Re: Newbie Aptitude Question about Security Updates
On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 11:10:55AM -0400, Jan Sneep [EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say: I'm a total newbie ... downloaded and successfully installed my very first Debian OS a month of so ago and thought I should try and make sure I have all the latest updates ... my preference is for using a GUI and not command line and so I have been using Gnome ... I logged in as usual opened a terminal window typed aptitude for the very first time ... read what I thought I needed to from the online manual ... aptitude tells you what it's going to do before it does it. It's typically a good idea to read the list of packages it wants to remove. :) (the same goes for any other package manager) Daniel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Aptitude Question about Security Updates
On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 11:45:51AM -0400, Douglas Allan Tutty [EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say: Yes, aptitude is the tool to use. However, if you read all the recent threads on aptitude you'll see that the _first_ time you use it, you need to get your options set (e.g. not including recommends as strong depends) and go through the list of packages you have installed and setting up the Automatic vs Manual flags. Is this still necessary in etch? It should have been fixed (bug #411123). Daniel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Newbie Aptitude Question about Security Updates
Now that's what I needed to hear. You are the first to mention an orange asterisk !! ... I suppose Groucho could also have said Well if you don't like our first answer ... we have others :O) So is there some place on the Gnome desktop that I can click on to get positive feedback that all the current security updates are in place? As I have never seen an asterisk in three months, of any color on the tool bar, I'm assuming that something hasn't been working properly? I have ALWAYS done the standard stable install, NEVER complied or added even so much as one simple package and that's my frustration. I had hoped that the OS would have been more user friendly than Windows. Just as an example, yesterday I wasted the entire day trying to re-install the OS. Must have wiped the hard drive, formatted it and tried the Net Install at least 5 times and couldn't figure out what prompt I had answered differently in prior installs that worked. Finally I decided to try and make a new install image CD. At that point I realized that a new kernel had been released this month and my old CD wouldn't work. So now I have a new desktop to figure out, well at least new to me. Have to figure out how to get Samba and Cups working all over again. So in effect I'm almost back to where I was in January. Very frustrating. I suspect it was the new release that messed things up with Apitude in the first place. It would have been nice if the program was smart enough to recognise that there had been a new release and ask me if I wanted to upgrade the kernel. But then again the Aptitude documentation makes it sound very simple and SAFE. The program will automatically manage all the dependencies and even remove packages that are no longer required. I had never done an update and since I've been given the impression that program updates are being done all the time it made sense that some dead wood would need to be removed. By the way, is there some way / place to identify documentation errors? Did a search on workgroup to try and find out where I can specify the Windows Workgroup in the Gnome Help documentation. Under Network Administration Tool Manual , section 3.6 To change the way your system identifies itself in Windows networks the documentation says that you can change the workgroup setting. But in fact not under the General Tab nor under any of the Tabs can you see what Workgroup is being presented never mind change it. Documentation also mentions being able to put in WINS addresses, but none of the tabs show that either. :O( Jan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of BartlebyScrivener Sent: April 23, 2007 10:57 PM To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Newbie Aptitude Question about Security Updates On Apr 23, 5:00 pm, Jan Sneep [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Doug, But with all due respect ... it should be easier ... a lot easier! ... simple basic stuff, like getting the latest Security Updates, IMHO should be a no-brainer for the average user and not require a System Administrator to do ... :O( Well now just a minute. If you did a standard install with the default Gnome desktop, all you had to do was wait for a little orange asterik to appear on the toolbar, click on it, and all of your security updates would be automatically installed. No asterik means there are no security updates. That IS dead simple. I'm not blaming you, because it's easy to get stray advice here and there and then end up using a program (Aptitude), even though you don't know the options and implications. But Gnome and Synaptic are dead simple. You can use Ubuntu as someone suggested. That is easier, if it installs. Though after five or six installations of each, I think Debian installs more reliably. Ubuntu is really easy, but (again, just my personal experience) is not as stable as Debian, assuming you install all of the updates willy nilly on both distributions. Every so often something breaks in a big way with an Ubuntu update. That should not happen with Debian stable, unless you start installing your own packages and modules. No expert, but that's been my experience. As Groucho said, Those are my principles, and if you don't like them. Well, I have others. bs -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.5.7/771 - Release Date: 2007.04.21 11:56 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.5.10/774 - Release Date: 2007.04.23 5:26 PM -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Newbie Aptitude Question about Security Updates
Found it !!! Desktop - Administation - Update Manager and yes the check shows that all is good ... :O) -Original Message- From: Jan Sneep [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: April 24, 2007 8:15 AM To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: RE: Newbie Aptitude Question about Security Updates Now that's what I needed to hear. You are the first to mention an orange asterisk !! ... I suppose Groucho could also have said Well if you don't like our first answer ... we have others :O) So is there some place on the Gnome desktop that I can click on to get positive feedback that all the current security updates are in place? As I have never seen an asterisk in three months, of any color on the tool bar, I'm assuming that something hasn't been working properly? I have ALWAYS done the standard stable install, NEVER complied or added even so much as one simple package and that's my frustration. I had hoped that the OS would have been more user friendly than Windows. Just as an example, yesterday I wasted the entire day trying to re-install the OS. Must have wiped the hard drive, formatted it and tried the Net Install at least 5 times and couldn't figure out what prompt I had answered differently in prior installs that worked. Finally I decided to try and make a new install image CD. At that point I realized that a new kernel had been released this month and my old CD wouldn't work. So now I have a new desktop to figure out, well at least new to me. Have to figure out how to get Samba and Cups working all over again. So in effect I'm almost back to where I was in January. Very frustrating. I suspect it was the new release that messed things up with Apitude in the first place. It would have been nice if the program was smart enough to recognise that there had been a new release and ask me if I wanted to upgrade the kernel. But then again the Aptitude documentation makes it sound very simple and SAFE. The program will automatically manage all the dependencies and even remove packages that are no longer required. I had never done an update and since I've been given the impression that program updates are being done all the time it made sense that some dead wood would need to be removed. By the way, is there some way / place to identify documentation errors? Did a search on workgroup to try and find out where I can specify the Windows Workgroup in the Gnome Help documentation. Under Network Administration Tool Manual , section 3.6 To change the way your system identifies itself in Windows networks the documentation says that you can change the workgroup setting. But in fact not under the General Tab nor under any of the Tabs can you see what Workgroup is being presented never mind change it. Documentation also mentions being able to put in WINS addresses, but none of the tabs show that either. :O( Jan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of BartlebyScrivener Sent: April 23, 2007 10:57 PM To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Newbie Aptitude Question about Security Updates On Apr 23, 5:00 pm, Jan Sneep [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Doug, But with all due respect ... it should be easier ... a lot easier! ... simple basic stuff, like getting the latest Security Updates, IMHO should be a no-brainer for the average user and not require a System Administrator to do ... :O( Well now just a minute. If you did a standard install with the default Gnome desktop, all you had to do was wait for a little orange asterik to appear on the toolbar, click on it, and all of your security updates would be automatically installed. No asterik means there are no security updates. That IS dead simple. I'm not blaming you, because it's easy to get stray advice here and there and then end up using a program (Aptitude), even though you don't know the options and implications. But Gnome and Synaptic are dead simple. You can use Ubuntu as someone suggested. That is easier, if it installs. Though after five or six installations of each, I think Debian installs more reliably. Ubuntu is really easy, but (again, just my personal experience) is not as stable as Debian, assuming you install all of the updates willy nilly on both distributions. Every so often something breaks in a big way with an Ubuntu update. That should not happen with Debian stable, unless you start installing your own packages and modules. No expert, but that's been my experience. As Groucho said, Those are my principles, and if you don't like them. Well, I have others. bs -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.5.7/771 - Release Date: 2007.04.21 11:56 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.5.10/774 - Release Date: 2007.04.23 5:26 PM -- To UNSUBSCRIBE
Newbie Aptitude Question about Security Updates
Wanted to make sure I had all the latest Security installed applications updates. Based on some recent threads on this list it looked like Aptitude was the tool to use. I'm a total newbie ... downloaded and successfully installed my very first Debian OS a month of so ago and thought I should try and make sure I have all the latest updates ... my preference is for using a GUI and not command line and so I have been using Gnome ... I logged in as usual opened a terminal window typed aptitude for the very first time ... read what I thought I needed to from the online manual ... I hit a u to make sure I had the latest list of available updates ... made sure the cursor was on Security Updates then hit g to install the updates ... it showed me a list of updates and I hit g again to install the updates ... after it download many many many things and asked me many questions and gave some dire warnings, to which I accepted whatever default presented itself ... I rebooted and now no gnome and when I type it at a command line I get an error saying that it can't find gnome ggghh! Now it looks like I'll have to re-install the OS ... aaaggghh ...!!! What is the simplest and easiest way to make sure that I keep everything update? Help, Jan No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.5.7/771 - Release Date: 2007.04.21 11:56 AM
Re: Newbie Aptitude Question about Security Updates
On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 11:10:55AM -0400, Jan Sneep wrote: Wanted to make sure I had all the latest Security installed applications updates. Based on some recent threads on this list it looked like Aptitude was the tool to use. I'm a total newbie ... downloaded and successfully installed my very first Debian OS a month of so ago and thought I should try and make sure I have all the latest updates ... my preference is for using a GUI and not command line and so I have been using Gnome ... I logged in as usual opened a terminal window typed aptitude for the very first time ... read what I thought I needed to from the online manual ... Probably should have read the _whole_ manual... Yes, aptitude is the tool to use. However, if you read all the recent threads on aptitude you'll see that the _first_ time you use it, you need to get your options set (e.g. not including recommends as strong depends) and go through the list of packages you have installed and setting up the Automatic vs Manual flags. questions and gave some dire warnings, to which I accepted whatever default presented itself ... I rebooted and now no gnome and when I type it at a command line I get an error saying that it can't find gnome ggghh! Now it looks like I'll have to re-install the OS ... aaaggghh ...!!! If you can boot, get on the internet, and run aptitude, you don't need to reinstall. Follow the above instructions re aptitude, then find gnome, select that for installation, then hit g. It will reinstall your gnome. Take it one major app at a time. Gnome is a seriously _major_ app. Good luck. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Newbie Aptitude Question about Security Updates
I could log in, but every command I could think of to try failed ... the only command that worked was help and it didn't really provide any helpful advice ... so I've started to re-install the OS, this will be the 7th or 8th time I've had to re-install it ... :O( ... every time I try to do something it has failed on me. Very frustrating. It doesn't feel very stable sometimes. I haven't a clue what packages the initial install program has installed (other than the Desktop Environment, Print Server, Mail Server check boxes that are presented during initial install) ... never mind have to go through them all and set options ... there isn't a simple way to get the OS to check what packages are installed and then go get all the updates and install them? -Original Message- From: Douglas Allan Tutty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: April 23, 2007 11:46 AM To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Newbie Aptitude Question about Security Updates On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 11:10:55AM -0400, Jan Sneep wrote: Wanted to make sure I had all the latest Security installed applications updates. Based on some recent threads on this list it looked like Aptitude was the tool to use. I'm a total newbie ... downloaded and successfully installed my very first Debian OS a month of so ago and thought I should try and make sure I have all the latest updates ... my preference is for using a GUI and not command line and so I have been using Gnome ... I logged in as usual opened a terminal window typed aptitude for the very first time ... read what I thought I needed to from the online manual ... Probably should have read the _whole_ manual... Yes, aptitude is the tool to use. However, if you read all the recent threads on aptitude you'll see that the _first_ time you use it, you need to get your options set (e.g. not including recommends as strong depends) and go through the list of packages you have installed and setting up the Automatic vs Manual flags. questions and gave some dire warnings, to which I accepted whatever default presented itself ... I rebooted and now no gnome and when I type it at a command line I get an error saying that it can't find gnome ggghh! Now it looks like I'll have to re-install the OS ... aaaggghh ...!!! If you can boot, get on the internet, and run aptitude, you don't need to reinstall. Follow the above instructions re aptitude, then find gnome, select that for installation, then hit g. It will reinstall your gnome. Take it one major app at a time. Gnome is a seriously _major_ app. Good luck. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.5.7/771 - Release Date: 2007.04.21 11:56 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.5.7/771 - Release Date: 2007.04.21 11:56 AM -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Aptitude Question about Security Updates
On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 12:22:57PM -0400, Jan Sneep wrote: I could log in, but every command I could think of to try failed ... the only command that worked was help and it didn't really provide any helpful advice ... so I've started to re-install the OS, this will be the 7th or 8th time I've had to re-install it ... :O( ... every time I try to do something it has failed on me. Very frustrating. It doesn't feel very stable sometimes. I haven't a clue what packages the initial install program has installed (other than the Desktop Environment, Print Server, Mail Server check boxes that are presented during initial install) ... never mind have to go through them all and set options ... there isn't a simple way to get the OS to check what packages are installed and then go get all the updates and install them? That's aptitude's job. FYI 'help' is command internal to bash. Etch is quite stable. You just told aptitude to go ahead and hose your system :). Actually, the 'stable' re a release means everything works pretty well so we'll freeze it at this point and release it. The 'stable' referrs to the low frequency of changes, and only gets security fixes. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Learn to use the command line tools. There's no reason why you can't take a basic system (i.e. basedebs only) with a functioning aptitude and get it to do anything you want, including showing you gnome. For a beginner to parachute into a graphical environment is great untill something goes wrong. Its like parachuting onto Mt. Everest. Great. Now what. Good luck. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Aptitude Question about Security Updates
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jan Sneep wrote: I could log in, but every command I could think of to try failed ... the only command that worked was help and it didn't really provide any helpful advice ... so I've started to re-install the OS, this will be the 7th or 8th time I've had to re-install it ... :O( ... every time I try to do something it has failed on me. Very frustrating. It doesn't feel very stable sometimes. I haven't a clue what packages the initial install program has installed (other than the Desktop Environment, Print Server, Mail Server check boxes that are presented during initial install) ... never mind have to go through them all and set options ... there isn't a simple way to get the OS to check what packages are installed and then go get all the updates and install them? -Original Message- From: Douglas Allan Tutty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: April 23, 2007 11:46 AM To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Newbie Aptitude Question about Security Updates On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 11:10:55AM -0400, Jan Sneep wrote: Wanted to make sure I had all the latest Security installed applications�updates. Based on some recent threads on this list it looked like Aptitude was the tool to use. � I'm a total newbie ... downloaded and successfully installed my very first Debian OS a month of so ago and thought I should try and make sure I have all the latest updates ...�my preference is for�using a GUI and not command line and so I have been using Gnome ... I logged in as usual opened a terminal window typed aptitude for the very first time ... read what I thought I needed to from the online manual ... Probably should have read the _whole_ manual... Yes, aptitude is the tool to use. However, if you read all the recent threads on aptitude you'll see that the _first_ time you use it, you need to get your options set (e.g. not including recommends as strong depends) and go through the list of packages you have installed and setting up the Automatic vs Manual flags. questions and gave some dire warnings, to which I accepted whatever default presented itself ... I rebooted and now no gnome and when I type it at a command line I get an error saying that it can't find gnome ggghh! � Now it looks like I'll have to re-install the OS ... aaaggghh ...!!! � If you can boot, get on the internet, and run aptitude, you don't need to reinstall. Follow the above instructions re aptitude, then find gnome, select that for installation, then hit g. It will reinstall your gnome. Take it one major app at a time. Gnome is a seriously _major_ app. Good luck. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.5.7/771 - Release Date: 2007.04.21 11:56 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.5.7/771 - Release Date: 2007.04.21 11:56 AM Well, in your case you could use aptitude to what your asking for, but I would recommend to you synaptic, which is a gnome based front end to apt-get (another package manager). It doesn't do the recommends installs that aptitude can, but it is GUI and can do updates to your current packages and it a little easier for a new user to understand. As for you comment on being stable or not, Debian is very stable, but you do need to know a little bit about what you're doing, that is why there are manuals and many web sites that you can use as a resource to learn the GNU/Linux way of doing things. Since you are a total newbie, I will give specific instructions for you to install synaptic. If you have a Gnome session (You have a desktop and click on things) then find the Gnome-Terminal in the menus, and click on it. Then inside the gnome-terminal window, type: su - (type the root password) apt-get install synaptic exit (or just close the window) Now you can find the Synaptic Package Manager in the System Menu and can use that to find other packages to install or to update to the latest version of the packages that you already have. As a side note, reinstalling the system is rarely necessary. Most problems are recoverable without having to reinstall, but for a newbie, reinstalling is quite frequently faster and simpler. Joe - -- Registerd Linux user #443289 at http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGLOPfiXBCVWpc5J4RAvEqAJ9nke5WLCcnDYx0ENUVFsqB3j9rXgCguBgu sidmPp8KZVjJnmCIUJs2uQk= =IWrB -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Newbie Aptitude Question about Security Updates
It is just SOOO frustrating ... like now I can't get the OS to re-install ... have to use FDISK to delete the partitions, but it seems to remember the old info ... so have to first format the hard drive with a DOS partition and then try to re-install ... and it takes hours to download all the files over the Internet ... the task that I started with in January, yes, January, was to try and get the Open Source version of MS Exchange running to allow me to share contact information between users on our LAN ... I've spent hours reading online manuals and today doing a Security Update SHOULD have been a very simple thing ... and yet now all the stuff I've done to get Samba to work and get the correct printer driver for CUPS is all lost ... yes, one of those tasks on the list of things to learn is how to do a recoverable backup of the OS, but it has been so frutrating getting anything to work that tackling the job of finding drivers for the CD writter just seemed too much. Thanks for your suggestion ... once I get the OS back and working I'll try it. Jan -Original Message- From: Joe Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: April 23, 2007 12:51 PM To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Newbie Aptitude Question about Security Updates -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jan Sneep wrote: I could log in, but every command I could think of to try failed ... the only command that worked was help and it didn't really provide any helpful advice ... so I've started to re-install the OS, this will be the 7th or 8th time I've had to re-install it ... :O( ... every time I try to do something it has failed on me. Very frustrating. It doesn't feel very stable sometimes. I haven't a clue what packages the initial install program has installed (other than the Desktop Environment, Print Server, Mail Server check boxes that are presented during initial install) ... never mind have to go through them all and set options ... there isn't a simple way to get the OS to check what packages are installed and then go get all the updates and install them? -Original Message- From: Douglas Allan Tutty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: April 23, 2007 11:46 AM To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Newbie Aptitude Question about Security Updates On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 11:10:55AM -0400, Jan Sneep wrote: Wanted to make sure I had all the latest Security installed applications�updates. Based on some recent threads on this list it looked like Aptitude was the tool to use. � I'm a total newbie ... downloaded and successfully installed my very first Debian OS a month of so ago and thought I should try and make sure I have all the latest updates ...�my preference is for�using a GUI and not command line and so I have been using Gnome ... I logged in as usual opened a terminal window typed aptitude for the very first time ... read what I thought I needed to from the online manual ... Probably should have read the _whole_ manual... Yes, aptitude is the tool to use. However, if you read all the recent threads on aptitude you'll see that the _first_ time you use it, you need to get your options set (e.g. not including recommends as strong depends) and go through the list of packages you have installed and setting up the Automatic vs Manual flags. questions and gave some dire warnings, to which I accepted whatever default presented itself ... I rebooted and now no gnome and when I type it at a command line I get an error saying that it can't find gnome ggghh! � Now it looks like I'll have to re-install the OS ... aaaggghh ...!!! � If you can boot, get on the internet, and run aptitude, you don't need to reinstall. Follow the above instructions re aptitude, then find gnome, select that for installation, then hit g. It will reinstall your gnome. Take it one major app at a time. Gnome is a seriously _major_ app. Good luck. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.5.7/771 - Release Date: 2007.04.21 11:56 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.5.7/771 - Release Date: 2007.04.21 11:56 AM Well, in your case you could use aptitude to what your asking for, but I would recommend to you synaptic, which is a gnome based front end to apt-get (another package manager). It doesn't do the recommends installs that aptitude can, but it is GUI and can do updates to your current packages and it a little easier for a new user to understand. As for you comment on being stable or not, Debian is very stable, but you do need to know a little bit about what you're doing, that is why there are manuals and many web sites that you can use as a resource to learn
Re: Newbie Aptitude Question about Security Updates
Jan Sneep wrote: It is just SOOO frustrating ... like now I can't get the OS to re-install ... have to use FDISK to delete the partitions, but it seems to remember the old info ... so have to first format the hard drive with a DOS partition and then try to re-install ... and it takes hours to download all the files over the Internet ... the task that I started with in January, yes, January, was to try and get the Open Source version of MS Exchange running to allow me to share contact information between users on our LAN ... I've spent hours reading online manuals and today doing a Security Update SHOULD have been a very simple thing ... and yet now all the stuff I've done to get Samba to work and get the correct printer driver for CUPS is all lost ... yes, one of those tasks on the list of things to learn is how to do a recoverable backup of the OS, but it has been so frutrating getting anything to work that tackling the job of finding drivers for the CD writter just seemed too much. Thanks for your suggestion ... once I get the OS back and working I'll try it. Jan I would actually recommend that you just try ubuntu. It comes with training wheels. I would have been 100% lost the first time I installed debian if it had not been for my previous ubuntu experience. You are not going to learn debian (or linux) overnight Sam
RE: Newbie Aptitude Question about Security Updates
You are not going to learn Debian (or Linux) overnight ... Oh, I know that ... didn't expect to ... doesn't make it any less frustrating though ... as I said after three months of plugging away at this, when I have some time to work on it, and I'm still not even at the point where I can download and install the software that got me started on this adventure .. signed up on the Ogo-users list and have beed faithfully reading the postings figuring that at some point the tid bits I've been picking up will help ... thnakfully it is a slow list ... compared to this one. :O) -Original Message- From: Sam Leon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: April 23, 2007 1:51 PM To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Newbie Aptitude Question about Security Updates Jan Sneep wrote: It is just SOOO frustrating ... like now I can't get the OS to re-install ... have to use FDISK to delete the partitions, but it seems to remember the old info ... so have to first format the hard drive with a DOS partition and then try to re-install ... and it takes hours to download all the files over the Internet ... the task that I started with in January, yes, January, was to try and get the Open Source version of MS Exchange running to allow me to share contact information between users on our LAN ... I've spent hours reading online manuals and today doing a Security Update SHOULD have been a very simple thing ... and yet now all the stuff I've done to get Samba to work and get the correct printer driver for CUPS is all lost ... yes, one of those tasks on the list of things to learn is how to do a recoverable backup of the OS, but it has been so frutrating getting anything to work that tackling the job of finding drivers for the CD writter just seemed too much. Thanks for your suggestion ... once I get the OS back and working I'll try it. Jan I would actually recommend that you just try ubuntu. It comes with training wheels. I would have been 100% lost the first time I installed debian if it had not been for my previous ubuntu experience. You are not going to learn debian (or linux) overnight Sam No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.5.7/771 - Release Date: 2007.04.21 11:56 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.5.7/771 - Release Date: 2007.04.21 11:56 AM
Re: Newbie Aptitude Question about Security Updates
On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 02:23:01PM -0400, Jan Sneep wrote: You are not going to learn Debian (or Linux) overnight ... Oh, I know that ... didn't expect to ... doesn't make it any less frustrating though ... as I said after three months of plugging away at this, when I have some time to work on it, and I'm still not even at the point where I can download and install the software that got me started on this adventure .. signed up on the Ogo-users list and have beed faithfully reading the postings figuring that at some point the tid bits I've been picking up will help ... thnakfully it is a slow list ... compared to this one. :O) Part of the problem is that to have a graphical system installed means you have a whole lot of things installed. The more things installed, the more likely that something somewhere can go wrong. The most recent case was going wrong while checking for security updates. Try this: Install but don't select _any_ tasks, not even standard. If that doesn't give you aptitude then do apt-get install aptitude aptitude-doc. Read the aptitude manual and learn aptitude. Get aptitude set up to do what you want/need and to know what packages _you_ want and what are just automatic. Then take one thing at a time and use aptitude to install it. Start with all the important things like man pages, an editor (nano and vim-tiny), lynx, and probably mc since its so handy. Then get more documentation: debian-reference, HOWTOs. Then get networking (e.g. pppconfig or whatever you need) so you can access the ineternet. Then mail (mutt, exim4, mailx). At this point you have a fairly complete system. Understand this system thoroughly. Then look at gnome's dependancies and mark for manual install the main Xorg on which gnome depends. This will give you a basic X system (with at least an xterm. Finally, add gnome. I wouldn't expect someone who's mathematical experience is balancing a checkbook to understand a calculus text. They could bang away on it till they're blue in the fingers; its too big a gap. Ditto any OS with the difference between a user of a computer and an administrator. Remember, as soon as you get root privileges (su, sudo, whatever) you stop being a user and you become a sysadmin. Good luck, Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Newbie Aptitude Question about Security Updates
Thanks Doug, But with all due respect ... it should be easier ... a lot easier! ... simple basic stuff, like getting the latest Security Updates, IMHO should be a no-brainer for the average user and not require a System Administrator to do ... :O( I started out using PCs before Windows was even a twinkle in Bill Gates' eye ... so learned how to get a lot of things done with a command line using the various versions of DOS ... have taught myself how to program in a number of proprietary languages that came with very poor documentation ... I've even taken a couple of courses on user interface design as part of my Master's degree in the Management of Technology ... I like GUIs, always have, probably always will prefer them, doesn't mean I can't use a command line, just NOT my first choice. I appreciate your replies, Jan -Original Message- From: Douglas Allan Tutty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: April 23, 2007 4:36 PM To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Newbie Aptitude Question about Security Updates On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 02:23:01PM -0400, Jan Sneep wrote: You are not going to learn Debian (or Linux) overnight ... Oh, I know that ... didn't expect to ... doesn't make it any less frustrating though ... as I said after three months of plugging away at this, when I have some time to work on it, and I'm still not even at the point where I can download and install the software that got me started on this adventure .. signed up on the Ogo-users list and have beed faithfully reading the postings figuring that at some point the tid bits I've been picking up will help ... thnakfully it is a slow list ... compared to this one. :O) Part of the problem is that to have a graphical system installed means you have a whole lot of things installed. The more things installed, the more likely that something somewhere can go wrong. The most recent case was going wrong while checking for security updates. Try this: Install but don't select _any_ tasks, not even standard. If that doesn't give you aptitude then do apt-get install aptitude aptitude-doc. Read the aptitude manual and learn aptitude. Get aptitude set up to do what you want/need and to know what packages _you_ want and what are just automatic. Then take one thing at a time and use aptitude to install it. Start with all the important things like man pages, an editor (nano and vim-tiny), lynx, and probably mc since its so handy. Then get more documentation: debian-reference, HOWTOs. Then get networking (e.g. pppconfig or whatever you need) so you can access the ineternet. Then mail (mutt, exim4, mailx). At this point you have a fairly complete system. Understand this system thoroughly. Then look at gnome's dependancies and mark for manual install the main Xorg on which gnome depends. This will give you a basic X system (with at least an xterm. Finally, add gnome. I wouldn't expect someone who's mathematical experience is balancing a checkbook to understand a calculus text. They could bang away on it till they're blue in the fingers; its too big a gap. Ditto any OS with the difference between a user of a computer and an administrator. Remember, as soon as you get root privileges (su, sudo, whatever) you stop being a user and you become a sysadmin. Good luck, Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.5.7/771 - Release Date: 2007.04.21 11:56 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.5.7/771 - Release Date: 2007.04.21 11:56 AM -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Aptitude Question about Security Updates
On Apr 23, 5:00 pm, Jan Sneep [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Doug, But with all due respect ... it should be easier ... a lot easier! ... simple basic stuff, like getting the latest Security Updates, IMHO should be a no-brainer for the average user and not require a System Administrator to do ... :O( Well now just a minute. If you did a standard install with the default Gnome desktop, all you had to do was wait for a little orange asterik to appear on the toolbar, click on it, and all of your security updates would be automatically installed. No asterik means there are no security updates. That IS dead simple. I'm not blaming you, because it's easy to get stray advice here and there and then end up using a program (Aptitude), even though you don't know the options and implications. But Gnome and Synaptic are dead simple. You can use Ubuntu as someone suggested. That is easier, if it installs. Though after five or six installations of each, I think Debian installs more reliably. Ubuntu is really easy, but (again, just my personal experience) is not as stable as Debian, assuming you install all of the updates willy nilly on both distributions. Every so often something breaks in a big way with an Ubuntu update. That should not happen with Debian stable, unless you start installing your own packages and modules. No expert, but that's been my experience. As Groucho said, Those are my principles, and if you don't like them. Well, I have others. bs -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
