Re: OT? www.donotcall.gov problem
On Thu, Jul 03, 2003 at 03:03:43PM -0500, Alan Shutko wrote: > Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > Caller ID works infrequently between area codes. > > That's not really the problem. Nobody uses Caller ID for this sort of > thing... they have ANI (Automatic Number Identification), which is the > same information the telcos have for billing. That information _does_ > work between area codes and can't be blocked. But ANI can be changed by the PBX on PRI lines. -- Jamin W. Collins To be nobody but yourself when the whole world is trying it's best night and day to make you everybody else is to fight the hardest battle any human being will fight. -- E.E. Cummings -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT? www.donotcall.gov problem
Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > The easy answer is ditch your landline in favor of a cell-phone. It's > illegal to make unsolicted commercial phone calls to cell-phones in > the US, and telemarketers do respect this. Well, they sort of respect it. They'll still call, but they'll hang up really quickly when they hear it's a cell phone, and I _think_ they take it off their list... at least, I don't remember many repeats. But I didn't get a substantial decrease of telemarketer calls on my cell phone till I signed up for the NY do-not-call list. > Caller ID works infrequently between area codes. That's not really the problem. Nobody uses Caller ID for this sort of thing... they have ANI (Automatic Number Identification), which is the same information the telcos have for billing. That information _does_ work between area codes and can't be blocked. However, as someone else may have mentioned, that won't necessarily give the correct phone number in the case of a PBX. Many PBXes show the same phone number on ANI for all outgoing calls, which is correct for billing, but wouldn't let you register your incoming phone number. So the query and confirmation is to help stop that kind of problem, or at least let the user know. -- Alan Shutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - I am the rocks. "Tonight's episode: GAS FOOD LODGING...and MURDER!" -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT? www.donotcall.gov problem
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 05:17:58AM -0600, Paul E Condon wrote: > Yesterday, I attempted to use the new federal (USA) web site for > registering my telephone numbers in the 'do not call' database. I did > not succeed, and I am wondering what is wrong. Let me describe my > experience: The easy answer is ditch your landline in favor of a cell-phone. It's illegal to make unsolicted commercial phone calls to cell-phones in the US, and telemarketers do respect this. > When I did this, the hardware of the telephone system was able to > verify that I was calling from the telephone instrument that I > was registering. But I have a question about this process: > I was required to enter the telephone # manually, and then my > manual entry was checked against what the hardware said. Why? > Why not just have the hardware grab the telephone # and put it > into the database? Caller ID works infrequently between area codes. This is truly annoying for me, the Portland metro area has four area codes in two states: 971 Portland is entirely contained and overlays 503 Northwest Oregon and all calls between the two are local, then across town in Vancouver, Washington we have 260 Southwest Washginton and 564 Vancouver and calls between the two are local. I'm in 503. Occasionally, but very rarely someone with one of the other area codes appears on my caller ID, the rest of the time it doesn't appear. My buddy's got his cell phone in 971. 971 and 564 are both fairly rare, but almost nobody shows up on his caller ID. > (Yes, I use ppp to my ISP, but surely they can't query the ISP server > to find out which telephone I'm using to call the ISP, and surely it > should be possible to register if ones internet connection is entirely > independent of ones telephone service. ???) Even if your ISP keeps track of this, I doubt they're going to go through the effort of facilitating this without being served a search warrant. This is a Good Thing(tm). - -- .''`. Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> : :' :proud Debian admin and user `. `'` `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/A/pUJ5vLSqVpK2kRAvLfAJsE+STKADkrnPBY8zgGTGrmLY3ydwCfVucN H4yhabgEwsuh3770MZASNqE= =A8yw -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT? www.donotcall.gov problem
> > And what relation does my email address have to my telephone #? What > > are they checking in my email that has any relation to my telephone? > > (Yes, I use ppp to my ISP, but surely they can't query the ISP server > > to find out which telephone I'm using to call the ISP, and surely it > > should be possible to register if ones internet connection is entirely > > independent of ones telephone service. ???) > > None. They send you a confirmation request that contains a link that > you must click on. Sort of like some mailing lists use to confirm > subscription. however if you start getting 'vote for __' and 'donate to the ___ party' emails, you will have an idea where they got the list :-) -- The state of innocence contains the germs of all future sin. -- Alexandre Arnoux, "Etudes et caprices" -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT? www.donotcall.gov problem
On Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 05:17:58AM -0600, Paul E Condon wrote: Here's the parts I can answer right now : | I did succeed in registering by using the telephone and calling | 1-888-382-1222. | When I did this, the hardware of the telephone system was able to | verify that I was calling from the telephone instrument that I | was registering. But I have a question about this process: | I was required to enter the telephone # manually, and then my | manual entry was checked against what the hardware said. Why? | Why not just have the hardware grab the telephone # and put it | into the database? Perhaps (and this is just speculation) it is a form of double-checking or a safeguard against some sort of proxy. I'm sure the answer lies in redundancy or security one way or another. | And what relation does my email address have to my telephone #? The only relatiionship is validating the information sent via the web form. You are used to seeing this sort of double-checking when subscribing to a mailing list. However, I doubt this is a very good check in this case. -D -- It took the computational power of three Commodore 64s to fly to the moon. It takes at least a 486 to run Windows 95. Something is wrong here. http://dman13.dyndns.org/~dman/ pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: OT? www.donotcall.gov problem
I'd suspect Galeon - I had no problem registering with Mozilla-Firebird. --Todd -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT? www.donotcall.gov problem
Paul E Condon wrote: I am using Galeon web browser and mutt MUA. Does gov require Windoze software on my computer? Has anyone succeeded in registering with a Debian machine? I'm running Libranet 2.8 (Debian based distro), and had no problem registering with Mozilla. Steve Kist -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT? www.donotcall.gov problem
This is WAY off topic. On Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 05:17:58AM -0600, Paul E Condon wrote: > Yesterday, I attempted to use the new federal (USA) web site for > registering my telephone numbers in the 'do not call' database. I did > not succeed, and I am wondering what is wrong. Let me describe my > experience: > > The web site displays a form on which I am requested to fill in the > telephone numbers that I want added to the list, AND a space where I > am to enter my email address. I followed the instructions. I entered > three telephone #s, and one of my four email addresses. In a few > seconds, three emails arrived in my inbox. Each of them, requested > that I click on a hotlink to visit a web site that would complete > the registration process. I did this for each email. > > In all three cases there was an almost immediate response that the > data was incorrect, and no indication as to how I might make it > correct. I am using Galeon web browser and mutt MUA. Does gov > require Windoze software on my computer? Has anyone succeeded in > registering with a Debian machine? Yep. Firebird, qmail, courier-imap, and mutt worked first try. > I did succeed in registering by using the telephone and calling > 1-888-382-1222. > When I did this, the hardware of the telephone system was able to > verify that I was calling from the telephone instrument that I > was registering. But I have a question about this process: > I was required to enter the telephone # manually, and then my > manual entry was checked against what the hardware said. Why? > Why not just have the hardware grab the telephone # and put it > into the database? Because there's no guarantee that the number you are calling from is the number you want entered into the database. Plus, it's possible that you don't even know the number that is being sent to the outside world from the handset you're dialing from. > And what relation does my email address have to my telephone #? What > are they checking in my email that has any relation to my telephone? > (Yes, I use ppp to my ISP, but surely they can't query the ISP server > to find out which telephone I'm using to call the ISP, and surely it > should be possible to register if ones internet connection is entirely > independent of ones telephone service. ???) None. They send you a confirmation request that contains a link that you must click on. Sort of like some mailing lists use to confirm subscription. -- Jamin W. Collins Remember, root always has a loaded gun. Don't run around with it unless you absolutely need it. -- Vineet Kumar -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT? www.donotcall.gov problem
At 2003-07-02T11:17:58Z, Paul E Condon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Why not just have the hardware grab the telephone # and put it into the > database? Think of it as a double-verification system. That way, they can say that you explicitly and knowingly requested for that number to be added; you didn't accidentally pick up the wrong phone in your house and dial. > And what relation does my email address have to my telephone #? Absolutely none. It does, however, give a rudimentary way to link to a real person. Imagine if you'd fraudulently added a number (say, by writing a script to add all phone numbers in your area code). The Feds know that the verification email went to a particular address, and could theoretically subpeona that email server's logs to see where you were coming from. Could it be fooled? Of course! Is it more hassle than the typical skript-kiddie is likely to bother with? Sure. -- Kirk Strauser pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: OT? www.donotcall.gov problem
"Paul E Condon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Yesterday, I attempted to use the new federal (USA) web site for > registering my telephone numbers in the 'do not call' database. I did > not succeed, and I am wondering what is wrong. Let me describe my > experience: > > The web site displays a form on which I am requested to fill in the > telephone numbers that I want added to the list, AND a space where I > am to enter my email address. I followed the instructions. I entered > three telephone #s, and one of my four email addresses. In a few > seconds, three emails arrived in my inbox. Each of them, requested > that I click on a hotlink to visit a web site that would complete > the registration process. I did this for each email. > > In all three cases there was an almost immediate response that the > data was incorrect, and no indication as to how I might make it > correct. I am using Galeon web browser and mutt MUA. Does gov > require Windoze software on my computer? Has anyone succeeded in > registering with a Debian machine? I saw the same thing when I didn't paste the link in the email correctly. I use emacs+gnus for email and when I selected the link in the email, via X's selection mechanism, it included the "\" character, which is used in emacs to indicate a line wrap. After I removed that character from the link I had pasted into Galeon I was able to register all three of the phone #'s I requested. So, perhaps you didn't paste the link correctly. > I did succeed in registering by using the telephone and calling > 1-888-382-1222. > When I did this, the hardware of the telephone system was able to > verify that I was calling from the telephone instrument that I > was registering. But I have a question about this process: > I was required to enter the telephone # manually, and then my > manual entry was checked against what the hardware said. Why? > Why not just have the hardware grab the telephone # and put it > into the database? Perhaps you can register numbers other than the one you're calling from, with some other type of verifaction? Dunno. You'd really have to ask them. > And what relation does my email address have to my telephone #? What > are they checking in my email that has any relation to my telephone? > (Yes, I use ppp to my ISP, but surely they can't query the ISP server > to find out which telephone I'm using to call the ISP, and surely it > should be possible to register if ones internet connection is entirely > independent of ones telephone service. ???) It's probably just another traceability issue. I'm sure the tele-marketing industry was able to at least convince the FTC to have some means to verify that you actually signed up for the DNC list and just didn't sign up every number in your local phone book for the list. What's to stop someone from writing a little script to query every number on record, via something like switchboard.com, and entering all the numbers into the database? The tele-marketers probably wanted some way to ensure that this didn't happen and so the software probably has a check that disallows more than a certain number of phone numbers from being registered via the same email address. Again, you'd have to ask the government if you want anything more than just guesses. Gary -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
OT? www.donotcall.gov problem
Yesterday, I attempted to use the new federal (USA) web site for registering my telephone numbers in the 'do not call' database. I did not succeed, and I am wondering what is wrong. Let me describe my experience: The web site displays a form on which I am requested to fill in the telephone numbers that I want added to the list, AND a space where I am to enter my email address. I followed the instructions. I entered three telephone #s, and one of my four email addresses. In a few seconds, three emails arrived in my inbox. Each of them, requested that I click on a hotlink to visit a web site that would complete the registration process. I did this for each email. In all three cases there was an almost immediate response that the data was incorrect, and no indication as to how I might make it correct. I am using Galeon web browser and mutt MUA. Does gov require Windoze software on my computer? Has anyone succeeded in registering with a Debian machine? I did succeed in registering by using the telephone and calling 1-888-382-1222. When I did this, the hardware of the telephone system was able to verify that I was calling from the telephone instrument that I was registering. But I have a question about this process: I was required to enter the telephone # manually, and then my manual entry was checked against what the hardware said. Why? Why not just have the hardware grab the telephone # and put it into the database? And what relation does my email address have to my telephone #? What are they checking in my email that has any relation to my telephone? (Yes, I use ppp to my ISP, but surely they can't query the ISP server to find out which telephone I'm using to call the ISP, and surely it should be possible to register if ones internet connection is entirely independent of ones telephone service. ???) Thanks for any comments, speculations, on this puzzle. -- Paul E Condon [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
