subject:"Mail client, threads, etc..."

On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 12:27 +, Tony van der Hoff 
 It is alleged, that a certain German Fuerer added a smiley to the order
 to exterminate the Jews, to indicate it was a joke. It was misunderstood.

I made a joke with the contend

Men tend to make mistakes, when they are in love with a women

this might or might not implement that women are the cause for big
mistakes or it simply does mean some man are stupid.

This might be or might not be a good or bad joke.

The serious order to kill humans for you is the same as my joke?

You need serious help!


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Re: Outrageous Xenophobia. Was: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

2012-11-26 Thread Zenaan Harkness

On 11/27/12, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@rocketmail.com wrote:
 On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 12:27 +, Tony van der Hoff
 It is alleged, that a certain German Fuerer added a smiley to the order
 to exterminate the Jews, to indicate it was a joke. It was misunderstood.

 I made a joke with the contend

 Men tend to make mistakes, when they are in love with a women

 this might or might not implement that women are the cause for big
 mistakes or it simply does mean some man are stupid.

 This might be or might not be a good or bad joke.

 The serious order to kill humans for you is the same as my joke?

 You need serious help!

Perhaps the circumcentre of his world, is not coincident yours..


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Re: Outrageous Xenophobia. Was: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

2012-11-26 Thread berenger . morel




Le 26.11.2012 14:34, Zenaan Harkness a écrit :

On 11/27/12, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@rocketmail.com wrote:

On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 12:27 +, Tony van der Hoff
It is alleged, that a certain German Fuerer added a smiley to the 
order
to exterminate the Jews, to indicate it was a joke. It was 
misunderstood.


I made a joke with the contend

Men tend to make mistakes, when they are in love with a women

this might or might not implement that women are the cause for big
mistakes or it simply does mean some man are stupid.

This might be or might not be a good or bad joke.

The serious order to kill humans for you is the same as my joke?

You need serious help!


I guess this is the time of

                    
 /  __) () () () () () (__  \
 |_|  |_|
  _  __   __
 | |/ |   _ __   ___ (_)_ __ | |_ | |
 | || |  | '_ \ / _ \| | '_ \| __|| |
 |_|| |  | |_) | (_) | | | | | |_ |_|
  _ |_|  | .__/ \___/|_|_| |_|\__| _
 | | |_|  | |
 | |  | |
 |_|    _  _  |_|
  _ / ___| ___   __| |_  _(_)_ __  _
 | |   | |  _ / _ \ / _` \ \ /\ / / | '_ \| |
 | |   | |_| | (_) | (_| |\ V  V /| | | | |   | |
 |_|\|\___/ \__,_| \_/\_/ |_|_| |_|   |_|
  __
 | |__                  __| |
 \) () () () () () (/

I did not thought that it was possible to reach it starting with a 
discussion on mail clients (and through a debate on jokes, debate which, 
of course, contains some examples).




Perhaps the circumcentre of his world, is not coincident yours..


Hopefully.


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What is this list for? was - Re: Outrageous Xenophobia. Was: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

It's not marked as [off-list], but by accident send off-list.

I've got enough from this list.

 Forwarded Message 
From: Tony van der Hoff t...@vanderhoff.org
To: Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@rocketmail.com
Subject: Re: Outrageous Xenophobia. Was: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re:
Mail client, threads, etc...
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 13:24:41 +

On 26/11/12 13:00, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 12:27 +, Tony van der Hoff 
 It is alleged, that a certain German Fuerer added a smiley to the order
 to exterminate the Jews, to indicate it was a joke. It was misunderstood.

 I made a joke with the contend

 Men tend to make mistakes, when they are in love with a women

 this might or might not implement that women are the cause for big
 mistakes or it simply does mean some man are stupid.

 This might be or might not be a good or bad joke.

 The serious order to kill humans for you is the same as my joke?

 You need serious help!

Arrogant Bastard! plonk

-- 
Tony van der Hoff| mailto:t...@vanderhoff.org
Buckinghamshire, England |

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Re: Outrageous Xenophobia. Was: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

On Tue, 2012-11-27 at 00:34 +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
 On 11/27/12, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@rocketmail.com wrote:
  On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 12:27 +, Tony van der Hoff
  It is alleged, that a certain German Fuerer added a smiley to the order
  to exterminate the Jews, to indicate it was a joke. It was misunderstood.
 
  I made a joke with the contend
 
  Men tend to make mistakes, when they are in love with a women
 
  this might or might not implement that women are the cause for big
  mistakes or it simply does mean some man are stupid.
 
  This might be or might not be a good or bad joke.
 
  The serious order to kill humans for you is the same as my joke?
 
  You need serious help!
 
 Perhaps the circumcentre of his world, is not coincident yours..

This isn't a joke, since I'm from Germany and a lot of people really
were killed by Nazis. Fortunately I was born in 1966 and only my parents
and grandparents and the parents of my grandparents lived at that time.
As for many German families there were victims of the Nazis and
followers in my family, so I know this history not only from books and
films, but from people who experienced this time.

It's ok to make jokes about this time, but equate banality with serious
orders to kill people is dangerous.

I agree that sometimes comparing the Nazis with what happens today is
ok, Godwin's law is stupid, we need to to compare from time to time, but
in this case it's completely sick.



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Re: Outrageous Xenophobia. Was: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

2012-11-26 Thread darkestkhan

On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 2:53 PM, Ralf Mardorf
ralf.mard...@rocketmail.com wrote:
On Tue, 2012-11-27 at 00:34 +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
On 11/27/12, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@rocketmail.com wrote:
On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 12:27 +, Tony van der Hoff
It is alleged, that a certain German Fuerer added a smiley to the order
to exterminate the Jews, to indicate it was a joke. It was misunderstood.

I made a joke with the contend

Men tend to make mistakes, when they are in love with a women

this might or might not implement that women are the cause for big
mistakes or it simply does mean some man are stupid.

This might be or might not be a good or bad joke.

The serious order to kill humans for you is the same as my joke?

You need serious help!

Perhaps the circumcentre of his world, is not coincident yours..

This isn't a joke, since I'm from Germany and a lot of people really
were killed by Nazis. Fortunately I was born in 1966 and only my parents
and grandparents and the parents of my grandparents lived at that time.
As for many German families there were victims of the Nazis and
followers in my family, so I know this history not only from books and
films, but from people who experienced this time.

It's ok to make jokes about this time, but equate banality with serious
orders to kill people is dangerous.

I'm from Poland and I will tell you that we make this kind of jokes
quite a lot so I didn't
find it offensive at all (in fact I thought it was quite funny) - as
bad as past events were
it is just that - past - you can't ever forget it (or the same thing
will happen again) but
we can't brood over it. [we don't have any kind of taboo when it comes
to jokes].

--
darkestkhan
--
Feel free to CC me.
jid: darkestk...@gmail.com
May The Source be with You.

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Re: Outrageous Xenophobia. Was: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 14:44 +0100, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
 
 Le 26.11.2012 14:34, Zenaan Harkness a écrit :
  On 11/27/12, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@rocketmail.com wrote:
  On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 12:27 +, Tony van der Hoff
  It is alleged, that a certain German Fuerer added a smiley to the 
  order
  to exterminate the Jews, to indicate it was a joke. It was 
  misunderstood.
 
  I made a joke with the contend
 
  Men tend to make mistakes, when they are in love with a women
 
  this might or might not implement that women are the cause for big
  mistakes or it simply does mean some man are stupid.
 
  This might be or might not be a good or bad joke.
 
  The serious order to kill humans for you is the same as my joke?
 
  You need serious help!
 
 I guess this is the time of
 
                  
   /  __) () () () () () (__  \
   |_|  |_|
_  __   __
   | |/ |   _ __   ___ (_)_ __ | |_ | |
   | || |  | '_ \ / _ \| | '_ \| __|| |
   |_|| |  | |_) | (_) | | | | | |_ |_|
_ |_|  | .__/ \___/|_|_| |_|\__| _
   | | |_|  | |
   | |  | |
   |_|    _  _  |_|
_ / ___| ___   __| |_  _(_)_ __  _
   | |   | |  _ / _ \ / _` \ \ /\ / / | '_ \| |
   | |   | |_| | (_) | (_| |\ V  V /| | | | |   | |
   |_|\|\___/ \__,_| \_/\_/ |_|_| |_|   |_|
__
   | |__                  __| |
   \) () () () () () (/
 
 I did not thought that it was possible to reach it starting with a 
 discussion on mail clients (and through a debate on jokes, debate which, 
 of course, contains some examples).
 
 
  Perhaps the circumcentre of his world, is not coincident yours..
 
 Hopefully.

Godwin isn't the point. The cynical issue is, that it even wasn't a joke
about women, but men, so I apologized + others and me explained the
joke, but the insults won't stop. 

How should countries in the real world stop a war, if humans are unable
to excuse a misunderstanding that didn't physically hurt anybody?

And even if on a mailing list something really bad should happen. Isn't
there a time when it should stop? Should this become a thread that will
be continued in let's say thousand years ;).

IMO nothing can be bad with a joke about men, women, Germans, Jews etc.,
it becomes bad if people have got bad intentions. Tony has got a bad
intention or he's serious sick and not aware about the difference of the
order to kill people and what happened on this list.



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Re: Outrageous Xenophobia. Was: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

2012-11-26 Thread Brad Rogers

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 14:53:18 +0100
Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@rocketmail.com wrote:

Hello Ralf,

This isn't a joke, since I'm from Germany and a lot of people really
were killed by Nazis.

And there we have it;  You don't find this funny.  Many people didn't
find your comment about women funny.

You lose.  Get over it.  Move on.

-- 
 Regards  _
 / )   The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent
Bet you thought you had it all worked out
Problem - Sex Pistols


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Re: Outrageous Xenophobia. Was: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 15:31 +0100, darkestkhan wrote:
   It is alleged, that a certain German Fuerer added a smiley to the order
   to exterminate the Jews, to indicate it was a joke. It was 
   misunderstood.

On Thu, 2012-11-22 at 11:36 +, Tony van der Hoff wrote:
Your joke was not harmless. Stop playing the injured party.

On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 13:24 +, Tony van der Hoff 
Arrogant Bastard! plonk



darkestkhan wrote:
 I'm from Poland and I will tell you that we make this kind of jokes
 quite a lot so I didn't
  find it offensive at all (in fact I thought it was quite funny) - as
 bad as past events were
 it is just that  - past - you can't ever forget it (or the same thing
 will happen again) but
 we can't brood over it. [we don't have any kind of taboo when it comes
 to jokes].

This OT already was moved to the OT list.

Tony doesn't make jokes, his intention is to spoil peace.

So what I wrote was bad and what Tony wrote is a joke?

Grotesque!


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Re: Outrageous Xenophobia. Was: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 15:44 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:


 On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 15:31 +0100, darkestkhan wrote:

Tony wrote, not darkestkhan (not my mistake, the DE and MUA are broken),
pardon

It is alleged, that a certain German Fuerer added a smiley to the 
order
to exterminate the Jews, to indicate it was a joke. It was 
misunderstood.
 
 On Thu, 2012-11-22 at 11:36 +, Tony van der Hoff wrote:
 Your joke was not harmless. Stop playing the injured party.
 
 On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 13:24 +, Tony van der Hoff 
 Arrogant Bastard! plonk
 
 
 
 darkestkhan wrote:
  I'm from Poland and I will tell you that we make this kind of jokes
  quite a lot so I didn't
   find it offensive at all (in fact I thought it was quite funny) - as
  bad as past events were
  it is just that  - past - you can't ever forget it (or the same thing
  will happen again) but
  we can't brood over it. [we don't have any kind of taboo when it comes
  to jokes].
 
 This OT already was moved to the OT list.
 
 Tony doesn't make jokes, his intention is to spoil peace.
 
 So what I wrote was bad and what Tony wrote is a joke?
 
 Grotesque!



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Re: Outrageous Xenophobia. Was: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 14:45 +, Brad Rogers wrote:
 On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 14:53:18 +0100
 Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@rocketmail.com wrote:
 
 Hello Ralf,
 
 This isn't a joke, since I'm from Germany and a lot of people really
 were killed by Nazis.
 
 And there we have it;  You don't find this funny.  Many people didn't
 find your comment about women funny.
 
 You lose.  Get over it.  Move on.

In this context I don't believe he made a joke, read his other mails. I
apologized, he insults.

I thought this thread already was closed, at least after the admin
blamed me.

I simply unsubscribe.

This was a battle? I wasn't aware of this. And the winner is?

I neither want to win nor to lose. I don't like the noise and that I get
blamed for this noise.


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Re: Outrageous Xenophobia. Was: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 14:45 +, Brad Rogers wrote:
 On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 14:53:18 +0100
 Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@rocketmail.com wrote:
 
 Hello Ralf,
 
 This isn't a joke, since I'm from Germany and a lot of people really
 were killed by Nazis.
 
 And there we have it;  You don't find this funny.  Many people didn't
 find your comment about women funny.

As 1000 times explained, the joke was about men, not women. Anyway
sexism and I apologized if it should have hurt anybody.

 
 You lose.  Get over it.  Move on.

Than it would be nice, if I need not to receive additional insults
off-list.



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Re: Outrageous Xenophobia. Was: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

2012-11-26 Thread Titanus Eramius

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 15:28:04 +0100
Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@rocketmail.com wrote:

snip

 IMO nothing can be bad with a joke about men, women, Germans, Jews
 etc., it becomes bad if people have got bad intentions. Tony has got
 a bad intention or he's serious sick and not aware about the
 difference of the order to kill people and what happened on this list.

But Tonys joke is funny, and I don't really like being called sick
because I like it. How can one say others don't have humor, and then
react like this on a joke?

Not that I need to explain [a little of] my humor in this regard
(black humor as we call it in Denmark), but it's funny because of how
sick it is, and it serves to remind us all about what to avoid. If we
would stop to talk about it, joke about it and what not, then history is
a little bit closer to repeat itself.

And this is exactly why humor and jokes should and is off topic on a
international list like this. It's not funny for all.

 - Titanus


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Re: Outrageous Xenophobia. Was: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

2012-11-26 Thread Veljko

On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 03:28:04PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 IMO nothing can be bad with a joke about men, women, Germans, Jews etc.,
 it becomes bad if people have got bad intentions.

I just couldn't agree more. I refuse to accept that people on this list
are malicious. People are helping other people, they spend their
valuable time on it. So I don't think Ralf meant to insult anyone. I
find his joke funny. And I think Tony's joke was funny too. And I'm from
country that suffered because of bad painter. And people should forgive
each other, especially when they apologize. So shall we forgive each
others and just move on? For crying out loud... Just drop it...


Veljko
 


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Re: Outrageous Xenophobia. Was: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 16:28 +0100, Titanus Eramius wrote:
 On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 15:28:04 +0100
 Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@rocketmail.com wrote:
 
 snip
 
  IMO nothing can be bad with a joke about men, women, Germans, Jews
  etc., it becomes bad if people have got bad intentions. Tony has got
  a bad intention or he's serious sick and not aware about the
  difference of the order to kill people and what happened on this list.
 
 But Tonys joke is funny, and I don't really like being called sick
 because I like it. How can one say others don't have humor, and then
 react like this on a joke?
 
 Not that I need to explain [a little of] my humor in this regard
 (black humor as we call it in Denmark), but it's funny because of how
 sick it is, and it serves to remind us all about what to avoid. If we
 would stop to talk about it, joke about it and what not, then history is
 a little bit closer to repeat itself.
 
 And this is exactly why humor and jokes should and is off topic on a
 international list like this. It's not funny for all.
 
  - Titanus

It's not funny to receive tons of insults off-list.
It's not funny, if a thread never ever will stop.
It at least could be moved to off topic list or at least not be
continued by private mails to my accounts.

IIRC I apologized. IIRC I didn't wrote anything positive or negative to
any of the last jokes. Did somebody call you sick? Did I call somebody
sick who likes what ever kind of humour?

I just don't like never ending annoyances. But I understand what
happens, the list gets half of the mails, I the other half of the mails
and if I now write anything it does look like I'm an idiot.

Fair play :(



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Re: Outrageous Xenophobia. Was: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 16:28 +0100, Titanus Eramius wrote:
 On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 15:28:04 +0100
 Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@rocketmail.com wrote:
 
 snip
 
  IMO nothing can be bad with a joke about men, women, Germans, Jews
  etc., it becomes bad if people have got bad intentions. Tony has got
  a bad intention or he's serious sick and not aware about the
  difference of the order to kill people and what happened on this list.
 
 But Tonys joke is funny, and I don't really like being called sick
 because I like it. How can one say others don't have humor, and then
 react like this on a joke?
 
 Not that I need to explain [a little of] my humor in this regard
 (black humor as we call it in Denmark), but it's funny because of how
 sick it is, and it serves to remind us all about what to avoid. If we
 would stop to talk about it, joke about it and what not, then history is
 a little bit closer to repeat itself.
 
 And this is exactly why humor and jokes should and is off topic on a
 international list like this. It's not funny for all.
 
  - Titanus

PS: I received more positive replies off-list, than insults. However,
receiving insults should stop after a while. My apologize were not
accepted! Nobody ever did apologize to me!

Do you notice a difference? I don't write mails off-list. I apologize. I
stopped continuing this thread. But now it's enough!



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Re: Outrageous Xenophobia. Was: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 16:45 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 16:28 +0100, Titanus Eramius wrote:
  On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 15:28:04 +0100
  Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@rocketmail.com wrote:
  
  snip
  
   IMO nothing can be bad with a joke about men, women, Germans, Jews
   etc., it becomes bad if people have got bad intentions. Tony has got
   a bad intention or he's serious sick and not aware about the
   difference of the order to kill people and what happened on this list.
  
  But Tonys joke is funny, and I don't really like being called sick
  because I like it. How can one say others don't have humor, and then
  react like this on a joke?
  
  Not that I need to explain [a little of] my humor in this regard
  (black humor as we call it in Denmark), but it's funny because of how
  sick it is, and it serves to remind us all about what to avoid. If we
  would stop to talk about it, joke about it and what not, then history is
  a little bit closer to repeat itself.
  
  And this is exactly why humor and jokes should and is off topic on a
  international list like this. It's not funny for all.
  
   - Titanus
 
 It's not funny to receive tons of insults off-list.
 It's not funny, if a thread never ever will stop.
 It at least could be moved to off topic list or at least not be
 continued by private mails to my accounts.
 
 IIRC I apologized. IIRC I didn't wrote anything positive or negative to
 any of the last jokes. Did somebody call you sick? Did I call somebody
 sick who likes what ever kind of humour?
 
 I just don't like never ending annoyances. But I understand what
 happens, the list gets half of the mails, I the other half of the mails
 and if I now write anything it does look like I'm an idiot.
 
 Fair play :(
 

It's the CONTEXT that makes his joke bad, since it wasn't meant as a
joke. You can write the same in another CONTEXT and it will be a joke
for some people.

When I noticed that I hurt somebody who misunderstand my joke I directly
uncalled tried to explain and apologized.

I anyway received mail from the admin.

What should I do with off-list mail in the future? Should I forward all
those jokes to the list? Admin?


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Re: Outrageous Xenophobia. Was: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

2012-11-26 Thread Titanus Eramius

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 16:45:52 +0100
Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@rocketmail.com wrote:

 On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 16:28 +0100, Titanus Eramius wrote:
  On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 15:28:04 +0100
  Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@rocketmail.com wrote:
  
  snip
  
   IMO nothing can be bad with a joke about men, women, Germans, Jews
   etc., it becomes bad if people have got bad intentions. Tony has
   got a bad intention or he's serious sick and not aware about the
   difference of the order to kill people and what happened on this
   list.
  
  But Tonys joke is funny, and I don't really like being called sick
  because I like it. How can one say others don't have humor, and then
  react like this on a joke?
  
  Not that I need to explain [a little of] my humor in this regard
  (black humor as we call it in Denmark), but it's funny because of
  how sick it is, and it serves to remind us all about what to avoid.
  If we would stop to talk about it, joke about it and what not, then
  history is a little bit closer to repeat itself.
  
  And this is exactly why humor and jokes should and is off topic on a
  international list like this. It's not funny for all.
  
   - Titanus
 
 It's not funny to receive tons of insults off-list.

I didn't do that.

 It's not funny, if a thread never ever will stop.

So I can't (or shouldn't) answer to a thread you wrote on earlier today?

 It at least could be moved to off topic list or at least not be
 continued by private mails to my accounts.

Why? All of this talk about jokes started here; it should end here and
not somewhere else where folk like me won't see it because we don't
follow other Debian lists.
 
 IIRC I apologized. IIRC I didn't wrote anything positive or negative
 to any of the last jokes. Did somebody call you sick? Did I call
 somebody sick who likes what ever kind of humour?

You wrote I agree that sometimes comparing the Nazis with what happens
today is ok, Godwin's law is stupid, we need to to compare from time to
time, but in this case it's completely sick.

The point I was trying to make is that jokes rarely are universally
funny. You like jokes about men other people don't, and I like jokes
about Nazis you don't. That's fine by me and the reason I think jokes
don't belong in international gatherings like the present one.

This is, after all, a specialised list, not a comedy central.

 I just don't like never ending annoyances. But I understand what
 happens, the list gets half of the mails, I the other half of the
 mails and if I now write anything it does look like I'm an idiot.
 
 Fair play :(

I don't see the game in this (fair play here is something used in
sports only, I don't know if it's the same in English), I see a
discussion about how we all are to talk to each other on this list, and
since I often finds really good help here, I would like the list to go
on, and get even better.

I also don't see how any of this makes you look like an idiot. I've
read a part of the emails you sent to this list and generally found
them informative and good.

This is not a critique of you from me, merely some observations I think
we all should consider when trying to reach some sort of consensus on
the subject.

My point is clear now, I think jokes here is a bad idea because of the
problems they can give, but I understand if others disagrees. One can
always use a good laugh, and I am always searching for new jokes :-)

(I just think they will give more grief than laughs here)

 - Titanus


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Re: Outrageous Xenophobia. Was: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

2012-11-26 Thread berenger . morel

My point is clear now, I think jokes here is a bad idea because of 
the

problems they can give, but I understand if others disagrees. One can
always use a good laugh, and I am always searching for new jokes :-)

(I just think they will give more grief than laughs here)

 - Titanus


Even jokes on windows, apples and penguins ? ;)


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Re: Outrageous Xenophobia. Was: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

2012-11-26 Thread Beco

On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 1:06 PM, Veljko velj...@gmail.com wrote:
 [cut] And people should forgive
 each other, especially when they apologize. So shall we forgive each
 others and just move on? For crying out loud... Just drop it...


 Veljko


Seconded!

There is no such thing as universal joke. We always will like ones and
dislike others. The problem arises when we want to measure others
tastes with our perception and point-of-view. Sentences like: this is
not funny, or this is funny is useless.

And lets not ban jokes, they are an intriguing part of human social
interaction and they teach a lot to us all, specially regarding
tolerance.




Regards,
Beco



-- 
Dr Beco
A.I. researcher

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everyone you love, everyone you know... (Carl Sagan, 1934-1996)


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Re: What is this list for? was - Re: Outrageous Xenophobia. Was: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

2012-11-26 Thread latinfo

  Forwarded Message 
 From: Tony van der Hoff t...@vanderhoff.org
 To: Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@rocketmail.com
 Subject: Re: Outrageous Xenophobia. Was: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re:
 Mail client, threads, etc...
 Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 13:24:41 +

 On 26/11/12 13:00, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 12:27 +, Tony van der Hoff
 It is alleged, that a certain German Fuerer added a smiley to the order
 to exterminate the Jews, to indicate it was a joke. It was
 misunderstood.

 Arrogant Bastard! plonk

 --
 Tony van der Hoff| mailto:t...@vanderhoff.org
 Buckinghamshire, England |

Tony
You might reconsider your opinion, because of the facts that Jews(Israel)
are doing the same thing with Palestinians and around the World.

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Re: Outrageous Xenophobia. Was: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

2012-11-26 Thread latinfo

 On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 16:45 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:


 I anyway received mail from the admin.

Is it possible that we read it? It could be convenient to know what is
happening with Debian's view point.



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Re: What is this list for? was - Re: Outrageous Xenophobia. Was: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

2012-11-26 Thread Brad Alexander

Can we move this type of conversation somewhere else? And can we
concentrate on answering Debian questions instead of list etiquette
(e.g. No HTML!, No top posting!, No jokes!)?

On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 3:33 PM,  lati...@vcn.bc.ca wrote:
  Forwarded Message 
 From: Tony van der Hoff t...@vanderhoff.org
 To: Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@rocketmail.com
 Subject: Re: Outrageous Xenophobia. Was: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re:
 Mail client, threads, etc...
 Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 13:24:41 +

 On 26/11/12 13:00, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 12:27 +, Tony van der Hoff
 It is alleged, that a certain German Fuerer added a smiley to the order
 to exterminate the Jews, to indicate it was a joke. It was
 misunderstood.

 Arrogant Bastard! plonk

 --
 Tony van der Hoff| mailto:t...@vanderhoff.org
 Buckinghamshire, England |

 Tony
 You might reconsider your opinion, because of the facts that Jews(Israel)
 are doing the same thing with Palestinians and around the World.

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Re: What is this list for? was - Re: Outrageous Xenophobia. Was: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

2012-11-26 Thread Robert Holtzman

 
  On 26/11/12 13:00, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
  On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 12:27 +, Tony van der Hoff
  It is alleged, that a certain German Fuerer added a smiley to the order
  to exterminate the Jews, to indicate it was a joke. It was
  misunderstood.
 
  Arrogant Bastard! plonk
 
  --
  Tony van der Hoff| mailto:t...@vanderhoff.org
  Buckinghamshire, England |
 
 Tony
 You might reconsider your opinion, because of the facts that Jews(Israel)
 are doing the same thing with Palestinians and around the World.

Not a good plan to get off on that track, pal!

-- 
Bob Holtzman
If you think you're getting free lunch, 
check the price of the beer.
Key ID: 8D549279


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Re: What is this list for? was - Re: Outrageous Xenophobia. Was: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 18:02 -0700, Robert Holtzman wrote:
  
   On 26/11/12 13:00, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
   On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 12:27 +, Tony van der Hoff
   It is alleged, that a certain German Fuerer added a smiley to the order
   to exterminate the Jews, to indicate it was a joke. It was
   misunderstood.
  
   Arrogant Bastard! plonk
  
   --
   Tony van der Hoff| mailto:t...@vanderhoff.org
   Buckinghamshire, England |
  
  Tony
  You might reconsider your opinion, because of the facts that Jews(Israel)
  are doing the same thing with Palestinians and around the World.
 
 Not a good plan to get off on that track, pal!

It would be nice to correct the quotation. I didn't wrote this. I didn't
reply to this thread any more and somebody else did wrote those words,
but it's quoted in a way, that people might think I've written this.

Wrong quotation can happen, but it should be corrected. Those words
might be true or not, but at least I like not to be killed by the
Mossad, for something I haven't written.

Ma'as-salama,
Ralf


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Re: Outrageous Xenophobia. Was: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

2012-11-26 Thread Chris Bannister

On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 02:00:05PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 12:27 +, Tony van der Hoff 
  It is alleged, that a certain German Fuerer added a smiley to the order
  to exterminate the Jews, to indicate it was a joke. It was misunderstood.
 
 I made a joke with the contend
 
 Men tend to make mistakes, when they are in love with a women

JFTR, that is the first time I've seen that meaning. Therefore, I assume
that I am not the only one.

But for future reference:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kI3MwwWYC3Q

-- 
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing. --- Malcolm X


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Re: Outrageous Xenophobia. Was: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

2012-11-26 Thread Chris Bannister

On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 05:58:08PM +0100, Titanus Eramius wrote:
 
 This is, after all, a specialised list, not a comedy central.

You are joking, aren't you? 

-- 
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing. --- Malcolm X


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Re: Outrageous Xenophobia. Was: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

On Tue, 2012-11-27 at 15:07 +1300, Chris Bannister wrote:
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 02:00:05PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 12:27 +, Tony van der Hoff
It is alleged, that a certain German Fuerer added a smiley to the order
to exterminate the Jews, to indicate it was a joke. It was misunderstood.

I made a joke with the contend

Men tend to make mistakes, when they are in love with a women

JFTR, that is the first time I've seen that meaning. Therefore, I assume
that I am not the only one.

But for future reference:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kI3MwwWYC3Q

Unfortunately, this SME-music-content is not available in Germany
because GEMA has not granted the respective music publishing rights.

JFTR people messed up things. Read all mails again and be aware that I'm
not a native speaker. And don't take care about quotations. The latest
highlight is that I should have written something about Israel, but I
didn't wrote it. Perhaps a joke. The only reason for me to reply again
to this thread. Most of all that noise isn't from me!

What next?

Take a look what mails are from me and what mails are from others and
take care about the fact that I was silent, I only replied when it
became to insane.

Discredit, defamation, lies!

In the archive it's easy to see what mails, what words are from me and
what are the mails from other people. You can't see the mails of cowards
who wrote off-list.

Listen to this one
http://www.google.de/#hl=detbo=dbiw=1152bih=693sclient=psy-abq=truth+is+out+of+styleoq=truth+is+out+of+stylegs_l=hp.3..0i19l2j0i30i19l2.1634.5909.0.6178.21.11.0.9.9.0.386.1614.0j10j0j1.11.0...0.0...1c.1.RiNMcK9JSk4pbx=1bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.fp=fcf59fe2d0bc3145bpcl=38897761

Ma'as-salama,
Ralf

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Re: Outrageous Xenophobia. Was: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

2012-11-26 Thread Zenaan Harkness

On 11/27/12, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@rocketmail.com wrote:

 Take a look what mails are from me and what mails are from others and
 take care about the fact that I was silent, I only replied when it
 became to insane.

 Discredit, defamation, lies!

 In the archive it's easy to see what mails, what words are from me and
 what are the mails from other people. You can't see the mails of cowards
 who wrote off-list.

Don't worry Ralf, it is ok; as I see it, those who cannot come to
sanity, in face of apology, in face of clarification, or who cannot
understand how many  are in email, then you do not need to worry
about them.

Let them live in their confusion or whatever you want to call it that they be.

It is ok for you to be defensive. But it is perhaps not optimal for
you to be defensive. Especially when you make mistake of
interpretation or assumption, eg that Nazi joke is somehow direct
comparison to you/ your joke/ whatever.

The things that matter, matter to those who matter.
The rest live in confusion or misunderstanding; let them be there, is
least effort; may be a bit of gentle clarification or simple apology,
but why spend more?

Your intent is seen by those who can read. That is all that matters.

Peace
Zenaan


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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

2012-11-25 Thread Neal Murphy

On Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:54:33 PM Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 ... My humour is less good than Chaplin's ...

OK. Pointed, direct humor back at you. What was the shortest book ever 
published? One Thousand Years of German Humor, which consisted of the 
frontispiece, the preface, and the introduction. :) :)


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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

2012-11-25 Thread Zenaan Harkness

On 11/26/12, Neal Murphy neal.p.mur...@alum.wpi.edu wrote:
 On Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:54:33 PM Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 ... My humour is less good than Chaplin's ...

 OK. Pointed, direct humor back at you. What was the shortest book ever
 published? One Thousand Years of German Humor, which consisted of the
 frontispiece, the preface, and the introduction. :) :)

Outrageous! Simply outrageous!

Would a smiley just about now be politically correct, or incorrect?


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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

2012-11-23 Thread Andrei POPESCU

On Mi, 21 nov 12, 14:40:58, Miles Fidelman wrote:
 
 Obviously, Debian is working so well, for everybody, that we need
 something to keep the list from becoming dead air :-)

It happens during the freeze.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

2012-11-22 Thread Titanus Eramius

On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 00:11:08 +0100
Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:

On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 23:28 +0100, François TOURDE wrote:
Le 15665ième jour après Epoch,
Lisi Reisz écrivait:

On Wednesday 21 November 2012 16:55:22 Beco wrote:
Use of smiley face should point this was just a joke. As we can
see in this first use in 1982:

That is what is so very offensive. He thinks that being so rude
about just over half of the population is _funny_. As apparently
do you.

Yes, me too. Because I'm a french native, I consider joking is a
good way to avoid the toxic politically correct way of life.

Please, Lisi, could you put me on your kill-file, because there is
chances that I post jokes sometimes.

Thanks in advance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_in_The_Hitchhiker%27s_Guide_to_the_Galaxy#Point_of_View_Gun

I too is from Europe as my mailaddress surely reveals, and I must say I
find this entire subject a bit off. Allow me to expand on that.

Being Germanys northen neighbour we tell jokes about the Nazis all the
time, but I know from experience that the Germans don't think they are
appropriate. Not telling the jokes around Germans is not some
political correct thing we do; it's out of respect for them.

The same goes for this subject in my opinion. Just because it's OK to
use a specific type of humor were one is from, does not mean it can or
should be used everywere, and it have nothing to do with political
correctness.

Even though I've been reading this list for almost a year now, I have
only posted two or three times due to the above, and how hard it can be
to write neutral in English. I think the best thing that can happen
from all of this is that we all learn a little, and it's not really a
solution to block out certain people or sign off (IMHO of course).

Besides, and not to be rude or harsh or anything, but isn't jokes
off-topic anyway?

From the cold North, Titanus

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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

2012-11-22 Thread Morel Bérenger

Le Mer 21 novembre 2012 19:12, Brad Rogers a écrit :
 On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 18:41:08 +0100
 Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:


 Hello Ralf,


 I'm not sure, if it's really just the language barrier. Coarse humour


 I picked up your intent, but clearly others didn't.  At least one other
 person involved in this rigmarole is not a native English speaker.  As

Usually, French people as I are known to be poor in other languages.
But using a smiley, followed by the mention of the hopefully it is [...]
is not really ambiguous.
There are words, but there is also the spirit behind them.

On the other hand, what I have seen in reaction what immediate ban,
without letting any chance to explain.

So, on one side, there is someone which made an error on reaction of the
phrase errare humanum est (I think this situation is quite funny,
speaking about that).
On the other, we have someone which had banned him immediately (or
whatever the word on mailing lists).

I think both made an error. The first one made a joke which was not a good
idea somewhere where you does not know everyone else, and he apologized.
The other just banned him, without trying to understand.

[mylife]
My father have always said me something like When you argue with someone,
if one got angry, it means he loosed, because he is unable to convince his
opponent that he is true.
I think he is wrong. When someone become angry, everyone loose, because
everyone failed to learn.
But I also think that the one which become angry is the one which loose
the more things:
_ he was not able to learn
_ he was not able to teach
_ he loosed 5 minutes of life ;)
[/mylife]

Seriously... I like doing jokes on girls. But I have nothing against jokes
on men. Both kinds of jokes makes fun of half the humanity. but humans are
able to laugh, and this is a very important thing. This is why those jokes
where made first.
Like jokes we french guys make on belgium peoples. They have also some on
us, french. And when we are together, we use them to make fun of others,
but also of us.
And there is no lack of respect there (I could say whatever I want on
them, the really make some very good beers, and I can only respect them
for that :P)


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Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

2012-11-22 Thread Tom Furie

On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 05:41:08PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:

 Apologize!

As a point of reference, I think the word you were looking for there was
apologies, as in Please accept my apologies.

Cheers,
Tom

-- 
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deed recorded, and the book written against fame and learning has the
author's name on the title page.
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson, Journals, 1831


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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

2012-11-22 Thread Beco

On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 7:28 PM, François TOURDE fra...@tourde.org wrote:
 Le 15665ième jour après Epoch,
 Lisi Reisz écrivait:

 On Wednesday 21 November 2012 16:55:22 Beco wrote:
 Use of smiley face should point this was just a joke. As we can see in
 this first use in 1982:

 That is what is so very offensive.  He thinks that being so rude about just
 over half of the population is _funny_. As apparently do you.

 Yes, me too. Because I'm a french native, I consider joking is a good
 way to avoid the toxic politically correct way of life.

 Please, Lisi, could you put me on your kill-file, because there is
 chances that I post jokes sometimes.

 Thanks in advance.


François,

I was proud to be one of many who visited France and came back without
liking a single Frenchman.
Now you ruined it!

Regards,
Beco

PS. If your english is as bad as mine, maybe you don't understand what
I mean, or maybe I wrote something that mean other than what I want
you to understand. In any case, get over it. I'll not explain a comma.
(Alas, it took a Frenchman to ruin it!)




-- 
Dr Beco
A.I. researcher

-- . --

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it
everyone you love, everyone you know... (Carl Sagan, 1934-1996)


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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

2012-11-22 Thread berenger . morel




Le 22.11.2012 22:07, Beco a écrit :
On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 7:28 PM, François TOURDE fra...@tourde.org 
wrote:

Le 15665ième jour après Epoch,
Lisi Reisz écrivait:


On Wednesday 21 November 2012 16:55:22 Beco wrote:
Use of smiley face should point this was just a joke. As we can 
see in

this first use in 1982:


That is what is so very offensive.  He thinks that being so rude 
about just

over half of the population is _funny_. As apparently do you.


Yes, me too. Because I'm a french native, I consider joking is a 
good

way to avoid the toxic politically correct way of life.

Please, Lisi, could you put me on your kill-file, because there is
chances that I post jokes sometimes.

Thanks in advance.



François,

I was proud to be one of many who visited France and came back 
without

liking a single Frenchman.
Now you ruined it!

Regards,
Beco

PS. If your english is as bad as mine, maybe you don't understand 
what

I mean, or maybe I wrote something that mean other than what I want
you to understand. In any case, get over it. I'll not explain a 
comma.

(Alas, it took a Frenchman to ruin it!)


Hey, it is very outrageous for my compatriots, you know? I'm 
obfuscated... err... no, that's not the good word... damn!



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Mail client, threads, etc... [Was: Sources.list Question]

Le 15665ième jour après Epoch,
Lisi Reisz écrivait:

 On Wednesday 21 November 2012 10:39:46 François TOURDE wrote:
[...]

 Lisi, consider change or upgrade your client ;)

 Obviously!!  This is the first time, to my knowledge, that it has let me 
 down, 
 but one could say once is too often. :-(

Don't worry, be happy :P ... In your case, that let you see new
questions on hijacks. Not me.

 I wonder which email client Ralf is using, since he too thought that Fred was 

X-Mailer: Evolution 3.6.0-0ubuntu3 

As marked on his message.

 the OP?  I haven't looked at Gnus.  Perhaps I should? 

Be prepared. Gnus run under emacs, and is originally designed for
newsgroups, not for mails. It's a rugged mail client ;)

But it has powerfull possibilities, and is customisable using Lisp.

May emacs be with you.


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Re: Mail client, threads, etc... [Was: Sources.list Question]

On Wednesday 21 November 2012 11:10:46 François TOURDE wrote:
 X-Mailer: Evolution 3.6.0-0ubuntu3

 As marked on his message.

Do'h. :-(

Lisi


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Re: Mail client, threads, etc... [Was: Sources.list Question]

François, a good idea to open a new subject, but keeping the id. Others
might think, this is bad too. I say, use a client that enables to
select, as you want the selection, even if people use the id in
different ways.

 But it has powerfull possibilities, and is customisable using Lisp.
 
 May emacs be with you.

Too funny, since somebody for the subject about tools does mention
Emacs.

We should be aware that newbies never ever will use (e)lisp to set up
preferences for their MUAs, newsgroup thingies etc., they will use a
GUI, with a menu for preferences and theay don't know about email
headers and ids. Any selection on an open users list by something
averaged non-experts can't know is stupid. It's completely impossible
that this ever will work on an open users list. The experts and the
software they use should be smarter by being more flexible.



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Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

Le 15665ième jour après Epoch,
Ralf Mardorf écrivait:

 François, a good idea to open a new subject, but keeping the id.

And Gnus, on reply on this kind of subjects, ask me if I want to remove
the [Was: old subject] ...

 We should be aware that newbies never ever will use (e)lisp to set up
 preferences for their MUAs, newsgroup thingies etc., they will use a
 GUI, with a menu for preferences and theay don't know about email
 headers and ids. Any selection on an open users list by something
 averaged non-experts can't know is stupid. It's completely impossible
 that this ever will work on an open users list. The experts and the
 software they use should be smarter by being more flexible.

Just some replies to others info on the thread, and on this message:

- Yes, it's recurent to read You break thread or Don't reply directly
  to OP ... IMHO, it's because this list is about Debian, but about
  /How to use a ML/ too.

- Errare humanum est, but to make a big mistake, you need a computer ;)

- I don't recommand Gnus for newbies, even if Gnus is GUI
  configurable. But I think it's really important to enlight (is this a
  real english word?) mechanisms hidden by GUI. If someone is not
  interrested, he/she can skip the text and focus only on the answer. If
  he/she is interrested, it's a way to learn.

- It's not about making selection, just about trying to explain people
  the way ML are working, and if they can learn more on their MUA to do
  smarter things. Your assertion We are leaders, progs are tools is
  only true if you know your tools, and it is adapted for your work. I'm
  not a leader on a car, I'm a danger ;)

I now will stop on this thread, to avoid making too much noise. Sorry
for the already-done noise.


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Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 14:10:11 +0100
fra...@tourde.org (François TOURDE) wrote:

 - Errare humanum est, but to make a big mistake, you need a
 computer ;)

:D

Or a woman. I hope this isn't too sexist.

Regards,
Ralf


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Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

2012-11-21 Thread Darac Marjal

On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 04:51:24PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 14:10:11 +0100
 fra...@tourde.org (François TOURDE) wrote:
 
  - Errare humanum est, but to make a big mistake, you need a
  computer ;)
 
 :D
 
 Or a woman. I hope this isn't too sexist.

Actually, that is quite sexist. In fact, it's plain and simply sexist
which is inappropriate in this community.



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Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

On Wednesday 21 November 2012 15:51:24 Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 Or a woman. I hope this isn't too sexist.

It is, extremely.  My husband says do you not think a woman is humanum as 
well?

I'm going to protect myself from you by kill-filing you.  You are utterly, 
utterly beyond the pale.

Lisi


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Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 16:00 +, Darac Marjal wrote:
 On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 04:51:24PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
  On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 14:10:11 +0100
  fra...@tourde.org (François TOURDE) wrote:
  
   - Errare humanum est, but to make a big mistake, you need a
   computer ;)
  
  :D
  
  Or a woman. I hope this isn't too sexist.
 
 Actually, that is quite sexist. In fact, it's plain and simply sexist
 which is inappropriate in this community.

Apologize!

FWIW I wanted to express that men tend to do mistakes, if women become
to important for their lives and happens much too often. The sexist
assumption is, that women tend to take advantage from men who lose
control. IMO true, just not politically correct. However, it's OT.



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Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

2012-11-21 Thread Darac Marjal

On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 05:41:08PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 16:00 +, Darac Marjal wrote:
  On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 04:51:24PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
   On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 14:10:11 +0100
   fra...@tourde.org (François TOURDE) wrote:
   
- Errare humanum est, but to make a big mistake, you need a
computer ;)
   
   :D
   
   Or a woman. I hope this isn't too sexist.
  
  Actually, that is quite sexist. In fact, it's plain and simply sexist
  which is inappropriate in this community.
 
 Apologize!

I most certainly will not.



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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 16:34 +, Lisi Reisz wrote:
 On Wednesday 21 November 2012 15:51:24 Ralf Mardorf wrote:
  Or a woman. I hope this isn't too sexist.
 
 It is, extremely.  My husband says do you not think a woman is humanum as 
 well?
 
 I'm going to protect myself from you by kill-filing you.  You are utterly, 
 utterly beyond the pale.

Since I'm kill-filed you can't read it any more. Apologize! But I
already explained that I guess men and women are human and that's why
mistakes happen.



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Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

On Wednesday 21 November 2012 16:43:33 Darac Marjal wrote:
 On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 05:41:08PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
  On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 16:00 +, Darac Marjal wrote:
   On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 04:51:24PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 14:10:11 +0100
   
fra...@tourde.org (François TOURDE) wrote:
 - Errare humanum est, but to make a big mistake, you need a
 computer ;)

:D
   
Or a woman. I hope this isn't too sexist.
  
   Actually, that is quite sexist. In fact, it's plain and simply sexist
   which is inappropriate in this community.
 
  Apologize!

 I most certainly will not.

Thank you, Darac.  I appreciate that.

Lisi


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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

2012-11-21 Thread Jochen Spieker

Lisi Reisz:
 On Wednesday 21 November 2012 15:51:24 Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 Or a woman. I hope this isn't too sexist.
 
 It is, extremely.  My husband says do you not think a woman is humanum as 
 well?

I think you got Ralf wrong. He did not want to express that women are
not human but to make a big mistake, you need a computer or a woman.

Of course, this is still not very bright or sensitive.

 I'm going to protect myself from you by kill-filing you.

I did that a few months ago already.

J.
-- 
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up leading the hypnotised.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

2012-11-21 Thread Beco

On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Ralf Mardorf
ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:
 On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 16:34 +, Lisi Reisz wrote:
 On Wednesday 21 November 2012 15:51:24 Ralf Mardorf wrote:
  Or a woman. I hope this isn't too sexist.

 It is, extremely.  My husband says do you not think a woman is humanum as
 well?

 I'm going to protect myself from you by kill-filing you.  You are utterly,
 utterly beyond the pale.

 Since I'm kill-filed you can't read it any more. Apologize! But I
 already explained that I guess men and women are human and that's why
 mistakes happen.





 - Errare humanum est, but to make a big mistake, you need a
 computer ;)

:D

Or a woman. I hope this isn't too sexist.

Regards,
Ralf


Use of smiley face should point this was just a joke. As we can see in
this first use in 1982:

- original ---
19-Sep-82 11:44Scott E  Fahlman :-)
From: Scott E  Fahlman Fahlman at Cmu-20c

I propose that the following character sequence for joke markers:

:-)

Read it sideways.  Actually, it is probably more economical to mark
things that are NOT jokes, given current trends.  For this, use

:-(

--- end 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoticon


Please, don't take this too serious. And he also apologizes.


My best,
Beco





-- 
Dr Beco
A.I. researcher

-- . --

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everyone you love, everyone you know... (Carl Sagan, 1934-1996)


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Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 16:43 +, Darac Marjal wrote:
 On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 05:41:08PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
  On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 16:00 +, Darac Marjal wrote:
   On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 04:51:24PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 14:10:11 +0100
fra...@tourde.org (François TOURDE) wrote:

 - Errare humanum est, but to make a big mistake, you need a
 computer ;)

:D

Or a woman. I hope this isn't too sexist.
   
   Actually, that is quite sexist. In fact, it's plain and simply sexist
   which is inappropriate in this community.
  
  Apologize!
 
 I most certainly will not.

I can't do anything else than to apologize. If you can't forgive, I
can't do anything else. Too bad.

I very much apologize that just some words from me do upset at least two
list members.


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Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

2012-11-21 Thread Jochen Spieker

Darac Marjal:
 On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 05:41:08PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 16:00 +, Darac Marjal wrote:
 
 Actually, that is quite sexist. In fact, it's plain and simply sexist
 which is inappropriate in this community.
 
 Apologize!
 
 I most certainly will not.

Being a non-native speaker, I think Ralf did not want you to apologize
but he wanted to express his own regret. In German he would have written
Entschuldigung! which is a short form of Ich bitte um Entschuldigung
which in turn is roughly equal to Please accept my apology.

J.
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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

2012-11-21 Thread Brad Rogers

On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 17:47:20 +0100
Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:

Hello Ralf,

Since I'm kill-filed you can't read it any more. Apologize! But I

You should say either I apologise or My apologies.

Apologize! means you're demanding an apology from someone else.

-- 
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/ _)radnever immediately apparent
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Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 18:04 +0100, Jochen Spieker wrote:
 Darac Marjal:
  On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 05:41:08PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
  On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 16:00 +, Darac Marjal wrote:
  
  Actually, that is quite sexist. In fact, it's plain and simply sexist
  which is inappropriate in this community.
  
  Apologize!
  
  I most certainly will not.
 
 Being a non-native speaker, I think Ralf did not want you to apologize
 but he wanted to express his own regret. In German he would have written
 Entschuldigung! which is a short form of Ich bitte um Entschuldigung
 which in turn is roughly equal to Please accept my apology.
 
 J.

I already was thinking of a misunderstanding. It's correct, I
apologized. I did not request that somebody else should do this.

I really wonder that a harmless joke does offend at least two members
that much.



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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 17:13 +, Brad Rogers wrote:
 On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 17:47:20 +0100
 Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:
 
 Hello Ralf,
 
 Since I'm kill-filed you can't read it any more. Apologize! But I
 
 You should say either I apologise or My apologies.
 
 Apologize! means you're demanding an apology from someone else.

I'm not sure, if it's really just the language barrier. Coarse humour
doesn't lead to that much noise, in an environment where everything is
ok. I'm sorry for those words, but I can't do anything, if in some areas
those words are outrageous sexism that does lead to stop any
communication immediately. If the communication stops, misunderstandings
can't be eliminated.


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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

On Wednesday 21 November 2012 16:55:22 Beco wrote:
 Use of smiley face should point this was just a joke. As we can see in
 this first use in 1982:

That is what is so very offensive.  He thinks that being so rude about just 
over half of the population is _funny_. As apparently do you.

Lisi


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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

On Wednesday 21 November 2012 17:13:18 Brad Rogers wrote:
 Since I'm kill-filed you can't read it any more. Apologize! But I

 You should say either I apologise or My apologies.

 Apologize! means you're demanding an apology from someone else.

He probably is!

Lisi


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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 17:46 +, Lisi Reisz wrote:
 On Wednesday 21 November 2012 16:55:22 Beco wrote:
  Use of smiley face should point this was just a joke. As we can see in
  this first use in 1982:
 
 That is what is so very offensive.  He thinks that being so rude about just 
 over half of the population is _funny_. As apparently do you.

Please blame me for my coarse humour, not other people. The Great
Dictator from Chaplin isn't meant to make jokes about oppressed humans,
neither is his
Monsieur Verdoux sexist. My humour is less good than Chaplin's and I
apologized for my words.

There's nothing more I can do.



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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

2012-11-21 Thread Brad Rogers

On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 18:41:08 +0100
Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:

Hello Ralf,

I'm not sure, if it's really just the language barrier. Coarse humour

I picked up your intent, but clearly others didn't.  At least one other
person involved in this rigmarole is not a native English speaker.  As
such, it's essential to think carefully before posting anything to the
list.  Misunderstandings are all too easy to have in a written medium
where visual and auditory clues as to intending to be humorous are
absent.

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Re: Denigrating messages on Debian lists [Re: [ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...]]

On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 10:28 -0800, Don Armstrong wrote:
  On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 14:10:11 +0100
  fra...@tourde.org (François TOURDE) wrote:
  
   - Errare humanum est, but to make a big mistake, you need a
   computer ;)
  
  Or a woman. I hope this isn't too sexist.
 
 Sending messages which denigrate members of the Debian community
 aren't acceptable on Debian lists.
 
 If you have to ask yourself whether something is denigrating others,
 it probably is.
 
 Please refrain from doing so in the future, or listmast...@debian.org
 may take action to curtail your posting ability to Debian lists.
 
 
 Don Armstrong
 (on behalf of listmast...@lists.debian.org)

You've got the impression I denigrated members of the list after reading
the threads with this misunderstanding from the beginning to the end? Or
did you just read this quote without the context?

Especially this Lisi often felt offended, even by newbies that e.g.
carbon copy to her, when they replied or write HTML mails. So this S/N
ratio is ok, but a harmless joke is a sin?

I can't do anything else, than to explain and to apologize.

If this list is for denunciators, that can't forgive, can't accept a
pardon.

Pff!


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Re: Denigrating messages on Debian lists [Re: [ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...]]

On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 19:45 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 10:28 -0800, Don Armstrong wrote:
   On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 14:10:11 +0100
   fra...@tourde.org (François TOURDE) wrote:
   
- Errare humanum est, but to make a big mistake, you need a
computer ;)
   
   Or a woman. I hope this isn't too sexist.
  
  Sending messages which denigrate members of the Debian community
  aren't acceptable on Debian lists.
  
  If you have to ask yourself whether something is denigrating others,
  it probably is.
  
  Please refrain from doing so in the future, or listmast...@debian.org
  may take action to curtail your posting ability to Debian lists.
  
  
  Don Armstrong
  (on behalf of listmast...@lists.debian.org)
 
 You've got the impression I denigrated members of the list after reading
 the threads with this misunderstanding from the beginning to the end? Or
 did you just read this quote without the context?
 
 Especially this Lisi often felt offended, even by newbies that e.g.
 carbon copy to her, when they replied or write HTML mails. So this S/N
 ratio is ok, but a harmless joke is a sin?
 
 I can't do anything else, than to explain and to apologize.
 
 If this list is for denunciators, that can't forgive, can't accept a
 pardon.

Oops,

then 'm willing to unsubscribe myself. Was this a PM? If so, Lisi does
sent PMs to the list too.
 
 Pff!

It's ridiculous to make a mountain out of a dust speck.

Bye!


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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 18:12 +, Brad Rogers wrote:
 On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 18:41:08 +0100
 Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:
 
 Hello Ralf,
 
 I'm not sure, if it's really just the language barrier. Coarse humour
 
 I picked up your intent, but clearly others didn't.  At least one other
 person involved in this rigmarole is not a native English speaker.  As
 such, it's essential to think carefully before posting anything to the
 list.  Misunderstandings are all too easy to have in a written medium
 where visual and auditory clues as to intending to be humorous are
 absent.


Hi Brad :)

I guess I'll unsubscribe. IMO it became ridiculous. I wasn't
over-careful, IMO that's all.

I never was sexist before, but Lisi very often felt offended by other
users. I'm not the first one she kill-filed, I'm not the first one that
made her post a statement from her husband.

If it's her list, I'm willing to go.

I apologized often enough. What else should I do?

Regards,
Ralf



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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

2012-11-21 Thread Beco

On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Wednesday 21 November 2012 16:55:22 Beco wrote:
 Use of smiley face should point this was just a joke. As we can see in
 this first use in 1982:

 That is what is so very offensive.  He thinks that being so rude about just
 over half of the population is _funny_. As apparently do you.

 Lisi


Lisi,

Yes, I think its funny. Not because rudeness is funny. But because
absurd is funny. Because we all know today that women are such a
strong creature, that can do whatever men can, and is so intelligent
as men, and even better in a lot of areas when they expertise. This
together causes a sensation of absurd that is really funny. It is an
absurd that a computer is misconfigured because the OP is woman, and
to point it is just a (bad) joke. I'm sure, god strike a lightning in
my head, that Ralf does not mean being woman is the real cause of
your problem, and so, the solution would be an operation to change
sex.


My best.
Beco.




-- 
Dr Beco
A.I. researcher

-- . --

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it
everyone you love, everyone you know... (Carl Sagan, 1934-1996)


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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 16:00 -0300, Beco wrote:
 On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote:
  On Wednesday 21 November 2012 16:55:22 Beco wrote:
  Use of smiley face should point this was just a joke. As we can see in
  this first use in 1982:
 
  That is what is so very offensive.  He thinks that being so rude about just
  over half of the population is _funny_. As apparently do you.
 
  Lisi
 
 
 Lisi,
 
 Yes, I think its funny. Not because rudeness is funny. But because
 absurd is funny. Because we all know today that women are such a
 strong creature, that can do whatever men can, and is so intelligent
 as men, and even better in a lot of areas when they expertise. This
 together causes a sensation of absurd that is really funny. It is an
 absurd that a computer is misconfigured because the OP is woman, and
 to point it is just a (bad) joke. I'm sure, god strike a lightning in
 my head, that Ralf does not mean being woman is the real cause of
 your problem, and so, the solution would be an operation to change
 sex.
 
 
 My best.
 Beco.

A man needs a computer or a women to make a big mistake, so this does
mean that men are weak. Ironically sexist is, that this might imply that
women are aware about this weakness and that they take advantage of this
weakness.

If this really should offend some women (or men) I apologize. I
apologized again and again and tried to explain.

This S/N ratio became hilarious and I won't apologize that this useless
discussion does continue. IMO now Lisi really should apologize too!

She isn't that important, as she often thinks that she is.

I'm a human, I sometimes misbehave and I apologize, this also happened
on this list, but in this case I guess I didn't misbehave. I simply
wasn't careful enough.

Regards,
Ralf


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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

2012-11-21 Thread Florian Snow


Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com:

On Wednesday 21 November 2012 17:13:18 Brad Rogers wrote:

Apologize! means you're demanding an apology from someone else.


He probably is!


Ok, I understand that you were offended by Ralf's original joke, but 
is it really necessary to make an already heated debate worse by making 
statements like yours? Ralf already explained that he actually meant to 
apologize and didn't ask for an apology and others already explained the 
same thing. So even with Ralf being in your killfile, you probably 
received a message about Ralf's true intent when he wrote Apologize!.


All the best,
Florian


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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

2012-11-21 Thread Miles Fidelman


Florian Snow wrote:


Ok, I understand that you were offended by Ralf's original joke, but 
is it really necessary to make an already heated debate worse by 
making statements like yours? Ralf already explained that he actually 
meant to apologize and didn't ask for an apology and others already 
explained the same thing. So even with Ralf being in your killfile, 
you probably received a message about Ralf's true intent when he wrote 
Apologize!.


Obviously, Debian is working so well, for everybody, that we need 
something to keep the list from becoming dead air :-)


Happy Thanksgiving Folks (to those in the US),

Miles Fidelman



--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.    Yogi Berra


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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

Le 15665ième jour après Epoch,
Lisi Reisz écrivait:

 On Wednesday 21 November 2012 16:55:22 Beco wrote:
 Use of smiley face should point this was just a joke. As we can see in
 this first use in 1982:

 That is what is so very offensive.  He thinks that being so rude about just 
 over half of the population is _funny_. As apparently do you.

Yes, me too. Because I'm a french native, I consider joking is a good
way to avoid the toxic politically correct way of life.

Please, Lisi, could you put me on your kill-file, because there is
chances that I post jokes sometimes.

Thanks in advance.


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Re: Denigrating messages on Debian lists [Re: [ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...]]

Le 15665ième jour après Epoch,
Ralf Mardorf écrivait:

 On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 10:28 -0800, Don Armstrong wrote:
  On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 14:10:11 +0100
  fra...@tourde.org (François TOURDE) wrote:
  
   - Errare humanum est, but to make a big mistake, you need a
   computer ;)
  
  Or a woman. I hope this isn't too sexist.
 
 Sending messages which denigrate members of the Debian community
 aren't acceptable on Debian lists.

I'm so sorry denigrating computers on my initial sentence, I apologize.

If I look at the two sentences, Ralf's one is equipollent to mine, so I
consider it harmful for computers and I apologize.

 Please refrain from doing so in the future, or listmast...@debian.org
 may take action to curtail your posting ability to Debian lists.

I agree.

/F - Happy french native ;)


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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...