Re: A file synchronization tool that respects hardlinks

[David Wright]

On Wed 25 Oct 2023 at 07:28:44 (-0600), Charles Curley wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Oct 2023 09:57:19 +0300
> Itay  wrote:
> 
> > Perhaps I will grab the chance to separate private stuff from work
> > stuff :-)
> 
> Indeed! I don't know where you are located, but I will tell you that in
> parts of the US commingling the two can become a legal nightmare. I
> would consider having a separate computer for each.

The same for phones.

Cheers,
David.

Re: A file synchronization tool that respects hardlinks

[Charles Curley]

On Wed, 25 Oct 2023 09:57:19 +0300
Itay  wrote:

> Perhaps I will grab the chance to separate private stuff from work
> stuff :-)

Indeed! I don't know where you are located, but I will tell you that in
parts of the US commingling the two can become a legal nightmare. I
would consider having a separate computer for each.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: A file synchronization tool that respects hardlinks

[Itay]

On Tue, 24 Oct 2023, at 17:19, Itay wrote:
> 
> 
> On Sun, 22 Oct 2023, at 21:10, Charles Curley wrote:
> > On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 17:40:43 +0300
> > Itay  wrote:
> >
> >> According to wikipedia[4] the following tools are bidirectional:
> >>  FreeFileSync / NextCloud / Owncloud / SyncThing
> >> Please -- can someone quickly tell me if they respect hardlinks?
> >> Or recommend another tool(s) that respect hardlinks?
> >
> > I can tell you that nextcloud and syncthing do not appear to respect
> > hard links. They will copy two hard linked files (the same inode), but
> > on the receiving computer the files will not be hard linked.
> >
> > I suspect the same for owncloud, as nextcloud is a fork of owncloud.
> >
> 
> Thank you.  Your answer narrows down the options to FreeFileSync.
> I'll search the documentation.

According to FreeFileSync forum the tool does *not* respect hardlinks[1,2].
However, in the same forum they recommend the commercial tool SynCovery[2,3].
There are downloads packaged for debian, and a free one month trial.
Haven't tried it, yet.

My thanks to all the responders.

[1] freefilesync.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6087=hardlinks#p20016
[2] freefilesync.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6633=hardlinks
[3] https://www.syncovery.com/

> 
> > -- 
> > Does anybody read signatures any more?
> >
> > https://charlescurley.com
> > https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: A file synchronization tool that respects hardlinks

[Itay]

On Tue, 24 Oct 2023, at 18:09, Charles Curley wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Oct 2023 17:14:21 +0300
> Itay  wrote:
>
>> > Though, in general, the purpose of something like darcs is to
>> > *provide* the syncing.
>> >  
>> 
>> True.  But my home dir includes many subdirs that are not under darcs
>> control.
>
> Then perhaps you should consider what I do.
>
> I put stuff under version control under a directory dedicated to
> version controlled material, ~/versioned. Those I have to synchronize
> to such other computers as I want synchronized manually with the
> relevant VCS.
>
> I then put other stuff I want synchronized to other computers under a
> special directory, ~/projects. ~/projects is subject to syncthing, so
> other computers are updated automatically. (It also makes ~/ a lot
> cleaner.) No hard links so far.
>
> Stuff outside of ~/projects which I want synchronized I symlink into a
> tree under ~/projects/home. So ~/.emacs is a symlink to
> ~/projects/home/emacs. So now every time I change .emacs on one
> computer it gets updated on the others where I have syncthing.
>
> Other stuff I want synchronized, but rarely, such as music or
> photographs, I synchronize manually with rsync.
>

Maybe this would be the best way to go.
Perhaps I will grab the chance to separate private stuff from work stuff :-)

One point to remember is to avoid using hardlinks anywhere outside ~/versioned.

Thanks!

> -- 
> Does anybody read signatures any more?
>
> https://charlescurley.com
> https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: A file synchronization tool that respects hardlinks

[Charles Curley]

On Tue, 24 Oct 2023 17:14:21 +0300
Itay  wrote:

> > Though, in general, the purpose of something like darcs is to
> > *provide* the syncing.
> >  
> 
> True.  But my home dir includes many subdirs that are not under darcs
> control.

Then perhaps you should consider what I do.

I put stuff under version control under a directory dedicated to
version controlled material, ~/versioned. Those I have to synchronize
to such other computers as I want synchronized manually with the
relevant VCS.

I then put other stuff I want synchronized to other computers under a
special directory, ~/projects. ~/projects is subject to syncthing, so
other computers are updated automatically. (It also makes ~/ a lot
cleaner.) No hard links so far.

Stuff outside of ~/projects which I want synchronized I symlink into a
tree under ~/projects/home. So ~/.emacs is a symlink to
~/projects/home/emacs. So now every time I change .emacs on one
computer it gets updated on the others where I have syncthing.

Other stuff I want synchronized, but rarely, such as music or
photographs, I synchronize manually with rsync.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: A file synchronization tool that respects hardlinks

[Itay]

On Sun, 22 Oct 2023, at 21:10, Charles Curley wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 17:40:43 +0300
> Itay  wrote:
>
>> According to wikipedia[4] the following tools are bidirectional:
>>  FreeFileSync / NextCloud / Owncloud / SyncThing
>> Please -- can someone quickly tell me if they respect hardlinks?
>> Or recommend another tool(s) that respect hardlinks?
>
> I can tell you that nextcloud and syncthing do not appear to respect
> hard links. They will copy two hard linked files (the same inode), but
> on the receiving computer the files will not be hard linked.
>
> I suspect the same for owncloud, as nextcloud is a fork of owncloud.
>

Thank you.  Your answer narrows down the options to FreeFileSync.
I'll search the documentation.

> -- 
> Does anybody read signatures any more?
>
> https://charlescurley.com
> https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: A file synchronization tool that respects hardlinks

[Itay]

On Sun, 22 Oct 2023, at 20:38, Michael Kjörling wrote:
> On 22 Oct 2023 17:40 +0300, from deb...@itayf.fastmail.fm (Itay):
>> The sync must be bidirectional and *respect hardlinks* because many
>> subdirs are kept under the control of darcs[1] which by default uses
>> hardlinks. The sync tool I used in the past, unison[2], does not
>> respect hardlinks[3].
>
> What do you mean by "respect hardlinks"? To preserve the multiple
> names as pointing to the same file system object (inode in classic
> *nix parlace)?
>

Exactly.  As 'rsync -H' does.

> -- 
> Michael Kjörling  https://michael.kjorling.se
> “Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

Re: A file synchronization tool that respects hardlinks

[Itay]

On Sun, 22 Oct 2023, at 20:36, Michael Kjörling wrote:
> On 22 Oct 2023 10:32 -0700, from dalgoda+deb...@gmail.com 
>  (Mike Castle):
>> rsync supports hardlinks.
>> 
>> --hard-links, -H preserve hard links
>
> It does, but on the other hand it's very hard to wrangle rsync into
> doing safe bidirectional syncing. At least I didn't find a way to do
> that, which led me to eventually settle on unison for where I need
> bidirectional sync.
>

Same here.  But this was before I started using darcs...
Thanks for the answer.

> -- 
> Michael Kjörling  https://michael.kjorling.se
> “Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

Re: A file synchronization tool that respects hardlinks

[Itay]

On Sun, 22 Oct 2023, at 20:32, Mike Castle wrote:
> rsync supports hardlinks.
>
> --hard-links, -H preserve hard links
>

Yes.  This is what I use for unidirectional syncing.

> Though, in general, the purpose of something like darcs is to
> *provide* the syncing.
>

True.  But my home dir includes many subdirs that are not under darcs control.

Thanks for the answer.

> mrc

Re: A file synchronization tool that respects hardlinks

[Charles Curley]

On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 17:40:43 +0300
Itay  wrote:

> According to wikipedia[4] the following tools are bidirectional:
>  FreeFileSync / NextCloud / Owncloud / SyncThing
> Please -- can someone quickly tell me if they respect hardlinks?
> Or recommend another tool(s) that respect hardlinks?

I can tell you that nextcloud and syncthing do not appear to respect
hard links. They will copy two hard linked files (the same inode), but
on the receiving computer the files will not be hard linked.

I suspect the same for owncloud, as nextcloud is a fork of owncloud.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: A file synchronization tool that respects hardlinks

[Michael Kjörling]

On 22 Oct 2023 17:40 +0300, from deb...@itayf.fastmail.fm (Itay):
> The sync must be bidirectional and *respect hardlinks* because many
> subdirs are kept under the control of darcs[1] which by default uses
> hardlinks. The sync tool I used in the past, unison[2], does not
> respect hardlinks[3].

What do you mean by "respect hardlinks"? To preserve the multiple
names as pointing to the same file system object (inode in classic
*nix parlace)?

-- 
Michael Kjörling  https://michael.kjorling.se
“Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

Re: A file synchronization tool that respects hardlinks

[Michael Kjörling]

On 22 Oct 2023 10:32 -0700, from dalgoda+deb...@gmail.com (Mike Castle):
> rsync supports hardlinks.
> 
> --hard-links, -H preserve hard links

It does, but on the other hand it's very hard to wrangle rsync into
doing safe bidirectional syncing. At least I didn't find a way to do
that, which led me to eventually settle on unison for where I need
bidirectional sync.

-- 
Michael Kjörling  https://michael.kjorling.se
“Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

Re: A file synchronization tool that respects hardlinks

[Mike Castle]

rsync supports hardlinks.

--hard-links, -H preserve hard links

Though, in general, the purpose of something like darcs is to
*provide* the syncing.

mrc