN001BA9E3811F.local <7i77_layout.pdf 
> > no port[s] to connect to
> > gene@coyote:~/Downloads$ nc 192.168.71.20 < 7i77_layout.pdf 
> > no port[s] to connect to
> 
> Haven't you omitted the port to connect to? Just like I did for one of
> the lines above. :(. Apologies.
> 
>   nc 192.168.71.20 9100 < 7i77_layout.pdf
>

It is a pity this correction to a simple command was not made and the
outcome described. The txt record for the printer has

  pdl=application/octet-stream,image/urf"

PDFs will not print. I own up to spreading misinformation if I implied
they would.

I now have the use of an HP AirPrint enabled printer (a 4200 series
printer). The MIME types which are supported by this printer are

  pdl=application/vnd.hp-PCL,image/jpeg,application/PCLm,image/urf

The only thing the printers have in common is image/urf.

I have changed my mind about the AirPrint capabilty on his printer being
a route to avoid using a proprietary driver. If Jarle Aase is printing
now it is through the agency of the Brother .deb packages.  

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Brian]

On Mon 21 Mar 2016 at 07:28:07 +0300, Adam Wilson wrote:

> You wrote "contraining". I was asking whether you meant "constraining",
> or whether "contraining" was some specialised technical vocabulary used
> to describe an implied inverse correlation between two historical
> trends.
> 
> "Constraining" it is.

Each time I looked at the word I saw an 's' in it; amazing what the
brain tells you! :) Thanks.

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Adam Wilson]

On Sun, 20 Mar 2016 14:26:25 +
Brian  wrote:

> On Sun 20 Mar 2016 at 17:08:11 +0300, Adam Wilson wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, 20 Mar 2016 12:19:55 +
> > Brian  wrote:
> >   
> > > On Sun 20 Mar 2016 at 12:08:02 +0300, Adam Wilson wrote:
> > >   
> > > > On Fri, 18 Mar 2016 14:20:03 -0500
> > > > David Wright  wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > On Fri 18 Mar 2016 at 13:03:52 (+), Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > > > > > On Friday 18 March 2016 12:55:26 Jarle Aase wrote:  
> > > > > > > Den 11. mars 2016 19:36, skrev Lisi Reisz:  
> > > > > > > > I have been reading this thread a bit at a time.  I am
> > > > > > > > bemused.  Why, if you want life simple, and Free, etc.,
> > > > > > > > go for an AIO, which are notoriously troublesome?  Why
> > > > > > > > not go for a simple Brother laser printer? (If you want
> > > > > > > > Brother.)  
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Actually, I need scanning more frequently than I need
> > > > > > > printing. The scanner works perfectly without any
> > > > > > > proprietary software on my PC. I have still not printed
> > > > > > > anything.  
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > So have two separate objects?  That is what I do - because I
> > > > > > like a simple life.  
> > > > > 
> > > > > Scanning is pretty easy nowadays, I find. Years ago it was the
> > > > > other way.
> > > > 
> > > > So what made printing so much worse?
> > > > 
> > > > Saying that in the past, vice versa was the case, implies that
> > > > not only has scanning got easier, but also that printing has got
> > > > harder.
> > > 
> > > It hasn't got worse. There are very few complaints on this list
> > > about printing being problematic. Overall, the experience of most
> > > Linux users is a positive one. The contraining  
> > 
> > Constraining?  
> 
> An adjective.

You wrote "contraining". I was asking whether you meant "constraining",
or whether "contraining" was some specialised technical vocabulary used
to describe an implied inverse correlation between two historical
trends.

"Constraining" it is.


pgp1mt_qoqgYA.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[David Wright]

On Sun 20 Mar 2016 at 12:08:02 (+0300), Adam Wilson wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Mar 2016 14:20:03 -0500
> David Wright  wrote:
> 
> > On Fri 18 Mar 2016 at 13:03:52 (+), Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > > On Friday 18 March 2016 12:55:26 Jarle Aase wrote:  
> > > > Den 11. mars 2016 19:36, skrev Lisi Reisz:  
> > > > > I have been reading this thread a bit at a time.  I am
> > > > > bemused.  Why, if you want life simple, and Free, etc., go for
> > > > > an AIO, which are notoriously troublesome?  Why not go for a
> > > > > simple Brother laser printer? (If you want Brother.)  
> > > >
> > > > Actually, I need scanning more frequently than I need printing.
> > > > The scanner works perfectly without any proprietary software on
> > > > my PC. I have still not printed anything.  
> > > 
> > > So have two separate objects?  That is what I do - because I like a
> > > simple life.  
> > 
> > Scanning is pretty easy nowadays, I find. Years ago it was the other
> > way.
> 
> So what made printing so much worse?
> 
> Saying that in the past, vice versa was the case, implies that not only
> has scanning got easier, but also that printing has got harder.

I should have written "Personally,..."
It's back in the thread: when I had a real job, I was surrounded by
PDF printers of many flavours, and there were one or two scanners
which were tedious to use whatever platform you were on.
When I left, battle commenced on two fronts: buying (already
recounted) and using printers (too tedious to recount), so it got
much harder for a while.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Brian]

On Sun 20 Mar 2016 at 17:08:11 +0300, Adam Wilson wrote:

> On Sun, 20 Mar 2016 12:19:55 +
> Brian  wrote:
> 
> > On Sun 20 Mar 2016 at 12:08:02 +0300, Adam Wilson wrote:
> > 
> > > On Fri, 18 Mar 2016 14:20:03 -0500
> > > David Wright  wrote:
> > >   
> > > > On Fri 18 Mar 2016 at 13:03:52 (+), Lisi Reisz wrote:  
> > > > > On Friday 18 March 2016 12:55:26 Jarle Aase wrote:
> > > > > > Den 11. mars 2016 19:36, skrev Lisi Reisz:
> > > > > > > I have been reading this thread a bit at a time.  I am
> > > > > > > bemused.  Why, if you want life simple, and Free, etc., go
> > > > > > > for an AIO, which are notoriously troublesome?  Why not go
> > > > > > > for a simple Brother laser printer? (If you want
> > > > > > > Brother.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Actually, I need scanning more frequently than I need
> > > > > > printing. The scanner works perfectly without any proprietary
> > > > > > software on my PC. I have still not printed anything.
> > > > > 
> > > > > So have two separate objects?  That is what I do - because I
> > > > > like a simple life.
> > > > 
> > > > Scanning is pretty easy nowadays, I find. Years ago it was the
> > > > other way.  
> > > 
> > > So what made printing so much worse?
> > > 
> > > Saying that in the past, vice versa was the case, implies that not
> > > only has scanning got easier, but also that printing has got
> > > harder.  
> > 
> > It hasn't got worse. There are very few complaints on this list about
> > printing being problematic. Overall, the experience of most Linux
> > users is a positive one. The contraining
> 
> Constraining?

An adjective.

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Adam Wilson]

On Sun, 20 Mar 2016 12:19:55 +
Brian  wrote:

> On Sun 20 Mar 2016 at 12:08:02 +0300, Adam Wilson wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 18 Mar 2016 14:20:03 -0500
> > David Wright  wrote:
> >   
> > > On Fri 18 Mar 2016 at 13:03:52 (+), Lisi Reisz wrote:  
> > > > On Friday 18 March 2016 12:55:26 Jarle Aase wrote:
> > > > > Den 11. mars 2016 19:36, skrev Lisi Reisz:
> > > > > > I have been reading this thread a bit at a time.  I am
> > > > > > bemused.  Why, if you want life simple, and Free, etc., go
> > > > > > for an AIO, which are notoriously troublesome?  Why not go
> > > > > > for a simple Brother laser printer? (If you want
> > > > > > Brother.)
> > > > >
> > > > > Actually, I need scanning more frequently than I need
> > > > > printing. The scanner works perfectly without any proprietary
> > > > > software on my PC. I have still not printed anything.
> > > > 
> > > > So have two separate objects?  That is what I do - because I
> > > > like a simple life.
> > > 
> > > Scanning is pretty easy nowadays, I find. Years ago it was the
> > > other way.  
> > 
> > So what made printing so much worse?
> > 
> > Saying that in the past, vice versa was the case, implies that not
> > only has scanning got easier, but also that printing has got
> > harder.  
> 
> It hasn't got worse. There are very few complaints on this list about
> printing being problematic. Overall, the experience of most Linux
> users is a positive one. The contraining

Constraining?


pgpe0_0x2eQqE.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Brian]

On Sun 20 Mar 2016 at 12:08:02 +0300, Adam Wilson wrote:

> On Fri, 18 Mar 2016 14:20:03 -0500
> David Wright  wrote:
> 
> > On Fri 18 Mar 2016 at 13:03:52 (+), Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > > On Friday 18 March 2016 12:55:26 Jarle Aase wrote:  
> > > > Den 11. mars 2016 19:36, skrev Lisi Reisz:  
> > > > > I have been reading this thread a bit at a time.  I am
> > > > > bemused.  Why, if you want life simple, and Free, etc., go for
> > > > > an AIO, which are notoriously troublesome?  Why not go for a
> > > > > simple Brother laser printer? (If you want Brother.)  
> > > >
> > > > Actually, I need scanning more frequently than I need printing.
> > > > The scanner works perfectly without any proprietary software on
> > > > my PC. I have still not printed anything.  
> > > 
> > > So have two separate objects?  That is what I do - because I like a
> > > simple life.  
> > 
> > Scanning is pretty easy nowadays, I find. Years ago it was the other
> > way.
> 
> So what made printing so much worse?
> 
> Saying that in the past, vice versa was the case, implies that not only
> has scanning got easier, but also that printing has got harder.

It hasn't got worse. There are very few complaints on this list about
printing being problematic. Overall, the experience of most Linux users
is a positive one. The contraining condition imposed by the OP may make
printing look hard but it is a perception only.

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Adam Wilson]

On Fri, 18 Mar 2016 14:20:03 -0500
David Wright  wrote:

> On Fri 18 Mar 2016 at 13:03:52 (+), Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > On Friday 18 March 2016 12:55:26 Jarle Aase wrote:  
> > > Den 11. mars 2016 19:36, skrev Lisi Reisz:  
> > > > I have been reading this thread a bit at a time.  I am
> > > > bemused.  Why, if you want life simple, and Free, etc., go for
> > > > an AIO, which are notoriously troublesome?  Why not go for a
> > > > simple Brother laser printer? (If you want Brother.)  
> > >
> > > Actually, I need scanning more frequently than I need printing.
> > > The scanner works perfectly without any proprietary software on
> > > my PC. I have still not printed anything.  
> > 
> > So have two separate objects?  That is what I do - because I like a
> > simple life.  
> 
> Scanning is pretty easy nowadays, I find. Years ago it was the other
> way.

So what made printing so much worse?

Saying that in the past, vice versa was the case, implies that not only
has scanning got easier, but also that printing has got harder.


pgpiIrQeOKkP8.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Brian]

On Wed 16 Mar 2016 at 12:06:40 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Wednesday 16 March 2016 10:12:59 Brian wrote:
> 
> > Now find a *small* PDF file and send it directly to the printer with
> > netcat:
> >
> >   nc 192.168.71.20 9100 < file.pdf
> >
> > or
> >
> >   nc BRN001BA9E3811F.local < file.pdf
> >
> > Does it print?
> 
> Doesn't look like it:
> 
> gene@coyote:~/Downloads$ nc BRN001BA9E3811F.local <7i77_layout.pdf 
> no port[s] to connect to
> gene@coyote:~/Downloads$ nc 192.168.71.20 < 7i77_layout.pdf 
> no port[s] to connect to

Haven't you omitted the port to connect to? Just like I did for one of
the lines above. :(. Apologies.

  nc 192.168.71.20 9100 < 7i77_layout.pdf
   

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[jdd]

Le 18/03/2016 13:55, Jarle Aase a écrit :


Actually, I need scanning more frequently than I need printing. The
scanner works perfectly without any proprietary software on my PC. I
have still not printed anything.



scanner are for free nowaday (second hand), I even have an unused one :-)

jdd

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Jarle Aase]

Den 11. mars 2016 19:36, skrev Lisi Reisz:

I have been reading this thread a bit at a time.  I am bemused.  Why, if you
want life simple, and Free, etc., go for an AIO, which are notoriously
troublesome?  Why not go for a simple Brother laser printer?  (If you want
Brother.)

Actually, I need scanning more frequently than I need printing. The 
scanner works perfectly without any proprietary software on my PC. I 
have still not printed anything.


Jarle

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Adam Wilson]

On Tue, 15 Mar 2016 16:10:49 +0100 jdd  wrote:

> Le 15/03/2016 16:01, David Wright a écrit :
> 
> > You write "Is Airprint free?". Is this a real question or a pointed
> > remark designed to create more discussion? I can't tell. Why don't
> > you just look it up?
> >
> > You write "not from me, but from others, may be." Perhaps you
> > might google the following phrase. That's what I think.
> 
> I got the impression than you don't want to use the brother driver 
> because it's not free. If it's not that, I'm sorry.
> 
> if It's that, I think that a driver is just an extension of the 
> hardware, so why use a non free hardware an don't use the same non
> free driver.

This sort of breaks down when you realise that drivers are actually
software to be used with hardware. They are only 'extensions of
hardware' in the sense that hardware requires drivers to work, and so
certain drivers must be used with certain hardware.

There is no such thing as 'non-free hardware'- just hardware for which
there are no free drivers available. That situation can be remedied by
the development or release of free drivers and firmware.

> We all work constantly with non free solutions, including RMS,
> whatever he says... the more the better, but where to stop?

Indeed. Until recently Stallman himself used a computer with non-free
BIOS, until his fling with MIPS and now LibreBoot.

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Brian]

On Tue 15 Mar 2016 at 23:18:30 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:

> Gluttons for punishment eh?  Remember, you did ask for it :(  And nothu
> ing has been excised.

Uncut outputs are always the best. Thank you very much.

[Useful avahi-browse record snipped to save bandwidth]

> Now, I note 3 instances of "airprint.html" up there that because it 
> didn't mean squat to me until now, I didn't recognize or know I needed 
> to remember.

http://BRN001BA9E3811F.local./net/net/airprint.html is the location of
the printer's embedded web interface. Without avahi-daemon I expect you
would use http://192.168.71.20:80.

We'll work with the PDL printer:

  =   eth0 IPv4 Brother HL-3170CDW series  PDL Printer  local
 hostname = [BRN001BA9E3811F.local]
 address = [192.168.71.20]
 port = [9100]
 txt = ["UUID=e3248000-80ce-11db-8000-001ba9e3811f"
   "TBCP=T"
   "Transparent=F"
   "Binary=T"
   "PaperCustom=T"
   "Scan=F"
   "Duplex=T"
   "Copies=T"
   "Color=T"
   "usb_CMD=PJL,PCL,PCLXL,URF"
   "usb_MDL=HL-3170CDW series"
   "usb_MFG=Brother"
   "priority=75"
   "adminurl=http://BRN001BA9E3811F.local./net/net/airprint.html;
   "product=(Brother HL-3170CDW series)"
   "ty=Brother HL-3170CDW series"
   "note="
   "pdl=application/octet-stream,image/urf"
   "qtotal=1"
   "txtvers=1"]

Now find a *small* PDF file and send it directly to the printer with
netcat:

  nc 192.168.71.20 9100 < file.pdf

or

  nc BRN001BA9E3811F.local < file.pdf

Does it print?

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Jarle Aase]

Den 10. mars 2016 21:01, skrev Brian:
Did you go through all this to set up scanning on the device? Of 
course you didn't. So why not do the same with printing and not make a 
song and a dance about it. 
Scanning was simple, as the device use standard protocols. Currently I 
scan to a FTP server on my PC. I trust the FTP server because I wrote it :)


Jarle

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 16 March 2016 10:12:59 Brian wrote:

> On Tue 15 Mar 2016 at 23:18:30 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Gluttons for punishment eh?  Remember, you did ask for it :(  And
> > nothu ing has been excised.
>
> Uncut outputs are always the best. Thank you very much.
>
> [Useful avahi-browse record snipped to save bandwidth]
>
> > Now, I note 3 instances of "airprint.html" up there that because it
> > didn't mean squat to me until now, I didn't recognize or know I
> > needed to remember.
>
> http://BRN001BA9E3811F.local./net/net/airprint.html is the location of
> the printer's embedded web interface. Without avahi-daemon I expect
> you would use http://192.168.71.20:80.
>
> We'll work with the PDL printer:
>
>   =   eth0 IPv4 Brother HL-3170CDW series  PDL Printer  local
>  hostname = [BRN001BA9E3811F.local]
>  address = [192.168.71.20]
>  port = [9100]
>  txt = ["UUID=e3248000-80ce-11db-8000-001ba9e3811f"
>"TBCP=T"
>"Transparent=F"
>"Binary=T"
>"PaperCustom=T"
>"Scan=F"
>"Duplex=T"
>"Copies=T"
>"Color=T"
>"usb_CMD=PJL,PCL,PCLXL,URF"
>"usb_MDL=HL-3170CDW series"
>"usb_MFG=Brother"
>"priority=75"
>   
> "adminurl=http://BRN001BA9E3811F.local./net/net/airprint.html;
> "product=(Brother HL-3170CDW series)"
>"ty=Brother HL-3170CDW series"
>"note="
>"pdl=application/octet-stream,image/urf"
>"qtotal=1"
>"txtvers=1"]
>
> Now find a *small* PDF file and send it directly to the printer with
> netcat:
>
>   nc 192.168.71.20 9100 < file.pdf
>
> or
>
>   nc BRN001BA9E3811F.local < file.pdf
>
> Does it print?

Doesn't look like it:

gene@coyote:~/Downloads$ nc BRN001BA9E3811F.local <7i77_layout.pdf 
no port[s] to connect to
gene@coyote:~/Downloads$ nc 192.168.71.20 < 7i77_layout.pdf 
no port[s] to connect to


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[David Wright]

On Fri 18 Mar 2016 at 13:03:52 (+), Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Friday 18 March 2016 12:55:26 Jarle Aase wrote:
> > Den 11. mars 2016 19:36, skrev Lisi Reisz:
> > > I have been reading this thread a bit at a time.  I am bemused.  Why, if
> > > you want life simple, and Free, etc., go for an AIO, which are
> > > notoriously troublesome?  Why not go for a simple Brother laser printer? 
> > > (If you want Brother.)
> >
> > Actually, I need scanning more frequently than I need printing. The
> > scanner works perfectly without any proprietary software on my PC. I
> > have still not printed anything.
> 
> So have two separate objects?  That is what I do - because I like a simple 
> life.

Scanning is pretty easy nowadays, I find. Years ago it was the other
way. With PDF printers, printing was straightforward. Scanning meant
putting the paper on the machine, pressing the button, then clicking
some buttons on the attached computer to accept the file, repeating
all that over and over, then converting the files from some
proprietary rubbish into something I could actually use. When it
worked. (Scanners were very unreliable, frequently broken, often in
use by someone else.)

Now, most scanners can scan to a stick in various formats. Though I
*can* drive the scanner from a computer, what's the point. Somebody's
got to feed the machine, even if it's only loading the ADF.
I have found it possible to get scans off the stick from the computer
(without taking it out of the scanner), but I don't usually bother.

Fortunately this scanner works even when the ink has run out, unlike
the k0d*k abomination we once had.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Curt]

On 2016-03-18, jdd  wrote:
> Le 18/03/2016 13:55, Jarle Aase a écrit :
>
>> Actually, I need scanning more frequently than I need printing. The
>> scanner works perfectly without any proprietary software on my PC. I
>> have still not printed anything.
>>
>
> scanner are for free nowaday (second hand), I even have an unused one :-)

I bought my acer 640U Scanaprisa for one euro (or maybe five, memory fails
me) at the annual *brocante*.

I did find it unusual that the OP got scanning to work in his
multifunction doohickey and not printing because I've much more
frequently seen the opposite being the case.

> jdd
>
>


-- 
Hypertext--or should I say the ideology of hypertext?--is ultrademocratic and
so entirely in harmony with the demagogic appeals to cultural democracy that
accompany (and distract one’s attention from) the ever-tightening grip of 
plutocratic capitalism. - Susan Sontag

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 18 March 2016 12:55:26 Jarle Aase wrote:
> Den 11. mars 2016 19:36, skrev Lisi Reisz:
> > I have been reading this thread a bit at a time.  I am bemused.  Why, if
> > you want life simple, and Free, etc., go for an AIO, which are
> > notoriously troublesome?  Why not go for a simple Brother laser printer? 
> > (If you want Brother.)
>
> Actually, I need scanning more frequently than I need printing. The
> scanner works perfectly without any proprietary software on my PC. I
> have still not printed anything.

So have two separate objects?  That is what I do - because I like a simple 
life.

Lisi

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Brian]

On Fri 18 Mar 2016 at 14:41:04 +0200, Jarle Aase wrote:

> Den 10. mars 2016 21:01, skrev Brian:
> >Did you go through all this to set up scanning on the device? Of course
> >you didn't. So why not do the same with printing and not make a song and a
> >dance about it.
> Scanning was simple, as the device use standard protocols. Currently I scan
> to a FTP server on my PC. I trust the FTP server because I wrote it :)

Thank you for that response. It helps to clarify the situation.

Have you considered acting on the advice in points 3. and 4. of

  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/03/msg00401.html

Unless someone comes up with another technique to avoid using a
proprietary driver it seems to me the only way for you print with
that printer.

(You can forget about points 1. and 2.).

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 15 March 2016 20:20:25 Lisi Reisz wrote:

> On Tuesday 15 March 2016 22:48:33 Brian wrote:
> > On Tue 15 Mar 2016 at 21:16:14 +, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > > On Tuesday 15 March 2016 19:40:07 Brian wrote:
> > > > Gene Haskett has an HL-3170CDW, which he now knows does
> > > > AirPrint. I believe he is someone who is up for a challenge.
> > > > Compared with flooded basements, lightning strikes, falling
> > > > trees and power cuts this is small beer. If he is amenable he
> > > > could
> > > >
> > > > 1. Install avahi-daemon and avahi-utils.
> > > >
> > > > 2. Do
> > > >
> > > > +   eth0 IPv4 Brother HL-3170CDW series 
PDL Printer  local


> > > >
> > > > and post the file "discovered" here. Then we might progress.
> > > >
> > > > Your printer cannot deal with files sent directly from an iOS
> > > > device. Through the mediation of Debian CUPS it can.
> > >
> > > But in order to do it, he would have to install Jessie, would he
> > > not? And I don't think he has a spare computer on which to do so.
> > > :-(
> >
> > To use avahi-daemon to pick up Bonjour broadcasts? No.
> >
> > If I am wrong it takes five minutes on Wheezy to find out.
>
> Over to you, Gene?? :-)
>
> Lisi

Gluttons for punishment eh?  Remember, you did ask for it :(  And nothu
ing has been excised.

+   eth0 IPv4 Brother HL-3170CDW series PDL Printer 
 
local
+   eth0 IPv4 Brother HL-3170CDW series UNIX Printer
 
local
+   eth0 IPv4 Brother HL-3170CDW series Internet 
Printer local
+   eth0 IPv4 Brother HL-3170CDW series Web Site
 
local
=   eth0 IPv4 Brother HL-3170CDW series PDL Printer 
 
local
   hostname = [BRN001BA9E3811F.local]
   address = [192.168.71.20]
   port = [9100]
   txt = 
["UUID=e3248000-80ce-11db-8000-001ba9e3811f" "TBCP=T" "Transparent=F" 
"Binary=T" "PaperCustom=T" "Scan=F" "Duplex=T" "Copies=T" "Color=T" 
"usb_CMD=PJL,PCL,PCLXL,URF" "usb_MDL=HL-3170CDW 
series" "usb_MFG=Brother" "priority=75" 
"adminurl=http://BRN001BA9E3811F.local./net/net/airprint.html; 
"product=(Brother 
HL-3170CDW series)" "ty=Brother HL-3170CDW 
series" "note=" "pdl=application/octet-stream,image/urf" "qtotal=1" "txtvers=1"]
=   eth0 IPv4 Brother HL-3170CDW series UNIX Printer
 
local
   hostname = [BRN001BA9E3811F.local]
   address = [192.168.71.20]
   port = [515]
   txt = 
["UUID=e3248000-80ce-11db-8000-001ba9e3811f" "TBCP=F" "Transparent=T" 
"Binary=T" "PaperCustom=T" "Scan=F" "Duplex=T" "Copies=T" "Color=T" 
"usb_CMD=PJL,PCL,PCLXL,URF" "usb_MDL=HL-3170CDW 
series" "usb_MFG=Brother" "priority=50" 
"adminurl=http://BRN001BA9E3811F.local./net/net/airprint.html; 
"product=(Brother 
HL-3170CDW series)" "ty=Brother HL-3170CDW 
series" "note=" "rp=duerqxesz5090" "pdl=application/octet-stream,image/urf" 
"qtotal=1" "txtvers=1"]
+   eth0 IPv6 BROTHER HL-2140 @ coyote  Internet 
Printer local
+   eth0 IPv6 coyoteRemote Disk 
Management local
+   eth0 IPv6 coyote_nut._tcp   
 
local
+   eth0 IPv6 coyote [00:1f:c6:62:fc:bb]Workstation 
 
local
+   eth0 IPv6 Network_printer @ coyote  Internet 
Printer local
+   eth0 IPv6 HL3170CDW @ coyoteInternet 
Printer local
+   eth0 IPv6 Cups-PDF @ coyote Internet 
Printer local
+   eth0 IPv6 EPSON Epson Stylus NX510 @ coyote Internet 
Printer local
+   eth0 IPv4 BROTHER HL-2140 @ coyote  Internet 
Printer local
+   eth0 IPv4 coyoteRemote Disk 
Management local
+   eth0 IPv4 coyote_nut._tcp   
 
local
+   eth0 IPv4 coyote [00:1f:c6:62:fc:bb]Workstation 
 
local
+   eth0 IPv4 Network_printer @ coyote  Internet 
Printer local
+   eth0 IPv4 Cups-PDF @ coyote Internet 
Printer local
+   eth0 IPv4 HL3170CDW @ coyoteInternet 
Printer local
+   eth0 IPv4 EPSON Epson Stylus NX510 @ coyote Internet 
Printer local
=   eth0 IPv6 BROTHER HL-2140 @ coyote  Internet 
Printer local
   hostname = [coyote.local]
   address = [fe80::21f:c6ff:fe62:fcbb]
   port = [631]
   txt = 
["printer-type=0x80B016" "printer-state=3" "Scan=F" "Sort=F" "Bind=F" "Punch=F" 
"Collate=F" "Copies=F" "Staple=F" "Duplex=T" "Color=F" "Fax=F" "Binary=F" 
"Transparent=F" "TLS=1.2" "UUID=78436bff-0096-3f61-74ca-4f910e8f38d9" "URF=DM3" 
"pdl=application/octet-stream,application/pdf,application/postscript,image/jpeg,image/png,image/urf"
 "product=(HL-2140 
series)" "priority=0" "note=coyote.coyote.den" 

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Lisi Reisz]

On Tuesday 15 March 2016 22:48:33 Brian wrote:
> On Tue 15 Mar 2016 at 21:16:14 +, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > On Tuesday 15 March 2016 19:40:07 Brian wrote:
> > > Gene Haskett has an HL-3170CDW, which he now knows does AirPrint. I
> > > believe he is someone who is up for a challenge. Compared with flooded
> > > basements, lightning strikes, falling trees and power cuts this is
> > > small beer. If he is amenable he could
> > >
> > > 1. Install avahi-daemon and avahi-utils.
> > >
> > > 2. Do
> > >
> > > avahi-browse -art > discovered
> > >
> > > and post the file "discovered" here. Then we might progress.
> > >
> > > Your printer cannot deal with files sent directly from an iOS device.
> > > Through the mediation of Debian CUPS it can.
> >
> > But in order to do it, he would have to install Jessie, would he not? 
> > And I don't think he has a spare computer on which to do so. :-(
>
> To use avahi-daemon to pick up Bonjour broadcasts? No.
>
> If I am wrong it takes five minutes on Wheezy to find out.

Over to you, Gene?? :-)

Lisi

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Brian]

On Tue 15 Mar 2016 at 21:16:14 +, Lisi Reisz wrote:

> On Tuesday 15 March 2016 19:40:07 Brian wrote:
> >
> > Gene Haskett has an HL-3170CDW, which he now knows does AirPrint. I
> > believe he is someone who is up for a challenge. Compared with flooded
> > basements, lightning strikes, falling trees and power cuts this is small
> > beer. If he is amenable he could
> >
> > 1. Install avahi-daemon and avahi-utils.
> >
> > 2. Do
> >
> > avahi-browse -art > discovered
> >
> > and post the file "discovered" here. Then we might progress.
> >
> > Your printer cannot deal with files sent directly from an iOS device.
> > Through the mediation of Debian CUPS it can.
> 
> But in order to do it, he would have to install Jessie, would he not?  And I 
> don't think he has a spare computer on which to do so. :-(

To use avahi-daemon to pick up Bonjour broadcasts? No.

If I am wrong it takes five minutes on Wheezy to find out.

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Lisi Reisz]

On Tuesday 15 March 2016 19:40:07 Brian wrote:
> On Tue 15 Mar 2016 at 09:46:26 -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > On Mon 14 Mar 2016 at 13:20:25 (+), Brian wrote:
> > > "PDF filter" would be a suitable substitute for "PDF converter". But
> > > not "PDF interpreter".
> >
> > OK. Debating what to call what happens between PDF and ink-on-paper
> > is "less important" (I'm learning) than my trying to tie down whether
> > that process takes place entirely in the printer, ie the box we bring
> > back from the store.
>
> I thought we had established that the filtering process takes place
> entirely on the printer. After all, there are no drivers on the sending
> device.
>
> > > Yes. But maybe my understanding of what an onboard PS/PCL/PDF
> > > interpreter does (stated in an earlier mail) is different from yours.
> >
> > OK. Debating... (ditto as above).
>
> Ok, yes. But I have said what I mean by an interpreter. You haven't.
>
> > > We seem to be both agreed that a PDF arriving at an AirPrint-compatible
> > > printer has to be dealt with in some way to ready it for printing.
> > > Let's leave it there. It is interesting to speculate how a printer
> > > processes a PDF sent from a driverless device but ultimately it is of
> > > no great consequence because it is not under our control.
> >
> > It's of the greatest consequence if there's a way of getting a linux
> > box to send PDF files to an AirPrint printer and have them print.
>
> CUPS is not involved in printing to an AirPrint printer. Debian CUPS has
> been patched to enable an iOS device to send to any printer (AirPrint
> capable or not). The principles to do it have been worked out and it is
> Bonjour broadcasting which is the key.
>
> > It means you can walk into a store and just buy something, take it
> > home and it works. A bit like when I worked in a university: the
> > printers understood PDF files so I knew I could just send stuff to the
> > queue and it would print it.
> >
> > Here's my old methodology for buying a printer:
> > -Go to the store and look and printers.
> > -Persuade wife to "check reviews" rather than buy straight away.
> > -Go home and look at linuxprinting-type websites for linux compatibility.
> > -Search forums for complaints/difficulties.
> > -List some linux-compatible models.
> > -Go back to store only to find that all these model numbers are out of
> > date and unavailable, replaced by shiny new models.
> > -Persuade wife that the shiniest model she wants is going to be a great
> > doorstop (or else she's going to have to print all my wants from a
> > stick). -Buy a printer.
> > -Find a driver that kind-of works.
> > -Work round the problems that the driver throws up.
>
> Since it is mentioned twice, your major tussle with printer purchase
> appears to be with your wife. Driver choice and adaptation pales into
> insignificance compared with this, :)
>
> > > It really should. Without Bonjour broadcasting by the printer AirPrint
> > > would not exist.
> >
> > I wrote "in this discussion". Drivers, not discovery. AFAICT I'm
> > already using avahi to print now. I'm not, however, sending raw PDFs
> > to the discovered printer.
>
> Unless the printer has a PDF interpreter you will be disappointed with
> the result.
>
> > > as a solution to Jarle Aase's issue. All we need is someone with an
> > > AirPrint printer to test it. :).
> >
> > Yes. Has noone else on this list bought one? There's a huge list of
> > models. Unfortunately my model is HP Officejet Pro 85xx and one
> > needs 86xx for AirPrint inclusion.
>
> Gene Haskett has an HL-3170CDW, which he now knows does AirPrint. I
> believe he is someone who is up for a challenge. Compared with flooded
> basements, lightning strikes, falling trees and power cuts this is small
> beer. If he is amenable he could
>
> 1. Install avahi-daemon and avahi-utils.
>
> 2. Do
>
> avahi-browse -art > discovered
>
> and post the file "discovered" here. Then we might progress.
>
> Your printer cannot deal with files sent directly from an iOS device.
> Through the mediation of Debian CUPS it can.

But in order to do it, he would have to install Jessie, would he not?  And I 
don't think he has a spare computer on which to do so. :-(

Lisi

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Brian]

On Tue 15 Mar 2016 at 09:46:26 -0500, David Wright wrote:

> On Mon 14 Mar 2016 at 13:20:25 (+), Brian wrote:
> > 
> > "PDF filter" would be a suitable substitute for "PDF converter". But not
> > "PDF interpreter".
> 
> OK. Debating what to call what happens between PDF and ink-on-paper
> is "less important" (I'm learning) than my trying to tie down whether
> that process takes place entirely in the printer, ie the box we bring
> back from the store.

I thought we had established that the filtering process takes place
entirely on the printer. After all, there are no drivers on the sending
device.  

> > Yes. But maybe my understanding of what an onboard PS/PCL/PDF interpreter
> > does (stated in an earlier mail) is different from yours.
> 
> OK. Debating... (ditto as above).

Ok, yes. But I have said what I mean by an interpreter. You haven't.
 
> > We seem to be both agreed that a PDF arriving at an AirPrint-compatible
> > printer has to be dealt with in some way to ready it for printing. Let's
> > leave it there. It is interesting to speculate how a printer processes a
> > PDF sent from a driverless device but ultimately it is of no great
> > consequence because it is not under our control.
> 
> It's of the greatest consequence if there's a way of getting a linux
> box to send PDF files to an AirPrint printer and have them print.

CUPS is not involved in printing to an AirPrint printer. Debian CUPS has
been patched to enable an iOS device to send to any printer (AirPrint
capable or not). The principles to do it have been worked out and it is
Bonjour broadcasting which is the key.

> It means you can walk into a store and just buy something, take it
> home and it works. A bit like when I worked in a university: the
> printers understood PDF files so I knew I could just send stuff to the
> queue and it would print it.
> 
> Here's my old methodology for buying a printer:
> -Go to the store and look and printers.
> -Persuade wife to "check reviews" rather than buy straight away.
> -Go home and look at linuxprinting-type websites for linux compatibility.
> -Search forums for complaints/difficulties.
> -List some linux-compatible models.
> -Go back to store only to find that all these model numbers are out of
> date and unavailable, replaced by shiny new models.
> -Persuade wife that the shiniest model she wants is going to be a great
> doorstop (or else she's going to have to print all my wants from a stick).
> -Buy a printer.
> -Find a driver that kind-of works.
> -Work round the problems that the driver throws up.

Since it is mentioned twice, your major tussle with printer purchase
appears to be with your wife. Driver choice and adaptation pales into
insignificance compared with this, :)
 
> > It really should. Without Bonjour broadcasting by the printer AirPrint
> > would not exist.
> 
> I wrote "in this discussion". Drivers, not discovery. AFAICT I'm
> already using avahi to print now. I'm not, however, sending raw PDFs
> to the discovered printer.

Unless the printer has a PDF interpreter you will be disappointed with
the result.

> > as a solution to Jarle Aase's issue. All we need is someone with an
> > AirPrint printer to test it. :).
> 
> Yes. Has noone else on this list bought one? There's a huge list of
> models. Unfortunately my model is HP Officejet Pro 85xx and one
> needs 86xx for AirPrint inclusion.

Gene Haskett has an HL-3170CDW, which he now knows does AirPrint. I
believe he is someone who is up for a challenge. Compared with flooded
basements, lightning strikes, falling trees and power cuts this is small
beer. If he is amenable he could

1. Install avahi-daemon and avahi-utils.

2. Do

avahi-browse -art > discovered

and post the file "discovered" here. Then we might progress.

Your printer cannot deal with files sent directly from an iOS device.
Through the mediation of Debian CUPS it can.

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[jdd]

Le 15/03/2016 16:01, David Wright a écrit :


You write "Is Airprint free?". Is this a real question or a pointed
remark designed to create more discussion? I can't tell. Why don't
you just look it up?

You write "not from me, but from others, may be." Perhaps you
might google the following phrase. That's what I think.


I got the impression than you don't want to use the brother driver 
because it's not free. If it's not that, I'm sorry.


if It's that, I think that a driver is just an extension of the 
hardware, so why use a non free hardware an don't use the same non free 
driver.


this don't mean working on a free solution is not interesting, but 
replacing a non free solution by a non free other solution is not very 
funny.


We all work constantly with non free solutions, including RMS, whatever 
he says... the more the better, but where to stop?


jdd

https://libreboot.org/
http://www.openfirmware.info/Welcome_to_OpenBIOS
(and so on...)

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[David Wright]

On Tue 15 Mar 2016 at 08:11:12 (+0100), jdd wrote:
> Le 15/03/2016 03:30, David Wright a écrit :
> >On Mon 14 Mar 2016 at 22:43:04 (+0100), jdd wrote:
> 
> >>so we already use an apple thing, why not two?
> >
> >Writing "why not" implies disapproval.
> 
> not from me, but from others, may be. Else why not use simply the
> Brother driver? Is Airprint free? and secure?
> 
> freedom is very difficult to define when you get close to the
> hardware. After all, every BIOS/UEFI is closed source as far as I
> know, and the open source bios project is not very active...

OK, the fact that you only addressed that part of my posting means
that I'll stop here. None of your earlier suggestions has seemed
sensible to me or advanced my understanding of AirPrint. (Notice "me":
I'm not claiming to know what others think.)

You write "Is Airprint free?". Is this a real question or a pointed
remark designed to create more discussion? I can't tell. Why don't
you just look it up?

You write "not from me, but from others, may be." Perhaps you
might google the following phrase. That's what I think.

"creating an impression that a specific and/or meaningful statement has
been made, when only a vague or ambiguous claim has been communicated"

Cheers,
David.

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[David Wright]

On Mon 14 Mar 2016 at 13:20:25 (+), Brian wrote:
> On Sun 13 Mar 2016 at 22:48:07 -0500, David Wright wrote:
> 
> > On Sun 13 Mar 2016 at 19:32:04 (+), Brian wrote:
> > > 
> > > I've said specifically it has a PDF converter. It must have; the printer
> > > does not understand PDF.
> > 
> > Once again, I don't understand this statement because I don't
> > understand your terminology...
> 
> "PDF filter" would be a suitable substitute for "PDF converter". But not
> "PDF interpreter".

OK. Debating what to call what happens between PDF and ink-on-paper
is "less important" (I'm learning) than my trying to tie down whether
that process takes place entirely in the printer, ie the box we bring
back from the store.

> > My question with pronouns removed: "So if a PDF arrives by AirPrint,
> > how does the MFC-J5720DW printer interpret the PDF if the MFC-J5720DW
> > printer doesn't have a PDF converter?"
> > 
> > Your response AIUI with pronouns removed: "I've said specifically the
> > MFC-J5720DW printer has a PDF converter. The MFC-J5720DW printer must
> > have; the MFC-J5720DW printer does not understand PDF."
> > 
> > Is that what you mean to say? If not, couuld you replace the
> > appropriate nouns by different nouns.
> 
> Yes. But maybe my understanding of what an onboard PS/PCL/PDF interpreter
> does (stated in an earlier mail) is different from yours.

OK. Debating... (ditto as above).

> > None of your examples (the bits -> like -> this) have "AirPrint"
> > mentioned in them. I'm trying to learn from you what AirPrint is and
> > what it does. And yet your statements about it say things like
> > "The AirPrint facility handles a PDF (it has to)." and "Substitute PS,
> > PCL, QPDL etc for BUL to see how other manufacturers might deal with
> > AirPrint." which tell me nothing specifically about AirPrint.
> 
> We seem to be both agreed that a PDF arriving at an AirPrint-compatible
> printer has to be dealt with in some way to ready it for printing. Let's
> leave it there. It is interesting to speculate how a printer processes a
> PDF sent from a driverless device but ultimately it is of no great
> consequence because it is not under our control.

It's of the greatest consequence if there's a way of getting a linux
box to send PDF files to an AirPrint printer and have them print.
It means you can walk into a store and just buy something, take it
home and it works. A bit like when I worked in a university: the
printers understood PDF files so I knew I could just send stuff to the
queue and it would print it.

Here's my old methodology for buying a printer:
-Go to the store and look and printers.
-Persuade wife to "check reviews" rather than buy straight away.
-Go home and look at linuxprinting-type websites for linux compatibility.
-Search forums for complaints/difficulties.
-List some linux-compatible models.
-Go back to store only to find that all these model numbers are out of
date and unavailable, replaced by shiny new models.
-Persuade wife that the shiniest model she wants is going to be a great
doorstop (or else she's going to have to print all my wants from a stick).
-Buy a printer.
-Find a driver that kind-of works.
-Work round the problems that the driver throws up.

> > > The part played by what is in the Bonjour broadcasts is crucial to the
> > > whole thing working. Apart from the questionable use of cp, IPP is used
> > > for printing and is what is advertised in the broadcasts.
> > 
> > OK. I can see that CUPS has some work to do to find the printer with
> > whatever it uses (dnssd/avahi/bonjour/...). That part doesn't really
> > interest me in this discussion.
> 
> It really should. Without Bonjour broadcasting by the printer AirPrint
> would not exist.

I wrote "in this discussion". Drivers, not discovery. AFAICT I'm
already using avahi to print now. I'm not, however, sending raw PDFs
to the discovered printer.

> > > The CUPS backend converts PDF to BUL.
> > 
> > Why bother? The AirPrint technology built into the MFC-J5720DW printer
> > can do that. Why can't CUPS send PDF down the wire to the printer,
> > thereby avoiding all the driver-crap? You've just said "The AirPrint
> > facility handles a PDF" (requoted above). Why not let it do so?
> 
> Why not, indeed? The Bonjour broadcasts of the printer should be picked
> up by avahi-daemon and the printer listed in the print dialogues of some
> applications (e.g Iceweasel/Firefox). These applications produce PDFs as
> a matter of course. They are sent directly to the printer and the
> printer sorts them in some way. No filtering on the machine is
> necessary so cupsd is not involved, whether or not it is on the system.
> 
> This implementation of this idea was the objective being worked towards
> in
> 
>   https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/03/msg00401.html
> 
> as a solution to Jarle Aase's issue. All we need is someone with an
> AirPrint printer to test it. :).

Yes. Has noone else on this list bought one? There's a huge list of

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[jdd]

Le 15/03/2016 03:30, David Wright a écrit :

On Mon 14 Mar 2016 at 22:43:04 (+0100), jdd wrote:



so we already use an apple thing, why not two?


Writing "why not" implies disapproval.


not from me, but from others, may be. Else why not use simply the 
Brother driver? Is Airprint free? and secure?


freedom is very difficult to define when you get close to the hardware. 
After all, every BIOS/UEFI is closed source as far as I know, and the 
open source bios project is not very active...


jdd

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[David Wright]

On Mon 14 Mar 2016 at 22:43:04 (+0100), jdd wrote:
> Le 14/03/2016 21:14, Brian a écrit :
> >On Mon 14 Mar 2016 at 21:00:01 +0100, jdd wrote:
> >
> >>Le 14/03/2016 20:31, Brian a écrit :
> >>
> >>notice that cups is apple, AFAIK
> >
> >So what?
> >
> so we already use an apple thing, why not two?

Writing "why not" implies disapproval. I'm not sure if you meant that.
Much of this long thread is about trying to find out if there's a
way of getting AirPrint to facilitate sending raw PDF files from
non-iOS devices (like linux PCs) to a printer that otherwise might
not accept this format. If they've followed the thread this far,
they're unlikely to reject it just because Apple were behind it.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[jdd]

Le 14/03/2016 21:14, Brian a écrit :

On Mon 14 Mar 2016 at 21:00:01 +0100, jdd wrote:


Le 14/03/2016 20:31, Brian a écrit :

notice that cups is apple, AFAIK


So what?


so we already use an apple thing, why not two?

jdd

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Brian]

On Mon 14 Mar 2016 at 21:00:01 +0100, jdd wrote:

> Le 14/03/2016 20:31, Brian a écrit :
> 
> notice that cups is apple, AFAIK

So what?

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[jdd]

Le 14/03/2016 20:31, Brian a écrit :


You print and an hour later the contract is signed.


very clever



I do not know what your point is.


nowhere, I simply didn't know about airprint befor reading this thread

notice that cups is apple, AFAIK

jdd

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Brian]

On Mon 14 Mar 2016 at 15:39:01 +0100, jdd wrote:

> Le 14/03/2016 14:10, David Wright a écrit :
> 
> >"AirPrint is built into most popular printer models, like the ones
> >listed in this article." which includes MFC-J5720DW in the list.
> 
> 
> >Both from https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201311
> >
> 
> may be popular in mac world, I never touched a printer with this :-(

We live in an interconnected world, not a MAC world. AirPrint uses open
standard protocols to operate.

A large, influential international company has all its printers at head
office AirPrint enabled, You visit there with a proposal for a 10M Euro
contract. You are asked to print the contract. Your laptop runs Debian
and can pick up the Bonjour broadcasts of a printer.

You print and an hour later the contract is signed.

I do not know what your point is.

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Adam Wilson]

On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 12:46:08 + Lisi Reisz 
wrote:

> On Saturday 12 March 2016 07:50:49 to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > So. Now I'll bite off my tongue and take my ball with me. I'm off
> > this thread. I can't bear the overall animosity and poking of
> > fun at those who try to put some effort into avoiding binary
> > blobs. It reminds me of the poking at vegetarians "now are snails
> > vegetables or not?". I thought I left that behind in my teens.
> 
> And the Everything Free brigade is so pleasant to anyone who wants to
> use binary blobs??  I was nearly lynched for wanting to use something
> from the non-free repository.
> 
> Why can't we all live and let live?  And all I have seen in this
> thread is people not comprehending.  No-one being unpleasant and
> castigating.
> 
> I have a ball if anyone would like it. ;-)
> 
> Lisi
> 

And all this on a mailing list belonging to a distribution that
actually has the decency to call itself GNU/Linux. Whatever next?

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[jdd]

Le 14/03/2016 14:10, David Wright a écrit :


"AirPrint is built into most popular printer models, like the ones
listed in this article." which includes MFC-J5720DW in the list.




Both from https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201311



may be popular in mac world, I never touched a printer with this :-(

jdd

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Brian]

On Sun 13 Mar 2016 at 22:48:07 -0500, David Wright wrote:

> On Sun 13 Mar 2016 at 19:32:04 (+), Brian wrote:
> > 
> > I've said specifically it has a PDF converter. It must have; the printer
> > does not understand PDF.
> 
> Once again, I don't understand this statement because I don't
> understand your terminology...

"PDF filter" would be a suitable substitute for "PDF converter". But not
"PDF interpreter".
 
> My question with pronouns removed: "So if a PDF arrives by AirPrint,
> how does the MFC-J5720DW printer interpret the PDF if the MFC-J5720DW
> printer doesn't have a PDF converter?"
> 
> Your response AIUI with pronouns removed: "I've said specifically the
> MFC-J5720DW printer has a PDF converter. The MFC-J5720DW printer must
> have; the MFC-J5720DW printer does not understand PDF."
> 
> Is that what you mean to say? If not, couuld you replace the
> appropriate nouns by different nouns.

Yes. But maybe my understanding of what an onboard PS/PCL/PDF interpreter
does (stated in an earlier mail) is different from yours.

> None of your examples (the bits -> like -> this) have "AirPrint"
> mentioned in them. I'm trying to learn from you what AirPrint is and
> what it does. And yet your statements about it say things like
> "The AirPrint facility handles a PDF (it has to)." and "Substitute PS,
> PCL, QPDL etc for BUL to see how other manufacturers might deal with
> AirPrint." which tell me nothing specifically about AirPrint.

We seem to be both agreed that a PDF arriving at an AirPrint-compatible
printer has to be dealt with in some way to ready it for printing. Let's
leave it there. It is interesting to speculate how a printer processes a
PDF sent from a driverless device but ultimately it is of no great
consequence because it is not under our control.

> > The part played by what is in the Bonjour broadcasts is crucial to the
> > whole thing working. Apart from the questionable use of cp, IPP is used
> > for printing and is what is advertised in the broadcasts.
> 
> OK. I can see that CUPS has some work to do to find the printer with
> whatever it uses (dnssd/avahi/bonjour/...). That part doesn't really
> interest me in this discussion.

It really should. Without Bonjour broadcasting by the printer AirPrint
would not exist.

> > The CUPS backend converts PDF to BUL.
> 
> Why bother? The AirPrint technology built into the MFC-J5720DW printer
> can do that. Why can't CUPS send PDF down the wire to the printer,
> thereby avoiding all the driver-crap? You've just said "The AirPrint
> facility handles a PDF" (requoted above). Why not let it do so?

Why not, indeed? The Bonjour broadcasts of the printer should be picked
up by avahi-daemon and the printer listed in the print dialogues of some
applications (e.g Iceweasel/Firefox). These applications produce PDFs as
a matter of course. They are sent directly to the printer and the
printer sorts them in some way. No filtering on the machine is
necessary so cupsd is not involved, whether or not it is on the system.

This implementation of this idea was the objective being worked towards
in

  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/03/msg00401.html

as a solution to Jarle Aase's issue. All we need is someone with an
AirPrint printer to test it. :).

But if the printer is not AirPrint-compatible we will need cupsd and the
backend filter. (That lead to the discussion of what happens on the
printer).

> > But, as it happens, you do not
> > need cupsd to print to an AirPrint printer.
> 
> OK. What's the minimum that you _do_ need? By minimum, I'm meaning
> things like drivers; the things that linux users get tripped up by;
> the things that make "perfectly functional" printers into doorstops.

When cupsd isn't running no drivers are needed because the print job is
sent directly to the AirPrint-compatible printer. avahi-daemon is
required, of course.

When sent to a non-compatible printer the minimum number of drivers
needed is determined by the printer make and model when it is set up as
a local or remote shared printer with CUPS.

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[David Wright]

On Mon 14 Mar 2016 at 08:43:06 (+0100), jdd wrote:
> Le 14/03/2016 04:48, David Wright a écrit :
> 
> >Why bother? The AirPrint technology built into the MFC-J5720DW printer
> >can do that. Why can't CUPS send PDF down the wire to the printer,
> >thereby avoiding all the driver-crap? You've just said "The AirPrint
> >facility handles a PDF" (requoted above). Why not let it do so?
> 
> my guess is that airprint is a black box between the "air" (what
> ever it means) and the printer, like an ethernet card can be.

Not having such a printer, I can only quote what I see written by
people who should know:

"AirPrint is built into most popular printer models, like the ones
listed in this article." which includes MFC-J5720DW in the list.

"On your Mac, you can also connect your AirPrint printer to a USB port
or Ethernet port if you don't want to print wirelessly. Check the
documentation that came with your printer to see if it includes one
of these ports."

Both from https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201311

> If you send ethernet signal through usb, the printer wont understand
> it. If it's so, the printer only understand pdf if used with
> airprint.
> 
> the other solution is having in the printer a linux box (invisible
> to user) having an airprint interface, an usb interface, etc, and
> then the usb may also understand pdf.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[jdd]

Le 14/03/2016 04:48, David Wright a écrit :


Why bother? The AirPrint technology built into the MFC-J5720DW printer
can do that. Why can't CUPS send PDF down the wire to the printer,
thereby avoiding all the driver-crap? You've just said "The AirPrint
facility handles a PDF" (requoted above). Why not let it do so?


my guess is that airprint is a black box between the "air" (what ever it 
means) and the printer, like an ethernet card can be.


If you send ethernet signal through usb, the printer wont understand it. 
If it's so, the printer only understand pdf if used with airprint.


the other solution is having in the printer a linux box (invisible to 
user) having an airprint interface, an usb interface, etc, and then the 
usb may also understand pdf.


jdd

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[David Wright]

On Sun 13 Mar 2016 at 19:32:04 (+), Brian wrote:
> On Sat 12 Mar 2016 at 23:43:27 -0600, David Wright wrote:
> 
> > On Sat 12 Mar 2016 at 09:56:37 (+), Brian wrote:
> > 
> > > The PDL of choice for AirPrint capable devices is PDF. A PDF document
> > > sent to an Airprint capable printer is converted to BUL (the Brother
> > > Unknown Language) as it would be if it was processed on a workstation by
> > > CUPS.
> > > 
> > > Note that this is a conversion, not an interpretation. An interpreter
> > > produces a raster image and this happens later when the RIP deals with
> > > BUL.
> > 
> > So you appear to be saying that what passes through the AirPrint wire
> > or wifi link is a PDF. The printer then converts it to BUL, then raster.
> 
> The file type sent by Safari (say) from an iOS device is controlled by
> Apple. Observation shows it is PDF.

If you say so. I haven't observed anything as I don't have one
(neither iOS nor whatever is at the other end of the communication).

> > > The important word is "direct". The MFC-J5720DW doesn't have a  PDF
> > > interpreter. Hence the silence.
> > 
> > So if a PDF arrives by AirPrint, how does the MFC-J5720DW interpret it
> > if it doesn't have a PDF converter? (I am genuinely ignorant and confused.)
> 
> I've said specifically it has a PDF converter. It must have; the printer
> does not understand PDF.

Once again, I don't understand this statement because I don't
understand your terminology...

My question with pronouns removed: "So if a PDF arrives by AirPrint,
how does the MFC-J5720DW printer interpret the PDF if the MFC-J5720DW
printer doesn't have a PDF converter?"

Your response AIUI with pronouns removed: "I've said specifically the
MFC-J5720DW printer has a PDF converter. The MFC-J5720DW printer must
have; the MFC-J5720DW printer does not understand PDF."

Is that what you mean to say? If not, couuld you replace the
appropriate nouns by different nouns.

> > I'm used to this:
> > 
> > Paper -> scanner -> PDF containing image -> [...wifi...] -> computer
> > 
> > where the PDF is really just a container with an image in it.
> > And then its converse (but not its inverse):
> > 
> > Computer PDF -> CUPS -[convert]-> BUL -> [...wifi...] -> BrotherPrinter 
> > -[RIP]-> paper
> > 
> > where the Computer PDF contains some postscript-like code mixed
> > in with fonts etc which has to be "converted".
> > 
> > So now with AirPrint we have:
> > 
> > Phone PDF -[no-driver]-> [...wifi...] -> AirPrint -[convert]-> BUL -[RIP]-> 
> > paper
> > 
> > Linux computer PDF -> CUPS -> [...wifi...] -> AirPrint -[convert]-> BUL 
> > -[RIP]-> paper
> 
> That last line is not correct for using Debian CUPS with an iOS device.

That last line wasn't intended to represent my thinking on how an iOS
device would be handled. "Phone" is the iOS device, as shown in the
_previous_ line.

> The process is:
> 
> iOS device -> CUPS (BUL out) -> Printer -> Print
> 
> With CUPS the process is:
> 
> This is done by CUPS
> ++
> | Input file -> convert to PDF -> Convert to BUL | -> Printer does something
> ++
> 
> Because the sending device is driverless all I am saying (I have no
> special insight) is that with Airprint we have:
> 
>  Done on the printer
>+--+
> iOS device -> Sends PDF -> | Convert to BUL -> Printer does something |
>+--+
> 
> One filtering stage has to be moved to the printer. I do not know how it
> is done but it reasonable to guess the same method which CUPS uses is 
> also used. What I am sure about is that there is no PDF interpreter on
> the printer. Brother already have the technology to convert from PDF to
> BUL and, as a practical point, an interpreter would raise the cost of
> production of the printer.
> 
> Substitute PS, PCL, QPDL etc for BUL to see how other manufacturers 
> might deal with AirPrint.

None of your examples (the bits -> like -> this) have "AirPrint"
mentioned in them. I'm trying to learn from you what AirPrint is and
what it does. And yet your statements about it say things like
"The AirPrint facility handles a PDF (it has to)." and "Substitute PS,
PCL, QPDL etc for BUL to see how other manufacturers might deal with
AirPrint." which tell me nothing specifically about AirPrint.

> > but what does the backend of CUPS have to do? Why not just
> > cp ~/my-file.pdf dnssd://Brother%20Printer...
> > if you're not bothered about queueing/scheduling etc.
> 
> The part played by what is in the Bonjour broadcasts is crucial to the
> whole thing working. Apart from the questionable use of cp, IPP is used
> for printing and is what is advertised in the broadcasts.

OK. I can see that CUPS has some work to do to find the printer with
whatever it uses (dnssd/avahi/bonjour/...). That part 

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[jdd]

Le 13/03/2016 20:40, Brian a écrit :


*Direct* PDF printing is usually indicated in the printer's literature.


nothing is never sure. When it's so easy to try why don't?




this airprint feature is surprising


In what way?


if it don't support pdf...

but may be there is a pdf translator in the airprint device included in 
the printer


jdd

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Brian]

On Sun 13 Mar 2016 at 20:21:45 +0100, jdd wrote:

> Le 13/03/2016 20:12, David Wright a écrit :
> 
> >As I said, you're in a different price bracket. Guessing by what I've
> >seen, it's partly because PDF printing tends to come with lasers
> >and ethernet, ie for office documents, not home photographs.
> >
> 
> but did you really try to send a pdf to your printer? only need to remove
> most of the paper to prevent loss if it don't fit :-)

*Direct* PDF printing is usually indicated in the printer's literature.

> this airprint feature is surprising

In what way?

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Brian]

On Sat 12 Mar 2016 at 23:43:27 -0600, David Wright wrote:

> On Sat 12 Mar 2016 at 09:56:37 (+), Brian wrote:
> 
> > The PDL of choice for AirPrint capable devices is PDF. A PDF document
> > sent to an Airprint capable printer is converted to BUL (the Brother
> > Unknown Language) as it would be if it was processed on a workstation by
> > CUPS.
> > 
> > Note that this is a conversion, not an interpretation. An interpreter
> > produces a raster image and this happens later when the RIP deals with
> > BUL.
> 
> So you appear to be saying that what passes through the AirPrint wire
> or wifi link is a PDF. The printer then converts it to BUL, then raster.

The file type sent by Safari (say) from an iOS device is controlled by
Apple. Observation shows it is PDF.

> > The important word is "direct". The MFC-J5720DW doesn't have a  PDF
> > interpreter. Hence the silence.
> 
> So if a PDF arrives by AirPrint, how does the MFC-J5720DW interpret it
> if it doesn't have a PDF converter? (I am genuinely ignorant and confused.)

I've said specifically it has a PDF converter. It must have; the printer
does not understand PDF.

> I'm used to this:
> 
> Paper -> scanner -> PDF containing image -> [...wifi...] -> computer
> 
> where the PDF is really just a container with an image in it.
> And then its converse (but not its inverse):
> 
> Computer PDF -> CUPS -[convert]-> BUL -> [...wifi...] -> BrotherPrinter 
> -[RIP]-> paper
> 
> where the Computer PDF contains some postscript-like code mixed
> in with fonts etc which has to be "converted".
> 
> So now with AirPrint we have:
> 
> Phone PDF -[no-driver]-> [...wifi...] -> AirPrint -[convert]-> BUL -[RIP]-> 
> paper
> 
> Linux computer PDF -> CUPS -> [...wifi...] -> AirPrint -[convert]-> BUL 
> -[RIP]-> paper

That last line is not correct for using Debian CUPS with an iOS device.
The process is:

iOS device -> CUPS (BUL out) -> Printer -> Print

With CUPS the process is:

This is done by CUPS
++
| Input file -> convert to PDF -> Convert to BUL | -> Printer does something
++

Because the sending device is driverless all I am saying (I have no
special insight) is that with Airprint we have:

 Done on the printer
   +--+
iOS device -> Sends PDF -> | Convert to BUL -> Printer does something |
   +--+

One filtering stage has to be moved to the printer. I do not know how it
is done but it reasonable to guess the same method which CUPS uses is 
also used. What I am sure about is that there is no PDF interpreter on
the printer. Brother already have the technology to convert from PDF to
BUL and, as a practical point, an interpreter would raise the cost of
production of the printer.

Substitute PS, PCL, QPDL etc for BUL to see how other manufacturers 
might deal with AirPrint.

> but what does the backend of CUPS have to do? Why not just
> cp ~/my-file.pdf dnssd://Brother%20Printer...
> if you're not bothered about queueing/scheduling etc.

The part played by what is in the Bonjour broadcasts is crucial to the
whole thing working. Apart from the questionable use of cp, IPP is used
for printing and is what is advertised in the broadcasts.

The CUPS backend converts PDF to BUL. But, as it happens, you do not
need cupsd to print to an AirPrint printer.

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[jdd]

Le 13/03/2016 20:12, David Wright a écrit :


As I said, you're in a different price bracket. Guessing by what I've
seen, it's partly because PDF printing tends to come with lasers
and ethernet, ie for office documents, not home photographs.



but did you really try to send a pdf to your printer? only need to 
remove most of the paper to prevent loss if it don't fit :-)


this airprint feature is surprising

jdd

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[David Wright]

On Sun 13 Mar 2016 at 09:04:47 (+0100), jdd wrote:
> Le 13/03/2016 05:34, David Wright a écrit :
> 
> >Well, let's assume that most people buy their equipment rather than
> >being given it for free.
> 
> I also bought one for $25 (the two of them had already 200.000
> copies done :-) - but it's an obsolete machine now
> 
> of course it was trash bin machines, most companies do not keep
> machines for more than 5-7 years and you can have them second hand;
> but looks like french second hand is much cheaper than us ones.
> 
> but it was only an example
> 
> >I can see a refurbished one on the web for $340 (if that's the right
> >model) which is far more than a new AiO.
> 
> much too expensive
> 
> I found at first glance:
> 
> http://www.inmac-wstore.com/produits/p2622357/HP-LaserJet-Pro-400-M401d---imprimante---monochrome---laser.htm
> 
> I sure one can find some cheaper

Why are you suggesting monochrome models? Please let's compare like
with like. You've disputed my suggestion that having native support
for PDF printing makes a printer expensive compared with the
example in the subject line (list price $250).

> but I didn't said you have to change your Brother printer. I use
> daily Brother printers and I'm very glad about them
> 
> here the list of ps linux compatibles brother printers
> 
> http://www.openprinting.org/driver/Postscript-Brother/

which seems to confirm their expensiveness. Taking the lowest numbered
model in each category that prints colour (note, prints only) and is
available to buy:

DCP-9xxx you can buy these in India though I can't work out if they're new.
HL-2700CN $450 (refurbished)
MFC-9010CN $1100

As I said, you're in a different price bracket. Guessing by what I've
seen, it's partly because PDF printing tends to come with lasers
and ethernet, ie for office documents, not home photographs.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Celejar]

On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 22:34:41 -0600
David Wright  wrote:

...

> The HP5M is solely a printer which is fine as far as it goes, but now
> I need to buy a scanner, and quite possibly a fax machine, as well.
> AFAICT I'd have to use it through a parallel (or serial?) interface.
> This laptop has neither. You can network it with 10Base-T for a price,
> but no USB connection.

JFTR, it should be noted that USB - RS232 converters (which, AFAIK, all
use the same couple of chipsets which are well supported by linux) are
cheap and readily available, e.g.:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RS232-RS-232-Serial-to-USB-2-0-PL2303-Cable-Adapter-Converter-for-Linux-System-/271217594818

 
Celejar

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[jdd]

Le 13/03/2016 05:34, David Wright a écrit :


Well, let's assume that most people buy their equipment rather than
being given it for free.


I also bought one for $25 (the two of them had already 200.000 copies 
done :-) - but it's an obsolete machine now


of course it was trash bin machines, most companies do not keep machines 
for more than 5-7 years and you can have them second hand; but looks 
like french second hand is much cheaper than us ones.


but it was only an example


I can see a refurbished one on the web for $340 (if that's the right
model) which is far more than a new AiO.


much too expensive

I found at first glance:

http://www.inmac-wstore.com/produits/p2622357/HP-LaserJet-Pro-400-M401d---imprimante---monochrome---laser.htm

I sure one can find some cheaper

but I didn't said you have to change your Brother printer. I use daily 
Brother printers and I'm very glad about them


here the list of ps linux compatibles brother printers

http://www.openprinting.org/driver/Postscript-Brother/

jdd

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[David Wright]

On Sat 12 Mar 2016 at 09:56:37 (+), Brian wrote:
> On Fri 11 Mar 2016 at 12:39:58 -0600, David Wright wrote:
> 
> > On Fri 11 Mar 2016 at 17:48:01 (+), Brian wrote:
> > > 
> > > The AirPrint facility handles a PDF (it has to).
> > 
> > I don't understand this statement. If a printer doesn't have a PS
> > interpreter (or emulation thereof), are you saying that it acquires
> > one by virtue of supporting AirPrint?
> 
> No. (I think you meant PDF).

I guess so. Using your terminology below, "PDF converter" is ok with me.

> The PDL of choice for AirPrint capable devices is PDF. A PDF document
> sent to an Airprint capable printer is converted to BUL (the Brother
> Unknown Language) as it would be if it was processed on a workstation by
> CUPS.
> 
> Note that this is a conversion, not an interpretation. An interpreter
> produces a raster image and this happens later when the RIP deals with
> BUL.

So you appear to be saying that what passes through the AirPrint wire
or wifi link is a PDF. The printer then converts it to BUL, then raster.

> > > Whether the printer
> > > handles direct PDF printing is questionable. But it's a decent idea to
> > > try.
> > 
> > It would seem odd to support PDF printing and be silent on the matter
> > in the printer's literature, eg 
> > www.printerbase.co.uk/spec/pdf/brother-mfcj5720dw.pdf
> > http://support.brother.com/g/b/spec.aspx?c=eu_ot=en=mfcj5720dw_us_eu_as
> 
> The important word is "direct". The MFC-J5720DW doesn't have a  PDF
> interpreter. Hence the silence.

So if a PDF arrives by AirPrint, how does the MFC-J5720DW interpret it
if it doesn't have a PDF converter? (I am genuinely ignorant and confused.)

I'm used to this:

Paper -> scanner -> PDF containing image -> [...wifi...] -> computer

where the PDF is really just a container with an image in it.
And then its converse (but not its inverse):

Computer PDF -> CUPS -[convert]-> BUL -> [...wifi...] -> BrotherPrinter 
-[RIP]-> paper

where the Computer PDF contains some postscript-like code mixed
in with fonts etc which has to be "converted".

So now with AirPrint we have:

Phone PDF -[no-driver]-> [...wifi...] -> AirPrint -[convert]-> BUL -[RIP]-> 
paper

Linux computer PDF -> CUPS -> [...wifi...] -> AirPrint -[convert]-> BUL 
-[RIP]-> paper

but what does the backend of CUPS have to do? Why not just
cp ~/my-file.pdf dnssd://Brother%20Printer...
if you're not bothered about queueing/scheduling etc.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[David Wright]

On Sat 12 Mar 2016 at 08:44:48 (+0100), jdd wrote:
> Le 11/03/2016 21:28, David Wright a écrit :
> 
> >You must live in a different price bracket from me.
> 
> nope. I had at least two HP5M for free ten years ago... they died
> recently. 

Well, let's assume that most people buy their equipment rather than
being given it for free.

The HP5M is solely a printer which is fine as far as it goes, but now
I need to buy a scanner, and quite possibly a fax machine, as well.
AFAICT I'd have to use it through a parallel (or serial?) interface.
This laptop has neither. You can network it with 10Base-T for a price,
but no USB connection.

I can see a refurbished one on the web for $340 (if that's the right
model) which is far more than a new AiO.

> There are ps compatible printer for cheap for years now.

So you say, but I never seem to be able to find them in the shops.
And take a typical web site. Here are the categories to refine one's
search. Are people interested in whether a printer supports PDF directly?
No:

  • NARROW BY: clear all
  • 0 Type of Printer + - clear
  □ [ ] All-in-One (23)
  □ [ ] Single-Function (14)
  □ [ ] Wide/Large Format (8)
  • 0 Output Type + - clear
  □ [ ] Black & White (12)
  □ [ ] Color (33)
  • 0 Print Technology + - clear
  □ [ ] Inkjet (5)
  □ [ ] Laser (39)
  • 0 Duplex Printing + - clear
  □ [ ] Automatic (31)
  □ [ ] Manual (13)
  • 0 Wireless Ready + - clear
  □ [ ] Wired (10)
  □ [ ] Wireless (23)
  □ [ ] Wireless Optional (5)
  • 0 Printer Connectivity + - clear
  □ [ ] USB & Network Ready (19)
  □ [ ] USB & Wireless (3)
  □ [ ] USB, Wireless, Network Ready (21)
  • 0 B PPM + - clear
[...]
  • 0 Brand + - clear
[...]
  • 0 Printer Use + - clear
  □ [ ] Home & Photo (4)
  □ [ ] Small Business (25)
  • 0 Department + - clear
  □ [ ] Printers (54)
  □ [ ] Laser Printers (8)
[...]
  • 0 Photo Capable + - clear
  □ [ ] Not Photo (23)
  □ [ ] Photo (21)
  • 0 Rating + - clear
[...]
  • 0 Deals + - clear
  □ [ ] On Promotion (21)
  • 0 Environmental + - clear
  □ [ ] Eco certified (50)
  □ [ ] Eco conscious (5)
  □ [ ] Recycled (10)
  • 0 ShopRunner + - clear
  □ [ ] ShopRunner Eligible (50)
  • 0 Printer Condition + - clear
  □ [ ] New (41)
  □ [ ] Refurbished (4)
  • 0 Supertank + - clear
  □ [ ] Not Supertank (44)
  • 0 Mobile Capability + - clear
  □ [ ] No (26)
  □ [ ] Yes (17)
  • 0 Number of Users + - clear
[...]
  • 0 Auto Restock + - clear
  □ [ ] Auto Restock Eligible (31)
  • 0 Price + - clear
[...]

So the specs of each printer have to be found and examined.
Can you give me a few current examples of the species?

> for pdf, I only have seen this on news papers, but the subject
> computer being airprint compatible must have some inside device, and
> it's not cheap.

Ditto. Brian has tried to explain, but I don't completely follow his
explanation. Not being at the cutting edge of mobile phone technology,
I don't have any experience of trying to use it, even if I had an
AirPrint-supporting printer.

> I spoke of gutenprint because I have a Canon photo thermal printer
> that prints jpeg from cards,

This is what's common. Not PDFs. And many take a variety of
stick/cards. Hardly surprising: that's what's inside the
cameras. Thank goodness one's not limited to TWAIN. Ugh.

> but not from computer (!), so need a
> driver. It was not at this time available on linux, but gutenprint
> mailing list user asked me to make some tests and could with this
> give me a solution.
> 
> the people there knows incredibly well the printers :-)

I'm sure they do. (However, they don't support my printer but luckily,
HP does.) But I don't understand the relationship between linux
printing and gutenprint. Actually I don't know much at all about
printing any more. I used to in the days of dot-matrix, having
happily written character definitions and code to rasterise and
print graphics.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Brian]

On Sat 12 Mar 2016 at 15:27:00 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Saturday 12 March 2016 15:01:58 Brian wrote:
> 
> > On Sat 12 Mar 2016 at 14:08:58 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > My Brother HL3170CDW has a wireless interface, but no clue as to its
> > > usability with airprint, mainly because I have it disabled in its
> > > own menu's and have not explored that route to moving data.
> >
> > The existence of a wireless interface on a printer has no bearing on
> > whether it supports AirPrint. Many printers have wireless interfaces
> > and do not support AirPrint.
> >
> > In addition, an AirPrint printer does not need wireless capability on
> > it; it is not a requirement. The only requirement is for the printer
> > to broadcast mDNS.
> >
> > You can see what your printer does by using the novel idea of looking
> > at its manual. Guess what? :)
> >
> Never seen it, its an exra cost thing only available to servicing dealers 
> I believe.

Specifications for your printer are not avaialable online? Brother do
not tell you what the printer does? if you cannot be bothered to look,
why should I. Is there an unbelieving emoticon?

> >   https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201311
> >
> > You are the only person in this thread to own up to having an AirPrint
> > Brother printer. That places you in an ideal position to test the
> > ideas proposed in this thread and assist the OP.
> 
> I didn't claim AirPrint, only that it could have a wlan connection IF it 
> was enabled, which it isn't.

I understood that.

But you can claim to have an Airport printer!

> > I'm interested in what
> >
> >   avahi-browse -art > discovered
> >
> > gives.
> >
> > Would you please post the output here? A minimum of a Jessie install
> > is needed for something useful.
> 
> I'm still on wheezy, 

Nothing useful to be gained from the output then.

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 12 March 2016 15:01:58 Brian wrote:

> On Sat 12 Mar 2016 at 14:08:58 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > My Brother HL3170CDW has a wireless interface, but no clue as to its
> > usability with airprint, mainly because I have it disabled in its
> > own menu's and have not explored that route to moving data.
>
> The existence of a wireless interface on a printer has no bearing on
> whether it supports AirPrint. Many printers have wireless interfaces
> and do not support AirPrint.
>
> In addition, an AirPrint printer does not need wireless capability on
> it; it is not a requirement. The only requirement is for the printer
> to broadcast mDNS.
>
> You can see what your printer does by using the novel idea of looking
> at its manual. Guess what? :)
>
Never seen it, its an exra cost thing only available to servicing dealers 
I believe.

>   https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201311
>
> You are the only person in this thread to own up to having an AirPrint
> Brother printer. That places you in an ideal position to test the
> ideas proposed in this thread and assist the OP.

I didn't claim AirPrint, only that it could have a wlan connection IF it 
was enabled, which it isn't.

> I'm interested in what
>
>   avahi-browse -art > discovered
>
> gives.
>
> Would you please post the output here? A minimum of a Jessie install
> is needed for something useful.

I'm still on wheezy, but that output is likely north of 200k.  It finds 
an ipv6 address for a lot of stuff here, but ipv6 is disabled. Or is in 
the configs I use.

Probably 2 dozen stanza's of stuff on this printer, another dozen or so 
on a $110 B laser in the basement, and at least that many for an Epson 
NX515 whose printer died from clogged nozzles less than a month after I 
bought it, but its scanner works well. How avahi found it when its not 
even turned on is beyond me unless turning it off is not a full 
powerdown, or the USB cable is powering its interface.  Not to mention 
at least 50 other devices each a separate listing according to the 
protocol avahi queries I guess.  Way too big to post to a mailing list 
w/o an hours editing to trim it down to just this one printer. All the 
printers are shared to 4 other machines, and avahi finds it connected to 
them all, with every protocol in its basket. So I'm not going to inflict 
the list with that much trash data.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Brian]

On Sat 12 Mar 2016 at 17:01:36 -0300, Renaud OLGIATI wrote:

> On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 19:18:25 +
> Brian  wrote:
> 
> > A big spoon for stirring and continuing to spread this view would be
> > more suitable. :)
> > 
> > Debian is not about freedom of choice. Can this be seen in the Social
> > Contract?
> 
> You are the one stirring thing: I never mentioned Debian; only Linux...

We are both on a Debian mailing list. It takes two to tango.

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Ron]

On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 19:18:25 +
Brian  wrote:

> > > > And the Everything Free brigade is so pleasant to anyone who wants
> > > > to use binary blobs??  

> > > Because, it seems, for some people "Linux is about freedom of choice"
> > > means "you are free to accept MY choices, and no other".

> > Give this man a bigger nail, he hits this one very well indeed. :)  

> A big spoon for stirring and continuing to spread this view would be
> more suitable. :)
> 
> Debian is not about freedom of choice. Can this be seen in the Social
> Contract?

You are the one stirring thing: I never mentioned Debian; only Linux...
 
Cheers,
 
Ron.
-- 
 Never get into an argument with someone who buys ink by the barrel.

   -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --
 

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Brian]

On Sat 12 Mar 2016 at 14:08:58 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:

> My Brother HL3170CDW has a wireless interface, but no clue as to its 
> usability with airprint, mainly because I have it disabled in its own 
> menu's and have not explored that route to moving data.

The existence of a wireless interface on a printer has no bearing on
whether it supports AirPrint. Many printers have wireless interfaces
and do not support AirPrint.

In addition, an AirPrint printer does not need wireless capability on
it; it is not a requirement. The only requirement is for the printer
to broadcast mDNS.

You can see what your printer does by using the novel idea of looking
at its manual. Guess what? :)

  https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201311

You are the only person in this thread to own up to having an AirPrint
Brother printer. That places you in an ideal position to test the ideas
proposed in this thread and assist the OP.

I'm interested in what

  avahi-browse -art > discovered

gives.

Would you please post the output here? A minimum of a Jessie install is
needed for something useful.

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 12 March 2016 14:18:25 Brian wrote:

> On Sat 12 Mar 2016 at 13:47:06 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Saturday 12 March 2016 08:21:14 Renaud  OLGIATI wrote:
> > > On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 12:46:08 +
> > >
> > > Lisi Reisz  wrote:
> > > > And the Everything Free brigade is so pleasant to anyone who
> > > > wants to use binary blobs??
> > >
> > > Because, it seems, for some people "Linux is about freedom of
> > > choice" means "you are free to accept MY choices, and no other".
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Ron.
> >
> > Give this man a bigger nail, he hits this one very well indeed. :)
>
> A big spoon for stirring and continuing to spread this view would be
> more suitable. :)

I do believe you are correct, some aplause needed here.
>
> Debian is not about freedom of choice. Can this be seen in the Social
> Contract?

DNK :( Haven't read it recently enough.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Lisi Reisz]

On Saturday 12 March 2016 19:13:20 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Saturday 12 March 2016 18:22:11 Brian wrote:
> > > It reminds me of the poking at vegetarians "now are snails
> > >
> > > > vegetables or not?".

Sorry, Brian.  Of course you didn't say that.  It is one of the snags of KMail 
that it sometimes misattributes the quote - and I don't always remember to 
check. :-(

Lisi

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Brian]

On Sat 12 Mar 2016 at 13:47:06 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Saturday 12 March 2016 08:21:14 Renaud  OLGIATI wrote:
> 
> > On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 12:46:08 +
> >
> > Lisi Reisz  wrote:
> > > And the Everything Free brigade is so pleasant to anyone who wants
> > > to use binary blobs??
> >
> > Because, it seems, for some people "Linux is about freedom of choice"
> > means "you are free to accept MY choices, and no other".
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Ron.
> 
> Give this man a bigger nail, he hits this one very well indeed. :)

A big spoon for stirring and continuing to spread this view would be
more suitable. :)

Debian is not about freedom of choice. Can this be seen in the Social
Contract?

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 12 March 2016 13:30:45 Lisi Reisz wrote:

> On Saturday 12 March 2016 18:22:11 Brian wrote:
> > It reminds me of the poking at vegetarians "now are snails
> >
> > > vegetables or not?".
>
> Did anyone ever really claim that snails are vegetables???  I find
> that hard to believe!
>
> Lisi

Sounds like somebody sick of beans for their vegan diets protein.

One of the prices one pays for being a vegan I guess.  Me, I have one of 
those PETA (People Eating Tasty Animals) T Shirts.  Shrug. :)

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 12 March 2016 13:22:11 Brian wrote:

> On Sat 12 Mar 2016 at 08:50:49 +0100, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > So. Now I'll bite off my tongue and take my ball with me. I'm off
> > this thread. I can't bear the overall animosity and poking of
> > fun at those who try to put some effort into avoiding binary
> > blobs. It reminds me of the poking at vegetarians "now are snails
> > vegetables or not?". I thought I left that behind in my teens.
>
> Don't you think there has been a very positive aspect to this thread?
> Not just for Jarle Aase's immediate needs but also for present and
> future readers of it.
>
> Misconceptions have been cleared up, the OP knows now why he couldn't
> print and various byways have been explored. Even the binary blob
> issue was treated with robust respect. Of course, people are entitled
> to persue freeness and Jarl Aase did explain his position and had it
> acknowledged. Others couldn't quite accept why someone should want to
> turn down an easy route to printing with proprietary software. That's
> all part of life's rich pattern.
>
> Printing was, of course, the objective. There is a solution on the
> table which fits the desire for freeness. Jarl Aase appears to be the
> only participant in this thread who has access to an AirPrint printer.

My Brother HL3170CDW has a wireless interface, but no clue as to its 
usability with airprint, mainly because I have it disabled in its own 
menu's and have not explored that route to moving data.

And yes, my router with a DD-WRT reflash CAN do WLAN, but enabling that 
gives the whole world driveby access to my home 4 or 5 machine network 
unless I setup a different network just for the printer. So I have, 
having been attacked via that path, for security reasons, disabled ALL 
the WLAN style wireless.  Cat5E all over the place though.

One piece, swinging in the wind between the house and a small shop 
building nominally 40 feet away with 2 or 3 computers running smallish 
CNC controlled machines in it, and has been swinging in the wind for a 
decade & change now, still works fine right now.  And I've no clue why, 
it stood up to a measured 112mph wind in 2010 that cost me 4 trees and 
most of my fencing and part of the roof, siding and gutters of this 
house.  But the cat5 survived.

> Considering the interest which has been shown in his problem  some
> feedback would be useful to have. I hope we haven't lost another ball.
> :)


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 12 March 2016 08:21:14 Renaud  OLGIATI wrote:

> On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 12:46:08 +
>
> Lisi Reisz  wrote:
> > And the Everything Free brigade is so pleasant to anyone who wants
> > to use binary blobs??
>
> Because, it seems, for some people "Linux is about freedom of choice"
> means "you are free to accept MY choices, and no other".
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ron.

Give this man a bigger nail, he hits this one very well indeed. :)


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 12 March 2016 07:46:08 Lisi Reisz wrote:

> On Saturday 12 March 2016 07:50:49 to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > So. Now I'll bite off my tongue and take my ball with me. I'm off
> > this thread. I can't bear the overall animosity and poking of
> > fun at those who try to put some effort into avoiding binary
> > blobs. It reminds me of the poking at vegetarians "now are snails
> > vegetables or not?". I thought I left that behind in my teens.
>
> And the Everything Free brigade is so pleasant to anyone who wants to
> use binary blobs??  I was nearly lynched for wanting to use something
> from the non-free repository.
>
> Why can't we all live and let live?  And all I have seen in this
> thread is people not comprehending.  No-one being unpleasant and
> castigating.
>
> I have a ball if anyone would like it. ;-)
>
> Lisi

I've been in that box, watching them tie knots on ropes too.  But at the 
end of the day, I only outlaw one driver blob, the nvidia. It locks out 
the IRQ's for extended periods of time and can, because of that, do 
serious damage to parts being CNC machined.  The nouveau driver doesn't 
resort to that, and works fine, for what I want to do.  So for me, the 
nvidia driver and its being married to a specific kernel, causes way 
more problems than it solves.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Lisi Reisz]

On Saturday 12 March 2016 18:22:11 Brian wrote:
> It reminds me of the poking at vegetarians "now are snails
>
> > vegetables or not?".

Did anyone ever really claim that snails are vegetables???  I find that hard 
to believe!

Lisi

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Brian]

On Sat 12 Mar 2016 at 08:50:49 +0100, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

> So. Now I'll bite off my tongue and take my ball with me. I'm off
> this thread. I can't bear the overall animosity and poking of
> fun at those who try to put some effort into avoiding binary
> blobs. It reminds me of the poking at vegetarians "now are snails
> vegetables or not?". I thought I left that behind in my teens.

Don't you think there has been a very positive aspect to this thread?
Not just for Jarle Aase's immediate needs but also for present and
future readers of it.

Misconceptions have been cleared up, the OP knows now why he couldn't
print and various byways have been explored. Even the binary blob issue
was treated with robust respect. Of course, people are entitled to
persue freeness and Jarl Aase did explain his position and had it
acknowledged. Others couldn't quite accept why someone should want to
turn down an easy route to printing with proprietary software. That's
all part of life's rich pattern.

Printing was, of course, the objective. There is a solution on the table
which fits the desire for freeness. Jarl Aase appears to be the only
participant in this thread who has access to an AirPrint printer.
Considering the interest which has been shown in his problem  some
feedback would be useful to have. I hope we haven't lost another ball. :)

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Ron]

On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 12:46:08 +
Lisi Reisz  wrote:

> And the Everything Free brigade is so pleasant to anyone who wants to use 
> binary blobs?? 

Because, it seems, for some people "Linux is about freedom of choice" means 
"you are free to accept MY choices, and no other".
 
Cheers,
 
Ron.
-- 
   Let us consider that arbitrary power has seldom
  or never been introduced into any country at once
It must be introduced by slow degrees,
 and as it were step by step,
  lest the people see its approach.
---Lord Chesterfield

   -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --
 

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Brian]

On Sat 12 Mar 2016 at 14:00:00 +0100, jdd wrote:

> Le 12/03/2016 13:22, Brian a écrit :
> 
> >on the printer. AirPrint uses exactly the same printer as CUPS but
> >the conversion done by brother_lpdwrapper_mfcj5720dw has to be on
> >the printer in firmware. Then the RIP takes over. The RIP is not
> >converting PDF to raster format. There is no PDF interpreter for
> >AirPrint to use.
> 
> I was understanding than one have to send pdf to airprint, but this article
> is all what I know of it

AirPrint supports PDF, JPEG and URF as PDLs. URF is obligatory. PDF is
the PDL of choice if the device supports it.

So, you do not *have* to send PDF to Airprint but is very common for
that to happen.

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Andrew McGlashan]

On 12/03/2016 11:32 PM, deloptes wrote:
> IMO it is not likely that one adds a spy software on such low cost device -
> what for? If you want to print confidentail information - there are other
> types of printers and setups you could do so.

Well, it doesn't need to have it's own /spyware/  it might be badly
setup and perhaps be taken over by something smarter.  This whole IoT is
very dangerous -- talk of putting them all on their own network is not
enough as each can attack each other and any of them can try to
compromise the /other/ network via jumping on to the network it is not
supposed to know about.

And yes, that might be extreme, but people are too trusting of junk that
is polluting this world just to make another dollar quickly; junk that
isn't secure to start with and too cheap to ever consider that to change.

A.

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[jdd]

Le 12/03/2016 13:22, Brian a écrit :


on the printer. AirPrint uses exactly the same printer as CUPS but
the conversion done by brother_lpdwrapper_mfcj5720dw has to be on
the printer in firmware. Then the RIP takes over. The RIP is not
converting PDF to raster format. There is no PDF interpreter for
AirPrint to use.


I was understanding than one have to send pdf to airprint, but this 
article is all what I know of it


jdd

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Lisi Reisz]

On Saturday 12 March 2016 07:50:49 to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> So. Now I'll bite off my tongue and take my ball with me. I'm off
> this thread. I can't bear the overall animosity and poking of
> fun at those who try to put some effort into avoiding binary
> blobs. It reminds me of the poking at vegetarians "now are snails
> vegetables or not?". I thought I left that behind in my teens.

And the Everything Free brigade is so pleasant to anyone who wants to use 
binary blobs??  I was nearly lynched for wanting to use something from the 
non-free repository.

Why can't we all live and let live?  And all I have seen in this thread is 
people not comprehending.  No-one being unpleasant and castigating.

I have a ball if anyone would like it. ;-)

Lisi

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[deloptes]

to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

> So. Now I'll bite off my tongue and take my ball with me. I'm off
> this thread. I can't bear the overall animosity and poking of
> fun at those who try to put some effort into avoiding binary
> blobs. It reminds me of the poking at vegetarians "now are snails
> vegetables or not?". I thought I left that behind in my teens.

And I left time wasting in my teens.

It is not clear why OP would not install the vendor deb files. If s/he wants
to gain security, he could do it in a different way and still use the
printer. Example old Raspberry costs ~30-40$ and voila you have your
dedicated printer with no network.

Never mind - I wish him/her luck and perhaps s/he will update us later on
the progress and findings.

IMO it is not likely that one adds a spy software on such low cost device -
what for? If you want to print confidentail information - there are other
types of printers and setups you could do so.

Doing some more usable things, could be more beneficial to him/her. Anyway
this is a personal choice, but the effort seems silly, so we (I think I am
not the only one) have spoken and warned him/her.

regards

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Brian]

On Sat 12 Mar 2016 at 12:15:38 +0100, jdd wrote:

> Le 12/03/2016 10:56, Brian a écrit :
> 
> >The PDL of choice for AirPrint capable devices is PDF. A PDF document
> 
> >The important word is "direct". The MFC-J5720DW doesn't have a  PDF
> >interpreter. Hence the silence.
> 
> it have one for airprint, but may be this one is only available for aiprint,
> not for usb (ridiculous, I know, but we see such thing often)

It has been said in this thread that "Printers are dark and muddy";
there is no need to muddy their operation further, as is done here.

With a CUPS installation the brother_lpdwrapper_mfcj5720dw filter
converts PDF into BUL and sends the data to a RIP (an interpreter)
on the printer. AirPrint uses exactly the same printer as CUPS but
the conversion done by brother_lpdwrapper_mfcj5720dw has to be on
the printer in firmware. Then the RIP takes over. The RIP is not
converting PDF to raster format. There is no PDF interpreter for
AirPrint to use.

> http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/Features/AirPrint

Listing 2 on that page isn't needed with Debian CUPS.

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 12 March 2016 02:50:49 to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 05:02:49PM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > Yup, that they do.  They also cost around 35,000 USD to put it on
> > YOUR
>
> Now you're exaggerating.

No I am not. We (the tv station where I spent my last 18 working year at 
as the Chief Engineer) needed another copier/printer about 15 years back 
as we were overwhelming the $17,000 model, people standing around 
waiting their turn, and the local office supply business sold us a 
Minolta that could, if you fed it the right supplies, even bind a book 
for you, and yes it was $35k at the time, plus of course an annual 
maintenance contract that was for same day service. It had everything 
but a coffee spigot on it.

> We have an (oldish) Brother "laser" networked 
> printer which was quite affordable and understands pretty well PS
> (well, officially it's "brotherscript" -- really!) but it works nicely
> either from the whole CUPS gorilla or from a more traditional lprng
> installation.
>
> No blobs, no frills. Only this stupid 99.9% compatible PS ripoff is
> sometimes annoying, I guess if they'd left the (official or
> inofficial) copy of Ghostscript just alone instead of tweaking it,
> it'd be better.
>
> It is, fwiw a Brother HL 5170DN. Would I recommend it? Well, the
> mechanical quality is what you'd expect for the price. It tends to
> "decorate" its first pages with some creases. It is very low on
> mem, and its RIP isn't really fast. But it has done its job for
> well over seven years now.

Much the same can be said for the HL3170CDW I have, its an entry level 
color laser.  Beginning to have some smudge and streak troubles, but it 
has nearly 4000 pages thru it. And I just found it needs a full, pull 
the line cord out, powerdown reset to restore normal operation, a panel 
switch reboot doesn't cut it.  It also needs a firmware update, but they 
have about 5 of them, each customised for the windows machine it takes 
to run the updater.  But to find a winderz machine to run the updater 
isn't possible here as there aren't any here. 100% linux here. I've not 
tried our dfu utilities to see if that could work, and I'm not sure I 
could strip out the actual update from their windows packages.

> So. Now I'll bite off my tongue and take my ball with me. I'm off
> this thread. I can't bear the overall animosity and poking of
> fun at those who try to put some effort into avoiding binary
> blobs. It reminds me of the poking at vegetarians "now are snails
> vegetables or not?". I thought I left that behind in my teens.

I very faintly recall my teen years, we were just finished with fighting 
WW=II then.

> -- t


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[jdd]

Le 12/03/2016 10:56, Brian a écrit :


The PDL of choice for AirPrint capable devices is PDF. A PDF document



The important word is "direct". The MFC-J5720DW doesn't have a  PDF
interpreter. Hence the silence.



it have one for airprint, but may be this one is only available for 
aiprint, not for usb (ridiculous, I know, but we see such thing often)


http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/Features/AirPrint

any printer (any hardware?) needs software to make something, be it on 
rom (eprom or flash memory) or driver (the infamous "windows printers").


What the more near to freedom?? no idea.

jdd

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Brian]

On Fri 11 Mar 2016 at 12:39:58 -0600, David Wright wrote:

> On Fri 11 Mar 2016 at 17:48:01 (+), Brian wrote:
> > 
> > The AirPrint facility handles a PDF (it has to).
> 
> I don't understand this statement. If a printer doesn't have a PS
> interpreter (or emulation thereof), are you saying that it acquires
> one by virtue of supporting AirPrint?

No. (I think you meant PDF).

The PDL of choice for AirPrint capable devices is PDF. A PDF document
sent to an Airprint capable printer is converted to BUL (the Brother
Unknown Language) as it would be if it was processed on a workstation by
CUPS.

Note that this is a conversion, not an interpretation. An interpreter
produces a raster image and this happens later when the RIP deals with
BUL.

> > Whether the printer
> > handles direct PDF printing is questionable. But it's a decent idea to
> > try.
> 
> It would seem odd to support PDF printing and be silent on the matter
> in the printer's literature, eg 
> www.printerbase.co.uk/spec/pdf/brother-mfcj5720dw.pdf
> http://support.brother.com/g/b/spec.aspx?c=eu_ot=en=mfcj5720dw_us_eu_as

The important word is "direct". The MFC-J5720DW doesn't have a  PDF
interpreter. Hence the silence.

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[jdd]

Le 12/03/2016 08:50, to...@tuxteam.de a écrit :


So. Now I'll bite off my tongue and take my ball with me. I'm off
this thread. I can't bear the overall animosity and poking of
fun at those who try to put some effort into avoiding binary
blobs.


no, not for me.

there are two parts: having a hardware that just works, and for this 
Brother is better than many other makes, and getting free of privative 
software, which is better but harder.


By the way it's a bit of a dead way: even RMS do not ask for free 
BIOS... when he could (there is work on the subject).


I remember the time where every printer was sold with a manual stating 
what codes was giving what.


So working toward a free driver is a good idea, but this have to be done 
with knowledgeable people, probably (no offense!) not to be found here 
but in gutenprint mailing list


http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/

they list some brother mfc printers, so may be yours is not so far from 
support, if you help


Brother MFC-6550MC  brother-mfc-6550mc  Brother-MFC-6550MC  
Brother MFC-8300brother-mfc-8300Brother-MFC-8300
Brother MFC-9500brother-mfc-9500Brother-MFC-9500
Brother MFC-9600brother-mfc-9600Brother-MFC-9600

(on the printer list, the names are not by alphabetic order)

ask them (and report here, please :-)

thanks
jdd

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 05:02:49PM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:

[...]

> Yup, that they do.  They also cost around 35,000 USD to put it on YOUR 

Now you're exaggerating. We have an (oldish) Brother "laser" networked
printer which was quite affordable and understands pretty well PS (well,
officially it's "brotherscript" -- really!) but it works nicely either
from the whole CUPS gorilla or from a more traditional lprng installation.

No blobs, no frills. Only this stupid 99.9% compatible PS ripoff is
sometimes annoying, I guess if they'd left the (official or inofficial)
copy of Ghostscript just alone instead of tweaking it, it'd be better.

It is, fwiw a Brother HL 5170DN. Would I recommend it? Well, the
mechanical quality is what you'd expect for the price. It tends to
"decorate" its first pages with some creases. It is very low on
mem, and its RIP isn't really fast. But it has done its job for
well over seven years now.

So. Now I'll bite off my tongue and take my ball with me. I'm off
this thread. I can't bear the overall animosity and poking of
fun at those who try to put some effort into avoiding binary
blobs. It reminds me of the poking at vegetarians "now are snails
vegetables or not?". I thought I left that behind in my teens.

- -- t
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAlbjylkACgkQBcgs9XrR2kaUYgCfQjJTQN2qNsPPKhE0VMC0xUXu
n5oAn2pw1i+OQV8Z1KsbPe7XnkweQ9Wh
=CQyw
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[jdd]

Le 11/03/2016 21:28, David Wright a écrit :


You must live in a different price bracket from me.


nope. I had at least two HP5M for free ten years ago... they died 
recently. There are ps compatible printer for cheap for years now.


for pdf, I only have seen this on news papers, but the subject computer 
being airprint compatible must have some inside device, and it's not cheap.


I spoke of gutenprint because I have a Canon photo thermal printer that 
prints jpeg from cards, but not from computer (!), so need a driver. It 
was not at this time available on linux, but gutenprint mailing list 
user asked me to make some tests and could with this give me a solution.


the people there knows incredibly well the printers :-)

and, by the way, if we use proprietary hardware, and proprietary 
BIOS/UEFI, why not proprietary drivers...


jdd

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 11 March 2016 15:28:57 David Wright wrote:

> On Fri 11 Mar 2016 at 20:11:51 (+0100), jdd wrote:
> > Le 11/03/2016 19:39, David Wright a écrit :
> > >It would seem odd to support PDF printing and be silent on the
> > > matter in the printer's literature, eg
> > > www.printerbase.co.uk/spec/pdf/brother-mfcj5720dw.pdf
> >
> > says
> >
> > Supporting:
> >
> > JPEG, BMP, PDF, TIFF, PNG
> >
> >
> > I read "PDF".
>
> Yes, I too can read four strings "PDF". On page two they are under the
> heading "Colour Scanner". On page three, they are (ambiguously) under
> the section "PhotoCapture Centre" / "Scan to card". Lots of cheap
> all-in-one scanners will do this. Their output files appear to be a
> few lines of PDF wrapping an image, viz.
>
> %PDF-1.3
> % [4 non-ASCII chars snipped]
> 3 0 obj
> << /Type /XObject
> /Subtype /Image
> /Width 2480
> /Height 3504
> /BitsPerComponent 1
> /Length 54844
> /ColorSpace /DeviceGray
> /Filter /CCITTFaxDecode
> /DecodeParms
> << /K -1 /Rows 3504 /Columns 2480 /BlackIs1 false >>
>
> stream
>
> > It seems than most printers now support natively pdf to be able to
> > print from card (without any interface) when they where supporting
> > ps before.
>
> You must live in a different price bracket from me. When I worked in
> a university, all the (Apple) laser printers had genuine PS
> interpreters inside. Nothing I've ever owned has. They all print
> _JPEGs_ directly because that's what ordinary people want to print:
> photographs, not office documents.
>
> The printers which I've used since, those that can print raw PDF
> files, can do that directly from a stick; they take paper from half a
> dozen trays and put the output in little collated stacks. They also
> stand on the floor!
>
> Cheers,
> David.

Yup, that they do.  They also cost around 35,000 USD to put it on YOUR 
floor. And the sw in the $35,000 Minolta dies on about page 102 when 
trying to print a pdf book.  And Minolta's factory techs couldn't fix 
it, so I wound up using a pdf maker, feeding it 100 pages at a time, and 
fed that to the Minolta.  Heck of a way to run a train.

To compare, running the Brother drivers into an HL-3170CDW here, a low 
end color laser I bought for something over $400 USD 3 years ago, I have 
fed it several pdf's over 500 pages, biggest pdf was 674 pages, which it 
printed in duplex mode slowly because turning the paper over takes 
longer than print one side, and the only problem was a couple of paper 
jams.  And guess what?  When it jams, and you clear the jam, it reprints 
both sides of the damaged sheet without any prompting.  What more could 
I ask? Brighter colors on normal $8 a ream paper.  But thats it.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 11 March 2016 14:11:51 jdd wrote:

> Le 11/03/2016 19:39, David Wright a écrit :
> > It would seem odd to support PDF printing and be silent on the
> > matter in the printer's literature, eg
> > www.printerbase.co.uk/spec/pdf/brother-mfcj5720dw.pdf
>
> says
>
> Supporting:
>
> JPEG, BMP, PDF, TIFF, PNG
>
>
> I read "PDF".
>
> It seems than most printers now support natively pdf to be able to
> print from card (without any interface) when they where supporting ps
> before.
>
> but there are so many versions...
>
> anyway if one wants to have full support, better write on the
> gutenprint mailing list, where people do really know what a printer is
> (much better than me)
>
> jdd

And at this point, that is the best possible advice, those are the guys 
that KNOW about printers.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 11 March 2016 12:50:32 Brian wrote:

> On Fri 11 Mar 2016 at 15:30:13 +0100, Hans wrote:
> > as far as I know you need the packages from the Brother site. As
> > soon you got them installed, start a browser and go to
> > http://localhost:631
> >
> > Then there should a gui start, where you can configure your printer.
>
> This is exactly what the OP has said he wants to avoid doing.

As a happy user of two Brother printers, using Brothers drivers, the OP 
should be well aware that he will spend weeks of time poking at just one 
printer, to come up with a driver that does half of what the Brother 
driver can do, and quite likely poorer, and slower than the Brother 
driver. Principles I guess are nice when you step into the voting booth, 
but not when following them on nothing more than a rumor he heard from 
somebody with a bad taste for Brother, makes zero sense.  The ones I am 
using Just Work(TM).

I am of the opinion that this thread has run its coarse as he has refused 
to do the sensible thing here, and the refusal was stated up front.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[David Wright]

On Fri 11 Mar 2016 at 20:11:51 (+0100), jdd wrote:
> Le 11/03/2016 19:39, David Wright a écrit :
> 
> >It would seem odd to support PDF printing and be silent on the matter
> >in the printer's literature, eg 
> >www.printerbase.co.uk/spec/pdf/brother-mfcj5720dw.pdf
> 
> says
> 
> Supporting:
> 
> JPEG, BMP, PDF, TIFF, PNG
> 
> 
> I read "PDF".

Yes, I too can read four strings "PDF". On page two they are under the
heading "Colour Scanner". On page three, they are (ambiguously) under
the section "PhotoCapture Centre" / "Scan to card". Lots of cheap
all-in-one scanners will do this. Their output files appear to be a
few lines of PDF wrapping an image, viz.

%PDF-1.3
% [4 non-ASCII chars snipped]
3 0 obj
<< /Type /XObject
/Subtype /Image
/Width 2480
/Height 3504
/BitsPerComponent 1
/Length 54844
/ColorSpace /DeviceGray
/Filter /CCITTFaxDecode
/DecodeParms
<< /K -1 /Rows 3504 /Columns 2480 /BlackIs1 false >>
>>
stream

> It seems than most printers now support natively pdf to be able to
> print from card (without any interface) when they where supporting
> ps before.

You must live in a different price bracket from me. When I worked in
a university, all the (Apple) laser printers had genuine PS
interpreters inside. Nothing I've ever owned has. They all print
_JPEGs_ directly because that's what ordinary people want to print:
photographs, not office documents.

The printers which I've used since, those that can print raw PDF files,
can do that directly from a stick; they take paper from half a dozen
trays and put the output in little collated stacks. They also stand
on the floor!

Cheers,
David.

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[jdd]

Le 11/03/2016 19:39, David Wright a écrit :


It would seem odd to support PDF printing and be silent on the matter
in the printer's literature, eg 
www.printerbase.co.uk/spec/pdf/brother-mfcj5720dw.pdf


says

Supporting:

JPEG, BMP, PDF, TIFF, PNG


I read "PDF".

It seems than most printers now support natively pdf to be able to print 
from card (without any interface) when they where supporting ps before.


but there are so many versions...

anyway if one wants to have full support, better write on the gutenprint 
mailing list, where people do really know what a printer is (much better 
than me)


jdd

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[David Wright]

On Fri 11 Mar 2016 at 17:48:01 (+), Brian wrote:
> On Fri 11 Mar 2016 at 15:24:07 +0100, jdd wrote:
> 
> > Le 11/03/2016 14:00, Brian a écrit :
> > 
> > >2. You are very uneasy about having a proprietary driver for printing on
> > >your machine, so are seeking a way not to use it and have only standard
> > >Debian/Linux drivers.
> > 
> > this printer seems to be recent and flexible. Chance is he may be a pdf
> > printer.
> > 
> > Did you try to send him a pdf without any filter? or try printing a pdf from
> > a ssd card?
> 
> The AirPrint facility handles a PDF (it has to).

I don't understand this statement. If a printer doesn't have a PS
interpreter (or emulation thereof), are you saying that it acquires
one by virtue of supporting AirPrint?

> Whether the printer
> handles direct PDF printing is questionable. But it's a decent idea to
> try.

It would seem odd to support PDF printing and be silent on the matter
in the printer's literature, eg 
www.printerbase.co.uk/spec/pdf/brother-mfcj5720dw.pdf
http://support.brother.com/g/b/spec.aspx?c=eu_ot=en=mfcj5720dw_us_eu_as

Cheers,
David.

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Brian]

On Fri 11 Mar 2016 at 15:30:13 +0100, Hans wrote:

> as far as I know you need the packages from the Brother site. As soon you got 
> them installed, start a browser and go to http://localhost:631
> 
> Then there should a gui start, where you can configure your printer.

This is exactly what the OP has said he wants to avoid doing.

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Brian]

On Fri 11 Mar 2016 at 15:24:07 +0100, jdd wrote:

> Le 11/03/2016 14:00, Brian a écrit :
> 
> >2. You are very uneasy about having a proprietary driver for printing on
> >your machine, so are seeking a way not to use it and have only standard
> >Debian/Linux drivers.
> 
> this printer seems to be recent and flexible. Chance is he may be a pdf
> printer.
> 
> Did you try to send him a pdf without any filter? or try printing a pdf from
> a ssd card?

The AirPrint facility handles a PDF (it has to). Whether the printer
handles direct PDF printing is questionable. But it's a decent idea to
try.

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Brian]

On Fri 11 Mar 2016 at 11:14:34 +0100, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 11:12:57AM +0100, deloptes wrote:
> > to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > 
> > > On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 08:18:01PM +0100, deloptes wrote:
> > > 
> > > [...]
> > > 
> > >> You must have a lot of time boy, you must be lucky!
> > >> 
> > >> Most of us take the shortest path possible.
> > > 
> > > If all did like that you wouldn't have Debian (this goes to Brian too).
> > 
> > No it is pragmatics!
> 
> Call it whatever you like. I'm out of this discussion.

Are you taking your ball with you? :)

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Lisi Reisz]

On Wednesday 09 March 2016 13:16:20 Jarle Aase wrote:
> Den 09. mars 2016 14:27, skrev Brian:
> > In another mail Jarle Aase said: > I think this printer supports both
> > pcl and postscript. Faint alarm bells sounded in my head - inkjet,
> > inkjet, inkjet. I ignored the warning; after all he was surely in
> > possession of a manual and would know the printer capabilities. The
> > CUPS filter chain produces a file to be sent to the printer which is
> > identified as "data", not PostScript or PCL. Installing the two
> > Brother .deb files (a five minute job) seems to be the only way for
> > printing to take place.
>
> My plan is to install the Brother drivers in a virtual machine. When
> that works, I can use wireshark to see what's actually being sent to the
> printer, and decide if I want to do something to make it work on the
> "real" machine.

I have been reading this thread a bit at a time.  I am bemused.  Why, if you 
want life simple, and Free, etc., go for an AIO, which are notoriously 
troublesome?  Why not go for a simple Brother laser printer?  (If you want 
Brother.)

Lisi

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Hans]

Hi Brian.

as far as I know you need the packages from the Brother site. As soon you got 
them installed, start a browser and go to http://localhost:631

Then there should a gui start, where you can configure your printer.

Good luck!

Hans 

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[jdd]

Le 11/03/2016 14:00, Brian a écrit :


2. You are very uneasy about having a proprietary driver for printing on
your machine, so are seeking a way not to use it and have only standard
Debian/Linux drivers.


this printer seems to be recent and flexible. Chance is he may be a pdf 
printer.


Did you try to send him a pdf without any filter? or try printing a pdf 
from a ssd card?


sorry if it was already proposed, I couldn't read all the thread

jdd

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Brian]

On Wed 09 Mar 2016 at 15:16:20 +0200, Jarle Aase wrote:

> My plan is to install the Brother drivers in a virtual machine. When that
> works, I can use wireshark to see what's actually being sent to the printer,
> and decide if I want to do something to make it work on the "real" machine.

Let's take a step back and examine the issue.

1. You have a Brother printer which uses a non-free driver. Initially
   you took a wrong step and could not print. Knowing now that two .debs
   need to be installed the least you could do is install them. I'd
   suggest using the USB connection to avoid having to complicate
   matters with having to think about network connections. The .debs are
   set up to use a USB connection anyway. The .debs can be purged after
   printing has been tested to work with them.

   Can you print now?

2. You are very uneasy about having a proprietary driver for printing on
   your machine, so are seeking a way not to use it and have only standard  
 
   Debian/Linux drivers. (For unknown reasons you have no such problem
   with a proprietary driver for scanning. That seems a little perverse
   but we'll go along with).

3. AirPrint on the printer has been mentioned a couple of times but has
   not resulted in any reaction from you. Is there some reason you would
   not want to use the facility? It is the only way to avoid having a
   proprietary driver on your machine and be able to print.

4. You can examine the printer's Bonjour broadcasts with avahi-browse;
   it is in the avahi-utils package and the command to use is

 avahi-browse -art

   It would be useful for us to see what you see so please would you do

 avahi-browse -art > discovered

   and attach a gzipped discovered to your next mail here. We can then
   go from there.

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 11:12:57AM +0100, deloptes wrote:
> to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> 
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > Hash: SHA1
> > 
> > On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 08:18:01PM +0100, deloptes wrote:
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> >> You must have a lot of time boy, you must be lucky!
> >> 
> >> Most of us take the shortest path possible.
> > 
> > If all did like that you wouldn't have Debian (this goes to Brian too).
> 
> No it is pragmatics!

Call it whatever you like. I'm out of this discussion.
- -- t
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)

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=LjHR
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[deloptes]

to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 08:18:01PM +0100, deloptes wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
>> You must have a lot of time boy, you must be lucky!
>> 
>> Most of us take the shortest path possible.
> 
> If all did like that you wouldn't have Debian (this goes to Brian too).

No it is pragmatics!
And a lot of people waste time in vain - including me in the past. 

In the present situation we do not know what is the context and why OP is
trying to do it this way.
Some concerns regarding binaries was raised - but why in first place you by
Brother device? And in this context - Do you think Linux is secure enough?

Anyway - everyone is free to do what s/he wants. Some people need more time
to get smarter. For me it was 32y.

regards

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 08:18:01PM +0100, deloptes wrote:

[...]

> You must have a lot of time boy, you must be lucky!
> 
> Most of us take the shortest path possible.

If all did like that you wouldn't have Debian (this goes to Brian too).

- -- t
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)

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42YAnR4lGe1p1jPjvF591SeLfviAGFsg
=K/F3
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[deloptes]

Jarle Aase wrote:

> 
> Den 09. mars 2016 14:27, skrev Brian:
>> In another mail Jarle Aase said: > I think this printer supports both
>> pcl and postscript. Faint alarm bells sounded in my head - inkjet,
>> inkjet, inkjet. I ignored the warning; after all he was surely in
>> possession of a manual and would know the printer capabilities. The
>> CUPS filter chain produces a file to be sent to the printer which is
>> identified as "data", not PostScript or PCL. Installing the two
>> Brother .deb files (a five minute job) seems to be the only way for
>> printing to take place.
> 
> My plan is to install the Brother drivers in a virtual machine. When
> that works, I can use wireshark to see what's actually being sent to the
> printer, and decide if I want to do something to make it work on the
> "real" machine.
> 
> Jarle

You must have a lot of time boy, you must be lucky!

Most of us take the shortest path possible.

regards

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Brian]

On Wed 09 Mar 2016 at 15:16:20 +0200, Jarle Aase wrote:

> 
> Den 09. mars 2016 14:27, skrev Brian:
> >In another mail Jarle Aase said: > I think this printer supports both pcl
> >and postscript. Faint alarm bells sounded in my head - inkjet, inkjet,
> >inkjet. I ignored the warning; after all he was surely in possession of a
> >manual and would know the printer capabilities. The CUPS filter chain
> >produces a file to be sent to the printer which is identified as "data",
> >not PostScript or PCL. Installing the two Brother .deb files (a five
> >minute job) seems to be the only way for printing to take place.
> 
> My plan is to install the Brother drivers in a virtual machine. When that
> works, I can use wireshark to see what's actually being sent to the printer,
> and decide if I want to do something to make it work on the "real" machine.
> Jarle

Did you go through all this to set up scanning on the device? Of course
you didn't.

So why not do the same with printing and not make a song and a dance
about it. 

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Brian]

On Wed 09 Mar 2016 at 08:28:42 +0100, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 08, 2016 at 08:41:55PM +, Brian wrote:
> > On Tue 08 Mar 2016 at 20:28:18 +0100, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > 
> > > Similar to what Gene mentioned, I've seen printers which want a CTRL-Z
> > > at the end of the job; the output filter would usually take care of
> > > that.
> > 
> > Which output filter are you referring to? Take note: the OP is adamant
> > about not using the Brother lpr filter. 
> 
> There's always an output filter in the chain. How else do you think
> the info in the ppd gets injected into the print job (given a PS
> printer)? Where do you think ghostscript is doing its magic converting
> the pdf into PCL or whatever exotic language the printer listens
> to?

There is a minimum of two filters in a CUPS filtering chain. The filter
takes an input and produces an output for the next filter. If we have
more filters each of them has an output. Please will the real output
filter stand up. :)

If by "output filter" you mean the last filter in the chain it would
have reduced my curiosity if it had been named. I thought my question
implied that; but perhaps not.

By the way, even non-Postscript printers have PPD options injected into
the printing stream. (Also, the last filter in a chain is always the
backend filter).

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Jarle Aase]

Den 09. mars 2016 14:27, skrev Brian:
In another mail Jarle Aase said: > I think this printer supports both 
pcl and postscript. Faint alarm bells sounded in my head - inkjet, 
inkjet, inkjet. I ignored the warning; after all he was surely in 
possession of a manual and would know the printer capabilities. The 
CUPS filter chain produces a file to be sent to the printer which is 
identified as "data", not PostScript or PCL. Installing the two 
Brother .deb files (a five minute job) seems to be the only way for 
printing to take place.


My plan is to install the Brother drivers in a virtual machine. When 
that works, I can use wireshark to see what's actually being sent to the 
printer, and decide if I want to do something to make it work on the 
"real" machine.


Jarle

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Brian]

On Tue 08 Mar 2016 at 17:01:06 +, Brian wrote:

>  lpadmin -p myprinter -v socket:// -E -o printer-is-shared 
> -m drv:///sample.drv/generpcl.ppd
> 
> Or
> 
>  lpadmin -p myprinter -v socket:// -E -o printer-is-shared 
> -m drv:///sample.drv/generic.ppd
> 
> Or delete the two *cupsFilter: lines in the Brother PPD and
> 
>  lpadmin -p myprinter -v socket:// -E -o printer-is-shared 
> -P 

Forget completely and utterly about this advice. It has zero chance of
ever working.

In another mail Jarle Aase said:

  > I think this printer supports both pcl and postscript.

Faint alarm bells sounded in my head - inkjet, inkjet, inkjet. I ignored
the warning; after all he was surely in possession of a manual and would
know the printer capabilities.

The CUPS filter chain produces a file to be sent to the printer which is
identified as "data", not PostScript or PCL. Installing the two Brother
.deb files (a five minute job) seems to be the only way for printing to
take place.
 
> You'll be looking at error_logs if there are problems.

It adds substance to an otherwise useless piece of information like "I
cannot print".

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, Mar 08, 2016 at 08:41:55PM +, Brian wrote:
> On Tue 08 Mar 2016 at 20:28:18 +0100, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, Mar 08, 2016 at 08:34:56PM +0200, Jarle Aase wrote:
> > > Thanks for all the hints and suggestions.
> > > 
> > > I have still not got the printing to work, but the scanner
> > > successfully sends the scans to my FTP server
> > > (https://sourceforge.net/projects/wfde/). That's kind of cool :) The
> > > scan quality is fine. I actually like this device. I'll see if I get
> > > it to print later this week. Tomorrow my dog is having an operation,
> > > and I have some code to deliver.
> > 
> > Similar to what Gene mentioned, I've seen printers which want a CTRL-Z
> > at the end of the job; the output filter would usually take care of
> > that.
> 
> Which output filter are you referring to? Take note: the OP is adamant
> about not using the Brother lpr filter. 

There's always an output filter in the chain. How else do you think
the info in the ppd gets injected into the print job (given a PS
printer)? Where do you think ghostscript is doing its magic converting
the pdf into PCL or whatever exotic language the printer listens
to?

> > A shot in the dark-and-muddy, but who knows.
> 
> Indeed.

Printers are dark and muddy, might I remind.

- -- t
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAlbf0KoACgkQBcgs9XrR2kZBhwCfUPztKDVYle0NHTGh2caiFs+C
iZsAnRHST5xBVctQqJtSHFenp0gOw1fi
=j2sP
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Brian]

On Tue 08 Mar 2016 at 20:34:56 +0200, Jarle Aase wrote:

> Thanks for all the hints and suggestions.
> 
> I have still not got the printing to work, but the scanner successfully
> sends the scans to my FTP server (https://sourceforge.net/projects/wfde/).
> That's kind of cool :) The scan quality is fine. I actually like this
> device. I'll see if I get it to print later this week. Tomorrow my dog is
> having an operation, and I have some code to deliver.

Scanning using the Brother closed source driver? Pragmatism in action.
Some security risks are worth taking, :)

Re: Does anyone know how to configure a Brother MFC-J5720DW with cups?

[Brian]

On Tue 08 Mar 2016 at 20:28:18 +0100, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 08, 2016 at 08:34:56PM +0200, Jarle Aase wrote:
> > Thanks for all the hints and suggestions.
> > 
> > I have still not got the printing to work, but the scanner
> > successfully sends the scans to my FTP server
> > (https://sourceforge.net/projects/wfde/). That's kind of cool :) The
> > scan quality is fine. I actually like this device. I'll see if I get
> > it to print later this week. Tomorrow my dog is having an operation,
> > and I have some code to deliver.
> 
> Similar to what Gene mentioned, I've seen printers which want a CTRL-Z
> at the end of the job; the output filter would usually take care of
> that.

Which output filter are you referring to? Take note: the OP is adamant
about not using the Brother lpr filter. 

> A shot in the dark-and-muddy, but who knows.

Indeed.