Re: Patching a kernel source --verbose
On Sat, Aug 12, 2006 at 08:44:29PM -0400, Matej Cepl wrote: > Roberto C. Sanchez wrote: > > I use the symlinks /boot/vmlinuz, /boot/initrd.img, /boot/vmlinuz.old > > and /boot/initrd.img.old to point to my current and previous kernels. > > These are listed in my menu.lst. Whenever I update the kernel, if > > /sbin/update-grub is run, it helpfully replaces those with whatever it > > finds. Usually, /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.8-3-k7 and the like. That is not > > what I want :-) Though, there seems to be no easy way of getting it > > recognize that it should use the symlinks, so I have just disabled > > running update-grub on a kernel install or upgrade. > > Try to fiddle with /etc/kernel-img.conf and /etc/kernel-pkg.conf (both of > which have their manpages), I think you can make it behave as you want. > I did. I have disabled any action after installing/upgrading a kernel :-) -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sanchez http://familiasanchez.net/~roberto signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Patching a kernel source --verbose
Roberto C. Sanchez wrote: > I use the symlinks /boot/vmlinuz, /boot/initrd.img, /boot/vmlinuz.old > and /boot/initrd.img.old to point to my current and previous kernels. > These are listed in my menu.lst. Whenever I update the kernel, if > /sbin/update-grub is run, it helpfully replaces those with whatever it > finds. Usually, /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.8-3-k7 and the like. That is not > what I want :-) Though, there seems to be no easy way of getting it > recognize that it should use the symlinks, so I have just disabled > running update-grub on a kernel install or upgrade. Try to fiddle with /etc/kernel-img.conf and /etc/kernel-pkg.conf (both of which have their manpages), I think you can make it behave as you want. Matej -- GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/blog/, Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 23 Marion St. #3, (617) 876-1259, ICQ 132822213 A day without sunshine is like night. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Patching a kernel source --verbose
At 1155222171 past the epoch, Chuckk Hubbard wrote: > I'm a little confused why, when I enter: > Hammertime:/home/chuckk/Desktop/kernel/new/linux-2.6.17-mm6# > patch --verbose -p1 ../2.6.17-mm6 > > the terminal sits idle, apparently indefinitely. As other(s) have mentioned, you need to add -i or pipe the patch into the patch program. Note however that the -mm patches are not against 2.6.x but the latest kernel release, e.g. 2.6.18-rc3-mm2 is a patch against 2.6.18-rc3, not 2-6.18. The error messages you are getting are probably a result of mismatching the -mm patches against the kernels. the -rc3 patches are against the base kernel however, so 2.6.18-rc3 applies to 2.6.17 (not 2.6.17.8). Finally, -mm is pretty damn unstable ;) Make sure you've backed up any important data on the machine before relying on an -mm kernel. -- Jon Dowland http://alcopop.org/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Patching a kernel source --verbose
On Sat, Aug 12, 2006 at 12:43:08PM +0930, Arthur Marsh wrote: > > I've wanted to have the automated tools to work for me, so I backed up > /boot/grub/menu.lst, then read the manual page for update-grub before > running it, observing the differences between the backed-up copy and the > automatically updated copy and seeing what needed to be tweaked. > > For instance in my > > ### BEGIN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST > > ## ## Start Default Options ## > > section I have (amongst other things) > > # kopt=root=/dev/hda5 ro > # kopt_2_6_17_1_686=root=/dev/hda5 ro noisapnp > # kopt_2_6_17=root=/dev/hda5 ro noisapnp > > # memtest86=true > > which are read by update-grub (even though the line starts with #) to > rewrite menu.lst to boot the kernel with "noisapnp" in effect, and to > create the memtest grub option: > > title Debian GNU/Linux, kernel memtest86+ > root(hd0,4) > kernel /boot/memtest86+.bin > boot > I use the symlinks /boot/vmlinuz, /boot/initrd.img, /boot/vmlinuz.old and /boot/initrd.img.old to point to my current and previous kernels. These are listed in my menu.lst. Whenever I update the kernel, if /sbin/update-grub is run, it helpfully replaces those with whatever it finds. Usually, /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.8-3-k7 and the like. That is not what I want :-) Though, there seems to be no easy way of getting it recognize that it should use the symlinks, so I have just disabled running update-grub on a kernel install or upgrade. -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sanchez http://familiasanchez.net/~roberto signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Patching a kernel source --verbose
Roberto C. Sanchez wrote: On Fri, Aug 11, 2006 at 01:18:30PM +0930, Arthur Marsh wrote: The memtest86+ package installs as a grub option, so one doesn't need a separate boot image on CD to run it. True, but from a user-friendliness stand point, it is much simpler. I know that grub always destroys my menu.lst whenever it touches it, so I do not trust the authomated tools to update it or change it. Regards, -Roberto I've wanted to have the automated tools to work for me, so I backed up /boot/grub/menu.lst, then read the manual page for update-grub before running it, observing the differences between the backed-up copy and the automatically updated copy and seeing what needed to be tweaked. For instance in my ### BEGIN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST ## ## Start Default Options ## section I have (amongst other things) # kopt=root=/dev/hda5 ro # kopt_2_6_17_1_686=root=/dev/hda5 ro noisapnp # kopt_2_6_17=root=/dev/hda5 ro noisapnp # memtest86=true which are read by update-grub (even though the line starts with #) to rewrite menu.lst to boot the kernel with "noisapnp" in effect, and to create the memtest grub option: title Debian GNU/Linux, kernel memtest86+ root(hd0,4) kernel /boot/memtest86+.bin boot Arthur. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Patching a kernel source --verbose
On 8/10/06, Roberto C. Sanchez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Thu, Aug 10, 2006 at 10:26:40PM -0400, Chuckk Hubbard wrote: > Unfortunately, Linux has completely frozen up on me four times in a > row while running #make-kpkg. Different patches each time, and > different spots each time. I'll have to figure this out when I don't > have deadlines. Sadly, I think it's WinXP for now. > Thanks for your help. > -Chuckk > Your system freezing up may be indicative of a bad memory module. You may want to get a Knoppix CD or DVD and run memtest86. You may also want to check that your fans are running fast enough. Overheating is a frequent cause of lock ups. I think it must be the fans. I made a bootable floppy of memtest86+, and waited an hour and 15 minutes through a couple passes, and cancelled it. My heatsink is really hot, though. I thought it might make a difference if I powered down until it was cold, then booted up and compiled, but nope. I also recall when I was compiling a kernel before that I got messages and beeps every few seconds about temperature and running slow or something. I'm now running a kernel I compiled from that one, so I must have changed something. I'll see what happens if I go again with the former kernel. Thanks. -Chuckk -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Patching a kernel source --verbose
On Fri, Aug 11, 2006 at 01:18:30PM +0930, Arthur Marsh wrote: > > The memtest86+ package installs as a grub option, so one doesn't need a > separate boot image on CD to run it. > True, but from a user-friendliness stand point, it is much simpler. I know that grub always destroys my menu.lst whenever it touches it, so I do not trust the authomated tools to update it or change it. Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sanchez http://familiasanchez.net/~roberto signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Patching a kernel source --verbose
Roberto C. Sanchez wrote: On Thu, Aug 10, 2006 at 10:26:40PM -0400, Chuckk Hubbard wrote: Unfortunately, Linux has completely frozen up on me four times in a row while running #make-kpkg. Different patches each time, and different spots each time. I'll have to figure this out when I don't have deadlines. Sadly, I think it's WinXP for now. Thanks for your help. -Chuckk Your system freezing up may be indicative of a bad memory module. You may want to get a Knoppix CD or DVD and run memtest86. You may also want to check that your fans are running fast enough. Overheating is a frequent cause of lock ups. Regards, -Roberto The memtest86+ package installs as a grub option, so one doesn't need a separate boot image on CD to run it. Arthur. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Patching a kernel source --verbose
On Thu, Aug 10, 2006 at 10:26:40PM -0400, Chuckk Hubbard wrote: > Unfortunately, Linux has completely frozen up on me four times in a > row while running #make-kpkg. Different patches each time, and > different spots each time. I'll have to figure this out when I don't > have deadlines. Sadly, I think it's WinXP for now. > Thanks for your help. > -Chuckk > Your system freezing up may be indicative of a bad memory module. You may want to get a Knoppix CD or DVD and run memtest86. You may also want to check that your fans are running fast enough. Overheating is a frequent cause of lock ups. Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sanchez http://familiasanchez.net/~roberto signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Patching a kernel source --verbose
Unfortunately, Linux has completely frozen up on me four times in a row while running #make-kpkg. Different patches each time, and different spots each time. I'll have to figure this out when I don't have deadlines. Sadly, I think it's WinXP for now. Thanks for your help. -Chuckk On 8/10/06, Roberto C. Sanchez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Basically, it means that the part of the code the patch applies to appears to have already been patched. This can happen if you have overlapping patches. -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sanchez http://familiasanchez.net/~roberto -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFE25J95SXWIKfIlGQRAiEvAJ4jaqCe1xfdiWebctJU1VjaUm+AAgCfaQF7 n3tJET49gixql6mahXz3LSc= =eNBk -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- "Far and away the best prize that life has to offer is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." -Theodore Roosevelt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Patching a kernel source --verbose
On 8/10/06, Roberto C. Sanchez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Thu, Aug 10, 2006 at 03:47:42PM -0400, Chuckk Hubbard wrote: > > Cool, thank you. > BTW, I know it must seem like the most obvious thing in the world, but > the more I google and search Debian help, the less answers I find... > what do you do when applying two patches tells you: > Reversed (or previously applied) patch detected! Assume -R? [n] > Does that mean the patches are incompatible? I'm actually only > experimenting with the patches, as I can't find a whole lot of info on > the patches either. > Basically, it means that the part of the code the patch applies to appears to have already been patched. This can happen if you have overlapping patches. That makes sense, that's kind of what I figured. So... you just guess which one is more appropriate? -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sanchez http://familiasanchez.net/~roberto -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFE25J95SXWIKfIlGQRAiEvAJ4jaqCe1xfdiWebctJU1VjaUm+AAgCfaQF7 n3tJET49gixql6mahXz3LSc= =eNBk -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- "Far and away the best prize that life has to offer is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." -Theodore Roosevelt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Patching a kernel source --verbose
On Thu, Aug 10, 2006 at 03:47:42PM -0400, Chuckk Hubbard wrote: > > Cool, thank you. > BTW, I know it must seem like the most obvious thing in the world, but > the more I google and search Debian help, the less answers I find... > what do you do when applying two patches tells you: > Reversed (or previously applied) patch detected! Assume -R? [n] > Does that mean the patches are incompatible? I'm actually only > experimenting with the patches, as I can't find a whole lot of info on > the patches either. > Basically, it means that the part of the code the patch applies to appears to have already been patched. This can happen if you have overlapping patches. -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sanchez http://familiasanchez.net/~roberto signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Patching a kernel source --verbose
On 8/10/06, Roberto C. Sanchez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Thu, Aug 10, 2006 at 03:02:51PM -0400, Chuckk Hubbard wrote: > I have linux-2.6.17, trying to patch it with 2.6.17-mm6, > patch-2.6.17-rt8 from Molnar, and bootsplash-3.1.6-2.6.15.diff. > I'm a little confused why, when I enter: > Hammertime:/home/chuckk/Desktop/kernel/new/linux-2.6.17-mm6# patch > --verbose -p1 ../2.6.17-mm6 > > the terminal sits idle, apparently indefinitely. I realize it's a > huge patch, but shouldn't --verbose give me some indication that > something is happening? > You need either of these lines: patch --verbose -p1 -i ../2.6.17-mm6 patch --verbose -p1 < ../2.6.17-mm6 Basically, it does not where to get input unless you supply it on stdin or you give it an input file name. Cool, thank you. BTW, I know it must seem like the most obvious thing in the world, but the more I google and search Debian help, the less answers I find... what do you do when applying two patches tells you: Reversed (or previously applied) patch detected! Assume -R? [n] Does that mean the patches are incompatible? I'm actually only experimenting with the patches, as I can't find a whole lot of info on the patches either. Thanks. -Chuckk -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sanchez http://familiasanchez.net/~roberto -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFE24Oq5SXWIKfIlGQRAlp5AKDDrGjbuafeWsiVPPTxu4Ms2MHS9wCgzmg8 vK+JcJxqgUHSC7OnSOSptNo= =J1Gc -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- "Far and away the best prize that life has to offer is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." -Theodore Roosevelt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Patching a kernel source --verbose
On Thu, Aug 10, 2006 at 03:02:51PM -0400, Chuckk Hubbard wrote: > I have linux-2.6.17, trying to patch it with 2.6.17-mm6, > patch-2.6.17-rt8 from Molnar, and bootsplash-3.1.6-2.6.15.diff. > I'm a little confused why, when I enter: > Hammertime:/home/chuckk/Desktop/kernel/new/linux-2.6.17-mm6# patch > --verbose -p1 ../2.6.17-mm6 > > the terminal sits idle, apparently indefinitely. I realize it's a > huge patch, but shouldn't --verbose give me some indication that > something is happening? > You need either of these lines: patch --verbose -p1 -i ../2.6.17-mm6 patch --verbose -p1 < ../2.6.17-mm6 Basically, it does not where to get input unless you supply it on stdin or you give it an input file name. -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sanchez http://familiasanchez.net/~roberto signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Patching a kernel source --verbose
P.S.- #ps -aux in another terminal shows 0.0 for CPU and memory of the patch operation, if that matters. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Patching a kernel source --verbose
I have linux-2.6.17, trying to patch it with 2.6.17-mm6, patch-2.6.17-rt8 from Molnar, and bootsplash-3.1.6-2.6.15.diff. I'm a little confused why, when I enter: Hammertime:/home/chuckk/Desktop/kernel/new/linux-2.6.17-mm6# patch --verbose -p1 ../2.6.17-mm6 the terminal sits idle, apparently indefinitely. I realize it's a huge patch, but shouldn't --verbose give me some indication that something is happening? -Chuckk -- "Far and away the best prize that life has to offer is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." -Theodore Roosevelt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Patching a Kernel
On Mon, Aug 01, 2005 at 06:36:06PM +0200, Rakotomandimby (R12y) Mihamina wrote: > On Monday 01 August 2005 17:59, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote: > > Patching is easy. > > Not really. I rememeber my beginnings: I never knew where should I have to > 'cd' before applying the patch. > > Then understanding the error messages too. For ewample, patches initially > made > for vanilla kernels may not work on distribution-patched kernels (may be, I > tell). People somtimes have to hack the patch. It's not very, very easy. Hacking the patch may or may not be easy, depending on the complexity. Actually patching is near trivial: - Unpack the source - cd kernel-source-2.x.y - patch -i /path/to/patch -p1 --dry-run (if 1 doesn't work, 0 usually does) - If there a no errors or warnings, then rerun withouth dry-run - configure/compile/install/etc. -Robeto -- Roberto C. Sanchez http://familiasanchez.net/~roberto pgpIVti3BXmIF.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Patching a Kernel
On Monday 01 August 2005 17:59, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote: > Patching is easy. Not really. I rememeber my beginnings: I never knew where should I have to 'cd' before applying the patch. Then understanding the error messages too. For ewample, patches initially made for vanilla kernels may not work on distribution-patched kernels (may be, I tell). People somtimes have to hack the patch. It's not very, very easy. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Patching a Kernel
On Mon, Aug 01, 2005 at 04:44:09PM +0100, Jim Blake wrote: > Sorry Guys...stupid newbie question, but I've been able to avoid doing this > in > the past... > > Is there a good HOWTO available for patching a Kernel. I have a Debian 2.4 > kernel, running in a Shuttle, and have identified a patch which should fix > the > problem I'm seeing (""VDP error: cannot read Vdp Data" messages brought about > by incorrect checksums in the Ethernet adapter) and now I need to install it. > Patching is easy. Typcially you want to unpack the kernel, apply the patch (read the patch man page for details) and then configure the patched kernel. > As a side order...I maintain the system with Synaptic, but if I hack the > kernel, is there a way that I can build the new kernel into a package so that > maintenance doesn't become a series of kernel builds...again, pointers to a > HOWTO would be nice > How to build a kernel Debian-style: http://newbiedoc.sourceforge.net/system/kernel-pkg.html > > Thanks Guys > Jim Blake You're welcome, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sanchez http://familiasanchez.net/~roberto pgpWK3ZhUNWH7.pgp Description: PGP signature
Patching a Kernel
Sorry Guys...stupid newbie question, but I've been able to avoid doing this in the past... Is there a good HOWTO available for patching a Kernel. I have a Debian 2.4 kernel, running in a Shuttle, and have identified a patch which should fix the problem I'm seeing (""VDP error: cannot read Vdp Data" messages brought about by incorrect checksums in the Ethernet adapter) and now I need to install it. As a side order...I maintain the system with Synaptic, but if I hack the kernel, is there a way that I can build the new kernel into a package so that maintenance doesn't become a series of kernel builds...again, pointers to a HOWTO would be nice Thanks Guys Jim Blake -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Patching a kernel.
* Marino Fernandez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [030620 10:20]: > [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/src# bzip2 -dc xfs-2.4.20-all-i38620030114.bz2 | patch -p1 > kernel-source-2.4.20.tar.bz2 Your kernel source is still packed. De-pack it, using "tar -xjvf kernel-source-2.4.20.tar.bz2". You'll get a new directory (either linux-2.4.20 or kernel-source-2.4.20, not sure). Symlink the new directory to linux "ln -s linux", and try the patch again. Yours Sincerely Alexander pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Patching a kernel.
Marino Fernandez verraste ons met de boodschap: > [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/src# bzip2 -dc xfs-2.4.20-all-i38620030114.bz2 | patch -p1 you might want to run 'patch' in the kernel source directory: cd /usr/src ln -sf kernel-source-2.4.20 linux cd linux bzip2 -dc ../xfs-2.4.20-all-i38620030114.bz2 |patch -p1 btw, it's considered a bad habit to play around as root (reminds me of a qoute by Vineet Kumar :-)). after a 'adduser src', you can do all compiling stuff as a regular user. only the 'dpkg -i' part needs root, you can compile kernels as yourself using 'fakeroot make-kpkg [...]'. -- Joris -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Patching a kernel.
On Friday 20 June 2003 12:08 pm, Joerg Johannes wrote: > On Friday 20 June 2003 04:40, Marino Fernandez wrote: > > I've trying to patch a 2.4.20 kernel with the xfs patch. I've have > > some commandline argumants, but I get error mesages. > > It would be interesting to know > 1.) What commands did you use > 2.) What error messages you get > Yes, of course. I got the patches from here. They are gziped files: ftp://oss.sgi.com/projects/xfs/download/patches/ The kernel with apt-get install kernel-source-2.4.20 Patch: xfs-2.4.20-all-i386... kernel: kernel-source-s.4.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/src# bzip2 -dc xfs-2.4.20-all-i38620030114.bz2 | patch -p1 kernel-source-2.4.20.tar.bz2 patching file kernel-source-2.4.20.tar.bz2 Hunk #1 FAILED at 56. Hunk #2 FAILED at 191. Hunk #3 FAILED at 339. 3 out of 3 hunks FAILED -- saving rejects to file kernel-source-2.4.20.tar.bz2.rej can't find file to patch at input line 44 Perhaps you used the wrong -p or --strip option? The text leading up to this was: -- |diff -urNp 2.4.20/Documentation/Configure.help 2.4.20-xfs/Documentation/Configure.help |--- 2.4.20/Documentation/Configure.helpFri Nov 29 11:38:55 2002 |+++ 2.4.20-xfs/Documentation/Configure.helpTue Jan 14 11:44:52 2003 -- @@ -12647,12 +12647,44 @@ CONFIG_VIOCD <-- Line 44 from patch I tried to get the patch from www.xfs.og site, but they are down. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Patching a kernel.
* Marino Fernandez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [030620 04:40]: > I've trying to patch a 2.4.20 kernel with the xfs patch. I've have some > commandline argumants, but I get error mesages. Which commands? Which error messages? Do you use the kernel-patch-xfs package or have you downloaded the patch manually? > Can I use kompare?. Any other suggestions. I havn't used kompare, yet, but the description doesn't sound like something, that is able to patch, just like something to create (limited) patches. Yours Sincerely Alexander pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Patching a kernel.
On Friday 20 June 2003 04:40, Marino Fernandez wrote: > I've trying to patch a 2.4.20 kernel with the xfs patch. I've have > some commandline argumants, but I get error mesages. It would be interesting to know 1.) What commands did you use 2.) What error messages you get Then we might be able to help joerg -- Gib GATES keine Chance! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Patching a kernel.
I've trying to patch a 2.4.20 kernel with the xfs patch. I've have some commandline argumants, but I get error mesages. Can I use kompare?. Any other suggestions. Thanks. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]