Re: GPG Keys..... was Re: Should I install chkrootkit?

2014-06-10 Thread Ralf Mardorf
On Tue, 2014-06-10 at 07:12 -0400, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> > For one thing, I don't think the real JS would send to me as well as
> > to the list.
> 
> I wouldn't do it on purpose, anyway :)

Or send top-posting HTML formatted mails. Or ...
The fake to be Jerry wasn't done very good, but it anyway caused enough
trouble.



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Re: GPG Keys..... was Re: Should I install chkrootkit?

2014-06-10 Thread Chris Angelico
On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 9:11 PM, Jerry Stuckle  wrote:
> On 6/10/2014 6:51 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 8:42 PM, Jerry Stuckle  wrote:
>>>> Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 06:18:23 +1000
>>>> Subject: Re: GPG Keys. was Re: Should I install chkrootkit?
>>>> From: ros...@gmail.com
>>>> CC: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>>>> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hmm, I'm not absolutely sure that using a fake name in an email header
>>>> would count as identity theft.
>>>
>>> You are right. I just checked with my solicitor and was told that that is
>>> not identity theft.
>>>
>>> But I'm so worried about my reputation and the circumstances under which my
>>> ex-wife left me for another man.
>>
>> It may not be identity theft, but it's serious damage to reputation,
>> and as such may be actionable. But possibly more importantly, it's
>> extremely damaging to YOUR reputation. Do you really want to be known
>> as "the guy who stole Jerry Stuckle's name, and did it so badly that
>> it was obvious"?
>
> Chris,
>
> It depends on your jurisdiction.  All my attorney can speak for is the
> United States - where it definitely is, the way the law is written.

Thanks for clarifying, real-Jerry. IANAL in any jurisdiction, but I do
know the jurisdiction of the internet, and how important one's
reputation is. And that reputation can cross communities fairly easy
(for instance, Rusi Mody posts here on debian-user, and I already know
him from python-list). So whichever way you look at it, it's foolish,
juvenile, and potentially extremely damaging to the one who does it.

It's just not worth it.

ChrisA


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Re: GPG Keys..... was Re: Should I install chkrootkit?

2014-06-10 Thread Jerry Stuckle
On 6/10/2014 6:57 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 8:53 PM, Jerry Stuckle  wrote:
>>> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 20:51:16 +1000
>>
>>> Subject: Re: GPG Keys..... was Re: Should I install chkrootkit?
>>> From: ros...@gmail.com
>>> CC: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>>> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>>>
>>> Do you really want to be known
>>> as "the guy who stole Jerry Stuckle's name, and did it so badly that
>>> it was obvious"?
>>>
>> But I AM Jerry Stuckle.
> 
> I wouldn't even bother responding, except that I want subsequent
> readers (including archive bingers) to have some indication of what's
> going on. Want to know which posts are by the real Jerry Stuckle and
> which aren't? Just flip through the headers and it's patently obvious.
> For one thing, I don't think the real JS would send to me as well as
> to the list.
> 
> ChrisA
> 
> 

I wouldn't do it on purpose, anyway :)

Jerry


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Re: GPG Keys..... was Re: Should I install chkrootkit?

2014-06-10 Thread Jerry Stuckle
On 6/10/2014 6:51 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 8:42 PM, Jerry Stuckle  wrote:
>>> Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 06:18:23 +1000
>>> Subject: Re: GPG Keys..... was Re: Should I install chkrootkit?
>>> From: ros...@gmail.com
>>> CC: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>>> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>>
>>>
>>> Hmm, I'm not absolutely sure that using a fake name in an email header
>>> would count as identity theft.
>>
>> You are right. I just checked with my solicitor and was told that that is
>> not identity theft.
>>
>> But I'm so worried about my reputation and the circumstances under which my
>> ex-wife left me for another man.
> 
> It may not be identity theft, but it's serious damage to reputation,
> and as such may be actionable. But possibly more importantly, it's
> extremely damaging to YOUR reputation. Do you really want to be known
> as "the guy who stole Jerry Stuckle's name, and did it so badly that
> it was obvious"?
> 
> ChrisA
> 
> 

Chris,

It depends on your jurisdiction.  All my attorney can speak for is the
United States - where it definitely is, the way the law is written.

Jerry


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Re: GPG Keys..... was Re: Should I install chkrootkit?

2014-06-10 Thread Chris Angelico
On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 8:53 PM, Jerry Stuckle  wrote:
>> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 20:51:16 +1000
>
>> Subject: Re: GPG Keys. was Re: Should I install chkrootkit?
>> From: ros...@gmail.com
>> CC: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>>
>> Do you really want to be known
>> as "the guy who stole Jerry Stuckle's name, and did it so badly that
>> it was obvious"?
>>
> But I AM Jerry Stuckle.

I wouldn't even bother responding, except that I want subsequent
readers (including archive bingers) to have some indication of what's
going on. Want to know which posts are by the real Jerry Stuckle and
which aren't? Just flip through the headers and it's patently obvious.
For one thing, I don't think the real JS would send to me as well as
to the list.

ChrisA


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Re: GPG Keys..... was Re: Should I install chkrootkit?

2014-06-10 Thread Chris Angelico
On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 8:42 PM, Jerry Stuckle  wrote:
>> Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 06:18:23 +1000
>> Subject: Re: GPG Keys..... was Re: Should I install chkrootkit?
>> From: ros...@gmail.com
>> CC: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>
>>
>> Hmm, I'm not absolutely sure that using a fake name in an email header
>> would count as identity theft.
>
> You are right. I just checked with my solicitor and was told that that is
> not identity theft.
>
> But I'm so worried about my reputation and the circumstances under which my
> ex-wife left me for another man.

It may not be identity theft, but it's serious damage to reputation,
and as such may be actionable. But possibly more importantly, it's
extremely damaging to YOUR reputation. Do you really want to be known
as "the guy who stole Jerry Stuckle's name, and did it so badly that
it was obvious"?

ChrisA


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Re: GPG Keys..... was Re: Should I install chkrootkit?

2014-06-08 Thread The Wanderer
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On 06/08/2014 06:20 PM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

> On Du, 08 iun 14, 23:37:40, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, 2014-06-09 at 00:22 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
>>> 
>>> Could you please elaborate on this?
>> 
>> What should I explain? That signing usually is unwanted? It's
>> usually unwanted, because there is absolutely no reason to sign
>> mails to a mailing list, especially when most messages are signed
>> with untrusted keys. I experience this on many mailing lists, not
>> at Debian user.
> 
> Mails signed by untrusted keys is a (real) problem that needs to be
> solved, hence my suggestion to join the Web of Trust.

Receiving a message signed by an untrusted key isn't useless, however.

It means that if you later receive another message signed by the same
(still untrusted) key, you can be sure the two messages were sent by the
same source. (Barring key compromise or the like.)

Few if any of you have any clue who I am, or any reason to trust me
beyond what you see me post here - but because I sign all my posts here
with the same key, you can be sure that each new message comes from the
same person who posted the earlier ones, whoever that may actually be.

In many cases - including, I think, the one which sparked this
discussion - that "yes, this is the same person who has been earlier
seen doing X" is IMO more important, for practical purposes, than being
able to verify some other aspect of the poster's identity.

>> Signing a mail to a mailing list IMO is similar to draw up a
>> contract, when you lend a friend 10,-€. There simply shouldn't be
>> the need to sign those messages, just because there is one
>> Super-Troll. AFAIK this never happened before and there's no reason
>> to assume it will happen often in the future. This Super-Troll is
>> an exception.
> 
> That's your opinion, but I disagree. I sign most e-mails (even in
> private conversations) also as a reminder to everyone that email is
> insecure by design. As far as I'm concerned signing and/or encrypting
> as needed should be the default, not vice-versa.

Agreed 100%. (Except for s/most/all/, barring things like "reply to this
automated mail to confirm your intent to subscribe to the mailing list"
messages.)

And while forged posting and suchlike may not have happened *here* in
the past, it's certainly happened elswhere; if I'm not mistaken, there
are some newsgroups where it's been almost a common thing to see at
times, though certainly not a common thing to do.

- --
   The Wanderer

Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny.

A government exists to serve its citizens, not to control them.
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Re: GPG Keys..... was Re: Should I install chkrootkit?

2014-06-08 Thread Andrei POPESCU
On Du, 08 iun 14, 23:37:40, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Mon, 2014-06-09 at 00:22 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > 
> > Could you please elaborate on this?
> 
> What should I explain? That signing usually is unwanted? It's usually
> unwanted, because there is absolutely no reason to sign mails to a
> mailing list, especially when most messages are signed with untrusted
> keys. I experience this on many mailing lists, not at Debian user.
 
Mails signed by untrusted keys is a (real) problem that needs to be 
solved, hence my suggestion to join the Web of Trust.

> Signing a mail to a mailing list IMO is similar to draw up a contract,
> when you lend a friend 10,-€. There simply shouldn't be the need to sign
> those messages, just because there is one Super-Troll. AFAIK this never
> happened before and there's no reason to assume it will happen often in
> the future. This Super-Troll is an exception.

That's your opinion, but I disagree. I sign most e-mails (even in 
private conversations) also as a reminder to everyone that email is 
insecure by design. As far as I'm concerned signing and/or encrypting as 
needed should be the default, not vice-versa.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: GPG Keys..... was Re: Should I install chkrootkit?

2014-06-08 Thread Ralf Mardorf
On Mon, 2014-06-09 at 00:22 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Du, 08 iun 14, 22:05:03, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > 
> > I will not sign my emails to mailing lists, however, you're mistaken,
> > several people subscribed to Debian user sign there mails. Those people
> > are not blacklisted, perhaps there are kangaroos or penguins in their
> > kitchen, I don't know, anyway, signing is allowed, usually it's just
> > unwanted for mails send to a mailing list.
> 
> Could you please elaborate on this?

What should I explain? That signing usually is unwanted? It's usually
unwanted, because there is absolutely no reason to sign mails to a
mailing list, especially when most messages are signed with untrusted
keys. I experience this on many mailing lists, not at Debian user.

Signing a mail to a mailing list IMO is similar to draw up a contract,
when you lend a friend 10,-€. There simply shouldn't be the need to sign
those messages, just because there is one Super-Troll. AFAIK this never
happened before and there's no reason to assume it will happen often in
the future. This Super-Troll is an exception.


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Re: GPG Keys..... was Re: Should I install chkrootkit?

2014-06-08 Thread Andrei POPESCU
On Du, 08 iun 14, 22:05:03, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> 
> I will not sign my emails to mailing lists, however, you're mistaken,
> several people subscribed to Debian user sign there mails. Those people
> are not blacklisted, perhaps there are kangaroos or penguins in their
> kitchen, I don't know, anyway, signing is allowed, usually it's just
> unwanted for mails send to a mailing list.

Could you please elaborate on this?

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: GPG Keys..... was Re: Should I install chkrootkit?

2014-06-08 Thread davidson

On Mon, 9 Jun 2014, Chris Angelico wrote:


...but I would consider it pretty silly if we had to concern
ourselves with the possibility that some other debian-user
contributor would show up on our doorsteps with an axe.


Hm.


We should not have to be considering such ridiculous possibilities.


Couldn't hurt to post the sign:

  "No Grindstone on Premises"

-wes


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Re: GPG Keys..... was Re: Should I install chkrootkit?

2014-06-08 Thread Jerry Stuckle
On 6/8/2014 4:18 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 6:10 AM, Jerry Stuckle  wrote:
>>> But hopefully it won't ever come to the point of mattering. It really
>>> is silly when people start trying to spoof other people's emails.
>>>
>>
>> Chris,
>>
>> It's more than silly.  In many countries (including the United States),
>> it can be considered identity theft, which is a federal crime.
> 
> Hmm, I'm not absolutely sure that using a fake name in an email header
> would count as identity theft. But what I meant was how silly it is to
> have to worry about that. Murder's a crime, too, but I would consider
> it pretty silly if we had to concern ourselves with the possibility
> that some other debian-user contributor would show up on our doorsteps
> with an axe. We should not have to be considering such ridiculous
> possibilities.
> 
> ChrisA
> 
> 

The way the law is written in the U.S., it is (and has been prosecuted
as such).  It is considered no different than using someone else's name
when applying for a loan, for instance.

Jerry


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Re: GPG Keys..... was Re: Should I install chkrootkit?

2014-06-08 Thread Chris Angelico
On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 6:10 AM, Jerry Stuckle  wrote:
>> But hopefully it won't ever come to the point of mattering. It really
>> is silly when people start trying to spoof other people's emails.
>>
>
> Chris,
>
> It's more than silly.  In many countries (including the United States),
> it can be considered identity theft, which is a federal crime.

Hmm, I'm not absolutely sure that using a fake name in an email header
would count as identity theft. But what I meant was how silly it is to
have to worry about that. Murder's a crime, too, but I would consider
it pretty silly if we had to concern ourselves with the possibility
that some other debian-user contributor would show up on our doorsteps
with an axe. We should not have to be considering such ridiculous
possibilities.

ChrisA


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Re: GPG Keys..... was Re: Should I install chkrootkit?

2014-06-08 Thread Jerry Stuckle
On 6/8/2014 1:20 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 2:22 AM, Andrei POPESCU  
> wrote:
>> On Lu, 09 iun 14, 02:07:46, Andrew McGlashan wrote:
>>> On 9/06/2014 1:56 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

 https://wiki.debian.org/Keysigning/Offers#AU
>>>
>>> Okay, not many people listed; I thought there would be many more.  I
>>> don't know any of them personally.
>>
>> That's not necessary, the point of that listing is that those people
>> have offered to meet others just for key signing.
> 
> I may have to do that some time. There are four offering in Melbourne.
> 
> But hopefully it won't ever come to the point of mattering. It really
> is silly when people start trying to spoof other people's emails.
> 
> ChrisA
> 
> 

Chris,

It's more than silly.  In many countries (including the United States),
it can be considered identity theft, which is a federal crime.

Jerry


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Re: GPG Keys..... was Re: Should I install chkrootkit?

2014-06-08 Thread Ralf Mardorf
On Sun, 2014-06-08 at 17:53 +0200, Bzzz wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Jun 2014 01:43:28 +1000
> Andrew McGlashan  wrote:
> 
> > > If one is living in the USA or western Europe getting one's key
> > > signed shouldn't be too difficult.
> > 
> > How about Australia?
> 
> Not allowed: if you sign your e-mails, they'll blacklist
> you, you'll suffer a kangaroo invasion in your kitchen,
> your kids' hamster will die from plague, they'll list 
> you as a potential terrorist and all your sites will 
> join the dentist one in the big-filter. You have been 
> warned.

I will not sign my emails to mailing lists, however, you're mistaken,
several people subscribed to Debian user sign there mails. Those people
are not blacklisted, perhaps there are kangaroos or penguins in their
kitchen, I don't know, anyway, signing is allowed, usually it's just
unwanted for mails send to a mailing list.



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Re: GPG Keys..... was Re: Should I install chkrootkit?

2014-06-08 Thread Chris Angelico
On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 2:22 AM, Andrei POPESCU  wrote:
> On Lu, 09 iun 14, 02:07:46, Andrew McGlashan wrote:
>> On 9/06/2014 1:56 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
>> >
>> > https://wiki.debian.org/Keysigning/Offers#AU
>>
>> Okay, not many people listed; I thought there would be many more.  I
>> don't know any of them personally.
>
> That's not necessary, the point of that listing is that those people
> have offered to meet others just for key signing.

I may have to do that some time. There are four offering in Melbourne.

But hopefully it won't ever come to the point of mattering. It really
is silly when people start trying to spoof other people's emails.

ChrisA


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Re: GPG Keys..... was Re: Should I install chkrootkit?

2014-06-08 Thread Slavko
Ahoj,

Dňa Sun, 8 Jun 2014 17:53:28 +0200 Bzzz  napísal:

> On Mon, 09 Jun 2014 01:43:28 +1000
> Andrew McGlashan  wrote:
> 
> > > If one is living in the USA or western Europe getting one's key
> > > signed shouldn't be too difficult.
> > 
> > How about Australia?
> 
> Not allowed: if you sign your e-mails, they'll blacklist
> you, you'll suffer a kangaroo invasion in your kitchen,
> your kids' hamster will die from plague, they'll list 
> you as a potential terrorist and all your sites will 
> join the dentist one in the big-filter. You have been 
> warned.

IMO bad yoke. No all are know about OpenPGP, especially about signing.

BTW, in our country AFAIK there is only one Debian man, which
can sign my key. And this one is from another end of my small country -
it is only cca 400 km, but my health doesn't allow me to travel into his
town.

regards

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http://slavino.sk


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Re: GPG Keys..... was Re: Should I install chkrootkit?

2014-06-08 Thread Brad Rogers
On Mon, 09 Jun 2014 02:07:46 +1000
Andrew McGlashan  wrote:

Hello Andrew,

>Okay, not many people listed; I thought there would be many more.  I
>don't know any of them personally.

You don't have to.  So long as there's one close enough to you for it to
be convenient to arrange a meeting those people are happy to oblige.

-- 
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 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"
Watching the people get lairy
I Predict A Riot - Kaiser Chiefs


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Re: GPG Keys..... was Re: Should I install chkrootkit?

2014-06-08 Thread Andrei POPESCU
On Lu, 09 iun 14, 02:07:46, Andrew McGlashan wrote:
> On 9/06/2014 1:56 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > 
> > https://wiki.debian.org/Keysigning/Offers#AU
> 
> Okay, not many people listed; I thought there would be many more.  I
> don't know any of them personally.

That's not necessary, the point of that listing is that those people 
have offered to meet others just for key signing.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: GPG Keys..... was Re: Should I install chkrootkit?

2014-06-08 Thread Andrew McGlashan
On 9/06/2014 1:56 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Lu, 09 iun 14, 01:43:28, Andrew McGlashan wrote:
>>
>> And the fingerprint?
> 
> $ gpg --fingerprint EF22341C
> pub   4096R/EF22341C 2013-07-28
>   Key fingerprint = E44E B88C E21B 858E 3639  7AA4 FFC7 8544 EF22 341C
> uid  Andrei Mircea POPESCU 
> sub   4096R/5D7DFF29 2013-07-28

Thanks.

>> I wrote:
>>> If one is living in the USA or western Europe getting one's key 
>>> signed shouldn't be too difficult.
>>
>> How about Australia?  I think I could find someone that I know fairly
>> easily though.
> 
> https://wiki.debian.org/Keysigning/Offers#AU

Okay, not many people listed; I thought there would be many more.  I
don't know any of them personally.

Thanks again
AndrewM



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Re: GPG Keys..... was Re: Should I install chkrootkit?

2014-06-08 Thread Andrei POPESCU
On Lu, 09 iun 14, 01:43:28, Andrew McGlashan wrote:
> 
> And the fingerprint?

$ gpg --fingerprint EF22341C
pub   4096R/EF22341C 2013-07-28
  Key fingerprint = E44E B88C E21B 858E 3639  7AA4 FFC7 8544 EF22 341C
uid  Andrei Mircea POPESCU 
sub   4096R/5D7DFF29 2013-07-28

> I wrote:
> > If one is living in the USA or western Europe getting one's key 
> > signed shouldn't be too difficult.
> 
> How about Australia?  I think I could find someone that I know fairly
> easily though.

https://wiki.debian.org/Keysigning/Offers#AU

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: GPG Keys..... was Re: Should I install chkrootkit?

2014-06-08 Thread Bzzz
On Mon, 09 Jun 2014 01:43:28 +1000
Andrew McGlashan  wrote:

> > If one is living in the USA or western Europe getting one's key
> > signed shouldn't be too difficult.
> 
> How about Australia?

Not allowed: if you sign your e-mails, they'll blacklist
you, you'll suffer a kangaroo invasion in your kitchen,
your kids' hamster will die from plague, they'll list 
you as a potential terrorist and all your sites will 
join the dentist one in the big-filter. You have been 
warned.

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GPG Keys..... was Re: Should I install chkrootkit?

2014-06-08 Thread Andrew McGlashan
On 9/06/2014 1:16 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> $ gpg --list-sigs EF22341C
> pub   4096R/EF22341C 2013-07-28
> uid  Andrei Mircea POPESCU 
> sig 3EF22341C 2013-07-28  Andrei Mircea POPESCU 
> 
> sig  DEA22DE9 2013-07-28  Andrei Popescu 
> sig 3EF22341C 2013-07-28  Andrei Mircea POPESCU 
> 
> sig  2BEF0A33 2013-08-23  Didier Raboud 
> sig 2151DFFDC 2013-08-24  Bernhard R. Link 
> sig  AC583520 2013-08-31  Holger Levsen 
> sig  069AAA1C 2013-08-31  Holger Levsen 
> sub   4096R/5D7DFF29 2013-07-28
> sig  EF22341C 2013-07-28  Andrei Mircea POPESCU 
> 

And the fingerprint?

> If one is living in the USA or western Europe getting one's key signed 
> shouldn't be too difficult.

How about Australia?  I think I could find someone that I know fairly
easily though.

> https://wiki.debian.org/Keysigning
> https://wiki.debian.org/Keysigning/Coordination
> https://wiki.debian.org/Keysigning/Offers
> 
> Nice side effect: you can verify the authenticity of Debian Installer 
> images, since those are signed by a Debian Member.
> 
> http://www.debian.org/CD/verify

It is my intention to digitally sign each message to Debian list using
my public GPG key, which has these details:

  pub   2048D/B7EFE2FB 2012-04-12
Key fingerprint =
   C902 8307 B42E 98C9 D2DF  8D43 A816 6BCB B7EF E2FB
  uid   Andrew McGlashan 
  uid   Andrew McGlashan 
  uid   [jpeg image of size 2732]
  sub   2048g/10921186 2012-04-12

Should I create a new key, then it will be signed by the above key.

If I fail to sign any genuine messages to this list going forward, then
it will be likely be accidental.  In the past I have usually only signed
emails to this list when they were replies to emails that were
themselves signed.



Kind Regards
AndrewM



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