Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Sat, Nov 03, 2007 at 06:38:36AM -0700, Michael M. Moore wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 2007-11-01 at 19:02 -0400, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 08:33:00PM -, BartlebyScrivener wrote:
> >  
> > > So exercising an abundance of caution I usually stick with synaptic.
> > > Maybe on my next install I'll look into Aptitude.
> > 
> > What do you do when X dies or needs changing?
> 
> 
> I don't understand the question.  Aptitude doesn't need X.  It's an
> ncurses/command-line app.  Usually, I run it (curses interface) from a
> VT when I'm logged out of X.

He said that he's exercising an abundance of caution by running
synaptic.  Hense my question about X dying.

Doug.


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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Martin Waller]

Michael M. Moore wrote:

On Thu, 2007-11-01 at 19:02 -0400, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
  

On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 08:33:00PM -, BartlebyScrivener wrote:
 


So exercising an abundance of caution I usually stick with synaptic.
Maybe on my next install I'll look into Aptitude.
  

What do you do when X dies or needs changing?




I don't understand the question.  Aptitude doesn't need X.  It's an
ncurses/command-line app.  Usually, I run it (curses interface) from a
VT when I'm logged out of X.


  


I think they meant synaptic, not aptitude.  The point is exactly that, 
that you don't need X for aptitude, but you do for synaptic.


Martin


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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Michael M. Moore]

On Thu, 2007-11-01 at 19:02 -0400, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 08:33:00PM -, BartlebyScrivener wrote:
>  
> > So exercising an abundance of caution I usually stick with synaptic.
> > Maybe on my next install I'll look into Aptitude.
> 
> What do you do when X dies or needs changing?


I don't understand the question.  Aptitude doesn't need X.  It's an
ncurses/command-line app.  Usually, I run it (curses interface) from a
VT when I'm logged out of X.


-- 
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"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions
of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to
dream." --S. Jackson


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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Andrei Popescu]

On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 07:02:47PM -0400, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 08:33:00PM -, BartlebyScrivener wrote:
>  
> > So exercising an abundance of caution I usually stick with synaptic.
> > Maybe on my next install I'll look into Aptitude.
> 
> What do you do when X dies or needs changing?

I did a lot of X upgrades with aptitude from an xterm and never had any 
problem (and that's on unstable). I know it's not recommended, but it 
usually works.

Regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)


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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Chris Lale]

Ken Irving wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 07:25:58AM -0700, Daniel Burrows wrote:
>> On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 11:09:07AM -0800, Ken Irving <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was 
>> heard to say:
> On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 08:19:58PM -0700, Daniel Burrows wrote:
   No, I just come down hard on this meme because it seems to have taken
 on a life of its own and I'd like to squash it before it grows up into a
 full-blown urban legend.
>>> That sounds good, but is it different now than it used to be?  I haven't
>>> tried it lately, but it used to "seem" to want to remove lots of things.
>>> I'm aware of the workarounds (keep-all or whatever), have followed most
>>> of the threads (even instigated some...), but am still a command-line
>>> apt-get user waiting for a reason to change.  Two problems I have with
>>> aptitude are the lack of "source" functionality and my inability to spell
>>> it as easily as apt-get. ;-)
>>   There were bugs in some past versions.  As far as I know, the worst
>> ones (e.g., #411123) were fixed in etch.  There were some new bugs
>> introduced in unstable with the switchover to using apt to track unused
>> packages (where aptitude would even want to remove packages it had just
>> installed), but those should be fixed in 0.4.7.
>>
>>   There are a few corner cases in which aptitude will do the wrong
>> thing.
>>
>>   * Marking a package for removal in aptitude, exiting, removing it with
>> apt-get, installing it again with apt-get, then running aptitude.
>> aptitude will still remember that you want to remove the package.
>>
>>   * If you interrupt aptitude before it writes its state database, it
>> will sometimes get confused about the system state, especially if
>> you proceed to run apt-get before aptitude. (I can't remember the
>> precise sequence of events that have to happen to trigger this off
>> the top of my head)
>>
>>   Those are the only ways I can think of offhand to get aptitude to
>> remove packages you didn't ask it to.  Unfortunately, there's no
>> reliable way to tell if someone else has fiddled with a package
>> (#429438), so as long as aptitude tries to save and restore the current
>> state, there will be a few edge cases like this.
>>
>>   Anything I didn't list above is a bug that I don't know about.
>>
>>   Daniel
> 
> Thank you!  I just did an aptitude upgrade, and that old remove-everything
> problem is indeed gone, and no obscure workarounds needed.
> 
> FWIW, a "newubie doc" referenced earlier in this thread,
> 
>   
> http://newbiedoc.berlios.de/wiki/Aptitude_-_using_together_with_Synaptic_and_Apt-get
> 
> perpetuates this particular meme, linking back to an old thread based
> apparently on that bug.
> 
> Ken

NewbieDOC is a wiki, so you could easily change that and bring the document up
to date. :)

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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Ken Irving]

On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 07:25:58AM -0700, Daniel Burrows wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 11:09:07AM -0800, Ken Irving <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was 
> heard to say:
> > > > On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 08:19:58PM -0700, Daniel Burrows wrote:
> > >   No, I just come down hard on this meme because it seems to have taken
> > > on a life of its own and I'd like to squash it before it grows up into a
> > > full-blown urban legend.
> > 
> > That sounds good, but is it different now than it used to be?  I haven't
> > tried it lately, but it used to "seem" to want to remove lots of things.
> > I'm aware of the workarounds (keep-all or whatever), have followed most
> > of the threads (even instigated some...), but am still a command-line
> > apt-get user waiting for a reason to change.  Two problems I have with
> > aptitude are the lack of "source" functionality and my inability to spell
> > it as easily as apt-get. ;-)
> 
>   There were bugs in some past versions.  As far as I know, the worst
> ones (e.g., #411123) were fixed in etch.  There were some new bugs
> introduced in unstable with the switchover to using apt to track unused
> packages (where aptitude would even want to remove packages it had just
> installed), but those should be fixed in 0.4.7.
> 
>   There are a few corner cases in which aptitude will do the wrong
> thing.
> 
>   * Marking a package for removal in aptitude, exiting, removing it with
> apt-get, installing it again with apt-get, then running aptitude.
> aptitude will still remember that you want to remove the package.
> 
>   * If you interrupt aptitude before it writes its state database, it
> will sometimes get confused about the system state, especially if
> you proceed to run apt-get before aptitude. (I can't remember the
> precise sequence of events that have to happen to trigger this off
> the top of my head)
> 
>   Those are the only ways I can think of offhand to get aptitude to
> remove packages you didn't ask it to.  Unfortunately, there's no
> reliable way to tell if someone else has fiddled with a package
> (#429438), so as long as aptitude tries to save and restore the current
> state, there will be a few edge cases like this.
> 
>   Anything I didn't list above is a bug that I don't know about.
> 
>   Daniel

Thank you!  I just did an aptitude upgrade, and that old remove-everything
problem is indeed gone, and no obscure workarounds needed.

FWIW, a "newubie doc" referenced earlier in this thread,

  
http://newbiedoc.berlios.de/wiki/Aptitude_-_using_together_with_Synaptic_and_Apt-get

perpetuates this particular meme, linking back to an old thread based
apparently on that bug.

Ken
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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Daniel Burrows]

On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 11:09:07AM -0800, Ken Irving <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was 
heard to say:
> > > On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 08:19:58PM -0700, Daniel Burrows wrote:
> >   No, I just come down hard on this meme because it seems to have taken
> > on a life of its own and I'd like to squash it before it grows up into a
> > full-blown urban legend.
> 
> That sounds good, but is it different now than it used to be?  I haven't
> tried it lately, but it used to "seem" to want to remove lots of things.
> I'm aware of the workarounds (keep-all or whatever), have followed most
> of the threads (even instigated some...), but am still a command-line
> apt-get user waiting for a reason to change.  Two problems I have with
> aptitude are the lack of "source" functionality and my inability to spell
> it as easily as apt-get. ;-)

  There were bugs in some past versions.  As far as I know, the worst
ones (e.g., #411123) were fixed in etch.  There were some new bugs
introduced in unstable with the switchover to using apt to track unused
packages (where aptitude would even want to remove packages it had just
installed), but those should be fixed in 0.4.7.

  There are a few corner cases in which aptitude will do the wrong
thing.

  * Marking a package for removal in aptitude, exiting, removing it with
apt-get, installing it again with apt-get, then running aptitude.
aptitude will still remember that you want to remove the package.

  * If you interrupt aptitude before it writes its state database, it
will sometimes get confused about the system state, especially if
you proceed to run apt-get before aptitude. (I can't remember the
precise sequence of events that have to happen to trigger this off
the top of my head)

  Those are the only ways I can think of offhand to get aptitude to
remove packages you didn't ask it to.  Unfortunately, there's no
reliable way to tell if someone else has fiddled with a package
(#429438), so as long as aptitude tries to save and restore the current
state, there will be a few edge cases like this.

  Anything I didn't list above is a bug that I don't know about.

  Daniel


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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 08:33:00PM -, BartlebyScrivener wrote:
 
> So exercising an abundance of caution I usually stick with synaptic.
> Maybe on my next install I'll look into Aptitude.

What do you do when X dies or needs changing?

Doug.


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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 11:09:07AM -0800, Ken Irving wrote:
 
> That sounds good, but is it different now than it used to be?  I haven't
> tried it lately, but it used to "seem" to want to remove lots of things.
> I'm aware of the workarounds (keep-all or whatever), have followed most
> of the threads (even instigated some...), but am still a command-line
> apt-get user waiting for a reason to change.  Two problems I have with
> aptitude are the lack of "source" functionality and my inability to spell
> it as easily as apt-get. ;-)
> 

Add an alias so that aptitude="apty" or "capt" (curses apt), or even
"aptgod".  

The best reason, to me, to change, is the CUI.  I have it _not_ include
recommends by default but after the first 'g', it shows a list of
recommends and suggests for each package.  Its also nice to see what it
wants to do when you're doing something tricky.  It also means no more
cruft buildup.  The first thing I do after a minimal install (not tasks
selected) is run aptitude and get things marked 'A' unless I know I want
it.

Doug.



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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[joseph lockhart]

i'll through in my 2cts worth on this. i personally
find that aptitude is a stronger program, especially
for newer users, after using both, aptitude seems to
keep the system cleaner with less loose ends and is
less likely to break dependencies. at least that is my
experience

jwlockhart

jwlockhart

this user is penguin powered

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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Celejar]

On Thu, 1 Nov 2007 11:09:07 -0800
Ken Irving <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


[snip]

> apt-get user waiting for a reason to change.  Two problems I have with
> aptitude are the lack of "source" functionality and my inability to spell
> it as easily as apt-get. ;-)

At least here, it's actually easier; apti  gives aptitude, while
apt-  gives 9 different possibilities :)

> Ken

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Re: Mouse + curses (+ vim), was Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[David Brodbeck]

On Nov 1, 2007, at 2:41 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


[This message has also been posted to linux.debian.user.]
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Nate Duehr wrote:

I think the niftiest feature (and one that still has me scratching my
head as to how you accomplished it) is the MOUSE control in curses
over SSH from a WINDOWS box?!  That's amazing.



I first saw that in the vi clone "elvis."  Shortly after I suggested
it to its author.  But maybe he was already working on it.


I first ran into it in Pine.

I think the mouse support itself started out as an xterm feature, and  
then was copied by a lot of other terminal emulators, including PuTTY.





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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 08:33:00PM -, BartlebyScrivener wrote:
> On Oct 27, 2:50 pm, Chris Lale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > If you use both aptitude and apt-get, read the NewbieDOC article about the 
> > magic
> > bullet[1] "aptitude keep-all".
> >
> > [1]http://newbiedoc.berlios.de/wiki/Aptitude_-_using_together_with_Synap...
> >
> 
> That's a newbie doc? :) Clear as mud. I've used Etch for a year,
> Synaptic and Apt-Get. Every time people suggest aptitude, the next two
> paragraphs are about how if you've used apt-get before then (insert
> two paragraphs of incomprehensible warnings).

just try it and see. You can always not execute the actions if you
don't like what its suggesting. 

A


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Mouse + curses (+ vim), was Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[cls]

[This message has also been posted to linux.debian.user.]
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Nate Duehr wrote:
>
> On Oct 29, 2007, at 9:49 PM, Daniel Burrows wrote:
>> I
>> occasionally notice people writing that they just discovered  
>> aptitude's
>> curses interface after using it for ages, so I know that this isn't
>> universally known.
>
>
> I think the niftiest feature (and one that still has me scratching my  
> head as to how you accomplished it) is the MOUSE control in curses  
> over SSH from a WINDOWS box?!  That's amazing.
>
> (In case you're not sure what I mean... get on a Windows box, fire up  
> PuTTY (I'm sure PuTTY is also "helping" in this scenario somehow) and  

I first saw that in the vi clone "elvis."  Shortly after I suggested
it to its author.  But maybe he was already working on it.
vi's "visual" edit commands go [].
He just added "mouse click" to the long list of cursor motion
gestures already available.  So delete from here to there becomes
click d click.  Vim had the same feature within a year.  Put
set mouse=a
in your .vimrc to enable it.  Now vim was already doing something
xterm-like with the mouse.  drag d selects the stuff you dragged over
and deletes it.  If you were already used to that, hold Shift
while you do it.  No-shift and you get the new behavior.
Meanwhile, the curses-based Elvis doesn't have the feature any more.

While you're editing .vimrc, don't forget

set nocompatible
set backspace=indent,eol,start
syntax on

to fix some vi peeves and get color-highlights in many languages
and config files.

Debian-related: Vim features can be selected or deselected at
compile time.  They are grouped into five bundles, ranging from
tiny vim, not much more than Berkeley vi, to huge vim with
the X11 GUI and Perl and Python scripting.  The default vim
in Etch was made with mouse integration turned off.  :-(
Maybe that's why more people don't know about it.
So be sure to install the vim-full package if you want vim
to work right in xterm and PuTTY.  Or compile it from source
with all the defaults.  (you'll need libncurses5-dev)
Works right out of the box, installs politely in /usr/local,
no muss no fuss.

slrn uses the mouse in an xterm too.  BTW colorized ls(1) and
black on white xterm don't play well together.  Try
xterm -bg black -fg white -cr green -sb -sl 900 -font fixed


Cameron



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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[BartlebyScrivener]

On Oct 27, 2:50 pm, Chris Lale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> If you use both aptitude and apt-get, read the NewbieDOC article about the 
> magic
> bullet[1] "aptitude keep-all".
>
> [1]http://newbiedoc.berlios.de/wiki/Aptitude_-_using_together_with_Synap...
>

That's a newbie doc? :) Clear as mud. I've used Etch for a year,
Synaptic and Apt-Get. Every time people suggest aptitude, the next two
paragraphs are about how if you've used apt-get before then (insert
two paragraphs of incomprehensible warnings).

So exercising an abundance of caution I usually stick with synaptic.
Maybe on my next install I'll look into Aptitude.

rd


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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[BartlebyScrivener]

On Oct 27, 2:50 pm, Chris Lale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> If you use both aptitude and apt-get, read the NewbieDOC article about the 
> magic
> bullet[1] "aptitude keep-all".
>
> [1]http://newbiedoc.berlios.de/wiki/Aptitude_-_using_together_with_Synap...
>

That's a newbie doc? :) Clear as mud. I've used Etch for a year,
Synaptic and Apt-Get. Every time people suggest aptitude, the next two
paragraphs are about how if you've used apt-get before then (insert
two paragraphs of incomprehensible warnings).

So exercising an abundance of caution I usually stick with synaptic.
Maybe on my next install I'll look into Aptitude.

rd


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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Celejar]

[replying to my own post]

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 23:26:55 -0400
Celejar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 00:53:46 +0100
> Richard Lyons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> 
> > in synaptic to browse than it is in aptitude.  And I wish you could
> > reverse direction in mid-search in aptitude.  I often race past a
> > relevant match by being too quick on the "n".  If only "b" for back or
> > "p" for previous or "N" or whatever switched the direction without
> > having to reenter the search using \ or page up enough times to probably
> > pass whatever it was you didn't quite see...
> 
> From the aptitude manual:
> 
>  [Tip]  Tip
> 
> You can search backwards in the package list by pressing \, and you 
> can
> repeat the last search by pressing n after closing the search window.
> 
> I never remember how to do that either ...

I didn't read your post sufficiently carefully; sorry for the noise.

> Celejar

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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Celejar]

On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 00:53:46 +0100
Richard Lyons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

[snip]

> in synaptic to browse than it is in aptitude.  And I wish you could
> reverse direction in mid-search in aptitude.  I often race past a
> relevant match by being too quick on the "n".  If only "b" for back or
> "p" for previous or "N" or whatever switched the direction without
> having to reenter the search using \ or page up enough times to probably
> pass whatever it was you didn't quite see...

>From the aptitude manual:

 [Tip]  Tip

You can search backwards in the package list by pressing \, and you can
repeat the last search by pressing n after closing the search window.

I never remember how to do that either ...

Celejar
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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Ken Irving]

On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 07:01:53AM -0700, Daniel Burrows wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 09:35:02PM -0700, Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]> was heard to say:
> > On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 08:19:58PM -0700, Daniel Burrows wrote:
> > > On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 09:25:02AM -0700, Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL 
> > > PROTECTED]> was heard to say:
> > > > 
> > > > this bothers me, since I mostly use aptitude. When I need a build-dep
> > > > or source, I'm concerned that later aptitude may wipe something
> > > > inadvertantly. Do you know if there are plans to implement these
> > > > commands into aptitude? Or will apt-get always remain, so that its not
> > > > a problem?
> > > 
> > >   aptitude shouldn't wipe out packages installed with apt-get, period
> > > full stop.
> > 
> > you know, that wasn't fair of me. I was once concerned about that
> > problem, but have subsequently learned that it really doesn't
> > happen. So i apologise if that came across wrong.
> 
>   No, I just come down hard on this meme because it seems to have taken
> on a life of its own and I'd like to squash it before it grows up into a
> full-blown urban legend.

That sounds good, but is it different now than it used to be?  I haven't
tried it lately, but it used to "seem" to want to remove lots of things.
I'm aware of the workarounds (keep-all or whatever), have followed most
of the threads (even instigated some...), but am still a command-line
apt-get user waiting for a reason to change.  Two problems I have with
aptitude are the lack of "source" functionality and my inability to spell
it as easily as apt-get. ;-)

Ken
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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 07:01:53AM -0700, Daniel Burrows wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 09:35:02PM -0700, Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]> was heard to say:
> > On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 08:19:58PM -0700, Daniel Burrows wrote:
> > > On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 09:25:02AM -0700, Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL 
> > > PROTECTED]> was heard to say:
> > > > 
> > > > this bothers me, since I mostly use aptitude. When I need a build-dep
> > > > or source, I'm concerned that later aptitude may wipe something
> > > > inadvertantly. Do you know if there are plans to implement these
> > > > commands into aptitude? Or will apt-get always remain, so that its not
> > > > a problem?
> > > 
> > >   aptitude shouldn't wipe out packages installed with apt-get, period
> > > full stop.
> > 
> > you know, that wasn't fair of me. I was once concerned about that
> > problem, but have subsequently learned that it really doesn't
> > happen. So i apologise if that came across wrong.
> 
>   No, I just come down hard on this meme because it seems to have taken
> on a life of its own and I'd like to squash it before it grows up into a
> full-blown urban legend.

ack.

A


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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Daniel Burrows]

On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 09:35:02PM -0700, Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]> was heard to say:
> On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 08:19:58PM -0700, Daniel Burrows wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 09:25:02AM -0700, Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL 
> > PROTECTED]> was heard to say:
> > > 
> > > this bothers me, since I mostly use aptitude. When I need a build-dep
> > > or source, I'm concerned that later aptitude may wipe something
> > > inadvertantly. Do you know if there are plans to implement these
> > > commands into aptitude? Or will apt-get always remain, so that its not
> > > a problem?
> > 
> >   aptitude shouldn't wipe out packages installed with apt-get, period
> > full stop.
> 
> you know, that wasn't fair of me. I was once concerned about that
> problem, but have subsequently learned that it really doesn't
> happen. So i apologise if that came across wrong.

  No, I just come down hard on this meme because it seems to have taken
on a life of its own and I'd like to squash it before it grows up into a
full-blown urban legend.

  Daniel


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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Daniel Burrows]

On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 12:36:07PM +0100, Richard Lyons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was 
heard to say:
> On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 09:31:12PM -0700, Daniel Burrows wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 12:53:46AM +0100, Richard Lyons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > was heard to say:
> [...]
> > > reverse direction in mid-search in aptitude.  I often race past a
> > > relevant match by being too quick on the "n".  If only "b" for back or
> > > "p" for previous or "N" or whatever switched the direction without
> > > having to reenter the search using \ or page up enough times to probably
> > > pass whatever it was you didn't quite see...
> > 
> > changeset:   604:42378273c12b
> > user:Daniel Burrows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > date:Sat Mar 10 16:46:30 2007 +
> > summary: [aptitude @ Add a keyboard command bound to 'N' that repeats 
> > the last search in the opposite direction (Closes: #414020, #397880)]
> 
> Great!  I look forward to that hitting etch.

  It won't, but it should be in lenny already.

  Daniel


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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 09:31:12PM -0700, Daniel Burrows wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 12:53:46AM +0100, Richard Lyons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> was heard to say:
> > On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 05:22:16PM -0600, Nate Duehr wrote:
> > 
> > [...]
> > > aptitude is by far one of the best package management tools out  
> > > there.  Newbies and folks really stuck in the graphic-oriented/desktop  
> > > user world may like synaptic better, but for just getting things done  
> > > -- aptitude wins hands down, almost all the time.
> > 
> > I do agree!  Just occasionally, I fire up synaptic to browse a category,
> > say stuff to do with sound, or mail for example.  It is slightly easier
> > in synaptic to browse than it is in aptitude.  And I wish you could
> > reverse direction in mid-search in aptitude.  I often race past a
> > relevant match by being too quick on the "n".  If only "b" for back or
> > "p" for previous or "N" or whatever switched the direction without
> > having to reenter the search using \ or page up enough times to probably
> > pass whatever it was you didn't quite see...
> 
> changeset:   604:42378273c12b
> user:Daniel Burrows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> date:Sat Mar 10 16:46:30 2007 +
> summary: [aptitude @ Add a keyboard command bound to 'N' that repeats the 
> last search in the opposite direction (Closes: #414020, #397880)]

wow! talk about awesome dev response time! that was so fast its in the
past!

whoosh...

A


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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Richard Lyons]

On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 09:31:12PM -0700, Daniel Burrows wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 12:53:46AM +0100, Richard Lyons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> was heard to say:
[...]
> > reverse direction in mid-search in aptitude.  I often race past a
> > relevant match by being too quick on the "n".  If only "b" for back or
> > "p" for previous or "N" or whatever switched the direction without
> > having to reenter the search using \ or page up enough times to probably
> > pass whatever it was you didn't quite see...
> 
> changeset:   604:42378273c12b
> user:Daniel Burrows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> date:Sat Mar 10 16:46:30 2007 +
> summary: [aptitude @ Add a keyboard command bound to 'N' that repeats the 
> last search in the opposite direction (Closes: #414020, #397880)]

Great!  I look forward to that hitting etch.

-- 
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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Daniel Burrows]

On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 12:53:46AM +0100, Richard Lyons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was 
heard to say:
> On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 05:22:16PM -0600, Nate Duehr wrote:
> 
> [...]
> > aptitude is by far one of the best package management tools out  
> > there.  Newbies and folks really stuck in the graphic-oriented/desktop  
> > user world may like synaptic better, but for just getting things done  
> > -- aptitude wins hands down, almost all the time.
> 
> I do agree!  Just occasionally, I fire up synaptic to browse a category,
> say stuff to do with sound, or mail for example.  It is slightly easier
> in synaptic to browse than it is in aptitude.  And I wish you could
> reverse direction in mid-search in aptitude.  I often race past a
> relevant match by being too quick on the "n".  If only "b" for back or
> "p" for previous or "N" or whatever switched the direction without
> having to reenter the search using \ or page up enough times to probably
> pass whatever it was you didn't quite see...

changeset:   604:42378273c12b
user:Daniel Burrows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
date:Sat Mar 10 16:46:30 2007 +
summary: [aptitude @ Add a keyboard command bound to 'N' that repeats the 
last search in the opposite direction (Closes: #414020, #397880)]

  Daniel


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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 08:19:58PM -0700, Daniel Burrows wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 09:25:02AM -0700, Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]> was heard to say:
> > 
> > this bothers me, since I mostly use aptitude. When I need a build-dep
> > or source, I'm concerned that later aptitude may wipe something
> > inadvertantly. Do you know if there are plans to implement these
> > commands into aptitude? Or will apt-get always remain, so that its not
> > a problem?
> 
>   aptitude shouldn't wipe out packages installed with apt-get, period
> full stop.

you know, that wasn't fair of me. I was once concerned about that
problem, but have subsequently learned that it really doesn't
happen. So i apologise if that came across wrong.

> 
>   The thing that bothers me, sometimes, about build-dep is that I have no
> way of deleting the build-dep once I don't need it.  There would be real
> value in adding this command to aptitude if there was a way to tag
> packages installed by it for future removal.  (one could also get crazy
> and imagine putting arbitrary tags on packages)

yeah, i see what you mean. Personally, if I install a build-dep, I
want it to stick around and and stay in good shape like any other
package. My hacking is done intermittently at best and having a
build-dep go out of sync when I'm not looking would be frustrating. 

> 
>   I don't see the point of duplicating the functionality of "source",
> except that it means you can avoid running apt-get.

hmmm... I'mnot sure I understand this. Why not have aptitude be a
complete replacement for apt-get? I mean, if aptitude already replaces
some sufficiently large portion of apt-get's functionality, why not take it the
rest of the way so that aptitude users can stay with aptitude? Of
course I ask this purely out of curiosity as I have zero time ATM to
put into hacking on aptitude. :( 

one of the things that keeps recurring here is various discussions
about aptitude and its supposed propensity for removing whole swaths
of packages at inopportune moments. A lot of folks blame this on
switching back and forth between aptitude and apt-get. Of course,
you've said that this won't happen, and I believe you, but there is
still this impression being perpetuated on this list. My thinking is
that completing the duplication of functionality between apt-get and
aptitude would eliminate the percieved problem. Of course that's not a
very good reason to write code ;-P. 

> 
>   So I guess the answer wrt plans is that I have vague and mushy plans
> to implement build-dep, and no particular interest in implementing
> source (there are many higher-priority items in the input queue).

thanks for the update. We all love to hear about this stuff directly
from time to time.

thanks again for your work on debian too! its changed my life,
frankly.

A


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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Daniel Burrows]

  Thanks for the kind words. :)

  At the risk of spoling the mystery,

On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 05:22:16PM -0600, Nate Duehr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was 
heard to say:
> I think the niftiest feature (and one that still has me scratching my head 
> as to how you accomplished it) is the MOUSE control in curses over SSH from 
> a WINDOWS box?!  That's amazing.

  Turns out it's actually quite easy.  See mouse(3ncurses) for the
details.  Now you can amaze your friends with your curses knowledge. :-)

  Daniel


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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Daniel Burrows]

On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 09:25:02AM -0700, Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]> was heard to say:
> On Mon, Oct 29, 2007 at 08:03:42PM -0400, Celejar wrote:
> > On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 00:13:23 -0500
> > Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > > On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 10:06:59 -0700, Daniel Burrows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > said: 
> > > 
> > > >   I'd say the main difference is that apt-get is a command-line tool,
> > > > whereas aptitude is an interactive tool that can be driven from the
> > > > command-line.
> > > 
> > > Are there still command line usages of apt-get that are not
> > >  exactly the same in aptitude?  And has apt-get started keeping track of
> > 
> > The classic examples that arise periodically on the list are apt-get's
> > 'build-dep' and 'source' actions, which apparently have no obvious
> > aptitude versions.
> 
> this bothers me, since I mostly use aptitude. When I need a build-dep
> or source, I'm concerned that later aptitude may wipe something
> inadvertantly. Do you know if there are plans to implement these
> commands into aptitude? Or will apt-get always remain, so that its not
> a problem?

  aptitude shouldn't wipe out packages installed with apt-get, period
full stop.

  The thing that bothers me, sometimes, about build-dep is that I have no
way of deleting the build-dep once I don't need it.  There would be real
value in adding this command to aptitude if there was a way to tag
packages installed by it for future removal.  (one could also get crazy
and imagine putting arbitrary tags on packages)

  I don't see the point of duplicating the functionality of "source",
except that it means you can avoid running apt-get.

  So I guess the answer wrt plans is that I have vague and mushy plans
to implement build-dep, and no particular interest in implementing
source (there are many higher-priority items in the input queue).

  Daniel


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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Richard Lyons]

On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 05:22:16PM -0600, Nate Duehr wrote:

[...]
> aptitude is by far one of the best package management tools out  
> there.  Newbies and folks really stuck in the graphic-oriented/desktop  
> user world may like synaptic better, but for just getting things done  
> -- aptitude wins hands down, almost all the time.

I do agree!  Just occasionally, I fire up synaptic to browse a category,
say stuff to do with sound, or mail for example.  It is slightly easier
in synaptic to browse than it is in aptitude.  And I wish you could
reverse direction in mid-search in aptitude.  I often race past a
relevant match by being too quick on the "n".  If only "b" for back or
"p" for previous or "N" or whatever switched the direction without
having to reenter the search using \ or page up enough times to probably
pass whatever it was you didn't quite see...

Anyway, niggles apart, aptitude rules OK.

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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Nate Duehr]

On Oct 29, 2007, at 9:49 PM, Daniel Burrows wrote:


 Also, I was trying to gently point out that there's more to aptitude
than the command-line.  Excluding generic shared code, the rest of
aptitude is about 6 times larger than the command-line interface,  
and it

would be nice to think people occasionally use all that stuff. :-)  I
occasionally notice people writing that they just discovered  
aptitude's

curses interface after using it for ages, so I know that this isn't
universally known.



A!  I see.  You were doing a little marketing for the CUI.  :-)

I actually knew about the curses interface before I ever tried the  
command-line... and like it more, since it has more powerful  
features.  But then again, I was coming from dselect, and very used to  
that curses interface years and years ago.


I think the niftiest feature (and one that still has me scratching my  
head as to how you accomplished it) is the MOUSE control in curses  
over SSH from a WINDOWS box?!  That's amazing.


(In case you're not sure what I mean... get on a Windows box, fire up  
PuTTY (I'm sure PuTTY is also "helping" in this scenario somehow) and  
then click on the menu items in the curses interface with a mouse.   
Whoa... it works?  I stumbled across that by accident one day, and  
it's one of my favorite things to show programmers who think they're  
really good curses programmers... "Can you make your app do THIS?"   
Heh heh.  Wild.)


aptitude is by far one of the best package management tools out  
there.  Newbies and folks really stuck in the graphic-oriented/desktop  
user world may like synaptic better, but for just getting things done  
-- aptitude wins hands down, almost all the time.


--
Nate Duehr
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 03:09:31PM -0400, Celejar wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 09:25:02 -0700
> Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

...
> > 
> > this bothers me, since I mostly use aptitude. When I need a build-dep
> > or source, I'm concerned that later aptitude may wipe something
> > inadvertantly. Do you know if there are plans to implement these
> > commands into aptitude? Or will apt-get always remain, so that its not
> > a problem?
> 
> I really don't know; I have never built anything (except kernels and
> modules with kernel-package) from Debian source packages.  Why not ask
> Daniel directly?
> 

'cause that's too easy? 

;-)

I did in another sub-thread, we'll see what happens.

A


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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Celejar]

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 09:25:02 -0700
Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 29, 2007 at 08:03:42PM -0400, Celejar wrote:
> > On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 00:13:23 -0500
> > Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > > On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 10:06:59 -0700, Daniel Burrows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > said: 
> > > 
> > > >   I'd say the main difference is that apt-get is a command-line tool,
> > > > whereas aptitude is an interactive tool that can be driven from the
> > > > command-line.
> > > 
> > > Are there still command line usages of apt-get that are not
> > >  exactly the same in aptitude?  And has apt-get started keeping track of
> > 
> > The classic examples that arise periodically on the list are apt-get's
> > 'build-dep' and 'source' actions, which apparently have no obvious
> > aptitude versions.
> 
> this bothers me, since I mostly use aptitude. When I need a build-dep
> or source, I'm concerned that later aptitude may wipe something
> inadvertantly. Do you know if there are plans to implement these
> commands into aptitude? Or will apt-get always remain, so that its not
> a problem?

I really don't know; I have never built anything (except kernels and
modules with kernel-package) from Debian source packages.  Why not ask
Daniel directly?

> A

Celejar
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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 11:50:37AM +0100, Dal wrote:
> Daniel Burrows wrote:
>> On Mon, Oct 29, 2007 at 12:14:18AM -0600, Nate Duehr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
>> was heard to say:
>>   
>>> On Oct 28, 2007, at 11:06 AM, Daniel Burrows wrote:
>>> 
  I'd say the main difference is that apt-get is a command-line tool,
 whereas aptitude is an interactive tool that can be driven from the
 command-line.
   
>>> I would disagree.  Aptitude supports command-line operation as well as 
>>> interactive.
>>> 
>>
>>   What I meant by that is that the project's goals and focus ...


> Aptitude user interface is really great. When I started with debian there 
> was just dselect and I don't think that was user friendly.
> Just aptitude and synaptic too make debian easier for normal users. Anyway 
> it's pity that aptitude doesn't (maybe I just can't find it) source 
> download. Something like apt-get source package.
>
> Anyway it has really better problems-with-packages solving :)
>

yeah, Daniel, great work!

just want to ask the same question as above as regards build-dep? Will
that become a part of aptitude in the future or will it remain in
apt-get with the two packages maintained in parallel? 

thanks for your work on debian!

A


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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Mon, Oct 29, 2007 at 08:03:42PM -0400, Celejar wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 00:13:23 -0500
> Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 10:06:59 -0700, Daniel Burrows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > said: 
> > 
> > >   I'd say the main difference is that apt-get is a command-line tool,
> > > whereas aptitude is an interactive tool that can be driven from the
> > > command-line.
> > 
> > Are there still command line usages of apt-get that are not
> >  exactly the same in aptitude?  And has apt-get started keeping track of
> 
> The classic examples that arise periodically on the list are apt-get's
> 'build-dep' and 'source' actions, which apparently have no obvious
> aptitude versions.

this bothers me, since I mostly use aptitude. When I need a build-dep
or source, I'm concerned that later aptitude may wipe something
inadvertantly. Do you know if there are plans to implement these
commands into aptitude? Or will apt-get always remain, so that its not
a problem?

A


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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Dal]

Daniel Burrows wrote:

On Mon, Oct 29, 2007 at 12:14:18AM -0600, Nate Duehr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was 
heard to say:
  

On Oct 28, 2007, at 11:06 AM, Daniel Burrows wrote:


 I'd say the main difference is that apt-get is a command-line tool,
whereas aptitude is an interactive tool that can be driven from the
command-line.
  
I would disagree.  Aptitude supports command-line operation as well as 
interactive.



  What I meant by that is that the project's goals and focus have always
been on interactivity.  This isn't a matter of excluding particular
lines of development, but most of the work that goes into aptitude is
weighted towards its interactive features.  That's one reason, for
instance, that the "show" output from the command-line is prettier
than in apt-get, but slower and less useful to scripts.  These
deficiencies could be corrected, but they are lower-priority than, say,
improving interactive dependency handling and fixing UI glitches.

  Also, I was trying to gently point out that there's more to aptitude
than the command-line.  Excluding generic shared code, the rest of
aptitude is about 6 times larger than the command-line interface, and it
would be nice to think people occasionally use all that stuff. :-)  I
occasionally notice people writing that they just discovered aptitude's
curses interface after using it for ages, so I know that this isn't
universally known.

  Daniel


  
Aptitude user interface is really great. When I started with debian 
there was just dselect and I don't think that was user friendly.
Just aptitude and synaptic too make debian easier for normal users. 
Anyway it's pity that aptitude doesn't (maybe I just can't find it) 
source download. Something like apt-get source package.


Anyway it has really better problems-with-packages solving :)


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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Daniel Burrows]

On Mon, Oct 29, 2007 at 12:14:18AM -0600, Nate Duehr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was 
heard to say:
>
> On Oct 28, 2007, at 11:06 AM, Daniel Burrows wrote:
>>  I'd say the main difference is that apt-get is a command-line tool,
>> whereas aptitude is an interactive tool that can be driven from the
>> command-line.
>
>
> I would disagree.  Aptitude supports command-line operation as well as 
> interactive.

  What I meant by that is that the project's goals and focus have always
been on interactivity.  This isn't a matter of excluding particular
lines of development, but most of the work that goes into aptitude is
weighted towards its interactive features.  That's one reason, for
instance, that the "show" output from the command-line is prettier
than in apt-get, but slower and less useful to scripts.  These
deficiencies could be corrected, but they are lower-priority than, say,
improving interactive dependency handling and fixing UI glitches.

  Also, I was trying to gently point out that there's more to aptitude
than the command-line.  Excluding generic shared code, the rest of
aptitude is about 6 times larger than the command-line interface, and it
would be nice to think people occasionally use all that stuff. :-)  I
occasionally notice people writing that they just discovered aptitude's
curses interface after using it for ages, so I know that this isn't
universally known.

  Daniel


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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Preston Boyington]

Daniel Burrows wrote:
> 
>   Identical behavior to apt-get has never been a goal for me, so the
> answer is almost certainly "yes".  (not that I gratuitously break
> apt-get compatibility; it's just not something I track one way or the
> other unless I get bug reports)
> 

one thing i noticed from my recent switch was the difference between how
apt does searches:

apt-cache search foo

and how aptitude (non curses) does the search:

aptitude search ~dfoo

with aptitude i need to add the "~d" before my criteria to be sure it
looks in the package descriptions.

i only find it odd because i would have expected it to maybe be like so:

aptitude search -d foo

not an issue, just a difference that i though was not as intuitive as it
could have been.

that said, thank you very much for this wonderful package.  my
transition to it was flawless on my mixed source laptop and i am gaining
comfort with the curses interface daily.

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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Celejar]

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 00:14:18 -0600
Nate Duehr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> On Oct 28, 2007, at 11:06 AM, Daniel Burrows wrote:

[snip]

> >  I'd say the main difference is that apt-get is a command-line tool,
> > whereas aptitude is an interactive tool that can be driven from the
> > command-line.
> 
> 
> I would disagree.  Aptitude supports command-line operation as well as  
> interactive.

You do realize that Daniel is both the author and maintainer of
aptitude :) ?

[Thanks, Daniel, for your Debian, aptitude and d-u work!]

> Nate Duehr
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Celejar
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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Nate Duehr]

On Oct 29, 2007, at 6:00 PM, Celejar wrote:


On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 00:14:18 -0600
Nate Duehr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



On Oct 28, 2007, at 11:06 AM, Daniel Burrows wrote:


[snip]


I'd say the main difference is that apt-get is a command-line tool,
whereas aptitude is an interactive tool that can be driven from the
command-line.



I would disagree.  Aptitude supports command-line operation as well  
as

interactive.


You do realize that Daniel is both the author and maintainer of
aptitude :) ?


Nope.

I guess he forgot that you can drive aptitude just fine from the  
command line?  ;-)



[Thanks, Daniel, for your Debian, aptitude and d-u work!]


Yep.  Good job.  Aptitude walks the dog, compared to apt-get.

I'm an old dselect guy who "migrated" to aptitude.

It's good stuff.

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Nate Duehr
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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Celejar]

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 00:13:23 -0500
Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 10:06:59 -0700, Daniel Burrows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: 
> 
> >   I'd say the main difference is that apt-get is a command-line tool,
> > whereas aptitude is an interactive tool that can be driven from the
> > command-line.
> 
> Are there still command line usages of apt-get that are not
>  exactly the same in aptitude?  And has apt-get started keeping track of

The classic examples that arise periodically on the list are apt-get's
'build-dep' and 'source' actions, which apparently have no obvious
aptitude versions.

> manoj

Celejar
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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Nate Duehr]

On Oct 28, 2007, at 11:06 AM, Daniel Burrows wrote:

On Sat, Oct 27, 2007 at 10:12:31AM -0700, Amit Uttamchandani <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> was heard to say:

On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 10:01:02 -0700
Jeff Grossman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I was just reading the forums at forums.debian.org and came across a
thread about apt-get and aptitude.  I just installed Debian this  
week

after moving over from Gentoo.  I have only been using the apt-get
method because that is all I ever saw mentioned.  But, I guess  
aptitude
is the preferred Debian method now.  Is there a safe way for me to  
start
using aptitude instead of apt-get?  What is the best way for me to  
make

the switch?


For new installs it is actually recommended to use aptitude.  
However, from following the recent apt-get vs aptitude threads,  
there doesn't seem to be any big difference between the two. So if  
you are comfortable with apt-get there is no need to switch.


 I'd say the main difference is that apt-get is a command-line tool,
whereas aptitude is an interactive tool that can be driven from the
command-line.



I would disagree.  Aptitude supports command-line operation as well as  
interactive.


aptitude install 
aptitude update
aptitude upgrade
aptitude remove   <-- Added benefit, cruft goes away too.

All work just fine... and don't launch the CUI.  (Character User  
Interface?)


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Nate Duehr
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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Daniel Burrows]

On Mon, Oct 29, 2007 at 12:13:23AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
was heard to say:
> On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 10:06:59 -0700, Daniel Burrows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: 
> 
> >   I'd say the main difference is that apt-get is a command-line tool,
> > whereas aptitude is an interactive tool that can be driven from the
> > command-line.
> 
> Are there still command line usages of apt-get that are not
>  exactly the same in aptitude?

  Identical behavior to apt-get has never been a goal for me, so the
answer is almost certainly "yes".  (not that I gratuitously break
apt-get compatibility; it's just not something I track one way or the
other unless I get bug reports)

>  And has apt-get started keeping track of
>  automatically installed packages, so cruft removal is not an issue with
>  apt-get, as it has been in the past?

  Yes, in sid.

  Daniel


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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 10:06:59 -0700, Daniel Burrows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: 

>   I'd say the main difference is that apt-get is a command-line tool,
> whereas aptitude is an interactive tool that can be driven from the
> command-line.

Are there still command line usages of apt-get that are not
 exactly the same in aptitude?  And has apt-get started keeping track of
 automatically installed packages, so cruft removal is not an issue with
 apt-get, as it has been in the past?

manoj
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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Daniel Burrows]

On Sat, Oct 27, 2007 at 10:12:31AM -0700, Amit Uttamchandani <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]> was heard to say:
> On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 10:01:02 -0700
> Jeff Grossman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > I was just reading the forums at forums.debian.org and came across a 
> > thread about apt-get and aptitude.  I just installed Debian this week 
> > after moving over from Gentoo.  I have only been using the apt-get 
> > method because that is all I ever saw mentioned.  But, I guess aptitude 
> > is the preferred Debian method now.  Is there a safe way for me to start 
> > using aptitude instead of apt-get?  What is the best way for me to make 
> > the switch?
> 
> For new installs it is actually recommended to use aptitude. However, from 
> following the recent apt-get vs aptitude threads, there doesn't seem to be 
> any big difference between the two. So if you are comfortable with apt-get 
> there is no need to switch.

  I'd say the main difference is that apt-get is a command-line tool,
whereas aptitude is an interactive tool that can be driven from the
command-line.

  Daniel


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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Steve Kemp]

On Sat Oct 27, 2007 at 12:04:34 -0600, Nate Duehr wrote:

> The main difference is that aptitude in default configuration mode will track 
> dependencies added for packages requested and if no package needs the 
> dependency anymore, it can remove it.

> apt-get isn't that smart.

  This is no longer the case, apt-get can do a similar thing.  For
 example upon my current system:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ apt-get install less
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
less is already the newest version.
The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
  libjpeg-progs jhead
Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them.
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 13 not upgraded.


Steve
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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Paul Johnson]

On Oct 27, 10:10 am, Jeff Grossman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I was just reading the forums at forums.debian.org and came across a
> thread about apt-get and aptitude.  I just installed Debian this week
> after moving over from Gentoo.  I have only been using the apt-get
> method because that is all I ever saw mentioned.  But, I guess aptitude
> is the preferred Debian method now.  Is there a safe way for me to start
> using aptitude instead of apt-get?  What is the best way for me to make
> the switch?

Just switch.


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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Chris Lale]

Nate Duehr wrote:
> 
> On Oct 27, 2007, at 11:01 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote:
> 
>> I was just reading the forums at forums.debian.org and came across a
>> thread about apt-get and aptitude.  I just installed Debian this week
>> after moving over from Gentoo.  I have only been using the apt-get
>> method because that is all I ever saw mentioned.  But, I guess
>> aptitude is the preferred Debian method now.  Is there a safe way for
>> me to start using aptitude instead of apt-get?  What is the best way
>> for me to make the switch?
> 
> 
> The main difference is that aptitude in default configuration mode will
> track dependencies added for packages requested and if no package needs
> the dependency anymore, it can remove it.
> 
> apt-get isn't that smart.
> 

If you use both aptitude and apt-get, read the NewbieDOC article about the magic
bullet[1] "aptitude keep-all".

[1]
http://newbiedoc.berlios.de/wiki/Aptitude_-_using_together_with_Synaptic_and_Apt-get

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Chris.


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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Nate Duehr]

On Oct 27, 2007, at 11:01 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote:

I was just reading the forums at forums.debian.org and came across a  
thread about apt-get and aptitude.  I just installed Debian this  
week after moving over from Gentoo.  I have only been using the apt- 
get method because that is all I ever saw mentioned.  But, I guess  
aptitude is the preferred Debian method now.  Is there a safe way  
for me to start using aptitude instead of apt-get?  What is the best  
way for me to make the switch?



The main difference is that aptitude in default configuration mode  
will track dependencies added for packages requested and if no package  
needs the dependency anymore, it can remove it.


apt-get isn't that smart.

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[EMAIL PROTECTED]




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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Andrei Popescu]

On Sat, Oct 27, 2007 at 10:12:31AM -0700, Amit Uttamchandani wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 10:01:02 -0700
> Jeff Grossman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > I was just reading the forums at forums.debian.org and came across a 
> > thread about apt-get and aptitude.  I just installed Debian this week 
> > after moving over from Gentoo.  I have only been using the apt-get 
> > method because that is all I ever saw mentioned.  But, I guess aptitude 
> > is the preferred Debian method now.  Is there a safe way for me to start 
> > using aptitude instead of apt-get?  What is the best way for me to make 
> > the switch?
> 
> For new installs it is actually recommended to use aptitude. However, 
> from following the recent apt-get vs aptitude threads, there doesn't 
> seem to be any big difference between the two. So if you are 
> comfortable with apt-get there is no need to switch.

Unless you are running sid there are big differences between how apt-get 
and aptitude are handling things (dependencies, recommends)

> One of the few advantages of aptitude that I have been regularly 
> hearing is that it handles package uninstalls better. For example, it 
> is better at apt-get when removing unused dependencies after removing 
> a package.

It is better then apt-get as in apt-get can't do it at all ;) (except 
newer versions).
 
Regards,
Andrei
-- 
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(Albert Einstein)


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Re: Apt-Get or Aptitude

[Amit Uttamchandani]

On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 10:01:02 -0700
Jeff Grossman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I was just reading the forums at forums.debian.org and came across a 
> thread about apt-get and aptitude.  I just installed Debian this week 
> after moving over from Gentoo.  I have only been using the apt-get 
> method because that is all I ever saw mentioned.  But, I guess aptitude 
> is the preferred Debian method now.  Is there a safe way for me to start 
> using aptitude instead of apt-get?  What is the best way for me to make 
> the switch?

For new installs it is actually recommended to use aptitude. However, from 
following the recent apt-get vs aptitude threads, there doesn't seem to be any 
big difference between the two. So if you are comfortable with apt-get there is 
no need to switch.

One of the few advantages of aptitude that I have been regularly hearing is 
that it handles package uninstalls better. For example, it is better at apt-get 
when removing unused dependencies after removing a package.

And finally, I really like the aptitude ncurses based package manager. It made 
things quite simple for me during my transition from Mac OS X to Debian Etch.

Hope this helps,
Amit


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