[OT] Wheezy release goals (was Re: Is there anything wrong with sticking with Lenny?)
On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 04:04:19PM -0600, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: [OT] Have the Wheezy release goals been published? I hope that multi-arch APT and wide (%80 of main) package support is one of them. http://release.debian.org/wheezy/goals.txt -- Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet. -- Napoleon Bonaparte -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110226035756.GE18913@fischer
Re: Is there anything wrong with sticking with Lenny?
http://www.ipcop.org/ http://www.smoothwall.org/ The two are very similar and have the same roots. SmoothWall offers a commercial version with official paid support. IPCop does not. Commercial paid support for IPCop comes strictly from 3rd parties. In your case I'm guessing you don't want paid support, so either should be just fine for you. Both will be better as dedicated firewalls than building a f/w from scratch with Debian. -- Stan Both are extremly good firewalls. I built a firewall system from scratch using Gentoo. The learning experiance is good building a firewall system, and dont discount Debian from the job. A non X install, and some command line knowledge, and you will enjoy the fact you created it, and not locked in.
Re: Is there anything wrong with sticking with Lenny?
On 23.2.2011 3:35, Jason Hsu wrote: If that doesn't work, I'll do a fresh installation of Lenny on the old computer, upgrade it to Squeeze, and then set it up as a firewall/server. I hope you have Lenny full CD disk images available. Net Install does not work any more. I just reinstalled a Lenny, after failed upgrade to Squeeze. It was pain, until I finally found a CD1.iso for Lenny. Even with that, you have to use expert install or whatever it is, the default simple route tries to find software from security.debian.org (even when no mirrors are selected) and fails. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Is there anything wrong with sticking with Lenny?
On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 19:35:19 -0600, Jason Hsu wrote: (...) Is there anything wrong with sticking with Debian Lenny? I hope not. I'm also with lenny and won't upgrade until wheezy :-) Does Debian shut down support for old versions like Ubuntu does? Lenny will drop security patches when wheezy comes out (effective Debian support for releases is about 2 years). Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2011.02.23.17.01...@gmail.com
Re: Is there anything wrong with sticking with Lenny?
On Mi, 23 feb 11, 17:01:41, Camaleón wrote: Lenny will drop security patches when wheezy comes out or one year after the release of squeeze, whichever comes first[1] (effective Debian support for releases is about 2 years). By your numbers it's about 4 years (2 years as stable and 2 years as oldstable), but in fact it's only about 3 years (aprox. 2 years as stable and 1 year as oldstable). [1] http://www.debian.org/security/faq#lifespan Regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Is there anything wrong with sticking with Lenny?
On Wednesday 23 February 2011 12:53:39 Andrei Popescu wrote: On Mi, 23 feb 11, 17:01:41, Camaleón wrote: (effective Debian support for releases is about 2 years). By your numbers it's about 4 years (2 years as stable and 2 years as oldstable), but in fact it's only about 3 years (aprox. 2 years as stable and 1 year as oldstable). If you need longer support, and Ubuntu LTS is derived from Debian packaging and supported for 5 years on servers. SLED/SLES and RHEL might provide that length of support as well, but they are not derived from Debian packages. However, any of these solutions will be rather limiting as far as which packages get support. Debian supports all of main at the same level. Debian usually supports contrib at the same level, but the Depends/Recommends on non- free make things difficult at times. Of course, much of non-free is largely unsupportable, due to the inability to view / modify the source code. The Ubuntu support is only main/restricted not universe/multiverse. SLES/SLED have a fairly complex support matrix, but intentionally don't include less popular or non-core packages; this leaves users to get many packages from semi-official or completely unofficial projects on the OBS. I've not looked too hard into the support profile for RHEL, but I imagine it as similar to SLES/SLED. Debian is the best, most free distribution out there, in part because of the excellent support provided by DDs. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Is there anything wrong with sticking with Lenny?
On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 20:53:39 +0200, Andrei Popescu wrote: On Mi, 23 feb 11, 17:01:41, Camaleón wrote: Lenny will drop security patches when wheezy comes out or one year after the release of squeeze, whichever comes first[1] Sure. I hope Wheezy is not released tomorrow :-) (effective Debian support for releases is about 2 years). By your numbers it's about 4 years (2 years as stable and 2 years as oldstable), but in fact it's only about 3 years (aprox. 2 years as stable and 1 year as oldstable). Nope, I expect a minimum of 2 years of full security patches support (the longer, the better), more or less because Debian has not a fixed release cycle like other distributions. [1] http://www.debian.org/security/faq#lifespan Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2011.02.23.19.56...@gmail.com
Re: Is there anything wrong with sticking with Lenny?
On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 13:33:45 -0600, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: On Wednesday 23 February 2011 12:53:39 Andrei Popescu wrote: On Mi, 23 feb 11, 17:01:41, Camaleón wrote: (effective Debian support for releases is about 2 years). By your numbers it's about 4 years (2 years as stable and 2 years as oldstable), but in fact it's only about 3 years (aprox. 2 years as stable and 1 year as oldstable). If you need longer support, and Ubuntu LTS is derived from Debian packaging and supported for 5 years on servers. I don't see my self with Ubuntu/Canonical. SLED/SLES and RHEL might provide that length of support as well, but they are not derived from Debian packages. Novell (SLES/SLED owner) is now almost dead (as company, not their linux distribution) because of the buyout by Attachmate which should be finishes in a few weeks. And openSUSE (which I left a year ago) has a short-term release cycle and support (18 months). There is a new effort in making a long-term supported openSUSE distribution by means of the Evergreen project. RedHat (or CentOS) sounds interesting, but I prefer to keep Debian. (...) Debian is the best, most free distribution out there, in part because of the excellent support provided by DDs. Yes, it can sound a bit strange but having no company behind the distribution seems to me like a big plus :-) Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2011.02.23.20.05...@gmail.com
Re: Is there anything wrong with sticking with Lenny?
On Wednesday 23 February 2011 13:56:54 Camaleón wrote: On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 20:53:39 +0200, Andrei Popescu wrote: By your numbers it's about 4 years (2 years as stable and 2 years as oldstable), but in fact it's only about 3 years (aprox. 2 years as stable and 1 year as oldstable). Nope, I expect a minimum of 2 years of full security patches support (the longer, the better), more or less because Debian has not a fixed release cycle like other distributions. Note that Debian doesn't guarantee 2 years. It would take some remarkably quick releases (harkening back to the buzz-rex-bo releases) to give some release less than 2 years, but I suppose it could happen. (The repositories are /only/ 300 times the size of the bo repository.) [OT] Have the Wheezy release goals been published? I hope that multi-arch APT and wide (%80 of main) package support is one of them. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Is there anything wrong with sticking with Lenny?
Thanks for the help on upgrading from Lenny to Squeeze. It's hard to understand everything in the release notes, so it will take me some time to make the transition. Is there anything wrong with sticking with Debian Lenny? Does Debian shut down support for old versions like Ubuntu does? As I mentioned before, Debian Squeeze does not work on my old computer (1.0 GHz processor, 256 MB of RAM) even though Debian Lenny and antiX Linux M8.5 (based on Debian Squeeze) have no problems working on the same computer. It's a shame given that old computers normally work well as servers and firewalls. Learning to set up a firewall and server AND learning to properly upgrade Debian is too much for me to undertake at once. So what I'm going to do is set up my old computer as a firewall and server in Debian Lenny. I'll set up Lenny in VirtualBox on my newer computer (which is 5 years newer and has much higher specs) and upgrade Lenny to Squeeze. Once I've mastered both of these tasks (firewall/server on the old computer and Lenny to Squeeze upgrade in VirtualBox), I'll upgrade from Lenny to Squeeze on the old computer. If that doesn't work, I'll do a fresh installation of Lenny on the old computer, upgrade it to Squeeze, and then set it up as a firewall/server. -- Jason Hsu jhsu802...@jasonhsu.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110222193519.538b384f.jhsu802...@jasonhsu.com
Re: Is there anything wrong with sticking with Lenny?
Jason Hsu writes: Is there anything wrong with sticking with Debian Lenny? No. Does Debian shut down support for old versions like Ubuntu does? Support will continue for a couple of years. Look into backports. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87ei6zjyfy@thumper.dhh.gt.org
Re: Is there anything wrong with sticking with Lenny?
In 20110222193519.538b384f.jhsu802...@jasonhsu.com, Jason Hsu wrote: Is there anything wrong with sticking with Debian Lenny? Yes and no. The longer you wait after the Squeeze release the less of the community will have Lenny and be able to easily answer your questions. Does Debian shut down support for old versions like Ubuntu does? Eventually, yes. Right now is has approximately the same support it has as stable. Lenny will receive security bug fixes and a few high priority bug fixes until support completely ends. That support ends either at the time Wheezy is released or 2012-02-06 (1 year after the Squeeze release) whichever comes first. There's still plenty of time to work on the transition, but you should be working toward that goal. Even after support ends, archive.d.o will contain the last state of the Lenny repositories. snapshot.d.o also keeps dated versions of basically everything that appears on ftp.us.d.o. As I mentioned before, Debian Squeeze does not work on my old computer (1.0 GHz processor, 256 MB of RAM) even though Debian Lenny and antiX Linux M8.5 (based on Debian Squeeze) have no problems working on the same computer. It's a shame given that old computers normally work well as servers and firewalls. I have Squeeze running fine on a VPS with less-capable specifications. So, it should work. You may have to choose a desktop environment that is less featureful or otherwise target a low-memory systems, (e.g. KDE 4 is unlikely to perform well with less of a Gig of memory) but there shouldn't be any lack of hardware support. It is rather rare for Free Software to remove working code, but it can happen if no one will update the code for new dependencies. (E.g. dropping Gtk-1.x libraries did and dropping KDE-3 libraries may entail dropping programs that no one will pay enough attention to in order to use newer libraries.) I'm certainly survived for days or weeks without X11 even installed. Mutt, W3M, screen, and a plethora of curses or plain text applications are actually quite capable and generally use *far* fewer system resources. Learning to set up a firewall and server AND learning to properly upgrade Debian is too much for me to undertake at once. So what I'm going to do is set up my old computer as a firewall and server in Debian Lenny. I'll set up Lenny in VirtualBox on my newer computer (which is 5 years newer and has much higher specs) and upgrade Lenny to Squeeze. Once I've mastered both of these tasks (firewall/server on the old computer and Lenny to Squeeze upgrade in VirtualBox), I'll upgrade from Lenny to Squeeze on the old computer. Well, it sounds like you have a migration plan, so I wouldn't worry too much about keeping Lenny around for a bit longer. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Is there anything wrong with sticking with Lenny?
Jason Hsu put forth on 2/22/2011 7:35 PM: Thanks for the help on upgrading from Lenny to Squeeze. It's hard to understand everything in the release notes, so it will take me some time to make the transition. Is there anything wrong with sticking with Debian Lenny? Does Debian shut down support for old versions like Ubuntu does? As I mentioned before, Debian Squeeze does not work on my old computer (1.0 GHz processor, 256 MB of RAM) even though Debian Lenny and antiX Linux M8.5 (based on Debian Squeeze) have no problems working on the same computer. It's a shame given that old computers normally work well as servers and firewalls. Learning to set up a firewall and server AND learning to properly upgrade Debian is too much for me to undertake at once. So what I'm going to do is set up my old computer as a firewall and server in Debian Lenny. I'll set up Lenny in VirtualBox on my newer computer (which is 5 years newer and has much higher specs) and upgrade Lenny to Squeeze. Once I've mastered both of these tasks (firewall/server on the old computer and Lenny to Squeeze upgrade in VirtualBox), I'll upgrade from Lenny to Squeeze on the old computer. If that doesn't work, I'll do a fresh installation of Lenny on the old computer, upgrade it to Squeeze, and then set it up as a firewall/server. Forget the server part and just make it a firewall. You'll probably need two NICs, one for public and one for private. Use IPCop or SmoothWall instead of Debian. They're both purpose built Linux firewall distros and very easy to setup and use. Both have a web administration GUI for configuring all aspects of the firewall, viewing graphs of traffic trends and all other kinds of neat stuff. http://www.ipcop.org/ http://www.smoothwall.org/ The two are very similar and have the same roots. SmoothWall offers a commercial version with official paid support. IPCop does not. Commercial paid support for IPCop comes strictly from 3rd parties. In your case I'm guessing you don't want paid support, so either should be just fine for you. Both will be better as dedicated firewalls than building a f/w from scratch with Debian. -- Stan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4d6492e9.5000...@hardwarefreak.com
