Re: Bug in acroread?
Mike McCarty wrote: Joe Hart wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I doubt that this is specific to debian, but has anyone noticed this bug in acroread? I've noticed that if I print pages in reverse, I can't print in the forward direction until I quit the program and restart it. What happens when you use ghostview to print the same pdf? Or KPDF if you use KDE? Those are _supported_ pdf viewers, while acroread is proprietary. Perhaps you should take this up with Adobe, since they are the only ones that can fix it. Amazing. OT threads covering abortion, religion, politics etc. ad nauseum persist for weeks with hardly a complaint, and this guy asks a question which is actually more or less on topic, and he gets chastized. I agree. There is a tendency on the list to chastise topical questions with google for it while OT threads go on for ever. BTW the list's track record in actually answering and solving *topical* questions, in my opinion, is 'C'. Hugo In answer, I have not noticed that. Normally, if I select reverse order print, then I want it to stay that way, and have not as a consequence had that problem. I'm doing some stuff which precludes trying a test right now, but when I've got some time I'll give it a try. Mike -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Mike McCarty wrote: Joe Hart wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I doubt that this is specific to debian, but has anyone noticed this bug in acroread? I've noticed that if I print pages in reverse, I can't print in the forward direction until I quit the program and restart it. What happens when you use ghostview to print the same pdf? Or KPDF if you use KDE? Those are _supported_ pdf viewers, while acroread is proprietary. Perhaps you should take this up with Adobe, since they are the only ones that can fix it. Amazing. OT threads covering abortion, religion, politics etc. ad nauseum persist for weeks with hardly a complaint, and this guy asks a question which is actually more or less on topic, and he gets chastized. I agree. There is a tendency on the list to chastise topical questions with google for it while OT threads go on for ever. BTW the list's track record in actually answering and solving *topical* questions, in my opinion, is 'C'. Hugo I've already clarified my position earlier in this thread, but I will do it again for you. How is it chastising to ask a user what happens with other tools? Or to point them to the proper support channel for the question they are asking? I never said to use google, nor did I condemn him for using the software that he choses to use. From what I know about Debian, and the Linux world in general, the freedom to choose which programs or distributions we use is our right, and nobody should be condemning anyone else for them choosing something other than what they chose. So many flame wars are started because This is better better than that type of messages. My intention was not to start a flame war, nor was it to insult the original poster. Please read the whole thread before making comments like that. As for your comment about the list itself, if you don't like the list, then don't subscribe to it. Joe - -- Registerd Linux user #443289 at http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF9+SRiXBCVWpc5J4RAtPVAJ9SmoVwSVe+IJ1BU2V7vPwpa8iIRQCeNYqK hC+bFIX+EHStX5V6qr8mt14= =xmU0 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
On Tue, Mar 13, 2007 at 04:30:52PM -0400, Celejar wrote: On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 16:12:39 -0400 Juergen Fiedler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] For documents on the web I have this inelegant and heinous trick: I google for them. If a doc is in PDF format, Google will give you the option to view it as HTML. The converted version is not always pretty, but more often than not sufficient to get the information I need. Obviously doesn't work all the time, but it has helped me out occasionally. Why not just use a software pdf to text / html / whatever converter, such as pdftotext (in xpdf-utils)? Celejar I typically only use Google on computers that don't belong to me and that don't have a PDF reader installed - and most of those don't have xpdf-utils installed, either. --j signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug in acroread?
On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 16:58:49 +0100 Joe Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Celejar wrote: On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 11:23:27 +0100 Joe Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] As for acroread goes, it has turned into a huge package. The version in my apt-cache shows 7.0.9, which is not the newest version, and it's a whopping 22911748 bytes. I imagine that 8.0 is even bigger. While KPDF may not be as feature rich, it does the job, and weighs in at 742592 bytes, and can embed nicely into konqueror. Don't forget that kpdf is based on xpdf (which is what I use). Ah the hidden dependencies. xpdf is a dummy package, that pulls in xpdf-reader and xpdf-utils and xpdf-common. Adding those up comes quite close to what acroread uses, so I guess my comparison is pretty useless. Um, no. Compressed Size:Uncompressed Size xpdf-common 60.9258 xpdf-reader 769 1937 xpdf-utils 13933543 total .9 5738 acroread22.9M 56M So acroread uses about 10 times as much space as xpdf (and I haven't even looked closely at acroread's dependencies vs. those of xpdf). I guess it is almost like comparing different types of apples. The one thing to remember though is that all of the above mentioned files are open source except for acroread. For people that are dfsg purists, they would balk at the idea of installing it. I'm not a hard-line purist, but enough of one to strongly prefer the dfsg option barring a compelling reason otherwise. Personally, I have no problem with proprietary software, if there is no viable alternative. For example, I use the nvidia (9755) drivers because the open source version is pitifully slow on this system, and it can't support beryl. Madwifi is one of the only non-free bits I use, and it is really in the spirit of freedom. Celejar -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 09:11:36 -0400 Juergen Fiedler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Mar 13, 2007 at 04:30:52PM -0400, Celejar wrote: On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 16:12:39 -0400 Juergen Fiedler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] For documents on the web I have this inelegant and heinous trick: I google for them. If a doc is in PDF format, Google will give you the option to view it as HTML. The converted version is not always pretty, but more often than not sufficient to get the information I need. Obviously doesn't work all the time, but it has helped me out occasionally. Why not just use a software pdf to text / html / whatever converter, such as pdftotext (in xpdf-utils)? Celejar I typically only use Google on computers that don't belong to me and that don't have a PDF reader installed - and most of those don't have xpdf-utils installed, either. Of course. I also use google's view as HTML in such situations; waiting for Acrobat (plus its boatload of default plugins) to load can be agonizing, especially on an older machine. Celejar -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 04:35:07 -0600 Hugo Vanwoerkom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] I agree. There is a tendency on the list to chastise topical questions with google for it while OT threads go on for ever. BTW the list's track record in actually answering and solving *topical* questions, in my opinion, is 'C'. How should we grade? On a curve against other lists / fora? Some objective measure? Celejar -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
Celejar wrote: So acroread uses about 10 times as much space as xpdf (and I haven't even looked closely at acroread's dependencies vs. those of xpdf). Isn't Acroread statically linked? -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Celejar wrote: Ah the hidden dependencies. xpdf is a dummy package, that pulls in xpdf-reader and xpdf-utils and xpdf-common. Adding those up comes quite close to what acroread uses, so I guess my comparison is pretty useless. Um, no. Compressed Size:Uncompressed Size xpdf-common 60.9258 xpdf-reader 769 1937 xpdf-utils13933543 total .9 5738 acroread 22.9M 56M So acroread uses about 10 times as much space as xpdf (and I haven't even looked closely at acroread's dependencies vs. those of xpdf). gtk2 perhaps? That's a big one. Of course a lot of apps need that one. Not my KDE ones though. I'm not a hard-line purist, but enough of one to strongly prefer the dfsg option barring a compelling reason otherwise. I agree, yet I get berated when I point out that Debian does not support acroread because it is proprietary to Adobe. Go figure. Joe - -- Registerd Linux user #443289 at http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF+BYMiXBCVWpc5J4RAug0AJwOKqprUhh7xDK7B1Z+kb1VS64mLgCdGlSw tibPYIk1AWov07R5QGlK5Xw= =e7NU -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 04:35 -0600, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: [snip] I agree. There is a tendency on the list to chastise topical questions with google for it while OT threads go on for ever. BTW the list's track record in actually answering and solving *topical* questions, in my opinion, is 'C'. However, your grading of a C falls squarely on your ability to ask full qualified and briefed questions that we understand. Your history of questions isn't all that and a bag of chips you realize. Now, I am not starting a fight here, just that smartly asked questions and properly briefed ones at that (meaning all info needed to make an assessment and proper determination of the actual problem) seem to be your issue with the things you are doing. You do have to admit, you are not doing typical Debian User stuff with your setups. I know I am not. I grade your topical question asking a D in some instances and at best for initial questions a B. Though you do ask A graded question on a regular basis. And no, Hugo, this is not really aimed at you, just that a swathing grade like you just gave D-U needs a swathing back. It shows that many need to ask smarter and more informative questions before we can answer them. -- greg, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Novell's Directory Services is a competitive product to Microsoft's Active Directory in much the same way that the Saturn V is a competitive product to those dinky little model rockets that kids light off down at the playfield. -- Thane Walkup -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 10:16 -0500, John Hasler wrote: Celejar wrote: So acroread uses about 10 times as much space as xpdf (and I haven't even looked closely at acroread's dependencies vs. those of xpdf). Isn't Acroread statically linked? Yes, and as a rule, Debian frowns heavily on those kinds of things. -- greg, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Novell's Directory Services is a competitive product to Microsoft's Active Directory in much the same way that the Saturn V is a competitive product to those dinky little model rockets that kids light off down at the playfield. -- Thane Walkup -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Greg Folkert wrote: On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 04:35 -0600, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: [snip] I agree. There is a tendency on the list to chastise topical questions with google for it while OT threads go on for ever. BTW the list's track record in actually answering and solving *topical* questions, in my opinion, is 'C'. However, your grading of a C falls squarely on your ability to ask full qualified and briefed questions that we understand. Your history of questions isn't all that and a bag of chips you realize. Now, I am not starting a fight here, just that smartly asked questions and properly briefed ones at that (meaning all info needed to make an assessment and proper determination of the actual problem) seem to be your issue with the things you are doing. You do have to admit, you are not doing typical Debian User stuff with your setups. I know I am not. I grade your topical question asking a D in some instances and at best for initial questions a B. Though you do ask A graded question on a regular basis. And no, Hugo, this is not really aimed at you, just that a swathing grade like you just gave D-U needs a swathing back. It shows that many need to ask smarter and more informative questions before we can answer them. Greg, you're spot on. I think this calls for the infamous: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html Maybe then we can get good questions instead of the: It doesn't work when I do this, how can I make it work? type of questions. - From what I've seen from this mailing list, it's not the type of place where people shout RTFM and STFW, but gosh darn people should. The man and info pages are there for a reason. And thanks go out to the people who defend my position on dfsg. Joe - -- Registerd Linux user #443289 at http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF+C6PiXBCVWpc5J4RAgn8AKCamwPejjLvHMUzkqsn+oIq+KJovQCfcF3S 44j6INQTpIZsh6i2KB+EaQc= =y48H -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/14/07 10:34, Joe Hart wrote: Celejar wrote: [snip] I agree, yet I get berated when I point out that Debian does not support acroread because it is proprietary to Adobe. Go figure. Can you post a link (from the archives) to the post in which you think you were chastised? I've been following this link and never got the impression that you were chastised. Joe -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFF+D9kS9HxQb37XmcRAugjAKCD9aOY+JNddiVESdXSCkQaV0AWZQCfYuS7 T4K60rTEHaZGbXhACDcrV7o= =cYsl -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ron Johnson wrote: On 03/14/07 10:34, Joe Hart wrote: Celejar wrote: [snip] I agree, yet I get when I point out that Debian does not support acroread because it is proprietary to Adobe. Go figure. Can you post a link (from the archives) to the post in which you think you were chastised? I've been following this link and never got the impression that you were chastised. Joe It's in this thread. Link I found contains messages from 2 people who found fault with my original reply to the OP. I didn't say I was being chastised, I said berated, which I define as scolded. Mike McCarty claims that I am doing the chastising. We already know he doesn't like Unix or Debian, we don't know which, and Hugo Vanwoerkom who thinks this list is mediocre at helping people. It appears that both of them think I was not being helpful and stated it in not so polite terms. Here's the link: http://people.debian.org/~terpstra/message/20070314.103507.be5da96a.en.html I am just trying to be helpful, and when someone complains about a bug in software that doesn't comply with the dfsg, I suggested that they try supported software or take their problem upstream. I don't see a problem with my answer. Since the original post, we have discussed the bloat of acroread and the alternative pdf viewers, and never once did I think this was off topic to this mailing list. I still don't. Joe - -- Registerd Linux user #443289 at http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF+Eb6iXBCVWpc5J4RAmT2AKDIKf80CC2qimYs4T2zhqsUwrzDXgCgrgxh ZiMV8FvudLv4QU1Y7/CtT5E= =TqYs -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
On Wed, Mar 14, 2007 at 16:34:36 +0100, Joe Hart wrote: [...] I agree, yet I get berated when I point out that Debian does not support acroread because it is proprietary to Adobe. Go figure. It is probably not worth to harp on this much longer, but as far as I remember it you received some slight criticism because the OP of this thread asked something like I am using Adobe reader and I have this problem, does anybody else see this? and you reacted with It is proprietary, so how can we support it? Go talk to Adobe!. I also found this a bit inappropriate, considering that the OP had not asked you (or anybody else) for support, but he just wanted to check if it is a known general problem or if it would make sense for him to look in more detail at his specific configuration. -- Regards, Florian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Greg Folkert wrote: On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 10:16 -0500, John Hasler wrote: Celejar wrote: So acroread uses about 10 times as much space as xpdf (and I haven't even looked closely at acroread's dependencies vs. those of xpdf). Isn't Acroread statically linked? Yes, and as a rule, Debian frowns heavily on those kinds of things. Oh! $ ldd /usr/lib/Adobe/Acrobat7.0/Reader/intellinux/bin/acroread linux-gate.so.1 = (0xe000) libBIB.so = not found libACE.so = not found libAGM.so = not found libCoolType.so = not found libAXE16SharedExpat.so = not found libJP2K.so = not found libResAccess.so = not found libdl.so.2 = /lib/tls/libdl.so.2 (0xb7f08000) libXext.so.6 = /usr/lib/libXext.so.6 (0xb7efa000) libX11.so.6 = /usr/lib/libX11.so.6 (0xb7e0d000) libm.so.6 = /lib/tls/libm.so.6 (0xb7de8000) libgdk_pixbuf_xlib-2.0.so.0 = /usr/lib/libgdk_pixbuf_xlib-2.0.so.0 (0xb7dd9000) libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 = /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 (0xb7aef000) libgdk-x11-2.0.so.0 = /usr/lib/libgdk-x11-2.0.so.0 (0xb7a6e000) libatk-1.0.so.0 = /usr/lib/libatk-1.0.so.0 (0xb7a54000) libgdk_pixbuf-2.0.so.0 = /usr/lib/libgdk_pixbuf-2.0.so.0 (0xb7a3d000) libpangox-1.0.so.0 = /usr/lib/libpangox-1.0.so.0 (0xb7a32000) libpango-1.0.so.0 = /usr/lib/libpango-1.0.so.0 (0xb79f8000) libgobject-2.0.so.0 = /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so.0 (0xb79be000) libgmodule-2.0.so.0 = /usr/lib/libgmodule-2.0.so.0 (0xb79bb000) libglib-2.0.so.0 = /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0 (0xb7929000) libc.so.6 = /lib/tls/libc.so.6 (0xb77f6000) libpthread.so.0 = /lib/tls/libpthread.so.0 (0xb77e4000) /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0xb7f2e000) libXau.so.6 = /usr/lib/libXau.so.6 (0xb77e1000) libXdmcp.so.6 = /usr/lib/libXdmcp.so.6 (0xb77dc000) libpangocairo-1.0.so.0 = /usr/lib/libpangocairo-1.0.so.0 (0xb77d4000) libcairo.so.2 = /usr/lib/libcairo.so.2 (0xb7771000) libfontconfig.so.1 = /usr/lib/libfontconfig.so.1 (0xb7746000) libXrender.so.1 = /usr/lib/libXrender.so.1 (0xb773e000) libXinerama.so.1 = /usr/lib/libXinerama.so.1 (0xb773b000) libXi.so.6 = /usr/lib/libXi.so.6 (0xb7733000) libXrandr.so.2 = /usr/lib/libXrandr.so.2 (0xb773) libXcursor.so.1 = /usr/lib/libXcursor.so.1 (0xb7726000) libXfixes.so.3 = /usr/lib/libXfixes.so.3 (0xb7721000) librt.so.1 = /lib/tls/librt.so.1 (0xb7719000) libpangoft2-1.0.so.0 = /usr/lib/libpangoft2-1.0.so.0 (0xb76ee000) libfreetype.so.6 = /usr/lib/libfreetype.so.6 (0xb7684000) libz.so.1 = /usr/lib/libz.so.1 (0xb766f000) libpng12.so.0 = /usr/lib/libpng12.so.0 (0xb764c000) libexpat.so.1 = /usr/lib/libexpat.so.1 (0xb762c000) $ - -- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF+Ea+u4tRirKTPYwRAgeqAJoDi8zzakQ30Z64tqnHdKvKgWaOLQCffgMK te/plgsg0loR68BoyTRLcqM= =QMnf -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Florian Kulzer wrote: On Wed, Mar 14, 2007 at 16:34:36 +0100, Joe Hart wrote: [...] I agree, yet I get berated when I point out that Debian does not support acroread because it is proprietary to Adobe. Go figure. It is probably not worth to harp on this much longer, but as far as I remember it you received some slight criticism because the OP of this thread asked something like I am using Adobe reader and I have this problem, does anybody else see this? and you reacted with It is proprietary, so how can we support it? Go talk to Adobe!. I also found this a bit inappropriate, considering that the OP had not asked you (or anybody else) for support, but he just wanted to check if it is a known general problem or if it would make sense for him to look in more detail at his specific configuration. I was all prepared to forget it until Hugo spoke up. I used much kinder wording that that, but yes, that's basically what I said. I already pointed out my reasoning and my dislike for the company in question. Incidently, only one person confirmed the behavior, it seems the majority of people that replied in the thread use xpdf based tools so I am not alone. Matter dropped. Thread closed for me. Joe - -- Registerd Linux user #443289 at http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF+EttiXBCVWpc5J4RAvWRAKC68Mc+qByrL1ibOPOfNPwlX6eLQQCff6PT rd7N5/ZbU2rw2EV7ZBW0sRA= =ctVl -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/14/07 14:03, Joe Hart wrote: Ron Johnson wrote: On 03/14/07 10:34, Joe Hart wrote: Celejar wrote: [snip] I agree, yet I get when I point out that Debian does not support acroread because it is proprietary to Adobe. Go figure. Can you post a link (from the archives) to the post in which you think you were chastised? I've been following this link and never got the impression that you were chastised. Joe It's in this thread. Link I found contains messages from 2 people who found fault with my original reply to the OP. I didn't say I was being chastised, I said berated, which I define as scolded. Mike McCarty claims that I am doing the chastising. We already know he doesn't like Unix or Debian, we don't know which, and Hugo Vanwoerkom who thinks this list is mediocre at helping people. It appears that both of them think I was not being helpful and stated it in not so polite terms. Here's the link: http://people.debian.org/~terpstra/message/20070314.103507.be5da96a.en.html I am just trying to be helpful, and when someone complains about a bug in software that doesn't comply with the dfsg, I suggested that they try supported software or take their problem upstream. I don't see a problem with my answer. That's what I thought. However, I didn't read take this up with Adobe, since they are the only ones that can fix it. as chastisement, since Adobe really is the only place that can fix a bug in acroread. OTOH, I can see where it would be interpreted as a curt or dismissive response, even if it wasn't meant to be. Since the original post, we have discussed the bloat of acroread and the alternative pdf viewers, and never once did I think this was off topic to this mailing list. I still don't. Joe -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFF+FCKS9HxQb37XmcRAnwvAKDV1VVvHezqwxr+ox5R8PbYlxz6UgCeOO5A K0YqNBKH3Bkzr/r2S4vvgMw= =2kCD -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/13/07 01:16, Joe Hart wrote: [snip] Since you know so much about PDF files, let me ask you another question. Does PDF have DRM capabilities built in? They can be password encrypted. Don't know about anything else. Joe -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFF9lOwS9HxQb37XmcRAm4uAJ9oSLwhxDMMhkrbnsqnJ5QaKl38JgCgqz80 fWoyjcxm/CtS6BHHVaS/HiM= =dubc -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
On Tue, Mar 13, 2007 at 02:33:04 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/13/07 01:16, Joe Hart wrote: [snip] Since you know so much about PDF files, let me ask you another question. Does PDF have DRM capabilities built in? They can be password encrypted. Don't know about anything else. There are two different things: 1) A user password can be set. That means that the document is encrypted and you need the password to open the document. The old standard was 40bit encryption (due to US cryptography export restrictions) which can be brute-forced in quite a short time with modern computers. The new standard is 128 bit encryption. 2) An owner password can be set. This can be used to restrict what the user can do with the document. You can for example disallow printing totally, only allow low-quality print-outs or prevent the user from copying the content of the document. These restrictions have to honored by the PDF reader, of course. Most open-source readers either ignore the DRM restrictions or give you an easy way to turn them off; KPDF, for example, has an Obey DRM restrictions option which can be unchecked. (In the worst case you can find the DRM check in the source code, comment it out and recompile.) I believe that this is in violation of Adobe's licensing terms for the PDF standard, which AFAIK require that you implement the DRM if you code a PDF reader based on their specifications. Option 1) and 2) can also be combined, of course. It is furthermore possible to write custom plug-ins which impose additional restrictions. For example, we once got a reprint-PDF for an article that we had published in a scientific journal. This PDF required a plug-in so that it could contact the publisher's server to make sure we could only print 50 high-quality copies of the paper. Needless to say, this plug-in was only available for Windows. A nice way to take the P out of PDF... -- Regards, Florian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Florian Kulzer wrote: On Tue, Mar 13, 2007 at 02:33:04 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/13/07 01:16, Joe Hart wrote: [snip] Since you know so much about PDF files, let me ask you another question. Does PDF have DRM capabilities built in? They can be password encrypted. Don't know about anything else. There are two different things: 1) A user password can be set. That means that the document is encrypted and you need the password to open the document. The old standard was 40bit encryption (due to US cryptography export restrictions) which can be brute-forced in quite a short time with modern computers. The new standard is 128 bit encryption. 2) An owner password can be set. This can be used to restrict what the user can do with the document. You can for example disallow printing totally, only allow low-quality print-outs or prevent the user from copying the content of the document. These restrictions have to honored by the PDF reader, of course. Most open-source readers either ignore the DRM restrictions or give you an easy way to turn them off; KPDF, for example, has an Obey DRM restrictions option which can be unchecked. (In the worst case you can find the DRM check in the source code, comment it out and recompile.) I believe that this is in violation of Adobe's licensing terms for the PDF standard, which AFAIK require that you implement the DRM if you code a PDF reader based on their specifications. Option 1) and 2) can also be combined, of course. It is furthermore possible to write custom plug-ins which impose additional restrictions. For example, we once got a reprint-PDF for an article that we had published in a scientific journal. This PDF required a plug-in so that it could contact the publisher's server to make sure we could only print 50 high-quality copies of the paper. Needless to say, this plug-in was only available for Windows. A nice way to take the P out of PDF... Thank you for the insight. My opinion of Adobe hasn't changed. PDF files are a pain, and they do or can have (which is what I thought) DRM restrictions. At least I know if I use open source tools to manipulate the files, I can get around some of them. As for acroread goes, it has turned into a huge package. The version in my apt-cache shows 7.0.9, which is not the newest version, and it's a whopping 22911748 bytes. I imagine that 8.0 is even bigger. While KPDF may not be as feature rich, it does the job, and weighs in at 742592 bytes, and can embed nicely into konqueror. Joe - -- Registerd Linux user #443289 at http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF9nufiXBCVWpc5J4RAkk0AJ9kn39IVNuFa8FdPqp0c9hLZ1yicACfaWcL I87Oy7aU+3G33jMECTIdPys= =/IWQ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
Joe Hart wrote: As for acroread goes, it has turned into a huge package. The version in my apt-cache shows 7.0.9, which is not the newest version, and it's a whopping 22911748 bytes. I imagine that 8.0 is even bigger. While KPDF may not be as feature rich, it does the job, and weighs in at 742592 bytes, and can embed nicely into konqueror. ... and loads at least 10 times faster... Johannes -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
Florian Kulzer wrote: It is furthermore possible to write custom plug-ins which impose additional restrictions. For example, we once got a reprint-PDF for an article that we had published in a scientific journal. This PDF required a plug-in so that it could contact the publisher's server to make sure we could only print 50 high-quality copies of the paper. Needless to say, this plug-in was only available for Windows. A nice way to take the P out of PDF... You should have complained to that journal. Their effort it just a nuisance and a pain for all their users and has practically zero benefit. For any decent office, one print-out with a pdf-printer driver (available for Windows) are all that is required to create millions of copies. Alternatively, one could use one high-quality print-out and a decent scanner. Johannes -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
Joe Hart wrote: My position comes from the fact that companies try to push their proprietary formats down our throats. PDF is a perfect example of a file type that I have disliked since I moved to Europe where the paper format is different than the US. With PDF files, one cannot change the paper format. I end up with empty space on the pages or images that are distorted. Some pdf files that I have downloaded are set for some really strange paper (brochure perhaps) that of course I don't have. There is no such problem with other files. Unfortunately, PDF has become a standard. Luckily there are gpl tools that can handle them, but I don't think you can thank adobe for that. The concept behind pdf is a different one. The aim is not to have every thing printed to the margins on different paper sizes. The concept is that the printout, including line and page breaks, should be the same no matter where the file is viewed/printed. I could send a pdf to someone across the atlantic and we could discuss about line 3 on page 5. Any format that you seem to advocate would use the paper space more efficiently, but consequently fail for that. Depending on different needs, there are advantages and disadvantages to both forms. Most people seem to prefer the advantages of pdf. Besides, the pdf format was never forced on anyone. Argueably, the M$'s .doc format was promoted and/or forced on users much more heavily. Regarding the features you require, it's also a closer match. However, it is so ill designed and so closed proprietary, that it is unusable as a standard. We should thank Adobe that --despite the limitations-- their format is usable and efficient -- both read and write on open source. I use it on a daily basis and it is efficient for my needs. Johannes -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
On Tue, Mar 13, 2007 at 11:31:29 +0100, Johannes Wiedersich wrote: Joe Hart wrote: As for acroread goes, it has turned into a huge package. The version in my apt-cache shows 7.0.9, which is not the newest version, and it's a whopping 22911748 bytes. I imagine that 8.0 is even bigger. While KPDF may not be as feature rich, it does the job, and weighs in at 742592 bytes, and can embed nicely into konqueror. ... and loads at least 10 times faster... ... and it gets better and faster all the time (as does evince). I am still stuck with Adobe Reader for beamer presentations because the rendering of images and mathematical formulas is not quite good enough yet with KPDF/evince, but I am very optimistic that I can ditch Adobe within 6-12 months if the free PDF viewers maintain their rate of improvement. -- Regards, Florian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 02:33:04 -0500 Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Ron, Since you know so much about PDF files, let me ask you another question. Does PDF have DRM capabilities built in? They can be password encrypted. Don't know about anything else. Printing can be disabled, too. At least, I have one .PDF here that, when loaded in Acroread, the print icon, and menu item, are both ghosted. However, the same document is printable in KPDF. -- Regards _ / ) The blindingly obvious is / _)radnever immediately apparent Never much liked playing there anyway Banned From The Roxy - Crass signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Bug in acroread?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Johannes Wiedersich wrote: The concept behind pdf is a different one. The aim is not to have every thing printed to the margins on different paper sizes. The concept is that the printout, including line and page breaks, should be the same no matter where the file is viewed/printed. I could send a pdf to someone across the atlantic and we could discuss about line 3 on page 5. Any format that you seem to advocate would use the paper space more efficiently, but consequently fail for that. I agree, that is beneficial. It keeps table of contents and indexes accurate, which if the page breaks change would not. Depending on different needs, there are advantages and disadvantages to both forms. Most people seem to prefer the advantages of pdf. Besides, the pdf format was never forced on anyone. Argueably, the M$'s .doc format was promoted and/or forced on users much more heavily. Regarding the features you require, it's also a closer match. However, it is so ill designed and so closed proprietary, that it is unusable as a standard. I disagree about it being forced on us. Many documents on the web are PDF format. Most hardware comes without manuals and the documents are pdf files. We should thank Adobe that --despite the limitations-- their format is usable and efficient -- both read and write on open source. I use it on a daily basis and it is efficient for my needs. Can you point me to a link where I can get the source for PDF? The DRM information and all? IMO, Arcoread is just a marketing tool for Adobe so that people will buy Acrobat. Very similar to Wordpad (until recently) being able to read .doc files but not create them. Wordpad free, Word not. Is postscript so bad that everyone needs pdf? No. The fact that PDF files are hard to edit is what makes them so popular in the business world. Joe - -- Registerd Linux user #443289 at http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF9pAtiXBCVWpc5J4RAm6kAKDBLS0GAMkMiIUY+LcDM7QHEV+8nQCeKZCy Wu7pAzXALu8qFs8eLvC5PRI= =HVGk -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
On Tue, Mar 13, 2007 at 12:51:09 +0100, Joe Hart wrote: [...] Can you point me to a link where I can get the source for PDF? The DRM information and all? IMO, Arcoread is just a marketing tool for Adobe so that people will buy Acrobat. Very similar to Wordpad (until recently) being able to read .doc files but not create them. Wordpad free, Word not. http://www.adobe.com/devnet/pdf/pdf_reference.html The specifications are in PDF format, of course... Is postscript so bad that everyone needs pdf? No. The fact that PDF files are hard to edit is what makes them so popular in the business world. I think it was mostly the PDF compression which made it more attractive than postscript as a format to exchange documents via the internet. -- Regards, Florian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Florian Kulzer wrote: On Tue, Mar 13, 2007 at 12:51:09 +0100, Joe Hart wrote: [...] Can you point me to a link where I can get the source for PDF? The DRM information and all? IMO, Arcoread is just a marketing tool for Adobe so that people will buy Acrobat. Very similar to Wordpad (until recently) being able to read .doc files but not create them. Wordpad free, Word not. http://www.adobe.com/devnet/pdf/pdf_reference.html The specifications are in PDF format, of course... Is postscript so bad that everyone needs pdf? No. The fact that PDF files are hard to edit is what makes them so popular in the business world. I think it was mostly the PDF compression which made it more attractive than postscript as a format to exchange documents via the internet. Thanks for the link. Loading it now. It takes a while because their server is a little slow from here and it's a 31MB file. Reading that will keep me busy for a while. Joe - -- Registerd Linux user #443289 at http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF9pjkiXBCVWpc5J4RAnYQAJ4pWIc2wbLKeEB8nQpuYy/au0IMwACePas5 5Y0wBUYuwfeoE1Pj5kt6YOU= =9tV5 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
On Tue, Mar 13, 2007 at 01:02:17PM +0100, Florian Kulzer wrote: On Tue, Mar 13, 2007 at 12:51:09 +0100, Joe Hart wrote: [...] Is postscript so bad that everyone needs pdf? No. The fact that PDF files are hard to edit is what makes them so popular in the business world. I think it was mostly the PDF compression which made it more attractive than postscript as a format to exchange documents via the internet. The compression was a small part of it. A much larger part of the advantage of PDF is that while PostScript is a full, Turing-complete programming language with functions for filesystem access and the like in addition to page definition functions, PDF is just a page definition language. This limits various security issues in documents, including malicious code causing security breaches (imagine a PS file that, when viewed, reads /etc/passwd and appends it to itself with the current IP address so that it eventually gets back to the sender as it gets passed around) and DoS attacks (all it takes is an infinite loop). It also makes writing an interpreter for the format significantly simpler. (It may also make rendering faster; for example, the same JPEG compression PDF uses can be implemented with PS code, but it will execute faster if it is implemented as part of the interpreter itself.) (By the way, I don't mean to suggest that being a Turing-complete language makes PostScript bad in some way, just not as suitable for passing documents around. PS is a fun language and I recommend learning it. It's stack-based, which makes working with it a useful exercise in thinking in unfamiliar ways. You can get around some of it by setting variables, but the requirement for dictionaries with explicitly declared sizes makes it both more efficient and more entertaining to learn to use the stack well.) Regards, Florian --Greg -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 11:23:27 +0100 Joe Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] As for acroread goes, it has turned into a huge package. The version in my apt-cache shows 7.0.9, which is not the newest version, and it's a whopping 22911748 bytes. I imagine that 8.0 is even bigger. While KPDF may not be as feature rich, it does the job, and weighs in at 742592 bytes, and can embed nicely into konqueror. Don't forget that kpdf is based on xpdf (which is what I use). Celejar -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
Gregory Seidman writes: ...PDF is just a page definition language. It was. They keep adding to it... -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Celejar wrote: On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 11:23:27 +0100 Joe Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] As for acroread goes, it has turned into a huge package. The version in my apt-cache shows 7.0.9, which is not the newest version, and it's a whopping 22911748 bytes. I imagine that 8.0 is even bigger. While KPDF may not be as feature rich, it does the job, and weighs in at 742592 bytes, and can embed nicely into konqueror. Don't forget that kpdf is based on xpdf (which is what I use). Ah the hidden dependencies. xpdf is a dummy package, that pulls in xpdf-reader and xpdf-utils and xpdf-common. Adding those up comes quite close to what acroread uses, so I guess my comparison is pretty useless. I guess it is almost like comparing different types of apples. The one thing to remember though is that all of the above mentioned files are open source except for acroread. For people that are dfsg purists, they would balk at the idea of installing it. Personally, I have no problem with proprietary software, if there is no viable alternative. For example, I use the nvidia (9755) drivers because the open source version is pitifully slow on this system, and it can't support beryl. Joe - -- Registerd Linux user #443289 at http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF9so5iXBCVWpc5J4RAn4kAKCouZbiLH9xEt+nxhpLuOlV9sjH2QCcCRaQ Z7Nrxcd2oi/ef5KeMggo0uU= =T1+m -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, all, I doubt that this is specific to debian, but has anyone noticed this bug in acroread? I've noticed that if I print pages in reverse, I can't print in the forward direction until I quit the program and restart it. All this debate going in this thread, led me to examine the acroread package. It says, Bugs: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] perhaps that will help. Joe - -- Registerd Linux user #443289 at http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF9s+7iXBCVWpc5J4RAjz3AKDMbsXgeyM4SoGI9SFQLo6Z7FbDBwCgyP4h if+yt6f09PiX+W0LOdxZiSg= =Qcoe -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
Joe Hart wrote: Is postscript so bad that everyone needs pdf? No. The fact that PDF files are hard to edit is what makes them so popular in the business world. pdf files are searchable. I cannot figure out how to search a .ps file under gv. The search functionality is tremendously useful when reading a 300 page book on the computer. This is the main reason I prefer pdf to ps. This is the reason I sometimes go back to acroread from kpdf (kpdf's search functionalities are not as great as acroread). raju -- Kamaraju S Kusumanchi http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/ http://malayamaarutham.blogspot.com/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
Joe Hart wrote:
[snip]
I disagree about it being forced on us. Many documents on the web are
PDF format. Most hardware comes without manuals and the documents are
pdf files.
You have an odd definition for the word force.
We should thank Adobe that --despite the limitations-- their format is
usable and efficient -- both read and write on open source. I use it on
a daily basis and it is efficient for my needs.
Can you point me to a link where I can get the source for PDF? The DRM
information and all? IMO, Arcoread is just a marketing tool for Adobe
so that people will buy Acrobat. Very similar to Wordpad (until
recently) being able to read .doc files but not create them. Wordpad
free, Word not.
That's about it.
Is postscript so bad that everyone needs pdf? No. The fact that PDF
files are hard to edit is what makes them so popular in the business world.
PostXcript and PDF are orthogonal to each other. They address different
challenges. TeX and PDF are more competitive in the kinds of things
they do. PostScript is a page formatting system, suitable for printer
control, not a document format.
Mike
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Re: Bug in acroread?
Ron Johnson wrote: On 03/13/07 01:16, Joe Hart wrote: [snip] Since you know so much about PDF files, let me ask you another question. Does PDF have DRM capabilities built in? They can be password encrypted. Don't know about anything else. Arguably the worst feature, however, may be the ability to 'phone home' and tell the creator of the pdf when, were and by whom the document is read/printed or what else... /= $ aptitude show acroread-plugins Package: acroread-plugins New: yes State: not installed Version: 7.0.9-0.1 Priority: optional Section: text Maintainer: Christian Marillat [EMAIL PROTECTED] Uncompressed Size: 52.0M Depends: acroread (= 7.0.9-0.1), acroread-escript Conflicts: acroread-plugin Replaces: acroread (= 7.0-0.0), acroread-plugin Description: Plugins for Adobe Acrobat(R) Reader Adobe Acrobat Reader for viewing and printing Adobe Portable Document Format (PDF) files. This package contains plugins who enable javascript in acroread and thus make acroread able to send to a remote host which pdf files you are reading. See http://lwn.net/Articles/129729/ \= Debian is the one distribution I know, where Christian Marillat splits the acroread package from adobe into two separate packages, so that users who don't require the spyware just don't install it. (If for some reason they can't or don't want to use the free alternatives.) Johannes -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mike McCarty wrote: Joe Hart wrote: [snip] context Noone is forcing you to use pdf files /context I disagree about it being forced on us. Many documents on the web are PDF format. Most hardware comes without manuals and the documents are pdf files. You have an odd definition for the word force. If I want to read the manual I have to have a way to view pdf files, thus that is force by my definition. Perhaps not in the true since of the word since to don't _have_ to read manuals, it's just that I am one of the type of people who do. I RTFM and STFW so I don't ask stupid questions. I wish more people did. snip Is postscript so bad that everyone needs pdf? No. The fact that PDF files are hard to edit is what makes them so popular in the business world. PostXcript and PDF are orthogonal to each other. They address different challenges. TeX and PDF are more competitive in the kinds of things they do. PostScript is a page formatting system, suitable for printer control, not a document format. Agreed, but the debian documentation is available .ps and I can print to a .ps file, so I consider it a document format. PDF is also page formatting system, although AFAIK, both formats are capable of using code. Joe -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF9u/NiXBCVWpc5J4RAoFBAJ9ffZMVW3mmCxpr9u1XHecYqIAPlQCeLAVF le29SaOilcB/HVfa/eHKIR8= =PouN -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
On Tue, Mar 13, 2007 at 07:39:09PM +0100, Joe Hart wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mike McCarty wrote: Joe Hart wrote: [snip] context Noone is forcing you to use pdf files /context I disagree about it being forced on us. Many documents on the web are PDF format. Most hardware comes without manuals and the documents are pdf files. You have an odd definition for the word force. If I want to read the manual I have to have a way to view pdf files, thus that is force by my definition. Perhaps not in the true since of the word since to don't _have_ to read manuals, it's just that I am one of the type of people who do. I RTFM and STFW so I don't ask stupid questions. I wish more people did. For documents on the web I have this inelegant and heinous trick: I google for them. If a doc is in PDF format, Google will give you the option to view it as HTML. The converted version is not always pretty, but more often than not sufficient to get the information I need. Obviously doesn't work all the time, but it has helped me out occasionally. $0.02, --j signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug in acroread?
On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 16:12:39 -0400 Juergen Fiedler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] For documents on the web I have this inelegant and heinous trick: I google for them. If a doc is in PDF format, Google will give you the option to view it as HTML. The converted version is not always pretty, but more often than not sufficient to get the information I need. Obviously doesn't work all the time, but it has helped me out occasionally. Why not just use a software pdf to text / html / whatever converter, such as pdftotext (in xpdf-utils)? Celejar -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Celejar wrote: On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 16:12:39 -0400 Juergen Fiedler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] For documents on the web I have this inelegant and heinous trick: I google for them. If a doc is in PDF format, Google will give you the option to view it as HTML. The converted version is not always pretty, but more often than not sufficient to get the information I need. Obviously doesn't work all the time, but it has helped me out occasionally. Why not just use a software pdf to text / html / whatever converter, such as pdftotext (in xpdf-utils)? Another thing to do is import a pdf into kword. It doesn't always produce a readable document, but if it does, you can edit it. Joe -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF9xNyiXBCVWpc5J4RAgfZAKCgAy8cB7jPJMyAJqztoHTqMthXDwCghCd7 px7QgTDUDub5cDML02OxbI0= =qyk7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
Joe Hart wrote:
Amazing. OT threads covering abortion, religion, politics etc. ad
nauseum persist for weeks with hardly a complaint, and this guy asks a
question which is actually more or less on topic, and he gets chastized.
In answer, I have not noticed that. Normally, if I select reverse
I just gave it a try, and I found that the flag cannot be turned
off once selected. The check goes away, but the printing is
still in reverse. The next time printing is requested, the check
is back. This may be an interaction with the code which prevents
reverse printing when selecting the even pages only, so two-pass
double-sided printing works properly.
order print, then I want it to stay that way, and have not as a
consequence had that problem. I'm doing some stuff which precludes
trying a test right now, but when I've got some time I'll give it
a try.
Mike
Chastised? No not at all. It is just that we cannot help with
proprietary software because we can't see the code to fix it.
His question related to whether it might be peculiar to him,
or whether it was related to Acroread for Linux. That is certainly a
reasonable question. If he is the only one it happens to, then that is
information which will help the Adobe people.
I asked him to try open source software that can be debugged. Barring
doing that, take his problem to the vendor.
Perhaps my wording was a bit harsh. Sometimes I do that. I apologize
if I offended anyone.
I'm not offended. OTOH, if you find this one little post to be
OT enough to warrant a comment, then why aren't you shouting down
the other abusers here who rant on and on about abortion, politics,
religion, etc.?
Mike
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Re: Bug in acroread?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mike McCarty wrote: Amazing. OT threads covering abortion, religion, politics etc. ad nauseum persist for weeks with hardly a complaint, and this guy asks a question which is actually more or less on topic, and he gets chastized. snip I asked him to try open source software that can be debugged. Barring doing that, take his problem to the vendor. Perhaps my wording was a bit harsh. Sometimes I do that. I apologize if I offended anyone. I'm not offended. OTOH, if you find this one little post to be OT enough to warrant a comment, then why aren't you shouting down the other abusers here who rant on and on about abortion, politics, religion, etc.? I never said it was off topic. I agree that there has been too much off topic discussion lately, although it is entertaining. It seems to have died down a bit over the weekend. My position comes from the fact that companies try to push their proprietary formats down our throats. PDF is a perfect example of a file type that I have disliked since I moved to Europe where the paper format is different than the US. With PDF files, one cannot change the paper format. I end up with empty space on the pages or images that are distorted. Some pdf files that I have downloaded are set for some really strange paper (brochure perhaps) that of course I don't have. There is no such problem with other files. Unfortunately, PDF has become a standard. Luckily there are gpl tools that can handle them, but I don't think you can thank adobe for that. Joe - -- Registerd Linux user #443289 at http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF9ZwViXBCVWpc5J4RAknRAJ9IRH8BOEk/OFwKfCttD1iw9mwahgCcCZGH gFlbbqoOKIzMNyhfRXFz17w= =ongz -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
Joe Hart wrote:
My position comes from the fact that companies try to push their
proprietary formats down our throats. PDF is a perfect example of a
file type that I have disliked since I moved to Europe where the paper
format is different than the US. With PDF files, one cannot change the
paper format. I end up with empty space on the pages or images that are
distorted. Some pdf files that I have downloaded are set for some
really strange paper (brochure perhaps) that of course I don't have.
This is a limitation of the tools, not the file format.
There is no such problem with other files. Unfortunately, PDF has
become a standard. Luckily there are gpl tools that can handle them,
but I don't think you can thank adobe for that.
Yes, you can. The format is proprietary, but published, and they
don't charge licensing fees, unlike GIF, for example.
Mike
--
p=p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);};main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
This message made from 100% recycled bits.
You have found the bank of Larn.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!
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Re: Bug in acroread?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mike McCarty wrote: Joe Hart wrote: My position comes from the fact that companies try to push their proprietary formats down our throats. PDF is a perfect example of a file type that I have disliked since I moved to Europe where the paper format is different than the US. With PDF files, one cannot change the paper format. I end up with empty space on the pages or images that are distorted. Some pdf files that I have downloaded are set for some really strange paper (brochure perhaps) that of course I don't have. This is a limitation of the tools, not the file format. There is no such problem with other files. Unfortunately, PDF has become a standard. Luckily there are gpl tools that can handle them, but I don't think you can thank adobe for that. Yes, you can. The format is proprietary, but published, and they don't charge licensing fees, unlike GIF, for example. Mike Hmm, perhaps my prejudice against Adobe is mistaken. If the format is open, unlike some other formats for documents, then it will just be a matter of time before someone creates a tool that does what I want. Perhaps if nobody is willing to take up the task, then I myself will start such a project. Of course, that would be fr down my to-do list. Since you know so much about PDF files, let me ask you another question. Does PDF have DRM capabilities built in? Joe - -- Registerd Linux user #443289 at http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF9kGniXBCVWpc5J4RAuB+AJ9hZSf2MbYgAalhoAVYS9s77Vd7zgCgjMc2 ELZSZZ4oaac4jNxUEqBvofk= =FI1B -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
Joe Hart wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Mike McCarty wrote:
[snip]
This is a limitation of the tools, not the file format.
There is no such problem with other files. Unfortunately, PDF has
become a standard. Luckily there are gpl tools that can handle them,
but I don't think you can thank adobe for that.
Yes, you can. The format is proprietary, but published, and they
don't charge licensing fees, unlike GIF, for example.
Mike
Hmm, perhaps my prejudice against Adobe is mistaken. If the format is
open, unlike some other formats for documents, then it will just be a
matter of time before someone creates a tool that does what I want.
Perhaps if nobody is willing to take up the task, then I myself will
start such a project. Of course, that would be fr down my to-do list.
Since you know so much about PDF files, let me ask you another question.
Does PDF have DRM capabilities built in?
That I don't know. However, I don't want to overstate the case.
PDF has page layout in it. It is not something which allows one
to reformat the pages, at least not easily. So, while one could
easily write a program to print letter pages on A4 without
lots of white space, the pages would not fall on the physical
page boundaries. It's not like TeX, for example.
Mike
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p=p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);};main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
This message made from 100% recycled bits.
You have found the bank of Larn.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!
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Re: Bug in acroread?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I doubt that this is specific to debian, but has anyone noticed this bug in acroread? I've noticed that if I print pages in reverse, I can't print in the forward direction until I quit the program and restart it. What happens when you use ghostview to print the same pdf? Or KPDF if you use KDE? Those are _supported_ pdf viewers, while acroread is proprietary. Perhaps you should take this up with Adobe, since they are the only ones that can fix it. - -- Registerd Linux user #443289 at http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF8cT4iXBCVWpc5J4RAmHbAJkBojqQ1KtwwlFA6vs9584ZBwF+fACgj3bC 0zqYo+oaIs1+lIJuMOvvP+M= =ujJJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug in acroread?
Joe Hart wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I doubt that this is specific to debian, but has anyone noticed
this bug in acroread? I've noticed that if I print pages in reverse, I
can't print in the forward direction until I quit the program and
restart it.
What happens when you use ghostview to print the same pdf? Or KPDF if
you use KDE? Those are _supported_ pdf viewers, while acroread is
proprietary.
Perhaps you should take this up with Adobe, since they are the only ones
that can fix it.
Amazing. OT threads covering abortion, religion, politics etc. ad
nauseum persist for weeks with hardly a complaint, and this guy asks a
question which is actually more or less on topic, and he gets chastized.
In answer, I have not noticed that. Normally, if I select reverse
order print, then I want it to stay that way, and have not as a
consequence had that problem. I'm doing some stuff which precludes
trying a test right now, but when I've got some time I'll give it
a try.
Mike
--
p=p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);};main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
This message made from 100% recycled bits.
You have found the bank of Larn.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!
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Re: Bug in acroread?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mike McCarty wrote: Joe Hart wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I doubt that this is specific to debian, but has anyone noticed this bug in acroread? I've noticed that if I print pages in reverse, I can't print in the forward direction until I quit the program and restart it. What happens when you use ghostview to print the same pdf? Or KPDF if you use KDE? Those are _supported_ pdf viewers, while acroread is proprietary. Perhaps you should take this up with Adobe, since they are the only ones that can fix it. Amazing. OT threads covering abortion, religion, politics etc. ad nauseum persist for weeks with hardly a complaint, and this guy asks a question which is actually more or less on topic, and he gets chastized. In answer, I have not noticed that. Normally, if I select reverse order print, then I want it to stay that way, and have not as a consequence had that problem. I'm doing some stuff which precludes trying a test right now, but when I've got some time I'll give it a try. Mike Chastised? No not at all. It is just that we cannot help with proprietary software because we can't see the code to fix it. I asked him to try open source software that can be debugged. Barring doing that, take his problem to the vendor. Perhaps my wording was a bit harsh. Sometimes I do that. I apologize if I offended anyone. Joe - -- Registerd Linux user #443289 at http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF8l/OiXBCVWpc5J4RArN7AKCeF9inbOjeAfUq0veJj4R/u+RNBQCgm/iG wNgZQ3eM/x0iHYaeWFgxz+s= =d5B0 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
