Re: Iceweasel Latest update stealing bandwidth uselessly
On 2014-12-07, Ric Moore wayward4...@gmail.com wrote: Like the OP, I am on HughesNet with savage restrictions on bandwidth usage and I would sure be concerned over what or who is stealing it. If anyone has a clue, I'd be interested in hearing it. The Grinch stole Christmas once. Reco's *about:config* changes have to do with Firefox's built-in anti-phishing/anti-malware functionality (one of which has to do with those google dogs, and one of which apparently does not). http://kb.mozillazine.org/Browser.safebrowsing.enabled http://kb.mozillazine.org/Browser.safebrowsing.malware.enabled Anyway, stealing bandwidth uselessly is a terrible thing; I mean, if you're gonna be stealing, make it useful people, make it useful. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/slrnm8ao8o.252.cu...@einstein.electron.org
Re: Re: Iceweasel Latest update stealing bandwidth uselessly -OT
On 07 Dec 2014, Clive Standbridge wrote: I think the Dali Llama is a Spanish surrealistic painting of a South American ruminant, noted for fleecing the tin foil crowd. You win! -- Clive In the film Troy there is a scene in which a lot of animals are stampeding, among which you can glimpse a llama. Evidence of an early contact with the New World? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141207215907.GA18565@rimmer.localdomain -- Anthony Campbell http://www.acampbell.org.uk -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141208093616.ga1...@parnitha.acampbell.org.uk
Re: Iceweasel Latest update stealing bandwidth uselessly
Thank you all for some useful and interesting (strange??) replies. There is no decrease in stolen bandwidth - still approx 5 - 6Mbyte/10min using Reko's settings:- browser.safebrowsing.malware.enabled = false browser.safebrowsing.enabled = false I notice that there are five other 'browser.safebrowsing.' entries with various https addresses with google.com as part of the string:- browser.safebrowsing.appRepURL browser.safebrowsing.gethashURL browser.safebrowsing.malware.reportURL browser.safebrowsing.reportURL browser.safebrowsing.updateURL There is also a geko.handlerService with google.com as part of the string. Extensions and/or add-ons installed:- Plugins:- DivX Browser Plug-in Gnome Shell Integration iTunes Applications Detector mplayerplug-in is now gecko-mediaplayer 1.0.6 Quicktime Plug-in 7.6.9 Realplayer 9 Shockwave Flash 11.2.202.411 Shockwave Flash 12.1.r601 Skype Buttons for Kopote VLC Web Plugin Windows Media Player Plug-in Extensions:- DownloadHelper 4.9.24 DownThenAll! 2.0.17 Flash Video Downloader Full HD Di=ownload (4K) 6.8.3 Flashblock 1.5.17 Flashgot 1.5.6.8 TrackMeNot 0.8.13 WorldIP 3.0.8 While I was checking the about:config and the Plugins and Extensions 22MByte went down the google gurgler *^*^*%$% even with Reko's settings in place. Some of the traffic is on HTTP, but most (and most persistent) is on HTTPS. It starts off with a number (4 - 8?) of 74.125.237.xxx addresses of mixed HTTP and HTTPS, but after a while, the HTTP drop out, leaving only two HTTPS. This process could take about ten minutes. Ten minutes of Wireshark file capture could get quite large unless I filter on that 74.125.237.xxx address range. While this may reduce the file upload size, may we not be missing some sort of 'other' IP address 'calling' or 'beaconing' for itwa / google to start their BS? As for LLamas, Yeti's and other furry animals:- I subscribe to as little as possible and this includes Llamas, Yeti's and even Alpaccas, but I believe that Alpaccas are on the upgrade in Aus. ;-) Thanks and regards Alex -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/blu436-smtp2275f5874b7678b0471c652ae...@phx.gbl
Re: Iceweasel Latest update stealing bandwidth uselessly -OT
On Mon, 08 Dec 2014, Anthony Campbell wrote: On 07 Dec 2014, Clive Standbridge wrote: I think the Dali Llama is a Spanish surrealistic painting of a South American ruminant, noted for fleecing the tin foil crowd. You win! In the film Troy there is a scene in which a lot of animals are stampeding, among which you can glimpse a llama. Evidence of an early contact with the New World? Nah, it is just a wester-egg :-) -- One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond where the shadows lie. -- The Silicon Valley Tarot Henrique Holschuh -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141208132720.gc12...@khazad-dum.debian.net
Re: Iceweasel Latest update stealing bandwidth uselessly
On Mon, 08 Dec 2014, Alex wrote: Extensions and/or add-ons installed:- Plugins:- DivX Browser Plug-in Gnome Shell Integration iTunes Applications Detector mplayerplug-in is now gecko-mediaplayer 1.0.6 Quicktime Plug-in 7.6.9 Realplayer 9 Shockwave Flash 11.2.202.411 Shockwave Flash 12.1.r601 Skype Buttons for Kopote VLC Web Plugin Windows Media Player Plug-in Extensions:- DownloadHelper 4.9.24 DownThenAll! 2.0.17 Flash Video Downloader Full HD Di=ownload (4K) 6.8.3 Flashblock 1.5.17 Flashgot 1.5.6.8 TrackMeNot 0.8.13 WorldIP 3.0.8 Meh, disable them all and check if that helps. Some of the traffic is on HTTP, but most (and most persistent) is on HTTPS. It starts off with a number (4 - 8?) of 74.125.237.xxx Disable OCSP. Does it fix things? There's a lot of crap the browser will check before it tries to connect somewhere. And while you are usually better off with some of them disabled, this is not true for everything. At some point it is going to be easier to just tcpdump -X -s1600 (or use wireshark) the offending traffic, and looking at what is inside. -- One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond where the shadows lie. -- The Silicon Valley Tarot Henrique Holschuh -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141208133122.gd12...@khazad-dum.debian.net
Re: Iceweasel Latest update stealing bandwidth uselessly
On 12/8/2014 6:25 AM, Alex wrote: Thank you all for some useful and interesting (strange??) replies. There is no decrease in stolen bandwidth - still approx 5 - 6Mbyte/10min using Reko's settings:- browser.safebrowsing.malware.enabled = false browser.safebrowsing.enabled = false I notice that there are five other 'browser.safebrowsing.' entries with various https addresses with google.com as part of the string:- browser.safebrowsing.appRepURL browser.safebrowsing.gethashURL browser.safebrowsing.malware.reportURL browser.safebrowsing.reportURL browser.safebrowsing.updateURL There is also a geko.handlerService with google.com as part of the string. Extensions and/or add-ons installed:- Plugins:- DivX Browser Plug-in Gnome Shell Integration iTunes Applications Detector mplayerplug-in is now gecko-mediaplayer 1.0.6 Quicktime Plug-in 7.6.9 Realplayer 9 Shockwave Flash 11.2.202.411 Shockwave Flash 12.1.r601 Skype Buttons for Kopote VLC Web Plugin Windows Media Player Plug-in Extensions:- DownloadHelper 4.9.24 DownThenAll! 2.0.17 Flash Video Downloader Full HD Di=ownload (4K) 6.8.3 Flashblock 1.5.17 Flashgot 1.5.6.8 TrackMeNot 0.8.13 WorldIP 3.0.8 While I was checking the about:config and the Plugins and Extensions 22MByte went down the google gurgler *^*^*%$% even with Reko's settings in place. Some of the traffic is on HTTP, but most (and most persistent) is on HTTPS. It starts off with a number (4 - 8?) of 74.125.237.xxx addresses of mixed HTTP and HTTPS, but after a while, the HTTP drop out, leaving only two HTTPS. This process could take about ten minutes. Ten minutes of Wireshark file capture could get quite large unless I filter on that 74.125.237.xxx address range. While this may reduce the file upload size, may we not be missing some sort of 'other' IP address 'calling' or 'beaconing' for itwa / google to start their BS? As for LLamas, Yeti's and other furry animals:- I subscribe to as little as possible and this includes Llamas, Yeti's and even Alpaccas, but I believe that Alpaccas are on the upgrade in Aus. ;-) Thanks and regards Alex Alex, That's a lot of plugins and extensions. I would suggest you disable all of them, and see if the problem goes away. If it does, re-enable them one at a time and see which one is causing your problem. Jerry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5485c2c7.4040...@gmail.com
Re: Re: Iceweasel Latest update stealing bandwidth uselessly -OT
On Mon, Dec 08, 2014 at 09:36:16AM +, Anthony Campbell wrote: On 07 Dec 2014, Clive Standbridge wrote: I think the Dali Llama is a Spanish surrealistic painting of a South American ruminant, noted for fleecing the tin foil crowd. You win! -- Clive In the film Troy there is a scene in which a lot of animals are stampeding, among which you can glimpse a llama. Evidence of an early contact with the New World? Watch out there are llamas! A llama once bit my sister ... no really ... The person responsible for writing this post has just been sacked! -- If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. --- Malcolm X -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141209054117.GB31245@tal
Iceweasel Latest update stealing bandwidth uselessly
Warm greetings to all the wonderful maintainers, I am sorry to report that, with the latest Iceweasel (31.3.0) update came something I did NOT want:- This version is constantly loading two google cookies - google.com google.com.au (country specific). If you go into Edit - Preferences - Privacy - Show Cookies and try to delete these unwanted (in my case) cookies, they will re-appear in seconds and have to be deleted again, and again ad nauseum. If you then try to 'block' these cookies in Edit - Preferences - Privacy - Exceptions, then addresses in the 74.125.237.xxx IP range continue to 'steal' bandwidth by trying to communicate with the Iceweasel browser. I have tested this at length using a blank (new tab) in Iceweasel and leaving this open, while watching the 'Activity' and 'Received' counters on Firestarter increment while nothing else is accessing the internet. The only 'Active connections' listed in Firestarter are to 'Program' = iceweasel and are consistently 'Destination' address 74.125.237.xxx and using port 443 - HTTPS. This 'bandwidth theft' happens at a rate of nearly 5Mbyte (4.9MByte) per 10 minute period or about 30MByte per hour, while Iceweasel is doing nothing - at a blank new tab. This would equate to an overhead of approximately seven percent of my total allocation. While this may not seem much, when you are on a fixed income, every bit (pun intended) counts. This does not happen with Epiphany or Konquerer. Using http://www.pagesinventory.com/ to look up this IP range I find that there is a substantial block of addresses from approx. 74.125.237.135 up to about 200 (and beyond?) that is registered to itwa.net. When I try to find out about itwa.net by accessing their web page through a browser, there is nothing out there - blank page. I then used Firestarter's configuration files /etc/firestarter/outbound/deny-to and /etc/firestarter/outbound/deny-from to block / deny access to 74.125.237.136/27 and 74.125.237.167/27 (block of 60 addresses from xxx.136 to xxx.197). I found that this stopped this on-going wastage of my bandwidth, but this also effectively cut off ALL access to many sites that use embedded google maps to show where their various business premises are located, when I wish to try to conduct business with them. I also found that I could no longer access any instructional / educational / current affairs videos on youtube. It was this that alerted me to the fact that google must be using these addresses - since google owns youtube and google maps. I have long distrusted google and for this reason google is my search engine of VERY LAST RESORT!!! I do not wish to contract with them in any form or manner and I do not consent to any of their presence on any of my IT resources. It is for this reason, that I have Iceweasel Edit - Preferences - Privacy - Accept cookies from sites - Always - Keep Until - I close Iceweasel set, so as to clear out these un-wanted cookies. I use Linux (more especially Debian - 'The Ethical Linux'), so that I may have SOME control over my own IT resources. So when I am forced to have cookies I do not want and have my bandwidth stolen, even when I am running The Ethical Linux, I get very annoyed. II feel that someone has slipped us something sick and wrong into this wonderful 'brew' that is 'Debian - The Ethical Linux'. This is 'theft' of bandwidth for which I PAY, which is for my exclusive use only - NOT some snooping, mongrel, NSA lapdog with way too much money. Not only is this theft but it is also done under subterfuge by using an unrelated domain name - itwa.net. A system can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. The traitor moves amongst those within the gates freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself, for the traitor appears not a traitor. He speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a system, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of its nations, he infects the body politics so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear. Beware, beware, beware... -- Marcus Tullius Cicero 42 B.C I look forward to this issue being fixed. Thanking you in anticipation Kind regards and best wishes again to the maintainers for their efforts with Linux and Freedom of Choice. Ale
Re: Iceweasel Latest update stealing bandwidth uselessly
Hi. On Sun, 7 Dec 2014 22:03:08 +1100 Alex avko...@hotmail.com wrote: Warm greetings to all the wonderful maintainers, I am sorry to report that, with the latest Iceweasel (31.3.0) update came something I did NOT want:- This version is constantly loading two google cookies - google.com google.com.au (country specific). If you go into Edit - Preferences - Privacy - Show Cookies and try to delete these unwanted (in my case) cookies, they will re-appear in seconds and have to be deleted again, and again ad nauseum. If you then try to 'block' these cookies in Edit - Preferences - Privacy - Exceptions, then addresses in the 74.125.237.xxx IP range continue to 'steal' bandwidth by trying to communicate with the Iceweasel browser. Does this annoying behaviour reproduce if the following iceweasel options are set? browser.safebrowsing.malware.enabled = false browser.fasebrowsing.enabled = false Also, does it use HTTP or HTTPS? Reco -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141207154847.4395fe6d8e1618bb565cc...@gmail.com
Re: Iceweasel Latest update stealing bandwidth uselessly
On 12/7/2014 6:03 AM, Alex wrote: Warm greetings to all the wonderful maintainers, I am sorry to report that, with the latest Iceweasel (31.3.0) update came something I did NOT want:- This version is constantly loading two google cookies - google.com google.com.au (country specific). If you go into Edit - Preferences - Privacy - Show Cookies and try to delete these unwanted (in my case) cookies, they will re-appear in seconds and have to be deleted again, and again ad nauseum. If you then try to 'block' these cookies in Edit - Preferences - Privacy - Exceptions, then addresses in the 74.125.237.xxx IP range continue to 'steal' bandwidth by trying to communicate with the Iceweasel browser. snip Ale What extensions and/or add-ons do you have installed? Jerry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54845415.1070...@gmail.com
Re: Iceweasel Latest update stealing bandwidth uselessly
On 2014-12-07, Reco recovery...@gmail.com wrote: browser.fasebrowsing.enabled = false -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/slrnm88ufh.22b.cu...@einstein.electron.org
Re: [OT] Iceweasel Latest update stealing bandwidth uselessly
Hi. On Sun, 7 Dec 2014 16:01:53 + (UTC) Curt cu...@free.fr wrote: On 2014-12-07, Reco recovery...@gmail.com wrote: browser.fasebrowsing.enabled = false Hehe. A funny typo on my part :) Reco -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141207193633.74247dab83ece352a33e3...@gmail.com
Re: Iceweasel Latest update stealing bandwidth uselessly
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 12/07/2014 07:48 AM, Reco wrote: On Sun, 7 Dec 2014 22:03:08 +1100 Alex avko...@hotmail.com wrote: Warm greetings to all the wonderful maintainers, I am sorry to report that, with the latest Iceweasel (31.3.0) update came something I did NOT want:- This version is constantly loading two google cookies - google.com google.com.au (country specific). If you go into Edit - Preferences - Privacy - Show Cookies and try to delete these unwanted (in my case) cookies, they will re-appear in seconds and have to be deleted again, and again ad nauseum. Does this annoying behaviour reproduce if the following iceweasel options are set? browser.safebrowsing.malware.enabled = false browser.fasebrowsing.enabled = false Also, does it use HTTP or HTTPS? Reco My up-to-date wheezy with the latest Iceweasel (31.3.0) update works correctly. I've had Reco's suggested settings for some time, and they should fix the problem. Ralph -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Icedove - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJUhI1sAAoJECe2FpioHXO6yM8H/23zMPGvXca3FwRgoyNBEKu1 Z+GWt+xLeTlp7W8BfStLd8anLH0APXVAFhicdBpl90SrSNGf37Wil72n/Dix3xsJ hTrpZKPVutmoF7TontHxyqnAMIyH84fHtNsHFIyafBMKzeRYoQZzQY0DzZvpJdLx 80YkhOmjtXRavnoKgAn8K+jSgg3msT9h/zE9eW/hl3EZx/X2dOQTrnqgy83SLJ6j reuzy5OGSyIhgV2gQtNC/gHy3sImPP1GifnSBJW2D8ruqEuF+17M0kGAd+Oln1ps uZh7M3r7xL1GqL6z+xpIVIwRfXHe8FFh5X37rACWxIwLnNp45EVQJBTsdhDplXk= =6X5K -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54848d7c.9010...@rcn.com
Re: Iceweasel Latest update stealing bandwidth uselessly
On 12/07/2014 06:03 AM, Alex wrote: This is 'theft' of bandwidth for which I PAY, which is for my exclusive use only - NOT some snooping, mongrel, NSA lapdog with way too much money. Not only is this theft but it is also done under subterfuge by using an unrelated domain name - itwa.net. Library of Tibetan Works Archives Do you subscribe to the Dali Llama somehow? :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5484992e.30...@gmail.com
Re: Re: Iceweasel Latest update stealing bandwidth uselessly
Do you subscribe to the Dali Llama somehow? :) Ric Is that some kind of mystical Tibetan woolly creature? Maybe the origin of the yeti myth. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141207195135.GA11679@rimmer.localdomain
Re: Iceweasel Latest update stealing bandwidth uselessly
On 2014-12-07, Clive Standbridge list-u...@tgstandbridges.plus.com wrote: Do you subscribe to the Dali Llama somehow? :) Ric Is that some kind of mystical Tibetan woolly creature? Maybe the origin of the yeti myth. I think the Dali Llama is a Spanish surrealistic painting of a South American ruminant, noted for fleecing the tin foil crowd. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/slrnm89fb3.22b.cu...@einstein.electron.org
Re: Iceweasel Latest update stealing bandwidth uselessly
On 12/07/2014 02:51 PM, Clive Standbridge wrote: Do you subscribe to the Dali Llama somehow? :) Ric Is that some kind of mystical Tibetan woolly creature? Maybe the origin of the yeti myth. Are you saying that a yeti is stealing bandwidth?? OMG. But, from what I could google, the bandwidth stealer is from Tibet?? I have to wonder just who would profit from that bit of re-direction. Like the OP, I am on HughesNet with savage restrictions on bandwidth usage and I would sure be concerned over what or who is stealing it. If anyone has a clue, I'd be interested in hearing it. I suppose the OP could run Iceweasel in secure mode (no addons) and slowly add the addons back, one at a time, to see if he can spot an offender ~IF~ there isn't something else installed like Seti that could easily account for the unattended usage. Beats me, Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5484be36.3010...@gmail.com
Re: Iceweasel Latest update stealing bandwidth uselessly
Ric write: Do you subscribe to the Dali Llama somehow? Clive writes: Is that some kind of mystical Tibetan woolly creature? Half Tibetan, half Peruvian. It looks sort of half-melted. -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87vbln9nwf@thumper.dhh.gt.org
Re: Re: Iceweasel Latest update stealing bandwidth uselessly
I think the Dali Llama is a Spanish surrealistic painting of a South American ruminant, noted for fleecing the tin foil crowd. You win! -- Cheers, Clive -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141207215907.GA18565@rimmer.localdomain
Re: Re: Iceweasel Latest update stealing bandwidth uselessly
Greetings, [i turns l IL] ltwa.net has ntg 2do with this. Google is 'helping typo' itwa.net search process and somehow replacing what you type. itwa.net seems blank, but has links to from an aussie forum site. Further work can be done about mate's 7 %. Wireshark may help. I hope it helps noise suppression. Whose baby is iceweasel now, really? I am still reporting like-dislike mozilla help submit feedback, blindly.. Sometimes things are best what we've got, iceweasel debian, google, until we get gnu'ed, and that has its troubles getting there. Regards, hec On Sun, Dec 7, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Clive Standbridge list-u...@tgstandbridges.plus.com wrote: I think the Dali Llama is a Spanish surrealistic painting of a South American ruminant, noted for fleecing the tin foil crowd. You win! -- Cheers, Clive -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141207215907.GA18565@rimmer.localdomain
