Re: Unable to join the Debian User Forum; appears that all IPs are being black-listed.
On 10 January 2015 at 15:40, Wayne Hartell w.hart...@ozemail.com.au wrote: Trying my best with the trimming; I'll keep observing how other people do it and try to learn from that. Hi Wayne, So ok, it appears you understand the concept of trimming the conversation, but now it needs to be explained to you that you made a very serious trimming mistake in the message to which I am replying (which can be read in full at https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/01/msg00319.html) In that message, you trimmed out the attribution lines that explain who said what, this is very bad practice! The attribution lines are the automatic ones that say on date, person wrote:. You can see one of them at the top of this message. These are essential because each one explains who said what previously according to how many leading '' symbols each quoted line is marked with. Without them, your message is very defective, because the information about who wrote what is missing. You should always leave as many attribution lines as the maximum number of '' symbols in the lines you quote. For example in this message I am quoting you only, so there is only *one* level of '' symbols, so I have made sure to include the *one* attribution line that explains that you were the writer of those lines. You should only trim an attribution line if you also trim everything it refers to. The '' symbol is the most common, but other symbols are sometimes used too. These symbols and the attribution lines are automatically added by people's mail software, they are *never* typed manually. If I wanted to quote earlier writers in this conversation, I would have kept their attribution lines also. But your having deleted them means that I can't do that without a lot of unnecessary work, so by deleting them you break the whole workflow of the conversation for everyone following you. I hope this guides you towards a better understanding of good/essential mailing list workflow and etiquette. You can see that all the other writers here are following this practice, it's not hard once you get familiar with it. For example https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/01/msg00303.html is a randomly seleted example of good attribution and interleaved quoting. Note how each successive contributor has preserved sufficient attribution lines at the top to explain each level of '' symbol that occurs in the message. Regards David -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAMPXz=q=yj0sg-exdibxk2a9a6akkdkadv+4lvsmqm9ca88...@mail.gmail.com
RE: Unable to join the Debian User Forum; appears that all IPs are being black-listed.
Bob, Trying my best with the trimming; I'll keep observing how other people do it and try to learn from that. It does work in other Linux distros that I have tried. If it works anywhere then it should be possible to learn why and/or why not and to transfer that knowledge. The other distro may have done something unique and special there to make it work. The task is then to figure this out and make it available in Debian. That's what I would have thought. Rhythm Box appears to work just fine. How would Rhythm Box know what your smb username and password would be? Good question. My guess is perhaps since it's part of Gnome it's more integrated and since Gnome must know my credentials when I access the Windows shares initially, it probably has a standard place to store that information. But this is just a guess from a day 3 day old Debian user. I suggest that you post a new message to the mailing list. [snip] Give it a go. Good luck! I was thinking that myself but wasn't sure on the best procedure there either so thanks for filling me in. When I get a chance I'll do just that. Cheers, Wayne. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/008801d02c8f$97d839a0$c788ace0$@ozemail.com.au
Re: Unable to join the Debian User Forum; appears that all IPs are being black-listed.
On Friday 09 January 2015 22:35:45 Bob Proulx wrote: And also good editor skills of trimming out unneeded excess quoting. Be brutal with removing excess quotes! Personally I would rather see no previous quoted material rather than bad full quoting. Want to see what the message looks like to other people? Take a look at it in the mailing list archive. If it is hard for you to read then it will be hard for other people to read too. https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/01/msg00288.html Contrast that to this message in the archive. I have brutally trimmed the quotes to just the points to which I am replying. https://lists.debian.org/20150109151004514416184.noccsple...@bob.proulx.com Most of the bad trimming in the first of these is mine. I am very bad at trimming. I over-cut or cut the wrong thing so that when I read the nessage back later I can't follow it - so how can anyone else. So then I cut too little. But don't blame poor Wayne who made quite a good job of my hash. I was told always to leave enough for someone new to the list/thread to be able to follow what the discussion is about just by reading your posting, and not a scrap more. But I am not very good at it. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201501092328.46242.lisi.re...@gmail.com
RE: Unable to join the Debian User Forum; appears that all IPs are being black-listed.
Sorry, Wayne. I have done it yet again. Clicked reply in the Debian list. I should have pressed l and replied to the list, not you personally. :-( Lisi Hi, Wayne, Welcome to Debian! Good choice! And also welcome to the list. Thank you. So far I am liking what I see. On Friday 09 January 2015 06:07:52 Wayne Hartell wrote: Thanks. I'm sure to violate some conventions here in reply format or what have you. Just let me know if I do and I'll try to remedy in future. You have a basic underlying problem: Your email client does not quote correctly. I had a look. You are running Outlook. All I can say is: bad luck! But your quoting is a bit of a mess and I tried to sort it out for my reply, but it is too early in the morning (I am on GMT and had a late night.). So we all just have to be patient. Most of us have been there, done that and got the T-shirt. There are lots of super Linux email clients out there. Yes, you're right I am using Outlook since I've signed up to this list on a virtual machine that is configured for taking on the road for my work. I haven't yet taken a look at Evolution and others e-mail clients, but I fear that I'll be stuck on Outlook for a little while longer, until I convince myself to make a permanent switch. Hopefully this is a little better in terms of what is expected on the list. I edited a couple of settings to try to improve things. Once you are on a civilised email client, bottom posting, or even better, interleaving, is preferred. With suitable trimming, of course. (Which I am not very good at myself.) I'm sure I'll take a while to look anything but amateur. Now, the problem [snip] is that when I attempt to play an mp3 file using vlc, where that mp3 file is located on a password protected Windows share, vlc fails to play the file. VLC is unable to open the MRL (I have more detailed debug output if needed). Now, I have tried a newer version of VLC from the backports (2.1.2 I think), and it did not help. The work around is to edit the smb://host/path/file.mp3 to be smb://user:password@host/path/file.mp3 When I do this, it will work, but I have to do it for every file I add to the play list. Rhythm Box appears to work just fine. [snip] Anyway, I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my post. This may seem a little trivial, If you use vlc frequently and it does this every time, that is not trivial!! I can't really be any help at all, since I don't use vlc and have no Windows in the house so don't use Samba, but you only had one reply and it didn't feel very welcoming. Agreed; it's not trivial if that's what you are trying to do. Right now listening to music is not high on my agenda; it just jumped out at me as something that should probably work off the bat, especially when there seems to be no other samba related issues. I may end up just logging the issue when I am confident I understand the process and am not just wasting other people's time. Cheers, Wayne. but it's my first serious foray into Linux, just a couple of days old, and rather than run from issues I want to learn not only how to tackle the issues, but the processes that go along with Debian in general. :-)) Lisi Wayne Hartell wrote: I'm a new Debian/Linux user and brand new to this mailing list. Welcome. To that end I have been tinkering with various Linux distros and I have found a reproducible issue in Wheezy ... Please report it as a bug. https://www.debian.org/Bugs/ that I wish to discuss on the Debian user Forums, but I appear to be unable to register. Every IP I try I appears to be black-listed. I even attempted using TOR and those IPs were also black-listed. The problem is I can't post to the forums to tell them I can't register. I can't find anything on Google about this problem. I for one don't like web forums. Fortunately most of the real activity takes place on the mailing lists. You have subscribed to this mailing list and so don't need any of the web forums. Simply discuss the problem here. If there is a better way to report this issue please let me know. Please discuss your problem here. What problem are you having? What reproducible issue have you found in Wheezy? Bob -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201501091410.39304.lisi.re...@gmail.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/005701d02c1f$d4318d90$7c94a8b0$@ozemail.com.au
Re: Unable to join the Debian User Forum; appears that all IPs are being black-listed.
On 01/09/2015 07:20 AM, Wayne Hartell wrote: [snip] Yes, you're right I am using Outlook since I've signed up to this list on a virtual machine that is configured for taking on the road for my work. I haven't yet taken a look at Evolution and others e-mail clients, but I fear that I'll be stuck on Outlook for a little while longer, until I convince myself to make a permanent switch. Hopefully this is a little better in terms of what is expected on the list. I edited a couple of settings to try to improve things. I come from windows/outlook IMO Thunderbird is a wonderful alternative and is very easy to configure to look/feel/behave the way you want, might want to give it a try. -Joris signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Unable to join the Debian User Forum; appears that all IPs are being black-listed.
Hi Wayne, Wayne Hartell wrote: Thanks. I'm sure to violate some conventions here in reply format or what have you. Just let me know if I do and I'll try to remedy in future. I see you have already exchanged mail concerning one of those things. :-) There are 2,000+ subscribers on this mailing list. If you could imagine a town hall meeting with 2,000+ physical people in the room all with voices you can imagine how difficult it can be to keep discussion efficient. That is why trimming excess words is so important. It makes it easier for people to read and understand the message. If they can read and understand then you are much more likely to receive a high quality reply in return. With respect to reporting the issue as a bug I started down that path using Reportbug, but noticed that a similar issue (not quite the same, or maybe I just didn't understand it fully), so I wanted to discuss it first. Thanks for providing that opportunity. Please feel welcome to discuss problems such as you have found on this mailing list. We are mostly all simple users of the Debian system. A few are developers. Have some patience. You may get answers or help that is better or worse on different days. It does work in other Linux distros that I have tried. If it works anywhere then it should be possible to learn why and/or why not and to transfer that knowledge. The other distro may have done something unique and special there to make it work. The task is then to figure this out and make it available in Debian. VLC is unable to open the MRL (I have more detailed debug output if needed). ... The work around is to edit the smb://host/path/file.mp3 to be smb://user:password@host/path/file.mp3 That makes sense to me. With the username and password it can then access the media. When I do this, it will work, but I have to do it for every file I add to the play list. I understand that can be quite the pain. :-( Rhythm Box appears to work just fine. How would Rhythm Box know what your smb username and password would be? I'm not overly concerned about the issue which is why I wanted to discuss it before I submitted any official bug (that would obviously be low priority). I noticed Debian bug #602985 appears quite similar (it's about getting VLC to prompt for smb credentials), but I'm not sure if it's exactly the same. Anyway, I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my post. This may seem a little trivial, but it's my first serious foray into Linux, just a couple of days old, and rather than run from issues I want to learn not only how to tackle the issues, but the processes that go along with Debian in general. I don't have any knowledge of either of the two areas needed. I don't know about smb shares. I don't know about vlc using remote media through smb shares. Sorry I can't help there. And I don't see other help on this issue. (At least not yet). I suggest that you post a new message to the mailing list. (I will be specific about it being a NEW message. If you reply to any mailing list message then your reply will be threaded below it. Since Outlook does not handle message threads most Outlook users don't realize that replying to start a new message causes threading problems. That creates a situation known as thread stealing or thread hijacking. To avoid that simply start a new message every time you have a new topic.) I suggest that you post a new message to the mailing list. Pick a good short concise subject. In this case I would definitely mention both VLC and SMB shares and password in the subject. There is no right answer but just to get the thought processes going I will suggest something like: VLC password in SMB shares URL? You want to attract the attention of people who are knowledgeable about those things. It is in your interest to choose the subject to make it clear to those people so that they will choose to read your message. This current thread is not good because those people not interested in web forums have already skipped over it. Remember that there are 2,000+ people on the list. Meaning that there are a lot of postings. Not every posting will interest everyone. At some point everyone is going to be skipping a lot of messages. Connecting you and them together needs good subject lines. And also good editor skills of trimming out unneeded excess quoting. Be brutal with removing excess quotes! Personally I would rather see no previous quoted material rather than bad full quoting. Want to see what the message looks like to other people? Take a look at it in the mailing list archive. If it is hard for you to read then it will be hard for other people to read too. https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/01/msg00288.html Contrast that to this message in the archive. I have brutally trimmed the quotes to just the points to which I am replying. https://lists.debian.org/20150109151004514416184.noccsple...@bob.proulx.com Include
Re: Unable to join the Debian User Forum; appears that all IPs are being black-listed.
Sorry, Wayne. I have done it yet again. Clicked reply in the Debian list. I should have pressed l and replied to the list, not you personally. :-( Lisi Hi, Wayne, Welcome to Debian! Good choice! And also welcome to the list. On Friday 09 January 2015 06:07:52 Wayne Hartell wrote: Thanks. I'm sure to violate some conventions here in reply format or what have you. Just let me know if I do and I'll try to remedy in future. You have a basic underlying problem: Your email client does not quote correctly. I had a look. You are running Outlook. All I can say is: bad luck! But your quoting is a bit of a mess and I tried to sort it out for my reply, but it is too early in the morning (I am on GMT and had a late night.). So we all just have to be patient. Most of us have been there, done that and got the T-shirt. There are lots of super Linux email clients out there. Once you are on a civilised email client, bottom posting, or even better, interleaving, is preferred. With suitable trimming, of course. (Which I am not very good at myself.) [snip] Now, the problem [snip] is that when I attempt to play an mp3 file using vlc, where that mp3 file is located on a password protected Windows share, vlc fails to play the file. VLC is unable to open the MRL (I have more detailed debug output if needed). Now, I have tried a newer version of VLC from the backports (2.1.2 I think), and it did not help. The work around is to edit the smb://host/path/file.mp3 to be smb://user:password@host/path/file.mp3 When I do this, it will work, but I have to do it for every file I add to the play list. Rhythm Box appears to work just fine. [snip] Anyway, I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my post. This may seem a little trivial, If you use vlc frequently and it does this every time, that is not trivial!! I can't really be any help at all, since I don't use vlc and have no Windows in the house so don't use Samba, but you only had one reply and it didn't feel very welcoming. but it's my first serious foray into Linux, just a couple of days old, and rather than run from issues I want to learn not only how to tackle the issues, but the processes that go along with Debian in general. :-)) Lisi Wayne Hartell wrote: I'm a new Debian/Linux user and brand new to this mailing list. Welcome. To that end I have been tinkering with various Linux distros and I have found a reproducible issue in Wheezy ... Please report it as a bug. https://www.debian.org/Bugs/ that I wish to discuss on the Debian user Forums, but I appear to be unable to register. Every IP I try I appears to be black-listed. I even attempted using TOR and those IPs were also black-listed. The problem is I can't post to the forums to tell them I can't register. I can't find anything on Google about this problem. I for one don't like web forums. Fortunately most of the real activity takes place on the mailing lists. You have subscribed to this mailing list and so don't need any of the web forums. Simply discuss the problem here. If there is a better way to report this issue please let me know. Please discuss your problem here. What problem are you having? What reproducible issue have you found in Wheezy? Bob -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201501091410.39304.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Unable to join the Debian User Forum; appears that all IPs are being black-listed.
Wayne Hartell wrote: I'm a new Debian/Linux user and brand new to this mailing list. Welcome. To that end I have been tinkering with various Linux distros and I have found a reproducible issue in Wheezy ... Please report it as a bug. https://www.debian.org/Bugs/ that I wish to discuss on the Debian user Forums, but I appear to be unable to register. Every IP I try I appears to be black-listed. I even attempted using TOR and those IPs were also black-listed. The problem is I can't post to the forums to tell them I can't register. I can't find anything on Google about this problem. I for one don't like web forums. Fortunately most of the real activity takes place on the mailing lists. You have subscribed to this mailing list and so don't need any of the web forums. Simply discuss the problem here. If there is a better way to report this issue please let me know. Please discuss your problem here. What problem are you having? What reproducible issue have you found in Wheezy? Bob signature.asc Description: Digital signature
RE: Unable to join the Debian User Forum; appears that all IPs are being black-listed.
Hi Bob, Thanks. I'm sure to violate some conventions here in reply format or what have you. Just let me know if I do and I'll try to remedy in future. With respect to reporting the issue as a bug I started down that path using Reportbug, but noticed that a similar issue (not quite the same, or maybe I just didn't understand it fully), so I wanted to discuss it first. Thanks for providing that opportunity. First the issue is quite minor and I am able to work around it, but it's one of those things for a user like myself, coming from Windows, that pops up and feels like it should work, but doesn't. It does work in other Linux distros that I have tried. The issue is specifically with VLC Media Player (vlc package) and attempting to play an mp3 file via network (I believe smb) share. I'm running stable, so the version of vlc is: 2.0.3 (or, under synaptic, 2.0.3-5+deb7u1). Now, the problem, and this is reproducible from a physical laptop that I installed and also a virtual machine (both running 64-bit Wheezy), is that when I attempt to play an mp3 file using vlc, where that mp3 file is located on a password protected Windows share, vlc fails to play the file. VLC is unable to open the MRL (I have more detailed debug output if needed). Now, I have tried a newer version of VLC from the backports (2.1.2 I think), and it did not help. The work around is to edit the smb://host/path/file.mp3 to be smb://user:password@host/path/file.mp3 When I do this, it will work, but I have to do it for every file I add to the play list. Rhythm Box appears to work just fine. I'm not overly concerned about the issue which is why I wanted to discuss it before I submitted any official bug (that would obviously be low priority). I noticed Debian bug #602985 appears quite similar (it's about getting VLC to prompt for smb credentials), but I'm not sure if it's exactly the same. Anyway, I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my post. This may seem a little trivial, but it's my first serious foray into Linux, just a couple of days old, and rather than run from issues I want to learn not only how to tackle the issues, but the processes that go along with Debian in general. Thanks, Wayne. Wayne Hartell wrote: I'm a new Debian/Linux user and brand new to this mailing list. Welcome. To that end I have been tinkering with various Linux distros and I have found a reproducible issue in Wheezy ... Please report it as a bug. https://www.debian.org/Bugs/ that I wish to discuss on the Debian user Forums, but I appear to be unable to register. Every IP I try I appears to be black-listed. I even attempted using TOR and those IPs were also black-listed. The problem is I can't post to the forums to tell them I can't register. I can't find anything on Google about this problem. I for one don't like web forums. Fortunately most of the real activity takes place on the mailing lists. You have subscribed to this mailing list and so don't need any of the web forums. Simply discuss the problem here. If there is a better way to report this issue please let me know. Please discuss your problem here. What problem are you having? What reproducible issue have you found in Wheezy? Bob -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/004901d02bd2$9acd59a0$d0680ce0$@ozemail.com.au
