Re: Jitsi can be built
On Mon 08 Jun 2020 at 20:02:38 (+0300), Reco wrote: > On Mon, Jun 08, 2020 at 06:25:57PM +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 08, 2020 at 05:28:06PM +0300, Reco wrote: > > > On Mon, Jun 08, 2020 at 02:17:27PM +0100, John ff wrote: > > > > A local member of the LUG here built jitsi from sources and he is not > > > > an IT professional. From that I infer that it is possible. > > > > > > I will assume > > ^^ > > Aha. > > OP lacked the details, it's all we can do - to assume and to guess. I agree. And where's the evidence that the OP used to infer anything. > > And saying that "non-professionals" (what's this, anyway?) can't do > > this is downright wrong. [I'm assuming that the OP mother-tongue is English.] Saying "and he is not an IT professional" like that carries the implication that it's really not difficult. Cheers, David.
Re: Jitsi can be built
Unsubscribe Please remove me from this mailing list. Thanks On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 7:23 AM John ff wrote: > A local member of the LUG here built jitsi from sources and he is not an > IT professional. From that I infer that it is possible. > > Sent from TypeApp > > -- *David Anthony* Church Service Missionary 33 Centerville Commons Way Centerville, UT 84014 Cell-801-360-4 <801-709-9430>950
Re: Jitsi can be built
Hi. On Mon, Jun 08, 2020 at 06:25:57PM +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > On Mon, Jun 08, 2020 at 05:28:06PM +0300, Reco wrote: > > Hi. > > > > On Mon, Jun 08, 2020 at 02:17:27PM +0100, John ff wrote: > > > A local member of the LUG here built jitsi from sources and he is not > > > an IT professional. From that I infer that it is possible. > > > > I will assume > ^^ > Aha. OP lacked the details, it's all we can do - to assume and to guess. > > 4) Possible (too lazy to check it) arbitrary file downloads during the > > I think it's a bit unfair to state such assumptions without really > checking in-depth. Point taken. I'm still lazy to check it out, so disregard this one. > I've had a look at the jitsi-desktop environment, and the couple > of .jar I saw are more or less standard Java components. No. They are just called like that. One should not trust the contents of those jars more than the random executable from the nearest warez dump. There's also a matter of bundled *so files. > A clean Debian packaging would try to replace those components by > library packages to depend on. And so on. No. A proper Debian packaging *must* replace all blobs that come with the source, unless maintainer is content with the package ending in non-free archive. Either it can be built from the source from the bottom to the top or it's non-DFSG compliant. Simple as that. > But jumping to the conclusion that the thing is "not really free" > is a big jump to do. I'm merely applying Debian policy to the build process here, and I even did not applied all of it. > And saying that "non-professionals" (what's this, anyway?) can't do > this is downright wrong. Nope. It takes a professional to distinguish barely outlined upstream "build process" from a proper one, and it takes it again to follow a proper process. Nobody requires that from the beginner, of course, these things can be learned, but learning them takes time and effort. What's really wrong is to mistake a zip archive full of blobs which should be built with non-free toolset with the proper libre source tarball which should built with libre tools. But then again, it's Java we're talking about here, and living in proprietary ecosystem breeds strange habits. Reco
Re: Jitsi can be built
On Mon, Jun 08, 2020 at 05:28:06PM +0300, Reco wrote:
> Hi.
>
> On Mon, Jun 08, 2020 at 02:17:27PM +0100, John ff wrote:
> > A local member of the LUG here built jitsi from sources and he is not
> > an IT professional. From that I infer that it is possible.
>
> I will assume
^^
Aha.
> 4) Possible (too lazy to check it) arbitrary file downloads during the
I think it's a bit unfair to state such assumptions without really
checking in-depth.
I've had a look at the jitsi-desktop environment, and the couple
of .jar I saw are more or less standard Java components.
Of course, it's an anti-pattern (quite widespread, alas) to ingest
external components into a repo. And the buildery in the Java world
is... well, I lack polite terms for that.
A clean Debian packaging would try to replace those components by
library packages to depend on. And so on.
But jumping to the conclusion that the thing is "not really free"
is a big jump to do. And saying that "non-professionals" (what's
this, anyway?) can't do this is downright wrong.
Cheers
-- t
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Re: Jitsi can be built
Hi. On Mon, Jun 08, 2020 at 02:17:27PM +0100, John ff wrote: > A local member of the LUG here built jitsi from sources and he is not > an IT professional. From that I infer that it is possible. I will assume that the build process was similar to described at [1]. A quick look at so-called "sources", i.e. [2] reveals us: 1) Multiple *jar files of unknown content. 2) Pre-built *so files without sources, and without any visible licences. 3) Build-dependency on non-free Oracle JDK and pre-built Apache ANT. 4) Possible (too lazy to check it) arbitrary file downloads during the build process - ant in (in)famous for it. Proper building from the source would require (some steps omitted for simplicity): 1) Building openjdk from the source (Debian does it, so that's easy). 2) Building ant from the source (ditto). 3) Re-building all those *jar blobs (possible, given that those are popular java libraries). 4) Re-building from the source all those *so files. 5) Fixing build.xml to prevent it from downloading random *jars from all the Internet (may be impossible). 6) De-composing the resulting *jar(s) and replacing bundled *jars with proper Debian dependencies. And last, but not least: 7) Repeat build process once jitsi source is updated. Points from 3 to 7 inclusive require one to be an "IT professional" IMO. Somehow I doubt that aforementioned local member of LUG followed the latter process, most possibly it was former. I.e. - not real BTS at all. Reco [1] https://desktop.jitsi.org/Documentation/RetrievingAndBuildingTheSources [2] http://download.jitsi.org/jitsi/src/jitsi-src-2.10.5550.zip
Re: Jitsi can be built
John ff (12020-06-08): > A local member of the LUG here built jitsi from sources and he is not > an IT professional. From that I infer that it is possible. Thanks for the information. Do you have details? Was it all the sub-projects or only some? Did they write a blog post or something explaining how they did? Regards, -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Jitsi can be built
On Mon, Jun 08, 2020 at 02:17:27PM +0100, John ff wrote: > A local member of the LUG here built jitsi from sources and he is not an IT > professional. From that I infer that it is possible. Thanks for this data point. I assumed as much. Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: Digital signature
