RE: Hiding a Linux computer
On Thu, Oct 15, 1998 at 12:01:59PM +0200, Rainer Clasen wrote: [snip] = try putting a send host-name statement in your dhclient.conf (see man 5 = dhclient.conf for details) = = I'd like to not even use the dhcp server but I think that would mean I'd = have to setup the Linux machine to be a DNS server wouldn't it? = = No! Not using dhcp means guessing a free IP - or better getting a real staic = one. = = I don't = know what that would do to the rest of the machines on our network, I = can't be messing them up or else I'll be in hot water. = = You can mess at least one box on your net - if you use the same IP as it. = = =Well if your network works like oursno problem :) = =Someone takes an IP no problem =DHCP server gives out that IP...and the unsuspecting user gets an IP =adress conflict. = =They call the helpdesk...helpdesk calls net eng... that adress is =taken out of the DHCP pool and put on the exclude list. = =-Steve ...Or it works like the helpdesk I work on: Someone grabs an IP address, DHCP gives out that address, user gets an IP conflict. User calls us, we call net eng, who bounces the static address and leases it to the DHCP user. Static user calls us, we ask them why they're screwing up the network. They complain, we offer to remove the computer from their desk and give it to someone who has a little less free time on their hands :-)... (Being on the Win95/MSOffice support team can really give you a crappy outlook on life...) Tom (Another person in a shop that keeps saying, We can't use Linux - there's no company to hold responsible if there's problems.) -- /* -- Stephen Carpenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] */ E-mail Bumper Stickers: A FREE America or a Drug-Free America: You can't have both! honk if you Love Linux
Re: Hiding a Linux computer
Quoting Hogland, Thomas E. ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): =Someone takes an IP no problem =DHCP server gives out that IP...and the unsuspecting user gets an IP =adress conflict. = =They call the helpdesk...helpdesk calls net eng... that adress is =taken out of the DHCP pool and put on the exclude list. = =-Steve ...Or it works like the helpdesk I work on: Someone grabs an IP address, DHCP gives out that address, user gets an IP conflict. User calls us, we call net eng, who bounces the static address and leases it to the DHCP user. Static user calls us, we ask them why they're screwing up the network. They complain, we offer to remove the computer from their desk and give it to someone who has a little less free time on their hands :-)... Or you could use the debian dhcp daemon, so if someone grabs an ip, the dhcp server marks it as unavailable and doesn't hand it out. Makes sense to me... Mike Stone
Re: Hiding a Linux computer
Hogland, Thomas E. wrote: [snip] (Being on the Win95/MSOffice support team can really give you a crappy outlook on life...) Tom (Another person in a shop that keeps saying, We can't use Linux - there's no company to hold responsible if there's problems.) Like Microsoft would be held responsible? There aren't enough lawyers to go after M$. Sorry for the off-topic comment -- Greg Frye, APS California Environmental Protection Agency Air Resources Board Monitoring and Laboratory Division 1927 13th Street P. O. Box 2815 Sacramento, CA 95812-2815 voice: 916-324-8892 fax: 916-327-8217
Re: Hiding a Linux computer
On Thu, Oct 15, 1998 at 01:35:49PM -0800, Hogland, Thomas E. wrote: On Thu, Oct 15, 1998 at 12:01:59PM +0200, Rainer Clasen wrote: [snip] = try putting a send host-name statement in your dhclient.conf (see man 5 = dhclient.conf for details) = = I'd like to not even use the dhcp server but I think that would mean I'd = have to setup the Linux machine to be a DNS server wouldn't it? = = No! Not using dhcp means guessing a free IP - or better getting a real staic = one. = = I don't = know what that would do to the rest of the machines on our network, I = can't be messing them up or else I'll be in hot water. = = You can mess at least one box on your net - if you use the same IP as it. = = =Well if your network works like oursno problem :) = =Someone takes an IP no problem =DHCP server gives out that IP...and the unsuspecting user gets an IP =adress conflict. = =They call the helpdesk...helpdesk calls net eng... that adress is =taken out of the DHCP pool and put on the exclude list. = =-Steve ...Or it works like the helpdesk I work on: Someone grabs an IP address, DHCP gives out that address, user gets an IP conflict. User calls us, we call net eng, who bounces the static address and leases it to the DHCP user. Static user calls us, we ask them why they're screwing up the network. They complain, we offer to remove the computer from their desk and give it to someone who has a little less free time on their hands :-)... Well... I work at a hospital... ther eis no telling what the person using the IP was doing (plus...its always possible they don't even know what an IP is and it may not even be their fault). Someone migh thave to answer for something if Net Eng compromised patient care just to smite a user and teach someone a lesson. besides... half the machines are Macs using dynamic adressing in MacTCP (which is NOT dhcp)...so they get an error...then it steals a new IP...90% of the time they wont even call the Help Desk SOon everyone will be on Catalyst 5000 Switches... then we can really track them down :) (Being on the Win95/MSOffice support team can really give you a crappy outlook on life...) esp when Outlook sucks as much as it does! (I had a user specifically ask me to have their new Outlook acount removed and to put them back on Helix (unix) e-mail) In any case..thats why I (the only Macintosh Tech Supporter in our team) am hopeing to get out of this line of work and into one where I can use Unix systems all day long. (Another person in a shop that keeps saying, We can't use Linux - there's no company to hold responsible if there's problems.) Bah...Chances are its your own fault anyway... besides...just blame it all on Network VooDoo and those Gremlins in the closet! -Steve who is amazed that anyone thinks the ability to get support for an OS is more important than having the OS actually work -- /* -- Stephen Carpenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] */ E-mail Bumper Stickers: A FREE America or a Drug-Free America: You can't have both! honk if you Love Linux pgpKcFfcv10N6.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Hiding a linux computer
On Thu, Oct 15, 1998 at 12:01:59PM +0200, Rainer Clasen wrote: No! Not using dhcp means guessing a free IP - or better getting a real staic one. There are other reasons for using dhcp. I have a notebook and it's very handy for getting a relevant IP wherever I happen to be. At home I have a static IP registered in the DNS, but I get a dynamic one at the other places I use it. Hamish -- Hamish Moffatt VK3TYD [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Debian packages at ftp://ftp.rising.com.au/pub/hamish. PGP#EFA6B9D5 CCs of replies from mailing lists are welcome. http://hamish.home.ml.org pgpe1sEInL2On.pgp Description: PGP signature
RE: Hiding a Linux computer
Quoting Michael Stone[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] = ...Or it works like the helpdesk I work on: Someone grabs an IP address, = DHCP gives out that address, user gets an IP conflict. User calls us, we = call net eng, who bounces the static address and leases it to the DHCP user. = Static user calls us, we ask them why they're screwing up the network. They = complain, we offer to remove the computer from their desk and give it to = someone who has a little less free time on their hands :-)... = =Or you could use the debian dhcp daemon, so if someone grabs an ip, =the dhcp server marks it as unavailable and doesn't hand it out. Makes =sense to me... = =Mike Stone Yeah, makes perfect sense. Why isn't it being done? Because the Microsoft/Novell DHCP servers don't do it (or don't do it easily - haven't dug into them very deeply), so it obviously can't be done... -- = Quoting Greg Frye[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] =[snip] = (Being on the Win95/MSOffice support team can really give you a crappy = outlook on life...) = = Tom = (Another person in a shop that keeps saying, We can't use Linux - there's = no company to hold responsible if there's problems.) = =Like Microsoft would be held responsible? There aren't enough lawyers =to go after M$. Exactly - and the response to THAT is, Well... you can still get support from them (forgetting you have to PAY them for it!). When Oracle announced they were going to release a dist. with their product (so you can buy a canned product), they said that it couldn't be as good as the NT version... They're even talking about dumping the RS6000/AIX box here and replacing it with NT, since NT runs so much better and more stable... Anyone know of a non-Dilbert company hiring? :-)
RE: Hiding a Linux computer
= ...Or it works like the helpdesk I work on: Someone grabs an IP address, = DHCP gives out that address, user gets an IP conflict. User calls us, we = call net eng, who bounces the static address and leases it to the DHCP user. = Static user calls us, we ask them why they're screwing up the network. They = complain, we offer to remove the computer from their desk and give it to = someone who has a little less free time on their hands :-)... = =Well... =I work at a hospital... ther eis no telling what the person using the IP =was doing (plus...its always possible they don't even know what an IP is =and it may not even be their fault). = =Someone migh thave to answer for something if Net Eng compromised =patient care just to smite a user and teach someone a lesson. ...And there's the difference - there's no lives on the line in this area. =besides... half the machines are Macs using dynamic adressing in =MacTCP (which is NOT dhcp)...so they get an error...then it steals a new =IP...90% of the time they wont even call the Help Desk Only nice thing here - we dropped all support for everything but Win95 or WinNT network clients (dropping the DOS, Win31, Mac, etc. really cuts down on the calls!) = (Being on the Win95/MSOffice support team can really give you a crappy = outlook on life...) = =esp when Outlook sucks as much as it does! (I had a user specifically =ask me to have their new Outlook acount removed and to put them back =on Helix (unix) e-mail) We've forced people to use the Exchange client. Had to force a few people to dump Outlook - in one case it was a person who liked to use the cool Outlook style sheets, which screws with EVERYONE else. Fixed that by formatting his hard drive and installing a set of standard apps in it's place, then telling him that we wouldn't take his calls if he put that stuff back on... Cold, but he likes to load lots of beta apps then complain to us that we're having network problems... =In any case..thats why I (the only Macintosh Tech Supporter in our =team) am hopeing to get out of this line of work and into one where I =can use Unix systems all day long. I'm shooting for something like that also - the company here will actually reimburse me for any training materials, and considered Debian, 2 books, etc. to be a viable training item for learning Unix. (Especially when they realized what a copy of Solaris or whatever costs... This was pre-free-Solaris days.) So, I load and reload Debian, fiddle with init files, study the books and CBT's, and hope :-). = (Another person in a shop that keeps saying, We can't use Linux - there's = no company to hold responsible if there's problems.) = =Bah...Chances are its your own fault anyway... =besides...just blame it all on Network VooDoo =and those Gremlins in the closet! Actually it's from a couple managers who are pro-M$ and are actually fairly technically competent (a dangerous mix!). A couple of us are already preparing our own little NT server for training ourselves (can you say Samba g..). =-Steve =who is amazed that anyone thinks the ability to get support for an OS is =more important than having the OS actually work ...And we've discussed THAT one here, also. That, and the corollary: Tom (who is amazed that anyone thinks the quality of an OS is tied to it's price...)
Hiding a linux computer
I have an interesting question for some of you. Where I work they are very pro-WinNT. That's fine for them (although they could get the same file printer sharing for 1/8 of the cost from Linux). Because of that they are very paranoid about Linux machines running on their network. What I would like to do is be able to setup a Linux machine and just telnet into it and maybe use pop-3, nothing fancy. I just want to be able to keep learning about Linux while I'm stuck here in Microsoft land. However a few problems arise. They are using dhcp, which I can work with (I get the ip address and can hit all the servers, etc.), but this also leaves a record in the dhcp ip address listing in this format: ipaddress hostname mac address The Linux machine shows up like this: X.X.X.X (null) XX:XX:XX:XX:XX While NT machines show up with an actual hostname not null. This I believe is one of the few things that would allow them to suspect that ip-address (besides maybe doing a tcpdump and checking for telnet connections?). I can block eveyone's computer but my own with a few simple additions to the hosts.* files. And even redirect them to another web page, when their hostname is not one of those allowed (I would have loved to see an administrators face when he kept getting their local intranet web page rather than the homepage on the Linux machine!). Simple stuff, but somehow I'd like to be able to really hide the machine. So that's the situation, anyone have any ideas? I'd like to not even use the dhcp server but I think that would mean I'd have to setup the Linux machine to be a DNS server wouldn't it? I don't know what that would do to the rest of the machines on our network, I can't be messing them up or else I'll be in hot water. Thanks for your help and let me know if you need clarifications. Sorry about the stupid Hotmail tag (I don't have a permanent home yet) __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: Hiding a linux computer
On Wed, Oct 14, 1998 at 05:41:44PM -0700, Jeremy Blonde wrote: However a few problems arise. They are using dhcp, which I can work with (I get the ip address and can hit all the servers, etc.), but this also leaves a record in the dhcp ip address listing in this format: ipaddress hostname mac address The Linux machine shows up like this: X.X.X.X (null) XX:XX:XX:XX:XX Try running dhcpcd with the -h hostname option (man dhcpcd for more details) I'd like to not even use the dhcp server but I think that would mean I'd have to setup the Linux machine to be a DNS server wouldn't it? I don't know what that would do to the rest of the machines on our network, I can't be messing them up or else I'll be in hot water. You'd have to have a static IP/dns entry...just try to get DHCP to work, it's the best way :) Also try putting the following line in /etc/dhcp/config HOSTNAME=foobar # your hostname here Worked for a friend of mine here at school... Brian
RE: Hiding a linux computer
to go along with other comments you received... In the environment here, I have to kill dhcpcd when bringing the system down to keep it from releasing the ip-addr. Otherwise you *will* get a different ip on every boot. So, I just edited the dhcpc file in /etc/init.d and put killall -9 dhcpcd wherever it is supposed to be stopped. This will give you a relatively static ip address. I also run samba and make the system appear in browse lists. The idea is not to hide, but to look like everyone else. jim -- From: Jeremy Blonde[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 1998 8:41 PM To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Cc: The recipient's address is unknown. Subject:Hiding a linux computer I have an interesting question for some of you. Where I work they are very pro-WinNT. That's fine for them (although they could get the same file printer sharing for 1/8 of the cost from Linux). Because of that they are very paranoid about Linux machines running on their network. What I would like to do is be able to setup a Linux machine and just telnet into it and maybe use pop-3, nothing fancy. I just want to be able to keep learning about Linux while I'm stuck here in Microsoft land. However a few problems arise. They are using dhcp, which I can work with (I get the ip address and can hit all the servers, etc.), but this also leaves a record in the dhcp ip address listing in this format: ipaddress hostname mac address The Linux machine shows up like this: X.X.X.X (null) XX:XX:XX:XX:XX While NT machines show up with an actual hostname not null. This I believe is one of the few things that would allow them to suspect that ip-address (besides maybe doing a tcpdump and checking for telnet connections?). I can block eveyone's computer but my own with a few simple additions to the hosts.* files. And even redirect them to another web page, when their hostname is not one of those allowed (I would have loved to see an administrators face when he kept getting their local intranet web page rather than the homepage on the Linux machine!). Simple stuff, but somehow I'd like to be able to really hide the machine. So that's the situation, anyone have any ideas? I'd like to not even use the dhcp server but I think that would mean I'd have to setup the Linux machine to be a DNS server wouldn't it? I don't know what that would do to the rest of the machines on our network, I can't be messing them up or else I'll be in hot water. Thanks for your help and let me know if you need clarifications. Sorry about the stupid Hotmail tag (I don't have a permanent home yet) __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Hiding a linux computer
Hi! Jeremy Blonde ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): However a few problems arise. They are using dhcp, which I can work with (I get the ip address and can hit all the servers, etc.), but this also leaves a record in the dhcp ip address listing in this format: ipaddress hostname mac address The Linux machine shows up like this: X.X.X.X (null) XX:XX:XX:XX:XX While NT machines show up with an actual hostname not null. try putting a send host-name statement in your dhclient.conf (see man 5 dhclient.conf for details) I'd like to not even use the dhcp server but I think that would mean I'd have to setup the Linux machine to be a DNS server wouldn't it? No! Not using dhcp means guessing a free IP - or better getting a real staic one. I don't know what that would do to the rest of the machines on our network, I can't be messing them up or else I'll be in hot water. You can mess at least one box on your net - if you use the same IP as it. Rainer -- KeyID=58341901 fingerprint=A5 57 04 B3 69 88 A1 FB 78 1D B5 64 E0 BF 72 EB pgprr6744PUsN.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Hiding a linux computer
On Thu, Oct 15, 1998 at 12:01:59PM +0200, Rainer Clasen wrote: Hi! Jeremy Blonde ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): However a few problems arise. They are using dhcp, which I can work with (I get the ip address and can hit all the servers, etc.), but this also leaves a record in the dhcp ip address listing in this format: ipaddress hostname mac address The Linux machine shows up like this: X.X.X.X (null) XX:XX:XX:XX:XX While NT machines show up with an actual hostname not null. try putting a send host-name statement in your dhclient.conf (see man 5 dhclient.conf for details) I'd like to not even use the dhcp server but I think that would mean I'd have to setup the Linux machine to be a DNS server wouldn't it? No! Not using dhcp means guessing a free IP - or better getting a real staic one. I don't know what that would do to the rest of the machines on our network, I can't be messing them up or else I'll be in hot water. You can mess at least one box on your net - if you use the same IP as it. Well if your network works like oursno problem :) Someone takes an IP no problem DHCP server gives out that IP...and the unsuspecting user gets an IP adress conflict. They call the helpdesk...helpdesk calls net eng... that adress is taken out of the DHCP pool and put on the exclude list. -Steve -- /* -- Stephen Carpenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] */ E-mail Bumper Stickers: A FREE America or a Drug-Free America: You can't have both! honk if you Love Linux
