Re: Creating MP3 for portable players
> I'm told that the information squeezed out by ogg is not audible to humans. > And that the information squeezed out by mp3 compression is different, and > not audible to humans. > But when you ogg an mp3, you get both squeezed out, and the result *is* > audible. > > But I haven't tried it out, and I'm part deaf so my personal experience > wouldn't mean much anyway. This is true. The fact is that both formats are lossy to a computer, but not a priori audibly lossy to humans, and more: the encoders need not be coherent. I mean, It would not be strange if you take and mp3-encoded sound, decode it, and re-encode it to mp3 *again*, and it sounded worse. I've been told that this worsening of the signal happens to ac3 (MD) encoding just after a lot of re-encodings... Like 30!... Of course if you use the same encoder, this is less likely to happen. Different mp3 encoders may have this effect strongly... mp3 to ogg would be even worse, and then you go. But I doubt that anyone would hear the effects on a bad amplifier system like the ones from pocket MP3-player. And more: It wold not matter if you're deconding ogg and recoding to mp3 when you're lowering the bitrate anyway, so you can fit more musics in you player. Anyway, test it and be happy. I'm just showing off because I'm an electrical engineer :) And at last: personal experience is everything that really matters on this subject!... -- Nicolau Werneck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 9F99 25AB E47E 8724 2F71 http://cefala.org/~nwerneck EA40 DC23 42CE 6B76 B07F "The great end of life is not knowledge but action." -- Thomas Huxley -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Creating MP3 for portable players]
On Mon, Jun 21, 2004 at 07:34:29PM +0100, Keith O'Connell wrote: > OK, Thanks for that. I have downloaded a copy of lame, unless I am wrong > this is a command line utility to convert wav to mp3. > > I plan to write a script to take a batch of selected ogg tracks, use sox > to convert ogg to wav, then pipe that into lame to convert the wav to mp3. > > Is this sensible plan or am I making too big a job out of this? Well, I just use mp3c to directly encode CD tracks to either OGG or MP3. -- Carl Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabootu's Minister of Proofreading http://www.jabootu.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Creating MP3 for portable players]
* Keith O'Connell ([EMAIL PROTECTED])[20040621 11:34]: > I plan to write a script to take a batch of selected ogg tracks, use sox > to convert ogg to wav, then pipe that into lame to convert the wav to mp3. > > Is this sensible plan or am I making too big a job out of this? It sounds sensible logistically, as long as you are aware of the quality degradation you will find in lossy-to-lossy transcoded audio files. Realistically, you'll probably find that they're good enough for portable use (cheap headphones in noisy environments such as gym treadmill, etc.). If quality is a concern, you're better off re-ripping from the original source (CDs). There's a script called jack which makes this process pretty painless (ripping, encoding, CDDB query, and renaming). Configure that and it's as easy as dropping in a CD, "jack; eject", go do something else, and repeat when you hear the drive tray open. While we're on the subject of portables, let me plug the birthday present my wife got for me last month: the Rio Karma. It's a 20GB hard drive player and plays ogg vorbis and flac. It even comes with a dock with an ethernet jack; the player runs a little mini-webserver that serves up a java version of the "rio music manager". That it's not a straight usb mass-storage device is a drawback, but ogg and flac support far outweigh that for me. I highly recommend it for anyone seeking a portable music player. I know Iriver makes ogg players as well, and I haven't seriously used one to give it a fair comparison vs the Karma. The Karma is great though: good one-handed (either hand) operation with a jog-dial control, and did I mention it plays ogg and flac? =p good times, Vineet pgp6svxv13mEC.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Creating MP3 for portable players]
John Smith wrote: Search at http://www.rarewares.org for a debian package called 'lame'. Had the same problem. It isn't included in debian.org because of copyright isues. OK, Thanks for that. I have downloaded a copy of lame, unless I am wrong this is a command line utility to convert wav to mp3. I plan to write a script to take a batch of selected ogg tracks, use sox to convert ogg to wav, then pipe that into lame to convert the wav to mp3. Is this sensible plan or am I making too big a job out of this? Keith -- _ Keith O'Connell. Maidstone, Kent. (UK) [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Creating MP3 for portable players
On Mon, Jun 21, 2004 at 03:28:40PM +0200, Jacques wrote: > Keith O'Connell wrote: > >Hi, > > > >I have be badgered by my wife and daughter to learn how to pull tracks > >off their CD's into a format to play on their MP3 players, so I have > >been teaching myself over the weekend. > > > >I can pull from CD to Ogg on my machine and I can put tracks onto CD-R > >all very happily. The problem I have hit, and it must have been hit many > >times is the one of formats. > > > >We each have one of the following, that play the formats as shown; > > > > Palm T3 (realplayer)mp3rmrmj > > iRiver player mp3wma asf > > Creative Rhomba mp3wma > > > >I have been up and down the listings in Aptitude, and I cannot find out > >how to stay within Debian and (i) rip to mp3, or better still (ii) > >convert ogg to mp3 for the players > > > >Is this a licensing thing? How do list members get files suitable for > >portable players that don't play ogg? > > > >Keith > > http://www.ibiblio.org/tkan/xmcd/ > > pick up the software, and also the lame mp3 encoder. That's what I use > to rip cds directly to mp3. Also supports flac and ogg. This software is > a cd reader and ripper. Very good GPL software. > > ogg is a free yet more powerful compression algorithm for music. ogg is > therefore better than mp3 and produces smaller files. The pb is that > there are not so much players which can use this format. I've heard that > it is beginning to be supported. I do hope all players will be able to > read ogg, so that we don't have to bother with mp3 anymore. > I'm told that the information squeezed out by ogg is not audible to humans. And that the information squeezed out by mp3 compression is different, and not audible to humans. But when you ogg an mp3, you get both squeezed out, and the result *is* audible. But I haven't tried it out, and I'm part deaf so my personal experience wouldn't mean much anyway. -- hendrik. > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Creating MP3 for portable players
On Mon, Jun 21, 2004 at 09:28:44AM -0500, Jacob S. wrote: > On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 16:11:38 +0200 > David Fokkema <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Mon, Jun 21, 2004 at 08:40:21AM -0500, Jacob S. wrote: > > > On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 15:28:34 +0200 > > > David Fokkema <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Actually, the url for Marillat's packages changed several months > > > ago, as his service was getting too popular and using too much > > > bandwidth. I use the following line in/etc/apt/sources.list now. > > > > Indeed! I get a 503 now. How long has this been? I update regularly > > and would swear that this 503 has only been there for a few days at > > most since I've never noticed it before. > > Well, as long as I've known you could still get to the webpage at > marillat.free.fr for news updates, but I'm getting the same 503 over > there. I suspect the webhost is having problems. > > However, according to > ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat/index.html which mirrors the news > page at marillat.free.fr, the repository move was announced Jan. 9th, > when it moved to hpisi.nerim.net, then again on the 14th of Jan. it > changed to it's current location. So many months ago? > I started getting errors when trying to do an apt-get update shortly > after the Jan. 9th announcement. There was a big thread about it on this > list when it happened. I vaguely remember that one. I looked it up, and I never read through it. It started to work for me again and has for the past months, I'm pretty certain. Very strange. Just to be on the safe side, I'll keep my sources pointing at the new location. > > > deb ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat/ stable main > > > > > > (Note that I track stable. You can modify the line to track testing > > > or unstable, as well.) > > > > Done! Thanks! > > Any time! :-) David -- Hi! I'm a .signature virus. Copy me into your ~/.signature to help me spread! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Creating MP3 for portable players
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 14:09:09 +0100 Keith O'Connell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I have been up and down the listings in Aptitude, and I cannot find out > how to stay within Debian and (i) rip to mp3, or better still (ii) > convert ogg to mp3 for the players > > Is this a licensing thing? Yes. Strictly speaking, mp3 is a patented format. In order to implement mp3 encoding, you're supposed to license the patent from the Fraunhofer Institute. That keeps Debian away. > How do list members get files suitable for > portable players that don't play ogg? Usually by using one of the mp3 encoding engines for linux available out there. Since the people who make them have not licensed the patent, their work infringes on it; so they're of questionable legality. That also keeps Debian away. -c -- Chris Metzler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (remove "snip-me." to email) "As a child I understood how to give; I have forgotten this grace since I have become civilized." - Chief Luther Standing Bear pgp3KYUqDTS5u.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Creating MP3 for portable players
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 16:11:38 +0200 David Fokkema <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, Jun 21, 2004 at 08:40:21AM -0500, Jacob S. wrote: > > On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 15:28:34 +0200 > > David Fokkema <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Actually, the url for Marillat's packages changed several months > > ago, as his service was getting too popular and using too much > > bandwidth. I use the following line in/etc/apt/sources.list now. > > Indeed! I get a 503 now. How long has this been? I update regularly > and would swear that this 503 has only been there for a few days at > most since I've never noticed it before. Well, as long as I've known you could still get to the webpage at marillat.free.fr for news updates, but I'm getting the same 503 over there. I suspect the webhost is having problems. However, according to ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat/index.html which mirrors the news page at marillat.free.fr, the repository move was announced Jan. 9th, when it moved to hpisi.nerim.net, then again on the 14th of Jan. it changed to it's current location. I started getting errors when trying to do an apt-get update shortly after the Jan. 9th announcement. There was a big thread about it on this list when it happened. > > deb ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat/ stable main > > > > (Note that I track stable. You can modify the line to track testing > > or unstable, as well.) > > Done! Thanks! Any time! Jacob -- GnuPG Key: 1024D/16377135 Random .signature #5: Linux. Where do you want to go tomorrow? pgprXRwI47N2t.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Creating MP3 for portable players
On Mon, Jun 21, 2004 at 08:40:21AM -0500, Jacob S. wrote: > On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 15:28:34 +0200 > David Fokkema <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Mon, Jun 21, 2004 at 02:09:09PM +0100, Keith O'Connell wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > I have be badgered by my wife and daughter to learn how to pull > > > tracks off their CD's into a format to play on their MP3 players, so > > > I have been teaching myself over the weekend. > > > > > > I can pull from CD to Ogg on my machine and I can put tracks onto > > > CD-R all very happily. The problem I have hit, and it must have been > > > hit many times is the one of formats. > > > > > > We each have one of the following, that play the formats as shown; > > > > > > Palm T3 (realplayer) mp3 rmrmj > > > iRiver playermp3 wma asf > > > Creative Rhomba mp3 wma > > > > > > I have been up and down the listings in Aptitude, and I cannot find > > > out how to stay within Debian and (i) rip to mp3, or better still > > > (ii) convert ogg to mp3 for the players > > > > > > Is this a licensing thing? How do list members get files suitable > > > for portable players that don't play ogg? > > > > I don't rip to mp3 anymore since I don't have an mp3 player and ogg is > > better, :-). But I used to use LAME (Lame Ain't an Mp3 Encoder) which > > is quite good. It is available from Christian Marillat. Just add > > > > deb http://marillat.free.fr/ unstable main > > > > to your apt sources. > > Actually, the url for Marillat's packages changed several months ago, > as his service was getting too popular and using too much bandwidth. I > use the following line in/etc/apt/sources.list now. Indeed! I get a 503 now. How long has this been? I update regularly and would swear that this 503 has only been there for a few days at most since I've never noticed it before. > deb ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat/ stable main > > (Note that I track stable. You can modify the line to track testing or > unstable, as well.) Done! Thanks! David -- Hi! I'm a .signature virus. Copy me into your ~/.signature to help me spread! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Creating MP3 for portable players
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 15:28:40 +0200, Jacques writes: >http://www.ibiblio.org/tkan/xmcd/ > >pick up the software, and also the lame mp3 encoder. That's what I use >to rip cds directly to mp3. Also supports flac and ogg. This software is > a cd reader and ripper. Very good GPL software. You might also want to consider using gogo, which is based on lame. From the freshmeat page: "GOGO is a patch against LAME which makes it encode about twice as quickly while maintaining the same quality. It makes use of MMX, 3D Now!, and SSE if your system supports these instructions." I don't think it has been debianized, though. But what good is a system without stuff in /usr/local/ anyway ;) cheers, &rw -- / Ing. Robert Waldner | Security Engineer | CoreTec IT-Security \ \ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | T +43 1 503 72 73 | F +43 1 503 72 73 x99 / pgp1ucFz58wIr.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Creating MP3 for portable players
Keith O'Connell wrote: Hi, I have be badgered by my wife and daughter to learn how to pull tracks off their CD's into a format to play on their MP3 players, so I have been teaching myself over the weekend. I can pull from CD to Ogg on my machine and I can put tracks onto CD-R all very happily. The problem I have hit, and it must have been hit many times is the one of formats. We each have one of the following, that play the formats as shown; Palm T3 (realplayer)mp3rmrmj iRiver player mp3wma asf Creative Rhomba mp3wma I have been up and down the listings in Aptitude, and I cannot find out how to stay within Debian and (i) rip to mp3, or better still (ii) convert ogg to mp3 for the players Is this a licensing thing? How do list members get files suitable for portable players that don't play ogg? Keith http://www.ibiblio.org/tkan/xmcd/ pick up the software, and also the lame mp3 encoder. That's what I use to rip cds directly to mp3. Also supports flac and ogg. This software is a cd reader and ripper. Very good GPL software. ogg is a free yet more powerful compression algorithm for music. ogg is therefore better than mp3 and produces smaller files. The pb is that there are not so much players which can use this format. I've heard that it is beginning to be supported. I do hope all players will be able to read ogg, so that we don't have to bother with mp3 anymore. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Creating MP3 for portable players
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 15:28:34 +0200 David Fokkema <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, Jun 21, 2004 at 02:09:09PM +0100, Keith O'Connell wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I have be badgered by my wife and daughter to learn how to pull > > tracks off their CD's into a format to play on their MP3 players, so > > I have been teaching myself over the weekend. > > > > I can pull from CD to Ogg on my machine and I can put tracks onto > > CD-R all very happily. The problem I have hit, and it must have been > > hit many times is the one of formats. > > > > We each have one of the following, that play the formats as shown; > > > > Palm T3 (realplayer) mp3 rmrmj > > iRiver player mp3 wma asf > > Creative Rhombamp3 wma > > > > I have been up and down the listings in Aptitude, and I cannot find > > out how to stay within Debian and (i) rip to mp3, or better still > > (ii) convert ogg to mp3 for the players > > > > Is this a licensing thing? How do list members get files suitable > > for portable players that don't play ogg? > > I don't rip to mp3 anymore since I don't have an mp3 player and ogg is > better, :-). But I used to use LAME (Lame Ain't an Mp3 Encoder) which > is quite good. It is available from Christian Marillat. Just add > > deb http://marillat.free.fr/ unstable main > > to your apt sources. Actually, the url for Marillat's packages changed several months ago, as his service was getting too popular and using too much bandwidth. I use the following line in/etc/apt/sources.list now. deb ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat/ stable main (Note that I track stable. You can modify the line to track testing or unstable, as well.) HTH, Jacob -- GnuPG Key: 1024D/16377135 Random .signature #12: Linux: Because a PC is a terrible thing to waste. pgpVeAYI7Cl7f.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Creating MP3 for portable players
On Mon, Jun 21, 2004 at 02:09:09PM +0100, Keith O'Connell wrote: > Hi, > > I have be badgered by my wife and daughter to learn how to pull tracks > off their CD's into a format to play on their MP3 players, so I have > been teaching myself over the weekend. > > I can pull from CD to Ogg on my machine and I can put tracks onto CD-R > all very happily. The problem I have hit, and it must have been hit many > times is the one of formats. > > We each have one of the following, that play the formats as shown; > > Palm T3 (realplayer) mp3 rmrmj > iRiver playermp3 wma asf > Creative Rhomba mp3 wma > > I have been up and down the listings in Aptitude, and I cannot find out > how to stay within Debian and (i) rip to mp3, or better still (ii) > convert ogg to mp3 for the players > > Is this a licensing thing? How do list members get files suitable for > portable players that don't play ogg? I don't rip to mp3 anymore since I don't have an mp3 player and ogg is better, :-). But I used to use LAME (Lame Ain't an Mp3 Encoder) which is quite good. It is available from Christian Marillat. Just add deb http://marillat.free.fr/ unstable main to your apt sources. David -- Hi! I'm a .signature virus. Copy me into your ~/.signature to help me spread! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Creating MP3 for portable players
On Mon, 2004-06-21 at 15:09, Keith O'Connell wrote: > Hi, > > I have be badgered by my wife and daughter to learn how to pull tracks > off their CD's into a format to play on their MP3 players, so I have > been teaching myself over the weekend. > > I can pull from CD to Ogg on my machine and I can put tracks onto CD-R > all very happily. The problem I have hit, and it must have been hit many > times is the one of formats. > > We each have one of the following, that play the formats as shown; > > Palm T3 (realplayer)mp3 rmrmj > iRiver player mp3 wma asf > Creative Rhomba mp3 wma > > I have been up and down the listings in Aptitude, and I cannot find out > how to stay within Debian and (i) rip to mp3, or better still (ii) > convert ogg to mp3 for the players > > Is this a licensing thing? How do list members get files suitable for > portable players that don't play ogg? > > Keith > -- > _ >Keith O'Connell. >Maidstone, Kent. (UK) >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Search at http://www.rarewares.org for a debian package called 'lame'. Had the same problem. It isn't included in debian.org because of copyright isues. Sincerely, Jan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
