Re: Good video card?
On Sun, May 27, 2007 at 12:12:47AM -0500, Jacob S wrote: I'm looking to purchase a new video card to replace a dying Radeon 9200. The 9200 was relatively easy to install - load the kernel module and set the correct driver in the xorg.conf file and it was good to go - - no compiling drivers or kernels. However, this is the second 9200 to die on me, so I'm looking for something different this time - but still easy to setup. I went with an Asus EN7300GT Silent. It uses the nVidia GeForce7300GT, has 256 MB ram, no fan (huge heatsink), and does most things in hardware if you use the nVidia driver. I've had it for about 6 months so I don't know about longevity. Setup is simple: get xorg working with the nv driver, save the xorg.conf, install the nvidia kernel metapackage so that it will always match the installed kernel, and run the setup program. The nVidia driver gives a clearer picture for me in the following situation: watching a DVD that is normally 1024x768 but instead at full screen 1600x1200, deinterlace blend, using the vlc viewer. The nVidia driver handles the jpeg conversion in hardware allowing the main CPU to just idle. For longevity, I'd have to look to my older computers: my PII uses Trident VideoExcell AGP. Never tried to watch a movie with it and I've never tried googleearth (whatever that is). My other old computer (486) still uses its builtin S3 that isn't supported by Xorg. But it still works as well as it ever did. Whatever modern card you use, watch the temperature of it. If it is fanless, ensure that you have adequate case fans. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Good video card?
On 27 May 2007, Russell L. Harris wrote: * Jacob S [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070527 00:14]: I'm looking to purchase a new video card to replace a dying Radeon 9200. The 9200 was relatively easy to install - load the kernel module and set the correct driver in the xorg.conf file and it was good to go - - no compiling drivers or kernels. However, this is the second 9200 to die on me, so I'm looking for something different this time - but still easy to setup. Any recommendations? I know of three or four Matrox G550 cards (uses the MGA driver) which have been in service for several years and perform flawlessly. The installer (and the X configuration routine) finds them, and no manual configuration is required. RLH I've had one of these for a couple of years and it's fine. However, it cannot run googleearth. One advantage is that it doesn't have a fan so doesn't create additional noise. Anthony -- Anthony Campbell - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microsoft-free zone - Using Linux Gnu-Debian http://www.acampbell.org.uk (blog, book reviews, on-line books and sceptical articles) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Good video card?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/27/07 00:58, David Fox wrote: [snip] Fortunately, a friend gave me an Nvidia Gforce FX5200, has 128 megs of RAM. This one is decidedly better for the 3D applications (beryl *almost* works). Although it's not state of the art (I was reviewing some of the writeups on current, bleeding edge graphics cards, and basically I was just floored -- those things are practically supercomputers...). Still, a 5200 or something similar might run you close to $50. Make that $29 at NewEgg. (You don't mention whether this is AGP 2X, 4X or 8X. This *is* AGP, right?) I also vote nvidia. All prices at NewEgg: GeForce FX5500 128MB DDR AGP 4X/8X card $48 Geforce FX5500 256MB DDR AGP 4X/8X card $51 For future use, though, I'd buy an OpenGL 2.0 card: PNY VCG62256APB GeForce 6200 256MB GDDR2 AGP 4X/8X $60 - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGWWkwS9HxQb37XmcRArJcAKCqco2npqLYr48Ct8AHYThAW9JOHACfSl2v 0Fwurvz51VlR69+Zf5Px62o= =ymFD -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Good video card?
Ron Johnson wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/27/07 00:58, David Fox wrote: [snip] Fortunately, a friend gave me an Nvidia Gforce FX5200, has 128 megs of RAM. This one is decidedly better for the 3D applications (beryl *almost* works). Although it's not state of the art (I was reviewing some of the writeups on current, bleeding edge graphics cards, and basically I was just floored -- those things are practically supercomputers...). Still, a 5200 or something similar might run you close to $50. Make that $29 at NewEgg. (You don't mention whether this is AGP 2X, 4X or 8X. This *is* AGP, right?) I also vote nvidia. All prices at NewEgg: GeForce FX5500 128MB DDR AGP 4X/8X card $48 Geforce FX5500 256MB DDR AGP 4X/8X card $51 For future use, though, I'd buy an OpenGL 2.0 card: PNY VCG62256APB GeForce 6200 256MB GDDR2 AGP 4X/8X $60 I run a Sid two-seater and with that sort of setup I also vote for nvidia. And the nvidia drivers (post 87xx) are superb, closed source all that is true. Hugo -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Good video card?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, 27 May 2007 06:19:12 -0500 Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/27/07 00:58, David Fox wrote: [snip] Fortunately, a friend gave me an Nvidia Gforce FX5200, has 128 megs of RAM. This one is decidedly better for the 3D applications (beryl *almost* works). Although it's not state of the art (I was reviewing some of the writeups on current, bleeding edge graphics cards, and basically I was just floored -- those things are practically supercomputers...). Still, a 5200 or something similar might run you close to $50. Make that $29 at NewEgg. (You don't mention whether this is AGP 2X, 4X or 8X. This *is* AGP, right?) Yes, this is AGP 4x/8x. And while it doesn't need much in the 3d department, enough to run googleearth would be nice. I also vote nvidia. All prices at NewEgg: GeForce FX5500 128MB DDR AGP 4X/8X card $48 Geforce FX5500 256MB DDR AGP 4X/8X card $51 For future use, though, I'd buy an OpenGL 2.0 card: PNY VCG62256APB GeForce 6200 256MB GDDR2 AGP 4X/8X $60 Thanks for all the suggestions. Jacob -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGWee6kpJ43hY3cTURAmMKAKDQRwgJfRCPGPCwJR1w85FI8a1zgwCcCiS0 7xaiBHt2ssJpJ+XrlslWzwg= =ETIy -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Good video card?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Howdy List, I'm looking to purchase a new video card to replace a dying Radeon 9200. The 9200 was relatively easy to install - load the kernel module and set the correct driver in the xorg.conf file and it was good to go - - no compiling drivers or kernels. However, this is the second 9200 to die on me, so I'm looking for something different this time - but still easy to setup. Any recommendations? TIA HAND, Jacob -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGWRNSkpJ43hY3cTURAt/5AJ9dmf/vQkLVO4lTyn9Zz5BiRhRYTQCg6Axo gjsE6+eDJsmTWCHK2wrkyK8= =pbaU -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Good video card?
* Jacob S [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070527 00:14]: I'm looking to purchase a new video card to replace a dying Radeon 9200. The 9200 was relatively easy to install - load the kernel module and set the correct driver in the xorg.conf file and it was good to go - - no compiling drivers or kernels. However, this is the second 9200 to die on me, so I'm looking for something different this time - but still easy to setup. Any recommendations? I know of three or four Matrox G550 cards (uses the MGA driver) which have been in service for several years and perform flawlessly. The installer (and the X configuration routine) finds them, and no manual configuration is required. RLH -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Good video card?
On 5/26/07, Russell L. Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know of three or four Matrox G550 cards (uses the MGA driver) which have been in service for several years and perform flawlessly. The Ditto. I had a Matrox G450 for over six years - gave it to a friend. It's a fine card for (mostly) 2D stuff, very capable, but lacks a little bit in the 3d department, although some 3d stuff works. But for newer 3d experiences, you're better off with a more recent card as the memory requirements have dramatically increased for that sort of thing (beryl, for instance), and the Matrox simply doesn't have adequate RAM for that. Incidentally, the Matrox cost me about $65 back in March of 2001 when I put my current system together. My prior card was an ATI Graphics Expression, which at the time I purchased it (1995?) went for over $300. (!) Fortunately, a friend gave me an Nvidia Gforce FX5200, has 128 megs of RAM. This one is decidedly better for the 3D applications (beryl *almost* works). Although it's not state of the art (I was reviewing some of the writeups on current, bleeding edge graphics cards, and basically I was just floored -- those things are practically supercomputers...). Still, a 5200 or something similar might run you close to $50. installer (and the X configuration routine) finds them, and no manual configuration is required. RLH -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What's a good video card?
Mark Mealman [EMAIL PROTECTED] (no_spam) writes: | Is SVGAlib going to be updated any time soon? I know it's a major hack with Well, I guess some ppl hack it still somewhat (for example, I know a certain fellow who recently added support for a new graphics card), but I don't think there will be any actual development. It's dead. If you think it's not, shoot it. | security holes the size of Texas, but Linux + SVGA = a hell of a gaming | machine. Linux + (X11 + Mesa/some-commercial-OpenGL) or GGI = a hell of a gaming machine. | Is SVGAlib dead? Is there ever going to be a replacement for it? I guess you can consider (lib)GGI as its replacement for all practical purposes. I'm not exactly a fan of GGI project, but that's completely another subject. //Hannu -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: What's a good video card?
On Tue, 7 Jul 1998, Shaleh wrote: ATI does NOT support Linux or Xfree in ANY way. All users should boycott them in general. Besides, the cards are CHEAP not inexpensive. There is a difference. Spend the 20 extra bucks for a Matrox. Or someone else's card. The ATi all-in-one wonder card can not be used in Linux because they refuse to release any specs. That is from Alan Cox, not me. Thanks for info. I prefer to use hardware which is (1) supported by Linux and (2) whose manufacturer cooperates with Linux Developers. However, in considering a new video card I checked with with docs the most recent XF86 FAQ at http://x.physics.usyd.edu.au/FAQ which said that Mach64 RageII and other newer chips were suppored. They did indicate problems with the Mach64 server with these chips, which I assume would be worked out because the chips are new. (1) Have ATI changed their policy regarding cooperation with Linux? Or have they always been noncooperativer? (2) Can anyone recommend another inexpensive PCI board ( $100 US) with 8MB of memory that is well supported by Linux. I want a PCI card with 8MB video ram for larger virtual screen. I don't care about 3D as I don't play games. I am now leaning to toward the Matrox Mystique even though PCI Matrox Mystique comes with 4 MB and the 4MB memory upgrade brings price slightly above my $100 limit and I would rather not have to stuff chips. Thanks. King Lee - -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: What's a good video card?
On Tue, 7 Jul 1998, Shaleh wrote: Well on Alan Cox's web page for TV in Linux he has a pretty GIF that has the red circle w/ the slash on an ATi logo and specifically states that until ATi gives out specs their all-in-wonder card will not do anything Sorry to bother you, but could you give URL. I do want to support vendors that support Linux, but I'm confused. snip King -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: What's a good video card?
On Wed, Jul 08, 1998 at 11:53:55AM -0500, Mark Mealman wrote: Is SVGAlib dead? Is there ever going to be a replacement for it? Maybe GGI will do it. Still in early development. GGI is short for General Graphics Interface and aims at kernel space ;) Marcus -- Rhubarb is no Egyptian god.Debian GNU/Linuxfinger brinkmd@ Marcus Brinkmann http://www.debian.orgmaster.debian.org [EMAIL PROTECTED]for public PGP Key http://homepage.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/Marcus.Brinkmann/ PGP Key ID 36E7CD09 -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: What's a good video card?
You might take a look at this before saying that. http://www.xfree86.org/sponsors.html Lawrence Walton Otak Network Manager 425.739.4247 On Tue, 7 Jul 1998, Shaleh wrote: ATI does NOT support Linux or Xfree in ANY way. All users should boycott them in general. Besides, the cards are CHEAP not inexpensive. There is a difference. Spend the 20 extra bucks for a Matrox. Or someone else's card. The ATi all-in-one wonder card can not be used in Linux because they refuse to release any specs. That is from Alan Cox, not me. -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: What's a good video card?
Well on Alan Cox's web page for TV in Linux he has a pretty GIF that has the red circle w/ the slash on an ATi logo and specifically states that until ATi gives out specs their all-in-wonder card will not do anything more than X. SO I refuse to support ATi. And would ask all others to do the same. A capitalist society is the purest form of democracy. You vote with your money. I refuse to gve ATi any of mine. -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: What's a good video card?
Shaleh wrote (Tue, 07 Jul 1998 21:59:32 -0400 ): |Well on Alan Cox's web page for TV in Linux he has a pretty GIF that has |the red circle w/ the slash on an ATi logo and specifically states that |until ATi gives out specs their all-in-wonder card will not do anything |more than X. SO I refuse to support ATi. And would ask all others to |do the same. A capitalist society is the purest form of democracy. You |vote with your money. I refuse to gve ATi any of mine. | This is all well and good, but the fact remains that your original statement (ATI does NOT support Linux or Xfree in ANY way) was wrong. This isn't really a black and white issue, and while ATI may not be the most open-computing-friendly company, I really think there are many more worthy targets for such boycotts. As far as the original question goes, I'm running XFree86 on my [EMAIL PROTECTED] and it works great. If you're still wary about installing hamm and opt for bo instead, you may want to upgrade to a later version of the XFree86 Mach64 server (at least I did when I installed it...the version being 3.3.2 I think). -alan -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: What's a good video card?
*-Shaleh ( 7 Jul) | | price range. As a general comment I say avoid Diamond. For a long time | they have not supported any form of driver for their cards (even their | Windows support is not all that great). From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Didn't this occur around 3 or 4 years ago? Yes, but . . . To this day we still don't have working Win95 drivers for their Speedstar Pro VL product. Our company received several of these in new computers. If they're going to abandon their own products, my company will not be purchasing any more of them. Story goes they got into a finger-pointing contest with Microsoft and Cirrus Logic over who should write the drivers. - Marsh -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: What's a good video card?
Adam Klein hat gesagt: // Adam Klein wrote: I'm about to buy a new computer, and I'd like a recommendation for a mid-range ($100-$150) video card that works well with XFree86. Thanks, Adam Klein I do like cards with the NVidia RIVA 128 chip like Diamond Viper, STB Velocity or Elsa Erazor. (Yes, Elsa is supporting the XFree project) Vipers are really inexpensive and VERY fast under X. And they make QuakeII look great under Win95 if that is important to you ... By the way: Is there any SVGATextmode and SVGAlib support for Riva chips? -- Frank Barknecht - -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
RE: What's a good video card?
I am running a mystique 2 4mb, is damn fast, with both windows and Xfree86, it is a good fast 2d card. BUT It does not support a lot of the lower VESA2 resououtions (eg 400x300), this will not cause any problems with linux, but in dos\windows stuff it can be a real sh*t. - especially with games and PC-Demos (not game demos) - and scitech dd only just helps to recitfy this problem some of the time - ie hardly ever. some programs have difficulty accesing the liner farme buffer, and hence hang the machine. (again not linux specific) its direct X, 3D accel. is naf, again not a problem with linux. despite ati's refusal to release info, i believ the rage pro series do run Xfree, the windows drivers are ok - the new drivers will be very welcome tho. direct X 3D accel is very damn good, and full vesa 2 support. Rick EMAIL - [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] HOME - http://welcome.to/kitty5 - http://ds.dial.pipex.com/kitty5/ [Emulation, Raytracing, Linux, Games, PC Music] -Original Message- From: Adam Klein [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 07 July 1998 19:10 To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: What's a good video card? I'm about to buy a new computer, and I'd like a recommendation for a mid-range ($100-$150) video card that works well with XFree86. Thanks, Adam Klein -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
RE: What's a good video card?
A brilliant card for Xfree and a real steal at the moment is the Xpert series from ATI: The XFree support is fab - all res, acceleration features, most color depths (apart from 24 bit, that is) are supported with 230MHz RAMDAC. Only drawback: No SVGAlib support (hardly any of the new chips have...) It's a very good card for DOS/Win9X gaming as well and features DVD support (not in LinUX...). Win9X drivers are stable and performant, MPEG decoding looks extremely well. Makes it a brilliant allround card - lightning fast 2D, pretty decent 3D performance with high quality ! Have a look at http://www.angelfire.com/ca/rchau/ and http://www.xfree86.org for more infos... Personally I am running the [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 8MB SGRAM, there is also the cheaper little brother, Xpert98, same RagePro chip but EDORAM I think (and no TV-out, which is a bit pointless with LinUX anyway, as it's certainly not the premier gaming platform, yet)... Regards, /(__ __|\ Lars Steinke, Research Student @ (\/ __)_www.fmf.uni-freiburg.de, Germany ) (_ / for PGP PKey and WWW-Page finger /___/[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
RE: What's a good video card?
On Wed, 08 Jul 1998, Lars Steinke wrote: A brilliant card for Xfree and a real steal at the moment is the Xpert series from ATI: The XFree support is fab - all res, acceleration features, most color depths (apart from 24 bit, that is) are supported with 230MHz RAMDAC. Only drawback: No SVGAlib support (hardly any of the new chips have...) Is SVGAlib going to be updated any time soon? I know it's a major hack with security holes the size of Texas, but Linux + SVGA = a hell of a gaming machine. X-Quake just doesn't look work quite right for me. I'd love to play it from the console, but I have a Millineum II chip which won't go above 320x200 under svgalib. Is SVGAlib dead? Is there ever going to be a replacement for it? Mark -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
What's a good video card?
I'm about to buy a new computer, and I'd like a recommendation for a mid-range ($100-$150) video card that works well with XFree86. Thanks, Adam Klein -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: What's a good video card?
I'd recommend Matrox's card, because it is one of the few which currently works well with ggi (which is still an alpha project, but *very* cool), in addition to X. -Original Message- From: Adam Klein [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org debian-user@lists.debian.org Date: Tuesday, July 07, 1998 12:09 PM Subject: What's a good video card? I'm about to buy a new computer, and I'd like a recommendation for a mid-range ($100-$150) video card that works well with XFree86. Thanks, Adam Klein -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: What's a good video card?
Should I buy a Chevy or a Ford? (-: (Sorry for the non-US who will not get that joke) Seriously, I have a Matrox Mystique 4mb card. I run Xfree in 1152x864 @ 16 and 24bpp w/ no hassles. Smooth and fast. I would recommend a Millenium for serious stuff -- but that is out of your price range. As a general comment I say avoid Diamond. For a long time they have not supported any form of driver for their cards (even their Windows support is not all that great). -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: What's a good video card?
On Tue, Jul 07, 1998 at 12:17:00PM -0700, Geoff Brimhall wrote: I'd recommend Matrox's card, because it is one of the few which currently works well with ggi (which is still an alpha project, but *very* cool), in addition to X. Which Matrox card? -Original Message- From: Adam Klein [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org debian-user@lists.debian.org Date: Tuesday, July 07, 1998 12:09 PM Subject: What's a good video card? I'm about to buy a new computer, and I'd like a recommendation for a mid-range ($100-$150) video card that works well with XFree86. Thanks, Adam Klein -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: What's a good video card?
Which Matrox? Either a Mystique (4mb) or a Millenium (8 or 12mb). The millenium is out of the price range you asked for (200-240 US). -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: What's a good video card?
On Tue, 7 Jul 1998, Shaleh wrote: Should I buy a Chevy or a Ford? (-: (Sorry for the non-US who will not get that joke) Seriously, I have a Matrox Mystique 4mb card. I run Xfree in 1152x864 @ 16 and 24bpp w/ no hassles. Smooth and fast. I would recommend a Millenium for serious stuff -- but that is out of your price range. As a general comment I say avoid Diamond. For a long time they have not supported any form of driver for their cards (even their Windows support is not all that great). I was considering a ATI @expert because the 8MB version is $100. Does anyone have any experience running this card with Linux. Thanks King Lee -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: What's a good video card?
ATI does NOT support Linux or Xfree in ANY way. All users should boycott them in general. Besides, the cards are CHEAP not inexpensive. There is a difference. Spend the 20 extra bucks for a Matrox. Or someone else's card. The ATi all-in-one wonder card can not be used in Linux because they refuse to release any specs. That is from Alan Cox, not me. -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: What's a good video card?
*-Shaleh ( 7 Jul) | | price range. As a general comment I say avoid Diamond. For a long time | they have not supported any form of driver for their cards (even their | Windows support is not all that great). | Well according to /usr/doc/X11/doc/README:(for X 3.3.2.2) .Most other Diamond boards will work with this release of XFree86. Diamond is actively supporting The XFree86 Project, Inc. Didn't this occur around 3 or 4 years ago? Brian -- Mechanical Engineering [EMAIL PROTECTED] Purdue University http://www.ecn.purdue.edu/~servis -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
