Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
Dotan Cohen wrote: On 11 May 2010 23:02, deloptes delop...@yahoo.com wrote: - weather http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/yaWP+%28Yet+Another+Weather+Plasmoid%29?content=94106 This was not working in 4.3 and I couldn't start it in 4.4. Interesting, it works on the Ubuntu box I test KDE on. - korganizer Check! it took at least 10min to start Wow. Any console output? - infrared control How did you do this in KDE 3? with klirc and lircd and modifying the kernel key map for my cinergy xxs dvbt card ;-) a big challenge was to setup the kde keys ... it's not very developed, but the basic functionality works Please, your input is needed here: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=197885 i plasma-widget-kbstate - A plasma widget that shows the state of the modifier keys In kde3 the idiots didn't think of us poor people not using latin and associated per default ALT+K to switch the keymap. Now if you switch from english to rushian/bulgarian or whatever ALT+K gives a completely different keycode ... So I had to always change this. Now in kde4 it's even better. You have to click ... and no reasonable language switching combination is working. In this point Windows wins, as it's per default configured to switch languages when typing (left)ALT+SHIFT I switch between languages with the Capslock key. עובד גם בעברית! Работает тоже по Русский! - screen management (xrandr interface) Yes, built into System Settings. yes but not working for me and everybody running i915 vga card. this is also related to X-Server and the a**holes from intel. (don't judge me the notebook was given to me from the company I'm working for :-( ) I don't think that's a KDE issue, though. no but it's definitely an issue if you can not arrange your displays. http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/Krypt?content=80641 the question is if it is compiling in kde4? and also if it is working well It's not a core or even supported app, I think. It's a third-party app. I really can't help with that. yes, I know. I'll check ... I have about 10 application to recompile. I forgot to mention that the keyboard froze after pressing ALT+F2 and switching language settings Please, please comment on this bug: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=205369 The problem is that it was not iresponsive for just 10secs but forever. I see. Does that happen often, or only that once? For now it has happened twice ... it could be that I have installed/configured something after logging in the first time. What is happening permanently is that if I click the logout button the whole desktop freezes. I have to press CTRL+ALT+F[1-6] to restart kdm What I am missing now is also the old behavior from CTRL+ALT+DEL to get prompt for reboot or shutdown - or whatever. Now this combination is locking the screen. Was it adopted from newer windows? Thanks. It will stay unusable for you until you tell us what you need to use it! That's what I'm here for. Well, - kplayer was not working for DVB input. - korganizer does not start - kweather and kmoon are not visible (can not choose to activate), though it states it's installed. - ALL kde apps like kplayer/organizer and probably others start very slowly about 20-30secs to pop up I'm sorry but I can not test anything that fast. it will take few weeks. I will probably test upgrading (As I said) from lenny to squeeze to sid. To simulate an upgrade of my current system. I think this is more important. This will take a while, so my plan for now is to see what basically works and what not. regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/hsdvg7$dp...@dough.gmane.org
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
deloptes schreef: I forgot to mention that the keyboard froze after pressing ALT+F2 and switching language settings Please, please comment on this bug: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=205369 The problem is that it was not iresponsive for just 10secs but forever. I see. Does that happen often, or only that once? For now it has happened twice ... it could be that I have installed/configured something after logging in the first time. What is happening permanently is that if I click the logout button the whole desktop freezes. I have to press CTRL+ALT+F[1-6] to restart kdm That's strange. Try to play with kdm options, and by creating a new profile (move your .kde). It might be that a program refuses to shut down and is causing the trouble What I am missing now is also the old behavior from CTRL+ALT+DEL to get prompt for reboot or shutdown - or whatever. Now this combination is locking the screen. Was it adopted from newer windows? This is a change in xorg. A google gives you lots of hits, eg: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=539762 Thanks. It will stay unusable for you until you tell us what you need to use it! That's what I'm here for. Well, - kplayer was not working for DVB input. - korganizer does not start - kweather and kmoon are not visible (can not choose to activate), though it states it's installed. - ALL kde apps like kplayer/organizer and probably others start very slowly about 20-30secs to pop up I really think you need to create a new profile. I am not seeing any of this, having a kweather applet constantly on my desk, tried kmoon and booting kde apps usually 2 sec. Sjoerd signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On 12 May 2010 13:21, deloptes delop...@yahoo.com wrote: What I am missing now is also the old behavior from CTRL+ALT+DEL to get prompt for reboot or shutdown - or whatever. Now this combination is locking the screen. Was it adopted from newer windows? No, that still works on my 4.4 system. Thanks. It will stay unusable for you until you tell us what you need to use it! That's what I'm here for. Well, - kplayer was not working for DVB input. That I can't test, sorry. No hardware. - korganizer does not start - kweather and kmoon are not visible (can not choose to activate), though it states it's installed. Did you add them to the panel, as widgets? - ALL kde apps like kplayer/organizer and probably others start very slowly about 20-30secs to pop up I think that you have something borked in your install. I'm sorry but I can not test anything that fast. it will take few weeks. I'll be here. At that time you might want to start a new thread and please CC me. -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktiljza6og_ixzbj4me4i_0txcigqbvvmsx7to...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Wed May 12 2010 11:47:27 Dotan Cohen wrote: On 12 May 2010 13:21, deloptes delop...@yahoo.com wrote: - ALL kde apps like kplayer/organizer and probably others start very slowly about 20-30secs to pop up I think that you have something borked in your install. Are you testing in Squeeze or Sid or something else? --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005121212.33363.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
Sjoerd Hardeman wrote: - ALL kde apps like kplayer/organizer and probably others start very slowly about 20-30secs to pop up I really think you need to create a new profile. I am not seeing any of this, having a kweather applet constantly on my desk, tried kmoon and booting kde apps usually 2 sec. I've installed with debootstrap and tested with a fresh created profile. however I'll try removing the .kde4 directory and start over. It's possible that some things were not completely installed and configured when I logged in for the first time. regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/hsev7b$dv...@dough.gmane.org
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
Freeman wrote: On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 10:40:51PM -0700, evenso wrote: On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 02:43:32AM +0200, deloptes wrote: . . . when is squeeze becoming stable?? According to officialdom, approximately when the number of R-C bugs hits 300. That is the green line here: http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/ . Process trumps schedules. OK, started looking around and found a better answer. :-) http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2010/05/msg0.html Thank a lot really useful. I did install yesterday sid 4.4 it's a headache ... so I'll wait until it works at least half the way. I'll try squeeze (kde4.3) but I think it was told that it's not pretty food yet. So to me it looks like we can safely use kde3 the next 2-3 years. regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/hsbasj$bv...@dough.gmane.org
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
Dotan Cohen wrote: Hi, Dotan. I'm not sure what makes you work for KDE but I hope that you can bring our word to them. I have really a problem talking to programmers and software people (in most of the cases), because they already think in routines ... so the logic behind there thinking is not a human rationality but a 0 || 1 On 8 May 2010 15:32, consul tores consultor...@gmail.com wrote: the windows are absolutely useless, i can not use many, they have all kind of useless information; What useless information? I'd like to fix that if you will be more specific. Useless is all the bullsh*t that makes kde4 nice but useless. Why one would develop eyecandies or tons of absolutely stupid games, but don't focus on improving basic functionality and also debian people ... I want to ask you how I can let my notebook configure and mount network shares (nfs) before I login ... I've tried to discuss this but all I was preached was networkmanager is good. It's not as it works user-level the menu, needs 3 times more clicks than 3.5; Can you be more specific? Are you referring to Kmenu? i.e. konsole-kde3.5 you click down left on the icon and you have a context menu to open a new session. What do I need akonadi or nepomuk or whatever else. All the crap _must_ be disabled and let the people enable it themselves. the time to be ready to use is 5 times than 3.5; Do you mean the load time of the desktop? I do agree that it takes a long time (and the starting Akonaki takes even longer!), but I do not remember KDE 3 starting so fast either. The new Gnome starts in seconds! It's not the freedom anymore from kde3.5. Why kde team does not work on compatibility with 3.5 at least in the functional perspective ... no they program any kind of stupid and useless sh*t. I really like kde but I'm very disappointed from the mentalilty they show in kde4 and how they've pushed it and also that people agreed and accepted this. In my case, kde 4.x indicate me when is time to change Desktop, i am going to stay with 3.5 still support finish, and then to test others desktops which follow the kiss principle. Jo, Jo, Jo. When you do that, please mail me (privately or on list with CC to me privately) to let me know what features other desktops have that you like. I'd like to incorporate them into KDE. Thanks. I highly recommend testing Gnome Shell, which will be Gnome 3. A lot of people are very happy with it. Ion and Enlightenment are popular too, each for their own reasons. XFCE and the boxen might be a little lacking if you are used to KDE 3. Dotan, please, be nice. KDE should stay simple to use and to look at. Possible solution is to enable default profiles somewhere and to focus on really important things. I'll get a list of things that I have problem with by the end of the week. I've installed it using debootstrap sid yesterday. I then pulled the kde4 by doing kde-all and deselecting all the things I don't want to have. I could send you a package list if you like. It hung few times while installing with dselect (specifically when installing policy-kit and bluez/kdebluetooth) so I removed them to complete installation 1) after logging in it complains about some ConsoleKit missing. 2) I started organizer and went in 20 minutes to bed. In the morning it was already running wow if I knew I would run it with time to see how long it takes to start 3) I've installed kweather ... but no applet available. where is it. Why should kde do this ugly thing with the widgets from the panel I'm sending you a screenshot of my toolbar and I'm not moving to anything else until I have those apps in the new version. Many other questions to follow - I hope you have patience and talk to kde guys, because I couldn't stand their young undeveloped developers brains regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/hsbc1b$ho...@dough.gmane.org
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
deloptes wrote: screenshot - I need at least those app/lets working to even start thinking of using kde - teatime - weather - moon - clock/calendar - wireless manager - skype - korganizer - kwallet - cpu monitor - infrared control - powermanagement - keyboard - screen management (xrandr interface) - krypt I forgot to mention that the keyboard froze after pressing ALT+F2 and switching language settings A HUGE trouble I see is with the keyboard layout for my mother language bulgarian Who the hell have change the default keyboard layout for the phonetic setup? I've been using this for years now hen I press W I get seomthing different .. _THIS_ _IS_ _REALLY_ _ODD_ - _STUPID_ _MONKEYS_! regards attachment: testing47.png
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On 10 May 2010 23:41, consul tores consultor...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/5/9 Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com: On 8 May 2010 22:35, consul tores consultor...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/5/8 Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com: What useless information? I'd like to fix that if you will be more specific. Who are you figuring out you are, man? A KDE contributor who is trying to help make KDE suitable for you. If you do not appreciate that then I can just buzz right off, no hard feelings. I did not ask you for help, the message was for other person, and it was a comment; then you are not helping; you are an intruder, and a troll, of course. I'll not bother you again, then. -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktikalvonvz3sleovu8nrrnoh8xczdedjb--gt...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On 11 May 2010 13:37, deloptes delop...@yahoo.com wrote: Dotan Cohen wrote: Hi, Dotan. I'm not sure what makes you work for KDE but I hope that you can bring our word to them. I have really a problem talking to programmers and software people (in most of the cases), because they already think in routines ... so the logic behind there thinking is not a human rationality but a 0 || 1 Nobody makes me, I do it for fun. On 8 May 2010 15:32, consul tores consultor...@gmail.com wrote: the windows are absolutely useless, i can not use many, they have all kind of useless information; What useless information? I'd like to fix that if you will be more specific. Useless is all the bullsh*t that makes kde4 nice but useless. Why one would develop eyecandies or tons of absolutely stupid games, but don't focus on improving basic functionality and also debian people ... If you please tell me what basic functionality is missing in KDE 4.4 then I will do my best to fix that. But I can only work with specific examples, for me KDE 4.4 and even 4.3 had all the basic functionality that I need. What, specifically, is missing for you? I want to ask you how I can let my notebook configure and mount network shares (nfs) before I login ... I've tried to discuss this but all I was preached was networkmanager is good. It's not as it works user-level The KDE networkmanager is really not that good, I use wicd myself. In any case, back to the question, that would be Debian-specific and not a KDE issue. I'm not evading, it's simply not my field. the menu, needs 3 times more clicks than 3.5; Can you be more specific? Are you referring to Kmenu? i.e. konsole-kde3.5 you click down left on the icon and you have a context menu to open a new session. Which Icon? The New Tab icon? You might also be interested in this, regarding Konsole sessions: http://saschpe.wordpress.com/2010/05/06/konsoles-user-interface-changes/ What do I need akonadi or nepomuk or whatever else. All the crap _must_ be disabled and let the people enable it themselves. You might be interested in this as well: http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2010/05/i-dont-need-no-stinking-nepomuk-right.html Note that Akonadi is _not_ enabled by default, and that Nepomuk uses only 2 MB of memory in KDE trunk, which will be KDE 4.5. As much problems as those two have given us, it's finally solved! Do you mean the load time of the desktop? I do agree that it takes a long time (and the starting Akonaki takes even longer!), but I do not remember KDE 3 starting so fast either. The new Gnome starts in seconds! It's not the freedom anymore from kde3.5. Why kde team does not work on compatibility with 3.5 at least in the functional perspective ... no they program any kind of stupid and useless sh*t. Compatibility in what sense? Please, without a specific example I cannot even begin to answer the question. I really like kde but I'm very disappointed from the mentalilty they show in kde4 and how they've pushed it and also that people agreed and accepted this. I know, KDE 3 was simply abandoned. The devs were very arrogant. One even went so far as to say that KDE doesn't need users. Thankfully, that bit is almost two years behind us now, though. When you do that, please mail me (privately or on list with CC to me privately) to let me know what features other desktops have that you like. I'd like to incorporate them into KDE. Thanks. I highly recommend testing Gnome Shell, which will be Gnome 3. A lot of people are very happy with it. Ion and Enlightenment are popular too, each for their own reasons. XFCE and the boxen might be a little lacking if you are used to KDE 3. Dotan, please, be nice. KDE should stay simple to use and to look at. Possible solution is to enable default profiles somewhere and to focus on really important things. Default Konsole profiles? And please, what are the really important things for you? For me all the really important things have long since been taken care of. I'll get a list of things that I have problem with by the end of the week. Thanks! I'll be here! I've installed it using debootstrap sid yesterday. I then pulled the kde4 by doing kde-all and deselecting all the things I don't want to have. I could send you a package list if you like. Actually, I'd rather that - if your intention is to help me fix issues - that you'd simply install the whole default setup. That was the bugs that you do find will be KDE bugs and not custom-setup bugs. If you are installing for daily usage, of course, then install just what suits you. It hung few times while installing with dselect (specifically when installing policy-kit and bluez/kdebluetooth) so I removed them to complete installation 1) after logging in it complains about some ConsoleKit missing. 2) I started organizer and went in 20 minutes to bed. In the morning it was already running wow if I knew I would run it with time to
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On 11 May 2010 13:50, deloptes delop...@yahoo.com wrote: deloptes wrote: screenshot - I need at least those app/lets working to even start thinking of using kde - teatime p kteatime - KDE 4 utility for making a fine cup of tea - weather http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/yaWP+%28Yet+Another+Weather+Plasmoid%29?content=94106 - moon Check! - clock/calendar Check! - wireless manager Knetworkmanager works, but I prefer wicd, which has integration in KDE's System Settings. It's in the system tray, not on the panel. You can configure it to always show, though. - skype Integrated into Kopete! - korganizer Check! - kwallet Check! - cpu monitor Check, but you might want to comment here: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=172312 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=191341 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=191342 - infrared control How did you do this in KDE 3? - powermanagement Check! - keyboard i plasma-widget-kbstate - A plasma widget that shows the state of the modifier keys - screen management (xrandr interface) Yes, built into System Settings. - krypt http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/Krypt?content=80641 I forgot to mention that the keyboard froze after pressing ALT+F2 and switching language settings Please, please comment on this bug: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=205369 A HUGE trouble I see is with the keyboard layout for my mother language bulgarian Who the hell have change the default keyboard layout for the phonetic setup? I've been using this for years now hen I press W I get seomthing different .. _THIS_ _IS_ _REALLY_ _ODD_ - _STUPID_ _MONKEYS_! I don't speak Bulgarian, so I cannot reproduce. Please file a bug! -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktinoxmbie3v2htcnli-955bwcfwkhxlpg7prc...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
Dotan Cohen wrote: I'm going to write a list and post it here. ATM I can not start korganizer. I have some time, so I would like to test 4.4. Thanks for pointing me to known bugs. I really don't have the patience to search. p kteatime - KDE 4 utility for making a fine cup of tea yes, I can not live without a good cup of tea :-) - weather http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/yaWP+%28Yet+Another+Weather+Plasmoid%29?content=94106 This was not working in 4.3 and I couldn't start it in 4.4. - moon Check! agreed - clock/calendar Check! agreed - wireless manager Knetworkmanager works, but I prefer wicd, which has integration in KDE's System Settings. It's in the system tray, not on the panel. You can configure it to always show, though. I think I've seen this already, I'll test. thanks. - skype Integrated into Kopete! - korganizer Check! it took at least 10min to start - kwallet Check! - cpu monitor Check, but you might want to comment here: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=172312 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=191341 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=191342 I'll check, thanks - infrared control How did you do this in KDE 3? with klirc and lircd and modifying the kernel key map for my cinergy xxs dvbt card ;-) a big challenge was to setup the kde keys ... it's not very developed, but the basic functionality works - powermanagement Check! - keyboard i plasma-widget-kbstate - A plasma widget that shows the state of the modifier keys In kde3 the idiots didn't think of us poor people not using latin and associated per default ALT+K to switch the keymap. Now if you switch from english to rushian/bulgarian or whatever ALT+K gives a completely different keycode ... So I had to always change this. Now in kde4 it's even better. You have to click ... and no reasonable language switching combination is working. In this point Windows wins, as it's per default configured to switch languages when typing (left)ALT+SHIFT - screen management (xrandr interface) Yes, built into System Settings. yes but not working for me and everybody running i915 vga card. this is also related to X-Server and the a**holes from intel. (don't judge me the notebook was given to me from the company I'm working for :-( ) - krypt http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/Krypt?content=80641 the question is if it is compiling in kde4? and also if it is working well I forgot to mention that the keyboard froze after pressing ALT+F2 and switching language settings Please, please comment on this bug: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=205369 The problem is that it was not iresponsive for just 10secs but forever. A HUGE trouble I see is with the keyboard layout for my mother language bulgarian Who the hell have change the default keyboard layout for the phonetic setup? I've been using this for years now hen I press W I get seomthing different .. _THIS_ _IS_ _REALLY_ _ODD_ - _STUPID_ _MONKEYS_! I don't speak Bulgarian, so I cannot reproduce. Please file a bug! I'll look to get a complete list. We'll have to discuss also the stuff we don't need too. this was my first impression. the conclusion is that it will stay unusable for quite a long time yet. your commitment is motivating me to do some testing ... may be it's time to have some closer look at upcoming testing debian. I'm still not that motivated as I would love to be, as I'm primary focused on debian stable. regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/hscd3u$mo...@dough.gmane.org
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 22:02, deloptes delop...@yahoo.com wrote: In kde3 the idiots didn't think of us poor people not using latin and associated per default ALT+K to switch the keymap. Now if you switch from english to rushian/bulgarian or whatever ALT+K gives a completely different keycode ... So I had to always change this. Maybe I don't understand what you mean, but I switch between English and German layout with ctrl-alt-k and have been doing so since early KDE 3 or late KDE 2. Richard -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktila_pdpjhlx_q0nsjg3gxvdn_eyhczmlsv8d...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
Richard Hartmann wrote: On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 22:02, deloptes delop...@yahoo.com wrote: In kde3 the idiots didn't think of us poor people not using latin and associated per default ALT+K to switch the keymap. Now if you switch from english to rushian/bulgarian or whatever ALT+K gives a completely different keycode ... So I had to always change this. Maybe I don't understand what you mean, but I switch between English and German layout with ctrl-alt-k and have been doing so since early KDE 3 or late KDE 2. Richard yes, exactly that's what I mean. the latin k has no equivalent in other languages (in terms of key code). Windows is doing this wisely since the beginning by setting the switch to ALT+SHIFT, which is language independent. I like the abbility to change things in kde, so I preffer to set it to ALT+CTRL+(richt arrow). In your case german k is equivalent to english k thus switch is working, for all people using latin. I don't know if it's working for greek or hebrew. If someone can report it would be interesting to know. regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/hscp3v$2l...@dough.gmane.org
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
deloptes wrote: I also think the 4.4 version is pretty usable and as soon as all applications that I need are usable I will move to kde4. Second impression is pretty good. For sure there are many small things to do but it looks and feels ok. I'll look forward to test and file bugs on it and try to get the environment I'm using now prepared for the move. What I was thinking of is that it would be better to test upgrades from lenny to squeeze and then to sid, because it's not only kde that's changing. I'll have to rebuild and retest the environment. Did someone know about a german festival version? I have some sources and it's always a pain to compile. regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/hscqe1$6e...@dough.gmane.org
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On 11 May 2010 23:02, deloptes delop...@yahoo.com wrote: - weather http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/yaWP+%28Yet+Another+Weather+Plasmoid%29?content=94106 This was not working in 4.3 and I couldn't start it in 4.4. Interesting, it works on the Ubuntu box I test KDE on. - korganizer Check! it took at least 10min to start Wow. Any console output? - infrared control How did you do this in KDE 3? with klirc and lircd and modifying the kernel key map for my cinergy xxs dvbt card ;-) a big challenge was to setup the kde keys ... it's not very developed, but the basic functionality works Please, your input is needed here: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=197885 i plasma-widget-kbstate - A plasma widget that shows the state of the modifier keys In kde3 the idiots didn't think of us poor people not using latin and associated per default ALT+K to switch the keymap. Now if you switch from english to rushian/bulgarian or whatever ALT+K gives a completely different keycode ... So I had to always change this. Now in kde4 it's even better. You have to click ... and no reasonable language switching combination is working. In this point Windows wins, as it's per default configured to switch languages when typing (left)ALT+SHIFT I switch between languages with the Capslock key. עובד גם בעברית! Работает тоже по Русский! - screen management (xrandr interface) Yes, built into System Settings. yes but not working for me and everybody running i915 vga card. this is also related to X-Server and the a**holes from intel. (don't judge me the notebook was given to me from the company I'm working for :-( ) I don't think that's a KDE issue, though. http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/Krypt?content=80641 the question is if it is compiling in kde4? and also if it is working well It's not a core or even supported app, I think. It's a third-party app. I really can't help with that. I forgot to mention that the keyboard froze after pressing ALT+F2 and switching language settings Please, please comment on this bug: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=205369 The problem is that it was not iresponsive for just 10secs but forever. I see. Does that happen often, or only that once? I'll look to get a complete list. We'll have to discuss also the stuff we don't need too. this was my first impression. the conclusion is that it will stay unusable for quite a long time yet. your commitment is motivating me to do some testing ... may be it's time to have some closer look at upcoming testing debian. I'm still not that motivated as I would love to be, as I'm primary focused on debian stable. Thanks. It will stay unusable for you until you tell us what you need to use it! That's what I'm here for. -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktilipkfmlb_1rbbrhkns-vzvvqegfhbjzgkpk...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On 12 May 2010 02:26, deloptes delop...@yahoo.com wrote: yes, exactly that's what I mean. the latin k has no equivalent in other languages (in terms of key code). Windows is doing this wisely since the beginning by setting the switch to ALT+SHIFT, which is language independent. I like the abbility to change things in kde, so I preffer to set it to ALT+CTRL+(richt arrow). In your case german k is equivalent to english k thus switch is working, for all people using latin. I don't know if it's working for greek or hebrew. If someone can report it would be interesting to know. In Hebrew it's also problematic, that's why I switch to Capslock. -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktilyxgg5n2xdwclgdv-oatsqrc-yfzcnjwwep...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On 8 May 2010 22:35, consul tores consultor...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/5/8 Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com: On 8 May 2010 15:32, consul tores consultor...@gmail.com wrote: the windows are absolutely useless, i can not use many, they have all kind of useless information; What useless information? I'd like to fix that if you will be more specific. Who are you figuring out you are, man? A KDE contributor who is trying to help make KDE suitable for you. If you do not appreciate that then I can just buzz right off, no hard feelings. the menu, needs 3 times more clicks than 3.5; Can you be more specific? Are you referring to Kmenu? If this were a kde list, i could take you seriously, but it is not! The go ahead and post to k...@mail.kde.org or debian-...@lists.debian.org, I'm subscribed to both. the time to be ready to use is 5 times than 3.5; Do you mean the load time of the desktop? I do agree that it takes a long time (and the starting Akonaki takes even longer!), but I do not remember KDE 3 starting so fast either. The new Gnome starts in seconds! As i said before! This is a Debian list! Wow, sorry for trying to help. In my case, kde 4.x indicate me when is time to change Desktop, i am going to stay with 3.5 still support finish, and then to test others desktops which follow the kiss principle. Jo, Jo, Jo. When you do that, please mail me (privately or on list with CC to me privately) to let me know what features other desktops have that you like. I'd like to incorporate them into KDE. Thanks. I highly recommend testing Gnome Shell, which will be Gnome 3. A lot of people are very happy with it. Ion and Enlightenment are popular too, each for their own reasons. XFCE and the boxen might be a little lacking if you are used to KDE 3. -- Dotan Cohen Who are you in reality? Do you really think that i am going to obey your orders? Orders? I asked what problems you have, so that I can fix them. You don't even have to file a bug, I was willing to do that for you. Go look at the bugs that I've posted in reply to other peoples' issues. Go look at who is filing them. Oh, sorry, you might take that as an order and get offended. -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktikbibu6r8olmtazfxtom3revmz_eoudf1leb...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
:-) Well said! And is there not a list rule that replies should go only to the list unless a copy is specifically requested? I find having these commands arriving in my personal (as opposed to list) folder a nuisance. I filter for a reason! Sorry for CCing to you messages that are meant for you, Lisi. If you haven't noticed the mailing list headers are broken and Reply sends messages off list. Therefore I use Reply All and oh nos, you get CCed. I apologize for sending to you commands in your personal folder to tell me what is wrong with KDE 4 for you so that I might fix it. Fell free to just plonk me away, I take no offence. -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktimvjhyrngdmxsmpkblacbe5sfjqktef1brgt...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
where is the copy-files option in 'edit', dolphin in kde4.x (in 3.5 edit copy files in konqueror) or did my old eyes look not sharp enough? In KDE 4.4.2 I have Edit - Copy in both Dolphin and in Konqueror. Can you send to me a screenshot of your Edit menu? What KDE version? -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktilkr7l-6xd86z4xze9buji0eewylwkuk3rim...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On 9 May 2010 17:00, Lisi lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: I do *not* ask otherwise and Dotan has been sending long, rude, unpleasant emails direct to me. What long, rude, unpleasant emails have I sent to you? Go ahead, post everything that I've ever sent to you here. I've sent mails only as long as the demands of your comments have warranted, filled only with questions about what is broken for you in KDE 4 and links to bugs on those very subjects. Rude or unpleasant? I think that you have me mistaken. I'll give to you the benefit of the doubt, publish something that you think I wrote to you which is rude or unpleasant. That is what I am complaining about. As I said above, *I* have been getting them from Dotan, as you correctly state: *Lisi* shreef . *I* have been getting them. According to list policy I should not be getting them. In addition, the last one was sent to the KDE list (to which I do not subscribe) and not to this, which is the list with the thread. Perhaps you should read Dotan's last two emails to me (especially the last one) before complaining about my complaint. Which messages exactly? last two is hard to identify given the dynamic nature of this list. And my crime?? For which you too clearly feel that I should be subjected to the unpleasant bullying in emails direct to me? I use KDE 3, but do not intend to use KDE 4. All I did was ask about what issues you have with KDE 4 so that I might fix them. You don't have to appreciate that, but I do not expect you to turn it around and call that rude and unpleasant. Maybe you don't like KDE contributors taking an interest in your problems with the software. Many other people do. -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktinlpz0dvlenuabxlqgdbfihk334ddbyiwkd4...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On 9 May 2010 18:02, Lisi lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: I have already forwarded them to the list and would gladly send them on to you if you were to ask me to do so. But list policy is to stay on list unless requested to do otherwise. ;-) The last one in particular was personal, rude and unpleasant. He is not simply quote collecting issues with KDE4 and filing the to the devs./quote He is doing that, but in addition he is bullying people most unpleasantly if they do not do his bidding. I do not use KDE 4 and have no wish to do so. Please quote where I bullied you. The only thing I could have done differently (other than not send that very short and mild complaint) is bow down to Dotan and agree that I have no right to dislike KDE 4, because he does not find my reasons valid. I tried to end this by simply not replying, but even that did not rescue me - he sent another email, to which I again did not reply. What more could I do, other than be very rude myself, to make him go away? I expect you to dislike KDE 4, as it does not suit your needs! That is quite why I ask what your problems are, so that I might fix them. I have never disputed your reasons, rather, I agree that your reasons are valid and are cause for concern. The only thing that I disagreed with you was on default settings of composting, and even in that context I offered to personally design a KDE default configuration for you that you could have composting disabled before loading KDE for the first time. Rude? Unpleasant? I bend over backwards to help you. I do not have to give him reasons for my dislike. I dislike KDE 4 and do not use it. That is surely my right? I dislike fennel. No-one tries to force-feed me with it! I clearly stated that my intention is not to try to convince you to use KDE 4, rather, that my intention is to learn about the problems that you have with KDE 4 so that I might fix them. You don't have to help me fix KDE 4, but it is only to your own benefit to do so. Contributors of what other software have asked you personally about your problems with the software? And surely I have no duty to help Dotan in his single minded ambition to impose KDE 4 on all the world? Many of us do not use it. Several people have been very helpful in sending me comments (_on_ list) on other possibilities. If he is truly doing what he is doing from altruistic motives, then surely he must only help (help) those who want his help, not bully those who don't. No problem, I won't help you any more. You never expressed your desire that I might not communicate with you, other than complaining that I do. I get the point, don't worry, I won't ask you about KDE 4 any more. -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktilhj-ylay1qhsys-6fl5ungninhddmylwc2_...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Monday 10 May 2010 07:25:42 Dotan Cohen wrote: :-) Well said! And is there not a list rule that replies should go only : to the list unless a copy is specifically requested? I find having these commands arriving in my personal (as opposed to list) folder a nuisance. I filter for a reason! Sorry for CCing to you messages that are meant for you, Lisi. If you haven't noticed the mailing list headers are broken and Reply sends messages off list. Therefore I use Reply All and oh nos, you get CCed. I apologize for sending to you commands in your personal folder to tell me what is wrong with KDE 4 for you so that I might fix it. Fell free to just plonk me away, I take no offence. So how come that your most offensive email was _not_ sent to this list, but to the KDE list? You clearly have some control over the behaviour of your email client. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005100746.38154.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On 9 May 2010 19:06, Mike Bird mgb-deb...@yosemite.net wrote: On Sun May 9 2010 06:18:27 Sjoerd Hardeman wrote: It is a list rule to reply only to list *unless asked otherwise*. In this case, Dotan asks otherwise, so what's the problem. That is factually incorrect. Dotan has replied to me+list on several occasions without permission. I did not know that I needed your permission to reply to you. From the comments here I believe he annoys others similarly. I apologize for annoying you with questions about what does not work for you in KDE. Feel free to file your own bugs, to live with the problems, or to find a suitable replacement. I mean that sincerely, no hard feelings. There are lots of good DEs around, we are in a golden era of Linux desktop development. -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktilctovhqqeav21seu2zj96d73hu0v4lvqjvg...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On 10 May 2010 09:46, Lisi lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry for CCing to you messages that are meant for you, Lisi. If you haven't noticed the mailing list headers are broken and Reply sends messages off list. Therefore I use Reply All and oh nos, you get CCed. I apologize for sending to you commands in your personal folder to tell me what is wrong with KDE 4 for you so that I might fix it. Fell free to just plonk me away, I take no offence. So how come that your most offensive email was _not_ sent to this list, but to the KDE list? You clearly have some control over the behaviour of your email client. I usually simply hit Reply All, as that ensures that the message will at a minimum go to the list no matter which list I'm posting on. If I know to which letter you were referring, I might be able to answer you with more detail. As I don't know to which letter you refer, then we can assume that the Reply-To headers of the message had that list. Only now am I delibertely changing the CC of the message, as you requested not to CC you. Otherwise, my choices are Reply (only to lisi.re...@~) or to Reply All (to lisi.re...@~ and to debian-u...@~) so you see that I _cannot_ reply to the list without replying to you if I do not manually edit the CC list. -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktimed-dgdpkwvybsxcseg6hazmovgnqqiekli...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Mon,10.May.10, 09:25:42, Dotan Cohen wrote: Sorry for CCing to you messages that are meant for you, Lisi. If you haven't noticed the mailing list headers are broken and Reply sends messages off list. Therefore I use Reply All and oh nos, you get CCed. http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html http://woozle.org/~neale/papers/reply-to-still-harmful.html (no, I don't want to start *that* discussion yet again; interested people can just search the archives) I can't tell what mailer you are using, but most of the FLOSS mailers have reply-to-list. Regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
Dotan Cohen wrote: On 8 May 2010 22:35, consul tores consultor...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/5/8 Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com: On 8 May 2010 15:32, consul tores consultor...@gmail.com wrote: the windows are absolutely useless, i can not use many, they have all kind of useless information; What useless information? I'd like to fix that if you will be more specific. Who are you figuring out you are, man? A KDE contributor who is trying to help make KDE suitable for you. If you do not appreciate that then I can just buzz right off, no hard feelings. Hi, this was the most useless part of this thread that I have ever read. 2-3 mails are ok but about 30 is too much. I also think that KDE team maid a mistake in dropping support on the 3 line. Still I'm sure all of us would be able to use it for the next 4-5 years (probably with backporting). Unfortunately as it has been stated, we can not stop the time and there are just few options to take. Either prepare for using backported kde3 or look forward to get KDE4 behave like kde3 did or similarly. Definitely Dotans way is the better from my point of view and I believe that kde4.5 will be as usable as kde3.5 is. There was a discussion right after they brought the 4.0 out and everybody was criticizing it. then there was a public campaign (may be still in youtube) where kde spokesman explained the motivation behind and as kde is for free I completely understood it. If someone does not like what kde is doing then he/she is not understanding how opensource is moving in the future. I didn't have time to try it yet this weekend ... may be I'll go for a live cd to check first or finish my usb drive setup. I also think the 4.4 version is pretty usable and as soon as all applications that I need are usable I will move to kde4. kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/hs8km4$2h...@dough.gmane.org
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Sun, May 09, 2010 at 03:18:27PM +0200, Sjoerd Hardeman wrote: Op 08-05-10 23:42, Lisi schreef: On Saturday 08 May 2010 20:35:47 consul tores wrote: Dotan Cohen Who are you in reality? Do you really think that i am going to obey your orders? :-) Well said! And is there not a list rule that replies should go only to the list unless a copy is specifically requested? I find having these commands arriving in my personal (as opposed to list) folder a nuisance. I filter for a reason! It is a list rule to reply only to list *unless asked otherwise*. In this case, Dotan asks otherwise, so what's the problem. Please, folks, manners! And even talking about it is against the code: If you want to complain to someone who sent you a carbon copy when you did not ask for it, do it privately. -- Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet. -- Napoleon Bonaparte -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100510111202.gb18...@fischer
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 09:46:59AM +0300, Dotan Cohen wrote: On 9 May 2010 19:06, Mike Bird mgb-deb...@yosemite.net wrote: That is factually incorrect. Dotan has replied to me+list on several occasions without permission. I did not know that I needed your permission to reply to you. From the comments here I believe he annoys others similarly. I apologize for annoying you with questions about what does not work for you in KDE. No no no, Mike is referring to the CC'ing annoying others NOT the message content being annoying. Is there a few people trying to give up smoking? People seem a bit more touchy than usual. ... hmmm. -- Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet. -- Napoleon Bonaparte -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100510113650.gc18...@fischer
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
Dotan Cohen schreef: where is the copy-files option in 'edit', dolphin in kde4.x (in 3.5 edit copy files in konqueror) or did my old eyes look not sharp enough? In KDE 4.4.2 I have Edit - Copy in both Dolphin and in Konqueror. Can you send to me a screenshot of your Edit menu? What KDE version? hi dotan: that is not exactly what i mean: i was not clear enough: so another time: i mean in kde 3.5 in the same row as 'copy' under 'edit' the 'copy files' possibility that i cannot find back in kde4.x.x i'll look at exact the version of kde 4.x.x later. this version of kde 4.x.x is on another (non-production) machine with os debian_sid, up to date. thanks for your answer, kind regards, steef -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4be7eff3.3020...@home.nl
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On 10 May 2010 14:37, steef debian.li...@home.nl wrote: Dotan Cohen schreef: where is the copy-files option in 'edit', dolphin in kde4.x (in 3.5 edit copy files in konqueror) or did my old eyes look not sharp enough? In KDE 4.4.2 I have Edit - Copy in both Dolphin and in Konqueror. Can you send to me a screenshot of your Edit menu? What KDE version? hi dotan: that is not exactly what i mean: i was not clear enough: so another time: i mean in kde 3.5 in the same row as 'copy' under 'edit' the 'copy files' possibility that i cannot find back in kde4.x.x i'll look at exact the version of kde 4.x.x later. this version of kde 4.x.x is on another (non-production) machine with os debian_sid, up to date. thanks for your answer, kind regards, steef What does copy files do then? Describe to me what it does and I will see if Dolphin can do that, or if it is reasonable I will file a feature request. Thanks. -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktilllqtvyzdv2ffgb35-evdqvsps049l20mlp...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Mon May 10 2010 05:48:37 Dotan Cohen wrote: What does copy files do then? Describe to me what it does and I will see if Dolphin can do that, or if it is reasonable I will file a feature request. Did you not know KDE has a builtin help system? Or are you trolling? Edit-Copy Files (F7) Copy the selected item(s) to another folder. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005100608.18500.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
Dotan Cohen schreef: On 10 May 2010 14:37, steef debian.li...@home.nl wrote: Dotan Cohen schreef: where is the copy-files option in 'edit', dolphin in kde4.x (in 3.5 edit copy files in konqueror) or did my old eyes look not sharp enough? In KDE 4.4.2 I have Edit - Copy in both Dolphin and in Konqueror. Can you send to me a screenshot of your Edit menu? What KDE version? hi dotan: that is not exactly what i mean: i was not clear enough: so another time: i mean in kde 3.5 in the same row as 'copy' under 'edit' the 'copy files' possibility that i cannot find back in kde4.x.x i'll look at exact the version of kde 4.x.x later. this version of kde 4.x.x is on another (non-production) machine with os debian_sid, up to date. thanks for your answer, kind regards, steef What does copy files do then? Describe to me what it does and I will see if Dolphin can do that, or if it is reasonable I will file a feature request. See http://www.lorentz.leidenuniv.nl/~sjoerd/files/schermafdruk.png. Translation of the popup-box: copy selected files in /home/sjoerd to: Cheers! Sjoerd signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
Sjoerd Hardeman schreef: Dotan Cohen schreef: On 10 May 2010 14:37, steef debian.li...@home.nl wrote: Dotan Cohen schreef: where is the copy-files option in 'edit', dolphin in kde4.x (in 3.5 edit copy files in konqueror) or did my old eyes look not sharp enough? In KDE 4.4.2 I have Edit - Copy in both Dolphin and in Konqueror. Can you send to me a screenshot of your Edit menu? What KDE version? hi dotan: that is not exactly what i mean: i was not clear enough: so another time: i mean in kde 3.5 in the same row as 'copy' under 'edit' the 'copy files' possibility that i cannot find back in kde4.x.x i'll look at exact the version of kde 4.x.x later. this version of kde 4.x.x is on another (non-production) machine with os debian_sid, up to date. thanks for your answer, kind regards, steef What does copy files do then? Describe to me what it does and I will see if Dolphin can do that, or if it is reasonable I will file a feature request. See http://www.lorentz.leidenuniv.nl/~sjoerd/files/schermafdruk.png. Translation of the popup-box: copy selected files in /home/sjoerd to: Cheers! Sjoerd thanks sjoerd, steef -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4be80970.5090...@home.nl
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
Dotan Cohen schreef: On 10 May 2010 14:37, steefdebian.li...@home.nl wrote: Dotan Cohen schreef: where is the copy-files option in 'edit', dolphin in kde4.x (in 3.5 edit copy files in konqueror) or did my old eyes look not sharp enough? In KDE 4.4.2 I have Edit -Copy in both Dolphin and in Konqueror. Can you send to me a screenshot of your Edit menu? What KDE version? hi dotan: that is not exactly what i mean: i was not clear enough: so another time: i mean in kde 3.5 in the same row as 'copy' under 'edit' the 'copy files' possibility that i cannot find back in kde4.x.x i'll look at exact the version of kde 4.x.x later. this version of kde 4.x.x is on another (non-production) machine with os debian_sid, up to date. thanks for your answer, kind regards, steef What does copy files do then? Describe to me what it does and I will see if Dolphin can do that, or if it is reasonable I will file a feature request. Thanks. look at (in my files) the next mail from sjoerd hardeman [un. of leiden (netherlands)] thank you, steef -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4be80a26.7030...@home.nl
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On 10 May 2010 16:08, Mike Bird mgb-deb...@yosemite.net wrote: On Mon May 10 2010 05:48:37 Dotan Cohen wrote: What does copy files do then? Describe to me what it does and I will see if Dolphin can do that, or if it is reasonable I will file a feature request. Did you not know KDE has a builtin help system? From the fine manual that you refer to: The Edit Menu Edit-Undo (Ctrl+Z) Undoes the last action performed by Dolphin. Edit-Cut (Ctrl+X) Cuts the currently selected item(s). Edit-Copy (Ctrl+C) Copies the currently selected item(s). Edit-Paste Clipboard Contents... (Ctrl+V) Pastes the currently copied/cut items to the current folder. If the clipboard does not contain files or folders, the clipboard contents (such as text or image data) will be pasted into a new file. Edit-Select All (Ctrl+A) Selects all files and folders in the current folder. Edit-Invert Selection (Ctrl+Shift+A) Selects all unselected items and deselects all selected items in the current folder. Or are you trolling? You keep using that word. I don't think that it means what you think it means. Edit-Copy Files (F7) Copy the selected item(s) to another folder. I can only assume that came from the KDE 3 manual, which I don't have installed locally as I've stated that I am running KDE 4. Sure, I could have stfw for it or installed KDE 3, but so could the parent poster install KDE 4 and file his own bugs. I'm trying to help him, if you haven't noticed, and your interference is not appreciated. I have no problem with you looking for opportunities to attack me, but please don't do that at Steef's expense. -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktilxuukbz_wpzltm3m66mclpc0niqrfosnet9...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
See http://www.lorentz.leidenuniv.nl/~sjoerd/files/schermafdruk.png. Translation of the popup-box: copy selected files in /home/sjoerd to: Here one would type the names of files that he wishes to copy? Does he then perform a normal paste operation in the destination folder? One _work_around_ if this is a critical feature would be to press F4 to open a terminal pane in Dolphin, then use the cp command as need. They let the user type out the name of the files to be copied, assuming that is the critical feature here. As a bonus you also have tab-completion and mv! If I'm missing the gist of the feature then please tell me what I'm missing. It certainly doesn't look like a killer feature from what I understand, but of course that is subjective. If it provides something important I'll file a bug report. -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktinp3olqbjyum2chxjm44j3h7eykljnmbhbls...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Seg, 10 Mai 2010, Dotan Cohen wrote: See http://www.lorentz.leidenuniv.nl/~sjoerd/files/schermafdruk.png. Translation of the popup-box: copy selected files in /home/sjoerd to: Here one would type the names of files that he wishes to copy? Does he then perform a normal paste operation in the destination folder? One _work_around_ if this is a critical feature would be to press F4 to open a terminal pane in Dolphin, then use the cp command as need. They let the user type out the name of the files to be copied, assuming that is the critical feature here. As a bonus you also have tab-completion and mv! If I'm missing the gist of the feature then please tell me what I'm missing. It certainly doesn't look like a killer feature from what I understand, but of course that is subjective. If it provides something important I'll file a bug report. I never used the feature (I generally do all my file management with cp, mv, etc.), but I believe it worked like this: the user selecs some files, activates that option, and provides a folder in the dialog. The selected files are then copied to the specified folder. Nothing that can't be done in other ways inside the same file mangaer; it's a convenience feature. -- Coming together is a beginning; keeping together is progress; working together is success. Eduardo M KALINOWSKI edua...@kalinowski.com.br -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100510113233.724818vvfj0f7...@mail.kalinowski.com.br
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
I never used the feature (I generally do all my file management with cp, mv, etc.), but I believe it worked like this: the user selecs some files, activates that option, and provides a folder in the dialog. The selected files are then copied to the specified folder. Nothing that can't be done in other ways inside the same file mangaer; it's a convenience feature. I see now. Here, comment on this bug: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=237115 Thanks! -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktimpru71nbyw-p4apiww_v-uapt7yen6hag6l...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Monday 10 May 2010 01:53:05 Dotan Cohen wrote: [M]y choices are Reply (only to lisi.re...@~) or to Reply All (to lisi.re...@~ and to debian-u...@~) so you see that I _cannot_ reply to the list without replying to you if I do not manually edit the CC list. You should get a better client. Irrespective of your choice of client, it is *your* responsibility to follow the Code of Conduct. This includes only sending CC's to posters the request it. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 07:46:37AM +0100, Lisi wrote: On Monday 10 May 2010 07:25:42 Dotan Cohen wrote: :-) Well said! And is there not a list rule that replies should go only : to the list unless a copy is specifically requested? I find having these commands arriving in my personal (as opposed to list) folder a nuisance. I filter for a reason! Sorry for CCing to you messages that are meant for you, Lisi. If you haven't noticed the mailing list headers are broken and Reply sends messages off list. Therefore I use Reply All and oh nos, you get CCed. I apologize for sending to you commands in your personal folder to tell me what is wrong with KDE 4 for you so that I might fix it. Fell free to just plonk me away, I take no offence. So how come that your most offensive email was _not_ sent to this list, but to the KDE list? You clearly have some control over the behaviour of your email client. Dejavu. -- Kind Regards, Freeman http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100510174939.ga21...@europa.office
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Mon May 10 2010 07:14:32 Dotan Cohen wrote: I can only assume that came from the KDE 3 manual, which I don't have installed locally as I've stated that I am running KDE 4. Sure, I could have stfw for it or installed KDE 3, but so could the parent poster install KDE 4 and file his own bugs. If you want to compare KDE 3.5 and KDE 4 then please install both. If you want to discuss KDE 4 please do so in a KDE 4 thread. I'm trying to help him, if you haven't noticed, and your interference is not appreciated. I have no problem with you looking for opportunities to attack me, but please don't do that at Steef's expense. I sent you the help text you asked for. That is not interfering. And for the n+1'th time please stop CC'ing me when replying to list. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005101135.01382.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On 10 May 2010 19:56, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. b...@iguanasuicide.net wrote: You should get a better client. Irrespective of your choice of client, it is *your* responsibility to follow the Code of Conduct. This includes only sending CC's to posters the request it. I'll make an effort to edit the CC list, but I'll lapse when I get lazy! Thanks, Boyd. -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktikj84ozjsfnvjfxqyctbbosq_czfbxk07ilg...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
2010/5/9 Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com: On 8 May 2010 22:35, consul tores consultor...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/5/8 Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com: What useless information? I'd like to fix that if you will be more specific. Who are you figuring out you are, man? A KDE contributor who is trying to help make KDE suitable for you. If you do not appreciate that then I can just buzz right off, no hard feelings. I did not ask you for help, the message was for other person, and it was a comment; then you are not helping; you are an intruder, and a troll, of course. Can you be more specific? Are you referring to Kmenu? If this were a kde list, i could take you seriously, but it is not! The go ahead and post to k...@mail.kde.org or debian-...@lists.debian.org, I'm subscribed to both. Do you ask for orders? this is one, your speech is well known at wrongly named developed countries, where people eat people, and many like you used to use the peace flag to create wars! the time to be ready to use is 5 times than 3.5; Do you mean the load time of the desktop? I do agree that it takes a long time (and the starting Akonaki takes even longer!), but I do not remember KDE 3 starting so fast either. The new Gnome starts in seconds! As i said before! This is a Debian list! Wow, sorry for trying to help. As i said before, i did not ask you for help; then you are an intruder! In my case, kde 4.x indicate me when is time to change Desktop, i am going to stay with 3.5 still support finish, and then to test others desktops which follow the kiss principle. Jo, Jo, Jo. When you do that, please mail me (privately or on list with CC to me privately) to let me know what features other desktops have that you like. I'd like to incorporate them into KDE. Thanks. I highly recommend testing Gnome Shell, which will be Gnome 3. A lot of people are very happy with it. Ion and Enlightenment are popular too, each for their own reasons. XFCE and the boxen might be a little lacking if you are used to KDE 3. You can see it again, more orders, because i did not ask for your help, and one easily can distinguish that your speech is absolutely untruthful and obscure; it is not a plain language. Classic capitalist language, where you can not be sane. Where you are sorry if you do not have power in your hands, specialy if you are from an oldest lineage. It is enough to see how you mix post to appear as a suffered helper, come on be a man. Accept that you are insane! -- Dotan Cohen Who are you in reality? Do you really think that i am going to obey your orders? Orders? I asked what problems you have, so that I can fix them. You don't even have to file a bug, I was willing to do that for you. Go look at the bugs that I've posted in reply to other peoples' issues. Go look at who is filing them. Oh, sorry, you might take that as an order and get offended. Again, why do you think that you have the right to help me, if i did not ask for help? it could be better if you say the true, you want to look as an important person in the world, that is all. -- Dotan Cohen if you have some more manipulating speech or something more to say, please send it to my private email address, i never read them, and we stop trolling. francisco -- Consultores Agropecuarios. Administracion, Produccion, Capacitacion. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktimhgmfwxc8qt2is291vpro0sgndhlg_gzpsv...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
squeeze seem to have 4.3 inside. Did you mean sid to test future functionality that will probably go into 4.5?? kdebase-runtime-data 4:4.3.4-2 etc. I'll check sid next. when is squeeze becoming stable?? regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/hsa97l$ea...@dough.gmane.org
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 02:43:32AM +0200, deloptes wrote: . . . when is squeeze becoming stable?? regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/hsa97l$ea...@dough.gmane.org According to officialdom, approximately when the number of R-C bugs hits 300. That is the green line here: http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/ . Process trumps schedules. -- Kind Regards, Freeman http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100511054051.ga14...@europa.office
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 10:40:51PM -0700, evenso wrote: On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 02:43:32AM +0200, deloptes wrote: . . . when is squeeze becoming stable?? According to officialdom, approximately when the number of R-C bugs hits 300. That is the green line here: http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/ . Process trumps schedules. OK, started looking around and found a better answer. :-) http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2010/05/msg0.html -- Kind Regards, Freeman http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100511055911.ga17...@europa.office
Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
I seem not to have forwarded this, although I forwarded the others. And Dotan seems to have circulated it, but not to here. So, for completeness in the thread, herewith: -- Forwarded Message -- Subject: Re: Kde 3.5 ... Date: Friday 07 May 2010 From: Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com To: Lisi lisi.re...@gmail.com, debian-...@lists.debian.org On 7 May 2010 19:54, Lisi lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: That boils down to it's on by default. Just go turn them off. But I have to _look_ at them to turn them off. In KDE 3 I do not. I can turn them off without ever having to see them. Yes, you do have to look at them once. And the defaults do not have wobbly windows, wavy effects, or anything shimmering. Nothing spins either, but the Alt-tab dialogue does slide. There is plenty of transparency, though, and I hate that too. So I turn it off. My mother suffers from what she calls vertigo and the effects do not upset her. Nor do they upset the autistics that I volunteer with. They are merely an annoyance to those annoyed by them, nothing wild. Bully for your mother and your autistics. They make me feel sick and trigger a bad headache. The effects do make you feel sick? The only effects you will see to get to the System Settings is the transparency. I have a lot of experience in environmentally-induced reactions (my mother, autistics, and by the way I am a trained medic though I currently do not work in the field), and I simply do not believe that transparency will cause a reaction. Nothing flashes or spins, which are the two established and recognized visual triggers. It works that way in KDE 4 as well, so long as you have opened them from Krunner in the past. That is how I open all my applications. They do not. They are much more complicated than in KDE 3 and you have to type more to be offered anything. You are right, you must type the first three letters in KDE 4. 4. Alt+F1 does not bring up the menu. It's Alt-F5 for the Kmenu. Has been since KDE 3 I think. No, it's alt+F1 in KDE 3.5.x. Alt+F5, which I also like and use a lot, brings up a list of running windows. Thanks, I'm a good year removed from KDE 3. In any case, you can set Alt-F1 as the Kmenu shortcut. 5. Kcontrol no longer exists. It's called System Settings, and with the Tree menu it's very similar. It is being reworked for KDE 4.5, so if you have any suggestions then now is the time to make them! But I don't _like_ KDE 4 and I do, very much, like KDE 3. I like Kcontrol better than those work-arounds. That's why I'm here. I'm not trying to push you into using KDE 4. I'm trying to learn what you dislike about KDE 4 so that I can file issues and get things fixed. But I won't do that on trivial things, such as non-essential default settings. etc etc. Tell me more! Why? You will only tell me that I have not got your petrmission to dislike/miss whatever it is. No, if you tell me about usability issues, regressions, or just plain bugs in KDE 4 I will work to resolve them. I have filed or triages over 1300 bugs in KDE, most for users and not for myself. I have not evaded the question. I have pointed out that I prefer things that are functional to things that are showy. You did not point out what is not functional. I am here to fix KDE 4. I am not here for philosophy. As I stated at the beginning. As someone else has pointed out, KDE 4 has had 2 years to become half way bearable and has signally failed. I mourn the passing of KDE 3.5.x, which I regard as the pinnacle of DE's. In other words, we have come full circle and are back at the beginning. You have to learn to accept that not everyone agrees with you. I don't want you to agree with me. I want you to point out the problems so that I can fix them. And, I fear that the lengths you are going to to try and persuade me that I am wrong, even to the extent of telling me that I am only allowed to be made ill by something that also makes your mother ill, do not strike me as helping me. I am not trying to persuade you to do anything other than share your KDE problems with me, so that I might get them resolved. KDE 3 holdouts are holding out because they are sensitive to the little usability issues that make a great desktop environment. I need that input so that I might get KDE 4 as great as KDE 3. I want to know what is not intuitive, and what doesn't work. -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com --- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005091021.21748.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
Op 08-05-10 23:42, Lisi schreef: On Saturday 08 May 2010 20:35:47 consul tores wrote: Dotan Cohen Who are you in reality? Do you really think that i am going to obey your orders? :-) Well said! And is there not a list rule that replies should go only to the list unless a copy is specifically requested? I find having these commands arriving in my personal (as opposed to list) folder a nuisance. I filter for a reason! It is a list rule to reply only to list *unless asked otherwise*. In this case, Dotan asks otherwise, so what's the problem. Please, folks, manners! Sjoerd signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
sjoerd: completely agreed! steef van duin Sjoerd Hardeman schreef: Op 08-05-10 23:42, Lisi schreef: On Saturday 08 May 2010 20:35:47 consul tores wrote: Dotan Cohen Who are you in reality? Do you really think that i am going to obey your orders? :-) Well said! And is there not a list rule that replies should go only to the list unless a copy is specifically requested? I find having these commands arriving in my personal (as opposed to list) folder a nuisance. I filter for a reason! It is a list rule to reply only to list *unless asked otherwise*. In this case, Dotan asks otherwise, so what's the problem. Please, folks, manners! Sjoerd -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4be6b9ca.7010...@home.nl
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
Dotan Cohen schreef: No - that is the problem!! I loved KDE 3.5.x and have become quite slick with it. KDE 4 is different. I don't like it. If I have to, in effect, change DE, and go through the learning curve again, there is no reason why it would have to be to KDE 4. This is a very valid point that seems to be lost on some devs. Other than the logo, not much is the same between KDE 3 and 4. I will contend that moving to KDE 4 would be no different that moving to any other DE. You will notice that I've never pressured you to move to KDE 4, I have only pressured you to tell me what is problematic in KDE 4. I do that for the simple reason that I help improve KDE 4, and to bring it up to par with KDE 3. I do not think that any other desktop has the ambition to be what KDE 3 was. When the time comes that I cannot sensibly go on using KDE 3, I shall chose where I go next on the basis of what the options are looking like at the time. That is wise, and you might enjoy Gnome Shell, that will become Gnome 3. It is very different from KDE 3, but a lot of people really love it. I can see little liklihood that that choice will be KDE 4. I may even switch to a window manager without a DE, and chose other ways of working, if that is the only way that I can avoid the glitz that is now all the rage. You will have to better define glitz. Assuming that you mean composting, then if your intention is to avoid the glitz, you can do that in KDE 4. In fact, I think that even XFCE comes with composting support and integration. How things look is very important to me. I have problems with my eyes, and how a thing looks can influence whether I can work on a thing for one minute, ten minutes or an hour. Then you will have to adjust the default settings of any DE, KDE is not exception here. I have no problem with other people liking and wanting to use KDE 4. I have a problem with their, in some cases, not allowing me the freedom _not_ to use it. And I personally shall mourn the passing of KDE 3. Like I said, I am not pressuring you to use KDE 4. I just want to know what doesn't work for you. And now I know, or I think that I do: you don't like composting. Would you like me to send to you a KDE config with composting disabled, that you can enable via CLI before logging in the first time? where is the copy-files option in 'edit', dolphin in kde4.x (in 3.5 edit copy files in konqueror) or did my old eyes look not sharp enough? regards, steef -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4be6bab0.9070...@home.nl
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Sunday 09 May 2010 14:18:27 Sjoerd Hardeman wrote: Op 08-05-10 23:42, Lisi schreef: On Saturday 08 May 2010 20:35:47 consul tores wrote: Dotan Cohen Who are you in reality? Do you really think that i am going to obey your orders? :-) Well said! And is there not a list rule that replies should go only : to the list unless a copy is specifically requested? I find having these commands arriving in my personal (as opposed to list) folder a nuisance. I filter for a reason! ^^^ It is a list rule to reply only to list *unless asked otherwise*. In this case, Dotan asks otherwise, so what's the problem. I do *not* ask otherwise and Dotan has been sending long, rude, unpleasant emails direct to me. That is what I am complaining about. As I said above, *I* have been getting them from Dotan, as you correctly state: *Lisi* shreef . *I* have been getting them. According to list policy I should not be getting them. In addition, the last one was sent to the KDE list (to which I do not subscribe) and not to this, which is the list with the thread. Perhaps you should read Dotan's last two emails to me (especially the last one) before complaining about my complaint. And my crime?? For which you too clearly feel that I should be subjected to the unpleasant bullying in emails direct to me? I use KDE 3, but do not intend to use KDE 4. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005091500.32195.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
Op 09-05-10 16:00, Lisi schreef: It is a list rule to reply only to list *unless asked otherwise*. In this case, Dotan asks otherwise, so what's the problem. I do *not* ask otherwise and Dotan has been sending long, rude, unpleasant emails direct to me. That is what I am complaining about. As I said above, *I* have been getting them from Dotan, as you correctly state: *Lisi* shreef . *I* have been getting them. According to list policy I should not be getting them. In addition, the last one was sent to the KDE list (to which I do not subscribe) and not to this, which is the list with the thread. There you have a point. Perhaps you should read Dotan's last two emails to me (especially the last one) before complaining about my complaint. Well, that's kind of hard since they are sent to you. Unless you want me to hack your mailbox ;) And my crime?? For which you too clearly feel that I should be subjected to the unpleasant bullying in emails direct to me? I use KDE 3, but do not intend to use KDE 4. As far as I have seen the mails of Dotan on this list (the one I'm following), he is currently collecting issues with KDE4 and filing the to the devs. That in principle is something good, I suppose. What I have seen is that Dotan might be a bit persistent in getting the bugs of of you and others. What I have seen from you is that you also weren't completely friendly all the time. That's why I thought that a 'manners' mail would be appropriate. I am not going to judge who has begun and who is to blame. I'm just observing that a valid discussion (what's different in KDE4 and how can it be improved) is getting out of hand. And it's also up to you to fix that. Anyway, what's the crime of using KDE3.5? Nothing, except that it's not supported anymore. Sjoerd signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Sunday 09 May 2010 15:30:35 Sjoerd Hardeman wrote: Perhaps you should read Dotan's last two emails to me (especially the last one) before complaining about my complaint. Well, that's kind of hard since they are sent to you. Unless you want me to hack your mailbox ;) And my crime?? For which you too clearly feel that I should be subjected to the unpleasant bullying in emails direct to me? I use KDE 3, but do not intend to use KDE 4. As far as I have seen the mails of Dotan on this list (the one I'm following), he is currently collecting issues with KDE4 and filing the to the devs. I have already forwarded them to the list and would gladly send them on to you if you were to ask me to do so. But list policy is to stay on list unless requested to do otherwise. ;-) The last one in particular was personal, rude and unpleasant. He is not simply quote collecting issues with KDE4 and filing the to the devs./quote He is doing that, but in addition he is bullying people most unpleasantly if they do not do his bidding. I do not use KDE 4 and have no wish to do so. The only thing I could have done differently (other than not send that very short and mild complaint) is bow down to Dotan and agree that I have no right to dislike KDE 4, because he does not find my reasons valid. I tried to end this by simply not replying, but even that did not rescue me - he sent another email, to which I again did not reply. What more could I do, other than be very rude myself, to make him go away? I do not have to give him reasons for my dislike. I dislike KDE 4 and do not use it. That is surely my right? I dislike fennel. No-one tries to force-feed me with it! And surely I have no duty to help Dotan in his single minded ambition to impose KDE 4 on all the world? Many of us do not use it. Several people have been very helpful in sending me comments (_on_ list) on other possibilities. If he is truly doing what he is doing from altruistic motives, then surely he must only help (help) those who want his help, not bully those who don't. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005091602.50128.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
Op 09-05-10 17:02, Lisi schreef: On Sunday 09 May 2010 15:30:35 Sjoerd Hardeman wrote: Perhaps you should read Dotan's last two emails to me (especially the last one) before complaining about my complaint. Well, that's kind of hard since they are sent to you. Unless you want me to hack your mailbox ;) And my crime?? For which you too clearly feel that I should be subjected to the unpleasant bullying in emails direct to me? I use KDE 3, but do not intend to use KDE 4. As far as I have seen the mails of Dotan on this list (the one I'm following), he is currently collecting issues with KDE4 and filing the to the devs. I have already forwarded them to the list and would gladly send them on to you if you were to ask me to do so. But list policy is to stay on list unless requested to do otherwise. ;-) Then I have seen them. Yes, he's a bit persistent, that's for sure. But really bullying? Anyway, it is not for me to judge if you feel bullied. And as I hopefully made clear, the manners comment was surely not just for you. It's just an attempt to keep the discussion on KDE instead of a flame war or something similarly unpleasant. He is doing that, but in addition he is bullying people most unpleasantly if they do not do his bidding. I do not use KDE 4 and have no wish to do so. That's surely your right. The only thing I could have done differently (other than not send that very short and mild complaint) is bow down to Dotan and agree that I have no right to dislike KDE 4, because he does not find my reasons valid. I tried to end this by simply not replying, but even that did not rescue me - he sent another email, to which I again did not reply. What more could I do, other than be very rude myself, to make him go away? Well, some of your reasons weren't valid. There were several this doesn't work-claims which just work, at least on my testing install. Which does not mean that there are no reasons why kde4 is good for you. The problem I had with some of the comments were that they were unfair. That something doesn't do as it did somewhere else is not necessarily a bad thing. Anyway, let's close this discussion here. I surely agree that KDE4 has is strengths and weaknesses, and based on your daily routine and preferences this can be a problem. As with any other DE. I don't like gnome, which doesn't mean that gnome is bad. It's just bad for me. Sjoerd signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Sun, May 09, 2010 at 15:00:31 +0100, Lisi wrote: [...] I do *not* ask otherwise and Dotan has been sending long, rude, unpleasant emails direct to me. That is what I am complaining about. On-list complaints about unsolicited CC'ing are also against the code of conduct, so you are at least as rude as Dotan is, and you are bullying all of us to read what should be a private complaint. Pot, meet kettle. As I said above, *I* have been getting them from Dotan, as you correctly state: *Lisi* shreef . *I* have been getting them. According to list policy I should not be getting them. In addition, the last one was sent to the KDE list (to which I do not subscribe) and not to this, which is the list with the thread. People sometimes make mistakes about CC'ing, especially when they are having what is essentially the same discussion on two different mailing lists. There is a reason why the rule to stop public complaints about CC'ing has been added to the code of conduct; Joey Hess has posted an informative commentary: http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2010/03/msg01846.html Perhaps you should read Dotan's last two emails to me (especially the last one) before complaining about my complaint. I do not see what is so rude about these emails; I have the impression that Dotan is genuinely interested, if maybe a bit overeager, to make sure at all possible usability issues of KDE4 are addressed or at least documented on the upstream BTS. If you first complain about the usability of KDE4 and then you are offended when people who want to improve the usability of KDE4 ask you about details, then maybe you should not have complained publicly in the first place. What did you hope to achieve with your complaints if you are not willing to work constructively on the resolution of the problems that you experience? And my crime?? For which you too clearly feel that I should be subjected to the unpleasant bullying in emails direct to me? I use KDE 3, but do not intend to use KDE 4. That is fine, of course, but why do you bother the list with your grievances if your mind is already made up and you are not willing to work with the people who care about making KDE4 better? Do you just want to use the list as your personal agony aunt? -- Regards,| Florian | -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100509152040.ga1...@bavaria.univ-lyon1.fr
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Sun May 9 2010 06:18:27 Sjoerd Hardeman wrote: It is a list rule to reply only to list *unless asked otherwise*. In this case, Dotan asks otherwise, so what's the problem. That is factually incorrect. Dotan has replied to me+list on several occasions without permission. From the comments here I believe he annoys others similarly. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005090906.14455.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Sun May 9 2010 08:20:40 Florian Kulzer wrote: (snip) That is fine, of course, but why do you bother the list with your grievances if your mind is already made up and you are not willing to work with the people who care about making KDE4 better? Do you just want to use the list as your personal agony aunt? This is a Debian list, not a KDE list. A lot of people care about not making Debian worse, and are thereafter taking the time and making the effort to present the case for not deleting KDE 3.5 from Debian. While the KDE devs have gone on to new and sillier pastures, KDE 3.5 is apparently maintained at least by the Trinity project and it is possible that either Trinity or other solutions may yet be developed that will avoid the planned harm to Debian. This is a worthwhile discussion for a Debian list. I would suggest, however, that follow ups if any be directed to the more focused forum of debian-kde, to which I have cross-posted this message. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005090918.06704.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Sun, May 09, 2010 at 09:18:05 -0700, Mike Bird wrote: On Sun May 9 2010 08:20:40 Florian Kulzer wrote: (snip) That is fine, of course, but why do you bother the list with your grievances if your mind is already made up and you are not willing to work with the people who care about making KDE4 better? Do you just want to use the list as your personal agony aunt? This is a Debian list, not a KDE list. That is certainly true, but it seems to me that this argument cuts both ways, and can be applied just as well to the initial complaints. A lot of people care about not making Debian worse, and are thereafter taking the time and making the effort to present the case for not deleting KDE 3.5 from Debian. Probably true, but I do not see what that has to do with the specific remarks about one particular poster's behavior that you quoted from my last message. (I think it is clear from my complete message that the you quoted above is second person singular, not plural.) While the KDE devs have gone on to new and sillier pastures, KDE 3.5 is apparently maintained at least by the Trinity project and it is possible that either Trinity or other solutions may yet be developed that will avoid the planned harm to Debian. We will see. I have the feeling that the majority of people who cannot stand KDE4 will simply switch to one of the other fine DEs (or to Gnome) in the long run, so it may be difficult to maintain a big enough community of developers and users to keep the KDE3 projects alive. This is a worthwhile discussion for a Debian list. I never said that it was not. I was expressing my bewilderment with people who seem to get offended when someone offers to submit upstream bugs on their behalf if only they would tell him the details of their problems, just because he may have made a mistake with the CCs. Why not take him up on his offer, you have to do very little, he will do all the work? If that leads to some of your problems with KDE 4 being fixed then you may have one more acceptable alternative available in case the KDE3 zombie turns out to be unmaintainable after all. -- Regards,| Florian | -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100509193500.ga5...@bavaria.univ-lyon1.fr
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Sunday 09 May 2010 20:35:00 Florian Kulzer wrote: I never said that it was not. I was expressing my bewilderment with people who seem to get offended when someone offers to submit upstream bugs on their behalf if only they would tell him the details of their problems, just because he may have made a mistake with the CCs. Why not take him up on his offer, you have to do very little, he will do all the work? If that leads to some of your problems with KDE 4 being fixed then you may have one more acceptable alternative available in case the KDE3 zombie turns out to be unmaintainable after all. It was the tone of his letters that upset me. I will send you the bits that offended me most off-list. But he _was_ demanding that I should do what from my point of view was considerable work, while claiming that he was helping me. He also refused to accept the reasons I gave as valid. Why do I need to give him any reasons at all for my decisions? That is fine, of course, but why do you bother the list with your grievances if your mind is already made up and you are not willing to work with the people who care about making KDE4 better? Do you just want to use the list as your personal agony aunt? I did not bother the list with my grievances nor use the list as (my) personal agony aunt. I said (and I quote including the text to which I was replying): quote Maybe use dummy packages, or rename the packages so that KDE 3.5 could remain installed, and not be forced to upgrade to Kde4. No, there is not sane way and there is nobody interested on it. I would be. And do we not mean Squeeze? Lenny has KDE 3.5.10. I really feel sorry that KDE 3 series is no more being developed, and when the day cames that I no longer will be able to use KDE 3, I will switch to Apple or even Windows, but NEVER to kde4 or Gnome! (and I feel many users out there think like me!!!) You still have gnustep, xfce, lxde, no using any or simply never upgrade. I have looked at all those, in addition to KDE 4 and Gnome. None appeals to me. Each has something that I strongly dislike or does not have something that I like and use a lot. I would love to be able to upgrade to Squeeze if new(er) hardware dictates, but keep KDE 3.5. But I am not even almost tempted to go over to the dark side! I am, however, very sad that KDE 3.5, which I regard as the pinnacle of DE's, is being laid to rest. /quote I see no list of grievances. I said that I am sad that an option I like is no longer available. That is all, and Dotan landed on top of me. I have also said that I do not like various other WMs/DEs. I am not being forced to justify myself for not liking those others. All I did after that was insist that the discussion be carried on on-list, not off. I was clearly wrong to reply to Dotan at all, and I have learnt my lesson. Next time I will simply ignore him! But this time, even ignoring him did not make him go away. Some people on this list have been helpful and made suggestions as to what I might like to try. I am very grateful for it. It is a pity that you and one or two others did not check your facts. It is Dotan's right to work to improve KDE 4 if he so wishes, it is not my duty. Lisi
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Sun May 9 2010 02:35:02 pm Lisi wrote: I am, however, very sad that KDE 3.5, which I regard as the pinnacle of DE's, is being laid to rest. We are in agreement here Lisi. It's not that I don't like kde4 it's just that I'd like to keep what I have since it does just what I want/need it to do and kde4 is such a big change. We I'm running lenny like now I use kde3 and am so very happy with it. When I'm running squeeze or sid I run Gnome. I like Gnome but it's just not the same. I wish I could upgrade to squeeze without losing kde3, or that upgrading to kde4 wasn't such a radical change. I don't know for sure what to to when squeeze is released, I'll probably hang on to lenny for as long as it's feasible. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005091548.06791.agian...@gmail.com
Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
Sorry, list - sent to me privately again, and messing up my email client! -- Forwarded Message -- Subject: Re: Kde 3.5 ... Date: Friday 07 May 2010 From: Lisi lisi.re...@gmail.com To: Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com On Friday 07 May 2010 17:17:52 you wrote: On 7 May 2010 11:56, Lisi lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: On Thursday 06 May 2010 18:22:18 you wrote: You still have gnustep, xfce, lxde, no using any or simply never upgrade. I have looked at all those, in addition to KDE 4 and Gnome. None appeals to me. Each has something that I strongly dislike or does not have something that I like and use a lot. Please tell me what KDE 4.4 is missing, or what it has that you dislike. I can help address those issues. I doubt it, because I think that the problem is the basic philosophy. They have sacrificed funtionality in favour of glitz. E.g. 1. You cannot turn off all those horrible, and to me actually physically painful (I have problems with my eyes) special effects _before_ being subjected to them. (All that horrible wobbly, wavy, shimmery, spinning transparent glitz.) That boils down to it's on by default. Just go turn them off. But I have to _look_ at them to turn them off. In KDE 3 I do not. I can turn them off without ever having to see them. And the defaults do not have wobbly windows, wavy effects, or anything shimmering. Nothing spins either, but the Alt-tab dialogue does slide. There is plenty of transparency, though, and I hate that too. So I turn it off. My mother suffers from what she calls vertigo and the effects do not upset her. Nor do they upset the autistics that I volunteer with. They are merely an annoyance to those annoyed by them, nothing wild. Bully for your mother and your autistics. They make me feel sick and trigger a bad headache. 2. ctrl+tab does not move to the next window. Do you mean between tabs? Fixed: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=231541 3. alt+F2 is cumbersome and unhelpful. (In KDE 3.5.x I can type e.g. k and be presented with a list of all the applications that I have previously used beginning with k.) It works that way in KDE 4 as well, so long as you have opened them from Krunner in the past. That is how I open all my applications. They do not. They are much more complicated than in KDE 3 and you have to type more to be offered anything. 4. Alt+F1 does not bring up the menu. It's Alt-F5 for the Kmenu. Has been since KDE 3 I think. No, it's alt+F1 in KDE 3.5.x. Alt+F5, which I also like and use a lot, brings up a list of running windows. 5. Kcontrol no longer exists. It's called System Settings, and with the Tree menu it's very similar. It is being reworked for KDE 4.5, so if you have any suggestions then now is the time to make them! But I don't _like_ KDE 4 and I do, very much, like KDE 3. I like Kcontrol better than those work-arounds. etc etc. Tell me more! Why? You will only tell me that I have not got your petrmission to dislike/miss whatever it is. I am, however, very sad that KDE 3.5, which I regard as the pinnacle of DE's, is being laid to rest. Then help me shape it's successor. What is not suitable about KDE 4? Why would I rather have a Toyota hatchback (especially a hybrid one) than a two seater sports car? You evaded the question. I cannot help when you evade the question. I have not evaded the question. I have pointed out that I prefer things that are functional to things that are showy. As I stated at the beginning. As someone else has pointed out, KDE 4 has had 2 years to become half way bearable and has signally failed. I mourn the passing of KDE 3.5.x, which I regard as the pinnacle of DE's. In other words, we have come full circle and are back at the beginning. You have to learn to accept that not everyone agrees with you. And, I fear that the lengths you are going to to try and persuade me that I am wrong, even to the extent of telling me that I am only allowed to be made ill by something that also makes your mother ill, do not strike me as helping me. Lisi --- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005080859.00025.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
2010/5/7 godo go...@dobosevic.com: Please do not judge KDE4 by not being a copy of KDE 3.5. If that was the case, there would be no point in making a new version anyway. The important question is whether KDE lacks functionality that should be there (this includes, but is not limited to, functionality present in KDE 4) and if that's the case, file a bug report. But of course, don't be bothered if the functionality *looks* different. Again, if all the functionality would look the same, there would be no point creating a new version. Sjoerd I'm sorry, maybe I'm to new to all this stuff and to old fashioned but isn't the point in new version make her free of bugs, faster, lighter etc.? Whats happened to KISS? Yes, it is exact; kde 4.x is the most pathetic and useless that i have seen in my entire life; the windows are absolutely useless, i can not use many, they have all kind of useless information; the menu, needs 3 times more clicks than 3.5; the gadgets are absolutely useless, i prefer using sensors at command line; the time to be ready to use is 5 times than 3.5; the only one useful change that i have found is that konqueror works better in kde 4.x; only one single thing, bah. I could continue using kde 3.5 plus iceweasel! When I was on Windows I hate so much when in every new version everything was different and I was losing days to find old options. There are to much things that are useful in KDE 3 and now are gone. What was wrong with system:// in Konqueror, different background for different desktop, Quanta, less usage of ram, look and feel. All that stuff people love and use in everyday life. Is it cubic desktop switching useful? No it's just eye candy. I really can't see why is KDE 4 better. If anybody can please explain me because I really don't see even one reason. In my case, kde 4.x indicate me when is time to change Desktop, i am going to stay with 3.5 still support finish, and then to test others desktops which follow the kiss principle. Jo, Jo, Jo. One more thing, I don't wont offend anybody. That vas just my thought and thought of ather people that I see on the net since the KDE 4 came out. I know that this mail will not change the thought of developers and this is not reason why I was writhing it. -- Bye, Goran Dobosevic Hrvatski: www.dobosevic.com English: www.dobosevic.com/en/ Registered Linux User #503414 -- Consultores Agropecuarios. Administracion, Produccion, Capacitacion. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/g2icdeec9051005080532z810046edveb2a8ea4c51fa...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Sat, May 08, 2010 at 08:58:59AM +0100, Lisi wrote: I have not evaded the question. I have pointed out that I prefer things that are functional to things that are showy. In that case you might want to consider fvwm? -- Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet. -- Napoleon Bonaparte -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100508153659.gd20...@fischer
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
No - that is the problem!! I loved KDE 3.5.x and have become quite slick with it. KDE 4 is different. I don't like it. If I have to, in effect, change DE, and go through the learning curve again, there is no reason why it would have to be to KDE 4. This is a very valid point that seems to be lost on some devs. Other than the logo, not much is the same between KDE 3 and 4. I will contend that moving to KDE 4 would be no different that moving to any other DE. You will notice that I've never pressured you to move to KDE 4, I have only pressured you to tell me what is problematic in KDE 4. I do that for the simple reason that I help improve KDE 4, and to bring it up to par with KDE 3. I do not think that any other desktop has the ambition to be what KDE 3 was. When the time comes that I cannot sensibly go on using KDE 3, I shall chose where I go next on the basis of what the options are looking like at the time. That is wise, and you might enjoy Gnome Shell, that will become Gnome 3. It is very different from KDE 3, but a lot of people really love it. I can see little liklihood that that choice will be KDE 4. I may even switch to a window manager without a DE, and chose other ways of working, if that is the only way that I can avoid the glitz that is now all the rage. You will have to better define glitz. Assuming that you mean composting, then if your intention is to avoid the glitz, you can do that in KDE 4. In fact, I think that even XFCE comes with composting support and integration. How things look is very important to me. I have problems with my eyes, and how a thing looks can influence whether I can work on a thing for one minute, ten minutes or an hour. Then you will have to adjust the default settings of any DE, KDE is not exception here. I have no problem with other people liking and wanting to use KDE 4. I have a problem with their, in some cases, not allowing me the freedom _not_ to use it. And I personally shall mourn the passing of KDE 3. Like I said, I am not pressuring you to use KDE 4. I just want to know what doesn't work for you. And now I know, or I think that I do: you don't like composting. Would you like me to send to you a KDE config with composting disabled, that you can enable via CLI before logging in the first time? -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/i2t880dece01005080734g6724972ewc88208fccc8b7...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
The unexpected forced downgrade from KDE 3.5 to 4 in Sid actually ended up being a good thing for me. (the loss of the ability to have a different background for each desktop was a KDE showstopper. So the forced downgrade prompted me to actually take a serious look at other desktop environments. And had that not happened, I would not be using Enlightenment on all my Linux boxes today. I have become quite enamored with Enlightenment, and now see no need whatsoever to go back to KDE or switch to Gnome. Granted, I will happily use various KDE and Gnome based tools if needed. That is no big deal. But E (with the Steampunk theme) is now my environment of choice. :) Only drawback so far I have encountered is the inability to change the background color on the desktop if the wallpaper image does not fill the entire screen. It can be a bit hard on the eyes with that harsh white background, but I think I can get used to it. I understand that Enlightenment has a tiling feature. I would really like to hear more about that, there is effort to get tiling into KDE: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=165933 -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/g2l880dece01005080736g69bb926fxf2d5ceb654db1...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
I'm sorry, maybe I'm to new to all this stuff and to old fashioned but isn't the point in new version make her free of bugs, faster, lighter etc.? Whats happened to KISS? When I was on Windows I hate so much when in every new version everything was different and I was losing days to find old options. There are to much things that are useful in KDE 3 and now are gone. Please tell me what is missing for you. I will address those that you mention below, and I would appreciate if you mention others that you think of. Thanks. What was wrong with system:// in Konqueror, What did the system kioslave do? I don't have KDE 3 here to test. different background for different desktop, Fixed in KDE 4.4 or 4.5. Quanta, Being ported, and not a core KDE app in any case. less usage of ram, So long as you are not loading Qt3 libraries in addition to the Qt4 libraries, KDE 4 is lighter on RAM than KDE 3. You can really feel it, too. look and feel. It is subjective. You can generally configure KDE 4 to look like KDE 3. All that stuff people love and use in everyday life. You're not married, are you? :) That stuff never stops changing! Is it cubic desktop switching useful? No it's just eye candy. Actually, spatial organization is very useful as it is most natural for humans. Users who have shied away from multiple desktops love it. I really can't see why is KDE 4 better. If anybody can please explain me because I really don't see even one reason. Okular was my reason for switching, and that's saying a lot as KPDF was great. Kate is as it was for the most part, other that the new search-replace dialogue (that I don't like) and VIM mode (that I love). Kopete has Skype integration (needs Skype installed, though). I really like having different folders shown on the desktop. Nothing really compelling, but then again KDE 3 did not have any one really compelling feature. It's the sum of the parts. One more thing, I don't wont offend anybody. That vas just my thought and thought of ather people that I see on the net since the KDE 4 came out. I know that this mail will not change the thought of developers and this is not reason why I was writhing it. Your thoughts are appreciated, and they are valuable. I _want_ to know what keeps you on KDE 3, so that I can get it fixed in KDE 4. -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/s2o880dece01005080825r28cc86daj733b73f85821b...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On 8 May 2010 15:32, consul tores consultor...@gmail.com wrote: the windows are absolutely useless, i can not use many, they have all kind of useless information; What useless information? I'd like to fix that if you will be more specific. the menu, needs 3 times more clicks than 3.5; Can you be more specific? Are you referring to Kmenu? the time to be ready to use is 5 times than 3.5; Do you mean the load time of the desktop? I do agree that it takes a long time (and the starting Akonaki takes even longer!), but I do not remember KDE 3 starting so fast either. The new Gnome starts in seconds! In my case, kde 4.x indicate me when is time to change Desktop, i am going to stay with 3.5 still support finish, and then to test others desktops which follow the kiss principle. Jo, Jo, Jo. When you do that, please mail me (privately or on list with CC to me privately) to let me know what features other desktops have that you like. I'd like to incorporate them into KDE. Thanks. I highly recommend testing Gnome Shell, which will be Gnome 3. A lot of people are very happy with it. Ion and Enlightenment are popular too, each for their own reasons. XFCE and the boxen might be a little lacking if you are used to KDE 3. -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/q2t880dece01005080831zae8e27a7z35e6c132e9f0c...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Sat May 8 2010 08:25:07 Dotan Cohen wrote: So long as you are not loading Qt3 libraries in addition to the Qt4 libraries, KDE 4 is lighter on RAM than KDE 3. You can really feel it, too. Note that many Debian KDE 3.5 installations include both QT3 and QT4, e.g. to support kdebluetooth or lsb-desktop. If you upgrade your RAM from 1GB to 2GB, KDE 4 feels about as fast as KDE 3.5, except KDE 4 startup and KMail startup are still slower. One reason for needing additional RAM seems to be memory leaks, although whether in QT4 or KDE itself I don't know. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005080908.48771.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
And now to the list. Goran, my apologies Op 08-05-10 06:49, godo schreef: Please do not judge KDE4 by not being a copy of KDE 3.5. If that was the case, there would be no point in making a new version anyway. The important question is whether KDE lacks functionality that should be there (this includes, but is not limited to, functionality present in KDE 4) and if that's the case, file a bug report. But of course, don't be bothered if the functionality *looks* different. Again, if all the functionality would look the same, there would be no point creating a new version. Sjoerd I'm sorry, maybe I'm to new to all this stuff and to old fashioned but isn't the point in new version make her free of bugs, faster, lighter etc.? Whats happened to KISS? Well, that depends. When you have a fine app, tuning is good. However, when you make a new app, or think your app needs UI improvements, then you need to change stuff. Linux is not the same as Windows, which Linux is blamed for by some Windows enthusiasts. For me it is a good thing: if I want something similar to Windows, well, I use Windows. I think this is kind of the same situation. KDE 3.5 has its strengths and weaknesses. In order to reduce the amount of weaknesses, the devs thought a change was needed. KDE 3.5 also had some eye candy, most of it useless from the point of view of usability. Improvements like alt-tabbing trough screens where they are showed in some sort of stack is very useful to me, as you can quickly see which window you want. There are to much things that are useful in KDE 3 and now are gone. What was wrong with system:// in Konqueror, different background for different desktop, Quanta, less usage of ram, look and feel. All that stuff people love and use in everyday life. Is it cubic desktop switching useful? No it's just eye candy. Konqueror apparently got some TLC in 4.4, however I also regret that change. The ram usage of kde is not a problem to me, but then I have 4GB of it ;) I really can't see why is KDE 4 better. If anybody can please explain me because I really don't see even one reason. Well, useful eye candy, the search function in the menu, the ability to place widgets on the desktop and not only the taskbar. Also, for me it feels faster when it is running. KDE 3.5 sometimes was lagging. It might very well be that KDE 4 is hiding the lag behind eye candy, but it is about the feel, isn't it? Also, kile got improved a lot, I like the new mount dock thingy (I hated the annoying popups). Should I go on? Anyway, opinions differ. And that's of course what FOSS is all about: choice! Sjoerd signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
2010/5/8 Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com: On 8 May 2010 15:32, consul tores consultor...@gmail.com wrote: the windows are absolutely useless, i can not use many, they have all kind of useless information; What useless information? I'd like to fix that if you will be more specific. Who are you figuring out you are, man? the menu, needs 3 times more clicks than 3.5; Can you be more specific? Are you referring to Kmenu? If this were a kde list, i could take you seriously, but it is not! the time to be ready to use is 5 times than 3.5; Do you mean the load time of the desktop? I do agree that it takes a long time (and the starting Akonaki takes even longer!), but I do not remember KDE 3 starting so fast either. The new Gnome starts in seconds! As i said before! This is a Debian list! In my case, kde 4.x indicate me when is time to change Desktop, i am going to stay with 3.5 still support finish, and then to test others desktops which follow the kiss principle. Jo, Jo, Jo. When you do that, please mail me (privately or on list with CC to me privately) to let me know what features other desktops have that you like. I'd like to incorporate them into KDE. Thanks. I highly recommend testing Gnome Shell, which will be Gnome 3. A lot of people are very happy with it. Ion and Enlightenment are popular too, each for their own reasons. XFCE and the boxen might be a little lacking if you are used to KDE 3. -- Dotan Cohen Who are you in reality? Do you really think that i am going to obey your orders? -- Consultores Agropecuarios. Administracion, Produccion, Capacitacion. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/r2lcdeec9051005081235g62d95660z2ade200391e24...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Saturday 08 May 2010 20:35:47 consul tores wrote: Dotan Cohen Who are you in reality? Do you really think that i am going to obey your orders? :-) Well said! And is there not a list rule that replies should go only to the list unless a copy is specifically requested? I find having these commands arriving in my personal (as opposed to list) folder a nuisance. I filter for a reason! Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005082242.03196.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
Sorry list/Dotan. :-( I thought that I had persuaded my email client to send this to the list. (It wanted to send the reply to Dotan because he had sent a copy to me personally.) Lisi -- Forwarded Message -- Subject: Re: Kde 3.5 ... Date: Friday 07 May 2010 From: Lisi lisi.re...@gmail.com To: Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com On Thursday 06 May 2010 18:22:18 you wrote: You still have gnustep, xfce, lxde, no using any or simply never upgrade. I have looked at all those, in addition to KDE 4 and Gnome. None appeals to me. Each has something that I strongly dislike or does not have something that I like and use a lot. Please tell me what KDE 4.4 is missing, or what it has that you dislike. I can help address those issues. I doubt it, because I think that the problem is the basic philosophy. They have sacrificed funtionality in favour of glitz. E.g. 1. You cannot turn off all those horrible, and to me actually physically painful (I have problems with my eyes) special effects _before_ being subjected to them. (All that horrible wobbly, wavy, shimmery, spinning transparent glitz.) 2. ctrl+tab does not move to the next window. 3. alt+F2 is cumbersome and unhelpful. (In KDE 3.5.x I can type e.g. k and be presented with a list of all the applications that I have previously used beginning with k.) 4. Alt+F1 does not bring up the menu. 5. Kcontrol no longer exists. etc etc. I am, however, very sad that KDE 3.5, which I regard as the pinnacle of DE's, is being laid to rest. Then help me shape it's successor. What is not suitable about KDE 4? Why would I rather have a Toyota hatchback (especially a hybrid one) than a two seater sports car? Lisi --- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005071123.48345.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
Please tell me what KDE 4.4 is missing, or what it has that you dislike. I can help address those issues. I doubt it, because I think that the problem is the basic philosophy. They have sacrificed funtionality in favour of glitz. E.g. 1. You cannot turn off all those horrible, and to me actually physically painful (I have problems with my eyes) special effects _before_ being subjected to them. (All that horrible wobbly, wavy, shimmery, spinning transparent glitz.) Yep, that's true. But I need to wade trough unhelpfulness and ugliness before any window manager is doing what I want it to do. 2. ctrl+tab does not move to the next window. ??? Works fine here. 3. alt+F2 is cumbersome and unhelpful. (In KDE 3.5.x I can type e.g. k and be presented with a list of all the applications that I have previously used beginning with k.) It gives options here. And not only options used previously, as KDE 3.5 did. 4. Alt+F1 does not bring up the menu. ??? Works here 5. Kcontrol no longer exists. It's named differently, but what's the basic difference between the control panel and the system settings. Please do not judge KDE4 by not being a copy of KDE 3.5. If that was the case, there would be no point in making a new version anyway. The important question is whether KDE lacks functionality that should be there (this includes, but is not limited to, functionality present in KDE 4) and if that's the case, file a bug report. But of course, don't be bothered if the functionality *looks* different. Again, if all the functionality would look the same, there would be no point creating a new version. Sjoerd signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Friday 07 May 2010 12:28:03 Sjoerd Hardeman wrote: Please do not judge KDE4 by not being a copy of KDE 3.5. If that was the case, there would be no point in making a new version anyway. The important question is whether KDE lacks functionality that should be there (this includes, but is not limited to, functionality present in KDE 4) and if that's the case, file a bug report. But of course, don't be bothered if the functionality *looks* different. Again, if all the functionality would look the same, there would be no point creating a new version. No - that is the problem!! I loved KDE 3.5.x and have become quite slick with it. KDE 4 is different. I don't like it. If I have to, in effect, change DE, and go through the learning curve again, there is no reason why it would have to be to KDE 4. When the time comes that I cannot sensibly go on using KDE 3, I shall chose where I go next on the basis of what the options are looking like at the time. I can see little liklihood that that choice will be KDE 4. I may even switch to a window manager without a DE, and chose other ways of working, if that is the only way that I can avoid the glitz that is now all the rage. How things look is very important to me. I have problems with my eyes, and how a thing looks can influence whether I can work on a thing for one minute, ten minutes or an hour. I have no problem with other people liking and wanting to use KDE 4. I have a problem with their, in some cases, not allowing me the freedom _not_ to use it. And I personally shall mourn the passing of KDE 3. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005072313.11626.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Lisi lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: No - that is the problem!! I loved KDE 3.5.x and have become quite slick with it. KDE 4 is different. I don't like it. If I have to, in effect, change DE, and go through the learning curve again, there is no reason why it would have to be to KDE 4. When the time comes that I cannot sensibly go on using KDE 3, I shall chose where I go next on the basis of what the options are looking like at the time. I can see little liklihood that that choice will be KDE 4. I may even switch to a window manager without a DE, and chose other ways of working, if that is the only way that I can avoid the glitz that is now all the rage. How things look is very important to me. I have problems with my eyes, and how a thing looks can influence whether I can work on a thing for one minute, ten minutes or an hour. I have no problem with other people liking and wanting to use KDE 4. I have a problem with their, in some cases, not allowing me the freedom _not_ to use it. And I personally shall mourn the passing of KDE 3. The unexpected forced downgrade from KDE 3.5 to 4 in Sid actually ended up being a good thing for me. (the loss of the ability to have a different background for each desktop was a KDE showstopper. So the forced downgrade prompted me to actually take a serious look at other desktop environments. And had that not happened, I would not be using Enlightenment on all my Linux boxes today. I have become quite enamored with Enlightenment, and now see no need whatsoever to go back to KDE or switch to Gnome. Granted, I will happily use various KDE and Gnome based tools if needed. That is no big deal. But E (with the Steampunk theme) is now my environment of choice. :) Only drawback so far I have encountered is the inability to change the background color on the desktop if the wallpaper image does not fill the entire screen. It can be a bit hard on the eyes with that harsh white background, but I think I can get used to it. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/o2j5cf6328d1005071703y84c3ff84q2002145f39c3f...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
Please do not judge KDE4 by not being a copy of KDE 3.5. If that was the case, there would be no point in making a new version anyway. The important question is whether KDE lacks functionality that should be there (this includes, but is not limited to, functionality present in KDE 4) and if that's the case, file a bug report. But of course, don't be bothered if the functionality *looks* different. Again, if all the functionality would look the same, there would be no point creating a new version. Sjoerd I'm sorry, maybe I'm to new to all this stuff and to old fashioned but isn't the point in new version make her free of bugs, faster, lighter etc.? Whats happened to KISS? When I was on Windows I hate so much when in every new version everything was different and I was losing days to find old options. There are to much things that are useful in KDE 3 and now are gone. What was wrong with system:// in Konqueror, different background for different desktop, Quanta, less usage of ram, look and feel. All that stuff people love and use in everyday life. Is it cubic desktop switching useful? No it's just eye candy. I really can't see why is KDE 4 better. If anybody can please explain me because I really don't see even one reason. One more thing, I don't wont offend anybody. That vas just my thought and thought of ather people that I see on the net since the KDE 4 came out. I know that this mail will not change the thought of developers and this is not reason why I was writhing it. -- Bye, Goran Dobosevic Hrvatski: www.dobosevic.com English: www.dobosevic.com/en/ Registered Linux User #503414 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4be4ed6f.4050...@dobosevic.com