Re: I don't need an MTA
Nuno Magalhães wrote: snipped Can i have a regular desktop Debian without an MTA? yes. install 'nullmailer' via aptitude. i use it on my laptops. (haven't read all the posts yet, so someone might have already suggested this) Preston -- Arrant Drivel - really, it's just trash... http://www.arrantdrivel.com/ Where the road takes me - a highwaymans perspective http://www.prestonboyington.com/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I don't need an MTA
On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 1:56 AM, Ron Johnson ron.l.john...@cox.net wrote: On 01/31/2009 07:28 PM, Aneurin Price wrote: ... I'm curious however what it is you have installed that depends on exim, or the mail-transport-agent virtual package. I have no MTA installed on my machine, and no breakages. Would you mind posting the output of 'aptitude why mail-transfer-agent' or 'aptitude why exim', whichever is more enlightening? How do you get system mail from cron? I don't. I have nothing run by cron whose output I care about even slightly :P. It's mostly things like updatedb and prelink. I have one machine with a real MTA configured on it, and a 'proper' mail config, and I don't believe I've had a single system mail worth reading in years. This would be different if I were running unattended servers like apache or postgres, obviously, but I try to keep my main desktop as lightweight as possible. Nye -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I don't need an MTA
Ron Johnson wrote: On 01/31/2009 09:24 PM, Nuno Magalhães wrote: [snip] main concern. I guess having an MTA is a side-effect of the whole client/server thing; prejucide or not it's an opinion. That's Windows-think to say whether a *computer* s a client or server. Such a mindset needs to be banished to get full use out of your machine. In the Unix world, *applications* are client or server. The Operating System itself is fully capable of running both client and server apps at the same time. No, whether a machine is a client or a server existed long before either Windows or Unix existed. It is Linux users who are trying to redefine terms used that way for over 40 years. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I don't need an MTA
On Sun, Feb 01, 2009 at 08:34:46AM -0500, Jerry Stuckle wrote: Ron Johnson wrote: On 01/31/2009 09:24 PM, Nuno Magalhães wrote: [snip] main concern. I guess having an MTA is a side-effect of the whole client/server thing; prejucide or not it's an opinion. That's Windows-think to say whether a *computer* s a client or server. Such a mindset needs to be banished to get full use out of your machine. In the Unix world, *applications* are client or server. The Operating System itself is fully capable of running both client and server apps at the same time. No, whether a machine is a client or a server existed long before either Windows or Unix existed. It is Linux users who are trying to redefine terms used that way for over 40 years. actually terms client and server do not correspond to computers but to applications running on those computers. server is a program(usually daemon) providing a service to a client application. referring to a computer as a server just means that it is a computer expected to run server applications to provide services to client applications. it doesn't mean that you can't run a web browser on a server computer. and therefore it doesn't mean you can't run a server application on your notebook, think about syslog, print server etc. mk -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I don't need an MTA
I don't consider myself windows-centric. I've been using Debian at home since Woody and even though i'm not afraid of the command prompt i don't consider myself a power-user either (i'll get there). The point being yes, i know what clients and servers are and agree with Martin Kraus' definition, which applies also to any other OS btw. The original question wasn't cultural but technical though. :) Anyone running X is running a server even though a desktop machine is usualy not a server machine. Same for CUPS and i'll soon install nginx on my desktop to fiddle around with php. Apache is too big... but maybe i'll install it as well, it's used a lot... oh and mysql and sqlite, the latter not being a server though. I have nginx+sqlite in another debian machine, a regular desktop machine acting as a server machine, but it has a noisy fan and it's kinda sluggish; and my desktop is more than capable of handling the load. Back to the original subject... The way i see it, most regular users either use webmail, or an MUA to conenct to webmail accounts. Technicaly speaking, i think there should be a way to configure mail-dependant programs to either use an MTA or use a regular syslog or similar, and let the admin decide how s/he wants to keep track. Granted exim isn't doing much on my system and is small, i'm picky and i don't like having packages i don't use/need. I'm allergic to gnome et-all for the same reasons. Back to exim, if i have X i have x11-common (and i also have avahi) therefore i apaprently must have lsb, which i believe is a metapackage for lsb-* (i have base, core, cxx, etc installed). So apaprently i can't just remove the MTA. However, following John Hasler's suggestion i tried removing exim just to see: $ apt-get remove exim4 [...] The following packages will be REMOVED: exim4 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 1 to remove and 70 not upgraded. After this operation, 73.7kB disk space will be freed. Didn't Y it (and got the same results for purge), but what exactly to i have depending on it after all? Oddly enough running grep exim * on /var/log only returns matches in the popularity contest, but not in dmesg. Osamu Aoki: I do not get what you are at? I assumed dmesg would have some reference to exim, hence the grep. dmesg |grep xim returned nil as well. Your problem was DNS look up. Please address the real problem but do not kill the messanger :-) Yeah i oughta look into that and i think it lies with the router, but that would be another post. I don't wanna kill it, just fire it ;) For now i'll stick with Florian Kulzer's suggestion of reducing DNS, since that's the main issue for me (slow booting). Thanks for the input :) Nuno Magalhães -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I don't need an MTA
Nuno Magalhães: Would you mind posting the output of 'aptitude why mail-transfer-agent' or 'aptitude why exim', whichever is more enlightening? $ aptitude why mail-transport-agent i lsb Depends lsb-core i A lsb-core Depends exim4 | mail-transport-agent Thanks a lot for showing this command, I didn't knew aptitude's 'why' action yet. Very useful! J. -- When I am doing sex I wonder if my emotions can be detected by alien civilisations. [Agree] [Disagree] http://www.slowlydownward.com/NODATA/data_enter2.html signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: I don't need an MTA
I wrote: No. Lsb is an extra package that you almost certainly don't need unless you are running LSB-compliant closed-source software. LSB stands for Linux Standard Base. Google it. Tzafrir Cohen writes: 'aptitude rdepends lsb-base' gives results such as avahi-daemon, apache2.2-common, bittorrent, dbus, x11-common, dhcpbd and even our own exim4 . Lsb and lsb-base are two different packages: Package: lsb-base Priority: required Section: misc Installed-Size: 72 Maintainer: Chris Lawrence lawre...@debian.org Architecture: all Source: lsb Version: 3.2-20 Replaces: lsb ( 2.0-6), lsb-core ( 2.0-6) Depends: sed, ncurses-bin Conflicts: lsb ( 2.0-6), lsb-core ( 2.0-6) Filename: pool/main/l/lsb/lsb-base_3.2-20_all.deb Size: 19506 MD5sum: 40e8abbcba50297be6b2b271b3288e6e SHA1: 2d5e29a6dd47b85c52154dac1c0a4d1c708df341 SHA256: eca9b12ceb6749b1765535b5e0216d85e424cd72e93f8b2ad6bee4682ecc505a Description: Linux Standard Base 3.2 init script functionality The Linux Standard Base (http://www.linuxbase.org/) is a standard core system that third-party applications written for Linux can depend upon. . This package only includes the init-functions shell library, which may be used by other packages' initialization scripts for console logging and other purposes. More and more init script, for instance, use /lib/lsb/init-functions . Which is the only thing that lsb-base contains. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I don't need an MTA
Hi, On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 09:58:01PM +, Nuno Magalhães wrote: Greetings. I use webmail, i'm not running a mail server. At most i'd use an MUA to comunicate with whichever mail services i use. However, i must have exim4 installed. How can i work around this? Regardless of how much resources it requires i find it irritating. The real nudge is having Starting MTA: lagging by boot by half a minute or so. It is well known problem which you can avoid by reconfiguring exim4. $ sudo dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config When asked: Keep number of DNS-queries minimal (Dial-on-Demand)? Answer YES if you are not connected to insternet when booting. Oddly enough running grep exim * on /var/log only returns matches in the popularity contest, but not in dmesg. I do not get what you are at? Can i have a regular desktop Debian without an MTA? Anything is possible ... but I recommend you not to do this. It is not worth your effort. Your problem was DNS look up. Please address the real problem but do not kill the messanger :-) Osamu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I don't need an MTA
On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Nuno Magalhães nunomagalh...@eu.ipp.ptwrote: The way i see it, most regular users either use webmail, or an MUA to conenct to webmail accounts. Technicaly speaking, i think there should be a way to configure mail-dependant programs to either use an MTA or use a regular syslog or similar, and let the admin decide how s/he wants to keep track. Granted exim isn't doing much on my system and is small, i'm picky and i don't like having packages i don't use/need. I'm allergic to gnome et-all for the same reasons. I'm (surely anyone to sate anything, but a debian user who trashed windows since etch) agree with this argument: i use gmail-whit-bell-and-whistles (claendare reader) for the mail and rsyslog for the system warnings and etcetera. I simply want to get rid of mta, because it's really not used in my system (the only root-mail i ever seen was by smartd upon my input throught a test). And anacron and cron simply recommend a mta! The real issue - however that seems to me - is with at... (and drupal6 for those needing it...) pierpa...@piccolino:~$ apt-cache showpkg at Package: at Versions: 3.1.10.2 (/var/lib/apt/lists/ftp.it.debian.org_debian_dists_lenny_main_binary-amd64_Packages) (/var/lib/dpkg/status) Description Language: File: /var/lib/apt/lists/ftp.it.debian.org_debian_dists_lenny_main_binary-amd64_Packages MD5: 97e204a9f4ad8c681dbd54ec7c505251 Description Language: it File: /var/lib/apt/lists/ftp.it.debian.org_debian_dists_lenny_main_i18n_Translation-it MD5: 97e204a9f4ad8c681dbd54ec7c505251 Reverse Depends: mirror,at lsb-core,at libschedule-at-perl,at libgpeschedule0,at gpe-announce,at gnome-schedule,at devscripts,at Dependencies: 3.1.10.2 - libc6 (2 2.7-1) libpam0g (2 0.99.7.1) exim4 (16 (null)) mail-transport-agent (0 (null)) lsb-base (2 3.0-10)
Re: I don't need an MTA
Hi, On Sun, Feb 01, 2009 at 03:21:24PM +, Nuno Magalhães wrote: ... Back to exim, if i have X i have x11-common (and i also have avahi) therefore i apaprently must have lsb, which i believe is a metapackage for lsb-* (i have base, core, cxx, etc installed). So apaprently i can't just remove the MTA. However, following John Hasler's suggestion i tried removing exim just to see: $ apt-get remove exim4 [...] The following packages will be REMOVED: exim4 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 1 to remove and 70 not upgraded. After this operation, 73.7kB disk space will be freed. Of couse if you are using lenny or etch, exim4 is : Description: metapackage to ease Exim MTA (v4) installation Exim (v4) is a mail transport agent. exim4 is the metapackage depending on the essential components for a basic exim4 installation. This means you can remove it :-) (Suggestion was right one for sarge, I guess.) To kill REAL exim4, kill one of these on your system: exim4-daemon-light exim4-daemon-heavy exim4-daemon-custom This explains why. Oddly enough running grep exim * on /var/log only returns matches in the popularity contest, but not in dmesg. Osamu Aoki: I do not get what you are at? I assumed dmesg would have some reference to exim, hence the grep. dmesg |grep xim returned nil as well. dmesg is kernel activity... so no wonder. Your problem was DNS look up. Please address the real problem but do not kill the messanger :-) Yeah i oughta look into that and i think it lies with the router, but that would be another post. I don't wanna kill it, just fire it ;) Are you conected via wifi? Then your system's network may not be available when exim4 was started. For now i'll stick with Florian Kulzer's suggestion of reducing DNS, since that's the main issue for me (slow booting). Smart move :-) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I don't need an MTA
Martin Kraus wrote: On Sun, Feb 01, 2009 at 08:34:46AM -0500, Jerry Stuckle wrote: Ron Johnson wrote: On 01/31/2009 09:24 PM, Nuno Magalhães wrote: [snip] main concern. I guess having an MTA is a side-effect of the whole client/server thing; prejucide or not it's an opinion. That's Windows-think to say whether a *computer* s a client or server. Such a mindset needs to be banished to get full use out of your machine. In the Unix world, *applications* are client or server. The Operating System itself is fully capable of running both client and server apps at the same time. No, whether a machine is a client or a server existed long before either Windows or Unix existed. It is Linux users who are trying to redefine terms used that way for over 40 years. actually terms client and server do not correspond to computers but to applications running on those computers. server is a program(usually daemon) providing a service to a client application. referring to a computer as a server just means that it is a computer expected to run server applications to provide services to client applications. it doesn't mean that you can't run a web browser on a server computer. and therefore it doesn't mean you can't run a server application on your notebook, think about syslog, print server etc. mk I never said server machines can't run client applications. But the term server has always referred to machines who's main purpose is to provide services to other machines (clients). As I said - it has been that way for the more than 40 years I've been involved in computers - dating way back to arpanet and before. And it's Linux users who are attempting to redefine the term to what they want it to mean. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I don't need an MTA
On 02/01/2009 12:49 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: [snip] I never said server machines can't run client applications. But the term server has always referred to machines who's main purpose is to provide services to other machines (clients). As I said - it has been that way for the more than 40 years I've been involved in computers - dating way back to arpanet and before. And it's Linux users who are attempting to redefine the term to what they want it to mean. The Sun 3/280 rack-mount server ran the same OS as the 3/60 pizza box. But they could *do* the same things. Even if your SFF box only has a 100GB disk, 1GB RAM and a 1-core 32-bit CPU, that's still not-to-long-ago's server-class specs, and *definitely* *can* run exim4-daemon-light without breaking a sweat. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA I am not surprised, for we live long and are celebrated poopers. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I don't need an MTA
On Sun, Feb 01, 2009 at 03:21:24PM +, Nuno Magalhães wrote: [snip] For now i'll stick with Florian Kulzer's suggestion of reducing DNS, since that's the main issue for me (slow booting). if its a start up problem, and you are not really using the mta why not go update-rc.d -f exim4 remove this will take it out of the startup process. if you don't send outbound mail (nor receive mail) then you will be okay, local mail (from cron and such ) use sendmail (or equiv application) to send local mail, try it go /etc/init.d/exim4 stop mutt root you will see mail arrive at roots email. All that happens during boot up is the deamon is started Alex Thanks for the input :) Nuno Magalhães -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org -- Free societies are hopeful societies. And free societies will be allies against these hateful few who have no conscience, who kill at the whim of a hat. - George W. Bush 09/17/2004 Washington, DC signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: I don't need an MTA
On Sun, Feb 01, 2009 at 03:24:57AM +, Nuno Magalhães nunomagalh...@eu.ipp.pt was heard to say: Would you mind posting the output of 'aptitude why mail-transfer-agent' or 'aptitude why exim', whichever is more enlightening? $ aptitude why mail-transport-agent i lsb Depends lsb-core i A lsb-core Depends exim4 | mail-transport-agent Same results if i why on exim4. I assume lsb includes cron and other base-level tools that require mail functionality. Is this all that is depending on the MTA in my system? What's the equivalent apt command btw? show and showpkg don't seem to apply only to installed packages. If you add -v, you'll get a list of all the packages that depend on m-t-a -- including packages that aren't installed, although installed chains should be listed first. You could also do $ aptitude search '?depends(mail-transport-agent)' Daniel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I don't need an MTA
On Sun, Feb 01, 2009 at 04:30:49PM -0800, Daniel Burrows dburr...@debian.org was heard to say: $ aptitude search '?depends(mail-transport-agent)' Sorry, that should be $ aptitude search '?installed?depends(?name(^mail-transport-agent$))' to restrict it to installed packages and to make extra-sure nothing else sneaks in. Daniel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I don't need an MTA
Sorry, that should be $ aptitude search '?installed?depends(?name(^mail-transport-agent$))' to restrict it to installed packages and to make extra-sure nothing else sneaks in. Before i saw your second post i ran: $ aptitude search '?depends(mail-transport-agent)' |grep ^i i A at - Delayed job execution and batch processing i A bsd-mailx - A simple mail user agent i A lsb-core- Linux Standard Base 3.2 core support packa same results. :) Nuno Magalhães -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
I don't need an MTA
Greetings. I use webmail, i'm not running a mail server. At most i'd use an MUA to comunicate with whichever mail services i use. However, i must have exim4 installed. How can i work around this? Regardless of how much resources it requires i find it irritating. The real nudge is having Starting MTA: lagging by boot by half a minute or so. Oddly enough running grep exim * on /var/log only returns matches in the popularity contest, but not in dmesg. Can i have a regular desktop Debian without an MTA? Nuno Magalhães -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I don't need an MTA
On Sat Jan 31, 2009 at 21:58:01 +, Nuno Magalh??es wrote: How can i work around this? Regardless of how much resources it requires i find it irritating. The real nudge is having Starting MTA: lagging by boot by half a minute or so. You need one, as far as the system is concerned, to ensure that you have cronjob mail, etc, going to the correct local user. To avoid having exim4 running you could look at some of the other MTAs which are much more lightweight - including my own skxmail: http://blog.steve.org.uk/tags/skxmail/ Generally you can find a list via: apt-cache search mail-transport-agent Can i have a regular desktop Debian without an MTA? No. Not without creating your own package which provides mail-transport-agent - otherwise things like cron will fail to be installable. But you can install a leightweight one, or simply install exim4 but curtail it such that it doesn't run: update-rc.d -f exim4 remove Steve -- Managed Anti-Spam Service http://mail-scanning.com/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I don't need an MTA
On 01/31/2009 03:58 PM, Nuno Magalhães wrote: Greetings. I use webmail, i'm not running a mail server. At most i'd use an MUA to comunicate with whichever mail services i use. However, i must have exim4 installed. How can i work around this? Regardless of how much resources it requires i find it irritating. The real nudge is having Starting MTA: lagging by boot by half a minute or so. That's the problem, not the fact that you have exim. It's misconfigured somehow. (But since I don't use exim, I couldn't tell you how to diagnose the problem.) Oddly enough running grep exim * on /var/log only returns matches in the popularity contest, but not in dmesg. Can i have a regular desktop Debian without an MTA? Desktop? Yes. Linux? No. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA I am not surprised, for we live long and are celebrated poopers. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I don't need an MTA
Ron Johnson wrote: On 01/31/2009 03:58 PM, Nuno Magalhães wrote: Can i have a regular desktop Debian without an MTA? Linux? No. Please, don't overestimate :) Base system is also Linux, though it doesn't contain any MTA for the obvious reasons. -- Eugene V. Lyubimkin aka JackYF, JID: jackyf.devel(maildog)gmail.com C++/Perl developer, Debian Maintainer signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: I don't need an MTA
On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 16:12:24 -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: On 01/31/2009 03:58 PM, Nuno Magalhães wrote: Greetings. I use webmail, i'm not running a mail server. At most i'd use an MUA to comunicate with whichever mail services i use. However, i must have exim4 installed. How can i work around this? Regardless of how much resources it requires i find it irritating. The real nudge is having Starting MTA: lagging by boot by half a minute or so. That's the problem, not the fact that you have exim. It's misconfigured somehow. (But since I don't use exim, I couldn't tell you how to diagnose the problem.) Most likely, the delay can be avoided by choosing Keep number of DNS-queries minimal in the configuration dialog. (dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config) -- Regards,| http://users.icfo.es/Florian.Kulzer Florian | -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I don't need an MTA
* Nuno Magalhães nunomagalh...@eu.ipp.pt [2009 Jan 31 16:00 -0600]: Can i have a regular desktop Debian without an MTA? Difficult, but try the esmtp package. It is very light weight and only runs when actually needed. - Nate -- The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true. Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I don't need an MTA
Thanks for the suggestions. For now i'll try restraining DNS. Whenever the loss of mouse pointer forces me to reboot again i'll see it it works :) If not, either getting it out of the init scripts o switching to another MTA. I like the client/server approach but this MTA stuff is kind of annoying for regular desktop use. Is there a bogus MTA? One that'll pretend to be one and accept stuff from its clients but basically /dev/null everything? Thanks again. Nuno Magalhães -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I don't need an MTA
On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Nuno Magalhães nunomagalh...@eu.ipp.pt wrote: Thanks for the suggestions. For now i'll try restraining DNS. Whenever the loss of mouse pointer forces me to reboot again i'll see it it works :) If not, either getting it out of the init scripts o switching to another MTA. I like the client/server approach but this MTA stuff is kind of annoying for regular desktop use. Is there a bogus MTA? One that'll pretend to be one and accept stuff from its clients but basically /dev/null everything? I've not found one in a quick look (you'd think 'nullmailer' might fit the bill, with a name like that, but you'd be wrong). I'm curious however what it is you have installed that depends on exim, or the mail-transport-agent virtual package. I have no MTA installed on my machine, and no breakages. Would you mind posting the output of 'aptitude why mail-transfer-agent' or 'aptitude why exim', whichever is more enlightening? Nye -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I don't need an MTA
On 01/31/2009 07:28 PM, Aneurin Price wrote: On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Nuno Magalhães nunomagalh...@eu.ipp.pt wrote: Thanks for the suggestions. For now i'll try restraining DNS. Whenever the loss of mouse pointer forces me to reboot again i'll see it it works :) If not, either getting it out of the init scripts o switching to another MTA. I like the client/server approach but this MTA stuff is kind of annoying for regular desktop use. Is there a bogus MTA? One that'll pretend to be one and accept stuff from its clients but basically /dev/null everything? I've not found one in a quick look (you'd think 'nullmailer' might fit the bill, with a name like that, but you'd be wrong). I'm curious however what it is you have installed that depends on exim, or the mail-transport-agent virtual package. I have no MTA installed on my machine, and no breakages. Would you mind posting the output of 'aptitude why mail-transfer-agent' or 'aptitude why exim', whichever is more enlightening? How do you get system mail from cron? -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA I am not surprised, for we live long and are celebrated poopers. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I don't need an MTA
2009/2/1 Nuno Magalhães nunomagalh...@eu.ipp.pt: I like the client/server approach but this MTA stuff is kind of annoying for regular desktop use. Is there a bogus MTA? One that'll pretend to be one and accept stuff from its clients but basically /dev/null everything? I like nullmailer, since you don't seem to care: no (real) setup required just have the mail address you want important system messages to be sent to in /etc/nullmailer/adminaddr (or similiar after installing you'll find it) hth martin -- http://soup.alt.delete.co.at http://www.xing.com/profile/Martin_Marcher http://www.linkedin.com/in/martinmarcher You are not free to read this message, by doing so, you have violated my licence and are required to urinate publicly. Thank you. Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I don't need an MTA
Nye writes: I'm curious however what it is you have installed that depends on exim, or the mail-transport-agent virtual package. bsd-mailx is standard and depends on mail-transport-agent. You can, of course, remove bsd-mailx though this anti-MTA prejudice baffles me. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I don't need an MTA
Would you mind posting the output of 'aptitude why mail-transfer-agent' or 'aptitude why exim', whichever is more enlightening? $ aptitude why mail-transport-agent i lsb Depends lsb-core i A lsb-core Depends exim4 | mail-transport-agent Same results if i why on exim4. I assume lsb includes cron and other base-level tools that require mail functionality. Is this all that is depending on the MTA in my system? What's the equivalent apt command btw? show and showpkg don't seem to apply only to installed packages. As far as i can tell from locate and du, the whole MTA-stuff uses less than 2MB, so i guess fixing the boot delay exim causes/d would be my main concern. I guess having an MTA is a side-effect of the whole client/server thing; prejucide or not it's an opinion. Thanks for the help. Nuno Magalhães -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I don't need an MTA
Nuno writes: I assume lsb includes cron and other base-level tools that require mail functionality. No. Lsb is an extra package that you almost certainly don't need unless you are running LSB-compliant closed-source software. LSB stands for Linux Standard Base. Google it. Is this all that is depending on the MTA in my system? Why don't you try to remove the MTA and see what complains? -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I don't need an MTA
On 01/31/2009 09:24 PM, Nuno Magalhães wrote: [snip] main concern. I guess having an MTA is a side-effect of the whole client/server thing; prejucide or not it's an opinion. That's Windows-think to say whether a *computer* s a client or server. Such a mindset needs to be banished to get full use out of your machine. In the Unix world, *applications* are client or server. The Operating System itself is fully capable of running both client and server apps at the same time. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA I am not surprised, for we live long and are celebrated poopers. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I don't need an MTA
On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 09:55:50PM -0600, John Hasler wrote: Nuno writes: I assume lsb includes cron and other base-level tools that require mail functionality. No. Lsb is an extra package that you almost certainly don't need unless you are running LSB-compliant closed-source software. LSB stands for Linux Standard Base. Google it. 'aptitude rdepends lsb-base' gives results such as avahi-daemon, apache2.2-common, bittorrent, dbus, x11-common, dhcpbd and even our own exim4 . More and more init script, for instance, use /lib/lsb/init-functions . -- Tzafrir Cohen | tzaf...@jabber.org | VIM is http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's tzaf...@cohens.org.il || best ICQ# 16849754 || friend -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
