Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs?
On Tuesday, 14 Dec 2021 at 09:14, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > If at all possible, that system would benefit greatly from moving the > system to an SSD. I do have one system with an SSD and these drives do have an incredible positive performance impact. With respect to the system I have been referring in this thread, I'm sure replacing the drives with an SSD would help the system but this would cost money and, more to the point, this system is scheduled to be replaced in the near future by a much newer (albeit not new: 4-5 years old) system. If it were a big issue for me, then the cost could be worth it, of course, but it's not really. I only posted earlier in the thread as a data point on what things can slow desktop environments down. Thank you for your suggestions! -- Eric S Fraga with org 9.5.1 in Emacs 29.0.50 on Debian 11.1
Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs?
On Lu, 13 dec 21, 11:40:15, Eric S Fraga wrote: > On Friday, 10 Dec 2021 at 12:23, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > > I've seen some hints on the web that slow storage can also have an > > impact, something to do with periodic flushing of some sqlite database > > to persistent storage. > > This is indeed a very likely explanation. The disk drives on this > system are definitely on the slow side. I could upgrade but killing > firefox periodically is an easier (and cheaper ) solution for me! If at all possible, that system would benefit greatly from moving the system to an SSD. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs?
On Friday, 10 Dec 2021 at 12:23, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > I've seen some hints on the web that slow storage can also have an > impact, something to do with periodic flushing of some sqlite database > to persistent storage. This is indeed a very likely explanation. The disk drives on this system are definitely on the slow side. I could upgrade but killing firefox periodically is an easier (and cheaper ) solution for me! -- Eric S Fraga with org 9.5.1 in Emacs 29.0.50 on Debian 11.1
Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs?
On Lu, 01 nov 21, 07:58:09, Eric S Fraga wrote: > On Sunday, 31 Oct 2021 at 09:17, piorunz wrote: > > Nah. Problem is your computer, not Firefox. > > Rather dismissive? > > Everything else on this "slow" computer (yes, it's old but has 4 > dual-core Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-1620 v2 @ 3.70GHz processors and 32 GB > RAM) works just fine otherwise. Drive and memory all test fine. > > Only Firefox causes me problems if I let it run for a long time. My > system is up 24/7. I've seen some hints on the web that slow storage can also have an impact, something to do with periodic flushing of some sqlite database to persistent storage. Even on older hardware, persistent storage is significantly slower than the rest, a fast SSD can really breath new life into it. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs?
On Monday, 1 Nov 2021 at 14:53, piorunz wrote: > Glad I could help you move to (hopefully) right direction. Thank you for all the suggestions. My solution is straightforward: I open Firefox when I need it (usually these days only for banking, using eww in Emacs for most everything else web related... ;-)) and then close it immediately. No performance issues then! -- Eric S Fraga via Emacs 28.0.60 & org 9.5 on Debian 11.1
Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs?
On 01/11/2021 14:02, Eric S Fraga wrote: Your comment about the GPU driver is helpful as I probably don't have the optimum graphics card settings (I do very little graphical work: mostly text in Emacs all day long...). I have an nvidia graphics card and my experience with nvidia has never been positive, to be fair. Glad I could help you move to (hopefully) right direction. Nvidia provides closed source drivers only which are known to have errors and bugs. I you don't use closed source drivers, open source equivalent - nouveau driver, is (or could be) even more buggy and basic. Sometimes Nvidia drivers are blacklisted in browsers and you have no acceleration whatsoever, because of bugs. Can you change your GPU to AMD? To Radeon card with open source driver? I do 4K 60FPS gaming on my radeon card with open source driver, no problems at all. Didn't hang on me since I installed Bullseye. Please check hardware acceleration settings in Firefox. Maybe they can be enabled, disabled, changed, or reset to default. Reason of this procedure is that Firefox works better with your GPU. See what you can do, start from about:support page in Firefox. But that perhaps is offtopic discussion in this Debian mailing list. -- With kindest regards, Piotr. ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org ⠈⠳⣄
Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs?
On Monday, 1 Nov 2021 at 10:38, piorunz wrote: > Sorry if you felt offended. Not offended! :-) > No single application should slow down entire system with 32GB of RAM, 2 Agreed, it shouldn't. But my experience is that it does. Why? I don't know. Your comment about the GPU driver is helpful as I probably don't have the optimum graphics card settings (I do very little graphical work: mostly text in Emacs all day long...). I have an nvidia graphics card and my experience with nvidia has never been positive, to be fair. -- Eric S Fraga via Emacs 28.0.60 & org 9.5 on Debian 11.1
Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs?
On 01/11/2021 13:14, Tixy wrote: Sure it can, depends on how many processes and threads the application uses. E.g. transcoding a video will quite happily eat most of the time on all my CPUs In that case just decrease Firefox priority using htop when already running, or nice during starting Firefox so CPU priority setting is inherited to it's children processes. Even set priority to idle. That way, Firefox eating all CPU time will not have any impact on other programs running in your machine. Everything can be sorted out. Even fact that Firefox spawns dozens of processes as you add more tabs - just disable multiprocess spawning in Firefox settings. Another proof that Firefox can be running for months without any problem - problem it always in hardware or in the user not being aware of configuration options available. -- With kindest regards, Piotr. ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org ⠈⠳⣄
Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs?
On Mon, 2021-11-01 at 10:38 +, piorunz wrote: > No single application should slow down entire system with 32GB of RAM, 2 > CPUs and multiple threads, unless something is misconfigured... Sure it can, depends on how many processes and threads the application uses. E.g. transcoding a video will quite happily eat most of the time on all my CPUs, as will compiling a large program. And whilst I have no performance problems with Firefox, myself, I see that it's config on my machine is set to use 8 process by default, and sure enough there's lot's of processes spawned when opening several tabs (which I don't normally do). If I then turn off the ad blocker and enable javascript, then it seems to use up to 100% of a single CPU total when doing 'nothing'. (Presumably that's crap and malicious java script doing whatever it does.) -- Tixy
Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs?
On 01/11/2021 07:58, Eric S Fraga wrote: On Sunday, 31 Oct 2021 at 09:17, piorunz wrote: Nah. Problem is your computer, not Firefox. Rather dismissive? Everything else on this "slow" computer (yes, it's old but has 4 dual-core Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-1620 v2 @ 3.70GHz processors and 32 GB RAM) works just fine otherwise. Drive and memory all test fine. Only Firefox causes me problems if I let it run for a long time. My system is up 24/7. YMMV, of course, and that's great for you. But don't dismiss other people's experiences so out of hand please. Sorry if you felt offended. But you said yourself "It can slow the whole system down in my experience." No single application should slow down entire system with 32GB of RAM, 2 CPUs and multiple threads, unless something is misconfigured or suboptimal, like GPU driver for example. I have 64GB of ECC RAM in this machine, Firefox ESR didn't crashed even once since I installed Bullseye, I never close it. I use Radeon card with open source driver. GPU has a big effect on browsers, because they use hardware acceleration. What GPU you have? -- With kindest regards, Piotr. ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org ⠈⠳⣄
Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs?
On Sunday, 31 Oct 2021 at 09:17, piorunz wrote: > Nah. Problem is your computer, not Firefox. Rather dismissive? Everything else on this "slow" computer (yes, it's old but has 4 dual-core Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-1620 v2 @ 3.70GHz processors and 32 GB RAM) works just fine otherwise. Drive and memory all test fine. Only Firefox causes me problems if I let it run for a long time. My system is up 24/7. YMMV, of course, and that's great for you. But don't dismiss other people's experiences so out of hand please. -- Eric S Fraga via Emacs 28.0.60 & org 9.5 on Debian 11.1
Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs?
kaye n writes: SORRY I SHOULD HAVE SENT IT TO DEBIAN LIST Never mind, I am taking this as an OK to post my answer to the list :) On Sun, Oct 31, 2021 at 9:16 PM kaye n wrote: On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 10:35 PM Linux-Fan wrote: [...] I'd suggest to try debugging _why_ Firefox has become so much slower as per the upgrade. It is unlikely that it is the new Firefox version being slower than the old ones (although it may be possible). What I'd rather guess is that something different changed in the system which now causes it to run slower. What GPU are you using? How is the RAM load during the slow phases? Can you close invidual tabs to stop the slowness i.e. can you make out that the high load is caused by a specific website or a specific type of website. It [...] What GPU are you using? Device-1: Intel 82945G/GZ Integrated Graphics driver: i915 v: kernel Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.11 driver: loaded: intel unloaded: fbdev,modesetting,vesa resolution: 1366x768~60Hz OpenGL: renderer: Mesa DRI Intel 945G v: 1.4 Mesa 20.3.5 Can you close invidual tabs to stop the slowness Almost always no. Actually, this looks pretty OK to me. I conclude that it is most likely not to be a GPU-related issue, although I do not know what else might be causing the slowness. Others suggested to check the CPU load with `htop`. This might indeed be a good next thing to try? HTH Linux-Fan öö pgpZXeQQQzcJd.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs?
On 31/10/2021 13:22, kaye n wrote: This currentLXQT / Firefox slowing down computer issue is currently on the old desktop computer, which has access to good wifi speed. RAM of this desktop computer is 3GB only. I'm running an installed 11 system, not a live USB stick. Thank you. Please show screenshot of "htop" command running in the terminal. Let's see if this problem you are experiencing is caused by LXQT (as you assumed) or by inadequate hardware (my guess). -- With kindest regards, Piotr. ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org ⠈⠳⣄
Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs?
On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 10:49 PM David Wright wrote: > On Fri 29 Oct 2021 at 20:59:06 (+0800), kaye n wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 8:52 PM Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: > > > On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 08:22:15PM +0800, kaye n wrote: > > > > LXQT says, > > > > > > > > It will not get in your way. It will not hang or slow down your > system. > > > > > > > > However, I've experienced the opposite, especially when I'm using > Firefox > > > > browser and attempt to open several pages in different tabs. > > > > > > I think Firefox may actually be the problem: it _is_ memory hungry. > > > The Web is getting heavier and more memory hungry in general - maybe > > > open one or two pages and see how much faster it is. > > > > > > > I don't think the problem lies with Firefox though because I didn't > have > > > > that problem on Debian 10 XFCE. I am now running Debian 11 LXQT. > > > > > > > > I don't want to use XFCE again just because I want to try another. > > > > > > > > Could LXDE be better? Is there a way I can install LXDE to my > existing > > > > Debian 11 running LXQT? Or should I just fresh install Debian 11 > with > > > LXDE > > > > as the default desktop environment? > > > > > > > You could purge LXQT and install LXDE - using tasksel as root/root > > > equivalent. > > > > > > YOu could just add LXDE to what you already have: they share some > > > libraries, > > > I think, and then switch between them. Again, use tasksel to just add > > > it. > > > > > Maybe you're right about Firefox. Any "light" browsers you can > recommend? > > Sorry, just trying to catch up here. Can we assume your internet > connection is running at better than 670kbps since Sep29? > And can you remind us whether your current problem is on the old > desktop or the 10-yr old laptop. I recall some specs for the former > (was there a typo — 10GHz?) but how much memory do they each have? > And are you running an installed 11 system, or a live USB stick? > > Cheers, > David. > This currentLXQT / Firefox slowing down computer issue is currently on the old desktop computer, which has access to good wifi speed. RAM of this desktop computer is 3GB only. I'm running an installed 11 system, not a live USB stick. Thank you.
Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs?
On 29/10/2021 13:56, kaye n wrote: For example when I'm using Firefox and I have about 10 to 12 websites opened in different tabs First tab is google, second is ebay, third is amazon, third is youtube, etc. That's when things get real slow. I have the CPU Monitor widget on the taskbar. It goes up to almost 100. I see that when the system slows down or hangs. Please show screenshot of "htop" command running in the terminal. -- With kindest regards, Piotr. ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org ⠈⠳⣄
Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs?
On 29/10/2021 14:57, Eric S Fraga wrote: My experience is that Firefox, if you open too many tabs and especially some of the very javascript heavy ones, gets bogged down quite severely and requires restarting. It can slow the whole system down in my experience. Nah. Problem is your computer, not Firefox. Probably it's just too slow, or you have bad hard drive or memory. I use Firefox with 50 tabs and multiple profiles opened, Firefox total memory consumption is over 10GB sometimes. Everything works perfectly, Firefox never let me down. But I have plenty of RAM and decent CPU. -- With kindest regards, Piotr. ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org ⠈⠳⣄
Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs?
Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: >> Maybe you're right about Firefox. Any "light" browsers you can recommend? > > If all else fails, you could try netsurf: maintained by Debian developers who > really care about the quality of their code. Interesting, I will have a look at it too, out of curiousity. I heard that it is even available for "modern" incarnations of AmigaOS (My first personal web browser was IBrowse on an A1200...)
Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs?
On Fri 29 Oct 2021 at 20:59:06 (+0800), kaye n wrote: > On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 8:52 PM Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 08:22:15PM +0800, kaye n wrote: > > > LXQT says, > > > > > > It will not get in your way. It will not hang or slow down your system. > > > > > > However, I've experienced the opposite, especially when I'm using Firefox > > > browser and attempt to open several pages in different tabs. > > > > I think Firefox may actually be the problem: it _is_ memory hungry. > > The Web is getting heavier and more memory hungry in general - maybe > > open one or two pages and see how much faster it is. > > > > > I don't think the problem lies with Firefox though because I didn't have > > > that problem on Debian 10 XFCE. I am now running Debian 11 LXQT. > > > > > > I don't want to use XFCE again just because I want to try another. > > > > > > Could LXDE be better? Is there a way I can install LXDE to my existing > > > Debian 11 running LXQT? Or should I just fresh install Debian 11 with > > LXDE > > > as the default desktop environment? > > > > > You could purge LXQT and install LXDE - using tasksel as root/root > > equivalent. > > > > YOu could just add LXDE to what you already have: they share some > > libraries, > > I think, and then switch between them. Again, use tasksel to just add > > it. > > > Maybe you're right about Firefox. Any "light" browsers you can recommend? Sorry, just trying to catch up here. Can we assume your internet connection is running at better than 670kbps since Sep29? And can you remind us whether your current problem is on the old desktop or the 10-yr old laptop. I recall some specs for the former (was there a typo — 10GHz?) but how much memory do they each have? And are you running an installed 11 system, or a live USB stick? Cheers, David.
Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs?
kaye n writes: Hi Friends! LXQT says, It will not get in your way. It will not hang or slow down your system. However, I've experienced the opposite, especially when I'm using Firefox browser and attempt to open several pages in different tabs. I don't think the problem lies with Firefox though because I didn't have that problem on Debian 10 XFCE. I am now running Debian 11 LXQT. Note that from Debian 10 XFCE to Debian 11 LXQT a lot of things changed. I am pretty sure that it is not LXQT's fault here especially if the problem only occurs while Firefox is running. I'd suggest to try debugging _why_ Firefox has become so much slower as per the upgrade. It is unlikely that it is the new Firefox version being slower than the old ones (although it may be possible). What I'd rather guess is that something different changed in the system which now causes it to run slower. What GPU are you using? How is the RAM load during the slow phases? Can you close invidual tabs to stop the slowness i.e. can you make out that the high load is caused by a specific website or a specific type of website. It could be possible that during the upgrade a combination of driver+GUI was installed that is no longer compatible with your GPU. This would typically manifest in high CPU load for things like video playing or animations of all kinds because the system falls back to "software rendering" in case the GPU is not supported properly. I don't want to use XFCE again just because I want to try another. Could LXDE be better? Is there a way I can install LXDE to my existing Debian 11 running LXQT? Or should I just fresh install Debian 11 with LXDE as the default desktop environment? Adding LXDE to your existing installation should be as simple as # apt-get install task-lxde-desktop Watch out if APT displays any conflicts with your existing packages. During login, you should then be able select different types of "sessions" including LXDE and LXQT ones. From experiments on slow (old, i386) machines, my experience was that LXDE was indeed a little bit faster than LXQT but the difference is probably not notable on anything but >13 year old hardware :) Thank you for your time. HTH and YMMV Linux-Fan öö OT: If you want something that _really_ does not get in the way or slow down, consider switching to any lightweight window manager like Fluxbox, IceWM, i3 etc. These are know to be _very_ responsive even on old machines. Of course, this will not solve the slowness caused by the software you use. Webbrowsers will remain bulky and large as many sites do not work with the lightweight browsers anymore... pgpMLA9XQ8nad.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs?
My experience is that Firefox, if you open too many tabs and especially some of the very javascript heavy ones, gets bogged down quite severely and requires restarting. It can slow the whole system down in my experience. -- Eric S Fraga via Emacs 28.0.60 & org 9.5 on Debian 11.1
Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs?
On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 08:59:06PM +0800, kaye n wrote: > On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 8:52 PM Andrew M.A. Cater > wrote: > > > On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 08:22:15PM +0800, kaye n wrote: > > > Hi Friends! > > > > > > LXQT says, > > > > > > It will not get in your way. It will not hang or slow down your system. > > > > > > However, I've experienced the opposite, especially when I'm using Firefox > > > browser and attempt to open several pages in different tabs. > > > > > > > I think Firefox may actually be the problem: it _is_ memory hungry. > > The Web is getting heavier and more memory hungry in general - maybe > > open one or two pages and see how much faster it is. > > > > > I don't think the problem lies with Firefox though because I didn't have > > > that problem on Debian 10 XFCE. I am now running Debian 11 LXQT. > > > > > > I don't want to use XFCE again just because I want to try another. > > > > > > Could LXDE be better? Is there a way I can install LXDE to my existing > > > Debian 11 running LXQT? Or should I just fresh install Debian 11 with > > LXDE > > > as the default desktop environment? > > > > > You could purge LXQT and install LXDE - using tasksel as root/root > > equivalent. > > > > YOu could just add LXDE to what you already have: they share some > > libraries, > > I think, and then switch between them. Again, use tasksel to just add > > it. > > > > > > > Thank you for your time. > > > > No problem: hope this helps, > > > > Andy Cater > > > > > Maybe you're right about Firefox. Any "light" browsers you can recommend? If all else fails, you could try netsurf: maintained by Debian developers who really care about the quality of their code. It depends: websites will vary. I've actually found elinks useful for simple web links embedded in email, for example. All best, as ever, Andy Cater
Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs?
On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 8:52 PM Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: > On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 08:22:15PM +0800, kaye n wrote: > > Hi Friends! > > > > LXQT says, > > > > It will not get in your way. It will not hang or slow down your system. > > > > However, I've experienced the opposite, especially when I'm using Firefox > > browser and attempt to open several pages in different tabs. > > > > I think Firefox may actually be the problem: it _is_ memory hungry. > The Web is getting heavier and more memory hungry in general - maybe > open one or two pages and see how much faster it is. > > > I don't think the problem lies with Firefox though because I didn't have > > that problem on Debian 10 XFCE. I am now running Debian 11 LXQT. > > > > I don't want to use XFCE again just because I want to try another. > > > > Could LXDE be better? Is there a way I can install LXDE to my existing > > Debian 11 running LXQT? Or should I just fresh install Debian 11 with > LXDE > > as the default desktop environment? > > > You could purge LXQT and install LXDE - using tasksel as root/root > equivalent. > > YOu could just add LXDE to what you already have: they share some > libraries, > I think, and then switch between them. Again, use tasksel to just add > it. > > > > Thank you for your time. > > No problem: hope this helps, > > Andy Cater > > Maybe you're right about Firefox. Any "light" browsers you can recommend?
Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs?
On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 8:33 PM Dan Ritter wrote: > kaye n wrote: > > LXQT says, > > > > It will not get in your way. It will not hang or slow down your system. > > > > However, I've experienced the opposite, especially when I'm using Firefox > > browser and attempt to open several pages in different tabs. > > That's not likely to be LXQT's fault. > > > Can you describe the problem more precisely? > > -dsr- > Hello! For example when I'm using Firefox and I have about 10 to 12 websites opened in different tabs First tab is google, second is ebay, third is amazon, third is youtube, etc. That's when things get real slow. I have the CPU Monitor widget on the taskbar. It goes up to almost 100. I see that when the system slows down or hangs. Again, I don't think this ever happened in my Debian 10 XFCE. I am now running Debian 11 LXQT. Maybe Debian 11 simply consumes more resources? Thank you
Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs?
On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 08:22:15PM +0800, kaye n wrote: > Hi Friends! > > LXQT says, > > It will not get in your way. It will not hang or slow down your system. > > However, I've experienced the opposite, especially when I'm using Firefox > browser and attempt to open several pages in different tabs. > I think Firefox may actually be the problem: it _is_ memory hungry. The Web is getting heavier and more memory hungry in general - maybe open one or two pages and see how much faster it is. > I don't think the problem lies with Firefox though because I didn't have > that problem on Debian 10 XFCE. I am now running Debian 11 LXQT. > > I don't want to use XFCE again just because I want to try another. > > Could LXDE be better? Is there a way I can install LXDE to my existing > Debian 11 running LXQT? Or should I just fresh install Debian 11 with LXDE > as the default desktop environment? > You could purge LXQT and install LXDE - using tasksel as root/root equivalent. YOu could just add LXDE to what you already have: they share some libraries, I think, and then switch between them. Again, use tasksel to just add it. > Thank you for your time. No problem: hope this helps, Andy Cater
Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs?
kaye n wrote: > LXQT says, > > It will not get in your way. It will not hang or slow down your system. > > However, I've experienced the opposite, especially when I'm using Firefox > browser and attempt to open several pages in different tabs. That's not likely to be LXQT's fault. Can you describe the problem more precisely? -dsr-
