Re: Eek! X won't go away!
To quote MaD dUCK [EMAIL PROTECTED], # also sprach kmself@ix.netcom.com (on Fri, 02 Mar 2001 08:42:15PM -0800): # $ startx args exit # # ...which is what I use (do what I mean, not what I say). I can assure # you there are no console sessions on this box. # # this will kill my X immediately and log off. the only way i got it to # work is by startx, ctrl-alt-f1, suspending, and then exiting. # obviously though, X remained suspended... # # not even startx sleep 10 exit works. Try 'nohup startx /dev/null 21 exit', and replace /dev/null with a logfile of your choice. If you omit it, nohup.out will be used instead. Of course, you can keep it as /dev/null , but that might make debugging more difficult ;) I'd also like to point out that [G,X,K,W]DM is built for this sort of thing ... David Barclay Harris, Clan Barclay Aut agere, aut mori. (Either action, or death.)
Re: Eek! X won't go away!
kmself@ix.netcom.com wrote: Yes, launching X from a console w/o securing (or exiting) the console session is a security hole. However, securing or exiting the console session is trivial. I had just taken xlock off yesterday and i read this thread first thing this morning. Good timing. The problem was that I didn't see any point in having it on if anyone could pres ctrl-alt-bs and at the console. So if I want a secure X environment, what are my choices? 1. XDM? 2. Secure the console before? You mention above it being trivial. How can one do it? Thanks. Jonathan -- /* Jonathan Gift [EMAIL PROTECTED] */
Re: Eek! X won't go away!
on Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 08:06:30AM +0100, Jonathan Gift ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
kmself@ix.netcom.com wrote:
Yes, launching X from a console w/o securing (or exiting) the console
session is a security hole. However, securing or exiting the console
session is trivial.
I had just taken xlock off yesterday and i read this thread first thing
this morning. Good timing. The problem was that I didn't see any point
in having it on if anyone could pres ctrl-alt-bs and at the console. So
if I want a secure X environment, what are my choices?
1. XDM?
2. Secure the console before? You mention above it being trivial. How
can one do it?
Launch X. Kill your console session. In one swell foop if possible.
In my case, the specific command I use is:
$ startx -- :1 1.startx.log 21 exit
...and in my case, it works. Not sure why it doesn't for others, though
a 'nonup' may work. On my laptop, I wrote the following bash function
to simplify invoking X. In this case, the invocation is:
$ gostartx; exit
The function:
function gostartx
{
# Wed Feb 7 14:44:04 EST 2001
# Standard X startup -- we choose display :1
# Practice safe X.
if [ $# -eq 0 ];
then disp=1
else disp=$1
fi
if test -f /tmp/.X${disp}-lock; then
if test -d /proc/$( cat /tmp/.X${disp}-lock | sed -e '/ */s///' );
then
echo X session already running on display :$disp 12
exit 1
else
echo -e Removing stale lockfile...\c
if rm /tmp/.X1-lock; then
echo Succes
else
echo Failed 12
return 1
fi
fi
fi
As for why I don't use an X display manager, well, I wrote an essay on
that topic: http://kmself.home.netcom.com/Linux/FAQs/xdm-disable.html
...and, on my laptop, one of the problems is that it Just Doesn't Work®
and I Didn't Want To Fsck With It Any More®.
Cheers.
--
Karsten M. Self kmself@ix.netcom.comhttp://kmself.home.netcom.com/
What part of Gestalt don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal
http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org
pgpgDFc3rTtZn.pgp
Description: PGP signature
Re: Eek! X won't go away!
also sprach Jonathan Gift (on Sat, 03 Mar 2001 08:06:30AM +0100): 1. XDM? just to get this back... why *not* xdm? you don't have to write functions, it is guaranteed to work, and it's really not inconvenient. martin [greetings from the heart of the sun]# echo [EMAIL PROTECTED]:1:[EMAIL PROTECTED]@@@.net -- windoze 98: n. useless extension to a minor patch release for 32-bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16-bit patch to an 8-bit operating system originally coded for a 4-bit microprocessor, written by a 2-bit company that can't stand for 1 bit of competition.
Re: Eek! X won't go away!
on Tue, Feb 27, 2001 at 04:55:51PM -0500, MaD dUCK ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: also sprach Glenn Becker (on Tue, 27 Feb 2001 04:14:48PM -0500): I don't really know what the purpose of xdm is. There are packages to 'prettify' it, but I just object to the whole thing. :-) well, do consider a console login and a 'startx', xlock running and you out on lunch break, while i come into your office, hit ctrl-alt-del, and scp all your confidential docs to me so that i can then exploit all this knowledge... sure you'd find out, but then it's too late. so if you dislike xdm, at least set NoZap in XF86Config! Um. How about: $ startx args; exit ...from console. I've even written a bash function to do this sanely from my laptop, posted here recently. Yes, launching X from a console w/o securing (or exiting) the console session is a security hole. However, securing or exiting the console session is trivial. -- Karsten M. Self kmself@ix.netcom.comhttp://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of Gestalt don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org pgpD7ROx2Dgyd.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Eek! X won't go away!
also sprach kmself@ix.netcom.com (on Fri, 02 Mar 2001 02:28:39PM -0800): $ startx args; exit ... which you can probably suspend... even more dangerous because now the user doesn't even notice that the system has been accessed over lunch. i think you can suspend. i am not sure. martin [greetings from the heart of the sun]# echo [EMAIL PROTECTED]:1:[EMAIL PROTECTED]@@@.net -- may the bluebird of happiness twiddle your bits.
Re: Eek! X won't go away!
kmself@ix.netcom.com wrote: ... so if you dislike xdm, at least set NoZap in XF86Config! Um. How about: $ startx args; exit I think better option is to use nohup and actually exit. that way you are sure. or use virtual console lock:-) if such a beast exists. erik
Re: Eek! X won't go away!
on Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 03:48:30PM -0800, Erik Steffl ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: kmself@ix.netcom.com wrote: ... so if you dislike xdm, at least set NoZap in XF86Config! Um. How about: $ startx args; exit I think better option is to use nohup and actually exit. that way you are sure. or use virtual console lock:-) if such a beast exists. I meant to type: $ startx args exit ...which is what I use (do what I mean, not what I say). I can assure you there are no console sessions on this box. nohup isn't necessary. -- Karsten M. Self kmself@ix.netcom.comhttp://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of Gestalt don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org pgpqxD9zaXSHM.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Eek! X won't go away!
also sprach kmself@ix.netcom.com (on Fri, 02 Mar 2001 08:42:15PM -0800): $ startx args exit ...which is what I use (do what I mean, not what I say). I can assure you there are no console sessions on this box. this will kill my X immediately and log off. the only way i got it to work is by startx, ctrl-alt-f1, suspending, and then exiting. obviously though, X remained suspended... not even startx sleep 10 exit works. martin [greetings from the heart of the sun]# echo [EMAIL PROTECTED]:1:[EMAIL PROTECTED]@@@.net -- i'm always frank and earnest with women. uh, in new york I'm frank, and in chicago I'm ernest. -- the long kiss goodnight
Re: Eek! X won't go away!
also sprach Andrew Perrin (on Tue, 27 Feb 2001 05:31:39PM -0500): Not that I'm suggesting it, but wouldn't removing getty from consoles 1-6 fix approach 3.) below? and you want to log into to do startx how? try it: disable tty 2-6, log in on tty1, startx, then ctrl-alt-f1 and press ctrl-c. you will be presented with a shell of the logged in user, no matter whether xlock was running or not. martin [greetings from the heart of the sun]# echo [EMAIL PROTECTED]:1:[EMAIL PROTECTED]@@@.net -- the eternal feminine draws us upward. -- goethe
Re: Eek! X won't go away!
OK clue me in. Whats filerc? it replaces the whole symlink /etc/rc?.d hierarchy with one simple, straight forward configuration file. try it, it seemingly converts to and from on installation and deinstallation... martin [greetings from the heart of the sun]# echo [EMAIL PROTECTED]:1:[EMAIL PROTECTED]@@@.net -- no, 'eureka' is greek for 'this bath is too hot.' -- dr. who
Re: Eek! X won't go away!
On 27 Feb 2001, John Hasler wrote: It was the generic 'xdm' that was the problem, but when I tried to remove it, it wanted to take 'task-x-window-system' away, too.. Let it. 'task-x-window-system' is an empty package which does nothing but depend on a bunch of X stuff so that the X stuff gets installed when you install it. Removing it will have no effect at all. Thank you :) Even though it told me it was going to remove only a few k, I was prety convinced when it actually started up, it'd secretly remove all the x packages contained in the task :) Will dump that now =) gdh
Thanks re: Eek! X won't go away!
Just wanted to drop a note to say thanks to all the people who replied so quickly to this little dilemma! Fankoo! :) gdh
Eek! X won't go away!
I have a MOST bizarre and interesting problem at the moment! After my 'unstable' machine boots.. about 2 minutes later, X will start up, with an xconsole in the corner showing 'dmesg' output, and a simple graphical login prompt in the centre of the screen forces a login before anything else can be done... If I try and kill X with Ctrl-Alt-Backspace, it immediately reloads... This one has foxed me completely!! Any ideas? Kind regards, Gavin.
Re: Eek! X won't go away!
It sounds like you have xdm running. I don't much like it either - it is difficult to get to pure console with that thing in the way. As a temp fix you can /bin/su root and run killall xdm. this will blow away X and take you to console login. If you want it never to show up again, you should K out the service in whichever of the /etc/rcX.d/ folders it is in. I assume /etc/rc2.d/, but I'm not sure. Glenn Becker Online Producer, Community SCIFI.COM At 8:59pm on Tue, 27 Feb 2001, Gavin Hamill wrote: I have a MOST bizarre and interesting problem at the moment! After my 'unstable' machine boots.. about 2 minutes later, X will start up, with an xconsole in the corner showing 'dmesg' output, and a simple graphical login prompt in the centre of the screen forces a login before anything else can be done... If I try and kill X with Ctrl-Alt-Backspace, it immediately reloads... This one has foxed me completely!! Any ideas? Kind regards, Gavin. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Eek! X won't go away!
On Tue, 27 Feb 2001 20:59:54 + (GMT), Gavin Hamill said: I have a MOST bizarre and interesting problem at the moment! After my 'unstable' machine boots.. about 2 minutes later, X will start up, with an xconsole in the corner showing 'dmesg' output, and a simple graphical login prompt in the centre of the screen forces a login before anything else can be done... If I try and kill X with Ctrl-Alt-Backspace, it immediately reloads... I believe I had a similar experience once, so I uninstalled xdm (or gdm, kdm, if you use Gnome or KDE) -- Andrew
Re: Eek! X won't go away!
On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, Glenn Becker wrote: It sounds like you have xdm running. I don't much like it either - it is difficult to get to pure console with that thing in the way. You're quite right I do indeed have xdm running, and had already noticed the problem vanished when xdm did, but I assumed it had some vital functionality for X that I wasn't aware of... But I'll be sure to blat it from startup completely :) What purpose does it serve anyway? Thanks! Regards, Gavin,
Re: Eek! X won't go away!
I don't really know what the purpose of xdm is. There are packages to 'prettify' it, but I just object to the whole thing. :-) Glenn Becker Online Producer, Community SCIFI.COM At 9:12pm on Tue, 27 Feb 2001, Gavin Hamill wrote: On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, Glenn Becker wrote: It sounds like you have xdm running. I don't much like it either - it is difficult to get to pure console with that thing in the way. You're quite right I do indeed have xdm running, and had already noticed the problem vanished when xdm did, but I assumed it had some vital functionality for X that I wasn't aware of... But I'll be sure to blat it from startup completely :) What purpose does it serve anyway? Thanks! Regards, Gavin,
Re: Eek! X won't go away!
On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, Glenn Becker wrote: I don't really know what the purpose of xdm is. There are packages to 'prettify' it, but I just object to the whole thing. :-) Urk! Yes.. 'This version of Linux is better because it's version 7 instead of 2.2 and it has a nicer looking login prompt' sigh Go back to bed with Mr. Gates, silly people =) gdh
Re: Eek! X won't go away!
In lists.projects.debian.user, you wrote: I have a MOST bizarre and interesting problem at the moment! After my 'unstable' machine boots.. about 2 minutes later, X will start up, with an xconsole in the corner showing 'dmesg' output, and a simple graphical login prompt in the centre of the screen forces a login before anything else can be done... If I try and kill X with Ctrl-Alt-Backspace, it immediately reloads... This one has foxed me completely!! Any ideas? The program that's doing this is gdm, the graphical display manager. There are several ways around it: 1. To temporarily get non-graphical console access, hit Ctrl+Alt+F1 (or f2 through f6). Ctrl+Alt+F7 should get you back to the gdm login 2. To kill gdm temporarily, do /etc/init.d/gdm stop as root. The same command with start instead of stop will start it up again later. 3. Remove gdm completely by doing something like apt-get remove gdm as root. K. -- Kirrily 'Skud' Robert - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://infotrope.net/ It's just you, you seriously twisted little fuck. Don't ever change, we like you just the way you are. -- Paul Tomblin to Skud (from the Netizen quotes file)
Re: Eek! X won't go away!
3. Remove gdm completely by doing something like apt-get remove gdm as root. Hi :) It was the generic 'xdm' that was the problem, but when I tried to remove it, it wanted to take 'task-x-window-system' away, too.. so I decided to just remove the startup lines in /etc/rc.* :) Thanks! gdh
Re: Eek! X won't go away!
On Tue, Feb 27, 2001 at 09:37:53PM +, Gavin Hamill wrote: 3. Remove gdm completely by doing something like apt-get remove gdm as root. Hi :) It was the generic 'xdm' that was the problem, but when I tried to remove it, it wanted to take 'task-x-window-system' away, too.. so I decided to just remove the startup lines in /etc/rc.* :) Ugh, I *meant* xdm. I think perhaps I need to retrain my fingers. They have built-in macros or something. K.
Re: Eek! X won't go away!
also sprach Glenn Becker (on Tue, 27 Feb 2001 04:14:48PM -0500): I don't really know what the purpose of xdm is. There are packages to 'prettify' it, but I just object to the whole thing. :-) well, do consider a console login and a 'startx', xlock running and you out on lunch break, while i come into your office, hit ctrl-alt-del, and scp all your confidential docs to me so that i can then exploit all this knowledge... sure you'd find out, but then it's too late. so if you dislike xdm, at least set NoZap in XF86Config! martin [greetings from the heart of the sun]# echo [EMAIL PROTECTED]:1:[EMAIL PROTECTED]@@@.net -- there are more things in heaven and earth, horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy. -- hamlet
Re: Eek! X won't go away!
gdh writes: It was the generic 'xdm' that was the problem, but when I tried to remove it, it wanted to take 'task-x-window-system' away, too.. Let it. 'task-x-window-system' is an empty package which does nothing but depend on a bunch of X stuff so that the X stuff gets installed when you install it. Removing it will have no effect at all. -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, Wisconsin
Re: Eek! X won't go away!
also sprach Kirrily Robert (on Tue, 27 Feb 2001 04:35:19PM -0500): The program that's doing this is gdm, the graphical display manager. gnome display manager and no, not everyone is running gnome. thank god. i would suggest you set up your machine with two primary runlevels, 2 and 3, where 3 is the graphical login equivalent of 2, which means that there exists a /etc/rc3.d/xdm link but not any other xdm link in /etc/rc[0-24-6]. (you should be using filerc anyway, it's the smartest change to that stupid system V stuff i have ever seen. once this is properly set up, the line containing initdefault in /etc/inittab can be changed to 2/3 however you are liking the current month. martin [greetings from the heart of the sun]# echo [EMAIL PROTECTED]:1:[EMAIL PROTECTED]@@@.net -- first snow, then silence. this thousand dollar screen dies so beautifully.
Re: Eek! X won't go away!
On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, Gavin Hamill wrote: Hi :) It was the generic 'xdm' that was the problem, but when I tried to remove it, it wanted to take 'task-x-window-system' away, too.. so I decided to just remove the startup lines in /etc/rc.* :) There's no problem with removing task-x-window-system, or task-anything-else for that matter. Those packages don't contain any files; they exist only for their dependencies, which make up a typical set of packages to be used for a given task. That's why you got xdm installed in the first place: you installed task-x-window-system and the maintainer had made xdm a dependency, figuring that it was a typically useful package to have with an X installation. Of course, you're allowed to disagree and remove xdm if you wish. If you're not using it, it's just wasting disk space, and you won't lose anything by removing task-x-window-system. -- David Steinberg -o) Computer Engineering Undergrad, UBC / \ [EMAIL PROTECTED]_\_v
Re: Eek! X won't go away!
Thanks. Good point indeed! Glenn Becker Online Producer, Community SCIFI.COM At 4:55pm on Tue, 27 Feb 2001, MaD dUCK wrote: also sprach Glenn Becker (on Tue, 27 Feb 2001 04:14:48PM -0500): I don't really know what the purpose of xdm is. There are packages to 'prettify' it, but I just object to the whole thing. :-) well, do consider a console login and a 'startx', xlock running and you out on lunch break, while i come into your office, hit ctrl-alt-del, and scp all your confidential docs to me so that i can then exploit all this knowledge... sure you'd find out, but then it's too late. so if you dislike xdm, at least set NoZap in XF86Config! martin [greetings from the heart of the sun]# echo [EMAIL PROTECTED]:1:[EMAIL PROTECTED]@@@.net -- there are more things in heaven and earth, horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy. -- hamlet -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Eek! X won't go away!
On Tue, 27 Feb 2001 16:55:51 -0500, MaD dUCK said: so if you dislike xdm, at least set NoZap in XF86Config! NoZap ? Where is this documented? I might want to try it. thanks -- Andrew
Re: Eek! X won't go away!
On Tue, Feb 27, 2001 at 04:55:51PM -0500, MaD dUCK wrote: also sprach Glenn Becker (on Tue, 27 Feb 2001 04:14:48PM -0500): I don't really know what the purpose of xdm is. There are packages to 'prettify' it, but I just object to the whole thing. :-) well, do consider a console login and a 'startx', xlock running and you out on lunch break, while i come into your office, hit ctrl-alt-del, and scp all your confidential docs to me so that i can then exploit all this knowledge... sure you'd find out, but then it's too late. so if you dislike xdm, at least set NoZap in XF86Config! Points to consider: 1. Running xlock after you have started X from the console is silly, insecure, and useless. 2. It's Ctrl-Alt-Backspace, not Ctrl-Alt-Del. And as I understand it, Debian defaults to NoZap, so it wouldn't work anyway. 3. If someone really was stupid enough to start X from the console and then assume that xlock would work for them, all one would really need to do is Ctrl-Alt-F(1-6), then Ctrl-C. There's no stopping that, aside from simply just not relying on xlock when you have logged in from the console. Stopping X and logging out isn't really all that hard. -Rob
Re: Eek! X won't go away!
martin writes: well, do consider a console login and a 'startx', xlock running and you out on lunch break, while i come into your office,... You might find it a little hard to get past the dogs on the front porch. ...scp all your confidential docs to me... This message contains every bit of exploitable confidential information I have on my machine. -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler) Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI
Re: Eek! X won't go away!
Not that I'm suggesting it, but wouldn't removing getty from consoles 1-6 fix approach 3.) below? ap -- Andrew J Perrin - Ph.D. Candidate, UC Berkeley, Dept. of Sociology Chapel Hill, North Carolina, USA - http://demog.berkeley.edu/~aperrin [EMAIL PROTECTED] - [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, Rob VanFleet wrote: On Tue, Feb 27, 2001 at 04:55:51PM -0500, MaD dUCK wrote: also sprach Glenn Becker (on Tue, 27 Feb 2001 04:14:48PM -0500): I don't really know what the purpose of xdm is. There are packages to 'prettify' it, but I just object to the whole thing. :-) well, do consider a console login and a 'startx', xlock running and you out on lunch break, while i come into your office, hit ctrl-alt-del, and scp all your confidential docs to me so that i can then exploit all this knowledge... sure you'd find out, but then it's too late. so if you dislike xdm, at least set NoZap in XF86Config! Points to consider: 1.Running xlock after you have started X from the console is silly, insecure, and useless. 2.It's Ctrl-Alt-Backspace, not Ctrl-Alt-Del. And as I understand it, Debian defaults to NoZap, so it wouldn't work anyway. 3.If someone really was stupid enough to start X from the console and then assume that xlock would work for them, all one would really need to do is Ctrl-Alt-F(1-6), then Ctrl-C. There's no stopping that, aside from simply just not relying on xlock when you have logged in from the console. Stopping X and logging out isn't really all that hard. -Rob -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Eek! X won't go away!
also sprach Pollywog (on Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:11:14PM +): Where is this documented? I might want to try it. woops. DontZap man 5 XF86Config martin [greetings from the heart of the sun]# echo [EMAIL PROTECTED]:1:[EMAIL PROTECTED]@@@.net -- and if the cloud bursts, thunder in your ear you shout and no one seems to hear and if the band you're in starts playing different tunes i'll see you on the dark side of the moon. -- pink floyd, 1972
Re: Eek! X won't go away!
also sprach John Hasler (on Tue, 27 Feb 2001 04:23:38PM -0600): well, do consider a console login and a 'startx', xlock running and you out on lunch break, while i come into your office,... You might find it a little hard to get past the dogs on the front porch. i am so down with dogs. anyway, 'i' is the hypothetical other someone. if you work at home, that's a little different but nevertheless... ...scp all your confidential docs to me... This message contains every bit of exploitable confidential information I have on my machine. thank you for writing this. really, thanks! martin [greetings from the heart of the sun]# echo [EMAIL PROTECTED]:1:[EMAIL PROTECTED]@@@.net -- the human brain is like an enormous fish -- it is flat and slimy and has gills through which it can see. -- monty python
Re: Eek! X won't go away!
i would suggest you set up your machine with two primary runlevels, 2 and 3, where 3 is the graphical login equivalent of 2, which means that there exists a /etc/rc3.d/xdm link but not any other xdm link in /etc/rc[0-24-6]. (you should be using filerc anyway, it's the smartest change to that stupid system V stuff i have ever seen. OK clue me in. Whats filerc? -- LINUX~~nobody owns it~~everybody can use it~~anybody can improve it ~~~
Re: Eek! X won't go away!
On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, Gavin Hamill wrote: 3. Remove gdm completely by doing something like apt-get remove gdm as root. Hi :) It was the generic 'xdm' that was the problem, but when I tried to remove it, it wanted to take 'task-x-window-system' away, too.. so I decided to just remove the startup lines in /etc/rc.* :) What's the point of the task once the packages are installed? Go ahead and purge it if you don't want xdm. After all, it's *YOUR* system, not tasksel's :) Thanks! gdh -- I can be immature if I want to, because I'm mature enough to make my own decisions. Who is John Galt? [EMAIL PROTECTED]
