Re: No comments (responding to questions on the list)
On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 08:16:23 -0500 Ken Heard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Rafi Gabzu wrote: > > > Hi , > > In the last two weeks I stopped receiving answers to the questions I > > post in this mailing list , till now it was very help full. > > What happened ? something that I did ...? > > Thanks, > > Rafi > > > I did my own survey of posts to this list and discovered that fully > half of them are never answered. Andrew Cater suggested two > possibilities as to why: > > > a.) Everyone thought everyone else was going to answer > > b.) No one had the appropriate answer. c.) poster obviously didn't research (at all!) the issue prior to asking for help d.) poorly worded question/lack of details ensure at least two more emails before the real issue can even be addressed... not trying to flame, just pointing out things that have prompted me to not bother to answer. Is it better to respond RTFM? > > The real question however stems from the nature of Linux itself: an > open source, mostly free software developed almost entirely by > volunteers. At the moment Linux has the reputation -- probably deserved > -- as being for geeks only. As such, it has no more than 3% of the > market for operating systems for personal desktop and laptop computers. > > Now for the question: do the creators and users of Linux want it to > expand beyond that 3%? If so, then Linux has to be made useable by the > average BDU (brain dead user). > > A good start in this direction has already been taken: the creation of > such distributions as Ubuntu and Kubuntu. More however needs to be > done. Two essential tasks are improving the documentation and answering > *ALL* questions asked by newbies on lists such as this one. > > I have already written elsewhere on the documentation issue. In the > Debian system, the role of the documentors needs to be enhanced, with > among other things a veto role in the approval process. > > As for answering questions, the Debian organization should ensure that > *EVERY* question be answered within a reasonable period of time. The > questions which are answered are mostly answered by somebody on the list > within 48 hours. Somebody should be designated to see that questions > not answered, say within 72 or 96 hours, will be. This person should > either answer each question himself or -- more useful -- assign > questions for answer to those people in the organization most suitable > for each question. The difficulty is, how do you motivate volunteers to answer questions that fall into my two categories above? At some point its gotta drive someone over the edge or worse, away from wanting to help. .02 as always Andrew > -- > Ken Heard > Research Associate > Museum Studies Program > University of Toronto, Canada > > > > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: No comments (responding to questions on the list)
On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 11:13:30 -0500
kamaraju kusumanchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ken Heard wrote:
>
> > Rafi Gabzu wrote:
> >
> >> Hi ,
> >> In the last two weeks I stopped receiving answers to the questions I
> >> post in this mailing list , till now it was very help full.
> >> What happened ? something that I did ...?
> >> Thanks,
> >> Rafi
> >>
> > I did my own survey of posts to this list and discovered that fully
> > half of them are never answered. Andrew Cater suggested two
> > possibilities as to why:
> >
> >> a.) Everyone thought everyone else was going to answer
> >> b.) No one had the appropriate answer.
> >
>
> If someone is not getting an answer to their question it is most
> probably a good idea to learn how to ask smart questions. The following
> links might help.
>
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
> http://people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/du-guidelines.html
>
> Most probably the reasons are not having a good informative subject
> line, not doing a google search, not searching the archives, not
> providing enough information to reproduce the problem etc., I highly
> doubt that the point b ("no one had the appropriate answer") occurs on
> d-u. It is a tremendous knowledge base
>
> >
> > As for answering questions, the Debian organization should ensure
> > that
> > *EVERY* question be answered within a reasonable period of time. The
> > questions which are answered are mostly answered by somebody on the list
> > within 48 hours. Somebody should be designated to see that questions
> > not answered, say within 72 or 96 hours, will be. This person should
> > either answer each question himself or -- more useful -- assign
> > questions for answer to those people in the organization most suitable
> > for each question.
>
> Time commitment for support? Well, that might happen if someone is
> willing to pay. But is a highly optimistic thing to expect from a bunch
> of volunteers :-) Heck there is no such time commitment for RC bugs (
> http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/ ) , leave alone for the support
> of general "help" questions.
>
> raju
Let's assume someone writes a perfect application. It is completely bug-free.
It's fast, feature-full, lightweight, the dream of every programmer. The
programmer posts it somewhere on the web, but never has the time to explain
what it does, how it works, etc, so nobody will ever user his application.
What's the point in writing such an application? One must find a good balance
between the two. IMHO Debian including the whole community is doing a pretty
good job, but we have to keep it up. Otherwise, users who might choose Debian
will end in using a different distro or even worse, go back to 'doze'. In the
long term this is not a good tendency. Our beloved Debian might suffer severe
losses from this, not talking about our ideals of FLOSS and so on...
Having a bug-free distro is vital, but supporting the users is almost as
important. What's the point of fixing bugs if there's no-one to benefit from
it? Ok, it's a bit melodramatic, but you get my point.
Regards
Andrei
--
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Re: No comments (responding to questions on the list)
Chinook wrote: Ken Heard wrote: Rafi Gabzu wrote: Hi , In the last two weeks I stopped receiving answers to the questions I post in this mailing list , till now it was very help full. What happened ? something that I did ...? Thanks, Rafi I did my own survey of posts to this list and discovered that fully half of them are never answered. Andrew Cater suggested two possibilities as to why: a.) Everyone thought everyone else was going to answer b.) No one had the appropriate answer. The real question however stems from the nature of Linux itself: an open source, mostly free software developed almost entirely by volunteers. At the moment Linux has the reputation -- probably deserved -- as being for geeks only. As such, it has no more than 3% of the market for operating systems for personal desktop and laptop computers. Now for the question: do the creators and users of Linux want it to expand beyond that 3%? If so, then Linux has to be made useable by the average BDU (brain dead user). A good start in this direction has already been taken: the creation of such distributions as Ubuntu and Kubuntu. More however needs to be done. Two essential tasks are improving the documentation and answering *ALL* questions asked by newbies on lists such as this one. I have already written elsewhere on the documentation issue. In the Debian system, the role of the documentors needs to be enhanced, with among other things a veto role in the approval process. As for answering questions, the Debian organization should ensure that *EVERY* question be answered within a reasonable period of time. The questions which are answered are mostly answered by somebody on the list within 48 hours. Somebody should be designated to see that questions not answered, say within 72 or 96 hours, will be. This person should either answer each question himself or -- more useful -- assign questions for answer to those people in the organization most suitable for each question. I think raju has some good points, but I might add a different perspective. Context: I'm a retired SE (dating from the early 60s) and have a fair knowledge of Unix and scripting, but am new to Linux. You might also call me a Mac elitist :-)) because my favorite development environment is ObjC/Cocoa. I decided on Debian because, in the long run, I think it will be the least restrictive in my playing around with cross platform development using GNUstep. Regarding your so-called BDUs, I think that the commercial packaging of Linux is making great progress. The issue is more likely some measurement of enlightenment relative to the "average" human (attested by many aspects of life). I won't get into the dastardly deeds of Micro$lop, but it does my heart good to see them concerned. History's cycles will not be denied, but end of their own excess. There is more than one way to interpret "can a 100,000 lemmings be wrong." As far as question responsiveness, it takes a combination of sufficient expertise and special talent (i.e. desire, being that talent is a hollow word) to deal with the ambiguities and nuances of posted questions. To my way of thinking, such would take another layer of organization in an already all volunteer populace. Even the better commercial organizations leave this mostly to the user community. I guess what I'm saying is that there are levels of Linux to decide on. If one chooses to jump into the deep end before learning to swim, then one must accept a certain amount of rebuffing (outwardly or by omission). If such is unacceptable, then stick with the more "finished" offerings. In my short experience with Debian, I'm impressed with the average responsiveness of the user community. One of the measures I used in selecting Debian was to peruse the various forums. So ends the sermon of the day :-) Lee C "Pay attention. You don't know what disguise your next teacher will be wearing." -- ? As a PS, I forgot to include my take on documentation. When I first got my dual PM G5 I thoroughly studied the book "Mac OS X Unleashed" and found it invaluable. I don't know what books exist for Linux or Debian in particular, but I do know there is extensive documentation to be found on the Debian site. I'm still referring to the User's Guide (and what it points to) as needed. Actually, for the "not completely computer illiterate" I prefer the documentation style employed on the Debian site. I find it much easier to zero in on a specific issue than such as the aforementioned book. In fact, in the context of a volunteer assemblage like Debian, I believe that the collective authors are to be commended for their thoroughness and effort. Being more of a developer than a writer, I find the chore of documentation to be rather laborious :-) As the saying goes - "Documentation is like sex: when it's good, it's very, very good. And when it's bad, it's better than n
Re: No comments (responding to questions on the list)
Ken Heard wrote: Rafi Gabzu wrote: Hi , In the last two weeks I stopped receiving answers to the questions I post in this mailing list , till now it was very help full. What happened ? something that I did ...? Thanks, Rafi I did my own survey of posts to this list and discovered that fully half of them are never answered. Andrew Cater suggested two possibilities as to why: a.) Everyone thought everyone else was going to answer b.) No one had the appropriate answer. The real question however stems from the nature of Linux itself: an open source, mostly free software developed almost entirely by volunteers. At the moment Linux has the reputation -- probably deserved -- as being for geeks only. As such, it has no more than 3% of the market for operating systems for personal desktop and laptop computers. Now for the question: do the creators and users of Linux want it to expand beyond that 3%? If so, then Linux has to be made useable by the average BDU (brain dead user). A good start in this direction has already been taken: the creation of such distributions as Ubuntu and Kubuntu. More however needs to be done. Two essential tasks are improving the documentation and answering *ALL* questions asked by newbies on lists such as this one. I have already written elsewhere on the documentation issue. In the Debian system, the role of the documentors needs to be enhanced, with among other things a veto role in the approval process. As for answering questions, the Debian organization should ensure that *EVERY* question be answered within a reasonable period of time. The questions which are answered are mostly answered by somebody on the list within 48 hours. Somebody should be designated to see that questions not answered, say within 72 or 96 hours, will be. This person should either answer each question himself or -- more useful -- assign questions for answer to those people in the organization most suitable for each question. I think raju has some good points, but I might add a different perspective. Context: I'm a retired SE (dating from the early 60s) and have a fair knowledge of Unix and scripting, but am new to Linux. You might also call me a Mac elitist :-)) because my favorite development environment is ObjC/Cocoa. I decided on Debian because, in the long run, I think it will be the least restrictive in my playing around with cross platform development using GNUstep. Regarding your so-called BDUs, I think that the commercial packaging of Linux is making great progress. The issue is more likely some measurement of enlightenment relative to the "average" human (attested by many aspects of life). I won't get into the dastardly deeds of Micro$lop, but it does my heart good to see them concerned. History's cycles will not be denied, but end of their own excess. There is more than one way to interpret "can a 100,000 lemmings be wrong." As far as question responsiveness, it takes a combination of sufficient expertise and special talent (i.e. desire, being that talent is a hollow word) to deal with the ambiguities and nuances of posted questions. To my way of thinking, such would take another layer of organization in an already all volunteer populace. Even the better commercial organizations leave this mostly to the user community. I guess what I'm saying is that there are levels of Linux to decide on. If one chooses to jump into the deep end before learning to swim, then one must accept a certain amount of rebuffing (outwardly or by omission). If such is unacceptable, then stick with the more "finished" offerings. In my short experience with Debian, I'm impressed with the average responsiveness of the user community. One of the measures I used in selecting Debian was to peruse the various forums. So ends the sermon of the day :-) Lee C "Pay attention. You don't know what disguise your next teacher will be wearing." -- ? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: No comments (responding to questions on the list)
Ken Heard wrote:
Rafi Gabzu wrote:
Hi ,
In the last two weeks I stopped receiving answers to the questions I
post in this mailing list , till now it was very help full.
What happened ? something that I did ...?
Thanks,
Rafi
I did my own survey of posts to this list and discovered that fully
half of them are never answered. Andrew Cater suggested two
possibilities as to why:
a.) Everyone thought everyone else was going to answer
b.) No one had the appropriate answer.
If someone is not getting an answer to their question it is most
probably a good idea to learn how to ask smart questions. The following
links might help.
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
http://people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/du-guidelines.html
Most probably the reasons are not having a good informative subject
line, not doing a google search, not searching the archives, not
providing enough information to reproduce the problem etc., I highly
doubt that the point b ("no one had the appropriate answer") occurs on
d-u. It is a tremendous knowledge base
As for answering questions, the Debian organization should ensure
that
*EVERY* question be answered within a reasonable period of time. The
questions which are answered are mostly answered by somebody on the list
within 48 hours. Somebody should be designated to see that questions
not answered, say within 72 or 96 hours, will be. This person should
either answer each question himself or -- more useful -- assign
questions for answer to those people in the organization most suitable
for each question.
Time commitment for support? Well, that might happen if someone is
willing to pay. But is a highly optimistic thing to expect from a bunch
of volunteers :-) Heck there is no such time commitment for RC bugs (
http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/ ) , leave alone for the support
of general "help" questions.
raju
--
Kamaraju S Kusumanchi
http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/
http://malayamaarutham.blogspot.com/
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: No comments (responding to questions on the list)
Rafi Gabzu wrote: Hi , In the last two weeks I stopped receiving answers to the questions I post in this mailing list , till now it was very help full. What happened ? something that I did ...? Thanks, Rafi I did my own survey of posts to this list and discovered that fully half of them are never answered. Andrew Cater suggested two possibilities as to why: a.) Everyone thought everyone else was going to answer b.) No one had the appropriate answer. The real question however stems from the nature of Linux itself: an open source, mostly free software developed almost entirely by volunteers. At the moment Linux has the reputation -- probably deserved -- as being for geeks only. As such, it has no more than 3% of the market for operating systems for personal desktop and laptop computers. Now for the question: do the creators and users of Linux want it to expand beyond that 3%? If so, then Linux has to be made useable by the average BDU (brain dead user). A good start in this direction has already been taken: the creation of such distributions as Ubuntu and Kubuntu. More however needs to be done. Two essential tasks are improving the documentation and answering *ALL* questions asked by newbies on lists such as this one. I have already written elsewhere on the documentation issue. In the Debian system, the role of the documentors needs to be enhanced, with among other things a veto role in the approval process. As for answering questions, the Debian organization should ensure that *EVERY* question be answered within a reasonable period of time. The questions which are answered are mostly answered by somebody on the list within 48 hours. Somebody should be designated to see that questions not answered, say within 72 or 96 hours, will be. This person should either answer each question himself or -- more useful -- assign questions for answer to those people in the organization most suitable for each question. -- Ken Heard Research Associate Museum Studies Program University of Toronto, Canada -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: No comments
On Tue, 2005-12-13 at 10:59 +0200, Rafi Gabzu wrote: > What happened ? something that I did ...? You switched to the next level (of difficulty...) :-) -- A powerfull GroupWare, CMS, CRM, ECM: CPS (Open Source & GPL). Opengroupware, SPIP, Plone, PhpBB, JetSpeed... are good: CPS is better. http://www.cps-project.org for downloads & documentation. Free hosting of CPS groupware: http://www.objectis.org. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: No comments
> > > In the last two weeks I stopped receiving answers to the questions > > I > > > post in this mailing list , till now it was very help full. > > > What happened ? something that I did ...? This list has so much traffic that many just skim the subject lines for topics that we can answer or learn from. The best advice I could give would be to write a subject line that is clear and specific. And don't take it personally if you don't get an answer- just rephrase and try again. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: No comments
--- "Andrew M.A. Cater" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, Dec 13, 2005 at 10:59:50AM +0200, Rafi Gabzu wrote: > > Hi , > > In the last two weeks I stopped receiving answers to the questions > I > > post in this mailing list , till now it was very help full. > > What happened ? something that I did ...? > > Thanks, > > Rafi > I don't know but I'm sure that Andy will give you a good answer. ;-) > It may just be that > > a.) Everyone thought everyone else was going to answer > b.) No one had the appropriate answer. > > Don't worry - be happy :) > > Andy > ___ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: No comments
On Tue, Dec 13, 2005 at 10:59:50AM +0200, Rafi Gabzu wrote: > Hi , > In the last two weeks I stopped receiving answers to the questions I > post in this mailing list , till now it was very help full. > What happened ? something that I did ...? > Thanks, > Rafi It may just be that a.) Everyone thought everyone else was going to answer b.) No one had the appropriate answer. Don't worry - be happy :) Andy -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
No comments
Hi , In the last two weeks I stopped receiving answers to the questions I post in this mailing list , till now it was very help full. What happened ? something that I did ...? Thanks, Rafi
