Re: [Emc-users] buster warning

[Michael Stone]

On Mon, Dec 07, 2020 at 04:03:21PM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Monday 07 December 2020 10:20:18 Greg Wooledge wrote:


On Sat, Dec 05, 2020 at 11:52:32AM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Saturday 05 December 2020 11:11:40 Tixy wrote:
> > Have you ever seen network interfaces appear under /dev ?
> > They don't appear there on my machines...
>
> They used to, and that has always been the first place I check when
> the net doesn't come up.

They have never been present in /dev under Linux.  Maybe you're
thinking of some other operating system.

I did a quick google search just to make sure I'm not hallucinating
this, and found a thread from a Red Hat mailing list in 2002 saying
basically the same thing.

https://www.redhat.com/archives/guinness-list/2002-October/msg00031.ht
ml


I could be confused, but I think it was in RH-5.0, my first linux install
in late '98?


Nope.

Re: [Emc-users] buster warning

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 07 December 2020 10:20:18 Greg Wooledge wrote:

> On Sat, Dec 05, 2020 at 11:52:32AM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Saturday 05 December 2020 11:11:40 Tixy wrote:
> > > Have you ever seen network interfaces appear under /dev ?
> > > They don't appear there on my machines...
> >
> > They used to, and that has always been the first place I check when
> > the net doesn't come up.
>
> They have never been present in /dev under Linux.  Maybe you're
> thinking of some other operating system.
>
> I did a quick google search just to make sure I'm not hallucinating
> this, and found a thread from a Red Hat mailing list in 2002 saying
> basically the same thing.
>
> https://www.redhat.com/archives/guinness-list/2002-October/msg00031.ht
>ml

I could be confused, but I think it was in RH-5.0, my first linux install 
in late '98?

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: [Emc-users] buster warning

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sat, Dec 05, 2020 at 11:52:32AM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Saturday 05 December 2020 11:11:40 Tixy wrote:
> > Have you ever seen network interfaces appear under /dev ?
> > They don't appear there on my machines...
> >
> They used to, and that has always been the first place I check when the 
> net doesn't come up.

They have never been present in /dev under Linux.  Maybe you're thinking
of some other operating system.

I did a quick google search just to make sure I'm not hallucinating
this, and found a thread from a Red Hat mailing list in 2002 saying
basically the same thing.

https://www.redhat.com/archives/guinness-list/2002-October/msg00031.html

Re: [Emc-users] buster warning

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 05 December 2020 15:47:02 Felix Miata wrote:

> Gene Heskett composed on 2020-12-05 11:52 (UTC-0500):
> > On Saturday 05 December 2020 11:11:40 Tixy wrote:
> >> On Sat, 2020-12-05 at 10:35 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >> > And while it is working, there still is not a /dev/enp1s0
> >> > to be found except in an "ip a" output.
> >>
> >> I'm sure "ip a" mentions 'enp1s0' not '/dev/enp1s0'.
> >
> > Correct, my short term memory isn't that error free any more.
>
> Do you remember eth0? Would you like it back? I always have it (lots
> of PCs). To get it I use option #3 from the bottom of:
> https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkIn
>terfaceNames/

That might be handy Felix, but is unrelated to the problem at hand.

What I found when this occurred at buster install time, and it took this 
to remind me of a day wasted when I installed buster, was what appears 
to be a race condition between avahi assigning an absolutely bogus 
routing table in the 169.xx.xx.xx range, and ifup trying to read the 
interfaces file to get the proper route. Or something along those lines.

So The fix is brute force by rm'ing the avahi-daemon which stops all that 
BS and does not generate a logable error when whatever cals it can't 
find it.

Works until the next reboot after the avahi-daemon has been replaced by 
the package manager, in this case synaptic. So this time I got brave and 
had synaptic remove that piece crap again, which also removed a dns 
related library.  But since all that is specced in the /e/n/i file, and 
I use a hosts file for local address resolution, so for me its a total 
never mind. Since cups does its own thing anyway, I have never figured 
out ANY justification for wasting drive space with any of the many avahi 
related bits and pieces.  They are a headache waiting in the wings, and 
I fail to see the justification for jamming that crap down the users 
throats. Simply put, if it gets a chance to run, it gets it WRONG. And 
not even root can reassign a good route, I've literally spent days 
trying. It goes thru the motions, but look 5 seconds later and the wrong 
address is back in the routing table.

This may not be 100% correct, may not even be the right theory, but it 
sure fixes the problem it has created. And its been a headache here 
since Jessie.

And while you haven't been abusive about it, I am plumb put out by the 
denigrating and downright insulting remarks aimed at me for using a 
hosts file for local dns. For me, setting up a dhcp daemon for local 
address resolution is just more system bloat, wasted cpu cycles etc.

Thanks Felix, stay safe and well now.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: [Emc-users] buster warning

[Felix Miata]

Gene Heskett composed on 2020-12-05 11:52 (UTC-0500):

> On Saturday 05 December 2020 11:11:40 Tixy wrote:
 
>> On Sat, 2020-12-05 at 10:35 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:

>> > And while it is working, there still is not a /dev/enp1s0
>> > to be found except in an "ip a" output.

>> I'm sure "ip a" mentions 'enp1s0' not '/dev/enp1s0'.
 
> Correct, my short term memory isn't that error free any more.

Do you remember eth0? Would you like it back? I always have it (lots
of PCs). To get it I use option #3 from the bottom of:
https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools, like religion,
is based on faith, not on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

Re: [Emc-users] buster warning

[Michael Stone]

On Sat, Dec 05, 2020 at 11:52:32AM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Saturday 05 December 2020 11:11:40 Tixy wrote:

Have you ever seen network interfaces appear under /dev ?
They don't appear there on my machines...

They used to, 


No, they didn't. Network interfaces have traditionally been a major 
exception to the unix "everything is a file" philosophy.

Re: [Emc-users] buster warning

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 05 December 2020 11:11:40 Tixy wrote:

> On Sat, 2020-12-05 at 10:35 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > And while it is working, there still is not a /dev/enp1s0
> > to be found except in an "ip a" output.
>
> I'm sure "ip a" mentions 'enp1s0' not '/dev/enp1s0'.

Correct, my short term memory isn't that error free any more.
 
> Have you ever seen network interfaces appear under /dev ?
> They don't appear there on my machines...
>
They used to, and that has always been the first place I check when the 
net doesn't come up. What I am not sure about is which version it got 
changed in. Its been a while though, as I note the one wheezy install I 
still have running on another copy of that same hardware, is using eth0 
but its not in the /dev/net tree either. So I'm the one out of date it 
seems.

The whole point is that the most recent V 2.8 LinuxCNC install hasn't 
pinned the kernel, and that it didn't work again until I had rebooted 
to -rt11 from the newer -rt13, and its now works correctly for all 
versions tried, but didn't at 8:15 local time this morning.

There should be a reason, but I've not found it.
  
> # find /dev -name enp2s0
>
> # find /sys -name enp2s0
> /sys/class/net/enp2s0
> /sys/devices/pci:00/:00:1c.3/:02:00.0/net/enp2s0
>
> # ls -l /sys/class/net/
> total 0
> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 Dec  5 16:06 enp2s0 -> 
> ../../devices/pci:00/:00:1c.3/:02:00.0/net/enp2s0
> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 Dec  5 16:06 lo ->
> ../../devices/virtual/net/lo lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 Dec  5 16:06
> wlp1s0 ->
> ../../devices/pci:00/:00:1c.0/:01:00.0/net/wlp1s0


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: [Emc-users] buster warning

[Tixy]

On Sat, 2020-12-05 at 10:35 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> And while it is working, there still is not a /dev/enp1s0
> to be found except in an "ip a" output.

I'm sure "ip a" mentions 'enp1s0' not '/dev/enp1s0'.
Have you ever seen network interfaces appear under /dev ?
They don't appear there on my machines...

# find /dev -name enp2s0

# find /sys -name enp2s0
/sys/class/net/enp2s0
/sys/devices/pci:00/:00:1c.3/:02:00.0/net/enp2s0

# ls -l /sys/class/net/
total 0
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 Dec  5 16:06 enp2s0 ->  
../../devices/pci:00/:00:1c.3/:02:00.0/net/enp2s0
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 Dec  5 16:06 lo -> ../../devices/virtual/net/lo
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 Dec  5 16:06 wlp1s0 -> 
../../devices/pci:00/:00:1c.0/:01:00.0/net/wlp1s0

-- 
Tixy

Re: [Emc-users] buster warning

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 05 December 2020 09:18:06 Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Saturday 05 December 2020 08:46:06 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Greetings all;
> >
> > I just updated my one wintel/buster install, on a D525-MW mobo in an
> > OAK box, which replaced the rt kernel with a new version of
> > 4.19.0-rt13 and when synaptic was done, issued a sudo reboot to
> > reboot to it...
> >
> > 10 minutes later it is still not pingable. I've not yet had a chance
> > to go check it physically as its up the hill in a separate building.
> >
> > But I thought you with uptodate buster installs might want to know
> > something could be wrong.
> >
> > I'll report more when I know more.
>
> When I got there and turned on the monitor, is was waiting for someone
> it knew to log in. So I logged in and checked the new linuxcnc, seemed
> to be ok. But arriving back in this chair, it has no network. CCing
> debian- user since I assume the new kernel came from there. So I'll go
> back and see whats wrong with the ifup's. More later.

Went back and rebooted it to the last 3 rt kernels, no network for -rt12.

Got normal net from -rt11, reboot back to -rt12, works, ditto -rt13 
works, and the default let it time out works.

WTH. Come back to house again, ssh now works but keys are wrong, login 
anyway.

reboot it from here, ping is back in around 40 secs, takes an ssh login a 
few seconds later. Everything seems normal.  Go back up, kill the power 
to the monitor and the lathe this machine controls, come back and reboot 
it again. Works. WTH? I am glad, but I've also made a few trips up the 
hill on 86 yo pins and wasted at least 2 hours doing it. And I did not 
touch anything with an editor.  And while it is working, there still is 
not a /dev/enp1s0 to be found except in an "ip a" output. Or 
in /e/n/interfaces.  udev makes this stuff up out of whole cloth now?

Call me bumfuzzled, this does not make sense.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: [Emc-users] buster warning

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 05 December 2020 09:18:06 Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Saturday 05 December 2020 08:46:06 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Greetings all;
> >
> > I just updated my one wintel/buster install, on a D525-MW mobo in an
> > OAK box, which replaced the rt kernel with a new version of
> > 4.19.0-rt13 and when synaptic was done, issued a sudo reboot to
> > reboot to it...
> >
> > 10 minutes later it is still not pingable. I've not yet had a chance
> > to go check it physically as its up the hill in a separate building.
> >
> > But I thought you with uptodate buster installs might want to know
> > something could be wrong.
> >
> > I'll report more when I know more.
>
> When I got there and turned on the monitor, is was waiting for someone
> it knew to log in. So I logged in and checked the new linuxcnc, seemed
> to be ok. But arriving back in this chair, it has no network. CCing
> debian- user since I assume the new kernel came from there. So I'll go
> back and see whats wrong with the ifup's. More later.
>
I went went back up the hill and checked /e/n/interfaces, no change 
there, supposed to be enps01, tried to restart it, failed, there is 
no /dev/enps01. or /dev/net/enps01.  systemctl says the tun descriptor 
in /dev/net "is in a bad state".

So I'm going back yet again to see if the grub menu still has the older 
rt kernel.


> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: [Emc-users] buster warning

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 05 December 2020 08:46:06 Gene Heskett wrote:

> Greetings all;
>
> I just updated my one wintel/buster install, on a D525-MW mobo in an
> OAK box, which replaced the rt kernel with a new version of
> 4.19.0-rt13 and when synaptic was done, issued a sudo reboot to reboot
> to it...
>
> 10 minutes later it is still not pingable. I've not yet had a chance
> to go check it physically as its up the hill in a separate building.
>
> But I thought you with uptodate buster installs might want to know
> something could be wrong.
>
> I'll report more when I know more.
>
When I got there and turned on the monitor, is was waiting for someone it 
knew to log in. So I logged in and checked the new linuxcnc, seemed to 
be ok. But arriving back in this chair, it has no network. CCing debian- 
user since I assume the new kernel came from there. So I'll go back and 
see whats wrong with the ifup's. More later.

> Cheers, Gene Heskett


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page