Re: Future of systemd-shim?

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2018-07-12 13:48:39 +0200, Elimar Riesebieter wrote:
> * Stephan Seitz  [2018-07-12 12:59 +0200]:
> 
> > Hi!
> > 
> > I noticed that systemd-shim isn’t compatible anymore to the last systemd
> > version in testing, so systemd-sysv will be installed.
> > 
> > This is mentioned in bug
> > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=903295.
> > 
> > Is anyone working on this problem? Or does this mean, it’s the end for
> > sysvinit (at least for desktops)?
> 
> I am running sysvinit server systems with only libsystemd0
> installed. Why do you need systemd-shim?

In my case, because libpam-systemd depends on:

   systemd-shim (>= 10-3~) | systemd-sysv

and many packages depend on libpam-systemd (in particular, lightdm).

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
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Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: Future of systemd-shim?

[The Wanderer]

On 2018-07-12 at 07:50, The Wanderer wrote:

> On 2018-07-12 at 06:59, Stephan Seitz wrote:
> 
>> Hi!
>> 
>> I noticed that systemd-shim isn’t compatible anymore to the last
>> systemd version in testing, so systemd-sysv will be installed.
>> 
>> This is mentioned in bug
>> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=903295.
>> 
>> Is anyone working on this problem?
> 
> Possibly not, although anyone who wants to look into it can. The
> question is what about the new libpam-systemd requires features not
> previously present in systemd-shim. (And whether the bumped version
> requirement is just speculative, or whether the libpam-systemd
> maintainers happen to know of a yet-unpackaged upstream release with
> that version number which would work with the new libpam-systemd.)

The changelog for src:systemd version 239-4 includes:

  * Drop patches which try to support running systemd services without
systemd
as pid 1.
No one is currently actively maintaining systemd-shim, which means that
e.g. running systemd-logind no longer works when systemd is not pid 1.
Thus drop our no longer working patches. Bump the Breaks against
systemd-shim accordingly.
See #895292, #901404, #901405

The latter two listed bugs describe explicitly exactly what's broken and
needs to be fixed in systemd-shim; the other one has a comment which
links to two other bugs, one of which is #893819, which also seems to
suggest particular fixes (although not necessarily how).

So in theory, "all" that would be needed is someone to look into those
reported issues and come up with patches to make systemd-shim support
those behaviors.

Which is probably considerably easier said than done, but at least it's
better than having no starting point.

(It might be worth looking at the other open systemd-shim bugs at the
same time, in case any of them also mention relevant incompatibilities.)

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



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Re: Future of systemd-shim?

[The Wanderer]

On 2018-07-12 at 06:59, Stephan Seitz wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> I noticed that systemd-shim isn’t compatible anymore to the last
> systemd version in testing, so systemd-sysv will be installed.
> 
> This is mentioned in bug 
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=903295.
> 
> Is anyone working on this problem?

Possibly not, although anyone who wants to look into it can. The
question is what about the new libpam-systemd requires features not
previously present in systemd-shim. (And whether the bumped version
requirement is just speculative, or whether the libpam-systemd
maintainers happen to know of a yet-unpackaged upstream release with
that version number which would work with the new libpam-systemd.)

> Or does this mean, it’s the end for sysvinit (at least for
> desktops)?

Not completely, in any case; it won't particularly affect me, because
(at least on my primary desktop machine) I don't just run sysvinit, I
also refuse to let libpam-systemd get installed, because even having it
present on a sysvinit system results in behavior changes I don't like.
(Or it did have that result, last time I checked.) There's plenty of
useful packages - enough to make up a fully usable system - available
even under that scenario.

For those who need packages which rely on libpam-system, though: maybe
so! If you don't like that, you may want to investigate the situation
and see what it might take to fix systemd-shim again.

(I've taken the first steps in that direction myself, but - especially
since I'm not directly affected - may well not wind up producing
anything useful out of the effort.)

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



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Re: Future of systemd-shim?

[Elimar Riesebieter]

* Stephan Seitz  [2018-07-12 12:59 +0200]:

> Hi!
> 
> I noticed that systemd-shim isn’t compatible anymore to the last systemd
> version in testing, so systemd-sysv will be installed.
> 
> This is mentioned in bug
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=903295.
> 
> Is anyone working on this problem? Or does this mean, it’s the end for
> sysvinit (at least for desktops)?

I am running sysvinit server systems with only libsystemd0
installed. Why do you need systemd-shim?

Elimar
-- 
  Excellent day for drinking heavily.
  Spike the office water cooler;-)

Future of systemd-shim?

[Stephan Seitz]

Hi!

I noticed that systemd-shim isn’t compatible anymore to the last systemd 
version in testing, so systemd-sysv will be installed.


This is mentioned in bug 
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=903295.


Is anyone working on this problem? Or does this mean, it’s the end for 
sysvinit (at least for desktops)?


Shade and sweet water!

Stephan

--
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