Re: Explorer-type file manager
On Thu, Feb 20, 2003 at 11:08:51AM -0500, Matthew Weier O'Phinney wrote: -- Osamu Aoki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote What is kicker? kicker is the equivalent of the GNOME foot menu, or Windows Start menu, IIRC (I'm not a KDE user; it could also be the KDE panel itself). It's the panel itself. Kicker is analogous to the MacOS X Dock, Windows taskbar, or gnome-panel. I think Paul meant applets by proglets -- small applications that can run on the panel; windowmaker (a NextSTEP-ish WM, as is afterstep) utilizes a dock and dockapps or dock proglets, which are very similar. Right. Applets is a misnomer, though: Applications are general aspects of computing, like word processing, spreadsheats, web browsers, etc. The Debian idea of what tasks are is identical to what the non-marketroid definition of an application is. Programs are what the machine actually runs. OpenOffice.org Writer is not an application, it's a program; word processing is the application. To put it another way, applications are what you want to do with the computer, programs are how you get it done. The big difference is that they're not on a bar, but rather in a special area on the screen that sizes itself to the number of dockapps present. Well, the proglets can be of various sizes in the kicker/panel, whereas dock proglets are usually fixed size 64x64 pixels. -- .''`. Baloo [EMAIL PROTECTED] : :' :proud Debian admin and user `. `'` `- Debian - when you have better things to do than to fix a system msg32091/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Explorer-type file manager
-- Osamu Aoki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote (on Wednesday, 19 February 2003, 09:19 PM -0800): On Wed, Feb 19, 2003 at 04:45:04AM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: On Tue, Feb 18, 2003 at 11:57:09AM -0500, Matthew Weier O'Phinney wrote: However, applications built for either desktop environment can *typically* be run without *running* the desktop environment -- it just means you have more libraries installed, and some processes from the necessary DE may need to be started by the application in order to run (kdeinit, bonobo, etc.). That's correct. The only gotcha is kicker and panel proglets don't work as expected, much like dock proglets for NeXTstep clones don't do what's expected when not running a NeXT-ish WM. What is kicker? kicker is the equivalent of the GNOME foot menu, or Windows Start menu, IIRC (I'm not a KDE user; it could also be the KDE panel itself). I think Paul meant applets by proglets -- small applications that can run on the panel; windowmaker (a NextSTEP-ish WM, as is afterstep) utilizes a dock and dockapps or dock proglets, which are very similar. The big difference is that they're not on a bar, but rather in a special area on the screen that sizes itself to the number of dockapps present. -- Matthew Weier O'Phinney [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Explorer-type file manager
On Tue, Feb 18, 2003 at 11:57:09AM -0500, Matthew Weier O'Phinney wrote: However, applications built for either desktop environment can *typically* be run without *running* the desktop environment -- it just means you have more libraries installed, and some processes from the necessary DE may need to be started by the application in order to run (kdeinit, bonobo, etc.). That's correct. The only gotcha is kicker and panel proglets don't work as expected, much like dock proglets for NeXTstep clones don't do what's expected when not running a NeXT-ish WM. -- .''`. Baloo [EMAIL PROTECTED] : :' :proud Debian admin and user `. `'` `- Debian - when you have better things to do than to fix a system msg31664/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Explorer-type file manager
On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:57:09 -0500 Matthew Weier O'Phinney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: like Phoenix and Skipstone (which utilize GTK+). But I have yet to utilize a good *graphical* file manager that didn't come with a DE; for the most part, I've been doing without one, but I can also see your reasons for wanting one (making the machine easier for others to use). apt-cache show worker Geordie. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Explorer-type file manager
On Wed, Feb 19, 2003 at 04:45:04AM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: On Tue, Feb 18, 2003 at 11:57:09AM -0500, Matthew Weier O'Phinney wrote: However, applications built for either desktop environment can *typically* be run without *running* the desktop environment -- it just means you have more libraries installed, and some processes from the necessary DE may need to be started by the application in order to run (kdeinit, bonobo, etc.). That's correct. The only gotcha is kicker and panel proglets don't work as expected, much like dock proglets for NeXTstep clones don't do what's expected when not running a NeXT-ish WM. What is kicker? Proglets sounds like progress bar graphics shown in panel area. I am blackbox/flushbox user. Enlighten me for Nextstep things :-) Is there similar issues with GNOME/KDE? I do not know any other than configuration utilities. -- ~\^o^/~~~ ~\^.^/~~~ ~\^*^/~~~ ~\^_^/~~~ ~\^+^/~~~ ~\^:^/~~~ ~\^v^/~~~ + Osamu Aoki [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cupertino CA USA, GPG-key: A8061F32 .''`. Debian Reference: post-installation user's guide for non-developers : :' : http://qref.sf.net and http://people.debian.org/~osamu `. `' Our Priorities are Our Users and Free Software --- Social Contract -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Explorer-type file manager
On Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 03:54:38PM -0800, Bill Moseley wrote: Trying to ease the transition to Linux for the family, I'd like a MS Windows-like Explorer file manager, both in look and usage. Have you taken a look at KDE or Gnome? KDE in sid is up to 3.1 if you ignore the kde metapackage and rough it manually. I'm liking the new KDE, but the default theme that got the nasty window-manager elements from a strange QNX theme, colors from a MacOS 9 theme gone wrong, and the feel of Windows Explorer in view as Web Page mode. Yes, this can be easily changed to something sane. I'm also liking how easy it is to enable anti-aliasing. I now have sub-pixel anti-aliasing and my text is now absurdly sharp and easy to read. -- .''`. Baloo [EMAIL PROTECTED] : :' :proud Debian admin and user `. `'` `- Debian - when you have better things to do than to fix a system msg31499/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Explorer-type file manager
On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Paul Johnson wrote: On Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 03:54:38PM -0800, Bill Moseley wrote: Trying to ease the transition to Linux for the family, I'd like a MS Windows-like Explorer file manager, both in look and usage. Have you taken a look at KDE or Gnome? KDE in sid is up to 3.1 if you ignore the kde metapackage and rough it manually. Well, the goal was to not switch window managers. I wonder how hosed my system will be if I try to get kde from sid installed in my testing/unstable machine. I frankly do not fully understand the difference between something like a small window manager like IceWM or Blackbox and KDE or Gnome. When I had KDE installed before it seemed like there was a lot of processes running. And I remember it was a bit of work just to get Kmail installed as it had a bunch of dependencies that, IIRC, were not solved just by apt-get install. I'm also liking how easy it is to enable anti-aliasing. I now have sub-pixel anti-aliasing and my text is now absurdly sharp and easy to read. That's cool. I spent months screwing with my fonts. I finally disabled anti-aliasing for smaller font sizes because they looked too fuzzy to me. I'm still not sure if that's just personal opinion, or if my config was bad, or had sub-pixel set wrong, or bad video card or aging monitor (Sony G500 21), or what. It was also a pain because my system seems to be a mix of xft and xft2 so I was messing with both XftConfig and fonts.conf. -- Bill Moseley [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Explorer-type file manager
-- Bill Moseley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote (on Tuesday, 18 February 2003, 08:02 AM -0800): On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Paul Johnson wrote: On Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 03:54:38PM -0800, Bill Moseley wrote: Trying to ease the transition to Linux for the family, I'd like a MS Windows-like Explorer file manager, both in look and usage. Have you taken a look at KDE or Gnome? KDE in sid is up to 3.1 if you ignore the kde metapackage and rough it manually. Well, the goal was to not switch window managers. I wonder how hosed my system will be if I try to get kde from sid installed in my testing/unstable machine. I frankly do not fully understand the difference between something like a small window manager like IceWM or Blackbox and KDE or Gnome. IceWM, blackbox, etc. are *window managers* -- that's what they do, and they do a good job at it. Most of the good, low overhead WMs compile with just the X libraries, meaning that they have few dependencies and a small footprint -- which leaves your memory and CPU resources for things like applications. KDE and GNOME are *desktop environments*. As such, each offers a window manager (although each can also be configured to use a different one), but also offers their own libraries and configuration tools in order to present an integrated desktop experience; they also utilize an API so that applications can be built off of the libraries they utilize. What this means to the lay-user is that K-apps work faster with KDE, and GNOME apps work faster with GNOME (instead of vice-versa). However, applications built for either desktop environment can *typically* be run without *running* the desktop environment -- it just means you have more libraries installed, and some processes from the necessary DE may need to be started by the application in order to run (kdeinit, bonobo, etc.). Personally, my machine has better uses for its time than a DE -- so I utilize blackbox, have ROX-Filer throw some icons on my workspace, and try and utilize applications that don't require KDE or GNOME (there are a lot of GTK+ apps that don't require GNOME, for instance, and QT apps that don't require KDE). For this reason, I've really liked browsers like Phoenix and Skipstone (which utilize GTK+). But I have yet to utilize a good *graphical* file manager that didn't come with a DE; for the most part, I've been doing without one, but I can also see your reasons for wanting one (making the machine easier for others to use). -- Matthew Weier O'Phinney [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Explorer-type file manager
On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:57:09 -0500 Matthew Weier O'Phinney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Personally, my machine has better uses for its time than a DE -- so I utilize blackbox, have ROX-Filer throw some icons on my workspace, and try and utilize applications that don't require KDE or GNOME (there are a lot of GTK+ apps that don't require GNOME, for instance, and QT apps that don't require KDE). For this reason, I've really liked browsers like Phoenix and Skipstone (which utilize GTK+). But I have yet to utilize a good *graphical* file manager that didn't come with a DE; for the most part, I've been doing without one, but I can also see your reasons for wanting one (making the machine easier for others to use). The most windows like file manager that I have seen is called Endeavour. Search google for Endeavour Mark II -- which is the latest version. You will probably have to compile it yourself but some people I know use it extensively. Personally I generally use emelfm a simple 2-pane gtk based file manager - very light weight! Hope this helps, R. Pluschke -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Explorer-type file manager
hey bill, if you're reluctant to try and install gnome or kde, i'd recommend you download and burn yourself a knoppix CD. if you're not familiar with what knoppix is, it's a bootable linux on a cd, based off of debian, and comes with gnome, kde, and iirc even icewm as options from the boot prompt, as well as a nice collectoin of g* and k* software. it's a good way to get a feel for the different desktop environments, and from my own experience comes in very handy as a rescue cd as well, so it's good to have anyway. sean msg31538/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Explorer-type file manager
Trying to ease the transition to Linux for the family, I'd like a MS Windows-like Explorer file manager, both in look and usage. Not that icon view, just the plain old Explore with directories on the left and directory contents on the right. And where I can configure what mouse buttons do for each file type (e.g. right click on .mp3 and select from menu xmms play, xmms queue, or mpg123, or scp to some set machine). Also click on column titles to sort by that column. Window manager is icewm. I like Rox and FileRunner and a few others, but this is a case where I'm trying to make it feel a lot like Windows. Thanks, -- Bill Moseley [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Explorer-type file manager
hey bill, for folks who are really wanting a windows-like environment, i'd recommend going with a gnome or kde desktop environment. both come with built in file browsers, and i believe that they both also provide the click and go functionality for desktop icons as well. i don't know too much about installing either on your desktop, because i'm rather happy with fvwm2 personally, but i've sat down at debian stations running both kde and gnome, and found that both were quite featureful and user-friendly (though i don't remember what the default underlying window manager was in either case). sean On Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 03:54:38PM -0800, Bill Moseley wrote: Trying to ease the transition to Linux for the family, I'd like a MS Windows-like Explorer file manager, both in look and usage. Not that icon view, just the plain old Explore with directories on the left and directory contents on the right. And where I can configure what mouse buttons do for each file type (e.g. right click on .mp3 and select from menu xmms play, xmms queue, or mpg123, or scp to some set machine). Also click on column titles to sort by that column. Window manager is icewm. I like Rox and FileRunner and a few others, but this is a case where I'm trying to make it feel a lot like Windows. Thanks, -- Bill Moseley [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] msg31378/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Explorer-type file manager
-- Bill Moseley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote (on Monday, 17 February 2003, 03:54 PM -0800): Trying to ease the transition to Linux for the family, I'd like a MS Windows-like Explorer file manager, both in look and usage. Not that icon view, just the plain old Explore with directories on the left and directory contents on the right. And where I can configure what mouse buttons do for each file type (e.g. right click on .mp3 and select from menu xmms play, xmms queue, or mpg123, or scp to some set machine). Also click on column titles to sort by that column. Window manager is icewm. As long as you have the right libraries installed (which apt will automatically take care of), you should be able to run any filemanager you can find -- the window manager is simply there for just that: managing windows. I like Rox and FileRunner and a few others, but this is a case where I'm trying to make it feel a lot like Windows. Some specific suggestions: konqueror (the KDE filemanager/web browser) nautilus (GNOME filemanager -- also web browser, as it utilizes mozilla) You might also look into purchasing a copy of Xandros, which is a debian-based distro; the reviews I've read of the Xandros File Manager (called xfm, but not to be confused with another filemanager by that name) make it sound like it's several steps beyond either of the above, and perhaps even less memory/CPU intensive. You'd be in a familiar environment (as I noted, it's Debian based), but have a very Windows-esque environment. -- Matthew Weier O'Phinney [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Explorer-type file manager
You might also look into purchasing a copy of Xandros, which is a debian-based distro; the reviews I've read of the Xandros File Manager (called xfm, but not to be confused with another filemanager by that name) make it sound like it's several steps beyond either of the above, and perhaps even less memory/CPU intensive. You'd be in a familiar environment (as I noted, it's Debian based), but have a very Windows-esque environment. working on xandros now, xfm is VERY good, there's a cheapo version of xandros if you don't want all the windows compatability hooks. I thought i was going to die the first 2 days of the transition from windows, very nearly plugged the XP box back in. 4 days in now and getting happier with things as I gain familiarity. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Explorer-type file manager
Matthew Weier O'Phinney wrote: -- Bill Moseley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote (on Monday, 17 February 2003, 03:54 PM -0800): Trying to ease the transition to Linux for the family, I'd like a MS Windows-like Explorer file manager, both in look and usage. nautilus (GNOME filemanager -- also web browser, as it utilizes mozilla) I've heard/read that several times, but it's never worked as a web browser for me. It just shows the raw HTML. Must have something set up improperly . . . . konqueror (yes, it'll run from icewm), gmc, maybe xftree. xfm, ytree, nautilus, gnome-commander, emelfm. I think the most Window-ish is probably konqueror. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Explorer-type file manager
On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Matthew Weier O'Phinney wrote: -- Bill Moseley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Window manager is icewm. As long as you have the right libraries installed (which apt will automatically take care of), you should be able to run any filemanager you can find -- the window manager is simply there for just that: managing windows. I should try Konqueror again. On a past installation I had problems trying to get just a few KDE apps working, although I now have kmail installed. Just seems to bring a lot of baggage along with the install. But it is a nice full-featured file manager. You might also look into purchasing a copy of Xandros Ok, I'll look. I'm really looking for something to help others use *my* machine, not change my machine from the way it currently is setup... ;) Thanks for all the suggestion. -- Bill Moseley [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Explorer-type file manager
John Griffiths wrote: You might also look into purchasing a copy of Xandros, which is a debian-based distro; the reviews I've read of the Xandros File Manager (called xfm, but not to be confused with another filemanager by that name) make it sound like it's several steps beyond either of the above, and perhaps even less memory/CPU intensive. You'd be in a familiar environment (as I noted, it's Debian based), but have a very Windows-esque environment. working on xandros now, xfm is VERY good, there's a cheapo version of xandros if you don't want all the windows compatability hooks. I thought i was going to die the first 2 days of the transition from windows, very nearly plugged the XP box back in. 4 days in now and getting happier with things as I gain familiarity. gnome-commander (better one from testing) is a file browser. fvwm95 is a windows 95 look-alike too. http://www.plig.org/xwinman/screenshots/fvwm95-horen.jpg http://www.plig.org/xwinman/fvwm95.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
