Re: Re: PCI modem suggestions
I have used many Linux distros going back to the mid 90's Red hat, SuSE, and a few FreeBSD tests as well and for me the use of external modems was for the most part a necessity. Multitech (Mt5600series) was one of the best and still is, also I used external Supra data/fax Modems and the USR v.everything as well. But for reasons of desire and neatness I searched pretty hard for a PCI hardware modem that would just work... The one that I am now happy with for almost all of the Linux distros that I have used or made for others is the Zoom 2920 internal PCI hardware Modem It will cost about $80.00 it comes with a 7 year warranty. SuSE Linux 9.0, 9.1, 9.2, and 9.3 see it as both a V.90 56k flex Agere Systems ( lucent ) Venus Modem... and as an _AT modem._ with Novell/Suse linux 10 it is less functional but then again I think that Novell has fubared SuSE anyway. It is as an AT modem that it works (ttyS14) standard hardware configuration on both Intel and AMD motherboards. I am using it now to send this email. In SuSE Linux it locks on and tenaciously stays connected for days if I forget to disconnect. I have built 20+ computers with this great modem. Now I am working _hard_ to make it work in debian (sarge). I have a dual boot Debian (SARGE) and SuSE/novell 9.2 Linux (last great SuSE distro) computer (AMD 3700+ Abit Nvidia MoBO) and I am now well on my way to growing into a debian fanatic for reasons that deal with freedom. I am a newbie to debian and am frustrated at the PCI modem situation. Yes I can use a external... No problem... for me it is the idea of the PCI internal (were I live we truly can't do DSL or cable and the phone is just past two wire telegraph in capabilities) My Western Electric 202- E1 and 634a subset telephone seem to work fine on these phone lines but if I see 8K with the computer I feel like its rockin. :-) I don't know if I must try a new modem Like the USR5610B or move back to a quality external modem or shoot for the moon with space based communications like Directway. Don't know if this helped any but if I get an internal to work I will post again from the debian side. Michael Crock -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PCI modem suggestions
On 4. September 2005 at 2:01PM -0700, Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dave Ewart wrote: [...] > > Perhaps the original poster should explain his motivation for > > requiring an internal PCI modem? > > > > Dave. > > > > > All I want it for is callerid on a sarge based myth system. > > The reason I wanted a PCI modem was because I just got done > buying a serial IR reciever to be used with lirc. I don't think > I should have to recompile a kernel or get things like > setserial to remove the kernel modules that control the serial > port so I can load different serial modules. That just goes > against everything I've ever known about serial. So after > giving up and going back to normal i2c based IR recievers I > kind of decided I didn't want to deal with all the problems of > linux and serial devices. [...] My solution to the problem was to buy a serial modem and a USB serial converter. Actually this combination solved two problems for me: the crappy serial port of my mobo and the horror stories I heard about most USB modems being (allegedly) winmodems in disguise. The serial port always called for a reboot after a power fluctuation that would barely trip the alarm on my UPS. With the serial modem connected to the USB port, I could reset the modem simply by replugging the USB serial converter. (I do remember, when USB serial support first became available for Linux, I had some issues with having to kill my pppd pppd connection before I unplugged.) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PCI modem suggestions
Nuke wrote: My understanding is that a modem that has a controller will work from Linux, with no additional driver, by being associated with an RS232 serial port. This is obviously the COM1 or COM2 if external. If internal, the Linux compatible modem will also have a UART chip so it becomes an additional COM port (COM3?). The controller must accept the Hayes command set (the "AT" commands). As far as I know that's correct. It used to be that external modems would always have the controller on board because obviously they could not be controlled by the ISA/PCI bus. As far as I know ISA bus based modems all work in Linux. Only a few internal modems are still made with controllers, apparently for a bit extra speed. Yes, that's the main difference, the ones with their own controllers tend to perform better and are more robust on poor lines. My mom has three modems, an internal real hardware modem, an external COM port modem, and an internal winmodem (that she bought when she thought the other two had gone to modem heaven). Her line is not the best, and on a good day the winmodem will connect at 28kbits, while the internal hardware modem and the external one both connect at 36kbits and manage to sustain a call for much longer. The other application for the internal "real" modems is for fax servers/voice applications. But now, it's interesting that as you say external USB modems may be just Winmodems. Presumable this is possible because the extra bandwidth allows software control from the PC without too much of a hit on the data transfer rate. But it means that external modems can no longer be "guaranteed" to work with Linux. This surely means, as RS232 types are superceded by USB ones, that the traditional advice to use an external modem with Linux is no longer the cure-all it once was. "Use an external modem" is only half of it, like I said in my earlier post. It should be "use an external *serial port* modem." Here's an example of an external USB modem - this is my kernel messages: Sep 11 20:00:38 theluggage kernel: usb 1-1: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 2 Sep 11 20:00:45 theluggage kernel: slusb: unsupported module, tainting kernel. Sep 11 20:00:45 theluggage kernel: ST7554 USB Modem. Sep 11 20:00:45 theluggage kernel: st7554 probe: cannot initialize device. Sep 11 20:00:45 theluggage kernel: usb_unlink_urb() is deprecated for synchronous unlinks. Use usb_kill_urb() instead. Sep 11 20:00:45 theluggage kernel: Badness in usb_unlink_urb at drivers/usb/core/urb.c:457 Sep 11 20:00:45 theluggage kernel: [] usb_unlink_urb+0x7a/0x80 [usbcore] Sep 11 20:00:45 theluggage kernel: [] st7554_probe+0x3a7/0x450 [slusb] Sep 11 20:00:45 theluggage kernel: [] usb_probe_interface+0x4a/0x60 [usbcore] Sep 11 20:00:45 theluggage kernel: [] driver_probe_device+0x21/0x60 Sep 11 20:00:45 theluggage kernel: [] driver_attach+0x4d/0x80 Sep 11 20:00:45 theluggage kernel: [] bus_add_driver+0x6d/0xa0 Sep 11 20:00:45 theluggage kernel: [] driver_register+0x28/0x30 Sep 11 20:00:45 theluggage kernel: [] class_simple_create+0x42/0x60 Sep 11 20:00:45 theluggage kernel: [] usb_register+0x40/0x90 [usbcore] Sep 11 20:00:45 theluggage kernel: [] st7554_modem_init+0x50/0xac [slusb] Sep 11 20:00:45 theluggage kernel: [] sys_init_module+0x104/0x180 Sep 11 20:00:45 theluggage kernel: [] sysenter_past_esp+0x52/0x79 Sep 11 20:00:45 theluggage kernel: ST7554 USB Modem: probe of 1-1:1.0 failed with error -12 Sep 11 20:00:45 theluggage kernel: usbcore: registered new driver ST7554 USB Modem and this is what lshal tells me: udi = '/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/usb_usb_device_483_7554_200_-1_noserial_0' info.udi = '/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/usb_usb_device_483_7554_200_-1_noserial_0' (string) info.product = 'USB Communications Interface' (string) usb.interface.subclass = 128 (0x80) (int) usb.interface.protocol = 255 (0xff) (int) usb.interface.number = 0 (0x0) (int) usb.interface.class = 2 (0x2) (int) usb.configuration_value = 1 (0x1) (int) usb.device_class = 2 (0x2) (int) usb.device_protocol = 0 (0x0) (int) usb.device_subclass = 0 (0x0) (int) usb.max_power = 100 (0x64) (int) usb.num_configurations = 1 (0x1) (int) usb.num_interfaces = 1 (0x1) (int) usb.device_revision_bcd = 512 (0x200) (int) usb.is_self_powered = false (bool) usb.can_wake_up = true (bool) usb.product_id = 30036 (0x7554) (int) usb.vendor_id = 1155 (0x483) (int) usb.vendor = 'SGS Thomson Microelectronics' (string) usb.product = '56k SoftModem' (string) usb.bus_number = 1 (0x1) (int) usb.port_number = 1 (0x1) (int) usb.level_number = 1 (0x1) (int) usb.linux.device_number = 2 (0x2) (int) usb.linux.parent_number = 2 (0x2) (int) usb.num_ports = 0 (0x0) (int) usb.speed_bcd = 4608 (0x1200) (int) usb.version_bcd = 256 (0x100) (int) info.parent = '/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/usb_device_483_7554_200_-1_noserial' (string) usb.linux.sysfs_path
Re: Re: PCI modem suggestions
Hans du Plooy wrote : >External USB modems are often no more than the usual winmodem in a shell. That's interesting, I did not know that. My understanding is that a modem that has a controller will work from Linux, with no additional driver, by being associated with an RS232 serial port. This is obviously the COM1 or COM2 if external. If internal, the Linux compatible modem will also have a UART chip so it becomes an additional COM port (COM3?). The controller must accept the Hayes command set (the "AT" commands). It used to be that external modems would always have the controller on board because obviously they could not be controlled by the ISA/PCI bus. Therefore external COM port modems were "guaranteed" to work with Linux. OTOH almost all internal modems from the late 1990's, because they are on the PC bus, can be, and *are*, controlled from a software driver - to save the cost of the controller chip (and a licence fee to Hayes?). This driver is usually only available for Windows. Earlier internal modems (think 14400 baud, ISA slot) *did* have their own controller chip. The general change to software controllers occurred about the time that PCs went from ISA to PCI slots, so PCI modems are rare. (But lots of ISA modems on e-Bay.) Hence the traditional advice to use an external modem with Linux. Only a few internal modems are still made with controllers, apparently for a bit extra speed. They are up-market models but *not* specially made for Linux! My Multitech manual waffles on about installing under Windows, but does not even mention Linux. Some seem to be aimed at server applications - ie they are the modem at the other end when you dial in. That's my understanding, anyway. Anyone, please feel to correct me if I am wrong. But now, it's interesting that as you say external USB modems may be just Winmodems. Presumable this is possible because the extra bandwidth allows software control from the PC without too much of a hit on the data transfer rate. But it means that external modems can no longer be "guaranteed" to work with Linux. This surely means, as RS232 types are superceded by USB ones, that the traditional advice to use an external modem with Linux is no longer the cure-all it once was. Presumably the same considerations apply to ADSL adaptors. Nuke PS : Sorry about the proliferation of question marks in my last post. I'm looking into the cause. See if it happens with this post too. Must be my internal modem corrupting it ;-) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PCI modem suggestions
Nuke wrote: Hans du Plooy said :- If* you manage to track them [internal modems] down, the ones that still exsist cost aboutas much as an external serial modem, so why not just get one of those? This reaction is fairly typical when internal modems are mentioned in the Linux world, and, sorry, I don't understand it. No, the typical reaction is: "windmodems are crap, buy an external modem." Which is not what I said, and which is half a truth any way. External USB modems are often no more than the usual winmodem in a shell. Some winmodems do work very well in linux. The Lucent modem in my notebook hasn't given me any problems and performance is good. Conexant HSF modems work very well too. But the OP said he doesn't want to bother with installing drivers, so these are not options. What I said was that proper hardware PCI modems are not so easy to come by (damn near impossible where I live), and proper external modems can be had for about the same price, so why bother? Hans -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PCI modem suggestions
I use a Multitech MT5634ZPX-PCI. It is not a WinModem - it is quality kit with an on board controller, which is what an internal modem needs for Linux. Hans du Plooy said :- >If* you manage to track them [internal modems] down, the ones that still >exsist cost aboutas much as an external serial modem, so why not just get >one of those? This reaction is fairly typical when internal modems are mentioned in the Linux world, and, sorry, I don't understand it. I remember when hard drives first came out for home computers like my Amstrad 8256. They were external boxes sitting on the desk next to the system unit, with their own power supply in yet another box, which needed a separate mains supply. Wires and boxes all over the desk. Who would dream of an external hard drive today? That's why there are bays and expansion slots in your system unit - to add devices such as drives and modems in a tidy and self-contained manner. So why are external modems still made? Surely not just for the Linux user base? You think I use an internal to save cost? The Multitech above cost about 110 GB Pounds - I could have got a decent external one for about 40. Don't ask me why the cost difference, but I would guess it's just marketing. What I want is to avoid another rats nest of wires, boxes, and mains leads - I have enough of those on/under/around my desk already. Nuke
Re: PCI modem suggestions
Dave Ewart wrote: On Sunday, 04.09.2005 at 12:35 +0200, Hans du Plooy wrote: Is there any PCI modems that will just work with a stock debian sarge kernel 2.6.8? *If* you manage to track them down, the ones that still exsist cost about as much as an external serial modem, so why not just get one of those? And perform much better, probably too. Perhaps the original poster should explain his motivation for requiring an internal PCI modem? Dave. All I want it for is callerid on a sarge based myth system. The reason I wanted a PCI modem was because I just got done buying a serial IR reciever to be used with lirc. I don't think I should have to recompile a kernel or get things like setserial to remove the kernel modules that control the serial port so I can load different serial modules. That just goes against everything I've ever known about serial. So after giving up and going back to normal i2c based IR recievers I kind of decided I didn't want to deal with all the problems of linux and serial devices. Yes, I know, the i2c based IR recievers should be far far 'harder' to get working than a serial device. But they aren't, they are a lot easier than anything that connects to a db25 port on linux. Appearently.. From what I understood of serial interfaces, I always thought you juse used a common uart controller and ran different commands at it. Letting the thing on the other end to respond to whatever you sent at it... But I guess thats not true somehow with linux or lirc. Debians lirc packages cannot be described as anything less than a 'blithering mess' so maybe its just them. -Mike -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PCI modem suggestions
On Sunday 04 September 2005 03:30 am, Mike wrote: > Is there any PCI modems that will just work with a stock debian sarge > kernel 2.6.8? Sufficiently ground, most internal modems will make some pretty horrible coffee, but still better than they do a modem. Just get a plain old external serial modem, way easier to deal with and not as likely to send some huge surge directly to your motherboard in a lightning storm. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PCI modem suggestions
Mike wrote: Is there any PCI modems that will just work with a stock debian sarge kernel 2.6.8? I agree with Bob. I'd get a USR 5610B modem if you must have a PCI modem. They're fairly pricey but it's worth the money. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PCI modem suggestions
On Sunday 04 September 2005 06:30 am, Mike wrote: > Is there any PCI modems that will just work with a stock debian sarge > kernel 2.6.8? Like does newegg sell any modems that will just work > without a huge hassle of tracking down a driver or some add-on crappy > binary from some company who doesn't want to open the source to their > obsolete analog modulation technology? I just want to plug it in and be > able to use it on a PCI bus given my kernel version and the fact that it > is debian stock. I don't care what the price is. The USR5610B is superb. I've used it and recommended it many times. It's pricey, but it performs well and is wel suported. If I didn't have my external Courier vEverything, that's the modem I'd use. -- ...Rob Return address is obfuscated. You can reach me via robslaptop (at) gmail dot com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PCI modem suggestions
On Sunday, 04.09.2005 at 12:35 +0200, Hans du Plooy wrote: > > Is there any PCI modems that will just work with a stock debian > > sarge kernel 2.6.8? > > *If* you manage to track them down, the ones that still exsist cost > about as much as an external serial modem, so why not just get one of > those? And perform much better, probably too. Perhaps the original poster should explain his motivation for requiring an internal PCI modem? Dave. -- Please don't CC me on list messages! ... Dave Ewart - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] All email from me is now digitally signed, key from http://www.sungate.co.uk/ Fingerprint: AEC5 9360 0A35 7F66 66E9 82E4 9E10 6769 CD28 DA92 signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: PCI modem suggestions
> Is there any PCI modems that will just work with a stock debian sarge > kernel 2.6.8? *If* you manage to track them down, the ones that still exsist cost about as much as an external serial modem, so why not just get one of those? Hans -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
PCI modem suggestions
Is there any PCI modems that will just work with a stock debian sarge kernel 2.6.8? Like does newegg sell any modems that will just work without a huge hassle of tracking down a driver or some add-on crappy binary from some company who doesn't want to open the source to their obsolete analog modulation technology? I just want to plug it in and be able to use it on a PCI bus given my kernel version and the fact that it is debian stock. I don't care what the price is. http://www.newegg.com/ProductSort/Subcategory.asp?Subcategory=18 I just need it to pop up callerid for mythnotify and I have zero experience with analog modems on linux past knowing that almost none of them work because they are winmodems. P.S. I already know about the linmodems website... You don't need to reply with the link to it telling me to go there. A simple, 'get this one', with a link to newegg will suffice Thanks! -Mike -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
