Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed
On 9/04/22 00:17, gene heskett wrote: IMO its up to the pdf interpretor to make the pdf its handed fit the printer. Period, IMO it is not open for discussion. "Make it fit" might include scaling. You don't necessarily want that happening automatically - what if you're printing something like a circuit board design (not likely from LO, I admit), to be transferred directly onto the pcb? Cheers, Richard
Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed
On 2022-04-11, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > On Sunday, April 10, 2022 11:20:39 AM Curt wrote: >> Les provinciales (1656), XVI de Blaise Pascal >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lettres_provinciales >> >> "I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time." >> (Letter XVI) > > Cicero died around 43 B.C. (Beheaded, iirc.) > > I'm sorry to hear that, but he's probably gotten over it by now.
Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed
On Sunday, April 10, 2022 11:20:39 AM Curt wrote: > Les provinciales (1656), XVI de Blaise Pascal > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lettres_provinciales > > "I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time." > (Letter XVI) Cicero died around 43 B.C. (Beheaded, iirc.)
Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed
On 2022-04-10, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > On Friday, April 08, 2022 08:17:14 AM gene heskett wrote: >> I think Ben Franklin said it first, First, we get rid of all the lawyers. > > Billy (Shakespeare) said it before Ben. But I would not be surprised to find > that someone said it much earlier than that. > > I once looked into the origin of ~"I wrote you a long letter because I didn't > have time to write a short letter" -- I found sources that attributed it to > Cicero, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out it was talked about around > the > cavemen's (and women's) campfires. > > Je n'ai fait celle-ci plus longue que parce que je n'ai pas eu le loisir de la faire plus courte. Les provinciales (1656), XVI de Blaise Pascal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lettres_provinciales "I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time." (Letter XVI)
Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed
On Friday, April 08, 2022 08:17:14 AM gene heskett wrote: > I think Ben Franklin said it first, First, we get rid of all the lawyers. Billy (Shakespeare) said it before Ben. But I would not be surprised to find that someone said it much earlier than that. I once looked into the origin of ~"I wrote you a long letter because I didn't have time to write a short letter" -- I found sources that attributed it to Cicero, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out it was talked about around the cavemen's (and women's) campfires.
Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed
On Fri, 8 Apr 2022 12:19:10 -0400 Cindy Sue Causey wrote: > Just poking my nose in to say that syslog might be an example of that. > That's speaking from the annoying firsthand experience of having > something like /var/log/syslog loaded in the Mousepad text editor. It > will keep announcing that the content changed behind the scenes so do > I want to refresh to view that newest addition (or some similar > advisement). Well, try using emacs for watching syslog. It will simply load it and be silent about external changes until you try to save edits. Or you can invoke auto-revert-mode, and it will load changes for you, and follow the bottom of the file if you like. Or use "tail -f". -- Does anybody read signatures any more? https://charlescurley.com https://charlescurley.com/blog/
Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed
On Fri 08 Apr 2022 at 08:17:14 (-0400), gene heskett wrote: > On Friday, 8 April 2022 07:32:00 EDT Curt wrote: > > On 2022-04-08, David Wright wrote: > > >> Apple: Pages documents include a "last printed" property which gets > > >> updated when the doc is printed - which suggests there's no option > > >> in that case. > > >> > > >> Not sure of the accuracy of either report... > > > > > > … nor of my memory. > > > > > > I was never a wysiwy(d)g person, but I do remember when many people > > > started using Macs back in the '80s. When they selected a printer, > > > typically adjustments were made to the document to suit the settings > > > in the printer, and then they'd save the document, which AIUI > > > retained > > > those settings. To them, that seemed a normal part of the document > > > metaphor. > > > > That's exactly the reason, it seems. > > > > Why does my document get marked as modified when I print it? > > > > This is because certain information regarding the printer is saved in > > the document data. > > > > https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/FAQ/Writer/Printing/Why_ > > does_my_document_get_marked_as_modified_when_I_print_it > > I can see a potential legal reason to store the last printed date in the > file, if its a copyrighted work, but I can't see printer data as anything > but a lockin attempt for the printer makers. IMO its up to the pdf > interpretor to make the pdf its handed fit the printer. Period, IMO it is > not open for discussion. > > There is no reason other than avarice to modify the file. The file > systems last access date/time maybe, which should not impinge on the file > itself. Thats file system data. Bear in mind that the aforementioned Mac users would not have been handling PostScript¹ files themselves, but what we would call .DOC files, and these are what retained the printer settings. (I don't think they would talk of file extensions either.) Having no experience myself, I can't answer whether dragging and dropping a document icon onto a printer icon would behave differently from opening the document (merely to confirm it's the right one) and selecting Print from a menu. But I can imagine a situation where in the latter case, it might read printer parameters and set them in the opened document without regard for whether they were indentical with those already present. > I think Ben Franklin said it first, First, we get rid of all the lawyers. I can't speak to any legal value of a "last printed date". I don't even know whether that date is distinct entity in LO, differing from the file's Modification Timestamp. (I only use LO to read .DOCs, and convert them to PDFs if I want to be able to reread them.) ¹ I don't remember when I moved from a PS to a PDF workflow: I archive source files, not their derivatives, because their value lies in the content, not its presentation. But it long-predated my use of personal inkjet printers (ie grippers), and also my having to print A4 PDFs on US paper. I wouldn't know which tool to use to shrink a PS page. Cheers, David.
Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed
On Fri, Apr 08, 2022 at 12:19:10PM -0400, Cindy Sue Causey wrote: [...] > Just poking my nose in to say that syslog might be an example of that. > That's speaking from the annoying firsthand experience of having > something like /var/log/syslog loaded in the Mousepad text editor. It > will keep announcing that the content changed behind the scenes so do > I want to refresh to view that newest addition (or some similar > advisement). I think this is the other way around: it's your system changing the file behind your editor's back (syslog keeps growing all the time, after all). The original poster's case was your editor changing the file behind your back (which I'd consider more unsettling, mind you). > Cindy :) Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed
On 2022-04-08, Cindy Sue Causey wrote: >> >> LO: MS Word does it, so LO does it / because fields in the document may be >> automatically updated prior to printing > > Just poking my nose in to say that syslog might be an example of that. > That's speaking from the annoying firsthand experience of having > something like /var/log/syslog loaded in the Mousepad text editor. It > will keep announcing that the content changed behind the scenes so do > I want to refresh to view that newest addition (or some similar > advisement). > > Cindy :) This mystery has been resolved, yet remains a mystery.
Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed
On 4/7/22, Gareth Evans wrote: > On Thu 7 Apr 2022, at 09:58, Jonathan Dowland > wrote: >> On Sat, Apr 02, 2022 at 07:08:11PM +0100, Brad Rogers wrote: >>>Tools menu/Options - General; 'Printing sets "document modified" status' >> > >> Does anyone have any insight into why this is an option? More >> specifically, what reason would anyone want to have their document >> marked as modified because they printed it? > > I wondered about that too and looked into it. I now can't find the > references I found, either in my browser history or by re-searching, but > iirc, Apple[-related] and LibreOffice forum posts suggested it's to do > with: > > LO: MS Word does it, so LO does it / because fields in the document may be > automatically updated prior to printing Just poking my nose in to say that syslog might be an example of that. That's speaking from the annoying firsthand experience of having something like /var/log/syslog loaded in the Mousepad text editor. It will keep announcing that the content changed behind the scenes so do I want to refresh to view that newest addition (or some similar advisement). Cindy :) -- Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA * runs with birdseed *
Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed
On Friday, 8 April 2022 07:32:00 EDT Curt wrote: > On 2022-04-08, David Wright wrote: > >> Apple: Pages documents include a "last printed" property which gets > >> updated when the doc is printed - which suggests there's no option > >> in that case. > >> > >> Not sure of the accuracy of either report... > > > > … nor of my memory. > > > > I was never a wysiwy(d)g person, but I do remember when many people > > started using Macs back in the '80s. When they selected a printer, > > typically adjustments were made to the document to suit the settings > > in the printer, and then they'd save the document, which AIUI > > retained > > those settings. To them, that seemed a normal part of the document > > metaphor. > > That's exactly the reason, it seems. > > Why does my document get marked as modified when I print it? > > This is because certain information regarding the printer is saved in > the document data. > > https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/FAQ/Writer/Printing/Why_ > does_my_document_get_marked_as_modified_when_I_print_it I can see a potential legal reason to store the last printed date in the file, if its a copyrighted work, but I can't see printer data as anything but a lockin attempt for the printer makers. IMO its up to the pdf interpretor to make the pdf its handed fit the printer. Period, IMO it is not open for discussion. There is no reason other than avarice to modify the file. The file systems last access date/time maybe, which should not impinge on the file itself. Thats file system data. I think Ben Franklin said it first, First, we get rid of all the lawyers. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed
On 2022-04-08, David Wright wrote: >> >> Apple: Pages documents include a "last printed" property which gets updated >> when the doc is printed - which suggests there's no option in that case. >> >> Not sure of the accuracy of either report... > > … nor of my memory. > > I was never a wysiwy(d)g person, but I do remember when many people > started using Macs back in the '80s. When they selected a printer, > typically adjustments were made to the document to suit the settings > in the printer, and then they'd save the document, which AIUI retained > those settings. To them, that seemed a normal part of the document > metaphor. > That's exactly the reason, it seems. Why does my document get marked as modified when I print it? This is because certain information regarding the printer is saved in the document data. https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/FAQ/Writer/Printing/Why_does_my_document_get_marked_as_modified_when_I_print_it
Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed
On Thu 07 Apr 2022 at 10:45:46 (+0100), Gareth Evans wrote: > On Thu 7 Apr 2022, at 09:58, Jonathan Dowland wrote: > > On Sat, Apr 02, 2022 at 07:08:11PM +0100, Brad Rogers wrote: > >>Tools menu/Options - General; 'Printing sets "document modified" status' > > > > > Does anyone have any insight into why this is an option? More > > specifically, what reason would anyone want to have their document > > marked as modified because they printed it? > > I wondered about that too and looked into it. I now can't find the > references I found, either in my browser history or by re-searching, but > iirc, Apple[-related] and LibreOffice forum posts suggested it's to do with: > > LO: MS Word does it, so LO does it / because fields in the document may be > automatically updated prior to printing > > Apple: Pages documents include a "last printed" property which gets updated > when the doc is printed - which suggests there's no option in that case. > > Not sure of the accuracy of either report... … nor of my memory. I was never a wysiwy(d)g person, but I do remember when many people started using Macs back in the '80s. When they selected a printer, typically adjustments were made to the document to suit the settings in the printer, and then they'd save the document, which AIUI retained those settings. To them, that seemed a normal part of the document metaphor. Sometimes, of course, those tiny adjustments would cause major changes in layout (like when the next figure doesn't _quite_ fit on the bottom of a page), which caused a great deal of frustration. OTOH when I printed my PDFs on, say, a printer whose paper gripper created an oversize margin, I'd imperceptibly shrink the documents to fit, but the original LaTeX source files would obviously be unaffected, as would the layout. Of course, I'd have to make my own note of any changes if I wanted to repeat them in future. Cheers, David.
Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed
On Thu 7 Apr 2022, at 09:58, Jonathan Dowland wrote: > On Sat, Apr 02, 2022 at 07:08:11PM +0100, Brad Rogers wrote: >>Tools menu/Options - General; 'Printing sets "document modified" status' > > Does anyone have any insight into why this is an option? More > specifically, what reason would anyone want to have their document > marked as modified because they printed it? I wondered about that too and looked into it. I now can't find the references I found, either in my browser history or by re-searching, but iirc, Apple[-related] and LibreOffice forum posts suggested it's to do with: LO: MS Word does it, so LO does it / because fields in the document may be automatically updated prior to printing Apple: Pages documents include a "last printed" property which gets updated when the doc is printed - which suggests there's no option in that case. Not sure of the accuracy of either report... Best wishes, Gareth > > -- > Please do not CC me for listmail. > > Jonathan Dowland > ✎ j...@debian.org > https://jmtd.net
Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed
On Thu, 7 Apr 2022 09:58:28 +0100 Jonathan Dowland wrote: Hello Jonathan, >marked as modified because they printed it? Not really. Other than; "MS-Word offers the same option." -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent" / _)rad "Is it only me that has a working delete key?" We're going to hell anyway, let's travel first class Saturday Night - Kaiser Chiefs pgpQy711EYsCv.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed
On Sat, Apr 02, 2022 at 07:08:11PM +0100, Brad Rogers wrote: Tools menu/Options - General; 'Printing sets "document modified" status' Does anyone have any insight into why this is an option? More specifically, what reason would anyone want to have their document marked as modified because they printed it? -- Please do not CC me for listmail. Jonathan Dowland ✎j...@debian.org https://jmtd.net
Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed
On Sun, 3 Apr 2022 19:33:16 -0700 Bob McGowan wrote: > > Thanks. Unfortunately, that did not seem to work. I tried checking > > it; that also modified on printing. Libreoffice appears to be > > ignoring that flag. > > I just confirmed that the version of LibreOffice I'm running matches > what you have. > > And as Brad Rogers said, "Works here." > > You may need to go to LibreOffice help directly with this. The old workaround for LibreOffice worked. I renamed the configuration directory, ~/.config/libreoffice, and started LibreOffice up again. It generated a new configuration directory. That worked. It's a nuisance, since I then have to reconfigure my LibreOffice instance. Thanks again. -- Does anybody read signatures any more? https://charlescurley.com https://charlescurley.com/blog/
Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed
On 4/2/22 14:10, Charles Curley wrote: On Sat, 2 Apr 2022 10:58:49 -0700 Bob McGowan wrote: Start LibreOffice, open the 'Tools' menu and click on 'Options'. Under the 'LibreOffice' heading select 'General' and in about the middle of the new set of options you will see 'Document Status'. Be sure it is not checked. Thanks. Unfortunately, that did not seem to work. I tried checking it; that also modified on printing. Libreoffice appears to be ignoring that flag. I just confirmed that the version of LibreOffice I'm running matches what you have. And as Brad Rogers said, "Works here." You may need to go to LibreOffice help directly with this. Bob
Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed
On Sat, 2 Apr 2022 15:10:46 -0600 Charles Curley wrote: Hello Charles, >Thanks. Unfortunately, that did not seem to work. I tried checking it; >that also modified on printing. Libreoffice appears to be ignoring that >flag. Works here. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent" / _)rad "Is it only me that has a working delete key?" I am alone there's nobody there I Look Alone - Buzzcocks pgp9imD7TFjpZ.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed
On Sat, 2 Apr 2022 10:58:49 -0700 Bob McGowan wrote: > Start LibreOffice, open the 'Tools' menu and click on 'Options'. > Under the 'LibreOffice' heading select 'General' and in about the > middle of the new set of options you will see 'Document Status'. > > Be sure it is not checked. Thanks. Unfortunately, that did not seem to work. I tried checking it; that also modified on printing. Libreoffice appears to be ignoring that flag. -- Does anybody read signatures any more? https://charlescurley.com https://charlescurley.com/blog/
Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed
On Sat, 2 Apr 2022 11:22:25 -0600 Charles Curley wrote: Hello Charles, >gets marked as "dirty", i.e. it has changes, and should be saved. How >do I turn off marking the file as dirty? I think what you want is; Tools menu/Options - General; 'Printing sets "document modified" status' -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent" / _)rad "Is it only me that has a working delete key?" Words as weapons, sharper than knives Devil Inside - INXS pgpiZvFuhl30c.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed
My search-fu has failed me. When I print a text document from Libreoffice, the file being printed gets marked as "dirty", i.e. it has changes, and should be saved. How do I turn off marking the file as dirty? libreoffice-core 1:7.0.4-4+deb11u1, amd64 -- Does anybody read signatures any more? https://charlescurley.com https://charlescurley.com/blog/
