Re: Great Debian experience
On Wed, 26 Mar 2014 20:46:06 -0400 (EDT), Steve Litt wrote: ... I should probably explain my propensity to install a base system, get it running, and then use the package manager to add the rest. It comes from long years of usage of Red Hat, Caldera, Mandrake/Mandriva, and Ubuntu. On those distros, there was the very real possibility that installation would stall or produce a nonbootable system. ... Understood. -- .''`. Stephen Powell : :' : `. `'` `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1315195853.538631.1395969759336.javamail.r...@md01.wow.synacor.com
Re: Great Debian experience
On Wed, 19 Mar 2014 07:25:44 -0400 (EDT) Stephen Powell zlinux...@wowway.com wrote: On Tue, 18 Mar 2014 14:31:46 -0400 (EDT), Steve Litt wrote: ... I also unchecked the Debian Desktop selection. ... Then I did the following: apt-get install xfce4 xfce4-goodies apt-get install synaptic apt-get install iceweasel ... I realize that this is too late for this install, but maybe it will help you next time. Also, maybe it will help someone else. Try this. When you get the initial boot screen from the Debian installer, press F1 for help, then at the boot prompt type: expert desktop=xfce and press Enter. Do *not* uncheck the desktop selection in the tasksel menu during installation. The installer will install the xfce desktop. There's more than one way to do this, but this may be the quickest way. You can also add whatever other Debian installer options, kernel boot parameters, or environment variable values that you want to use on this line. Thanks Stephen! I'll recommend this to people. If and when I change my style of booting to CLI and then typing startx, this is the way I'll do it myself. I should probably explain my propensity to install a base system, get it running, and then use the package manager to add the rest. It comes from long years of usage of Red Hat, Caldera, Mandrake/Mandriva, and Ubuntu. On those distros, there was the very real possibility that installation would stall or produce a nonbootable system. So what I always do is install a non-X system with little but ssh server added to the defaults, get that installed, and then, from a nice, stable OS, use the package manager for the rest. This level of paranoia might not be necessary with Debian, but I don't yet completely trust its installation procedure. Relatedly, this past experience of hanging installations is one reason I greatly prefer CLI or nCurses installations to GUI ones. CLI installs are more likely to complete, and are MUCH more likely to install on a resource starved machine. I recently installed Debian, via the network install, on a machine with 128MB of RAM. No other complete Linux that I tried would go that low. Thanks, and I'll always keep F1 and then expert desktop=xfce in mind. SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140326204606.7e29c305@mydesk
Re: Great Debian experience
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2014-03-22 02:30, Patrick Bartek wrote: On Fri, 21 Mar 2014, Ken Heard wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2014-03-21 00:30, Patrick Bartek wrote: On Thu, 20 Mar 2014, Ken Heard wrote: [snip] I never did get LVM going on top of RAID1. Since I had to use an mini-ITX box there would not be room in it for more than the two hard drives already there and used for the RAID1. I consequently made a virtue out of necessity by deciding that I did not need LVM. If ever I need more hard drive space it will have to be external. I'm curious. Why would you want to use LVM with such a set up? Seems pointless. Not advantageous. For a non-server situation. Even if you do add additional hard drives (externally), they can be mounted and used effectively by conventional means. As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, I made a virtue out of necessity and convinced myself that I did not really need it. If ever I need to expand hard drive capacity I will do what you suggest in your last sentence. Maybe, this link will help do what you originally wanted to. It's for a 3 hard drive RAID though which might be more helpful in the long run. https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Software_RAID_and_LVM I'm sure there's a Debian HOWTO for the same thing, but the Arch Linux wikis are more detailed and thorough, and fairly generic. As I had already explained in an earlier post, the one marked above with the 4 pointers -- -- I determined that for this particular installation I could do without LVM. I will however need it in another installation; so for that one I am looking for more information. Thanks for the tip. By the way I agree with you about the Archlinux wikis; I have found them on the whole better than most other documentation, including some of Debian's. Regards, Ken -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlMtt58ACgkQlNlJzOkJmTcRvwCeMmkamk3KrjPnsAdvrPivO++l sxEAn1tDV+iF2cFCl14nC3qGDWXtXizl =lO8O -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/532db79f.4000...@teksavvy.com
Re: Great Debian experience
On Friday 21 March 2014 04:29:25 Ken Heard wrote: I discovered just a few minutes ago (c. 11:00 2014-03-21 Friday where I am) that the latest kernel in wheezy-backports is 3.13.0.bpo1-amd64 Thanks for the heads up Ken. Have just run full-upgrade. Though I will have ot resatrt to change kernel! Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201403210800.29789.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Great Debian experience
On Friday 21 March 2014 05:06:52 Andrei POPESCU wrote: However, if you are running amd64 (64 bit) instead of i386 (32 bit) those kernels will not be available for you to install via apt-get. I get them via aptitude on Wheezy. I initially installed the backported kernel (new hardware), and now aptitude updates and upgrades the kernel from backports. Though it doesn't seem to do so on my husband's computer. Also Wheezy with backported kernel, but a new installation. Mine was an upgrade from Squeeze, and I must have something left over that I have forgotten about. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201403210810.44463.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Great Debian experience
On Vi, 21 mar 14, 08:10:44, Lisi Reisz wrote: On Friday 21 March 2014 05:06:52 Andrei POPESCU wrote: However, if you are running amd64 (64 bit) instead of i386 (32 bit) those kernels will not be available for you to install via apt-get. I get them via aptitude on Wheezy. I initially installed the backported kernel (new hardware), and now aptitude updates and upgrades the kernel from backports. Though it doesn't seem to do so on my husband's computer. Also Wheezy with backported kernel, but a new installation. Mine was an upgrade from Squeeze, and I must have something left over that I have forgotten about. You can post the output of apt-cache policy (sorry, I don't know of any aptitude equivalent) aptitude search ~nlinux-image if you want help with the investigation. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Great Debian experience
Le 19.03.2014 15:03, Lisi Reisz a écrit : On Wednesday 19 March 2014 11:25:44 Stephen Powell wrote: On Tue, 18 Mar 2014 14:31:46 -0400 (EDT), Steve Litt wrote: ... I also unchecked the Debian Desktop selection. ... Then I did the following: apt-get install xfce4 xfce4-goodies apt-get install synaptic apt-get install iceweasel ... I realize that this is too late for this install, but maybe it will help you next time. Also, maybe it will help someone else. Try this. When you get the initial boot screen from the Debian installer, press F1 for help, then at the boot prompt type: expert desktop=xfce and press Enter. Do *not* uncheck the desktop selection in the tasksel menu during installation. The installer will install the xfce desktop. There's more than one way to do this Choosing XFCE from the beginning has already been suggested.I suggested choosing expert install and then choosing XFCE before being taken back to the ordinary installation. This also has the advantage that you don't have to type startx every time you log in, because you get a desktop manager. But one does not need a desktop manager to not have to type startx. A few lines in the good file does the same: $cat ~/.bash_profile if [ -z $DISPLAY ] [ `tty` == /dev/tty1 ] then startx fi ( ~/.profile also works, if you do not have the .bash_profile) Those lines are pretty useful, in my opinion. If you only need the computer for a quick task ( or to not start xorg, it happens ), just go to a different TTY, xorg won't be started ( and so things will be faster ). But since you probably want xorg most of the time... it will be started automatically each time you log with your regular user on TTY1 ;) In my opinion, this script saves a lot of kitten's lives by making systems less bloated :) ( ok, the thing it can not do, is starting automatically your session. but it could probably be made with some /etc/inittab tinkering. For example, adding -a myuser to a getty. ) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/13be18bb1f03c96a267c9b050bb93...@neutralite.org
Re: Great Debian experience
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 03/21/2014 12:43 AM, Ken Heard wrote: On 2014-03-21 00:30, Patrick Bartek wrote: On Thu, 20 Mar 2014, Ken Heard wrote: [snip] I never did get LVM going on top of RAID1. Since I had to use an mini-ITX box there would not be room in it for more than the two hard drives already there and used for the RAID1. I consequently made a virtue out of necessity by deciding that I did not need LVM. If ever I need more hard drive space it will have to be external. I'm curious. Why would you want to use LVM with such a set up? Seems pointless. Not advantageous. For a non-server situation. Even if you do add additional hard drives (externally), they can be mounted and used effectively by conventional means. As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, I made a virtue out of necessity and convinced myself that I did not really need it. If ever I need to expand hard drive capacity I will do what you suggest in your last sentence. FWIW, I have LVM working on top of two RAID arrays (one RAID-1, the other RAID-5) in my current system, set up through the partition configurator in the Debian installer - and the only issue I remember having was with getting GRUB installed to the appropriate drives to let things boot properly. Admittedly dealing with that part did take manual intervention, quite a bit of headache, and at least three full passes through the installer (which takes a while, when each pass involves mkfs.ext4 on an over-6TB volume), and I don't quite remember how I did it anymore... but the result certainly works. (This was with at most the current-stable and I think even perhaps the current-oldstable installer, FWIW. For all I know, things may work better in current testing.) - -- The Wanderer Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny. A government exists to serve its citizens, not to control them. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJTLDqGAAoJEASpNY00KDJrFlYP/jZg/8Rthu/b0I3/s8Vv+Jov qZqotaLaIJaOTYnJCq9ntoIGXfQiapN3cD2I/bQQ/vo7YKQFIqiSmLNzzfvBvj5J F46MWQueduv5jYrJy/KFDab/YkSpN5l9HzsfM19W+L4SnXmKkQZTRg4LBlyL0uxv +8csWrOlfodnkRlgPUn3pTfYJbU/rLTQAbubISr7akoPkRxNg6K44qDPU7emhMSV QSl3pNiAo7s1Yo5qJAqZAlSVOxB3fvOjsGj9Y3PKv+rL72x4NHJaI2knta+WbWgQ TYJlMRduj6DPZM2OFdKLyyLDgd+ZZx7gUtphWPV40xYADO9AH1w8N5lD1OqHyCB+ dowikh1AViPPV3/5+V2nhPjr85LfhihqSsCYmhW7QG/2VeZwFGFU78KxbA+h0/jo jUefQEB9U1hG/PY/k9+x7RBX6n0kRurZ0BMxoRniipSXW+tSKh+PtK1FxlVIOoXr rYB5C3itACIDuNWWmjY9b43CtanjjXaBLwtwZjt/saWLvOb2DcBfpGn4hUoclf2F SJ40a6h0Zf/kImxuOWcv6Ouf5UU9xHgU6xm2HdFcZAfhTnj3DnbHtjpw6ZaxkD2V 5z75wTNTnVLmTwb2qU2A++bv9cy3mYv4buxY6eQu3b2cJnVlwwcb22Vo4prE5nBe 3tm+nX96S6GlHW5uvsl0 =FAYz -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/532c3a86.2000...@fastmail.fm
Re: Great Debian experience
On Fri, 21 Mar 2014, Ken Heard wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2014-03-21 00:30, Patrick Bartek wrote: On Thu, 20 Mar 2014, Ken Heard wrote: [snip] I never did get LVM going on top of RAID1. Since I had to use an mini-ITX box there would not be room in it for more than the two hard drives already there and used for the RAID1. I consequently made a virtue out of necessity by deciding that I did not need LVM. If ever I need more hard drive space it will have to be external. I'm curious. Why would you want to use LVM with such a set up? Seems pointless. Not advantageous. For a non-server situation. Even if you do add additional hard drives (externally), they can be mounted and used effectively by conventional means. As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, I made a virtue out of necessity and convinced myself that I did not really need it. If ever I need to expand hard drive capacity I will do what you suggest in your last sentence. Maybe, this link will help do what you originally wanted to. It's for a 3 hard drive RAID though which might be more helpful in the long run. https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Software_RAID_and_LVM I'm sure there's a Debian HOWTO for the same thing, but the Arch Linux wikis are more detailed and thorough, and fairly generic. Good luck. B -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140321123031.48ecd...@debian7.boseck208.net
Re: Great Debian experience
Am 19.03.2014 um 15:32 schrieb Ken Heard kensli...@teksavvy.com: My latest experience was a new installation of Wheezy in a new box. It took me the entire month of January to get the OS and essential applications to the point where the machine became usable. Yes it works, but so does a Ford model T. For example I wanted to use LVM but the attempt broke the installer. I still have not got sound working. So what is the secret? Don’t know. Maybe you are thinking too complicated. The only things I need to care usually are - maybe the installation needs firmware-nonfree - choosing German keyboard - choosing en-utf8 Desktops and laptops get whole disk or whole free space. Development servers get RAID-1, LVM, XEN. Production servers get RAID-1(0), LVM, DRBD, XEN. Then I always do only a base install in the first step. In the second step I choose a desktop environment (Gnome, or now back to KDE). Usually everything (sound, wifi, trackpad etc.) works out of the box. My smallest Debian box is a creditcard sized RaspberryPi, my largest a 2 node cluster, each node having 16 cores, 32 GB, and many VMs on it. Helmut Wollmersdorfer -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/8780b2e7-c164-4ff9-97c7-73c367b58...@fixpunkt.de
Re: Great Debian experience
Helmut Wollmersdorfer writes: Desktops and laptops get whole disk or whole free space. I admit that a common user could not be able to benefit from LVM, but keeping at least system software on one partitions and homes on another could ease distribution reinstallations. -- /\ ___Ubuntu: ancient /___/\_|_|\_|__|___Gian Uberto Lauri_ African word //--\| | \| | Integralista GNUslamicomeaning I can \/ coltivatore diretto di software not install già sistemista a tempo (altrui) perso...Debian Warning: gnome-config-daemon considered more dangerous than GOTO -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/21290.44400.215865.134...@mail.eng.it
Re: Great Debian experience
On Thursday 20 March 2014 00:12:53 Charles Kroeger wrote: I'm awfully American but I once lived in your country for many enjoyable years. Tell me this, are you English Scottish Welsh Northern Irish or just British I'm a European British English Cockney. Well, I would be if the Germans hadn't knocked Bow Bells down. ;-) Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201403200917.47407.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Great Debian experience
On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Zenaan Harkness z...@freedbms.net wrote: On 3/20/14, Patrick Bartek bartek...@yahoo.com wrote: Here's some guidelines to reduce install/run problems. 2. Motherboard and graphic card chips can be a problem in general, new or old. I try to stick with nVidia, Realtek and AMD. I avoid Intel and Broadcom, particularly the newest chips. Older ones are less a problem. I don't have experience with desktops/servers, but on laptops (at least Lenovo), Intel is a fine option, and in my experience mostly just works. Of course, YMMV. 4. Stick with manufacturers who overtly support Linux. Which certainly includes Intel (these days) in a pretty big way! Sort of. I find Intel's dual personality a little, should I say, worrisome? Intel's track record on support is good in obvious areas, not so great in less obvious areas, and, well, less-than-helpful in the areas that are shaping up to be tomorrow's battlefields in the intellectual paucity wars. Near as I can tell. -- Joel Rees Be careful where you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart.
Re: d-i LVM bugs and sound [Re: Great Debian experience]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2014-03-19 22:31, Don Armstrong wrote: On Wed, 19 Mar 2014, Ken Heard wrote: My latest experience was a new installation of Wheezy in a new box. It took me the entire month of January to get the OS and essential applications to the point where the machine became usable. Yes it works, but so does a Ford model T. For example I wanted to use LVM but the attempt broke the installer. I still have not got sound working. In both of these cases, please either 1) File bugs if you can reproduce the problem and get a sensible error message and a bug isn't already reported. 2) If you cannot, ask here or in some other forum so people can help you get the bug into a state where it can be reported. If you have reported them, and no one has been able to solve it or responded, then please point to the bug/threads, and I or someone else may take a look. Debian doesn't have the resources (people or money) to exhaustively test every single combination of hardware and install type; we do our best, but in the end, if you want it supported, Debian needs your help. All very good points, and I do understand how the system works and does need input from ordinary users. But my personal resources are limited as well. I stopped working on the problems I encountered because in the short run I did not have time. I had work to do and deadlines to meet. So I left out all the multimedia stuff and other frills and with difficulty got working the basic wheezy operating system plus X.org and kde-trinity, which I have been using since squeeze and find better than XFCE or LXDE (I gave up mainstream KDE when 4 came out), the ices (dove and weasel), seamonkey for the html composer now that iceape in not in squeeze, libreoffice and gnucash. With the foregoing I can do what need to do to keep my head above water for the foreseeable future. Later, if, as and when I have what I call unproductive time, i.e, time not required to look after my own financial and other interests, such as reporting some of the problems I encountered starting with an installation report. Regards, Ken -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlMq2v4ACgkQlNlJzOkJmTdC/gCdHjHYlzrdLRAXGs22t/G5jp1v lJIAnjI+QGn6LfRhALaWLi9yBqeBIH7R =1lQB -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/532adafe.1060...@teksavvy.com
Re: Great Debian experience
On 20/03/14 22:29, Joel Rees wrote: On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Zenaan Harkness z...@freedbms.net mailto:z...@freedbms.net wrote: On 3/20/14, Patrick Bartek bartek...@yahoo.com mailto:bartek...@yahoo.com wrote: Here's some guidelines to reduce install/run problems. 2. Motherboard and graphic card chips can be a problem in general, new or old. I try to stick with nVidia, Realtek and AMD. I avoid Intel and Broadcom, particularly the newest chips. Older ones are less a problem. nVidia don't have a great track record of working with Linux - that is changing though (thanks Steam). I don't have experience with desktops/servers, but on laptops (at least Lenovo), Intel is a fine option, and in my experience mostly just works. Of course, YMMV. I've often wondered if that's because so much of their income comes from whiteboards rather than altruism. 4. Stick with manufacturers who overtly support Linux. Support manufacturers who support Linux - by releasing the source code to their hardware? (many of the major companies sponsor Linux development - and even so they *don't* release the source code to their hardware) Buy hardware that's known to be supported by Linux. e.g. do a quick Google for linux $hardware and look for posts asking for help - a scarcity of such request generally indicates support. Avoid buying cutting edge hardware (it's an uncomfortable place to sit). As has elsewhere been noted - it (generally) takes a few years for Linux to support hardware (time from itch to scratch?). The other benefit is that by the time you buy that hardware most of the glitches will have become apparent and fixed e.g. mb revisions, BIOS updates. I try and buy boards I know are supported by Coreboot. Often the gains from buying the latest hardware are negligible. One of the advantages of Linux over commercial OS is that it leverages more from older hardware. Which certainly includes Intel (these days) in a pretty big way! Increasingly hardware manufacturers are having to listen to software developers. Steam and other game companies, and the decline of M$'s influence are changing the status quo. nVidia is an example. Sort of. I find Intel's dual personality a little, should I say, worrisome? Intel's track record on support is good in obvious areas, not so great in less obvious areas, and, well, less-than-helpful in the areas that are shaping up to be tomorrow's battlefields in the intellectual paucity wars. wars of over the paucity of intellectual property?(?) Near as I can tell. FWIW I agree. -- Joel Rees Be careful where you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart. Kind regards -- The most important thing in the programming language is the name. A language will not succeed without a good name. I have recently invented a very good name and now I am looking for a suitable language. ~ Dr. Donald Knuth -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/532ade80.6020...@gmail.com
Re: Great Debian experience
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2014-03-19 23:02, Steve Litt of Troubleshooters.Com wrote: I have a specific set of secrets: * Use the network installer, Did CLI (ncurses) mode, Was not sure what these were but discovered that I did use CLI but not ncurses. Expert Install Did * But mostly choose the defaults Did * Install the Stable version Did * Tell it to include the nonfree repos Did not, but ending up installing the ones I needed anyway. * Install a very small system working, then use apt-get to expand ..I don't even install X during the install After trying to do it all at once, as I had done for sarge, etch, lenny and squeeze, I did as you now suggest, getting an CLI system working then adding the rest in succession. Doing so took the majority of the time because various combinations would not work together, such as LVM on top of RAID1. Each one would work alone but not together. Trying them together broke the installer. If I have time I will describe this problem in an installation report. * Use a robust, lightweight desktop like Xfce, LXDE, or Openbox Ended up with kde-trinity which I have been using since squeeze. It is not perfect, but what is? * Install networkmanager. I'm no longer man enough to use wpasupplicant or iwconfig wicd was good enough. In the one and only box so far where I have wheezy I do not need wireless. * Early, install synaptic. Much easier than CLI apt-cache search. Didn't bother. Have been using apt-cache and the other apts. I am used to them so why change? * Don't use brand new hardware. Here I did not have any choice. This wheezy was in a new computer and I had to go with what the suppliers import into Thailand. The parts I acquired would not have been my first choice. Components in the box are: Gigabyte GA-Z87Z-WIFI, Intel i5-4670K processor with integrated GPU, 2 Corsair DDR3 Non-EEC CL9 DIMM (2x4GB) which I hope will be enough, 2 Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 2TB SATA 6Gbs 6200RMP 64mb cache for RAID1, which I also hope will be enough, and a Thermaltake 650W gold power supply. This setup had features which I do not expect ever to use such as overclocking and built in wireless for peripherals and connection to the ISP. Because of space restrictions I needed a mini-itx board; that Gigabyte one was the only one available. All these parts fit in a Lian-Li mini-itx case. I looked at off-the-shelf computers, but I was not impressed. One thing about Thailand though, Microsoft cannot coerce suppliers to use their operating systems (and pay for them). Off the shelf computers here will have either no operating system at all, freedos, or linux. I saw some with slackware and ubuntu. If you really are stupid enough to want Microsoft and you are an international company you are pretty well forced to buy it. If you are an ordinary person and want it, you use a bootleg copy. Consequently open source has a higher market share here than in more sophisticated parts of the world. About that last point: The next time I get new hardware, I'll try Debian Stable first, but if the hardware is newer than the drivers in Debian Stable, I'll use Xubuntu, and then a year later go to Debian Stable. I think having new hardware newer than available drivers probably did contribute to some of my problems. I did not however want to try something new like one of the buntus, even though they are based on Debian; so I stuck with wheezy. I did find that using a kernel from wheezy-backports, linux-image-3.10-0.bpo.3-amd64, seemed to make a difference. Regards, Ken -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlMq7h0ACgkQlNlJzOkJmTe8nACdFFH6uZvG1z91doArnFddKXb4 NEoAnR8mPRQUQ0yZJWEsUe4QM1dlQL6o =O8DY -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/532aee1d.4010...@teksavvy.com
Re: Great Debian experience
Hi, Ken, On Thursday 20 March 2014 13:33:17 Ken Heard wrote: I think having new hardware newer than available drivers probably did contribute to some of my problems. I did not however want to try something new like one of the buntus, even though they are based on Debian; so I stuck with wheezy. I did find that using a kernel from wheezy-backports, linux-image-3.10-0.bpo.3-amd64, seemed to make a difference. I have Wheezy 7.4, Trinity 3.5.13.2 and a backported kernel, currently 3.12-0.bpo.1-amd64. I have done nothing special - just updated and upgraded fairly often. Would this newer kernel perhaps solve some of your other problems? I recently installed Wheezy with Trinity for a client in under an hour. But it was very straightforward and a fast internet connection helped. If you got Raid and LVM going, I think that multimedia, always problematic, is almost just a frill. ;-) Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201403201419.16838.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Great Debian experience
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2014-03-20 21:19, Lisi Reisz wrote: I have Wheezy 7.4, Trinity 3.5.13.2 and a backported kernel, currently 3.12-0.bpo.1-amd64. I have done nothing special - just updated and upgraded fairly often. Would this newer kernel perhaps solve some of your other problems? Aha! Last January when I was installing the OS the stock kernel was linux-image-3.2.0-4-amd64; so that one got installed by the installer. At that time the newest kernel available on wheezy-backports was 3.10-0.bpo.3-amd64, which I installed as soon as I could after getting a working OS, but before X.org and trinity 3.5.13.2. Since reading your post I discovered that the latest kernel now available is 3.12-0.bpo.1-amd64 which I will now install. There are other kernels mentioned in wheezy-backports labelled pae. Since I don't know what that means I will avoid them. Thanks for the tip. I recently installed Wheezy with Trinity for a client in under an hour. But it was very straightforward and a fast internet connection helped. If you got Raid and LVM going, I think that multimedia, always problematic, is almost just a frill. ;-) I never did get LVM going on top of RAID1. Since I had to use an mini-ITX box there would not be room in it for more than the two hard drives already there and used for the RAID1. I consequently made a virtue out of necessity by deciding that I did not need LVM. If ever I need more hard drive space it will have to be external. I now know that a few of my problems were the result of switching from 32 to 64 bit, the first time for me with 64 bit. I also seem to remember that about a year ago you had trouble activating sound in your machine. I will work on that problem when I have time. Regards, Ken -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlMrAG0ACgkQlNlJzOkJmTcefgCeMmh/+sLDWyXy7dcDtI13RbKk vWUAnRU8yMZe49FZdckrdUzscKQFvs7I =QDt8 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/532b006d.8070...@teksavvy.com
Re: Great Debian experience
On Thursday 20 March 2014 14:51:25 Ken Heard wrote: I also seem to remember that about a year ago you had trouble activating sound in your machine. I will work on that problem when I have time. Yes. :-( And my husband's sound is still not working - he only wanted it for the first time the other day. In life, nothing is perfect. You pays your money and you takes your choice. The OS that I find best for me is Debian. But it isn't perfect. I always have problems with sound. I think it must be me. :-( I am woefully ignorant about mixers and things, which is, I think, a large part of the trouble. Cheers, Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201403201512.31956.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Great Debian experience
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2014-03-20 22:12, Lisi Reisz wrote: On Thursday 20 March 2014 14:51:25 Ken Heard wrote: I also seem to remember that about a year ago you had trouble activating sound in your machine. I will work on that problem when I have time. Yes. :-( And my husband's sound is still not working - he only wanted it for the first time the other day. In life, nothing is perfect. You pays your money and you takes your choice. The OS that I find best for me is Debian. But it isn't perfect. I always have problems with sound. I think it must be me. :-( I am woefully ignorant about mixers and things, which is, I think, a large part of the trouble. No, it is not just you. It is I as well, and I am sure many other people have the same problem with multimedia in general and sound in particular. As I said in my original post Debian is imperfect, in some functions woefully so; but it is less imperfect than the alternatives. I usually judge such things from a negative perspective. Regards, Ken -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlMrD6oACgkQlNlJzOkJmTcyIACfWWuInR0DTVb0GzmtLEpRnc0R j2IAmgKMe3stPaOtLE4MuKXa+GYXhni/ =goi5 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/532b0faa.8000...@teksavvy.com
Re: Great Debian experience
On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 09:51:25PM +0700, Ken Heard wrote: Since reading your post I discovered that the latest kernel now available is 3.12-0.bpo.1-amd64 which I will now install. There are other kernels mentioned in wheezy-backports labelled pae. Since I don't know what that means I will avoid them. Thanks for the tip. PAE stands for Physical Address Extension, it's a 32-bit extension to allow access to memory beyond 4gig. Since you are running 64-bit you don't need it anyway. Cheers, Tom -- * Simunye is on a oc3-oc12 daem0n simmy: bite me. :) Simunye daemon: okay :) signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Great Debian experience
On Thu, 20 Mar 2014, Ken Heard wrote: [snip] I never did get LVM going on top of RAID1. Since I had to use an mini-ITX box there would not be room in it for more than the two hard drives already there and used for the RAID1. I consequently made a virtue out of necessity by deciding that I did not need LVM. If ever I need more hard drive space it will have to be external. I'm curious. Why would you want to use LVM with such a set up? Seems pointless. Not advantageous. For a non-server situation. Even if you do add additional hard drives (externally), they can be mounted and used effectively by conventional means. B -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140320103013.0f094...@debian7.boseck208.net
Re: Great Debian experience
On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 2:30 AM, Patrick Bartek bartek...@yahoo.com wrote: On Thu, 20 Mar 2014, Ken Heard wrote: [snip] I never did get LVM going on top of RAID1. Since I had to use an mini-ITX box there would not be room in it for more than the two hard drives already there and used for the RAID1. I consequently made a virtue out of necessity by deciding that I did not need LVM. If ever I need more hard drive space it will have to be external. I'm curious. Why would you want to use LVM with such a set up? Seems pointless. Not advantageous. For a non-server situation. Even if you do add additional hard drives (externally), they can be mounted and used effectively by conventional means. Am I missing something here? When I dig into my LVM setup, I note that much of the LVM functionality seems to be oriented to providing RAID-like functionality. Would that explain why people don't seem to be using LVM together with the non-LVM RAID packages? This probably is tangled up in the hardware RAID vs. software RAID argument? -- Joel Rees Be careful where you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart.
Re: Great Debian experience
On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 03:12:12AM +0900, Joel Rees wrote: Am I missing something here? When I dig into my LVM setup, I note that much of the LVM functionality seems to be oriented to providing RAID-like functionality. Would that explain why people don't seem to be using LVM together with the non-LVM RAID packages? Hardly. mdadm (aka Linux software RAID) was introduced in 2001, matured quickly, and is rock-stable last 10 years. LVM2's RAID implementation was added, like, 3-4 years ago (RHEL6 was first to introduce it IIRC), and it still has its' share of bugs, such as: http://www.redhat.com/archives/linux-lvm/2012-July/msg00015.html For me, the whole point of RAID (barring RAID0, of course), is to protect one from the hard drive failure. If RAID implementation fails to achieve such goal - said RAID implementation is useless. Reco -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140320185220.GB14792@x101h
Re: Great Debian experience
On Thu, 20 Mar 2014 20:33:17 +0700 Ken Heard kensli...@teksavvy.com wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2014-03-19 23:02, Steve Litt of Troubleshooters.Com wrote: * Tell it to include the nonfree repos Did not, but ending up installing the ones I needed anyway. Hi Ken, Humor me... Unless you have a similar objection to nonfree software that Stallman has, just for fun tell it to install nonfree at installation time. For one thing, it makes things more just works, which is how the thread started, but also, it's remotely possible you *didn't* install that one nonfree software that would have made LVM work with your brand new hardware. That sounds bizarre, but might be possible. Example... Back in the day, Mandriva Linux came with a free Broadcom driver and the nonfree. The free driver flat out didn't work, and if it was installed, you had to disable it or it would deep-six the nonfree driver that *did* work. Thanks very much for the wicd tip. When I'm not using Xfce, I'm using Openbox, and nm-applet doesn't show up in Openbox, so I'm always looking for another way of handling networks, beyond ifup and wpa-supplicant. SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140320173029.53733971@mydesk
Re: Great Debian experience
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2014-03-20 21:51, Ken Heard wrote: On 2014-03-20 21:19, Lisi Reisz wrote: I have Wheezy 7.4, Trinity 3.5.13.2 and a backported kernel, currently 3.12-0.bpo.1-amd64. I have done nothing special - just updated and upgraded fairly often. Would this newer kernel perhaps solve some of your other problems? Aha! Last January when I was installing the OS the stock kernel was linux-image-3.2.0-4-amd64; so that one got installed by the installer. At that time the newest kernel available on wheezy-backports was 3.10-0.bpo.3-amd64, which I installed as soon as I could after getting a working OS, but before X.org and trinity 3.5.13.2. Since reading your post I discovered that the latest kernel now available is 3.12-0.bpo.1-amd64 which I will now install. There are other kernels mentioned in wheezy-backports labelled pae. Since I don't know what that means I will avoid them. Thanks for the tip. I discovered just a few minutes ago (c. 11:00 2014-03-21 Friday where I am) that the latest kernel in wheezy-backports is 3.13.0.bpo1-amd64. I installed and am using it now -- no problems with is so far. Regards, Ken -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlMrwCUACgkQlNlJzOkJmTcPhwCePlFGKKA9FDzudsUgSNn2bx3B t1MAn0+R86ojceHuv6XyQW0SpJ5QG0oA =vX/Z -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/532bc025.40...@teksavvy.com
Re: Great Debian experience
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2014-03-21 00:30, Patrick Bartek wrote: On Thu, 20 Mar 2014, Ken Heard wrote: [snip] I never did get LVM going on top of RAID1. Since I had to use an mini-ITX box there would not be room in it for more than the two hard drives already there and used for the RAID1. I consequently made a virtue out of necessity by deciding that I did not need LVM. If ever I need more hard drive space it will have to be external. I'm curious. Why would you want to use LVM with such a set up? Seems pointless. Not advantageous. For a non-server situation. Even if you do add additional hard drives (externally), they can be mounted and used effectively by conventional means. As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, I made a virtue out of necessity and convinced myself that I did not really need it. If ever I need to expand hard drive capacity I will do what you suggest in your last sentence. Regards, Ken -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlMrw3YACgkQlNlJzOkJmTdYlwCeI3fJFqSY1gyxvyvu+8vAe75O +j8An19RfJJsuE1jqNfyYF+TJMD1auus =ZXVi -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/532bc376.5090...@teksavvy.com
Re: Great Debian experience
On Jo, 20 mar 14, 21:51:25, Ken Heard wrote: Since reading your post I discovered that the latest kernel now available is 3.12-0.bpo.1-amd64 which I will now install. There are other kernels mentioned in wheezy-backports labelled pae. Since I don't know what that means I will avoid them. Thanks for the tip. What do you mean by mentioned in wheezy-backports? If you mean packages.debian.org, then yes, they will be displayed. However, if you are running amd64 (64 bit) instead of i386 (32 bit) those kernels will not be available for you to install via apt-get. If you are running i386 then, depending on your processor, you have a choice of three kernel flavours: -486: for older processors, 32 bit -686-pae: for newer processors, 32 bit -amd64: 64 bit You should normally run the kernel closest to your processor's capabilities, unless you have specific issues (e.g. last time I tried it virtualbox on i386 didn't run on the amd64 kernel). Hope this explains, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Great Debian experience
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2014-03-21 04:30, Steve Litt of Troubleshooters.Com wrote: On Thu, 20 Mar 2014 20:33:17 +0700 Ken Heard kensli...@teksavvy.com wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2014-03-19 23:02, Steve Litt of Troubleshooters.Com wrote: * Tell it to include the nonfree repos Did not, but ending up installing the ones I needed anyway. Hi Ken, Humor me... Unless you have a similar objection to nonfree software that Stallman has, On this issue I am not a fanatic like Stallman, although I see his point. just for fun tell it to install nonfree at installation time. I am not sure how to do this. Is there an option to add to the install command line? If there is such an option would it add non-free to /etc/apt/sources.list? When I finished the installation I discovered that the non-free options were not in that file; so I added them manually. For one thing, it makes things more just works, which is how the thread started, but also, it's remotely possible you *didn't* install that one nonfree software that would have made LVM work with your brand new hardware. The one thing which the installer asked during installation process what whether I wanted to install firmware-iwlwifi so that the wireless feature of the mainboard to connect with wireless peripherals e,g, a mouse would work. Since I did not need this feature I did not install this package as part of the installation. Later on I did install it, if only to stop the boot process from asking for it every time I booted the machine. For good measure I also installed firmware-linux-free and firmware-linux-nonfree, without knowing for sure whether I needed them. That sounds bizarre, but might be possible. Example... Back in the day, Mandriva Linux came with a free Broadcom driver and the nonfree. The free driver flat out didn't work, and if it was installed, you had to disable it or it would deep-six the nonfree driver that *did* work. The Gigabyte GA-Z87N-WIFI motherboard I am using has two built-in RJ-45 ethernet cards, one Intel and the other Atheros. The Intel one worked out of the box, so to speak; but the Atheros one did not, probably because it requires a driver which is not installed. Could something like this prevent LVM from working? In any event when I tried to install LVM after installing RAID1 the installer failed to go any further and produced a screenful of error messages. These I will send in as part of the installation report if, as and when I get around to preparing it. Thanks very much for the wicd tip. When I'm not using Xfce, I'm using Openbox, and nm-applet doesn't show up in Openbox, so I'm always looking for another way of handling networks, beyond ifup and wpa-supplicant. My pleasure. I found wicd when I was using a laptop which had wireless capability. That Gigabyte mainboard also has such capability, but I am not using it. Regards, Ken -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlMrzhIACgkQlNlJzOkJmTeaowCeMvlASxM6tkQyYqavipoR5zNe 6MIAmgKRGtpfi7ed2DI6P6DNjDuRUuHq =bazs -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/532bce12.3020...@teksavvy.com
Re: Great Debian experience
On 21/03/14 16:28, Ken Heard wrote: On 2014-03-21 04:30, Steve Litt of Troubleshooters.Com wrote: On Thu, 20 Mar 2014 20:33:17 +0700 Ken Heard kensli...@teksavvy.com wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2014-03-19 23:02, Steve Litt of Troubleshooters.Com wrote: * Tell it to include the nonfree repos Did not, but ending up installing the ones I needed anyway. snipped just for fun tell it to install nonfree at installation time. I am not sure how to do this. Is there an option to add to the install command line? I don't believe so, (but I've never tested), preferring to add that option to preseed.cfg instead. The line in preseed.cfg is:- apt-mirror-setup apt-setup/non-free boolean true If there is such an option would it add non-free to /etc/apt/sources.list? Yes. (append to the main debian repostitory line). NOTE: you will also need to enable the contrib section of the repostitory. (packages needed by non-free). snipped Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/532bd441.7000...@gmail.com
Re: Great Debian experience
On Tue, 18 Mar 2014, Steve Litt wrote: Hi all, Here's why I like Debian Stable... My daughter's computer broke, so last night I took a three year, 3GB RAM, old wreck of a laptop and, using the Debian 7.4 network installer, installed Wheezy. I chose expert install, told it to install the nonfree repositories and auto-partition to a single partition plus swap. I also unchecked the Debian Desktop selection. Installation took about 20 minutes. Then I did the following: apt-get install xfce4 xfce4-goodies apt-get install synaptic apt-get install iceweasel I typed startx, had a perfectly functional desktop, and when I ran Iceweasel, ***YOUTUBE VIDEOS PLAYED PERFECTLY*** It took me about 20 minutes to figure out how to get network-manager working with my wifi (I had to reboot). Then I looked up instructions on how to install Skype, and after a little experimentation because the instructions weren't perfect, Skype was installed. I've been a happy Ubuntu/Xubuntu user for six years now, but I've gotta tell you, if I'd installed a Ubuntu variant, *something* wouldn't have worked. If I'd installed Arch or Gentoo, I'd probably still be installing. Armed with a glitchless version of Xfce, a rock solid version of Iceweasel, and works-every-time Wheezy, this is the perfect laptop. I have an even better testimonial for Debian 7. Installed Debian 7 LXDE (32-bit) on a EeePC 900 (900MHz Celeron/1GB RAM) replacing Eeebuntu 3.0 I installed on it 2 or 3 years before. The OS was past EOL and no longer supported which was causing software problems. In any case, I dd'd the ISO to a thumbdrive, booted and did a standard install with the Base, Desktop and Laptop options. Edited the repository list, updated, upgraded, installed Flash. Done. 30 minutes. Everything worked. Wireless. Function keys. Etc. Did have a problem finding the config file for it to sleep on lid closure, but that was it. Works great. Faster and smoother than Eeebuntu. B -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140318234229.34da8...@debian7.boseck208.net
Re: Great Debian experience
On Tue, 18 Mar 2014 14:31:46 -0400 (EDT), Steve Litt wrote: ... I also unchecked the Debian Desktop selection. ... Then I did the following: apt-get install xfce4 xfce4-goodies apt-get install synaptic apt-get install iceweasel ... I realize that this is too late for this install, but maybe it will help you next time. Also, maybe it will help someone else. Try this. When you get the initial boot screen from the Debian installer, press F1 for help, then at the boot prompt type: expert desktop=xfce and press Enter. Do *not* uncheck the desktop selection in the tasksel menu during installation. The installer will install the xfce desktop. There's more than one way to do this, but this may be the quickest way. You can also add whatever other Debian installer options, kernel boot parameters, or environment variable values that you want to use on this line. -- .''`. Stephen Powell : :' : `. `'` `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/131273824.395643.1395228344804.javamail.r...@md01.wow.synacor.com
Re: Great Debian experience
On Wednesday 19 March 2014 11:25:44 Stephen Powell wrote: On Tue, 18 Mar 2014 14:31:46 -0400 (EDT), Steve Litt wrote: ... I also unchecked the Debian Desktop selection. ... Then I did the following: apt-get install xfce4 xfce4-goodies apt-get install synaptic apt-get install iceweasel ... I realize that this is too late for this install, but maybe it will help you next time. Also, maybe it will help someone else. Try this. When you get the initial boot screen from the Debian installer, press F1 for help, then at the boot prompt type: expert desktop=xfce and press Enter. Do *not* uncheck the desktop selection in the tasksel menu during installation. The installer will install the xfce desktop. There's more than one way to do this Choosing XFCE from the beginning has already been suggested.I suggested choosing expert install and then choosing XFCE before being taken back to the ordinary installation. This also has the advantage that you don't have to type startx every time you log in, because you get a desktop manager. But Steve, like many of us, prefers his own method. Well, if we weren't all individualistic rebels we wouldn't be here. We would be keeping company with the fenestral hordes. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201403191403.03354.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Great Debian experience
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 It never ceases to amaze me that there are people can get various iterations of Debian working out of the box. Ever since Sarge I have had no end of trouble either with new installations or upgrades, to the point that I dread every new iteration. I would have switched long ago to another operating system except for the fact that every other one I looked at was worse. My latest experience was a new installation of Wheezy in a new box. It took me the entire month of January to get the OS and essential applications to the point where the machine became usable. Yes it works, but so does a Ford model T. For example I wanted to use LVM but the attempt broke the installer. I still have not got sound working. So what is the secret? Ken Heard -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlMpqmoACgkQlNlJzOkJmTfYTQCeMURzgZwH+ZneSHN1sZh/pwxH 41gAoIAeHN9SgGn6Sjmf+mVYrxGfRDfb =jTOU -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5329aa6a.1000...@teksavvy.com
Re: Great Debian experience
On Wednesday, March 19, 2014 10:32:10 Ken Heard wrote: It never ceases to amaze me that there are people can get various iterations of Debian working out of the box. Ever since Sarge I have had no end of trouble either with new installations or upgrades, to the point that I dread every new iteration. I would have switched long ago to another operating system except for the fact that every other one I looked at was worse. My latest experience was a new installation of Wheezy in a new box. It took me the entire month of January to get the OS and essential applications to the point where the machine became usable. Yes it works, but so does a Ford model T. For example I wanted to use LVM but the attempt broke the installer. I still have not got sound working. So what is the secret? Ken Heard I don't know Ken. I came over to Debian from Ubuntu. The last Ubuntu release that I consider good was 8.04. I went over to Squeeze before Wheexy became stable. The only hassle I had was with the Broadcomm wireless drivers. When I updated to wheezy, again the only hassle was with the wireless drivers. That took about an hour. I use the KDE desktop. Amarok is crap in Wheezy, so I use Clementine. I use the system for at least twelve hours a day, and except for having to restart the display manager every few days to keep Clementine from getting pissy there have been no problems. For the record, I have a Dell Inspiron 1545 laptop with 4G of memory, Debian GNU/Linux 7.4 (wheezy). Mike -- Mike McGinn KD2CNU Ex Uno Plurima No electrons were harmed in sending this message, some were inconvenienced. ** Registered Linux User 377849 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201403191114.45699.mikemcg...@mcginnweb.net
d-i LVM bugs and sound [Re: Great Debian experience]
On Wed, 19 Mar 2014, Ken Heard wrote: My latest experience was a new installation of Wheezy in a new box. It took me the entire month of January to get the OS and essential applications to the point where the machine became usable. Yes it works, but so does a Ford model T. For example I wanted to use LVM but the attempt broke the installer. I still have not got sound working. In both of these cases, please either 1) File bugs if you can reproduce the problem and get a sensible error message and a bug isn't already reported. 2) If you cannot, ask here or in some other forum so people can help you get the bug into a state where it can be reported. If you have reported them, and no one has been able to solve it or responded, then please point to the bug/threads, and I or someone else may take a look. Debian doesn't have the resources (people or money) to exhaustively test every single combination of hardware and install type; we do our best, but in the end, if you want it supported, Debian needs your help. -- Don Armstrong http://www.donarmstrong.com If you have the slightest bit of intellectual integrity you cannot support the government. -- anonymous -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140319153135.gh32...@teltox.donarmstrong.com
Re: Great Debian experience
On Wed, 19 Mar 2014 15:10:02 +0100 Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: fenestral hordes. I rather like your description of them but wouldn't it have been more proper to use the term 'fenestrated' it is an adjective. In anatomy, this would apply to 'having perforations, apertures suggesting perhaps of having been buggered. Deo Soli Debianae Invicto Seculari -- CK signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Great Debian experience
On Wed, 19 Mar 2014 21:32:10 +0700 Ken Heard kensli...@teksavvy.com wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 It never ceases to amaze me that there are people can get various iterations of Debian working out of the box. Ever since Sarge I have had no end of trouble either with new installations or upgrades, to the point that I dread every new iteration. I would have switched long ago to another operating system except for the fact that every other one I looked at was worse. My latest experience was a new installation of Wheezy in a new box. It took me the entire month of January to get the OS and essential applications to the point where the machine became usable. Yes it works, but so does a Ford model T. For example I wanted to use LVM but the attempt broke the installer. I still have not got sound working. So what is the secret? Ken Heard Hi Ken, I have a specific set of secrets: * Use the network installer, CLI (ncurses) mode, Expert Install * But mostly choose the defaults * Install the Stable version * Tell it to include the nonfree repos * Install a very small system working, then use apt-get to expand ..I don't even install X during the install * Use a robust, lightweight desktop like Xfce, LXDE, or Openbox * Install networkmanager. I'm no longer man enough to use wpasupplicant or iwconfig * Early, install synaptic. Much easier than CLI apt-cache search. * Don't use brand new hardware. About that last point: The next time I get new hardware, I'll try Debian Stable first, but if the hardware is newer than the drivers in Debian Stable, I'll use Xubuntu, and then a year later go to Debian Stable. HTH, SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140319120249.243e4b09@mydesk
Re: Great Debian experience
On Wed, 19 Mar 2014 10:03:03 -0400 (EDT). Lisi Reisz wrote: Choosing XFCE from the beginning has already been suggested. I suggested choosing expert install and then choosing XFCE before being taken back to the ordinary installation. This also has the advantage that you don't have to type startx every time you log in, because you get a desktop manager. Perhaps you suggested this in another thread, but I don't see it it this thread, Lisi. But I believe that the method you suggested above and the method I suggested are logically equivalent. The subsequent behavior of the Debian installer should be the same in both cases. The advantage of my method is that it allows the specification of additional parameters, if needed. For example, perhaps snd_hda_intel.model=auto needs to be specified. -- .''`. Stephen Powell : :' : `. `'` `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/827732535.404312.1395258358347.javamail.r...@md01.wow.synacor.com
Re: Great Debian experience, part 2
I'm running squeeze on a 2003 IBM T40 - also 2Gig. It runs fine and runs Lotus Notes fine as well. I'm backlevel because Notes is broken on the latest Gnome. It's just a machine I use to boot, look, shutdown and it's wonderfully fast for that. Replaced Windows XP which was a pig and going out of service. I actually tried Ubuntu but it has piggish tendancies as well! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87r45xhm3b@aptiva.optonline.net
Re: Great Debian experience
On 20/03/14 01:32, Ken Heard wrote: It never ceases to amaze me that there are people can get various iterations of Debian working out of the box. That it does happen is testament that Debian does things right. The vast majority of people who install Debian for their own use make little or no effort to learn about Debian. There are generally different degrees of working out of the box. The OP did a lot of work to achieve that - so of which he either failed to recall or simple neglected to mention. Much was unnecessary e.g. the DE could have been selected at the GUI installer boot screen (or by choosing expert, or by calling the tasksel meta-package at a later stage.) - which just showcases the strength of Debian package management and Debian's commitment to choices. The browser would not be latest unless an additional repository was added - and that package was installed; Youtube wouldn't work without flash being installed. Neither of those things is the Debian default - but, importantly, Debian is designed to allow you to do so. Ever since Sarge I have had no end of trouble either with new installations or upgrades, to the point that I dread every new iteration. I would have switched long ago to another operating system except for the fact that every other one I looked at was worse. My latest experience was a new installation of Wheezy in a new box. It took me the entire month of January to get the OS and essential applications to the point where the machine became usable. Yes it works, but so does a Ford model T. For example I wanted to use LVM but the attempt broke the installer. I still have not got sound working. So what is the secret? Planning(?). ;) Know *exactly* what you want, research the requirements and difficulties, specify, plan, execute, review, record, and adjust. For many people the chicken install[*1] will work fine. By work I mean - the hardware they have chosen, deliberately or not, will be supported; and the default Debian settings/selections are what they are happy with. One of the key differences with the latter is that the user adapts to what they get. An appropriate analogy might be that the OS is the software equivalent of pants? In many cases the user: doesn't know what they want; or does - but it's not part of the default Debian selections and they don't know how to achieve it. Neither of those situations are wrong, or bad, and Debian can support them (that you can seek assistance on this list is part of that support). I've read sophistic argument in this list previously where it was postulated that the user with root access was not a sysadmin - that's rubbish. They may simply be an unqualified and inexperienced sysadmin, but sysadmin they are - and often a SOE engineer. The more the requirements of the user differ from the norm (default) the more work required - and if the user doesn't know what they want (wants to experiment) those requirements are similar to nailing smoke to the wall. Ken Heard Kind regards [*1]stick breadcrumbs on Enter key, leave the install to the chicken. Comparable to the Windoof install like a cricket ball is comparable to an orange. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/532a1e24.4040...@gmail.com
Re: Great Debian experience
On 20/03/14 04:47, Charles Kroeger wrote: On Wed, 19 Mar 2014 15:10:02 +0100 Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: fenestral hordes. I rather like your description of them but wouldn't it have been more proper to use the term 'fenestrated' it is an adjective. In anatomy, this would apply to 'having perforations, apertures suggesting perhaps of having been buggered. It was obviously a witty reference to windows, please don't spoil it with orifice fixations. Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/532a1fa2.10...@gmail.com
Re: Great Debian experience
On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 7:52 AM, Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote: On 20/03/14 04:47, Charles Kroeger wrote: On Wed, 19 Mar 2014 15:10:02 +0100 Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: fenestral hordes. I rather like your description of them but wouldn't it have been more proper to use the term 'fenestrated' it is an adjective. In anatomy, this would apply to 'having perforations, apertures suggesting perhaps of having been buggered. It was obviously a witty reference to windows, please don't spoil it with orifice fixations. I dunno, unintentional fenestration seems a bit like perforation to me. (And I would personally like to see the defenestration of the guys who brought us Microsoft.) -- Joel Rees Be careful where you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart.
Re: Great Debian experience
On Wednesday 19 March 2014 17:47:20 Charles Kroeger wrote: On Wed, 19 Mar 2014 15:10:02 +0100 Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: fenestral hordes. I rather like your description of them but wouldn't it have been more proper to use the term 'fenestrated' it is an adjective. In anatomy, this would apply to 'having perforations, apertures suggesting perhaps of having been buggered. Yes - but I was not talking doctor-speak, which is a language all of itys own. I am quite happy that fenestral means _exactly_ what I intended it to mean! And it was certainly proper to use it in that way. In architecture it is fenestrated that would mean having holes!! From Wiktionary: Adjective fenestral (not comparable) (architecture) Relating to a window or windows. Adjective fenestrated (comparative more fenestrated, superlative most fenestrated) (architecture) Having windows From Collins 20C dictionary - more my own era ;-) - fenestrated - .pierced, perforated ... Deo Soli Debianae Invicto Seculari While we are correcting each other, Liddle and Scott prefers saeculari. You must be American! Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201403192318.09663.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Great Debian experience
On Wednesday 19 March 2014 19:45:58 Stephen Powell wrote: Perhaps you suggested this in another thread, but I don't see it it this thread, Lisi. Probably - I didn't check. I was just referring to your reference to the information being too late for thsi install. But I believe that the method you suggested above and the method I suggested are logically equivalent. That was the point I thought that I was making! The subsequent behavior of the Debian installer should be the same in both cases. Quite. The advantage of my method is that it allows the specification of additional parameters, if needed. For example, perhaps snd_hda_intel.model=auto needs to be specified. One lives and learns (one hopes :-/ ). I didn't know that. Thanks, Stephen. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201403192322.35235.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Great Debian experience
On Wednesday 19 March 2014 23:18:09 Lisi Reisz wrote: On Wednesday 19 March 2014 17:47:20 Charles Kroeger wrote: On Wed, 19 Mar 2014 15:10:02 +0100 Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: fenestral hordes. I rather like your description of them but wouldn't it have been more proper to use the term 'fenestrated' it is an adjective. In anatomy, this would apply to 'having perforations, apertures suggesting perhaps of having been buggered. Yes - but I was not talking doctor-speak, which is a language all of itys own. I am quite happy that fenestral means _exactly_ what I intended it to mean! And it was certainly proper to use it in that way. In architecture it is fenestrated that would mean having holes!! From Wiktionary: Adjective fenestral (not comparable) (architecture) Relating to a window or windows. Adjective fenestrated (comparative more fenestrated, superlative most fenestrated) (architecture) Having windows From Collins 20C dictionary - more my own era ;-) - fenestrated - .pierced, perforated ... Deo Soli Debianae Invicto Seculari While we are correcting each other, Liddle and Scott prefers saeculari. You must be American! Lisi Now how did that thread get broken??? Sorry, folks. I'll try to repost it to the correct place. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201403192324.45919.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Great Debian experience
Reposting to try to get this in the correct thread. On Wednesday 19 March 2014 17:47:20 Charles Kroeger wrote: On Wed, 19 Mar 2014 15:10:02 +0100 Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: fenestral hordes. I rather like your description of them but wouldn't it have been more proper to use the term 'fenestrated' it is an adjective. In anatomy, this would apply to 'having perforations, apertures suggesting perhaps of having been buggered. Yes - but I was not talking doctor-speak, which is a language all of itys own. I am quite happy that fenestral means _exactly_ what I intended it to mean! And it was certainly proper to use it in that way. In architecture it is fenestrated that would mean having holes!! From Wiktionary: Adjective fenestral (not comparable) (architecture) Relating to a window or windows. Adjective fenestrated (comparative more fenestrated, superlative most fenestrated) (architecture) Having windows From Collins 20C dictionary - more my own era ;-) - fenestrated - .pierced, perforated ... Deo Soli Debianae Invicto Seculari While we are correcting each other, Liddle and Scott prefers saeculari. You must be American! Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201403192328.14468.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Great Debian experience
On Thu, 20 Mar 2014 00:30:03 +0100 Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: You must be American! I'm awfully American but I once lived in your country for many enjoyable years. Tell me this, are you English Scottish Welsh Northern Irish or just British I got the original from a reference to Mithra (the sun god not mothra the giant killer moth) from an old 1972 edition of Pears Cyclopedia (you would probably say, cyclopaedia :-) often found in places once occupied by Roman soldiers: Deo Soli Mithrae Invicto Seculari -- CK -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/bouq45fkl2...@mid.individual.net
Re: Great Debian experience
On 20/03/14 11:12, Charles Kroeger wrote: On Thu, 20 Mar 2014 00:30:03 +0100 Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: You must be American! I'm awfully American but I once lived in your country for many enjoyable years. Tell me this, are you English Scottish Welsh Northern Irish or just British or *cough* Orkadian *cough* :) Not to ignore all the other countries that speak English but not the US variant. Note:- there are many variations of English, and the U.S. variant is not uniform. snipped Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/532a3f21.40...@gmail.com
Re: Great Debian experience
On Wednesday, March 19, 2014 07:18:09 PM Lisi Reisz wrote: Deo Soli Debianae Invicto Seculari While we are correcting each other, Liddle and Scott prefers saeculari. You must be American! Bohemians. The whole lot of us. :) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201403192112.22287.neal.p.mur...@alum.wpi.edu
Re: Great Debian experience
On Wed, 19 Mar 2014, Ken Heard wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 It never ceases to amaze me that there are people can get various iterations of Debian working out of the box. Ever since Sarge I have had no end of trouble either with new installations or upgrades, to the point that I dread every new iteration. I would have switched long ago to another operating system except for the fact that every other one I looked at was worse. My latest experience was a new installation of Wheezy in a new box. It took me the entire month of January to get the OS and essential applications to the point where the machine became usable. Yes it works, but so does a Ford model T. For example I wanted to use LVM but the attempt broke the installer. I still have not got sound working. Did you research LVMs and how to set them up? Or did you just tick LVM when the installer got to the partitioning phase? So what is the secret? Knowledge. Research. Experience. The best advice I can give to anyone considering Linux -- any distro: At least, read and study, and I do mean study, the Install docs as well as the Release Notes. Debian has one of the best sites for self-education. The Arch Linux site is even better. Goes into lots of detail, step-by-step, on just about everything. Great for troubleshooting. Here's some guidelines to reduce install/run problems. 1. It takes 6 months to a year for the development community to catch up with new hardware. Check Linux Hardware Compatibility sites for potential problems. I've NEVER built a system with MB hardware and accessory cards newer than 6 months old. Most of the time, a little older. If you go with cutting edge hardware, you're going to have problems. At least for 6 months or so. Accept it. 2. Motherboard and graphic card chips can be a problem in general, new or old. I try to stick with nVidia, Realtek and AMD. I avoid Intel and Broadcom, particularly the newest chips. Older ones are less a problem. 3. Decide how you want to set up your system before you install. Search the web for potential problems and fixes. Forearmed is forewarned. 4. Stick with manufacturers who overtly support Linux. B -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140319191044.05f36...@debian7.boseck208.net
Re: Great Debian experience
On 3/20/14, Patrick Bartek bartek...@yahoo.com wrote: Here's some guidelines to reduce install/run problems. 2. Motherboard and graphic card chips can be a problem in general, new or old. I try to stick with nVidia, Realtek and AMD. I avoid Intel and Broadcom, particularly the newest chips. Older ones are less a problem. I don't have experience with desktops/servers, but on laptops (at least Lenovo), Intel is a fine option, and in my experience mostly just works. Of course, YMMV. 4. Stick with manufacturers who overtly support Linux. Which certainly includes Intel (these days) in a pretty big way! Good luck Zenaan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/caosgnsquqnh_ij13z8t5f9g-s1rf43_jk7g_mwksrr8iuuc...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Great Debian experience
On Thu, 20 Mar 2014, Zenaan Harkness wrote: On 3/20/14, Patrick Bartek bartek...@yahoo.com wrote: Here's some guidelines to reduce install/run problems. 2. Motherboard and graphic card chips can be a problem in general, new or old. I try to stick with nVidia, Realtek and AMD. I avoid Intel and Broadcom, particularly the newest chips. Older ones are less a problem. I don't have experience with desktops/servers, but on laptops (at least Lenovo), Intel is a fine option, and in my experience mostly just works. Of course, YMMV. I have a 12 year old IBM Thinkpad 240X with a 500MHZ Pentium IV that runs Debian Etch just fine. But that's an older one. ;-) And the only Intel based machine I own. 4. Stick with manufacturers who overtly support Linux. Which certainly includes Intel (these days) in a pretty big way! It's been so long (years!) since I read anything regarding Intel that because of what you've said, perhaps it's time I catch up with what Intel's been up to. In my memory, Intel was never a supporter of Linux. They made chips that worked with what Microsoft wanted for Windows, and Linux developers adapted their code to work with them. B -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140319213351.05a98...@debian7.boseck208.net
Re: Great Debian experience
On Thu, 20 Mar 2014 02:10:01 +0100 Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote: or *cough* Orkadian *cough* :) The selkie that deud no' forget Ae time langsine, Mansie Meur wus pickan' lempeds i' the ebb, on the wast side o' Hacksness i' Sanday, whin he wus stunned tae hear some wey amang the rocks a unco' ceurious soond Geordie Ah man, wee but a feul wad hae sold off his furnitor and left his wife. Noo, yor a fair doon reet feul, not an artificial feul like Billy Purvis! Thous a real Geordie! gan man an hide thysel! gan an' get thy picks agyen. Thou may de for the city, but never for the west end o' wor toon. I so enjoyed those regional BBC productions involving police work. I especially liked Vera, the detective chief inspector of the Northumberland and City Police. We had such a good time trying to make out what she was saying, (and all) then they took it off, and Hamish Macbeth and Wee Jock we could never understand what he was saying either but everything was bliss until Alex (Alexandra) fell off that cliff. -- CK -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/bov8jkfruv...@mid.individual.net
Re: Great Debian experience
4. Stick with manufacturers who overtly support Linux. Which certainly includes Intel (these days) in a pretty big way! It's been so long (years!) since I read anything regarding Intel that because of what you've said, perhaps it's time I catch up with what Intel's been up to. http://lwn.net/Articles/590354/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/caosgnstsdtszvwi3cycgv_41bquhemfdogu-_fwlksrf3fq...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Great Debian experience
Hello, El 18/03/2014 19:54, Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com escribió: Hi all, Here's why I like Debian Stable... Then I looked up instructions on how to install Skype, and after a little experimentation because the instructions weren't perfect, Skype was installed. If you followed wiki.debian.org skype instruction and they are not nice enough, you can modify the wiki to make it better. Regards,
