Re: Etch status..?
Hello Steef and *, Am 2006-12-06 20:03:12, schrieb steef: thanks michelle. your answer makes things much clearer. i understand your remarks better now. The problem is: HOW can I install Debian ON SUCH MACHINES in the future? The machines are 333 to 450 MHz and I can not say, they are outdated. Oh, - before I forget, the -486 do not boot too. It is realy annoying to create for such machines my own DI. Note: I have gotten over 2000 Mainboards including CPU and 512 MB of memory for Free and like to use it in older machines (P1), since the Mainboards are AT and not ATX which will save many peoples very much money. Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature
Re: Etch status..?
Michelle Konzack wrote: Am 2006-11-26 11:45:02, schrieb steef: i do not understand. what is the problem?? quote: *SMP images merged with non-SMP*. After the release of linux-image-2.6.17-2 the SMP and non-smp images where integrated into ^^^ only one image. After this you will no longer find images like ^^ linux-image-2.6.16-2-686-smp and linux-image-2.6.16-2-686 but only one image that will detect at run time the presence of a SMP system and enable or disable the SMP code: There are many machines which refuse to boot with such kernel. Even the Sarge/Etch Netinstall-CD refuse to boot. I had to create my own SMP-free Install-CD which was nor realy funny. Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant thanks michelle. your answer makes things much clearer. i understand your remarks better now. regards, steef -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Etch status..?
Douglas Tutty wrote: On Fri, Dec 01, 2006 at 12:50:58AM -0500, cga2000 wrote: Sounds like I'll have to start over and stick to one or the other. No, just start using aptitude, stop using apt-get, and go manually through the list of packages from within aptitude, determine if they're ones you want, they depend on packages installed, or they're cruft. The big difference with aptitude is that it remembers which packages you explicitly requested. And it cleans up packages that are no longer needed bases on this knowledge. So if you installed something without aptitude it may decide that it's not needed any more and decide to delete it. Therefore, use apritude interactively and *always* look through the packages it proposes to delete. If you want one of them, it's very easy to stop the deletion -- just explicitly requset it! Otherwise, aptitude uses the same underlying package management tools as apt-get. Guess I'll have to learn that aptitude full-screen interface. root's bash history tells me that this is what I did after a sarge netinst where I manually requested that no packages be installed on top of the base system: 1. apt-get update ; apt-get upgrade 2. edit /etc/apt/sources.list to point to testing 4. apt-get dist-upgrade 5. aptitude install screen less xserver-xorg xfonts-base wmaker conky xterm elinks cdrecord vim .. Is there a risk that at some point aptitude will mess up what I did in steps 2 and 4 .. ?? Don't know. I try not to try to break things. Just learn how to use the aptitude UI and get it set up then it won't mess anything up and will try to keep you from messing anything up either. Doug. You could use the Aptitude CLI to unmark automatically installed packages before you upgrade/install # aptitude unmarkauto --schedule-only '~i' (see /usr/share/doc/aptitude/html/en/ch02s03.html in the aptitude-doc-en package for more about search patterns). This should stop Aptitude removing vital packages that it thinks were installed automatically but may have been installed in their own right by apt-get or Synaptic. You can use switches to install without recommends -R, --without-recommends and fix dependencies -f Aptitude will warn you about packages that it proposes to remove during install. Check this list before proceeding. Hope that helps. You may find this thread helpful too: http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2006/05/msg01734.html -- Chris. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Etch status..?
Am 2006-11-26 11:45:02, schrieb steef: i do not understand. what is the problem?? quote: *SMP images merged with non-SMP*. After the release of linux-image-2.6.17-2 the SMP and non-smp images where integrated into ^^^ only one image. After this you will no longer find images like ^^ linux-image-2.6.16-2-686-smp and linux-image-2.6.16-2-686 but only one image that will detect at run time the presence of a SMP system and enable or disable the SMP code: There are many machines which refuse to boot with such kernel. Even the Sarge/Etch Netinstall-CD refuse to boot. I had to create my own SMP-free Install-CD which was nor realy funny. Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature
Re: Etch status..?
On Fri, Dec 01, 2006 at 12:50:58AM -0500, cga2000 wrote: Sounds like I'll have to start over and stick to one or the other. No, just start using aptitude, stop using apt-get, and go manually through the list of packages from within aptitude, determine if they're ones you want, they depend on packages installed, or they're cruft. The big difference with aptitude is that it remembers which packages you explicitly requested. And it cleans up packages that are no longer needed bases on this knowledge. So if you installed something without aptitude it may decide that it's not needed any more and decide to delete it. Therefore, use apritude interactively and *always* look through the packages it proposes to delete. If you want one of them, it's very easy to stop the deletion -- just explicitly requset it! Otherwise, aptitude uses the same underlying package management tools as apt-get. Guess I'll have to learn that aptitude full-screen interface. root's bash history tells me that this is what I did after a sarge netinst where I manually requested that no packages be installed on top of the base system: 1. apt-get update ; apt-get upgrade 2. edit /etc/apt/sources.list to point to testing 4. apt-get dist-upgrade 5. aptitude install screen less xserver-xorg xfonts-base wmaker conky xterm elinks cdrecord vim .. Is there a risk that at some point aptitude will mess up what I did in steps 2 and 4 .. ?? Don't know. I try not to try to break things. Just learn how to use the aptitude UI and get it set up then it won't mess anything up and will try to keep you from messing anything up either. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Etch status..?
On Mon, Nov 27, 2006 at 08:50:24PM EST, Douglas Tutty wrote: On Mon, Nov 27, 2006 at 05:13:56PM -0500, cga2000 wrote: On Sun, Nov 26, 2006 at 05:36:39PM EST, Douglas Tutty wrote: [..] I normally use apt-get or command-line aptitude. Part of your difficulty could be using two different (apt-get and aptitude) package managers. They each have different logic on dependancies (aptitude is the new standard) and keep their information in different places so they can't compare notes. Yeah .. that was pretty stupid of me .. As if I didn't have enough on my plate already. So I printed the output of a # history | grep apt I did the etch upgrade following the sarge install using apt-get and then installed half a dozen apps, Xorg, and the 2.6.8 and 2.6.17 kernels using aptitude. Sounds like I'll have to start over and stick to one or the other. The result of mixing the two can only be unpredictable since whoever wrote those two different interfaces would never have bothered about the implications of this silly behavior. All the same .. and I may be wrong about this but my gut feeling is that this is not related to my problems with networking. After all most of the live CD's that I tried that run recent kernels also failed to configure the network. You should figure out the aptitude full-screen. It really is quite easy. Tell aptitude (via the options menu) to automatically fix dependancies but not install recommends. Is there a tutorial anywhere? And I mean _tutorial_ that shows you how to use it .. not one of those cryptic manuals .. [.. completely removing hotplug ] dpkg -P hotplug removed the init.d/hotplug* scripts. Both the 2.4.27 and 2.6.8 kernels still boot OK and configure eth0 correctly. [.. validating contents of /etc/modules ] I have to look into the approach you recommend. [ .. retrieving oops messages before kernel starts logging ..] Found that the oops was caused by another PC card (slot 1) that connects an external CD burner. Inserting this card after booting the 2.6.17 kernel also results in the same kernel oops and a system freeze. The nice thing is that this time the messages are logged. However, if you have 2.6.8 working, why worry about earlier kernels? Stuff like my pcmcia/scsi CD burner .. DRI .. 1400x1050 framebuffer console .. and possibly other stuff that work with the 2.4 kernel.. So if any of these turns out to be a problem area with 2.6 kernels, I can boot the 2.4 kernel and run a backup .. play tuxracer .. etc. [..] Here's basically what's happening with 2.6.17 at this point: 1. The kernel oops goes away if I remove the CD burner's PC card. 2. Everything re the pcmcia NIC looks good (lsmod, pccardctl ..) 3. Except that eth0 is not configured 4. Also pccardctl (status or ident..?) marks the slot as [unbound] So it sounds like there's a table with an entry for each pcmcia slot somewhere in the kernel and that for some reason it does not get populated. or at least that the entry for slot 0 where my NIC lives doesn't have the name of the driver. My impression at this point is that I probably need to configure udev .. I read something about a udev resources database .. but I have no clue how to go about doing that and the docs I have found are cryptic and only (briefly) discuss the creation of this database when installing udev from source. I was thinking of installing a custom 2.6.17 or 2.6.18 from source over the weekend .. paying special attention to all pcmcia-related aspects. Could be that the vanilla 2.6 etch kernel does not support my particular pcmcia config. Another option .. now that I can at least boot this 2.6.17 kernel and retrieve logs and the output of lsmod .. lspcmcia .. pccardctl .. lspci .. etc. might be to post to the pcmcia mailing list .. see if anyone can figure out from my output what I need to do to get this to work. To be honest .. I am surprised that I couldn't find more in Google regarding pcmcia difficulties with recent kernels .. Maybe because PC cards NICs are a lot less popular these day and most recent laptops have a proper PCI network card .. ?? Sorry about being so verbose -- most of the above is speculation -- and thank you for your comments. Thanks cga -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Etch status..?
On Thu, Nov 30, 2006 at 08:21:25PM -0500, cga2000 wrote: On Mon, Nov 27, 2006 at 08:50:24PM EST, Douglas Tutty wrote: On Mon, Nov 27, 2006 at 05:13:56PM -0500, cga2000 wrote: On Sun, Nov 26, 2006 at 05:36:39PM EST, Douglas Tutty wrote: [..] I did the etch upgrade following the sarge install using apt-get and then installed half a dozen apps, Xorg, and the 2.6.8 and 2.6.17 kernels using aptitude. Sounds like I'll have to start over and stick to one or the other. No, just start using aptitude, stop using apt-get, and go manually through the list of packages from within aptitude, determine if they're ones you want, they depend on packages installed, or they're cruft. The result of mixing the two can only be unpredictable since whoever wrote those two different interfaces would never have bothered about the implications of this silly behavior. All the same .. and I may be wrong about this but my gut feeling is that this is not related to my problems with networking. After all most of the live CD's that I tried that run recent kernels also failed to configure the network. Don't know. Get your system in a coherent state then you can see what's what. You should figure out the aptitude full-screen. It really is quite easy. Tell aptitude (via the options menu) to automatically fix dependancies but not install recommends. Is there a tutorial anywhere? And I mean _tutorial_ that shows you how to use it .. not one of those cryptic manuals .. I don't know of a tutorial but there is an aptitude howto in /usr/share/doc/aptitude [.. completely removing hotplug ] dpkg -P hotplug removed the init.d/hotplug* scripts. Both the 2.4.27 and 2.6.8 kernels still boot OK and configure eth0 correctly. [.. validating contents of /etc/modules ] I have to look into the approach you recommend. However, if you have 2.6.8 working, why worry about earlier kernels? Stuff like my pcmcia/scsi CD burner .. DRI .. 1400x1050 framebuffer console .. and possibly other stuff that work with the 2.4 kernel.. So if any of these turns out to be a problem area with 2.6 kernels, I can boot the 2.4 kernel and run a backup .. play tuxracer .. etc. At least you have 2.4 and 2.6 kernels booting. You can tackle each piece of hardware that doesn't work one at a time. Here's basically what's happening with 2.6.17 at this point: 1. The kernel oops goes away if I remove the CD burner's PC card. 2. Everything re the pcmcia NIC looks good (lsmod, pccardctl ..) 3. Except that eth0 is not configured 4. Also pccardctl (status or ident..?) marks the slot as [unbound] So it sounds like there's a table with an entry for each pcmcia slot somewhere in the kernel and that for some reason it does not get populated. or at least that the entry for slot 0 where my NIC lives doesn't have the name of the driver. I'm assuming that you have the pcmcia packages installed? They're in addition to the regular kernel and I think (its been years since I had pcmcia) one package is kernel-specific. If you're missing this for the 2.6 kernel it could explain a lot. My impression at this point is that I probably need to configure udev .. I read something about a udev resources database .. but I have no clue how to go about doing that and the docs I have found are cryptic and only (briefly) discuss the creation of this database when installing udev from source. I was thinking of installing a custom 2.6.17 or 2.6.18 from source over the weekend .. paying special attention to all pcmcia-related aspects. Could be that the vanilla 2.6 etch kernel does not support my particular pcmcia config. Another option .. now that I can at least boot this 2.6.17 kernel and retrieve logs and the output of lsmod .. lspcmcia .. pccardctl .. lspci .. etc. might be to post to the pcmcia mailing list .. see if anyone can figure out from my output what I need to do to get this to work. To be honest .. I am surprised that I couldn't find more in Google regarding pcmcia difficulties with recent kernels .. Maybe because PC cards NICs are a lot less popular these day and most recent laptops have a proper PCI network card .. ?? Sorry about being so verbose -- most of the above is speculation -- and thank you for your comments. When you're trying to track down multiple overlapping problems, verbose beats terse any day. Take it one problem at a time. I would suggest first sorting out aptitude and your package dependencies; it makes updates easier if the system is intact. Then pick one deficiency and work it through, then another. Be careful of trying to fix more than one thing at once in case they're inter-related. Good luck. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Etch status..?
On Thu, Nov 30, 2006 at 08:37:52PM -0500, Douglas Tutty wrote: On Thu, Nov 30, 2006 at 08:21:25PM -0500, cga2000 wrote: On Mon, Nov 27, 2006 at 08:50:24PM EST, Douglas Tutty wrote: On Mon, Nov 27, 2006 at 05:13:56PM -0500, cga2000 wrote: On Sun, Nov 26, 2006 at 05:36:39PM EST, Douglas Tutty wrote: [..] I did the etch upgrade following the sarge install using apt-get and then installed half a dozen apps, Xorg, and the 2.6.8 and 2.6.17 kernels using aptitude. Sounds like I'll have to start over and stick to one or the other. No, just start using aptitude, stop using apt-get, and go manually through the list of packages from within aptitude, determine if they're ones you want, they depend on packages installed, or they're cruft. The big difference with aptitude is that it remembers which packages you explicitly requested. And it cleans up packages that are no longer needed bases on this knowledge. So if you installed something without aptitude it may decide that it's not needed any more and decide to delete it. Therefore, use apritude interactively and *always* look through the packages it proposes to delete. If you want one of them, it's very easy to stop the deletion -- just explicitly requset it! Otherwise, aptitude uses the same underlying package management tools as apt-get. -- hendrik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Etch status..?
On Thu, Nov 30, 2006 at 10:37:34PM EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Nov 30, 2006 at 08:37:52PM -0500, Douglas Tutty wrote: On Thu, Nov 30, 2006 at 08:21:25PM -0500, cga2000 wrote: On Mon, Nov 27, 2006 at 08:50:24PM EST, Douglas Tutty wrote: On Mon, Nov 27, 2006 at 05:13:56PM -0500, cga2000 wrote: On Sun, Nov 26, 2006 at 05:36:39PM EST, Douglas Tutty wrote: [..] I did the etch upgrade following the sarge install using apt-get and then installed half a dozen apps, Xorg, and the 2.6.8 and 2.6.17 kernels using aptitude. Sounds like I'll have to start over and stick to one or the other. No, just start using aptitude, stop using apt-get, and go manually through the list of packages from within aptitude, determine if they're ones you want, they depend on packages installed, or they're cruft. The big difference with aptitude is that it remembers which packages you explicitly requested. And it cleans up packages that are no longer needed bases on this knowledge. So if you installed something without aptitude it may decide that it's not needed any more and decide to delete it. Therefore, use apritude interactively and *always* look through the packages it proposes to delete. If you want one of them, it's very easy to stop the deletion -- just explicitly requset it! Otherwise, aptitude uses the same underlying package management tools as apt-get. Guess I'll have to learn that aptitude full-screen interface. root's bash history tells me that this is what I did after a sarge netinst where I manually requested that no packages be installed on top of the base system: 1. apt-get update ; apt-get upgrade 2. edit /etc/apt/sources.list to point to testing 4. apt-get dist-upgrade 5. aptitude install screen less xserver-xorg xfonts-base wmaker conky xterm elinks cdrecord vim .. Is there a risk that at some point aptitude will mess up what I did in steps 2 and 4 .. ?? Thanks cga -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Etch status..?
On Sun, Nov 26, 2006 at 05:36:39PM EST, Douglas Tutty wrote: Hi Cga, I've put my comments inline to make things clearer (I hope). On Sun, Nov 26, 2006 at 02:39:38PM -0500, cga2000 wrote: [..] Everything went well until I tried to boot the 2.6.17 kernel. Do I read this right?: You're OK running Etch with kernel 2.6.8 and the problem is booting to 2.6.17? Yes, I now have three kernels installed on this etch system. 1. The original 2.4.27 that came with sarge 2. The 2.6.8 kernel that I installed before upgrading to etch 3. The 2.6.17 kernel that was installed from the linux-image deb. Both the 2.4.27 and 2.7.8 kernel boot without any problem. Both configure my pcmcia NIC and acquire an IP address from my ISP. The 2.6.17 kernel on the other hand dies almost immediately. Also, please confirm that you are using aptitude. When having troubles you can (I always do anyway) use the interactive UI. Aptitude is the smartest package manager and is the Debian recommended one. I haven't yet quite figured out how to use the ncurses full-screen version of aptiude. I normally use apt-get or command-line aptitude. Null pointer or something and dies with a kernel oops. Hopefully some who know about kernel oops can answer that one. I'm assuming its a module problem related to hotplug fighting with udev. That's the general idea. Since I did an aptitude install linux-image.2.6.17.3.. there would appear to be a bug here.. I'm still confused about the installer asking me to manually remove the hotplug package. If it must be done .. why doesn't _he_ (she?) do it..??? Can a 2.6.17 kernel and the older 2.4.27 2.6.8 share the same partitions -- /etc/init.d startup scripts config files, eg. ?? Yes. The init.d scripts themselves are kernel-independant. I'll take your word for it. Only thing that looked a bit suspicious along the way is that when I did an apt-get install of this more recent kernel .. when apt does his setup bit right at the end.. well .. there was this very visible message like with 2-3 lines of asterisks before and after the message .. asking me to remove/purge the hotplug package .. or rather the hotplug stuff in /etc/init.d ... IIRC. The problem is that Etch's kernels need to use udev which is incompatible with hotplug. So apt is not doing his job. So I did a dpkg -l hotplug and it turned out to be in rc status -- r as in removed but c as in configuration files are still in there (and scripts probably) .. that is how I read it. Now for one one thing I have no clue how I should go about removing that stuff .. do I do a dpkg -L hotplug and delete/rename the files .. And another thing ... isn't that likely to break the boot process for the older kernels..? Does your existing set __need__ to use hotplug? I have no clue :-( I definitely do not need any hotplugging capabilities for my PC cards. Only reason I might remove them from the laptop is when trying to diagnose some fishy issue like this one. I could never get it to work and since I didn't have anything I was hotplugging anyway, I didn't use it. I figured out which kernel modules were needed (read the kernel-xx doc package) and used modconf to get things set up correctly. Etch with udev does this all on the fly, but without udev it doesn't fly. :-) I had similar problems when I was going from 2.2.* to 2.4; I wanted to take time to get 2.4 working right but then I'd have to get some real work done and needed a functioning system and want to boot 2.2 The problem as noted in the Etch release notes is that the module names and sometimes parameters change when going from one kernel major to another. This means, for example, that /etc/modules could be invalid for one of them. Agreed. Sounds to me like if you need to boot a wide array of kernels for testing purposes it would be nice to have separate /etc's for each of them. Assuming that you're now running Etch, I am running etch. to remove hotplug, since you know the name of the one package, use dpkg directly: dpkg -P hotplug and see what that gives. It's marked rc in dpkg -l hotplug Not sure I understand this separation of kernel upgrade vs. distribution upgrade would work .. Kernel versions are brought forward into new releases for just this reason. You can run an up-to-date release with an older kernel. I think that they continue to get security updates for about two years which means that you have two years to work on this. That's okay .. I've already spent one year on this upgrade .. :-) Do they get written anywhere where I could retrieve them after the fact? Kernel messages should go to /var/log/syslog among others. I'd have to boot it again to be 100% sure but I'm quite confident the oops occurs way before klogd/sylogd take off. If you find that they are __only__ showing up on the screen (console), you could use a console=
Re: Etch status..?
On Mon, Nov 27, 2006 at 05:13:56PM -0500, cga2000 wrote: On Sun, Nov 26, 2006 at 05:36:39PM EST, Douglas Tutty wrote: Everything went well until I tried to boot the 2.6.17 kernel. Do I read this right?: You're OK running Etch with kernel 2.6.8 and the problem is booting to 2.6.17? Yes, I now have three kernels installed on this etch system. 1. The original 2.4.27 that came with sarge 2. The 2.6.8 kernel that I installed before upgrading to etch 3. The 2.6.17 kernel that was installed from the linux-image deb. Both the 2.4.27 and 2.7.8 kernel boot without any problem. Both configure my pcmcia NIC and acquire an IP address from my ISP. The 2.6.17 kernel on the other hand dies almost immediately. Also, please confirm that you are using aptitude. When having troubles you can (I always do anyway) use the interactive UI. Aptitude is the smartest package manager and is the Debian recommended one. I haven't yet quite figured out how to use the ncurses full-screen version of aptiude. I normally use apt-get or command-line aptitude. Part of your difficulty could be using two different (apt-get and aptitude) package managers. They each have different logic on dependancies (aptitude is the new standard) and keep their information in different places so they can't compare notes. You should figure out the aptitude full-screen. It really is quite easy. Tell aptitude (via the options menu) to automatically fix dependancies but not install recommends. Since I did an aptitude install linux-image.2.6.17.3.. there would appear to be a bug here.. I'm still confused about the installer asking me to manually remove the hotplug package. If it must be done .. why doesn't _he_ (she?) do it..??? Its probably a pre/post script from the kernel package asking you to remove hotplug, not aptitude itself. If prior to this you had set up aptitude with what packages __you__ wanted installed vs what packages were only there to satisfy dependancies (using M and m), then it would have removed hotplug. The problem is that Etch's kernels need to use udev which is incompatible with hotplug. So apt is not doing his job. Since aptitude didn't install hotplug it doesn't think that it was automatically installed. It will only remove something automatically if it was installed automatically. The problem may be that the new kernel doesn't have hotplug as a 'conflict' or something. And another thing ... isn't that likely to break the boot process for the older kernels..? Not if the required modules are loaded at boot time anyway. Does your existing set __need__ to use hotplug? I have no clue Try this: lsmod You may even want to lsmod | lpr to have a hard copy. This gives you a list of all modules currently loaded in a table: Module SizeUsedBy Module is the name of the module Size doen't matter :) Used is important here By is also. Make a list of all module names where used is 0. These are candidates for inclusion in /etc/modules. For example, I have ne 74920 839098561 ne I have ne in my /etc/modules. Its for my NIC. When the ne module is loaded, it depends on 8390 so it gets automatically loaded. I don't need 8390 in my /etc/modules. Some of the 'used 0' modules are automatically loaded by the kernel anyway, e.g. ide_disk. The modules that you need to load are for hardware that the kernel doesn't need to know about to boot, e.g. NICs, mice, parports, lp, etc. So with nothing in /etc/modules your computer should still boot (but have a rescue boot [floppy, install CD, whatever] available for your friend Justin Case. Then dpkg -P hotplug to get rid of it. Double check that the init.d scripts for hotplug are gone. Reboot into the same kernel that works. Use modconf to get the modules you need back. Modconf will put the right lines in /etc/modules and /etc/modprobe.d Use lsmod and compare with what it was before. When you're happy that all your hardware works, then reboot and verify that all the modules you need get loaded. Sounds to me like if you need to boot a wide array of kernels for testing purposes it would be nice to have separate /etc's for each of them. The only things in /etc/ that are kernel specific are /etc/modules, /etc/modprobe.d, and modules.conf (generated by update-modules from modules and modprobe.d). to remove hotplug, since you know the name of the one package, use dpkg directly: dpkg -P hotplug and see what that gives. It's marked rc in dpkg -l hotplug dpkg -l justs lists the info about hotplug. You don't really care, you want it out of there. -P purges hotplug (removes it and its config files). You should also make sure that you're not also using devfs which has been replaced by udev. Not sure I understand this separation of kernel upgrade vs. distribution upgrade would work .. Kernel versions are brought
Re: Etch status..?
Michelle Konzack wrote: Am 2006-11-23 22:15:01, schrieb cga2000: I installed the latest 2.6.18.3 alongside the 2.4.27 that initially came with the sarge netinst and sure enough my PC card is no longer recognized. So it looks like I'm stuck with a 2.4 kernel for the lifetime of this laptop. You can install on a working Debian-Machine the package debian-cd download the source of 2.4.32 and build your own Debian-Install-CD. I have done this several times before and and since I have 11 computers which do not want to boot with a 686 kernel This stupid Kernel-Maintainers have included SMP in 686/Etch and the D-I give me no chance to choose another Kernel Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant i do not understand. what is the problem?? quote: *SMP images merged with non-SMP*. After the release of linux-image-2.6.17-2 the SMP and non-smp images where integrated into only one image. After this you will no longer find images like linux-image-2.6.16-2-686-smp and linux-image-2.6.16-2-686 but only one image that will detect at run time the presence of a SMP system and enable or disable the SMP code: * Sarge: kernel-image-2.6.8-2-686 and kernel-image-2.6.8-2-686-smp * Etch: linux-image-2.6.17-2-686 kind regards, steef -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Etch status..?
On Fri, Nov 24, 2006 at 12:10:25AM EST, Douglas Tutty wrote: On Thu, Nov 23, 2006 at 10:15:01PM -0500, cga2000 wrote: [..] So it looks like I'm stuck with a 2.4 kernel for the lifetime of this laptop. What card is not recognized? I would suggest tackling that as a specific problem rather than writing off the 2.6 kernel. Something had to be written off and the etch installer looked indeed like a better candidate than the linux kernel. :-) As you implied I took it one step at a time, making sure I still had connectivity after each one of them: 1. Did a minimal Sarge install 2. Installed the 2.6.8 kernel alongside the native 2.4.27 3. Upgraded to testing/etch via a dist-upgrade 4. Installed the etch 2.6.17 kernel alongside his two brothers Everything went well until I tried to boot the 2.6.17 kernel. Null pointer or something and dies with a kernel oops. Can a 2.6.17 kernel and the older 2.4.27 2.6.8 share the same partitions -- /etc/init.d startup scripts config files, eg. ?? Only thing that looked a bit suspicious along the way is that when I did an apt-get install of this more recent kernel .. when apt does his setup bit right at the end.. well .. there was this very visible message like with 2-3 lines of asterisks before and after the message .. asking me to remove/purge the hotplug package .. or rather the hotplug stuff in /etc/init.d ... IIRC. So I did a dpkg -l hotplug and it turned out to be in rc status -- r as in removed but c as in configuration files are still in there (and scripts probably) .. that is how I read it. Now for one one thing I have no clue how I should go about removing that stuff .. do I do a dpkg -L hotplug and delete/rename the files .. And another thing ... isn't that likely to break the boot process for the older kernels..? Not sure I understand this separation of kernel upgrade vs. distribution upgrade would work .. Wouldn't there be incompatibilities .. ?? I mean .. with different versions of an application you would write some kind of wrapper script that configures the environment prior to launching the apps.. With kernels it looks like the only place you can stick in some custom stuff is your boot parms .. But then I'm speculating .. problem might lie elsewhere and turn out to be trivial .. Maybe the messages issued prior to the crash/hang are of some interest .. and I could google for similar occurrences .. Do they get written anywhere where I could retrieve them after the fact? Funnily enough, while it's nice to have vim 7.0 and some other more contemporary stuff in user space .. 2.6.8 doesn't do me any good at all .. I need 2.6.13+ .. :-( In any case it's pretty clear now that this had nothing to do with my hardware not being supported .. wouldn't be one bit surprised if other PC card NICs were affected in the same manner .. all of them possibly .. Among the many things I tried was playing with a number of live CD's and I found that the morphix-based ELive with a 2.6.11 kernel recognized and configured my NIC correctly and obtained a DHCP lease w/o a problem. Thanks cga -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Etch status..?
Hi Cga, I've put my comments inline to make things clearer (I hope). On Sun, Nov 26, 2006 at 02:39:38PM -0500, cga2000 wrote: On Fri, Nov 24, 2006 at 12:10:25AM EST, Douglas Tutty wrote: On Thu, Nov 23, 2006 at 10:15:01PM -0500, cga2000 wrote: So it looks like I'm stuck with a 2.4 kernel for the lifetime of this laptop. As you implied I took it one step at a time, making sure I still had connectivity after each one of them: 1. Did a minimal Sarge install 2. Installed the 2.6.8 kernel alongside the native 2.4.27 3. Upgraded to testing/etch via a dist-upgrade 4. Installed the etch 2.6.17 kernel alongside his two brothers Everything went well until I tried to boot the 2.6.17 kernel. Do I read this right?: You're OK running Etch with kernel 2.6.8 and the problem is booting to 2.6.17? Also, please confirm that you are using aptitude. When having troubles you can (I always do anyway) use the interactive UI. Aptitude is the smartest package manager and is the Debian recommended one. Null pointer or something and dies with a kernel oops. Hopefully some who know about kernel oops can answer that one. I'm assuming its a module problem related to hotplug fighting with udev. Can a 2.6.17 kernel and the older 2.4.27 2.6.8 share the same partitions -- /etc/init.d startup scripts config files, eg. ?? Yes. The init.d scripts themselves are kernel-independant. Only thing that looked a bit suspicious along the way is that when I did an apt-get install of this more recent kernel .. when apt does his setup bit right at the end.. well .. there was this very visible message like with 2-3 lines of asterisks before and after the message .. asking me to remove/purge the hotplug package .. or rather the hotplug stuff in /etc/init.d ... IIRC. The problem is that Etch's kernels need to use udev which is incompatible with hotplug. So I did a dpkg -l hotplug and it turned out to be in rc status -- r as in removed but c as in configuration files are still in there (and scripts probably) .. that is how I read it. Now for one one thing I have no clue how I should go about removing that stuff .. do I do a dpkg -L hotplug and delete/rename the files .. And another thing ... isn't that likely to break the boot process for the older kernels..? Does your existing set __need__ to use hotplug? I could never get it to work and since I didn't have anything I was hotplugging anyway, I didn't use it. I figured out which kernel modules were needed (read the kernel-xx doc package) and used modconf to get things set up correctly. Etch with udev does this all on the fly, but without udev it doesn't fly. I had similar problems when I was going from 2.2.* to 2.4; I wanted to take time to get 2.4 working right but then I'd have to get some real work done and needed a functioning system and want to boot 2.2 The problem as noted in the Etch release notes is that the module names and sometimes parameters change when going from one kernel major to another. This means, for example, that /etc/modules could be invalid for one of them. Assuming that you're now running Etch, to remove hotplug, since you know the name of the one package, use dpkg directly: dpkg -P hotplug and see what that gives. Not sure I understand this separation of kernel upgrade vs. distribution upgrade would work .. Kernel versions are brought forward into new releases for just this reason. You can run an up-to-date release with an older kernel. I think that they continue to get security updates for about two years which means that you have two years to work on this. Do they get written anywhere where I could retrieve them after the fact? Kernel messages should go to /var/log/syslog among others. If you find that they are __only__ showing up on the screen (console), you could use a console= kernel command line and send console messages to the serial port as well as the screen and capture that with another computer. Funnily enough, while it's nice to have vim 7.0 and some other more contemporary stuff in user space .. 2.6.8 doesn't do me any good at all My 486 is faster on 2.6 than it was on 2.2 or 2.4. I think its a smarter scheduler or something. .. I need 2.6.13+ .. In any case it's pretty clear now that this had nothing to do with my hardware not being supported .. wouldn't be one bit surprised if other PC card NICs were affected in the same manner .. all of them possibly .. Among the many things I tried was playing with a number of live CD's and I found that the morphix-based ELive with a 2.6.11 kernel recognized and configured my NIC correctly and obtained a DHCP lease w/o a problem. They probably do not have hotplug and do use udev. To summarize: Confirm that you are now running Etch with a 2.4 kernel and all is well, that its booting the 2.6 that is the problem. If you can put the modules you need (as determined for now by hotplug) in /etc/modules then you can
Re: Etch status..?
As you implied I took it one step at a time, making sure I still had connectivity after each one of them: 1. Did a minimal Sarge install 2. Installed the 2.6.8 kernel alongside the native 2.4.27 3. Upgraded to testing/etch via a dist-upgrade 4. Installed the etch 2.6.17 kernel alongside his two brothers Everything went well until I tried to boot the 2.6.17 kernel. Perhaps installing Etch directly, instead of installing Sarge, and then upgrading to Etch, would work better. Mark -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Etch status..?
Am 2006-11-23 22:15:01, schrieb cga2000: I installed the latest 2.6.18.3 alongside the 2.4.27 that initially came with the sarge netinst and sure enough my PC card is no longer recognized. So it looks like I'm stuck with a 2.4 kernel for the lifetime of this laptop. You can install on a working Debian-Machine the package debian-cd download the source of 2.4.32 and build your own Debian-Install-CD. I have done this several times before and and since I have 11 computers which do not want to boot with a 686 kernel This stupid Kernel-Maintainers have included SMP in 686/Etch and the D-I give me no chance to choose another Kernel Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature
Re: Etch status..?
On Tue, Nov 21, 2006 at 11:56:50PM EST, Alan Ianson wrote: [..] It's upto you if you want a 2.6 or 2.4 kernel.. :) Well not really... :-( I installed the latest 2.6.18.3 alongside the 2.4.27 that initially came with the sarge netinst and sure enough my PC card is no longer recognized. So it looks like I'm stuck with a 2.4 kernel for the lifetime of this laptop. Thanks cga -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Etch status..?
On Thu, Nov 23, 2006 at 10:15:01PM -0500, cga2000 wrote: On Tue, Nov 21, 2006 at 11:56:50PM EST, Alan Ianson wrote: [..] It's upto you if you want a 2.6 or 2.4 kernel.. :) Well not really... :-( I installed the latest 2.6.18.3 alongside the 2.4.27 that initially came with the sarge netinst and sure enough my PC card is no longer recognized. So it looks like I'm stuck with a 2.4 kernel for the lifetime of this laptop. What card is not recognized? I would suggest tackling that as a specific problem rather than writing off the 2.6 kernel. I run a 486 with a 2.6 kernel, then again its not a laptop. Don't give up. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Etch status..?
On Thu, 2006-23-11 at 22:15 -0500, cga2000 wrote: On Tue, Nov 21, 2006 at 11:56:50PM EST, Alan Ianson wrote: [..] It's upto you if you want a 2.6 or 2.4 kernel.. :) Well not really... :-( I installed the latest 2.6.18.3 alongside the 2.4.27 that initially came with the sarge netinst and sure enough my PC card is no longer recognized. So it looks like I'm stuck with a 2.4 kernel for the lifetime of this laptop. It should be doable but you may need to build a kernel module for that card. I did that once for my laptop, it was kind of hellish but I got it done.. :) What card is giving you trouble? Maybe someone on the list can help you out. I got a lot of help getting my wireless pcmcia card working with sarge from the debian-laptop list, this list would likely do just as well. udev is used with the 2.6 kernels now rather than hotplug. Do you have udev installed now as apposed to hotplug? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Etch status..?
On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 22:07:58 -0500 cga2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Nov 21, 2006 at 07:30:00PM EST, Alan Ianson wrote: On Tue November 21 2006 13:47, cga2000 wrote: [..] I did notice that I'm still running the sarge 2.4.27 kernel instead of the 2.6.17 that's in the etch repository.. Is this normal .. or did my dist-upgrade run into a problem and decide not to upgrade to a more recent kernel? Yes, you have the latest 2.4 kernel. You could upgrade to a 2.6 kernel if you wanted too, look for linux-image-???. So you are telling me that apt-get/aptitude dist-upgrade do not upgrade the kernel .. IOW that what I have experienced is normal ..? In fact, generally one does not upgrade a kernel at all; instead, one installs a new kernel alongside the existing one(s). You can track the latest kernel by installing a meta-package like linux-image-2.6-686. -- Liam -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Etch status..?
On Tue, Nov 21, 2006 at 07:30:00PM EST, Alan Ianson wrote: On Tue November 21 2006 13:47, cga2000 wrote: [..] I did notice that I'm still running the sarge 2.4.27 kernel instead of the 2.6.17 that's in the etch repository.. Is this normal .. or did my dist-upgrade run into a problem and decide not to upgrade to a more recent kernel? Yes, you have the latest 2.4 kernel. You could upgrade to a 2.6 kernel if you wanted too, look for linux-image-???. So you are telling me that apt-get/aptitude dist-upgrade do not upgrade the kernel .. IOW that what I have experienced is normal ..? Thanks cga -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Etch status..?
On Tue, Nov 21, 2006 at 10:07:58PM -0500, cga2000 wrote: On Tue, Nov 21, 2006 at 07:30:00PM EST, Alan Ianson wrote: On Tue November 21 2006 13:47, cga2000 wrote: So you are telling me that apt-get/aptitude dist-upgrade do not upgrade the kernel .. IOW that what I have experienced is normal ..? The release notes are very strong in their suggestion to separate upgrading a version from upgrading a kernel. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Etch status..?
On Tue November 21 2006 19:07, cga2000 wrote: I did notice that I'm still running the sarge 2.4.27 kernel instead of the 2.6.17 that's in the etch repository.. Is this normal .. or did my dist-upgrade run into a problem and decide not to upgrade to a more recent kernel? Yes, you have the latest 2.4 kernel. You could upgrade to a 2.6 kernel if you wanted too, look for linux-image-???. So you are telling me that apt-get/aptitude dist-upgrade do not upgrade the kernel .. IOW that what I have experienced is normal ..? I have linux-image-2.6-amd64 installed, that is a meta package that keeps the latest 2.6-amd64 kernel installed (2.6.17-2-amd64 at the moment). You likely have something like that that tracks the latest 2.4 kernel. Once you've made the switch to a 2.6 kernel apt-get / dselect / aptitude will keep you upto date. It's upto you if you want a 2.6 or 2.4 kernel.. :) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Etch status..?
On Fri, Nov 17, 2006 at 01:01:35AM EST, Kevin Mark wrote: On Thu, Nov 16, 2006 at 08:22:47PM -0500, cga2000 wrote: [..] I have heard rumors that etch will soon become stable. Would any one know when this is likely to happen? Or is it already frozen and I could start my reinstall this coming week-end without having to do it all over again when it becomes stable? From what I know, my best guess is december-january. The release team has already started to freeze part of the basic system (where freeze is the release state before stable aka etch) Sounds like I could anticipate and do it some time next week. After all this is only my laptop -- not some mission-critical server. and the rc bug count is less that 200. If you want any more info, Steve Langasek and Andreas Barth (the relase managers) are making updates on planet[0]. Here is a URL[1] to a png of the rc bug count. .. which reminds me that I opened a bug when I ran into these problems and haven't checked its status in months. Cheers, Kev [0] http://planet.debian.org [1] http://people.debian.org/~sesse/bugscan/ Thanks. cga -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Etch status..?
cga2000 wrote: I have heard rumors that etch will soon become stable. Would any one know when this is likely to happen? Current schedule is end of this year. [1] Or is it already frozen and I could start my reinstall this coming week-end without having to do it all over again when it becomes stable? Part is frozen. This is a laptop with a pcmcia NIC. Back in April, I spent over two months trying to install etch but I was never able to finish the install. The etch installer just did not recognize the NIC .. I was never able to bring up a network connection .. as a result I ended up with an etch install that I could not finalize. Since the stable etch installer probably won't work any better with this laptop .. and since the sarge installer did work .. I was thinking the above might be the best solution. How do you come to the conclusion that the stable etch installer wouldn't work better with that laptop? If any linux works with your nic, so should debian etch and it's installer (except perhaps, if it needs some non-free firmware). The installer team has made some great progress with the installer, recently releasing the current release candidate [2]. I guess you have a fair chance to give it a try. You should also send a report about your installation to either confirm that everything went smoothly or to help improving things for the future. Johannes [1] http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/11/msg4.html [2] http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/11/msg3.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Etch status..?
On Fri, Nov 17, 2006 at 12:27:23PM EST, Johannes Wiedersich wrote: [..] How do you come to the conclusion that the stable etch installer wouldn't work better with that laptop? bug #352758 is still marked as outstanding .. If any linux works with your nic, so should debian etch and it's installer (except perhaps, if it needs some non-free firmware). The installer team has made some great progress with the installer, recently releasing the current release candidate [2]. Good point. Last time I tried was 8 months ago and I would rather do an etch install than a sarge+upgrade. So I'll give it another shot. I guess you have a fair chance to give it a try. You should also send a report about your installation to either confirm that everything went smoothly or to help improving things for the future. How do I do that..? Who do I send the report to .. and what kind of info do they need to make it useful? Thanks cga -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Etch status..?
On Fri, Nov 17, 2006 at 07:38:09PM -0500, cga2000 wrote: On Fri, Nov 17, 2006 at 12:27:23PM EST, Johannes Wiedersich wrote: Good point. Last time I tried was 8 months ago and I would rather do an etch install than a sarge+upgrade. So I'll give it another shot. I guess you have a fair chance to give it a try. You should also send a report about your installation to either confirm that everything went smoothly or to help improving things for the future. How do I do that..? Who do I send the report to .. and what kind of info do they need to make it useful? You need to have read a recent installation manual when you do the install, and have it handy as you go through the install. The manual provides a plain-text form to fill out and mail, with instructions. Last time I did an etch install with a netinst iso on a USB stick, it took 20 minutes. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Etch status..?
On Fri, Nov 17, 2006 at 08:03:40PM EST, Douglas Tutty wrote: On Fri, Nov 17, 2006 at 07:38:09PM -0500, cga2000 wrote: On Fri, Nov 17, 2006 at 12:27:23PM EST, Johannes Wiedersich wrote: Good point. Last time I tried was 8 months ago and I would rather do an etch install than a sarge+upgrade. So I'll give it another shot. I guess you have a fair chance to give it a try. You should also send a report about your installation to either confirm that everything went smoothly or to help improving things for the future. How do I do that..? Who do I send the report to .. and what kind of info do they need to make it useful? You need to have read a recent installation manual when you do the install, and have it handy as you go through the install. The manual provides a plain-text form to fill out and mail, with instructions. [..] OK. I'll take a look tomorrow. cga -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Etch status..?
On Thu, Nov 16, 2006 at 08:22:47PM -0500, cga2000 wrote: I need to upgrade my current sarge to something more current. Is this the recommended procedure -- the one less likely to provide major headaches: 1. Install sarge on a new partition 2. Wait till etch become stable. 3. Do a blind upgrade. Blind upgrading is never recommended. 4. Customize. I need to re-install sarge because I have had to install practically every app that I use from source. The .deb's were missing important configure options that I could not do without and I was unable to figure out how to create my own. Checkout my HOWTO: http://people.connexer.com/~roberto/howtos/debcustomize Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sanchez http://people.connexer.com/~roberto http://www.connexer.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Etch status..?
On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 20:22:47 -0500 cga2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I need to upgrade my current sarge to something more current. Is this the recommended procedure -- the one less likely to provide major headaches: 1. Install sarge on a new partition 2. Wait till etch become stable. 3. Do a blind upgrade. 4. Customize. I need to re-install sarge because I have had to install practically every app that I use from source. The .deb's were missing important configure options that I could not do without and I was unable to figure out how to create my own. Another reason I'd rather do a new install is that I need a working system while I am building the new one. Besides, I will be able to refer to my current system for the customization of the new one. I have heard rumors that etch will soon become stable. Would any one know when this is likely to happen? Or is it already frozen and I could start my reinstall this coming week-end without having to do it all over again when it becomes stable? Thanks cga Note: This is a laptop with a pcmcia NIC. Back in April, I spent over two months trying to install etch but I was never able to finish the install. The etch installer just did not recognize the NIC .. I was never able to bring up a network connection .. as a result I ended up with an etch install that I could not finalize. Since the stable etch installer probably won't work any better with this laptop .. and since the sarge installer did work .. I was thinking the above might be the best solution. I don't know if there is a recommended procedure, but if there was one my guess would be to use a net-install cd and install from a mirror. Once installed you should not have to re-install... ever. I have been using Etch since 00.org hit v. 2.0, a year or so, while updating when reading the users list indicated it was safe, for my skill level to upgrade. The laptop pcmcia card issue is a trial an error issue, if Etch doesn't support it, use sarge and do a minimal install, change your sources list to Etch and do a full install. Use 'dpkg get-selections 'dpkg set-selections to get the packages installed the same as the old install. man dpkg. -- Greg Madden -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Etch status..?
On Thu, Nov 16, 2006 at 10:51:44PM EST, Greg Madden wrote: On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 20:22:47 -0500 cga2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I need to upgrade my current sarge to something more current. Is this the recommended procedure -- the one less likely to provide major headaches: 1. Install sarge on a new partition 2. Wait till etch become stable. 3. Do a blind upgrade. 4. Customize. [...] Note: This is a laptop with a pcmcia NIC. Back in April, I spent over two months trying to install etch but I was never able to finish the install. The etch installer just did not recognize the NIC .. I was never able to bring up a network connection .. as a result I ended up with an etch install that I could not finalize. Since the stable etch installer probably won't work any better with this laptop .. and since the sarge installer did work .. I was thinking the above might be the best solution. I don't know if there is a recommended procedure, but if there was one my guess would be to use a net-install cd and install from a mirror. Once installed you should not have to re-install... ever. An additional reason is that this was originally a chown install that I did to evaluate debian -- was a discontented Red Hat user at the time.. Turned out to be so much to my liking that it quickly became my main environment. But as it was meant to be a trial install, I only gave it a 2.5G partition .. which has become a problem. So I would have to use one of those drive partitioning tools to move things around .. I think I'd rather do a clean install and keep the current one as a fallback if/when things go wrong. Especially since due to the aborted install of etch all the grub-related stuff currently lives in that aborted install's / partition.. :-( The minimum net-install of sarge + upgrade to etch is precisely what I had in mind. What bothers me is that I have a feeling the NIC/pcmcia issue is more linked to major changes regarding pcmcia handling in 2.6 kernels than the debian installer .. So I wouldn't be surprised if the etch upgrade caused problems even if the sarge net-install goes smoothly. I have been using Etch since 00.org hit v. 2.0, a year or so, while updating when reading the users list indicated it was safe, for my skill level to upgrade. The laptop pcmcia card issue is a trial an error issue, :-) .. gave up after two months of trials .. rather trying .. if Etch doesn't support it, use sarge and do a minimal install, change your sources list to Etch and do a full install. Use 'dpkg get-selections 'dpkg set-selections to get the packages installed the same as the old install. man dpkg. .. That's probably not even going to be necessary since I am quite happy with xterm, gnu/screen, mutt, vim, and elinks. And since I ended up installing all of these from source .. But thanks for the tip .. There may be daemon stuff that I may have customized after my initial sarge install. Thanks cga -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Etch status..?
On Thu, Nov 16, 2006 at 08:25:14PM EST, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote: On Thu, Nov 16, 2006 at 08:22:47PM -0500, cga2000 wrote: I need to upgrade my current sarge to something more current. Is this the recommended procedure -- the one less likely to provide major headaches: 1. Install sarge on a new partition 2. Wait till etch become stable. 3. Do a blind upgrade. Blind upgrading is never recommended. Sorry .. wrong choice of terms. I meant .. do the sarge install and immediately issue and upgrade-to-etch command. This would amount to an etch install but would hopefully bypass my problems with the etch installer not recognizing my NIC (and then it might not .. the upgrade might screw everything up). 4. Customize. I need to re-install sarge because I have had to install practically every app that I use from source. The .deb's were missing important configure options that I could not do without and I was unable to figure out how to create my own. Checkout my HOWTO: http://people.connexer.com/~roberto/howtos/debcustomize Thanks. I have downloaded this document to my HD and will experiment over the week-end. I will let you know how it goes. Thanks. cga I replied to Roberto's message a few hours ago but I replied to him directly rather than to the list. Roberto: Thanks again for your comments all apologies if you get this message twice. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Etch status..?
On Thu, Nov 16, 2006 at 08:22:47PM -0500, cga2000 wrote: I need to upgrade my current sarge to something more current. Is this the recommended procedure -- the one less likely to provide major headaches: 1. Install sarge on a new partition 2. Wait till etch become stable. 3. Do a blind upgrade. 4. Customize. I need to re-install sarge because I have had to install practically every app that I use from source. The .deb's were missing important configure options that I could not do without and I was unable to figure out how to create my own. Another reason I'd rather do a new install is that I need a working system while I am building the new one. Besides, I will be able to refer to my current system for the customization of the new one. I have heard rumors that etch will soon become stable. Would any one know when this is likely to happen? Or is it already frozen and I could start my reinstall this coming week-end without having to do it all over again when it becomes stable? From what I know, my best guess is december-january. The release team has already started to freeze part of the basic system (where freeze is the release state before stable aka etch) and the rc bug count is less that 200. If you want any more info, Steve Langasek and Andreas Barth (the relase managers) are making updates on planet[0]. Here is a URL[1] to a png of the rc bug count. Cheers, Kev [0] http://planet.debian.org [1] http://people.debian.org/~sesse/bugscan/ -- | .''`. == Debian GNU/Linux == | my web site: | | : :' : The Universal | debian.home.pipeline.com | | `. `' Operating System| go to counter.li.org and | | `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656 | | my keysever: pgp.mit.edu | my NPO: cfsg.org | signature.asc Description: Digital signature
