Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
On Jo, 09 oct 14, 23:16:33, softwatt wrote: Instead of a mailing list, let there be an IMAP/POP account, let us call it i...@debian.org. However, it isn't a normal IMAP account: - It is public, and not a traditional private imap account. - It accepts all logins, regardless of the password typed. - It is read-only, users cannot directly modify it. - Users can only use it to read, they cannot send mails as i...@debian.org - It serves as the forum. - The topics and sub-topics are simply folders and sub-folders. - In order to read the forum, one simply adds the imap account to one's mail client. - In order to post something new, one simply replies to the relevant post (The FROM is one's own mail, and not i...@debian.org) If you want to go forward with this I would suggest you just do it. If some Debian Developer finds your idea interesting you could even get a domain like imap.debian.net. You could set up several servers/accounts: lists@imap.d.n project@alioth.imap.d.n bugnumber@bugs.imap.d.n (for people that want to follow individual bugs only, since there are also the debian-bugs-* lists) I think you *might* encounter issues with scalability: i.e. IMAP servers are built to handle many clients accessing different mailboxes, not sure how they will handle many clients accessing the *same* mailbox (but then the developers might be interested in fixing the issues ;). Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
On 10/11/2014 01:20 PM, Andrei POPESCU wrote: If you want to go forward with this I would suggest you just do it. If some Debian Developer finds your idea interesting you could even get a domain like imap.debian.net. Yes, I think that's the way to go. People are far more likely to adopt a ready-to-deploy solution than a theoretical proposal. But I'm interesting in hearing more opinions first. You could set up several servers/accounts That is not needed. Different lists can simply be different folders of the same account. IMAP supports ignoring / subscribing to specific folders. IMAP servers are built to handle many clients accessing different mailboxes, not sure how they will handle many clients accessing the *same* mailbox That's a very good point. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
On Sb, 11 oct 14, 15:07:31, softwatt wrote: On 10/11/2014 01:20 PM, Andrei POPESCU wrote: If you want to go forward with this I would suggest you just do it. If some Debian Developer finds your idea interesting you could even get a domain like imap.debian.net. Yes, I think that's the way to go. People are far more likely to adopt a ready-to-deploy solution than a theoretical proposal. But I'm interesting in hearing more opinions first. You could set up several servers/accounts That is not needed. Different lists can simply be different folders of the same account. IMAP supports ignoring / subscribing to specific folders. Yes, I know. The separation I suggested (lists.d.o, lists.alioth.d.o and bugs.d.o) could be necessary because of scalability issues, not only in the server, but also in the clients: - lists.debian.org has 270 lists - bugs.debian.org is quickly approaching 80 bugs - alioth.debian.org hosts 1042 different projects (which may ar may not have one or more lists (there are 124 lists starting with debian- and another 660 lists starting with pkg-). Besides that you also have to consider some kind of message expiration and/or archiving, because even mutt takes a while to access my 'All Mail' folder on Gmail (35000+ messages). Hmm, your proposal could be a great way of reading the archives, especially when combined with something like notmuch for searching :) Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
On 10/09/2014 11:40 PM, Nate Bargmann wrote: Didn't you just describe Usenet? Hmm, I am not sure I have. I have no experience with Usenet, but after some searching, I think that Usenet is a lot more complex than this. Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong though. The main difference I found (quoted from Wikipedia): When a user posts an article, it is initially only available on that user's news server. Each news server talks to one or more other servers (its newsfeeds) and exchanges articles with them. In this fashion, the article is copied from server to server and should eventually reach every server in the network. Also, do any Usenet clients implement PGP? signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
On Thu, 09 Oct 2014 23:24:38 -0400 Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net wrote: Microsoft comes to mind - the run a couple of dozen newsgroups on various support topics (http://support2.microsoft.com/kb/150057) - just point your newsreader at their server. You may be out of date here, Microsoft announced about three years ago they were abandoning Usenet, and as far as I know, they have. The groups still exist, but they're empty now. I used to be active on the Small Business Server group, and that definitely died then, they have moved it all to a web forum system, with voting and point-scoring and much silliness, along with an altered interface every now and then. -- Joe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141010090455.10d5f...@jresid.jretrading.com
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
Personally, I think the 'stack exchange' model is the best one out there at the moment. See for example http://askubuntu.com/. If you aren't familiar with the model, I'd do a bad job of summarizing it, so I won't try; but one facet is that it encourages good *questions* as well as answers. There is an unofficial Debian site which is very similar at http://ask.debian.net/, based on the AGPL software Shapado. Sadly IMHO it's a long way from the quality of the Stack Exchange (closed source) system, at the moment. Ask.d.n also lacks eyeballs. -- Jonathan Dowland -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141010083013.GA26789@debian
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
On Thu, 09 Oct 2014, Miles Fidelman wrote: Gatewaying debian-user to an nntp newsgroup hosted at debian.org might be a nice-to-have. Meanwhile, everything is gated to gmane.org. -- One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond where the shadows lie. -- The Silicon Valley Tarot Henrique Holschuh -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141010105346.ga22...@khazad-dum.debian.net
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
On 10/10/2014 4:04 AM, Joe wrote: On Thu, 09 Oct 2014 23:24:38 -0400 Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net wrote: Microsoft comes to mind - the run a couple of dozen newsgroups on various support topics (http://support2.microsoft.com/kb/150057) - just point your newsreader at their server. You may be out of date here, Microsoft announced about three years ago they were abandoning Usenet, and as far as I know, they have. The groups still exist, but they're empty now. I used to be active on the Small Business Server group, and that definitely died then, they have moved it all to a web forum system, with voting and point-scoring and much silliness, along with an altered interface every now and then. They may be. I don't follow Microsoft newsgroups. I just know they (used to) exist. Jerry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5437c16c.7070...@attglobal.net
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
On 10/10/2014 3:15 AM, softwatt wrote: On 10/09/2014 11:40 PM, Nate Bargmann wrote: Didn't you just describe Usenet? Hmm, I am not sure I have. I have no experience with Usenet, but after some searching, I think that Usenet is a lot more complex than this. Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong though. The main difference I found (quoted from Wikipedia): When a user posts an article, it is initially only available on that user's news server. Each news server talks to one or more other servers (its newsfeeds) and exchanges articles with them. In this fashion, the article is copied from server to server and should eventually reach every server in the network. Yup. It's known as a mesh network. In most cases, it only takes a few minutes for a message to get around the world. I also read this mail list via NNTP (easier to keep track of threads), and often I will get messages on my Usenet server before I get them via email. I just can't respond via the newsgroup. Also, do any Usenet clients implement PGP? Since many of the Usenet clients are also email clients, they implement PHP as well as they do with email. Jerry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5437c2ab.2000...@attglobal.net
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
On 10/10/2014 02:27 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: I also read this mail list via NNTP (easier to keep track of threads) This is perfect for me. But information on the net is scarce and I don't know where to begin. I know that I can access linux.debian.* and read stuff, but that would require a -often paid- Usenet account. Is there an open readonly server specifically for Debian? Mozilla does this (news.mozilla.org) According to: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianMailingLists There are 4 ways to read the list: - Email when subscribed to the list. - A Web browser viewing the archives, which are public. - Usenet with Network News (Transfer|Transport) Protocol, NNTP. - The mail-to-news gateways linux.debian.* I guess my question is how to do the third one. Thanks in advance. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
Joe wrote: On Thu, 09 Oct 2014 23:24:38 -0400 Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net wrote: Microsoft comes to mind - the run a couple of dozen newsgroups on various support topics (http://support2.microsoft.com/kb/150057) - just point your newsreader at their server. You may be out of date here, Microsoft announced about three years ago they were abandoning Usenet, and as far as I know, they have. The groups still exist, but they're empty now. I used to be active on the Small Business Server group, and that definitely died then, they have moved it all to a web forum system, with voting and point-scoring and much silliness, along with an altered interface every now and then. Yeah... I vaguely remember that. I haven't followed them in a while - but it sure did seem to work well. Miles -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5437e6bd.6080...@meetinghouse.net
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
On 10/10/2014 10:01 AM, softwatt wrote: On 10/10/2014 02:27 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: I also read this mail list via NNTP (easier to keep track of threads) This is perfect for me. But information on the net is scarce and I don't know where to begin. I know that I can access linux.debian.* and read stuff, but that would require a -often paid- Usenet account. Is there an open readonly server specifically for Debian? Mozilla does this (news.mozilla.org) According to: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianMailingLists There are 4 ways to read the list: - Email when subscribed to the list. - A Web browser viewing the archives, which are public. - Usenet with Network News (Transfer|Transport) Protocol, NNTP. - The mail-to-news gateways linux.debian.* I guess my question is how to do the third one. Thanks in advance. You don't need to use a paid server. There are plenty of free ones available. Personally, I use eternal-september.com. It's been pretty solid for me and contains all of the newsgroups I want. No binary newsgroups, but I can life with that. You can't post to Debian from there (because it's just a mirror of the mailing list), but you can post to real newsgroups. Jerry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5437ef97.9070...@attglobal.net
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
On Thu, 09 Oct 2014 23:16:33 +0300 softwatt softw...@gmx.com wrote: I have been contemplating the merits of mailing lists and comparing them with those of forums, [snip] If you're really impatient and prefer examples, head to the usage example at the bottom of the mail and skip the rest. Advantages of mailing lists: - Integrated with your mailing client - Filters - Work offline - Builtin PGP support - several others I haven't mentioned, but most of them stem from #1 You missed the biggest 2 advantages of mailing lists: 1) The messages come to you, you don't need to remember to go out to two dozen forums to find your conversations. 2) You don't need to log in to post a reply. I'm on several forums. But invariably, as time goes on, I forget their existence. The day's just too busy to walk around the web visiting groups. SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141010104108.79d01...@mydesq2.domain.cxm
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
On 10/10/2014 05:41 PM, Steve Litt wrote: You missed the biggest 2 advantages of mailing lists: You missed my point entirely. Those two advantages are reserved in my proposal. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
Steve Litt writes: I'm on several forums. But invariably, as time goes on, I forget their existence. The day's just too busy to walk around the web visiting groups. And every forum has a different UI with an extremely primitive editor. -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87wq88rmxv@thumper.dhh.gt.org
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
On 10/10/2014 05:58 PM, softwatt wrote: On 10/10/2014 05:41 PM, Steve Litt wrote: You missed the biggest 2 advantages of mailing lists: You missed my point entirely. Those two advantages are reserved in my proposal. I apologize. You only added some advantages to mailing lists. For some resume I assumed you're talking about disadvantages in my proposal. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
On Fri, 10 Oct 2014 17:58:04 +0300 softwatt softw...@gmx.com wrote: On 10/10/2014 05:41 PM, Steve Litt wrote: You missed the biggest 2 advantages of mailing lists: You missed my point entirely. Those two advantages are reserved in my proposal. OK then... As long as it continues acting like a mailing list and doesn't do anything dumb, it's fine with me --- I won't see the difference. SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141010105946.11647...@mydesq2.domain.cxm
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
On Fri, 10 Oct 2014 18:01:15 +0300 softwatt softw...@gmx.com wrote: On 10/10/2014 05:58 PM, softwatt wrote: On 10/10/2014 05:41 PM, Steve Litt wrote: You missed the biggest 2 advantages of mailing lists: You missed my point entirely. Those two advantages are reserved in my proposal. I apologize. You only added some advantages to mailing lists. For some resume I assumed you're talking about disadvantages in my proposal. You assumed right, because I assumed your proposal wouldn't let me read from my email client and reply from my email client. But since your proposal lets me read from my email client and write from my email client, with no special effort on my part, it's transparent to me. SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141010110128.19315...@mydesq2.domain.cxm
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
There's a sub-question here: How does this proposal compare to Usenet? However, both Usenet and this proposal are superior to mailing lists in all aspects. Feel free to correct me here. Do mailing lists have any advantages in comparison to Usenet/this proposal? signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
On 10/10/2014 06:24 AM, Miles Fidelman wrote: Gatewaying debian-user to an nntp newsgroup hosted at debian.org might be a nice-to-have. Mozilla does this with their mailing lists. They have a readonly, lonely Usenet server at news.mozilla.org. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
On 10/10/2014 05:39 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: You don't need to use a paid server. There are plenty of free ones available. Personally, I use eternal-september.com. It's been pretty solid for me and contains all of the newsgroups I want. No binary newsgroups, but I can life with that. Thanks! Who needs binary newsgroups? A Debian nntp server would have been nice though. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
On Fri, 10 Oct 2014 18:11:16 +0300 softwatt softw...@gmx.com wrote: There's a sub-question here: How does this proposal compare to Usenet? For me, Usenet forums quickly become the stuff I forgot I ever had. Out of sight, out of mind. I don't think I'm alone, either, because a lot of forums have nothing for weeks at a time. However, both Usenet and this proposal are superior to mailing lists in all aspects. Feel free to correct me here. Do mailing lists have any advantages in comparison to Usenet/this proposal? I'll simply reply about mailing lists vs Usenet, without regard to your proposal, which I might not completely understand... I'm on at least 25 mailing lists. If I had to go out to 25 different places to get my information, I'd never get anything done. With mailing lists, posts come to me: I don't need to go searching hither and yon for them. To me, that's why mailing lists are hugely superior to forums. That's also why most free software projects have mailing lists, not forums. SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141010114955.6130b...@mydesq2.domain.cxm
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
Steve Litt wrote: On Fri, 10 Oct 2014 18:11:16 +0300 softwatt softw...@gmx.com wrote: There's a sub-question here: How does this proposal compare to Usenet? For me, Usenet forums quickly become the stuff I forgot I ever had. Out of sight, out of mind. I don't think I'm alone, either, because a lot of forums have nothing for weeks at a time. However, both Usenet and this proposal are superior to mailing lists in all aspects. Feel free to correct me here. Do mailing lists have any advantages in comparison to Usenet/this proposal? I'll simply reply about mailing lists vs Usenet, without regard to your proposal, which I might not completely understand... I'm on at least 25 mailing lists. If I had to go out to 25 different places to get my information, I'd never get anything done. With mailing lists, posts come to me: I don't need to go searching hither and yon for them. To me, that's why mailing lists are hugely superior to forums. That's also why most free software projects have mailing lists, not forums. I'll echo that. I also support a couple of dozen email lists on our servers - the question of forums comes up at least once a year on each one -- and dies for exactly the reason Steve mentions. Though... it's worth pointing out that many email clients also allow for treating both newsgroups and RSS feeds as if they were mail folders - with all the visual indication that new messages have arrived. Then again, I have inboxes for 4 different accounts, auto-filter most of my list traffic into a single lists folder, and about a dozen RSS feeds. I always open the inboxes and list folder (then sort by subject); I generally ignore the RSS feeds - even though they all come to me. -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5438027b.6090...@meetinghouse.net
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
On 10/10/2014 06:59 PM, Miles Fidelman wrote: I'm on at least 25 mailing lists. If I had to go out to 25 different places to get my information, I'd never get anything done. With mailing lists, posts come to me: I don't need to go searching hither and yon for them. Why are you guys treating Usenet and Web forums as if they're one? In Usenet, you can subscribe to whatever you wish and they all come to you. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 06:11:16PM +0300, softwatt wrote: Do mailing lists have any advantages in comparison to Usenet/this proposal? I never managed one, but maybe mailing lists are easier to set up and easier to maintain/moderate. We should listen to what listmasters have to say in this regard. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141010165304.ga3...@x60s.casa
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
softwatt wrote: On 10/10/2014 06:59 PM, Miles Fidelman wrote: I'm on at least 25 mailing lists. If I had to go out to 25 different places to get my information, I'd never get anything done. With mailing lists, posts come to me: I don't need to go searching hither and yon for them. Why are you guys treating Usenet and Web forums as if they're one? In Usenet, you can subscribe to whatever you wish and they all come to you. Ummm we're NOT. We're pointing out a debian-user to USENET gateway does exactly what the OP is asking for. Miles Fidelman -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5438109a.3050...@meetinghouse.net
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
Francesco Ariis wrote: On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 06:11:16PM +0300, softwatt wrote: Do mailing lists have any advantages in comparison to Usenet/this proposal? I never managed one, but maybe mailing lists are easier to set up and easier to maintain/moderate. We should listen to what listmasters have to say in this regard. Mailing lists have LOTS of advantages: - as noted - stuff comes to you - most folks understand mailing lists - USENET is not as common or familiar as it once was - USENET has fewer access controls (absent moderation, anybody can post, and there's really nothing tying an email address to someone's message) - USENET servers are a bit more arcane to administer than list software On the other hand, USENET is great when it comes to message threading, searching, and so forth. Miles Fidelman -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54381188.2070...@meetinghouse.net
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
On 10/10/2014 08:04 PM, Miles Fidelman wrote: - as noted - stuff comes to you That's true in Usenet as well. The remaining points are valid for Usenet. Note however that none of them are valid for my proposal. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
On 10/10/2014 11:30 AM, Jonathan Dowland wrote: Personally, I think the 'stack exchange' model is the best one out there at the moment. I have two problems with that model. - I don't like reward systems, I prefer minimalistic discussion platforms without the fancy stuff - Threaded discussions are impossible. Note that the Reddit model is a mixture of the stackExchange Model + threaded discussions. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 10/10/2014 10:01 AM, softwatt wrote: On 10/10/2014 02:27 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: I also read this mail list via NNTP (easier to keep track of threads) This is perfect for me. But information on the net is scarce and I don't know where to begin. I know that I can access linux.debian.* and read stuff, but that would require a -often paid- Usenet account. Is there an open readonly server specifically for Debian? Mozilla does this (news.mozilla.org) According to: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianMailingLists There are 4 ways to read the list: - Email when subscribed to the list. - A Web browser viewing the archives, which are public. - Usenet with Network News (Transfer|Transport) Protocol, NNTP. - The mail-to-news gateways linux.debian.* I guess my question is how to do the third one. Thanks in advance. You don't need to use a paid server. There are plenty of free ones available. Personally, I use eternal-september.com. It's been pretty solid for me and contains all of the newsgroups I want. No binary newsgroups, but I can life with that. You can't post to Debian from there (because it's just a mirror of the mailing list), but you can post to real newsgroups. Note that a lot of list-to-usenet gateway software can be bi-directional, depending on administrative settings. As someone pointed out, debian-user is gatewayed to gmane - which, in turn, EXPOSES AN NNTP FEED. Point your newsreader at nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.user If this gets to the list, then one can post through it as well. Miles Fidelman -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/m1956k$spd$1...@ger.gmane.org
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
Miles Fidelman wrote: Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 10/10/2014 10:01 AM, softwatt wrote: On 10/10/2014 02:27 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: I also read this mail list via NNTP (easier to keep track of threads) This is perfect for me. But information on the net is scarce and I don't know where to begin. I know that I can access linux.debian.* and read stuff, but that would require a -often paid- Usenet account. Is there an open readonly server specifically for Debian? Mozilla does this (news.mozilla.org) According to: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianMailingLists There are 4 ways to read the list: - Email when subscribed to the list. - A Web browser viewing the archives, which are public. - Usenet with Network News (Transfer|Transport) Protocol, NNTP. - The mail-to-news gateways linux.debian.* I guess my question is how to do the third one. Thanks in advance. You don't need to use a paid server. There are plenty of free ones available. Personally, I use eternal-september.com. It's been pretty solid for me and contains all of the newsgroups I want. No binary newsgroups, but I can life with that. You can't post to Debian from there (because it's just a mirror of the mailing list), but you can post to real newsgroups. Note that a lot of list-to-usenet gateway software can be bi-directional, depending on administrative settings. As someone pointed out, debian-user is gatewayed to gmane - which, in turn, EXPOSES AN NNTP FEED. Point your newsreader at nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.user If this gets to the list, then one can post through it as well. Looks like this DID get to the list - so you can read and post through gmane's USENET i/f. But... it looks like gmane actually posts via email, not nntp - and the first time you do so, it sends you an email to confirm your email address. As far as users are concerned, it doesn't matter - it all just works -- and, I think, it seems to satisfy a lot of what the OP was asking for. Meanwhile, it's not at all clear whether the list-nntp gateway is bi-directional or not - there's not a lot to be found via google, and all of what I find is pretty ancient. I'll ask around a bit and report back what I find. Miles Fidelman -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54381d77.5080...@meetinghouse.net
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum (attn. Jerry)
Miles Fidelman wrote: Miles Fidelman wrote: Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 10/10/2014 10:01 AM, softwatt wrote: On 10/10/2014 02:27 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: I also read this mail list via NNTP (easier to keep track of threads) This is perfect for me. But information on the net is scarce and I don't know where to begin. I know that I can access linux.debian.* and read stuff, but that would require a -often paid- Usenet account. Is there an open readonly server specifically for Debian? Mozilla does this (news.mozilla.org) According to: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianMailingLists There are 4 ways to read the list: - Email when subscribed to the list. - A Web browser viewing the archives, which are public. - Usenet with Network News (Transfer|Transport) Protocol, NNTP. - The mail-to-news gateways linux.debian.* I guess my question is how to do the third one. Thanks in advance. You don't need to use a paid server. There are plenty of free ones available. Personally, I use eternal-september.com. It's been pretty solid for me and contains all of the newsgroups I want. No binary newsgroups, but I can life with that. You can't post to Debian from there (because it's just a mirror of the mailing list), but you can post to real newsgroups. Note that a lot of list-to-usenet gateway software can be bi-directional, depending on administrative settings. As someone pointed out, debian-user is gatewayed to gmane - which, in turn, EXPOSES AN NNTP FEED. Point your newsreader at nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.user If this gets to the list, then one can post through it as well. Looks like this DID get to the list - so you can read and post through gmane's USENET i/f. But... it looks like gmane actually posts via email, not nntp - and the first time you do so, it sends you an email to confirm your email address. As far as users are concerned, it doesn't matter - it all just works -- and, I think, it seems to satisfy a lot of what the OP was asking for. Meanwhile, it's not at all clear whether the list-nntp gateway is bi-directional or not - there's not a lot to be found via google, and all of what I find is pretty ancient. I'll ask around a bit and report back what I find. Sent an email off to the debian listmaster asking about the gateway. Meanwhile - there seems to be an ancient, possibly unmaintained list-mail gateway - robo...@news.nic.it - which moderates the linux.* newsgroup heirarchy. In order to post through it, you need to register by subscribing to the email listlinux-g...@lists.bofh.it -- at http://lists.bofh.it/listinfo/linux-gate It seems to be running - but... when I tried to post a message via the groups.google.com usenet reader - I got an error message from the robot saying that I need to subscribe -- even though I had just subscribed. So it's running, but the posting interface does not work, at least as far as google groups is concerned. Jerry: might be an interesting experiment to see if you can post via eternal-september.com - after subscribing to linux-gate. Miles Fidelman -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/543827b3.9080...@meetinghouse.net
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum (attn. Jerry)
Miles Fidelman wrote: Miles Fidelman wrote: Miles Fidelman wrote: Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 10/10/2014 10:01 AM, softwatt wrote: On 10/10/2014 02:27 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: I also read this mail list via NNTP (easier to keep track of threads) This is perfect for me. But information on the net is scarce and I don't know where to begin. I know that I can access linux.debian.* and read stuff, but that would require a -often paid- Usenet account. Is there an open readonly server specifically for Debian? Mozilla does this (news.mozilla.org) According to: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianMailingLists There are 4 ways to read the list: - Email when subscribed to the list. - A Web browser viewing the archives, which are public. - Usenet with Network News (Transfer|Transport) Protocol, NNTP. - The mail-to-news gateways linux.debian.* I guess my question is how to do the third one. Thanks in advance. You don't need to use a paid server. There are plenty of free ones available. Personally, I use eternal-september.com. It's been pretty solid for me and contains all of the newsgroups I want. No binary newsgroups, but I can life with that. You can't post to Debian from there (because it's just a mirror of the mailing list), but you can post to real newsgroups. Note that a lot of list-to-usenet gateway software can be bi-directional, depending on administrative settings. As someone pointed out, debian-user is gatewayed to gmane - which, in turn, EXPOSES AN NNTP FEED. Point your newsreader at nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.user If this gets to the list, then one can post through it as well. Looks like this DID get to the list - so you can read and post through gmane's USENET i/f. But... it looks like gmane actually posts via email, not nntp - and the first time you do so, it sends you an email to confirm your email address. As far as users are concerned, it doesn't matter - it all just works -- and, I think, it seems to satisfy a lot of what the OP was asking for. Meanwhile, it's not at all clear whether the list-nntp gateway is bi-directional or not - there's not a lot to be found via google, and all of what I find is pretty ancient. I'll ask around a bit and report back what I find. Sent an email off to the debian listmaster asking about the gateway. Meanwhile - there seems to be an ancient, possibly unmaintained list-mail gateway - robo...@news.nic.it - which moderates the linux.* newsgroup heirarchy. In order to post through it, you need to register by subscribing to the email listlinux-g...@lists.bofh.it -- at http://lists.bofh.it/listinfo/linux-gate It seems to be running - but... when I tried to post a message via the groups.google.com usenet reader - I got an error message from the robot saying that I need to subscribe -- even though I had just subscribed. So it's running, but the posting interface does not work, at least as far as google groups is concerned. Jerry: might be an interesting experiment to see if you can post via eternal-september.com - after subscribing to linux-gate. Miles Fidelman I bit the bullet and set up an nntp account with eternal-september.org - let's see if this gets through with mfidel...@meetinghouse.net as my email address (which is registered with the linux-gate robot). Miles -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/m199lt$uvf$1...@dont-email.me
debian-user via USENET [was: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum]
Miles Fidelman wrote: Miles Fidelman wrote: Miles Fidelman wrote: Miles Fidelman wrote: Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 10/10/2014 10:01 AM, softwatt wrote: On 10/10/2014 02:27 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: I also read this mail list via NNTP (easier to keep track of threads) This is perfect for me. But information on the net is scarce and I don't know where to begin. I know that I can access linux.debian.* and read stuff, but that would require a -often paid- Usenet account. Is there an open readonly server specifically for Debian? Mozilla does this (news.mozilla.org) According to: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianMailingLists There are 4 ways to read the list: - Email when subscribed to the list. - A Web browser viewing the archives, which are public. - Usenet with Network News (Transfer|Transport) Protocol, NNTP. - The mail-to-news gateways linux.debian.* I guess my question is how to do the third one. Thanks in advance. You don't need to use a paid server. There are plenty of free ones available. Personally, I use eternal-september.com. It's been pretty solid for me and contains all of the newsgroups I want. No binary newsgroups, but I can life with that. You can't post to Debian from there (because it's just a mirror of the mailing list), but you can post to real newsgroups. Note that a lot of list-to-usenet gateway software can be bi-directional, depending on administrative settings. As someone pointed out, debian-user is gatewayed to gmane - which, in turn, EXPOSES AN NNTP FEED. Point your newsreader at nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.user If this gets to the list, then one can post through it as well. Looks like this DID get to the list - so you can read and post through gmane's USENET i/f. But... it looks like gmane actually posts via email, not nntp - and the first time you do so, it sends you an email to confirm your email address. As far as users are concerned, it doesn't matter - it all just works -- and, I think, it seems to satisfy a lot of what the OP was asking for. Meanwhile, it's not at all clear whether the list-nntp gateway is bi-directional or not - there's not a lot to be found via google, and all of what I find is pretty ancient. I'll ask around a bit and report back what I find. Sent an email off to the debian listmaster asking about the gateway. Meanwhile - there seems to be an ancient, possibly unmaintained list-mail gateway - robo...@news.nic.it - which moderates the linux.* newsgroup heirarchy. In order to post through it, you need to register by subscribing to the email list linux-g...@lists.bofh.it -- at http://lists.bofh.it/listinfo/linux-gate It seems to be running - but... when I tried to post a message via the groups.google.com usenet reader - I got an error message from the robot saying that I need to subscribe -- even though I had just subscribed. So it's running, but the posting interface does not work, at least as far as google groups is concerned. Jerry: might be an interesting experiment to see if you can post via eternal-september.com - after subscribing to linux-gate. Miles Fidelman I bit the bullet and set up an nntp account with eternal-september.org - let's see if this gets through with mfidel...@meetinghouse.net as my email address (which is registered with the linux-gate robot). So... looks like it does. So... two ways to access debian-user via USENET: 1. via Gmane - point newsreader at nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.user - first time you try to post to, you'll get a message asking you to register w/ Gmane - reply to the message - after that, posts/replies will go through Gmane, via email, to debian-user 2. via eternal-september.org (and presumably any other nntp server that supports subscribe to linux.debian.user) - register for an account at eternal-september.org - go to http://lists.bofh.it/listinfo/linux-gate, subscribe to linux-g...@lists.bofh.it - to authorize posting - point newsreader at news://news.eternal-september.org:119/linux.debian.user (or whatever; note, probably also supports nttps, but haven't tried) - you should be good to go Note - in both cases, you might have to play games with your From: address --- e.g., for my combined mail/news/rss reader (SeaMonkey): - subscribing to a newsgroup, creates a new account on the new server (if it doesn't already exist) - have to go into the account preferences and enter my email address (the one I added to linux-gate) - when posting/replying, I have to be sure to select that account as my From address (Seamonkey provides a pull-down From: list) Cheers all, Miles Fidelman -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54382d03.9010...@meetinghouse.net
Re: debian-user via USENET [was: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum]
On 10/10/2014 10:10 PM, Miles Fidelman wrote: Miles Fidelman wrote: Miles Fidelman wrote: Miles Fidelman wrote: Miles Fidelman wrote: Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 10/10/2014 10:01 AM, softwatt wrote: On 10/10/2014 02:27 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: I also read this mail list via NNTP (easier to keep track of threads) This is perfect for me. But information on the net is scarce and I don't know where to begin. I know that I can access linux.debian.* and read stuff, but that would require a -often paid- Usenet account. Is there an open readonly server specifically for Debian? Mozilla does this (news.mozilla.org) According to: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianMailingLists There are 4 ways to read the list: - Email when subscribed to the list. - A Web browser viewing the archives, which are public. - Usenet with Network News (Transfer|Transport) Protocol, NNTP. - The mail-to-news gateways linux.debian.* I guess my question is how to do the third one. Thanks in advance. You don't need to use a paid server. There are plenty of free ones available. Personally, I use eternal-september.com. It's been pretty solid for me and contains all of the newsgroups I want. No binary newsgroups, but I can life with that. You can't post to Debian from there (because it's just a mirror of the mailing list), but you can post to real newsgroups. Note that a lot of list-to-usenet gateway software can be bi-directional, depending on administrative settings. As someone pointed out, debian-user is gatewayed to gmane - which, in turn, EXPOSES AN NNTP FEED. Point your newsreader at nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.user If this gets to the list, then one can post through it as well. Looks like this DID get to the list - so you can read and post through gmane's USENET i/f. But... it looks like gmane actually posts via email, not nntp - and the first time you do so, it sends you an email to confirm your email address. As far as users are concerned, it doesn't matter - it all just works -- and, I think, it seems to satisfy a lot of what the OP was asking for. Meanwhile, it's not at all clear whether the list-nntp gateway is bi-directional or not - there's not a lot to be found via google, and all of what I find is pretty ancient. I'll ask around a bit and report back what I find. Sent an email off to the debian listmaster asking about the gateway. Meanwhile - there seems to be an ancient, possibly unmaintained list-mail gateway - robo...@news.nic.it - which moderates the linux.* newsgroup heirarchy. In order to post through it, you need to register by subscribing to the email list linux-g...@lists.bofh.it -- at http://lists.bofh.it/listinfo/linux-gate It seems to be running - but... when I tried to post a message via the groups.google.com usenet reader - I got an error message from the robot saying that I need to subscribe -- even though I had just subscribed. So it's running, but the posting interface does not work, at least as far as google groups is concerned. Jerry: might be an interesting experiment to see if you can post via eternal-september.com - after subscribing to linux-gate. Miles Fidelman I bit the bullet and set up an nntp account with eternal-september.org - let's see if this gets through with mfidel...@meetinghouse.net as my email address (which is registered with the linux-gate robot). So... looks like it does. So... two ways to access debian-user via USENET: 1. via Gmane - point newsreader at nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.user - first time you try to post to, you'll get a message asking you to register w/ Gmane - reply to the message - after that, posts/replies will go through Gmane, via email, to debian-user 2. via eternal-september.org (and presumably any other nntp server that supports subscribe to linux.debian.user) - register for an account at eternal-september.org - go to http://lists.bofh.it/listinfo/linux-gate, subscribe to linux-g...@lists.bofh.it - to authorize posting - point newsreader at news://news.eternal-september.org:119/linux.debian.user (or whatever; note, probably also supports nttps, but haven't tried) - you should be good to go Note - in both cases, you might have to play games with your From: address --- e.g., for my combined mail/news/rss reader (SeaMonkey): - subscribing to a newsgroup, creates a new account on the new server (if it doesn't already exist) - have to go into the account preferences and enter my email address (the one I added to linux-gate) - when posting/replying, I have to be sure to select that account as my From address (Seamonkey provides a pull-down From: list) Cheers all, Miles Fidelman Thanks! If this thanks gets through, I will post a slightly different approach. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: debian-user via USENET [was: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum]
My thanks was not threaded correctly. Sorry. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: debian-user via USENET [was: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum]
* On 2014 10 Oct 14:19 -0500, softwatt wrote: My thanks was not threaded correctly. Sorry. It was threaded correctly by Mutt for me. Check the threading in the list archive. Might be an issue with your MUA. - Nate -- The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true. Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141010192659.gd6...@n0nb.us
Re: debian-user via USENET [was: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum]
On 10/10/2014 10:26 PM, Nate Bargmann wrote: * On 2014 10 Oct 14:19 -0500, softwatt wrote: My thanks was not threaded correctly. Sorry. It was threaded correctly by Mutt for me. Check the threading in the list archive. Might be an issue with your MUA. Mutt seems smarter than the norm. It wasn't threaded correctly in the archives. Thanks for the info. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: debian-user via USENET [was: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum]
* On 2014 10 Oct 14:56 -0500, softwatt wrote: On 10/10/2014 10:26 PM, Nate Bargmann wrote: * On 2014 10 Oct 14:19 -0500, softwatt wrote: My thanks was not threaded correctly. Sorry. It was threaded correctly by Mutt for me. Check the threading in the list archive. Might be an issue with your MUA. Mutt seems smarter than the norm. It wasn't threaded correctly in the archives. Thanks for the info. I went to the list archive via slrn and your message wasn't properly threaded there either, so it is Mutt that is handling the threading. Sorry about the noise. - Nate -- The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true. Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141010202208.ge6...@n0nb.us
Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
I have been contemplating the merits of mailing lists and comparing them with those of forums, thinking about whether there exists an alternative which provides the advantages of both. And then I came out with something new which does exactly that. Before I continue, allow me to quickly and partially list the advantages of each. If you're really impatient and prefer examples, head to the usage example at the bottom of the mail and skip the rest. Advantages of mailing lists: - Integrated with your mailing client - Filters - Work offline - Builtin PGP support - several others I haven't mentioned, but most of them stem from #1 Advantages of forums: - Far Better organized: They Have topics and sub-topics. While a seperate mailing list is required for each topic and subtopics do not exist. - New users get to see all threads immediately, while in mailing lists, a new user gets an empty list at first. - Posts can be edited (this may be a dis-advantage sometimes) - Far better moderation: Threads can be locked or removed at any time. Now, here's my proposal which provides all of the advantages I mentioned above. Instead of a mailing list, let there be an IMAP/POP account, let us call it i...@debian.org. However, it isn't a normal IMAP account: - It is public, and not a traditional private imap account. - It accepts all logins, regardless of the password typed. - It is read-only, users cannot directly modify it. - Users can only use it to read, they cannot send mails as i...@debian.org - It serves as the forum. - The topics and sub-topics are simply folders and sub-folders. - In order to read the forum, one simply adds the imap account to one's mail client. - In order to post something new, one simply replies to the relevant post (The FROM is one's own mail, and not i...@debian.org) This provides all the advantages of forums mentioned above PLUS all the advantages of mailing lists. That is: - Far Better organized: They Have topics and sub-topics. While a seperate mailing list is required for each topic and subtopics do not exist. - New users get to see all threads immediately, while in mailing lists, a new user gets an empty list at first. - (Optional)Posts can be edited (this may be a dis-advantage sometimes) - (Optional)Far better moderation: Threads can be locked or removed at any time. - Integrated with your mailing client - Filters - Work offline - Builtin PGP support - several others I haven't mentioned, but most of them stem from #1 ***Usage example*** Bob wants to participate in Debian discussions. Bob opens up Thunderbird and adds a new account: i...@debian.org. Bob's mailing client immediately populates the account with all the posts. Also, the account's inbox is divided into folders: Debian-user, debian-announce, etc. Bob can freely browse offline, etc. Now, Bob decides to send an email, he simply hits Reply, and makes sure the from is b...@example.com (It is, Thunderbord does this automatically for him because b...@example.com is his default account) Bob simply types his reply and sends it. Shortly after, i...@debian.org gets a new entry - bob's post. And everyone who's listening to i...@debian.org sees it, including bob himself. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
Didn't you just describe Usenet? :-/ - Nate -- The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true. Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141009204004.gl2...@n0nb.us
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
On Thu, 9 Oct 2014 15:40:04 -0500 Nate Bargmann n...@n0nb.us wrote: Didn't you just describe Usenet? I was thinking that. I suppose there are people who don't know about Usenet. There certainly aren't many ISPs who throw in Usenet nowadays... -- Joe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141009225227.13b60...@jresid.jretrading.com
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
On 10/9/2014 5:52 PM, Joe wrote: On Thu, 9 Oct 2014 15:40:04 -0500 Nate Bargmann n...@n0nb.us wrote: Didn't you just describe Usenet? I was thinking that. I suppose there are people who don't know about Usenet. There certainly aren't many ISPs who throw in Usenet nowadays... As well as free Usenet servers. Jerry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54371406.6040...@attglobal.net
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
Jerry Stuckle writes: As well as free Usenet servers. Anybody can run a Usenet server. -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87egugu94n@thumper.dhh.gt.org
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
On 10/9/2014 7:16 PM, John Hasler wrote: Jerry Stuckle writes: As well as free Usenet servers. Anybody can run a Usenet server. But if you set up your own usenet server, you won't have access to any of the newsgroups on usenet. Which will leave you very, very lonely. Jerry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54373ec3.5070...@attglobal.net
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
Jerry Stuckle writes: But if you set up your own usenet server, you won't have access to any of the newsgroups on usenet. Unless you arrange one or more feeds. That's how it works. It's a peer to peer system. I run my own Leafnode server for my wife and I. I currently purchase a feed from Newsguy. I've been doing this for decades. I used to be ihnp4!stolaf!bungia!foundln. If I had a static IP and lots of bandwidth I could set up a public server. That's irrelevant to the original posting, though. It's quite feasible to set up an island server with one or a few special-purpose newsgroups. It will do everything a Web forum does but better. -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87a954tzaq@thumper.dhh.gt.org
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
On 10/9/2014 10:48 PM, John Hasler wrote: Jerry Stuckle writes: But if you set up your own usenet server, you won't have access to any of the newsgroups on usenet. Unless you arrange one or more feeds. That's how it works. It's a peer to peer system. I run my own Leafnode server for my wife and I. I currently purchase a feed from Newsguy. I've been doing this for decades. I used to be ihnp4!stolaf!bungia!foundln. If I had a static IP and lots of bandwidth I could set up a public server. Which means you need access to a different server. And that goes back to my original statement - there are free usenet servers out there. That's irrelevant to the original posting, though. It's quite feasible to set up an island server with one or a few special-purpose newsgroups. It will do everything a Web forum does but better. Sure. But such newsgroups have very limited exposure - and very limited participation. The groups which get participation are those carried by thousands of servers around the world. The (very) few exceptions are servers run by large companies such as Microsoft. Jerry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54374c6e.8000...@attglobal.net
Re: Proposal: An alternative to mailing lists which isn't a forum
Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 10/9/2014 10:48 PM, John Hasler wrote: Jerry Stuckle writes: But if you set up your own usenet server, you won't have access to any of the newsgroups on usenet. Unless you arrange one or more feeds. That's how it works. It's a peer to peer system. I run my own Leafnode server for my wife and I. I currently purchase a feed from Newsguy. I've been doing this for decades. I used to be ihnp4!stolaf!bungia!foundln. If I had a static IP and lots of bandwidth I could set up a public server. Not for nothing, but at various times organizations have run a single usenet (actually nntp) server to support community newsgroups. Microsoft comes to mind - the run a couple of dozen newsgroups on various support topics (http://support2.microsoft.com/kb/150057) - just point your newsreader at their server. Netscape used to sell an enhanced news server, precisely to host access controlled private newsgroups - unfortunately that died with Netscape. Gatewaying debian-user to an nntp newsgroup hosted at debian.org might be a nice-to-have. Miles Fidelman -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54375176.4080...@meetinghouse.net
