Re: On systemd, raspbian and off-topics [was: systemdq]

2019-12-31 Thread tomas 
On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 02:08:17PM +0900, 황병희 wrote:
> > I actually do enjoy off-topic tangents, and [...]
> 
> Me too, happy new year tomás ^^^

Happy new year to yo, too (and to all others here). May your dreams
come true, whether you like systemd or not :-)

Cheers
-- t


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Re: On systemd, raspbian and off-topics [was: systemdq]

2019-12-30 Thread 황병희 
> I actually do enjoy off-topic tangents, and [...]

Me too, happy new year tomás ^^^

Sincerely, Byung-Hee from South Korea

-- 
^고맙습니다 _地平天成_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: On systemd, raspbian and off-topics [was: systemdq]

2019-12-30 Thread Andrei POPESCU 
On Lu, 30 dec 19, 10:01:55, Gene Heskett wrote:
> But it sure would be nice if the manpages were a little more obvious. 
> :) Options seem to be well explained but commonly used examples that 
> one can play with to learn how it works are thin. A good tut that 
> passed as a manpage would likely reduce the objection chatter a lot by 
> showing that it can be a better way to do things.

For a quick start you only need 'systemctl' with the 'status', 'start', 
'stop', 'restart', 'reload', 'enable' and 'disable' commands, possibly 
also 'mask' (didn't need it so far, 'disable' was always sufficient when 
applied correctly[1]).

The man page for 'systemctl' has a detailed example for the 'status' 
command, the only one where the output is not so easy to understand at 
first look.

For more advanced stuff the wiki pages on systemd seem to be a good 
start[2].

[1] a service can also be enabled via a .socket unit and systemd does 
warn if you only disable the .service unit for a service that also has a 
.socket unit.

[2] https://wiki.debian.org/systemd


Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: On systemd, raspbian and off-topics [was: systemdq]

2019-12-30 Thread tomas 
On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 11:34:43PM +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Lu, 30 dec 19, 10:23:27, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 06:57:12PM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > 
> > > Chasing us off from asking raspbian related questions here, is a lost 
> > > cause because [...]
> > 
> > Please, don't misrepresent me. I *never* "chased anyone off" from
> > asking raspbian [...]

> At the very least posters should state it's not Debian and not send us 
> on possibly wild goose chases.

On this, we do agree fully. It's minimum courtesy, I'd say.

Cheers
-- t


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Re: On systemd, raspbian and off-topics [was: systemdq]

2019-12-30 Thread Andrei POPESCU 
On Lu, 30 dec 19, 10:23:27, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 06:57:12PM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> 
> > Chasing us off from asking raspbian related questions here, is a lost 
> > cause because [...]
> 
> Please, don't misrepresent me. I *never* "chased anyone off" from
> asking raspbian. On the contrary: I think fringe-Deian questions
> to be on topic here, to get a feel on how different Debian derivatives
> relate to each other. But I know there are people who disagree.

At the very least posters should state it's not Debian and not send us 
on possibly wild goose chases.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: On systemd, raspbian and off-topics [was: systemdq]

2019-12-30 Thread Celejar 
On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 10:23:27 +0100
 wrote:

> On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 06:57:12PM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Sunday 29 December 2019 17:19:06 to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > Unforch Tomas, we are not likely to see any progress toward acceptance of 
> > systemd [...]
> 
> I'm not asking for "acceptance of systemd" or something (FWIW I
> still run a systemd-free Debian Buster here, for a reason!). I'm
> asking for a polite, civilised way of treating each other. And
> hopin this "LP" (sic!) bashing stops. Just treat each other civilly.
> 
> Is that that hard?

+10

I really appreciate this attitude. I rather like systemd myself,
although I have much less expertise in this sort of low-level system
maintenance than you and many others have.

...

> What I really do care for is (a) to express disagreement in a civil
> manner (you don't like systemd? just don't use it, even better: help
> others with your experience. But don't mention LP [1] at every turn
> in the discussion as if he were the Devil incarnate. This is so wrong
> on so many accounts that I don't know where to start). And (b)
> always think that there are ~3000 readers of this list, so do fix
> your subjects when swerving off-topic. And, oh, (c) accept that there
> are other views, and that (gasp!) they might be right.

+10

Celejar

Re: On systemd, raspbian and off-topics [was: systemdq]

2019-12-30 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Monday 30 December 2019 04:23:27 to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 06:57:12PM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Sunday 29 December 2019 17:19:06 to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > Unforch Tomas, we are not likely to see any progress toward
> > acceptance of systemd [...]
>
> I'm not asking for "acceptance of systemd" or something (FWIW I
> still run a systemd-free Debian Buster here, for a reason!). I'm
> asking for a polite, civilised way of treating each other. And
> hopin this "LP" (sic!) bashing stops. Just treat each other civilly.
>
> Is that that hard?
>
> > Chasing us off from asking raspbian related questions here, is a
> > lost cause because [...]
>
> Please, don't misrepresent me. I *never* "chased anyone off" from
> asking raspbian. On the contrary: I think fringe-Deian questions
> to be on topic here, to get a feel on how different Debian derivatives
> relate to each other. But I know there are people who disagree.
>
> [about off-topic tangents]
>
> > I don't like it, helpfull folks like you don't like it. But thats
> > how it actually works.
>
> I actually do enjoy off-topic tangents, and think they belong into
> such general mailing lists as this. If it deviates too far from my
> interests, I just bow out politelly.
>
> What I really do care for is (a) to express disagreement in a civil
> manner (you don't like systemd? just don't use it, even better: help
> others with your experience. But don't mention LP [1] at every turn
> in the discussion as if he were the Devil incarnate. This is so wrong
> on so many accounts that I don't know where to start). And (b)
> always think that there are ~3000 readers of this list, so do fix
> your subjects when swerving off-topic. And, oh, (c) accept that there
> are other views, and that (gasp!) they might be right.
>
> Cheers
>
> [1] he's writing free software for you & me to use as we wish,
>after all, no?
>
> -- tomás

You and I agree that offtopic is still educational which is as it should 
be as long as its still linux. Seeing new stuff mentioned here can and 
has led to some very helpfull learning. And while I disagree with the 
manner that systemd has been bleeding into linux, my attack of the 
author was out of place. My apologies. But it sure would be nice if the 
manpages were a little more obvious. :) Options seem to be well 
explained but commonly used examples that one can play with to learn how 
it works are thin. A good tut that passed as a manpage would likely 
reduce the objection chatter a lot by showing that it can be a better 
way to do things.

Take care Tomas

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page

On systemd, raspbian and off-topics [was: systemdq]

2019-12-30 Thread tomas 
On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 06:57:12PM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Sunday 29 December 2019 17:19:06 to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

[...]

> Unforch Tomas, we are not likely to see any progress toward acceptance of 
> systemd [...]

I'm not asking for "acceptance of systemd" or something (FWIW I
still run a systemd-free Debian Buster here, for a reason!). I'm
asking for a polite, civilised way of treating each other. And
hopin this "LP" (sic!) bashing stops. Just treat each other civilly.

Is that that hard?

> Chasing us off from asking raspbian related questions here, is a lost 
> cause because [...]

Please, don't misrepresent me. I *never* "chased anyone off" from
asking raspbian. On the contrary: I think fringe-Deian questions
to be on topic here, to get a feel on how different Debian derivatives
relate to each other. But I know there are people who disagree.

[about off-topic tangents]

> I don't like it, helpfull folks like you don't like it. But thats how it 
> actually works.

I actually do enjoy off-topic tangents, and think they belong into
such general mailing lists as this. If it deviates too far from my
interests, I just bow out politelly.

What I really do care for is (a) to express disagreement in a civil
manner (you don't like systemd? just don't use it, even better: help
others with your experience. But don't mention LP [1] at every turn
in the discussion as if he were the Devil incarnate. This is so wrong
on so many accounts that I don't know where to start). And (b)
always think that there are ~3000 readers of this list, so do fix
your subjects when swerving off-topic. And, oh, (c) accept that there
are other views, and that (gasp!) they might be right.

Cheers

[1] he's writing free software for you & me to use as we wish,
   after all, no?

-- tomás


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