Re: [?]List of Best Debian-approved laptops in India
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 07:44:03 +, "Andrew M.A. Cater" wrote: > To: debian-user@lists.debian.org > Subject: Vendors not responding [WAS Re: [?]List of Best > Debian-approved laptops in India] [...] > Message-id: <[] 20210419074403.ga4...@einval.com> > In-reply-to: <[] > caeg4czujte5rd3x-nb6n-+4rmnurqh1zer5vsaf4cw7_oy7...@mail.gmail.com> > References: <[] > caeg4czu0mqrkfzbjypl_wzutdouojmmrw509tw82hp0gcyu...@mail.gmail.com> > > > > <[] CAEG4cZUfqMv=86c6Fr2n2rVtN70hA-=o5xorfkxlxuniczc...@mail.gmail.com> > > <[] caeg4czujte5rd3x-nb6n-+4rmnurqh1zer5vsaf4cw7_oy7...@mail.gmail.com> [...] > Hi Rajib, > > If you are in India, please check for us ... [...] > Information becomes outdated: if you can help advise of what is current, > that will be useful. > > Thanks, as ever, > > Andy Cater > I am already doing so, for my own PITA. Best. Rajib
Vendors not responding [WAS Re: [?]List of Best Debian-approved laptops in India]
On Mon, Apr 19, 2021 at 07:16:06AM +0530, Susmita/Rajib wrote: > Perhaps these lines in the post: > http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=10=149280 were missed. > > [quote="bkpsusmitaa"]Have been referring to the page: > https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn#OfficialDocumentation > [...] > Indian vendors have been contacted by email/SMS or called over phone. > Remain Incommunicado. > https://www.debian.org/distrib/pre-installed#in > [/quote] > > Best, > Rajib > Hi Rajib, If you are in India, please check for us. If the vendors do not respond, check the websites to see that they still exist and that they still appear to be offering Linux somewhere. If they don't: the wiki is a volunteer effort - if you know of any vendors who are helpful, add them. If you're sure that the existing vendors offering pre-installed Debian are no longer there, send a short note in to the debian-www list advising them of this. Information becomes outdated: if you can help advise of what is current, that will be useful. Thanks, as ever, Andy Cater
Re: [?]List of Best Debian-approved laptops in India
Susmita/Rajib composed on 2021-04-19 08:34 (UTC+0530): > On Sun, 18 Apr 2021 21:52:25 -0400, Felix Miata wrote: > Can I make a request please? Could I send you a reply from the other thread > at: > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/04/msg00512.html Unless and until all traces of NVidia's driver installation and associated configuration changes have been purged from your machine, I can be no help except WRT eradicating them. Even in that regard others know better than me how to proceed. AFAICT, whatever NVidia driver installation does eliminates any chance to make FOSS drivers work acceptably. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion, based on faith, not based on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
Re: [?]List of Best Debian-approved laptops in India
On Sun, 18 Apr 2021 21:52:25 -0400, Felix Miata wrote: [...] As above indicated, it works with Debian 10, using the FOSS default X driver (Modesetting DIX), along with the Nouveau kernel driver it depends on. No proprietary NVidia or other non-Debian software is required for competent Xorg operation. I have other NVidia GPUs in other PCs, all newer than yours, and all using the very same modesetting DIX driver. [...] Thank you, Dr./Mr Miata, for posting to my thread to inform me. Much appreciated. Can I make a request please? Could I send you a reply from the other thread at: https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/04/msg00512.html Subject: Can the latest stable Debian be compelled to run in vesa mode, rather than the motherboard graphics card, if the said card doesn't have drivers available? How? ...as to address some specific questions of Dr./Mr. Cater, I created that thread. I am really interested as I find my problems getting solved. Best. Rajib
Re: [?]List of Best Debian-approved laptops in India
On Sun, 18 Apr 2021 17:56:46 +, "Andrew M.A. Cater" wrote: [QUOTE] [...] I followed through the screenshots you provided. [...] You can't ignore the source - you may have to apply it to a kernel. [/QUOTE] Okay, learnt. Thank you. [QUOTE] [...] You have dependency errors. That's a bad sign. [...] WHY, oh, why are you trying to use Bullseye and kernel 5.10 at this stage? [/QUOTE] I used the example of knoppix. Regarding Bullseye and kernel 5.10, that was knoppix. [QUOTE] [...] First things first: you have a laptop which is 64 bit capable, I think. You also have a laptop which is capable of using UEFI. Use them. Use those options. [...] [/QUOTE] 64bit yes. For the problematic laptop, UEFI, no. [QUOTE] Download a CD/DVD including firmware if that's what it takes - First link is CD which may be enough, second is DVD https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-10.9.0-amd64-netinst.iso https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-dvd/firmware-10.9.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso [...] [/QUOTE] > Presently, I used the Debian grub to run knoppix, either as iso by > loopback loop, or with iso extracted and am presently using knoppix > for the HCL Me laptop. > > Please tell me if there is a possibility of using Debian to use vesa > (or fbdev) from grub, although fbdev is deprecated, vesa runs fine. > But a little stressful for the motherboard and CPU. Heat up. > > Best, > Rajib [QUOTE] Try the above with current Debian 10 and a text mode expert install _first_ Do NOT install a graphical environment until you can get the laptop working in text mode. At that point, you may have to deal with installing nouveau or, possibly, the Nvidia proprietary drivers. You will almost certainly need the build-essential tools to build Nvidia code if you use the proprietary drivers. Please try taking this single step by single step and explaining what errors you are getting as you go. For large amounts of logs, you might need to use pastebin. Hope this helps, all the best, Andy C. [/QUOTE] Thank you, Dr. Cater. Until recently, Debian 10.8 was the most recent one. So I had used that one. One question: After I have installed in the text mode, what codes do I use for apt-get, or to be precise, like synaptic search in GUI, how do I search for the specific nvidia drivers for "GeForce 8200M G [MCP79]"?What would be equivalent apt-get lines? Best. Rajib
Re: [?]List of Best Debian-approved laptops in India
Perhaps these lines in the post: http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=10=149280 were missed. [quote="bkpsusmitaa"]Have been referring to the page: https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn#OfficialDocumentation [...] Indian vendors have been contacted by email/SMS or called over phone. Remain Incommunicado. https://www.debian.org/distrib/pre-installed#in [/quote] Best, Rajib
Re: [?]List of Best Debian-approved laptops in India
Susmita/Rajib composed on 2021-04-18 20:01 (UTC+0530): > Vesa doesn't work in Debian Buster 10.8, by my blocking Nouveau > through grub.cfg that halts the nvidia graphics chip. The string > 'xmodule=vesa' doesn't work either. > Debian nvidia drivers, as ever, fails to install. > The nvidia drivers 64bit downloaded from nvidia website don't work. > The problematic Hardware: > (1) VGA compatible controller : NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 [GeForce > 8200M G] (rev b1) (prog-if 00 [VGA controller]) > I have a slightly older version of what you have: # inxi -GISay System: Host: mcp61 Kernel: 4.19.0-16-amd64 x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 8.3.0 ... Desktop: Trinity R14.0.9 tk: Qt 3.5.0 info: kicker wm: Twin 3.0 vt: 7 dm: TDM Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster) Graphics: Device-1: NVIDIA C61 [GeForce 6150SE nForce 430] vendor: Micro-Star MSI driver: nouveau v: kernel bus-ID: 00:0d.0 chip-ID: 10de:03d0 class-ID: 0300 Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.4 driver: loaded: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa alternate: nouveau,nv display-ID: :0 screens: 1 Screen-1: 0 s-res: 1680x1050 s-dpi: 108 s-size: 395x246mm (15.6x9.7") s-diag: 465mm (18.3") Monitor-1: VGA-1 res: 1680x1050 hz: 60 dpi: 90 size: 474x296mm (18.7x11.7") diag: 559mm (22") OpenGL: renderer: llvmpipe (LLVM 7.0 128 bits) v: 3.3 Mesa 18.3.6 compat-v: 3.1 direct render: Yes Info:...Shell: Bash v: 5.0.3 running-in: konsole inxi: 3.3.04 As above indicated, it works with Debian 10, using the FOSS default X driver (Modesetting DIX), along with the Nouveau kernel driver it depends on. No proprietary NVidia or other non-Debian software is required for competent Xorg operation. I have other NVidia GPUs in other PCs, all newer than yours, and all using the very same modesetting DIX driver. No one wants the dismal performance of the VESA driver except for troubleshooting purposes. The Nouveau DDX driver is an old technology alternative to the Modesetting DIX that may or may not do any better on old NVidia IGPs like ours, which I find unnecessary. For GUI mode installation purposes, it's possible you might need a kernel command line option "nomodeset", intended mainly for troubleshooting, but scant few need it once Debian is installed. -- Evolution as taught in public schools, like religion, is based on faith, not on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
Re: [?]List of Best Debian-approved laptops in India
> I'd recommend to find a vendor that is shipping hardware with a linux > distribution pre-installed, Seconded. Not only it minimizes the problems you'll have when installing Debian on it but it additionally helps promote those vendors who do provide GNU/Linux support: vote with your wallet. Stefan "writing this on a Librem mini"
Re: [?]List of Best Debian-approved laptops in India
Susmita/Rajib wrote: > But in the end. may the two laptops, HP and HCL, be please ignored. It is not about the make, but about the model. In general I recommend choosing the business line if possible (perhaps buy used one), but still only experience with the hardware can be the right. For example Dell Latitude 5440 excellent, 3440 poor. HP ProBook is also not bad
Re: [?]List of Best Debian-approved laptops in India
On Sun, 18 Apr 2021 15:19:36 +, "Andrew M.A. Cater" wrote: > To: debian-user@lists.debian.org > Subject: Re: [?]List of Best Debian-approved laptops in India > From: "Andrew M.A. Cater" > Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2021 15:19:36 + > Message-id: <[] 20210418151936.ga12...@einval.com> > In-reply-to: <[] > caeg4czu0mqrkfzbjypl_wzutdouojmmrw509tw82hp0gcyu...@mail.gmail.com> [...] > > Please do not do this. Please do not refer across to the forums as that > means chasing away from the mailing lists. Please do ask questions here. Thank you for replying to my post, Mr. Cater. I consider such reportage my honesty and empathy. I won't have my support-providers waste man-hours doubly, both there and here. I shall share the links there and here. > [...] > The forum post you have made is not very clear. Most laptops require some > firmware. Most laptops require non-free WiFi firmware. An increasing number > also require non-free video drivers. This is, unfortunately, to be > expected: > the market share for Linux is small - even where manufacturers pre-install > Linux - like Lenovo - we may have to install non-free drivers. > [...] Yes, I am pained to find GNU FSF failing. > [...] > _Which_ model of HP laptop? > What does the output of lspci show? > If you use grep to search the output of dmesg, what does it show for > firmware / video chipset and so on? HP laptop issue was partially solved by these two posts: https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/10/msg00493.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/10/msg00497.html Debian wifi icon gauges the wireless signal through the card alright, but fails to use internet through it. However, Knoppix is able to use the wifi card for internet. May the issue be _ignored_ therefore. >> Vesa doesn't work in Debian Buster 10.8, by my blocking Nouveau >> through grub.cfg that halts the nvidia graphics chip. The string >> 'xmodule=vesa' doesn't work either. > > Don't do that, then. If you install the main Debian installer [using text > mode > only if necessary) - an expert install does the laptop display anything? > The text mode installer and the graphical installer both use basic drivers > that should work with most chipsets. I created a separate thread on this issue, posting the problem in details and then asking for a HowTo: Can the latest stable Debian be compelled to run in vesa mode, rather than the motherboard graphics card, if the said card doesn't have drivers available? How? So please bear with me until then. But in the end. may the two laptops, HP and HCL, be please ignored. Please peruse the links that have been provided and suggest a good laptop to buy. Mr. Kushal Kumaran has mentioned two laptops from India. I shall talk to him Thank you,
Re: [?]List of Best Debian-approved laptops in India
On Sun, Apr 18, 2021 at 08:01:46PM +0530, Susmita/Rajib wrote:
> My illustrious List Leaders and solution providers,
>
> My references are here:
> http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=10=149280
> {to avoid repetition)
Rajib,
Please do not do this. Please do not refer across to the forums as that
means chasing away from the mailing lists. Please do ask questions here.
The forum post you have made is not very clear. Most laptops require some
firmware. Most laptops require non-free WiFi firmware. An increasing number
also require non-free video drivers. This is, unfortunately, to be expected:
the market share for Linux is small - even where manufacturers pre-install
Linux - like Lenovo - we may have to install non-free drivers.
>
> Need your advice and suggestion on the issue. The laptops that I have
> are problematic under Debian. Some modified Debian installation like
> Knoppix have sorted out some problems that exist with Pure Debian,
> like wifi in HP and vesa in HCL Me.
>
_Which_ model of HP laptop?
What does the output of lspci show?
If you use grep to search the output of dmesg, what does it show for
firmware / video chipset and so on?
> Vesa doesn't work in Debian Buster 10.8, by my blocking Nouveau
> through grub.cfg that halts the nvidia graphics chip. The string
> 'xmodule=vesa' doesn't work either.
Don't do that, then. If you install the main Debian installer [using text mode
only if necessary) - an expert install does the laptop display anything?
The text mode installer and the graphical installer both use basic drivers
that should work with most chipsets.
>
> Debian nvidia drivers, as ever, fails to install.
How did you install them - what procedure did you follow?
>
> The nvidia drivers 64bit downloaded from nvidia website don't work.
> The problematic Hardware:
> (1) VGA compatible controller : NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 [GeForce
> 8200M G] (rev b1) (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])
> (2) Audio device : NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 High Definition Audio (rev b1)
>
If you use the proprietary drivers, then you will need to follow particular
steps. The drivers you need are referenced here:
https://packages.debian.org/buster/nvidia-legacy-340xx-driver
> So information would be welcome. This time I wish to buy a laptop that
> shall not be DND, but Debian approved.
>
> Regards,
> Rajib
> Etc.
>
All best, as ever,
Andy Cater
Re: [?]List of Best Debian-approved laptops in India
On Sun, Apr 18 2021 at 08:01:46 PM, "Susmita/Rajib"
wrote:
> My illustrious List Leaders and solution providers,
>
> My references are here:
> http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=10=149280
> {to avoid repetition)
>
> Need your advice and suggestion on the issue. The laptops that I have
> are problematic under Debian. Some modified Debian installation like
> Knoppix have sorted out some problems that exist with Pure Debian,
> like wifi in HP and vesa in HCL Me.
>
> Vesa doesn't work in Debian Buster 10.8, by my blocking Nouveau
> through grub.cfg that halts the nvidia graphics chip. The string
> 'xmodule=vesa' doesn't work either.
>
> Debian nvidia drivers, as ever, fails to install.
>
> The nvidia drivers 64bit downloaded from nvidia website don't work.
> The problematic Hardware:
> (1) VGA compatible controller : NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 [GeForce
> 8200M G] (rev b1) (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])
> (2) Audio device : NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 High Definition Audio (rev b1)
>
> So information would be welcome. This time I wish to buy a laptop that
> shall not be DND, but Debian approved.
>
I'd recommend to find a vendor that is shipping hardware with a linux
distribution pre-installed, and pick a device that does not have nvidia
hardware, assuming you don't need any specific nvidia feature. When I
last bought a laptop in India (~2016), it was a Dell Vostro 3458 with
Ubuntu preinstalled. My current hardware is a Dell Precision 7520,
again with Ubuntu preinstalled. Both run debian with no difficulty. I
have no recent experience with running nvidia hardware. The Vostro has
Intel and the Precision has Intel/AMD.
--
regards,
kushal
