Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 4:38 AM, Neal Murphy neal.p.mur...@alum.wpi.edu wrote: Since most users are not experts, they deserve to have 'the right tools' at their fingertips. And this is necessary if Linux is made to be used in every home like earlier Windows was being used! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAHBpLRMLC-i2SpAcnpjmoVmopgEuGvk6LEe=o8dqahft6cm...@mail.gmail.com
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Sat, 2013-12-07 at 20:15 +0530, AP wrote: And this is necessary if Linux is made to be used in every home like earlier Windows was being used! Linux isn't an opponent to other OSes. It's an alternative with advantages and drawbacks and it needs knowledge about our individual needs for ourself to chose what way we will go. There is no competition. Only idiots draw their worldview in a way that something is only evil or only good. For sure the Linux philosophy is more ethical in an occidental, Old Greek morally point of view, but as you can see, when reading all threads, even the understanding of logic, defined more than 2000 years ago, is questioned when it comes to name the first panel panel one or panel zero. Linux is not a competitor to Microsoft, Apple or even other free *nix e.g. as BSD. It's something on it's own. The only competitors are Microsoft and Apple. We shouldn't care about them. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1386428291.2811.49.camel@archlinux
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 8:28 PM, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: Linux isn't an opponent to other OSes. Agreed and one should not be. But if such utilities which can be easily used by end users, then its a plus point and really good. Anything tough is that every knows its typical to understand but making the complicated very simple, awesome simple -- that's creativity! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/cahbplro60vfonwdt3heau5co78kzduze15rv7fsdaznusgg...@mail.gmail.com
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Sat, 7 Dec 2013 20:15:55 +0530 AP worldwithoutfen...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 4:38 AM, Neal Murphy neal.p.mur...@alum.wpi.edu wrote: Since most users are not experts, they deserve to have 'the right tools' at their fingertips. And this is necessary if Linux is made to be used in every home like earlier Windows was being used! To be honest, we really don't want that. Newcomers to Linux bring their Windows habits with them (I certainly did) but if it is only a few at a time, they only harm themselves, and learn from the experience. Not only do we really not want to need Linux anti-virus software, we don't want to see the attitude of Windows software writers brought to Linux. If I install something from the Debian repository, I expect it to do exactly what it says on the tin *and* *nothing* *else*. I don't want to have to read through pages of legal garbage, and scrutinise every default-set tick-box to avoid having spyware, adware and other stuff sneaked into my computer, or unwanted add-ins and toolbars poured into my web browser. -- Joe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20131207170049.295d1...@jretrading.com
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
Den 07. des. 2013 18:00, skrev Joe: I don't want to have to read through pages of legal garbage, and scrutinise every default-set tick-box to avoid having spyware, adware and other stuff sneaked into my computer, or unwanted add-ins and toolbars poured into my web browser. The reason why most people don't have Linux-distros on their home box is because no-one is forcing people to use it. Linux-distros are decentralized projects with no intention of making any money and therefore no need to make people using it. Geeks, like me, often ends up with Linux because they want to be the computers boss, not the computers slave. I feel for adding a few things about user-friendlyness. Debian does not come with any centralized registry which helps all this trash Joe talks about to hide away. Windows puts preferences of installed programs, Windows itself, information about file types, hardware +++ into this registry file which just grows and grows every week making your box slower and slower, ultimatly forcing you to re-install everything. This registry is the root of all evil on Windows, let me compare Microsofts solutions using the registry with Debians methods. In Debian, there's in very few cases any need to install or configure any hardware drivers, everything is fixed for you automagically every boot. You can take a hard drive with Debian out from one box and move it to another box with different hardware, and it'll just auto-detect everything when you boot it. That's user friendly. Windows would have needed to 'install' loads of drivers (install == putting more garbage into the registry) on the first boot, you would need to download loads of drivers for graphics, sound etc. (more registry pollution) and then you would need to buy another licence because Gates detects that the hardware is different. Every program in Debian is itself responsible for storing it's own settings, usually in the per-user home directories (Firefox puts stuff in /home/xxx/.mozilla for instance). If you want to delete the Firefox settings, just delete the folder. In Windows, you have no easy way to remove a programs preferences. A Debian package is mostly just an archive with some files in it. When a package is installed, the files are copied to the file system. If the program needs to start on boot, like a server, it puts startup scripts into dedicated directories. Some programs also have configuration files, usually located in /etc/. When the package is removed, the files are deleted. When you install or uninstall a program on Windows, you have no guarantee that the people who made the software have writes their uninstall code properly. Many programs leaves loads of stuff behind (registry trash) when uninstalled. Debian provides a set of high quality packages which properly cleans up after themselves on uninstall. Atle. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52a35cdf.7000...@goliathdns.no
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 11:07 PM, Atle Solbakken a...@goliathdns.no wrote: The reason why most people don't have Linux-distros on their home box is because no-one is forcing people to use it. Linux-distros are decentralized projects with no intention of making any money and therefore no need to make people using it. Geeks, like me, often ends up with Linux because they want to be the computers boss, not the computers slave. I feel for adding a few things about user-friendlyness. Debian does not come with any centralized registry which helps all this trash Joe talks about to hide away. Windows puts preferences of installed programs, Windows itself, information about file types, hardware +++ into this registry file which just grows and grows every week making your box slower and slower, ultimatly forcing you to re-install everything. This registry is the root of all evil on Windows, let me compare Microsofts solutions using the registry with Debians methods. In Debian, there's in very few cases any need to install or configure any hardware drivers, everything is fixed for you automagically every boot. You can take a hard drive with Debian out from one box and move it to another box with different hardware, and it'll just auto-detect everything when you boot it. That's user friendly. Windows would have needed to 'install' loads of drivers (install == putting more garbage into the registry) on the first boot, you would need to download loads of drivers for graphics, sound etc. (more registry pollution) and then you would need to buy another licence because Gates detects that the hardware is different. Every program in Debian is itself responsible for storing it's own settings, usually in the per-user home directories (Firefox puts stuff in /home/xxx/.mozilla for instance). If you want to delete the Firefox settings, just delete the folder. In Windows, you have no easy way to remove a programs preferences. A Debian package is mostly just an archive with some files in it. When a package is installed, the files are copied to the file system. If the program needs to start on boot, like a server, it puts startup scripts into dedicated directories. Some programs also have configuration files, usually located in /etc/. When the package is removed, the files are deleted. When you install or uninstall a program on Windows, you have no guarantee that the people who made the software have writes their uninstall code properly. Many programs leaves loads of stuff behind (registry trash) when uninstalled. Debian provides a set of high quality packages which properly cleans up after themselves on uninstall. Thanks for this great explanation Atle. But using Debian would require a user to know such basic aspects before hand and it is expectedI hope in the future, Linux would be more and more popular every whereI wonder why I was using Windows! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAHBpLRPByM7Lgu8+-a=ateRthjX_vk=cehsvecptap9txw8...@mail.gmail.com
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On 11/25/2013 02:38 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: On Sun, 2013-11-24 at 23:04 +0530, AP wrote: DEB vs RPM This are 2 of several formats that are handled by package managers. I prefer DEB over RPM, but what I like the most, is the package format used by Arch Linux. Yes, Linux is the kernel, but the word Linux usually is used for a complete install, kernel and user space too. Distros can differ. Very common is that they use different startup processes, Debian does use initscripts by default, IMO the best, Ubuntu does use upstart and most major distros nowadays use systemd. We need to know more about your skills and what you want to do using Linux. Even then we might have different opinions what distro is the best one to use. If you have special needs, such as CNC, then the choice isn't that large, if you need the computer for mailing, web browsing, office work, then the available distros are many and what distro is the best, is much harder to tell. IMO the only good hint I can give, is to use a major distro with a huge community. I'm not using Debian myself at the moment, but IMO it's a good distro to start and perhaps to stay with it forever, or after a while to take a look for a distro, that might fit better to your needs. With the knowledge you will have after a while, a decision is easier. Regards, Ralf i'll admit that I am really really partial to Debian for several reasons. Unlike in days of old, the network install disk is very good. Bypassing the default Gnome installation is probably the only problem ( Go to custom install for KDE). I am not familiar with the other desktops so can not comment. Aptitude file manager works as either a GUI or command line program. I use it both ways depending on what I am doing. Aptitude GUI for a complete system update and command line for one or two program installations. I find that going to the Debian web page and search for programs is far more efficient than trying to find them on a package manager's list. The strongest points for Debian in my estimation is its fantastic system update capability and its rock solid reliability of the stable (wheezy) version. The backport feature allows the use of many testing level programs on a stable installation if you need to go there for some reason. In a linux, open source system the software is constantly changing with minor improvements and bug fixes so there can be 2 or 3 changes a day in your software. Many of these are security fixes that are important. With RPM's it is very hard to stay on top of such changes. With Debian it is a no brainer. Hope this helps. One persons biased view. Gary R. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52a370e2.9020...@verizon.net
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 12:32 AM, Gary Roach gary719_li...@verizon.net wrote: In a linux, open source system the software is constantly changing with minor improvements and bug fixes so there can be 2 or 3 changes a day in your software. Many of these are security fixes that are important. With RPM's it is very hard to stay on top of such changes. With Debian it is a no brainer. Well, agreed but RPM also updates all thatAnd in Debian, I think we have to download the whole package again for newer updates whereas in RPM it just downloads the required patches. Both (DEB or RPM) are thus fully updated. But why there is a barrier in RPM if you say -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/cahbplrobqq_o-nme72rh9ckjcx3arxyxsxp7y2catpj0tmn...@mail.gmail.com
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Tue, 2013-11-26 at 16:58 -0500, Doug wrote: On 11/26/2013 03:22 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: On 11/27/13, Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: On Sunday 24 November 2013 19:20:47 Doug wrote: On 11/24/2013 12:34 PM, AP wrote: [snip] (i) Which Distribution: [snip] (ii) DEB vs RPM [snip] The other differentiator is the package manager. I have a very strong opinion here: the package manager MUST display the available programs that you can choose from. That statement is a very contentious one, and one with which I disagree. I have not infrequently been using Synaptic on a computer I administer, torn my hair out and switched to Aptitude to solve a problem. If it doesn't, you will have to have a list from somewhere. The idea of using apt-get-install filename is just beyond my belief. Beyond your belief? So you do not believe that there are many of us who _like_ the command line? You may not like it, but many do. Doug, are you thinking apt-get install packagename or dpkg install filename? The latter is rarely used (even by 'power' users) these days, and the former is not what you wrote - perhaps this clarifies something useful for someone. Enjoy Zenaan Maybe I have it wrong--I refer to having to install knowing a priori the name of the package you want to install. And I have _never_ had a problem with Synaptic. Using it for at least 4 years now. I'm not afraid of the command line, I use it frequently. -doug -- Blessed are the peacemakers..for they shall be shot at from both sides. --A.M.Greeley errr WTF?! How are you supposed to install something which you don't know? Maybe $ apt-get moo would do the job. -- André N. Batista GNUPG/PGP KEY: 6722CF80 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1386364436.27052.63.camel@tagesuhu-pc
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Fri, 2013-12-06 at 19:13 -0200, André Nunes Batista wrote: On Tue, 2013-11-26 at 16:58 -0500, Doug wrote: Maybe I have it wrong--I refer to having to install knowing a priori the name of the package you want to install. And I have _never_ had a problem with Synaptic. Using it for at least 4 years now. I'm not afraid of the command line, I use it frequently. errr WTF?! How are you supposed to install something which you don't know? If you e.g. know that there is a package with a calculator, that does interpret the . key on the num pad as ., even if it's a ,, but you don't remember the name of the package, then it's more intuitive to use synaptic's mouse-click search, than to use apt/dpkg by CLI and a search syntax, if you're not used to do it, because you seldom need to do it. Even if you remember that you want a special editor, there might no package available for the editor, but a package with a collection of tools including this editor. To click and type a search term for many _users_ is easier to do than to remember a command they only need once every 2 years and than to add a cryptic search syntax. This is how I understand to install something we don't know. Regards, Ralf -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1386366911.1330.13.camel@archlinux
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Friday, December 06, 2013 04:55:11 PM Ralf Mardorf wrote: To click and type a search term for many _users_ is easier to do than to remember a command they only need once every 2 years and than to add a cryptic search syntax. This is a very good statement, one worth rephrasing: It is much easier for most users to click and type a search term than it is for them to remember a command or cryptic search syntax that they use only once every couple years. It is an essential element of the study of Human Factors in Computing. This is part of 'use the right tool for the job' philosophy. For the most part, aptitude works well for me. But there are times I need something that is in a package, but I don't know *which* package. I'd gladly use a touch-n-feel interface for this purpose if it saves me a couple hours of chasing down something I can't quite remember. Since most users are not experts, they deserve to have 'the right tools' at their fingertips. And they deserve to have tools whose authors acknowledge other tools' strength. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201312061808.00608.neal.p.mur...@alum.wpi.edu
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On 12/06/2013 04:13 PM, André Nunes Batista wrote: On Tue, 2013-11-26 at 16:58 -0500, Doug wrote: On 11/26/2013 03:22 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: On 11/27/13, Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: On Sunday 24 November 2013 19:20:47 Doug wrote: On 11/24/2013 12:34 PM, AP wrote: [snip] (i) Which Distribution: [snip] (ii) DEB vs RPM [snip] The other differentiator is the package manager. I have a very strong opinion here: the package manager MUST display the available programs that you can choose from. That statement is a very contentious one, and one with which I disagree. I have not infrequently been using Synaptic on a computer I administer, torn my hair out and switched to Aptitude to solve a problem. If it doesn't, you will have to have a list from somewhere. The idea of using apt-get-install filename is just beyond my belief. Beyond your belief? So you do not believe that there are many of us who _like_ the command line? You may not like it, but many do. Doug, are you thinking apt-get install packagename or dpkg install filename? The latter is rarely used (even by 'power' users) these days, and the former is not what you wrote - perhaps this clarifies something useful for someone. Enjoy Zenaan Maybe I have it wrong--I refer to having to install knowing a priori the name of the package you want to install. And I have _never_ had a problem with Synaptic. Using it for at least 4 years now. I'm not afraid of the command line, I use it frequently. -doug -- Blessed are the peacemakers..for they shall be shot at from both sides. --A.M.Greeley errr WTF?! How are you supposed to install something which you don't know? /snip/ Yes, that's the whole point! Some file manager systems do _not_ provide file names. --doug -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52a2b08c.6040...@optonline.net
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Wednesday, December 04, 2013 01:19:04 PM Jerry Stuckle wrote: It varies somewhat by release, but it's under Options in the Tools menu entry. Ok well. -- Regards, AP -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/2177361.t3ch8mg...@linux-5rxn.site
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Wednesday 04 December 2013 19:41:57 Brian wrote: On Wed 04 Dec 2013 at 13:19:04 -0500, Jerry Stuckle wrote: A lot of your questions can be answered by just looking though the various menu items, especially Tools-Options. AP is on a roll; all attention is focused on him/her. There is no need to stop the fingers typing because there will always be some helpful and considerate person to answer. When people stop responding he/she will disappear. It will seem like a bad dream. In Barnsley he/she would be accused of taking the piss. Here is AP's own take on this: quote On Wednesday, December 04, 2013 04:02:19 PM Lisi wrote: I didn't mind trying to help you off list. But you are hogging the list and you are not even using Debian. I am not hogging but I can use Debian in the future...I can have more than one computer and preferably can install Debian in the other...But in a world without money, who needs specific...? So what...? Then I won't use KMail..? Or KDE is won't be there in the Debian...? These questions would remain as these are which are basically distro independent...isnt' it...? I mailed you considering you to be knowledgeable...but I know the human tendencies.Its okay but I didn't anticipated what you wrote I posted the suggestion that we should end this thread...When you know that you had enhanced the private messaging, still you blamed me...? You nulfile someone, but I can say this toobut I didn'tEven Linus Torvalds didn't ever such words to anyone...then we are small in comparision and have no right actually /quote -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201312050901.07246.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
AP writes: Having cookies in Firefox is not an issue because websites cannot work without it. Not true in general. The vast majority of the sites I use work fine with no cookies (and without scripts). -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87zjogn2gx@thumper.dhh.gt.org
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Wednesday, December 04, 2013 07:57:18 AM John Hasler wrote: Not true in general. The vast majority of the sites I use work fine with no cookies (and without scripts). I meant in general and most of the websites means websites like youtube, facebook, google, dictionary, pogo, yahoo which end users use most of the times. -- Regards, AP -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1395765.vplzmzs...@linux-5rxn.site
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
AP writes: I meant in general and most of the websites means websites like youtube, facebook, google, dictionary, pogo, yahoo which end users use most of the times. Youtube requires scripts but not cookies. Google search requires neither. Wiktionary requires neither. Visiting public Facebook pages requires neither. Yahoo search requires neither. -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87vbz4n0uc@thumper.dhh.gt.org
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On 12/3/2013 11:40 PM, AP wrote: On Tuesday, December 03, 2013 01:15:21 PM Jerry Stuckle wrote: And exactly what is wrong with using cookies on a bank transaction? In fact, all banks I know of need to use cookies to manage signons. It's how the bank (or any site that uses signons) knows which computer is signed on. You obviously don't understand how cookies work and how they are needed on websites. No. Actually what I was in impression of was that there are LSOs which collect the user's information, like which websites they visit so often, what type of things they like to surf so that it aids in their marketing strategy (by whatsoever method...) and thus even if it breaks a millionth part of privacy, its a concern then! Yes, these are the marketing sites I referred to earlier. But cookies are domain-dependent (barring a huge security hole in the browser), and can only be sent to a system on the same domain that originated it. Some marketers get companies to allow the marketers to add HTML which allows the marketers to install cookies from the marketer's domain (third party cookies). It's the only way you can be tracked across different sites and be tracked. Having cookies in Firefox is not an issue because websites cannot work without it. Like even one cannot open Gmail. It say cookies disabled but the crisis generates when cookies reside permanently. Thank God, I found the option Delete cookies as soon as I close Firefox so that they remain active untill the duration I have opend any instance of Firefox and diappear afterwards permanently. Installing Better Privacy Add-on servers the same purpose though. I came to know this. Still I would be interested to know if I am in absolutely wrong impression. I keep cookies, because they're also used for other things. For instance, the Remember me checkbox on a site will store a cookie on your system which contains your userid and password (hopefully encrypted!). That way I don't have to sign on manually every time I visit a site. I do have third-party cookies disabled, however, and do check my cookies at times just to see what is there. -- == Remove the x from my email address Jerry Stuckle JDS Computer Training Corp. jstuck...@attglobal.net == -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/529f41d5.4050...@attglobal.net
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Wednesday, December 04, 2013 08:32:27 AM John Hasler wrote: Youtube requires scripts but not cookies. Google search requires neither. Wiktionary requires neither. Visiting public Facebook pages requires neither. Yahoo search requires neither. Then I need to correct myself. I was in wrong impression really. Thanks for clariying this!! -- Regards, AP -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/8252238.fbfwm8j...@linux-5rxn.site
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Wednesday, December 04, 2013 09:53:09 AM Jerry Stuckle wrote: I keep cookies, because they're also used for other things. For instance, the Remember me checkbox on a site will store a cookie on your system which contains your userid and password (hopefully encrypted!). That way I don't have to sign on manually every time I visit a site. I do have third-party cookies disabled, however, and do check my cookies at times just to see what is there. Fair reasons. -- Regards, AP -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/2708593.mei6l2u...@linux-5rxn.site
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
Lisi wrote: I shall now null-file you as I have done with Ralph. I have had enough of your unpleasantness. I was had any unpleasantness with you but okay.Better is to confabulate over lists, at least with you. -- Regards, AP -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/2150332.dcftvyf...@linux-5rxn.site
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Wednesday, December 04, 2013 08:45:26 PM you wrote: Lisi wrote: I shall now null-file you as I have done with Ralph. I have had enough of your unpleasantness. I was had any unpleasantness with you but okay.Better is to confabulate over lists, at least with you. Correction: I meant I never had any unpleasant with you which you have with me or with Ralph. -- Regards, AP -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1560478.dlbsknc...@linux-5rxn.site
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Wednesday 04 December 2013 14:19:25 AP wrote: On Wednesday, December 04, 2013 08:45:26 PM you wrote: Lisi wrote: I shall now null-file you as I have done with Ralph. I have had enough of your unpleasantness. I was had any unpleasantness with you but okay.Better is to confabulate over lists, at least with you. Correction: I meant I never had any unpleasant with you which you have with me or with Ralph. Tit for tat?? It is in the code of conduct that private messages should not be posted on list. Especially some time after I thought that we had resolved the differences. :-/ As I said, I had un-null-filed you. This really isn't relevant to Debian and shouldn't be on list. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201312041533.16640.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Wednesday, December 04, 2013 03:28:20 PM you wrote: It is in the code of conduct that private messages should not be posted on list. Especiallly some time after I thought that we had resolved the differences. :-/ As I said, I had un-null-filed you. This really isn't relevant to Debian and shouldn't be on list. Yeah that's why you and I confabulated otherwise but you say all this on lists, so this should not be there -- Regards, AP -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4546057.sntqsp9...@linux-5rxn.site
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
AP writes: Then I need to correct myself. I was in wrong impression really. Thanks for clariying this!! Note that all of the sites I mentioned attempt to send cookies and run scripts, and try to convince you that by refusing them you are missing out on something terribly important. Most sites do this. In most cases they work fine if you ignore them. In most cases where they don't taking your business elsewhere works fine. In many cases cookies are justified. In a few scripts are. Third-party cookies are never justified. I have had sites attempt to shove as many as fifty cookies at me. I never go back to them. -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87ob4wmurk@thumper.dhh.gt.org
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
Jerry writes: I keep cookies, because they're also used for other things. For instance, the Remember me checkbox on a site will store a cookie on your system which contains your userid and password (hopefully encrypted!). That way I don't have to sign on manually every time I visit a site. You can selectively whitelist sites. For logins, however, I just let Iceweasel store usernames and passwords and log me in automatically. -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87k3fkmumb@thumper.dhh.gt.org
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Wednesday, December 04, 2013 10:43:43 AM John Hasler wrote: Note that all of the sites I mentioned attempt to send cookies and run scripts, and try to convince you that by refusing them you are missing out on something terribly important. Most sites do this. In most cases they work fine if you ignore them. In most cases where they don't taking your business elsewhere works fine. But earlier you said they don't store cookies on PC...Ok you mean they ask? In many cases cookies are justified. In a few scripts are. Third-party cookies are never justified. I have had sites attempt to shove as many as fifty cookies at me. I never go back to them. Yeah ok. -- Regards, AP -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/11457231.j2asfai...@linux-5rxn.site
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
AP writes: But earlier you said they don't store cookies on PC...Ok you mean they ask? They offer cookies but continue to allow access when you refuse them. Other ways to handle unwanted cookies (which Firefox/Iceweasel doesn't offer) is to either accept the cookie and save it to /dev/null or delete it when the tab is closed (Delete at end of session does not suffice as I often leave Iceweasel running for weeks). -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87fvq8ms0v@thumper.dhh.gt.org
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Wednesday 04 December 2013 17:42:56 John Hasler wrote: AP writes: But earlier you said they don't store cookies on PC...Ok you mean they ask? They offer cookies but continue to allow access when you refuse them. Other ways to handle unwanted cookies (which Firefox/Iceweasel doesn't offer) is to either accept the cookie and save it to /dev/null or delete it when the tab is closed (Delete at end of session does not suffice as I often leave Iceweasel running for weeks). This thread has now been going on for 11 days. And not intermittently for 11 days, but full on with loads of emails every day. It becomes less and less relevant to Debian, since Debian is simply not in question any more. Can't we just drop it, folks? Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201312041756.17318.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On 12/4/2013 11:46 AM, John Hasler wrote: Jerry writes: I keep cookies, because they're also used for other things. For instance, the Remember me checkbox on a site will store a cookie on your system which contains your userid and password (hopefully encrypted!). That way I don't have to sign on manually every time I visit a site. You can selectively whitelist sites. For logins, however, I just let Iceweasel store usernames and passwords and log me in automatically. Yes, I know I can whitelist sites. But I visit a lot of different business-related sites in the course of a month. Trying to keep track of every one is tough. As for the logins - I also let the browser store usernames and passwords (encrypted, of course). But it also means I have to go through one additional screen to fill in the blanks. Just one more hassle. I have no problems with sites storing non-third-party cookies on my system. Jerry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/529f6dcc.5020...@attglobal.net
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Wednesday, December 04, 2013 01:00:44 PM Jerry Stuckle wrote: As for the logins - I also let the browser store usernames and passwords (encrypted, of course). How this particular step you achieve? -- Regards, AP -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/2975868.ktmnhtg...@linux-5rxn.site
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Wednesday, December 04, 2013 11:42:56 AM John Hasler wrote: But earlier you said they don't store cookies on PC...Ok you mean they ask? They offer cookies but continue to allow access when you refuse them. Well this is okay...Just refuse and still surf...:-) Other ways to handle unwanted cookies (which Firefox/Iceweasel doesn't offer) is to either accept the cookie and save it to /dev/null or delete it when the tab is closed (Delete at end of session does not suffice as I often leave Iceweasel running for weeks). Oh if you let the browser open for weeks, then certainly it won't work for youI shut down the PC after an hour or two...(I am only an end user...), so okay... -- Regards, AP -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/5312268.8aws5rm...@linux-5rxn.site
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
Lisi writes: Can't we just drop it Can't you just killfile it? -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/8738m8mqfi@thumper.dhh.gt.org
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On 12/4/2013 12:08 PM, AP wrote: On Wednesday, December 04, 2013 01:00:44 PM Jerry Stuckle wrote: As for the logins - I also let the browser store usernames and passwords (encrypted, of course). How this particular step you achieve? It varies somewhat by release, but it's under Options in the Tools menu entry. A lot of your questions can be answered by just looking though the various menu items, especially Tools-Options. Jerry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/529f7218.6020...@attglobal.net
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
John Hasler grabbed a keyboard and wrote: Lisi writes: Can't we just drop it Can't you just killfile it? She shouldn't have to. THIS list is for discussing things that are directly related to Debian Linux. What mail program you want to use for this, that, and the other doesn't even remotely qualify. We have a Debian Off-Topic mailing list for *exactly* these kinds of discussions - Debian users chatting about more general Linux issues. --Dave smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
Lisi Reisz grabbed a keyboard and wrote: This thread has now been going on for 11 days. And not intermittently for 11 days, but full on with loads of emails every day. It becomes less and less relevant to Debian, since Debian is simply not in question any more. Can't we just drop it, folks? Or, if you're really wanting to keep it going, PLEASE take it to the off-topic list: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic That is, after all, why it exists. :-) --Dave smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Wed 04 Dec 2013 at 13:19:04 -0500, Jerry Stuckle wrote: A lot of your questions can be answered by just looking though the various menu items, especially Tools-Options. AP is on a roll; all attention is focused on him/her. There is no need to stop the fingers typing because there will always be some helpful and considerate person to answer. When people stop responding he/she will disappear. It will seem like a bad dream. In Barnsley he/she would be accused of taking the piss. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20131204194157.gd5...@copernicus.demon.co.uk
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Wed 04 Dec 2013 at 12:17:21 -0600, John Hasler wrote: Lisi writes: Can't we just drop it Can't you just killfile it? Show her concern for the well-being and usefulness of this list by ignoring behaviour which disrupts its intended purpose? That requires a bit of thought. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20131204194222.ge5...@copernicus.demon.co.uk
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
Ralf Mardorf wrote: Robert Holtzman wrote: AP wrote: ...snip... It is really wonder to know that Debian doesn't include them because of yet another war of licensewhatever...If the actual code is free, still such issues arise is a wonder to think! I now think that KMail must be a bit less resourceful than Thunderbird. Debian does include them. It renamed them to keep from violating mozilla's trademark. Firefox is iceweasel. Thunderbird is icedove. If Debian would include them from upstream as they are, they could call them Firefox and Thunderbird as quasi every other Linux distro does. But as already pointed out several times before, you are not allowed to change a single thing, not even to stay away from Google for the startpage for the first start. Thunderbird opens (at least opened) with advertisings, when started for the very first time, what Debian software opens with advertisings? It was really about the nonfree logos. A painful situation. You can read all about it here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceweasel And for deeper details... http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=354622 Bob Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come. -- Matt Groening signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Tue, 2013-12-03 at 01:21 -0700, Bob Proulx wrote: It was really about the nonfree logos. A painful situation. You can read all about it here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceweasel I know the story, but I wasn't aware about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Iceweasel_13.png The Iceweasel logo, but the _Google_ text is: Thanks for choosing Firefox! What would happen, if a Debian packager would make Iceweasel start with about:blank instead of Google? Some time ago I decided to contribute to Linux by building packages (not for Debian), but then I didn't, because I'm not willing to become a lawyer. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1386060716.2402.6.camel@archlinux
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Ma, 03 dec 13, 07:56:50, Ralf Mardorf wrote: On Mon, 2013-12-02 at 20:15 +, Lisi Reisz wrote: I always install Thunderbird if I am setting up a Windows box for someone. Well, I did when I still had to have contact with Windows. And the same for Firefox. Now that Google Chrome is available and is cross-platform, I would offer both. Firefox and Thunderbird are a good choice _for Windows_, another good choice is Opera. Both Claws and Sylpheed work fine under Windows. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 9:44 PM, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: I used it for years, it was and likely is excellent, but not a native Linux app and as already mentioned before, I dislike the Mozilla policy. Well, I would say some people like the Mozilla policy and some not. Its personalthough. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAHBpLRM7J3w1BDH745eV-eGn_LC1zn3fRUeUfHdpnT=7-n5...@mail.gmail.com
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 9:52 PM, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: Phishing = faked web sites that ask you to give passwords etc. have nothing to do with the used operating system. Oh I see. Attacks that use buffer overflows and other bugs or weak points are the less likely, the less the software is used. You for sure won't find backdoors in open source code, backdoors for the NSA, for marketing etc. are exclusive provided by Microsoft and Apple and _closed_ source for Linux. Linux servers are as often attacked as other servers too. Linux audio web sites very often where hacked. Then phishing activates only when one types the credentials into the fraud login prompts and if we just don't login on those fake pages -- we are free from Phishing attacks I guess. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/cahbplrpn9frupmhvdj3qdjc-9byqp-h91vd5uondhphfuok...@mail.gmail.com
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 10:24 PM, y...@marupa.net wrote: Personally, I use KMail. It's a lot less resource intensive than Thunderbird (Called Icedove in Debian.), does the job well, and integrates with KDE SC, including Plasma and Kontact. Thunderbird doesn't integrate well even in native GTK+ environments. Oh I see. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAHBpLRPg0wgtZjiX3i5O__F-Hee_5TDFTT3hu5mG=5n_aqb...@mail.gmail.com
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 9:30 PM, Doug McGarrett dmcgarr...@optonline.net wrote: Thunderbird is excellent. Have been using it exclusively for several years, ever since KMail screwed me by printing about 5% of my incoming mail in some Asian script that could not be recovered into English. Oh I see. Anyways, you confirm that Thunderbird must be given a trial. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAHBpLRPkHw_vsR_E9A4irsJVnQ-kGhTZjgn1tt3Ju=kr9uj...@mail.gmail.com
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 10:26 PM, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: Mozilla software is excellent regarding to technically aspects, but not regarding to freedom. Your mean privacy? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/cahbplrmtlzst1hbn9b-ta11ru5fxlz4-vsav2h8sc+jqyw0...@mail.gmail.com
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 10:36 PM, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: Yes, millions of hackers are looking at the code too, not only the good guys ;). It's more interesting to find _and use_ the one and only security whole to get access to the French military and your private mails and data, than to find one of the thousands security wholes for a MUA used by a handful of computer freaks and your private mails and data. But then developers should create such clients which have such codes that are typical to hack or not possible to hackelse end users would come into trouble. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAHBpLRNjowAV5pN=OT=SL9=jwxb0g8f96yrjvvpzqx2r-wu...@mail.gmail.com
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 11:19 PM, Doug McGarrett dmcgarr...@optonline.net wrote: And just sacrifice something else useful to the great god FOSS! Yeah, FOSS is computer's God nowadays;)- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/cahbplroe3kwttg3mvhvmmzkh0ukmbdja0lesqnxoydsapr_...@mail.gmail.com
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 11:21 PM, y...@marupa.net wrote: I prefer Google anyway, though, as I have yet to see a search engine that works nearly as well. I know a lot of people rave about Duck Duck Go, but every time I use it it loves to bring up results in an order that doesn't hit the same sort of relevance as Google. But Google using my search for advertising doesn't bother me. Google is great I agree but only it should not collect one's personal information (whatever that info might be) -- if it collects thatElse, I have no issues with Google, after all its the greatest search engine! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAHBpLRPik0NYuHZOWuFHx8npMZr3P+YW=r9ymt1jxblrwbk...@mail.gmail.com
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 1:15 AM, Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: In the end, suck it and see. No email client is perfect. Most are good. How many people use it is not necessarily a good criterion. Think of Outlook and Outlook Express! I agree with you Lisi that no email client is 100% perfect and the most of them are good because all work. Perhaps choose a DE or WM first and use that choice to inform your choice of email client. The matching one will use up fewer extra resources. Or better options is to install in the main distribution one by one. Like using one for one week and then trying next -- it gives a feel too! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAHBpLROKMR9Zrhh2uka=GhmS=u54N6XQ-j4-=sdgg5vzlnl...@mail.gmail.com
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 1:28 AM, John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com wrote: The email clients continuously emulate each other... Except for Gnus. Why this is an exception? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAHBpLRPh+5WdpSNW2f3S+E5zwBDP=4k7i8g0pihsrzfbgp_...@mail.gmail.com
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 1:26 AM, Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: Roughly, Mozilla said that they had to have the last word on anything going out under their copyright. Debian said taht they had to have the last word on any packages going into the official repositories. These two were incompatible. So they agreed to differ. Debian agreed not to use the copyrighted/trademarked names: Firefox, Thunderbird, SeaMonkey etc.. They were removed from all the software packages going into Debian. (Well, in theory at least! There were/are traces taht got missed.) Debian uses the Open Source Mozilla applications, but calls them Iceweasel, Icedove, IceApe etc. Oh I see. And people use both of them! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/cahbplrpzzlg3d1b15vx4-dxnhwnnpmhd5t0lccnvhdfgvjv...@mail.gmail.com
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 1:45 AM, Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, I have experience of it. It is good email client. But I personally do not like it as much as many people do. It used to be much better for newbies than other clients, but I think that that is no longer true. Depending on circumstances, it is a plus point that it is available for several OS's. It can be useful if someone is reluctant to leave Windows. Change over to Linux is less traumatic if someone can use it first in Windows and continue to use the same applications in Linux. I always install Thunderbird if I am setting up a Windows box for someone. Well, I did when I still had to have contact with Windows. And the same for Firefox. Now that Google Chrome is available and is cross-platform, I would offer both. I used to install Thunderbird for newbies whose boxen I was administering. I still have one person using Thunderbird. He has adapted it to his needs and obviously wants to stick with it. But it is not what I now install. You cannot go wrong with it, but I do not think that it is the best. It has, however got a lot of add-ons, which some people appreciate. It also has good documentation available (on line) which is too rarely true of FLOSS, and is a great advantage. In the net-shell, it is good and can be used for new users but you mean KMail too is equally well. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/cahbplrnag-qkxy8b5zjevh9_xnkvt3qec3ukm8w_axz2zvf...@mail.gmail.com
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: My aversion against Mozillas is not objective. But at least it is better than Safari or Windows Explorer. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/cahbplrodklmmzuzj2olynzsvaspfv7tplneust6qadrbcqv...@mail.gmail.com
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 12:21 PM, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: The last time I wanted to test Thunderbird again, some month ago, it opened with advertisings. Okay, that's why you feel the other one is better...ok, fair enough. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/cahbplrnroyd91xzquatarrhnmojqqkc6npthvvjgbof1avj...@mail.gmail.com
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 5:06 AM, Paul E Condon pecon...@mesanetworks.net wrote: Phishing is not virus. Phishing is play tricks on your mind and senses. Finding ways to make you believe things that are not true. To the extent that your environment is known to the phishers they have you at a disadvantage. Note that I said that the phisher attacks you, not the software that you are using. The warning is half in jest. The world is not chock full of evil people, really. And the best way to avoid is to type the website rather to click some link. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/cahbplro7nszsmwt5oi87nodjxkj6pk1cfs0p9yxewnbu8fw...@mail.gmail.com
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Tue, 2013-12-03 at 15:38 +0530, AP wrote: On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 10:26 PM, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: Mozilla software is excellent regarding to technically aspects, but not regarding to freedom. Your mean privacy? Yes + the whole philosophy isn't too _my_ taste. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1386070212.3249.9.camel@archlinux
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Tue, 2013-12-03 at 15:39 +0530, AP wrote: But then developers should create such clients which have such codes that are [...] not possible to hack Everything can be hacked, it's a race! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1386070639.3249.16.camel@archlinux
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Tue, 2013-12-03 at 15:59 +0530, AP wrote: On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: My aversion against Mozillas is not objective. But at least it is better than Safari or Windows Explorer. Yes, regarding to the open source code. But simply start using some MUAs ;). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1386070763.3249.17.camel@archlinux
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Tue, 2013-12-03 at 12:39 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: On Tue, 2013-12-03 at 15:59 +0530, AP wrote: On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: My aversion against Mozillas is not objective. But at least it is better than Safari or Windows Explorer. Yes, regarding to the open source code. But simply start using some MUAs ;). and web browser ;). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1386070830.3249.18.camel@archlinux
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
Le 03/12/2013 11:18, AP a écrit : [...] It seems that your mail client breaks threads. I see all your mails as new threads, disconnected from thoses you're responded to. Not easy to read. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/529dc2ce.1080...@nuagelibre.org
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
You don't need to be subscribe, to take a look at mailing lists archives or to read forums ;). Take a look at lists and forms for the MUAs and make your own opinion, when on mailing lists and forums, distros are blamed for bugs. If there is less good compatibility to older versions of the MUA or if it often fails, when a distro does use the wrong versions for dependencies, than the MUA might be perfect if you follow the upstream ideas, but you usually can't, since a distro not only cares about the MUA, but about all the software they distribute. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1386071447.3249.24.camel@archlinux
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Gilles Mocellin gilles.mocel...@nuagelibre.org wrote: It seems that your mail client breaks threads. I see all your mails as new threads, disconnected from thoses you're responded to. Yes it is agreed because I heard it a type of Mozilla bug too! I am not sure of it and that's why have decided to set-up a mail client. RIght and for the time being, I am just replying (from the Reply button) and in the browser like Opera or Firefox. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/cahbplrmnidine_i1b6sp_z-kpd7+-wprpljjda4yvm1hd0h...@mail.gmail.com
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 5:07 PM, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: Everything can be hacked, it's a race! Agreed but what I meant is that as soon as something is hacked/prone to be hacked, developers can do the proper required patching or editing the code so that the existing hole can be blocked. If a further such a possibility arises, they again do so by looking at the code and thus process is endlessYes its a race! I guess our life is a race! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAHBpLRNA1OYPdCn+g_HYOTyBBsVQYbhc55yU=km+2-xqt5c...@mail.gmail.com
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
Since you're using KDE (IIRC), start with using KMail. If you should use a MUA based on something else, but Qt, you might experience theme and icon issues. Those issues can be solved, but then you need to install more dependencies than you might want to install and you need to learn more, than you want to learn at the beginning. The most important to know about dependencies is that KDE is based on Qt and much other software is based on GTK. GTK3 IMO has a special (bad) status, very common is GTK2 too. There are rumors about GTK3 I won't spread now and GTK2 is outdated. I don't like Kmail, but regarding to dependencies, it _seems_ to be the most reliable MUA. All MUAs do their job, all MUAs have advantages and drawbacks. The philosophy of Linux is self-responsibility, IOW you need to find out yourself what's good for you. You can use all of the mentioned MUAs. Kmail, Evolution, Sylpheed-Claws, Thunderbird/Icedove and Opera, they all are usable. Regarding to security there are other options, that are independent of the used MUA, e.g. encryption. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1386072479.3249.35.camel@archlinux
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
A last note to this thread, I won't reply again too this thread. Finagle's Law of Dynamic Negatives (also known as Finagle's corollary to Murphy's Law) is usually rendered: Anything that can go wrong, will—at the worst possible moment - Wiki What MUA should I use, Kmail or Thunderbird? is analog too With whom should I fall in love, with women or men? What ever you decide, you'll experience issues. Next step. Should I use POP or IMAP? is analog to Should I fall in love with brunette or blond? What ever you decide, you'll experience issues. :p You already said: I guess our life is a race! and we know the end of the race ;), the end is some kind of issue ;p. -- Somebody on this list has got a signature, claiming that the end of the race isn't a bug, but a feature. Maybe!? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1386074547.3249.44.camel@archlinux
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 5:37 PM, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: Since you're using KDE (IIRC), start with using KMail. If you should use a MUA based on something else, but Qt, you might experience theme and icon issues. Those issues can be solved, but then you need to install more dependencies than you might want to install and you need to learn more, than you want to learn at the beginning. The most important to know about dependencies is that KDE is based on Qt and much other software is based on GTK. GTK3 IMO has a special (bad) status, very common is GTK2 too. There are rumors about GTK3 I won't spread now and GTK2 is outdated. I don't like Kmail, but regarding to dependencies, it _seems_ to be the most reliable MUA. All MUAs do their job, all MUAs have advantages and drawbacks. The philosophy of Linux is self-responsibility, IOW you need to find out yourself what's good for you. You can use all of the mentioned MUAs. Kmail, Evolution, Sylpheed-Claws, Thunderbird/Icedove and Opera, they all are usable. Regarding to security there are other options, that are independent of the used MUA, e.g. encryption. You concluded very well. I guess I must start with KMail because of the K-factor (yes, I am on KDE). And then later can try Thunderbird and Evolution. I just asked about Thunderbird with a bit more emphasis because I just heard it here and therewith some priorityWell, I didn't know about what that priority was.But the bottom line: use any one and then check. While sitting on Linux, I feel this is very correct: Linux is self-responsibility. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/cahbplrm7rou8vvpzibsdaobelabwejrxr52gf6rwzmizo_2...@mail.gmail.com
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 6:12 PM, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: You already said: I guess our life is a race! and we know the end of the race ;), the end is some kind of issue ;p. The end is not any kind of issue because the end is sure and this is known. If you call it an issue, I can call it an event. But the conclusion: sure to happen and is no more a bug! I said that seeing what really happens. Race..ok, but race towards death because that is the ultimate value assigned to any living creature...But then calling life a race is not bad, we have to do something until we are living on this earth. So we are in the race of life! Enough off-topic deviation. I close this thread now since the conclusions is received. And I see some thingsand then ask if I get confused Thanks. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/cahbplrm4rc9uam9ztey+tiynx2--7nkwtxvqwpjbwq2paij...@mail.gmail.com
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Tue, 2013-12-03 at 18:12 +0530, AP wrote: You concluded very well. I guess I must start with KMail because of the K-factor (yes, I am on KDE). And then later can try Thunderbird and Evolution. I just asked about Thunderbird with a bit more emphasis because I just heard it here and therewith some priorityWell, I didn't know about what that priority was.But the bottom line: use any one and then check. While sitting on Linux, I feel this is very correct: Linux is self-responsibility. PS to my last mail :D. The most worse step is to do nothing. Everybody has got doubts. After you fall in love with Mary, you'll notice, you better should have decide to have a relationship with Simone. But it anyway wasn't a mistake, the only mistake is to do nothing and to think about what might be the best step to do. There isn't a best or worst, stagnation is the only worse thing. Stagnation ends with death and Rock'n'Roll ends with death :p. I prefer Rock'n'Roll, not always :D. 2 Cents -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1386075091.3249.50.camel@archlinux
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
AP writes: Google is great I agree but only it should not collect one's personal information It won't collect anything you don't give it. Google search works fine with no Google account, no scripts, no cookies, and no referrers. -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87d2leow8u@thumper.dhh.gt.org
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
AP writes: Why this is [Gnus] an exception? Gnus is very different from all other MUAs. -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/878uw2ow40@thumper.dhh.gt.org
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Tuesday, December 03, 2013 08:19:27 AM John Hasler wrote: Gnus is very different from all other MUAs. Well. -- Thanks Regards, AP -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/2895265.3e4brdh...@linux-5rxn.site
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Tuesday, December 03, 2013 08:16:33 AM John Hasler wrote: Google is great I agree but only it should not collect one's personal information It won't collect anything you don't give it. Google search works fine with no Google account, no scripts, no cookies, and no referrers. Doesn't it store cookies? Then I was in different impression. -- Thanks Regards, AP -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4151514.k1y5vdc...@linux-5rxn.site
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Tuesday, December 03, 2013 12:12:36 AM Robert Holtzman wrote: On Mon, Dec 02, 2013 at 11:51:41AM -0600, y...@marupa.net wrote: .snip. Oh, that does clear it up. But again, I don't see that as a free vs. nonfree issue. Most software will choose defaults for you and you can change it, even Mozilla. I'm a KDE user, often a lot of KDE defaults I don't like or don't make sense, Kopete being perhaps the worst offender. I often don't care for software that requires user-side configuration to already be in place when run. By user-side I mean dotfiles in home directory. I do not really mind if I have to set something up in /etc, however, largely because I will most often be changing the defaults. What's the difference between setting something up in /etc and editing a dot file in your home directory? This shouldn't have to be explained to most Linux administrators. /etc is for system-wide configuration of software, meant to be handled by the administrator and if there's no default there's good reason for it. Most the configuration there is for stuff you don't want the average user to muck around with OR might cause trouble if poorly configured. Not to mention the average user has no permissions to change anything on /etc barring root privelege. It's not the place for an application to offer *preferences* but pure configuration to make sure it works with the system and how the administrator NEEDS it to. It is reasonable to expect anyone trying to change THIS configuration knows enough about the files to actually understand what they are doing. Dotfiles are all about enabling a user to supply preferences as opposed to pure configuration. Instead of it being about setting up the software to work correctly it's about getting it to be about how the user wants it to do its job. The reason why I think a sane application should just set up sane defaults is because an end user wants to run their application and then maybe change how it works in settings dialogs. *Not* open up a man page and figure out the details of the format, syntax, and semantics of a configuration file. It is NOT reasonable to expect the average user to understand what they are doing with that in this context. This might be fine for a power user (Of which I am one.) but I wouldn't put anything that requires manually editing text files for preferences on someone else's computer and expect them to use it. I prefer Google anyway, though, as I have yet to see a search engine that works nearly as well. I know a lot of people rave about Duck Duck Go, but every time I use it it loves to bring up results in an order that doesn't hit the same sort of relevance as Google. But Google using my search for advertising doesn't bother me. Neither, evidently, does it's personal data collection. Google is hardly the only service that does this. Chances are the second you set up with your ISP someone's already gotten ahold of your personal data. Going fear Google is unproductive because by the time you even visit their site for the first time some information on you is already had. Granted, your ISP is unlikely to blindly share it. I know it's all the rage to villify Google these days but it really is a constant double standard how people blatantly ignore the hundreds of other places you give up personal data to on and off the Internet. I'm not saying Google is justified, I'm just saying the near-blind Google hate is getting old and tired and I have no reason to really care about my personal data as I'm not dumb enough to shovel anything actually sensitive in my Google searches. There's no real guarantee of anonymity on the Internet even if you use things such as Tor. I feel fussing and going out of your way to try to get the non- existant 100% anonymity thing is a waste of productive time. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/3573143.ncNx42bVmC@twilight
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
AP: John Hasler: AP: Google is great I agree but only it should not collect one's personal information It won't collect anything you don't give it. Google search works fine with no Google account, no scripts, no cookies, and no referrers. Doesn't it store cookies? Then I was in different impression. JH means: Google search still works fine when you refuse cookies. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20131203170049.82172ffa.shiems...@kpnplanet.nl
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Tuesday, December 03, 2013 05:00:49 PM Siard wrote: JH means: Google search still works fine when you refuse cookies. Oh I see, you mean like using BetterPrivacy type Addons...right. -- Regards, AP -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/2860836.rpijebt...@linux-5rxn.site
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
I wrote: [Google search] won't collect anything you don't give it. Google search works fine with no Google account, no scripts, no cookies, and no referrers. AP writes: Doesn't it store cookies? Only if you allow it to. -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/871u1tq5i5@thumper.dhh.gt.org
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
AP writes: Oh I see, you mean like using BetterPrivacy type Addons...right. You don't need addons to refuse cookies. -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87wqjloqv1@thumper.dhh.gt.org
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Tuesday, December 03, 2013 10:12:50 AM John Hasler wrote: You don't need addons to refuse cookies. Well, what I know is that by default it saves and it never prompted me to ask if to store or not. By my own decision I had to install Better Privacy and then I was assured for it. Can you please elaborate the other method...? -- Regards, AP -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/3035940.prtvafv...@linux-5rxn.site
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
I wrote: You don't need addons to refuse cookies. AP writes: Well, what I know is that by default it saves and it never prompted me to ask if to store or not. By my own decision I had to install Better Privacy and then I was assured for it. Can you please elaborate the other method...? Iceweasel - Preferences - Privacy - follow instructions -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87siu9ookm@thumper.dhh.gt.org
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On 12/3/2013 9:22 AM, AP wrote: On Tuesday, December 03, 2013 08:16:33 AM John Hasler wrote: Google is great I agree but only it should not collect one's personal information It won't collect anything you don't give it. Google search works fine with no Google account, no scripts, no cookies, and no referrers. Doesn't it store cookies? Then I was in different impression. If you let it. But what do you think is in those cookies? Your home address, phone number and birth date? Or maybe it's just a session cookie track what search terms you've entered (which they can do anyway). Maybe they're just trying to be more user friendly by showing you previous search terms you've used to help you with similar searches. Cookies themselves are not evil. It's how some marketers have used cookies that is evil. Jerry -- I have good news and bad news for you. The good news is you are not paranoid. The bad news is the entire world IS out to get you! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/529e0d42.3030...@attglobal.net
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Tuesday, December 03, 2013 11:02:17 AM John Hasler wrote: Iceweasel - Preferences - Privacy - follow instructions Or: Firefox - Preferences - Privacy - follow instructions Thanks. -- Regards, AP -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/2623376.naxl82t...@linux-5rxn.site
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Tuesday, December 03, 2013 11:56:34 AM Jerry Stuckle wrote: Cookies themselves are not evil. It's how some marketers have used cookies that is evil. Unless you did a bank transaction! -- Regards, AP -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/138612159.i5u4yq6...@linux-5rxn.site
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
Please read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_cookie -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87haaponw6@thumper.dhh.gt.org
RE: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
-Original Message- From: John Hasler [mailto:jhas...@newsguy.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2013 12:17 PM To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related Please read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_cookie -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87haaponw6@thumper.dhh.gt.org Please stop wasting band width. Stephen P. Molnar, Ph.D. Life is a fuzzy set Foundation for Chemistry Stochastic and multivariate www.FoundationForChemistry.com (614)312-7528 (c) Skype: smolnar1 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/03a801cef04d$2eb86eb0$8c294c10$@mol...@sbcglobal.net
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Tue, 2013-12-03 at 09:38 -0600, y...@marupa.net wrote: Google Yesno, people who use twitter and facebook don't need to care about a Google search ;). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1386094150.3249.88.camel@archlinux
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On 12/3/2013 10:58 AM, AP wrote: On Tuesday, December 03, 2013 11:56:34 AM Jerry Stuckle wrote: Cookies themselves are not evil. It's how some marketers have used cookies that is evil. Unless you did a bank transaction! And exactly what is wrong with using cookies on a bank transaction? In fact, all banks I know of need to use cookies to manage signons. It's how the bank (or any site that uses signons) knows which computer is signed on. You obviously don't understand how cookies work and how they are needed on websites. Jerry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/529e1fb9.5050...@attglobal.net
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Tue, 2013-12-03 at 12:29 -0500, Stephen P. Molnar wrote: -Original Message- From: John Hasler [mailto:jhas...@newsguy.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2013 12:17 PM To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related Please read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_cookie -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87haaponw6@thumper.dhh.gt.org Please stop wasting band width. Pfff! C'mon! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1386094552.3249.91.camel@archlinux
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Tue, Dec 03, 2013 at 03:56:21PM +0530, AP wrote: On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 5:06 AM, Paul E Condon pecon...@mesanetworks.net wrote: Phishing is not virus. Phishing is play tricks on your mind and senses. Finding ways to make you believe things that are not true. To the extent that your environment is known to the phishers they have you at a disadvantage. Note that I said that the phisher attacks you, not the software that you are using. The warning is half in jest. The world is not chock full of evil people, really. And the best way to avoid is to type the website rather to click some link. Wrong. Evil web sites don't care how you access them, clicking or typing. -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor Strangelove Key ID 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Tue, Dec 03, 2013 at 08:51:44PM +0630, AP wrote: On Tuesday, December 03, 2013 08:19:27 AM John Hasler wrote: Gnus is very different from all other MUAs. Well. A wonderful post, filled with information. -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor Strangelove Key ID 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On 12/3/2013 2:24 PM, Robert Holtzman wrote: On Tue, Dec 03, 2013 at 03:56:21PM +0530, AP wrote: On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 5:06 AM, Paul E Condon pecon...@mesanetworks.net wrote: Phishing is not virus. Phishing is play tricks on your mind and senses. Finding ways to make you believe things that are not true. To the extent that your environment is known to the phishers they have you at a disadvantage. Note that I said that the phisher attacks you, not the software that you are using. The warning is half in jest. The world is not chock full of evil people, really. And the best way to avoid is to type the website rather to click some link. Wrong. Evil web sites don't care how you access them, clicking or typing. I think what he's referring to is the visible link normally has a recognizable website such as www.example.com, while the actual link takes you to www.invalid.com. If you always type in the website name, you can't be misdirected like that. Any website subject to phishing will say the same thing - PayPal, for instance. Also my bank. Jerry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/529e333e.1080...@attglobal.net
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Tue, 3 Dec 2013 12:24:50 -0700 Robert Holtzman hol...@cox.net wrote: Hello Robert, Wrong. Evil web sites don't care how you access them, clicking or typing. That's true of course. I think AP's point (expressed poorly perhaps) is that a phishing email will likely contain a link to a web site that impersonates a legitimate one. For example; A href=dodgy/phishing/web/siteText to lure you/A If you type the name of a legitimate site, rather than rely on the link in an email, you're less likely to end up visiting a dodgy site. In fact, I get emails from the banks I have dealings with that suggest you type in their url rather than rely on links to avoid any mishaps, because they (the banks) know that phishing attempts are often made using clones of their login pages on dodgy sites. -- Regards _ / ) The blindingly obvious is / _)radnever immediately apparent Why do they try to hide our past pulling down houses and build car parks Bricks Mortar - The Jam signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Tue, 2013-12-03 at 19:45 +, Brad Rogers wrote: On Tue, 3 Dec 2013 12:24:50 -0700 Robert Holtzman hol...@cox.net wrote: Hello Robert, Wrong. Evil web sites don't care how you access them, clicking or typing. That's true of course. I think AP's point (expressed poorly perhaps) is that a phishing email will likely contain a link to a web site that impersonates a legitimate one. For example; A href=dodgy/phishing/web/siteText to lure you/A If you type the name of a legitimate site, rather than rely on the link in an email, you're less likely to end up visiting a dodgy site. In fact, I get emails from the banks I have dealings with that suggest you type in their url rather than rely on links to avoid any mishaps, because they (the banks) know that phishing attempts are often made using clones of their login pages on dodgy sites. If we move the mouse cursor over the Text to lure you, we usually see the dodgy/phishing/web/site somewhere displayed by our MUAs. I usually receive My house bank links that in reality are Some obscure never ever-land links. Very nice are police links. E.g. We detected child porn on your computer. Just pay 50,-€ and it's ok. The German police not only allows you to have child porn on your computer, if you pay 50,-€ ;), they also write in broken German ;). I wonder about the target group of such phishing mails. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1386101799.3249.143.camel@archlinux
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Tue, 2013-12-03 at 21:16 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: On Tue, 2013-12-03 at 19:45 +, Brad Rogers wrote: On Tue, 3 Dec 2013 12:24:50 -0700 Robert Holtzman hol...@cox.net wrote: Hello Robert, Wrong. Evil web sites don't care how you access them, clicking or typing. That's true of course. I think AP's point (expressed poorly perhaps) is that a phishing email will likely contain a link to a web site that impersonates a legitimate one. For example; A href=dodgy/phishing/web/siteText to lure you/A If you type the name of a legitimate site, rather than rely on the link in an email, you're less likely to end up visiting a dodgy site. In fact, I get emails from the banks I have dealings with that suggest you type in their url rather than rely on links to avoid any mishaps, because they (the banks) know that phishing attempts are often made using clones of their login pages on dodgy sites. If we move the mouse cursor over the Text to lure you, we usually see the dodgy/phishing/web/site somewhere displayed by our MUAs. I usually receive My house bank links that in reality are Some obscure never ever-land links. Very nice are police links. E.g. We detected child porn on your computer. Just pay 50,-€ and it's ok. The German police not only allows you to have child porn on your computer, if you pay 50,-€ ;), they also write in broken German ;). I wonder about the target group of such phishing mails. I guess much more exemplary than child porn detection is virus detection. We detect a virus on you Windows install, on a Linux only machine ;). There must be some hidden Windows installs with tons of child porn routekits inside my HDD's MBRs ;). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1386102090.3249.147.camel@archlinux
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Tue, Dec 03, 2013 at 09:38:51AM -0600, y...@marupa.net wrote: On Tuesday, December 03, 2013 12:12:36 AM Robert Holtzman wrote: On Mon, Dec 02, 2013 at 11:51:41AM -0600, y...@marupa.net wrote: .snip. Oh, that does clear it up. But again, I don't see that as a free vs. nonfree issue. Most software will choose defaults for you and you can change it, even Mozilla. I'm a KDE user, often a lot of KDE defaults I don't like or don't make sense, Kopete being perhaps the worst offender. I often don't care for software that requires user-side configuration to already be in place when run. By user-side I mean dotfiles in home directory. I do not really mind if I have to set something up in /etc, however, largely because I will most often be changing the defaults. What's the difference between setting something up in /etc and editing a dot file in your home directory? This shouldn't have to be explained to most Linux administrators. While I'm not a professional sysadmin, I'm well aware of your explanation below. /etc is for system-wide configuration of software, meant to be handled by the administrator and if there's no default there's good reason for it. ...snip.. This might be fine for a power user (Of which I am one.) but I wouldn't put anything that requires manually editing text files for preferences on someone else's computer and expect them to use it. Your post that I replied to indicated that *you* didn't care for s/w that required user side configuration to be in place when run. I didn't see any discussion about what sort of user you had in mind and nothing about setting up a box for someone else. It implied that you didn't care for it for *your* use. snip.. Google is hardly the only service that does this. Chances are the second you set up with your ISP someone's already gotten ahold of your personal data. ..snip There's no real guarantee of anonymity on the Internet even if you use things such as Tor. I feel fussing and going out of your way to try to get the non- existant 100% anonymity thing is a waste of productive time. True but that doesn't mean you should surrender to each and every one. You sound like Larry Ellison. -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor Strangelove Key ID 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Tue, Dec 03, 2013 at 01:07:59PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: ...snip... You can use all of the mentioned MUAs. Kmail, Evolution, Sylpheed-Claws, Thunderbird/Icedove and Opera, they all are usable. Regarding to security there are other options, that are independent of the used MUA, e.g. encryption. There seems to be a preoccupation with GUI MUAs on this thread. To me, these are all eye candy. There's nothing wrong with a text based MUA like Alpine or Mutt with Alpine being particularly well suited to a noob and very easy to set up. -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor Strangelove Key ID 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature
plese stop Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
This thread began on Nov 24th, 10 days ago. There have been 211 posts (including this one) in this thread. I dare say it ceased being productive or insightful many, many posts ago. And it ceased having anything to do with Debian Linux quite a while ago. Let's move on to something worthwhile. -- Stan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/529e416d.2000...@hardwarefreak.com
Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Tue, 03 Dec 2013 22:28:31 +0630 AP worldwithoutfen...@gmail.com wrote: On Tuesday, December 03, 2013 11:56:34 AM Jerry Stuckle wrote: Cookies themselves are not evil. It's how some marketers have used cookies that is evil. Unless you did a bank transaction! One would hope that no bank was stupid enough to include confidential information in cookies. Every now and then, a browser turns out to have a vulnerability that allows scripts to read cookies deposited by someone else's website, and it seems unlikely this will ever stop happening. And as Jerry hints, there are companies who gain permission to leave and read their own cookies on a range of legitimate websites, and the marketing company's own database can then correlate different sites you visit, with a view to placing targeted adverts. For the most part, cookies contain fairly unimportant information, often simply to keep track of the stage reached in a multiple-step transaction. Many e-commerce (and banking) sites won't work if cookies are refused altogether. Firefox at least can be set to drop cookies when it closes, except for sites specifically allowed to leave them, and can also treat third-party cookies (generally the data-mining ones) differently from the site's own cookies. -- Joe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20131203204246.0bafa...@jretrading.com
Re: plese stop Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On Tue, 2013-12-03 at 14:39 -0600, Stan Hoeppner wrote: This thread began on Nov 24th, 10 days ago. There have been 211 posts (including this one) in this thread. I dare say it ceased being productive or insightful many, many posts ago. And it ceased having anything to do with Debian Linux quite a while ago. Let's move on to something worthwhile. Mailer used by Stan is Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.1, so filtering unwanted threads doesn't work that good for Thunderbird, perhaps a drawback of Thunderbird when using mailing lists. Just a guess ;). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1386103538.3249.162.camel@archlinux
Re: plese stop Re: A rookie's query: Want to about Debian and the related
On 12/3/2013 2:45 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: On Tue, 2013-12-03 at 14:39 -0600, Stan Hoeppner wrote: This thread began on Nov 24th, 10 days ago. There have been 211 posts (including this one) in this thread. I dare say it ceased being productive or insightful many, many posts ago. And it ceased having anything to do with Debian Linux quite a while ago. Let's move on to something worthwhile. Mailer used by Stan is Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.1, so filtering unwanted threads doesn't work that good for Thunderbird, perhaps a drawback of Thunderbird when using mailing lists. Just a guess ;). I'll start depositing paper bags full of dogs poop on your front porch 20 times a day and light each on fire. Your reaction to that will clearly demonstrate whether the problem has anything to do with your ability to filter the flaming dog poop, or if something needs to be done about the person depositing it on your porch. Especially given that rules are already in place to prevent such a thing. In this case they simply haven't been enforced yet. For your sake, take a clue, and extricate yourself from this argument before they are enforced. Don't assume that simply because it doesn't happen often that people don't get banned from debian-user. Ralf, do you really want to be known as the only person in 2013 to be banned from debian-user? And for what? A stupid argument over mail clients? -- Stan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/529e4b7f.2020...@hardwarefreak.com
