Re: Laptop randomly reboots
On Sat 19 May 2018 at 12:49:51 (-0500), Sam Smith wrote: > On 05/19/2018 01:56 AM, Hans wrote: > >Hi, > > > >looks like the laptop is going too hot. This is a problem at many laptops. > >because of the cooler is set with dust. > > > >Take a look at the cooling system, if there is any dust in the way. > >Especially, as you told, this is a used one, take care of good cooling. > > > >Sadly you have to open the laptop and take a look. > > > >It might be, that the cooling is enough, when at normal load, but at high > >load > >at some point, the cooling is no more enough and the laptop reboots or is > >shutting down. > > > >If this is the reason, there should be a log entry in syslog. > > > >There is also some packages, from which can the sensors can be watched. > >Check lm-sensors or similar. > > > >Hope this helps. > > > >Good luck! > > > >Hans > > > I don't think that is the case. Perhaps, something, somewhere might > think it is getting too hot (an in a software, firmware issue). But > I've never had it reboot during any times of stressing. I used to > use a program 'think-fan' to control the fans. With that, it never > got above 80*c. I removed the program (thinking that perhaps > something external controlling the fans was causing some embedded > controller to freak out and restart the machine or something). I've > since uninstalled it, and with stock control, the temps get to 90*c, > but as I've said, doing video encoding for hours or any other stress > testing has never caused an issue. It seems to reboot at surreal > times, like I'll be typing and stop to take a sip of coffee then > boom, screen goes black and then I'm watching grub load up. You have my sympathy. This laptop that runs hot when busy (up to 98.5°C; I underreported the maximum a week ago) has never frozen or rebooted when particularly stressed. However, during the time of squeeze, it would turn itself off spontaneously (hard power-off like holding the power button), usually when you disturbed the angle of the screen (even slightly). It never happened after installing wheezy, but since about a year ago the screen goes very dark after a second or two. That happens at boot up (before the POST is finished) and also when exiting X to a VC (normal for a second, then dark again). These fleeting glimpses are the reason I can't ever seriously upgrade it. I use it with a monitor but that get a signal during the POST or CMOS. So maybe you're lucky and it'll just go away, but it sounds as if you have a reasonable workaround. (I've never run a laptop for as long as those uptimes you're reporting.) Cheers, David.
Re: Laptop randomly reboots
Hmm, maybe in the past, the laptop was clean and now it is dusty. However, you can try to force the cpu(s) running at low speed (for testing purposes). I am using this, when I do some task at night and my cooler shall not start (noisy!), for example when I build a new kali-version. The application I am using for this, is "cpufreq-set" where I set all cpu(s) forcely to use lowest clock. If you do so, and of course just for testing purposes, it should not reboot. If it still does, check all the logs, maybe you find some hints in it or even the application, which causes the reboot. Good luck! Best Hans > I don't think that is the case. Perhaps, something, somewhere might > think it is getting too hot (an in a software, firmware issue). But I've > never had it reboot during any times of stressing. I used to use a > program 'think-fan' to control the fans. With that, it never got above > 80*c. I removed the program (thinking that perhaps something external > controlling the fans was causing some embedded controller to freak out > and restart the machine or something). I've since uninstalled it, and > with stock control, the temps get to 90*c, but as I've said, doing video > encoding for hours or any other stress testing has never caused an > issue. It seems to reboot at surreal times, like I'll be typing and stop > to take a sip of coffee then boom, screen goes black and then I'm > watching grub load up. > > Thanks for the tips though. > --Sam
Re: Laptop randomly reboots
On 05/19/2018 01:56 AM, Hans wrote: Hi, looks like the laptop is going too hot. This is a problem at many laptops. because of the cooler is set with dust. Take a look at the cooling system, if there is any dust in the way. Especially, as you told, this is a used one, take care of good cooling. Sadly you have to open the laptop and take a look. It might be, that the cooling is enough, when at normal load, but at high load at some point, the cooling is no more enough and the laptop reboots or is shutting down. If this is the reason, there should be a log entry in syslog. There is also some packages, from which can the sensors can be watched. Check lm-sensors or similar. Hope this helps. Good luck! Hans I don't think that is the case. Perhaps, something, somewhere might think it is getting too hot (an in a software, firmware issue). But I've never had it reboot during any times of stressing. I used to use a program 'think-fan' to control the fans. With that, it never got above 80*c. I removed the program (thinking that perhaps something external controlling the fans was causing some embedded controller to freak out and restart the machine or something). I've since uninstalled it, and with stock control, the temps get to 90*c, but as I've said, doing video encoding for hours or any other stress testing has never caused an issue. It seems to reboot at surreal times, like I'll be typing and stop to take a sip of coffee then boom, screen goes black and then I'm watching grub load up. Thanks for the tips though. --Sam
Re: Laptop randomly reboots
On 5/19/18, Hans wrote: > Hi, > > looks like the laptop is going too hot. This is a problem at many laptops. > because of the cooler is set with dust. > > Take a look at the cooling system, if there is any dust in the way. > Especially, as you told, this is a used one, take care of good cooling. > > Sadly you have to open the laptop and take a look. > > It might be, that the cooling is enough, when at normal load, but at high > load > at some point, the cooling is no more enough and the laptop reboots or is > shutting down. > > If this is the reason, there should be a log entry in syslog. > > There is also some packages, from which can the sensors can be watched. > Check lm-sensors or similar. There are various types of USB fans that *do* help and fairly inexpensively. There are laptop cooling pads that sit under the laptop. Others are personal fans that could be twisted so they hit the laptop in addition to the Human. Then there is always the fallback of regular personal office fans.. Additionally, I have an OLD HP that I have propped up at a sturdy (solid, unwielding) point in the back. It's been like that for maybe two years. So far, that seems to be all that one needs... in spite of no air conditioning instead of a fan to help dissipate the heat, for example. :) Cindy :) -- Cindy-Sue Causey Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA * runs with duct tape *
Re: Laptop randomly reboots
Hi, looks like the laptop is going too hot. This is a problem at many laptops. because of the cooler is set with dust. Take a look at the cooling system, if there is any dust in the way. Especially, as you told, this is a used one, take care of good cooling. Sadly you have to open the laptop and take a look. It might be, that the cooling is enough, when at normal load, but at high load at some point, the cooling is no more enough and the laptop reboots or is shutting down. If this is the reason, there should be a log entry in syslog. There is also some packages, from which can the sensors can be watched. Check lm-sensors or similar. Hope this helps. Good luck! Hans
Re: Laptop randomly reboots
On 09/04/2017 11:46 PM, Sam Smith wrote: On 08/28/2017 03:32 PM, Sam Smith wrote: On 06/13/2017 02:27 PM, Sam Smith wrote: On 05/12/2017 03:38 PM, Sam Smith wrote: On 01/20/2017 08:04 PM, Sam Smith wrote: I'll try to keep this short. I bought a used Lenovo T520 back in May. It had the motherboard with nvidia GPU. Because it sucks power and doesn't really have good suspend/resume support, I bought a used mother board off of ebay that only had intel integrated graphics and I swapped it out. All was well and I had installed in it 8gb +4gb of ram. It ran like that for about 8 weeks before I bought an 8gb stick and stuck that in, so then I had 8gb + 8gb of ram. After about 6 weeks of running like, it randomly rebooted overnight. I shrugged it off and thought maybe the power went out or something (even though it had a battery in it). But then about 2 weeks later it did it again..and then two weeks after that. So I pulled out the new 8gb stick I had put in and let it run with just one 8gb stick. It ran like that for about 10 weeks without a problem. I put the old 4gb stick in just for fun, bringing it back to the original 8gb + 4gb configuration. But about 2 weeks later it rebooted again. At that point I bought a matched 16gb kit (8gb + 8gb) from new egg that seemed to come recommended from google searching for compatible ram for this model. But just a couple of days ago (about 3 weeks after installing it), it rebooted by itself. I am kind of at a loss here now. I can buy another motherboard and swap it out again, but that takes a few hours and I don't feel like doing it. The cooling and thermal stuff is all good on the laptop,I've ran prime95 and video encoding for hours and it is fine (temps stay below 80* at least, normal usage is 40-55*). I've also ran memtest for a few hours. What I find weird is that the machine suddenly reboots. At least a few years ago, ram issues would just lead to a kernel panic screen. But with this, the machine is just like someone pulled the plug and rebooted it. I started to wonder if there is some built in watchdog somewhere that will reboot the machine if it hangs, but I can't tell? Other than that, if this is the kernel that is rebooting the machine, is there any way I can get it to dump some info somewhere before it fully reboots? Before I go through the pain of swapping the board again, I'd just like to really know that this is a hardware issue and not the kernel detecting something and just choosing to reboot... Thanks for any info, Sam Just an update. My uptime is now 80 days and I haven't had any random reboots. The only thing I did was pull in the latest apt-get updates (which took me from Jessie 6.6 to 6.7 I think, but also installed a newer xorg-intel driver from backports). I also read somewhere that there were some "issues" with having the hardware virtualization extensions enabled in BIOS (can't remember what the issues were) so I disabled those after running the apt-get upgrade and rebooting. Never gone this long without a reboot so I guess perhaps I'm good. But if this was indeed a software caused reboot, I'd like to know what setting I need to change so that debian would just hang at a kernel panic screen (or something similar) instead of just an instant dump and reboot leaving me thinking that it is hardware issues (which it may still be) Regards, Samuel Smith Guess I spoke too soon. About 10 days after I posted the above, the laptop randomly rebooted. :sigh: And for my hopefully final update. I upgraded from jessie to stretch and about 2 weeks after that I got a random reboot. Figured that ruled out any software issue. Went ahead and bought a new board off of ebay and judging by the lack of a serial number in the bios screen, I'd say it was from an old stock pile destined for RMA warranty repairs. Nonetheless, after a month of swapping the board, I've not had any further problems. Well I guess I really spoke too soon Just got a random reboot a minute ago... Pretty much at a loss now. The only thing that hasn't been replaced now is the CPU, battery, and power adapter. I do have a spare battery and power adapter. Guess I'll try running with those for a month or so and see what happens. Though not really sure how either one of those would make the computer reboot randomly once a month. Laptop is mounted in a docking station. At least for the last 6 months, every reboot was while it was docked. But I do remember times last year sitting at the kitchen table undocked and getting a reboot so I don't think the docking station is the issue.. But have no idea now :/ Regards, So for my usual 6 month update: Still scratching my head on this one. So far, tried various different ram, replaced motherboard, same issues on two different OS's (jessie and stretch), a few months a ago replaced battery with a brand new official one, tried various different power adapters... and still get the same
Re: Laptop randomly reboots
On 09/05/2017 06:25 AM, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: On Tuesday, September 05, 2017 12:46:58 AM Sam Smith wrote: Well I guess I really spoke too soon Just got a random reboot a minute ago... Pretty much at a loss now. The only thing that hasn't been replaced now is the CPU, battery, and power adapter. I do have a spare battery and power adapter. Guess I'll try running with those for a month or so and see what happens. Though not really sure how either one of those would make the computer reboot randomly once a month. Laptop is mounted in a docking station. At least for the last 6 months, every reboot was while it was docked. But I do remember times last year sitting at the kitchen table undocked and getting a reboot so I don't think the docking station is the issue.. But have no idea now :/ I haven't paid much attention to this before today, but, if I had a problem with unexplained reboots, the first area I'd look at is the power supply "chain"--that is, the battery, the connections between the battery and the laptop, power "glitches" to the house,etc. I run a laptop with a known bad battery--if I disconnect the power supply it crashes in seconds. OTOH, if your battery is good, it serves as a (long lived) UPS--you should be able to ride out hours long power glitches. If I had a known good battery, I might try examining the contacts between the battery and the laptop--are they clean / shiny, is the "springy side" still "springy", does the battery fit snugly in the case or is there enough clearance for it to possibly move and break contact with the laptop? I might even try picking up the laptop and reasonably gently shaking it (while running) to see if it reboots. (You don't want to shake it so hard that you damage something else.) If you have a known bad battery, I'd look at the chain from the power outlet through the various cords and contacts on both sides of the power adapter. Try shaking the power adapter. Is the power to your house reliable--is there any chance you've had brief power outages overnight? (In the US, most electric utilities have automatic reclosers on the power line circuit breakers--if they detect a fault they open, then try closing again after a few seconds (in hopes that either the fault has cleared (maybe a shorting tree branch has either blown or burned), away, open again if there is still a fault, again try to reclose, after a few seconds. In most cases, they try this something like 3 times, with a somewhat longer delay before the last retry. Oh wait, you have (presumably known good) spare battery and power adapter--try those. The power "chain" imo seems good. Never heard of a power adapter going bad.. but I do have a spare. The battery I normally use is a smaller 6 cell I bought off of ebay, it is pretty wore out. It reports 50% capacity loss but runs for about 2 hours. I only bought it because the stock battery is a bigger 9 cell that is bulky and heavy so around the house I just leave the smaller one in. I'll use my spares for now. As for household power, it is normally plugged into my UPS (apc smartups, not the cheap consumer version). CPUs seem pretty cheap on ebay, so I could try that. But it seems that CPU issues would cause more problems than a random reboot once a month. One other thing, I do run the 'thinkfan' fan control program. You can set fan levels by temp. It was made for thinkpads made probably 10 years ago, but still seems to work on the newer models. But I do know the embedded controller on the T520 series is different than prior models. So perhaps taking control of the fan causes the EC to detect this as a fault. And maybe, just maybe, after so many "faults" it will kill power to the machine. A wild idea but who knows. I've also since disabled the thinkfan service. Other than these, not sure what else. Kinda strange, but definitely annoying. Regards,
Re: Laptop randomly reboots
> From: rhkra...@gmail.com > To: debian-user@lists.debian.org > > On Tuesday, September 05, 2017 12:46:58 AM Sam Smith wrote: >> Well I guess I really spoke too soon Just got a random reboot a >> minute ago... Pretty much at a loss now. The only thing that hasn"t been >> replaced now is the CPU, battery, and power adapter. I do have a spare >> battery and power adapter. Guess I"ll try running with those for a month >> or so and see what happens. Though not really sure how either one of >> those would make the computer reboot randomly once a month. Laptop is >> mounted in a docking station. At least for the last 6 months, every >> reboot was while it was docked. But I do remember times last year >> sitting at the kitchen table undocked and getting a reboot so I don"t >> think the docking station is the issue.. But have no idea now :/ > > I haven"t paid much attention to this before today, but, if I had a problem > with unexplained reboots, the first area I"d look at is the power supply > "chain"--that is, the battery, the connections between the battery and the > laptop, power "glitches" to the house,etc. > > I run a laptop with a known bad battery--if I disconnect the power supply it > crashes in seconds. OTOH, if your battery is good, it serves as a (long > lived) UPS--you should be able to ride out hours long power glitches. > > If I had a known good battery, I might try examining the contacts between the > battery and the laptop--are they clean / shiny, is the "springy side" still > "springy", does the battery fit snugly in the case or is there enough > clearance > for it to possibly move and break contact with the laptop? I might even try > picking up the laptop and reasonably gently shaking it (while running) to see > if it reboots. (You don"t want to shake it so hard that you damage something > else.) > > If you have a known bad battery, I"d look at the chain from the power outlet > through the various cords and contacts on both sides of the power adapter. > Try shaking the power adapter. > > Is the power to your house reliable--is there any chance you"ve had brief > power outages overnight? (In the US, most electric utilities have automatic > reclosers on the power line circuit breakers--if they detect a fault they > open, then try closing again after a few seconds (in hopes that either the > fault has cleared (maybe a shorting tree branch has either blown or burned), > away, open again if there is still a fault, again try to reclose, after a few > seconds. In most cases, they try this something like 3 times, with a somewhat > longer delay before the last retry. > > Oh wait, you have (presumably known good) spare battery and power adapter--try > those. Power is not the only thing that will shutdown a laptop, but rebooting automatically sounds a bit strange in itself. Most I have seen take your input to power-up unless a specific instruction is given to reboot. Are you sure you have not set a hot-key for reboot? Is it possible a fan or an overheating alarm is not shutting it off? But then again, you are talking about a reboot not a shutdown. Anything else from the manufacturer that is triggering a reboot? If the operating system is at fault for ordering a reboot that will be in the logs. If it is a mechanical shutdown it may be instant and not giving enough warnings to the system to log anything. So why is it rebooting? Maybe it goes through an interruption that is not a shutdown so instantly the system is trying to recuperate from the interruption. Possibly insufficient or too much voltage is going through a self protected circuit which causes the interruption and then allows current back through again, giving you the illusion of a reboot. Sometimes disk drives on their way out draw too much current, or cd/dvd drives, which the power supply can't keep up with which cause an interruption till enough juice is built up to get the motor rolling again. It could be as simple a small capacitor in one of the drives. Do your drive/s go to sleep in some state to preserve power? Look at your power settings and turn off the energy conserving options. Maybe boot from usb into a live system, disable the drives from the bios and run a usb stick or drive. If the problem comes up again then it is not drive related or operating system related. Operating systems are much more likely to freeze up than to order an anauthorized shut/reboot. I am willing to bet it is a mechanical/electric glitch and not an OS problem. Unless you have discovered a new black-hole in systemd (rust never sleeps). ;)
Re: Laptop randomly reboots
On Tuesday, September 05, 2017 12:46:58 AM Sam Smith wrote: > Well I guess I really spoke too soon Just got a random reboot a > minute ago... Pretty much at a loss now. The only thing that hasn't been > replaced now is the CPU, battery, and power adapter. I do have a spare > battery and power adapter. Guess I'll try running with those for a month > or so and see what happens. Though not really sure how either one of > those would make the computer reboot randomly once a month. Laptop is > mounted in a docking station. At least for the last 6 months, every > reboot was while it was docked. But I do remember times last year > sitting at the kitchen table undocked and getting a reboot so I don't > think the docking station is the issue.. But have no idea now :/ I haven't paid much attention to this before today, but, if I had a problem with unexplained reboots, the first area I'd look at is the power supply "chain"--that is, the battery, the connections between the battery and the laptop, power "glitches" to the house,etc. I run a laptop with a known bad battery--if I disconnect the power supply it crashes in seconds. OTOH, if your battery is good, it serves as a (long lived) UPS--you should be able to ride out hours long power glitches. If I had a known good battery, I might try examining the contacts between the battery and the laptop--are they clean / shiny, is the "springy side" still "springy", does the battery fit snugly in the case or is there enough clearance for it to possibly move and break contact with the laptop? I might even try picking up the laptop and reasonably gently shaking it (while running) to see if it reboots. (You don't want to shake it so hard that you damage something else.) If you have a known bad battery, I'd look at the chain from the power outlet through the various cords and contacts on both sides of the power adapter. Try shaking the power adapter. Is the power to your house reliable--is there any chance you've had brief power outages overnight? (In the US, most electric utilities have automatic reclosers on the power line circuit breakers--if they detect a fault they open, then try closing again after a few seconds (in hopes that either the fault has cleared (maybe a shorting tree branch has either blown or burned), away, open again if there is still a fault, again try to reclose, after a few seconds. In most cases, they try this something like 3 times, with a somewhat longer delay before the last retry. Oh wait, you have (presumably known good) spare battery and power adapter--try those.
Re: Re: Laptop randomly reboots
You can check system logs after reboot with: sudo journalctl -b -1 where -1 stands for previous boot (-2 for one boot before previous boot, etc). Maybe it will show some hints about what happened with your system before laptop reboot. If there is no error messages in the logs, then it is definitely a hardware problem. And since you bought used mobo it could be anything, from bad soldering to faulty controller that was overheated during repair procedures. >From my experience, I'd suggest you swap mobos to the one you bought laptop with( with nvidia GPU on it ). Power consumption and hibernate\resume won't be an issue because you can use integrated graphics adapter from your CPU and use nvidia GPU only on demand via primus\bumblebee.
Re: Laptop randomly reboots
On 08/28/2017 03:32 PM, Sam Smith wrote: On 06/13/2017 02:27 PM, Sam Smith wrote: On 05/12/2017 03:38 PM, Sam Smith wrote: On 01/20/2017 08:04 PM, Sam Smith wrote: I'll try to keep this short. I bought a used Lenovo T520 back in May. It had the motherboard with nvidia GPU. Because it sucks power and doesn't really have good suspend/resume support, I bought a used mother board off of ebay that only had intel integrated graphics and I swapped it out. All was well and I had installed in it 8gb +4gb of ram. It ran like that for about 8 weeks before I bought an 8gb stick and stuck that in, so then I had 8gb + 8gb of ram. After about 6 weeks of running like, it randomly rebooted overnight. I shrugged it off and thought maybe the power went out or something (even though it had a battery in it). But then about 2 weeks later it did it again..and then two weeks after that. So I pulled out the new 8gb stick I had put in and let it run with just one 8gb stick. It ran like that for about 10 weeks without a problem. I put the old 4gb stick in just for fun, bringing it back to the original 8gb + 4gb configuration. But about 2 weeks later it rebooted again. At that point I bought a matched 16gb kit (8gb + 8gb) from new egg that seemed to come recommended from google searching for compatible ram for this model. But just a couple of days ago (about 3 weeks after installing it), it rebooted by itself. I am kind of at a loss here now. I can buy another motherboard and swap it out again, but that takes a few hours and I don't feel like doing it. The cooling and thermal stuff is all good on the laptop,I've ran prime95 and video encoding for hours and it is fine (temps stay below 80* at least, normal usage is 40-55*). I've also ran memtest for a few hours. What I find weird is that the machine suddenly reboots. At least a few years ago, ram issues would just lead to a kernel panic screen. But with this, the machine is just like someone pulled the plug and rebooted it. I started to wonder if there is some built in watchdog somewhere that will reboot the machine if it hangs, but I can't tell? Other than that, if this is the kernel that is rebooting the machine, is there any way I can get it to dump some info somewhere before it fully reboots? Before I go through the pain of swapping the board again, I'd just like to really know that this is a hardware issue and not the kernel detecting something and just choosing to reboot... Thanks for any info, Sam Just an update. My uptime is now 80 days and I haven't had any random reboots. The only thing I did was pull in the latest apt-get updates (which took me from Jessie 6.6 to 6.7 I think, but also installed a newer xorg-intel driver from backports). I also read somewhere that there were some "issues" with having the hardware virtualization extensions enabled in BIOS (can't remember what the issues were) so I disabled those after running the apt-get upgrade and rebooting. Never gone this long without a reboot so I guess perhaps I'm good. But if this was indeed a software caused reboot, I'd like to know what setting I need to change so that debian would just hang at a kernel panic screen (or something similar) instead of just an instant dump and reboot leaving me thinking that it is hardware issues (which it may still be) Regards, Samuel Smith Guess I spoke too soon. About 10 days after I posted the above, the laptop randomly rebooted. :sigh: And for my hopefully final update. I upgraded from jessie to stretch and about 2 weeks after that I got a random reboot. Figured that ruled out any software issue. Went ahead and bought a new board off of ebay and judging by the lack of a serial number in the bios screen, I'd say it was from an old stock pile destined for RMA warranty repairs. Nonetheless, after a month of swapping the board, I've not had any further problems. Well I guess I really spoke too soon Just got a random reboot a minute ago... Pretty much at a loss now. The only thing that hasn't been replaced now is the CPU, battery, and power adapter. I do have a spare battery and power adapter. Guess I'll try running with those for a month or so and see what happens. Though not really sure how either one of those would make the computer reboot randomly once a month. Laptop is mounted in a docking station. At least for the last 6 months, every reboot was while it was docked. But I do remember times last year sitting at the kitchen table undocked and getting a reboot so I don't think the docking station is the issue.. But have no idea now :/ Regards,
Re: Laptop randomly reboots
On 06/13/2017 02:27 PM, Sam Smith wrote: On 05/12/2017 03:38 PM, Sam Smith wrote: On 01/20/2017 08:04 PM, Sam Smith wrote: I'll try to keep this short. I bought a used Lenovo T520 back in May. It had the motherboard with nvidia GPU. Because it sucks power and doesn't really have good suspend/resume support, I bought a used mother board off of ebay that only had intel integrated graphics and I swapped it out. All was well and I had installed in it 8gb +4gb of ram. It ran like that for about 8 weeks before I bought an 8gb stick and stuck that in, so then I had 8gb + 8gb of ram. After about 6 weeks of running like, it randomly rebooted overnight. I shrugged it off and thought maybe the power went out or something (even though it had a battery in it). But then about 2 weeks later it did it again..and then two weeks after that. So I pulled out the new 8gb stick I had put in and let it run with just one 8gb stick. It ran like that for about 10 weeks without a problem. I put the old 4gb stick in just for fun, bringing it back to the original 8gb + 4gb configuration. But about 2 weeks later it rebooted again. At that point I bought a matched 16gb kit (8gb + 8gb) from new egg that seemed to come recommended from google searching for compatible ram for this model. But just a couple of days ago (about 3 weeks after installing it), it rebooted by itself. I am kind of at a loss here now. I can buy another motherboard and swap it out again, but that takes a few hours and I don't feel like doing it. The cooling and thermal stuff is all good on the laptop,I've ran prime95 and video encoding for hours and it is fine (temps stay below 80* at least, normal usage is 40-55*). I've also ran memtest for a few hours. What I find weird is that the machine suddenly reboots. At least a few years ago, ram issues would just lead to a kernel panic screen. But with this, the machine is just like someone pulled the plug and rebooted it. I started to wonder if there is some built in watchdog somewhere that will reboot the machine if it hangs, but I can't tell? Other than that, if this is the kernel that is rebooting the machine, is there any way I can get it to dump some info somewhere before it fully reboots? Before I go through the pain of swapping the board again, I'd just like to really know that this is a hardware issue and not the kernel detecting something and just choosing to reboot... Thanks for any info, Sam Just an update. My uptime is now 80 days and I haven't had any random reboots. The only thing I did was pull in the latest apt-get updates (which took me from Jessie 6.6 to 6.7 I think, but also installed a newer xorg-intel driver from backports). I also read somewhere that there were some "issues" with having the hardware virtualization extensions enabled in BIOS (can't remember what the issues were) so I disabled those after running the apt-get upgrade and rebooting. Never gone this long without a reboot so I guess perhaps I'm good. But if this was indeed a software caused reboot, I'd like to know what setting I need to change so that debian would just hang at a kernel panic screen (or something similar) instead of just an instant dump and reboot leaving me thinking that it is hardware issues (which it may still be) Regards, Samuel Smith Guess I spoke too soon. About 10 days after I posted the above, the laptop randomly rebooted. :sigh: And for my hopefully final update. I upgraded from jessie to stretch and about 2 weeks after that I got a random reboot. Figured that ruled out any software issue. Went ahead and bought a new board off of ebay and judging by the lack of a serial number in the bios screen, I'd say it was from an old stock pile destined for RMA warranty repairs. Nonetheless, after a month of swapping the board, I've not had any further problems.
Re: Laptop randomly reboots
On 05/12/2017 03:38 PM, Sam Smith wrote: On 01/20/2017 08:04 PM, Sam Smith wrote: I'll try to keep this short. I bought a used Lenovo T520 back in May. It had the motherboard with nvidia GPU. Because it sucks power and doesn't really have good suspend/resume support, I bought a used mother board off of ebay that only had intel integrated graphics and I swapped it out. All was well and I had installed in it 8gb +4gb of ram. It ran like that for about 8 weeks before I bought an 8gb stick and stuck that in, so then I had 8gb + 8gb of ram. After about 6 weeks of running like, it randomly rebooted overnight. I shrugged it off and thought maybe the power went out or something (even though it had a battery in it). But then about 2 weeks later it did it again..and then two weeks after that. So I pulled out the new 8gb stick I had put in and let it run with just one 8gb stick. It ran like that for about 10 weeks without a problem. I put the old 4gb stick in just for fun, bringing it back to the original 8gb + 4gb configuration. But about 2 weeks later it rebooted again. At that point I bought a matched 16gb kit (8gb + 8gb) from new egg that seemed to come recommended from google searching for compatible ram for this model. But just a couple of days ago (about 3 weeks after installing it), it rebooted by itself. I am kind of at a loss here now. I can buy another motherboard and swap it out again, but that takes a few hours and I don't feel like doing it. The cooling and thermal stuff is all good on the laptop,I've ran prime95 and video encoding for hours and it is fine (temps stay below 80* at least, normal usage is 40-55*). I've also ran memtest for a few hours. What I find weird is that the machine suddenly reboots. At least a few years ago, ram issues would just lead to a kernel panic screen. But with this, the machine is just like someone pulled the plug and rebooted it. I started to wonder if there is some built in watchdog somewhere that will reboot the machine if it hangs, but I can't tell? Other than that, if this is the kernel that is rebooting the machine, is there any way I can get it to dump some info somewhere before it fully reboots? Before I go through the pain of swapping the board again, I'd just like to really know that this is a hardware issue and not the kernel detecting something and just choosing to reboot... Thanks for any info, Sam Just an update. My uptime is now 80 days and I haven't had any random reboots. The only thing I did was pull in the latest apt-get updates (which took me from Jessie 6.6 to 6.7 I think, but also installed a newer xorg-intel driver from backports). I also read somewhere that there were some "issues" with having the hardware virtualization extensions enabled in BIOS (can't remember what the issues were) so I disabled those after running the apt-get upgrade and rebooting. Never gone this long without a reboot so I guess perhaps I'm good. But if this was indeed a software caused reboot, I'd like to know what setting I need to change so that debian would just hang at a kernel panic screen (or something similar) instead of just an instant dump and reboot leaving me thinking that it is hardware issues (which it may still be) Regards, Samuel Smith Guess I spoke too soon. About 10 days after I posted the above, the laptop randomly rebooted. :sigh:
Re: Laptop randomly reboots
On 01/20/2017 08:04 PM, Sam Smith wrote: I'll try to keep this short. I bought a used Lenovo T520 back in May. It had the motherboard with nvidia GPU. Because it sucks power and doesn't really have good suspend/resume support, I bought a used mother board off of ebay that only had intel integrated graphics and I swapped it out. All was well and I had installed in it 8gb +4gb of ram. It ran like that for about 8 weeks before I bought an 8gb stick and stuck that in, so then I had 8gb + 8gb of ram. After about 6 weeks of running like, it randomly rebooted overnight. I shrugged it off and thought maybe the power went out or something (even though it had a battery in it). But then about 2 weeks later it did it again..and then two weeks after that. So I pulled out the new 8gb stick I had put in and let it run with just one 8gb stick. It ran like that for about 10 weeks without a problem. I put the old 4gb stick in just for fun, bringing it back to the original 8gb + 4gb configuration. But about 2 weeks later it rebooted again. At that point I bought a matched 16gb kit (8gb + 8gb) from new egg that seemed to come recommended from google searching for compatible ram for this model. But just a couple of days ago (about 3 weeks after installing it), it rebooted by itself. I am kind of at a loss here now. I can buy another motherboard and swap it out again, but that takes a few hours and I don't feel like doing it. The cooling and thermal stuff is all good on the laptop,I've ran prime95 and video encoding for hours and it is fine (temps stay below 80* at least, normal usage is 40-55*). I've also ran memtest for a few hours. What I find weird is that the machine suddenly reboots. At least a few years ago, ram issues would just lead to a kernel panic screen. But with this, the machine is just like someone pulled the plug and rebooted it. I started to wonder if there is some built in watchdog somewhere that will reboot the machine if it hangs, but I can't tell? Other than that, if this is the kernel that is rebooting the machine, is there any way I can get it to dump some info somewhere before it fully reboots? Before I go through the pain of swapping the board again, I'd just like to really know that this is a hardware issue and not the kernel detecting something and just choosing to reboot... Thanks for any info, Sam Just an update. My uptime is now 80 days and I haven't had any random reboots. The only thing I did was pull in the latest apt-get updates (which took me from Jessie 6.6 to 6.7 I think, but also installed a newer xorg-intel driver from backports). I also read somewhere that there were some "issues" with having the hardware virtualization extensions enabled in BIOS (can't remember what the issues were) so I disabled those after running the apt-get upgrade and rebooting. Never gone this long without a reboot so I guess perhaps I'm good. But if this was indeed a software caused reboot, I'd like to know what setting I need to change so that debian would just hang at a kernel panic screen (or something similar) instead of just an instant dump and reboot leaving me thinking that it is hardware issues (which it may still be) Regards, Samuel Smith
Re: Laptop randomly reboots
On 01/23/17 13:52, Sam Smith wrote: Ah yes, the docs for this model are actually screwed up. When first released, the chipset did in fact not support anything over 8GB (it would simply not be seen). However they updated the motherboard to support quad core i7. That also came with 16gb support built in. Okay. (Lenovo's web site is one of the reasons I don't buy their products.) ... I should note when I installed [the used motherboard], it had quite a bit of corrosion on it, either from a spill or condensation damage. So I already don't really trust it... Yuck. Do you have the original motherboard? The standard recommendation for running FOSS operating systems on laptops with Intel/ NVIDIA Optimus graphics is to switch off the NVIDIA graphics in the BIOS Setup. Xorg should then see the Intel graphics chip and use the intel driver. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_Optimus But other than normal RAM testing tips (which I have already done a bunch of), what I am really curious about is why does the machine suddenly reboot? I've had genuine RAM issues in the past. On Windows you'd get a blue screen. On Linux, you'd get the kernel panic screen. But right now I get a hard reboot. So does the kernel now reboot on panic or something? How do I tell? Those are basically the questions I have. You might have a software problem. I believe Intel x86 processors start executing code at address zero after reset. If so, a software bug that jumps to a null pointer will cause a reboot. Confirming that idea would require tracing execution. David
Re: Laptop randomly reboots
On 01/20/2017 11:35 PM, David Christensen wrote: Looking at the data sheet for your computer: http://www.lenovo.com/shop/americas/content/pdf/system_data/t520_tech_specs.pdf It covers three variants: 1. ThinkPad® T520 4243 (Onsite) 2. ThinkPad® T520 4243 (Optimus) - Onsite 3. ThinkPad® T520i 4239 (TopSeller) All three say: Memory 8GB max7 / PC3-10600 1333MHz DDR3, non-parity, dual-channel capable, two 204-pin SO-DIMM sockets See footnotes for more detailed information I can't find the footnotes. It appears that you have exceeded the manufacturer's specifications. Why do you believe installing two 8 GB memory modules will work in this computer? What operating system are you running? Have you installed any software other than official Debian binary packages? Some ideas: 1. Put identifying marks/ sequential numbers on items that otherwise look the same -- memory modules, SATA cables, adapter cards, etc.. 2. Keep detailed notes in a plain text file using a method that allows access from multiple computers. (I use CVS over SSH, with the repository on my file server.) 3. If everything is per the specifications, and module X in slot A and module Y in slot B results in problems, swapping the modules sometimes solves the problem. This has worked for me more than once. 4. I once built a computer with what appeared to be an infrequent memory problem. memtest86 ran for over a day before finding one error. 5. I once upgrade a computer from 2 @ 256 MB memory modules to 2 @ 1 GB, and encountered memory problems. I had another machine with the same motherboard, 2 @ 512 MB memory modules, and no problems. I swapped memory between the two machines and both computers worked fine. David Ah yes, the docs for this model are actually screwed up. When first released, the chipset did in fact not support anything over 8GB (it would simply not be seen). However they updated the motherboard to support quad core i7. That also came with 16gb support built in. You can google "T520 16GB" and read all up on that. I worked at a small office a few years ago when the T520 was still for sell and the whole office was populated with the bare bones model of these (crappy screen and 4gb of ram). All the employees went out and bought 8gb sticks and stuck them in, some bought 2 sticks. So the whole office had T520's with either 12GB or 16GB of ram. I don't ever recall there being any issues. The only difference with this T520 and the ones back then is BIOS version, it has the i7 quad core while their's was all dual core, and this used motherboard (which I should note when I installed it, it had quite a bit of corrosion on it, either from a spill or condensation damage. So I already don't really trust it...) But other than normal RAM testing tips (which I have already done a bunch of), what I am really curious about is why does the machine suddenly reboot? I've had genuine RAM issues in the past. On Windows you'd get a blue screen. On Linux, you'd get the kernel panic screen. But right now I get a hard reboot. So does the kernel now reboot on panic or something? How do I tell? Those are basically the questions I have. Regards, Samuel
Re: Laptop randomly reboots
On 01/20/17 18:04, Sam Smith wrote: I'll try to keep this short. I bought a used Lenovo T520 back in May. It had the motherboard with nvidia GPU. Because it sucks power and doesn't really have good suspend/resume support, I bought a used mother board off of ebay that only had intel integrated graphics and I swapped it out. All was well and I had installed in it 8gb +4gb of ram. It ran like that for about 8 weeks before I bought an 8gb stick and stuck that in, so then I had 8gb + 8gb of ram. After about 6 weeks of running like, it randomly rebooted overnight. I shrugged it off and thought maybe the power went out or something (even though it had a battery in it). But then about 2 weeks later it did it again..and then two weeks after that. So I pulled out the new 8gb stick I had put in and let it run with just one 8gb stick. It ran like that for about 10 weeks without a problem. I put the old 4gb stick in just for fun, bringing it back to the original 8gb + 4gb configuration. But about 2 weeks later it rebooted again. At that point I bought a matched 16gb kit (8gb + 8gb) from new egg that seemed to come recommended from google searching for compatible ram for this model. But just a couple of days ago (about 3 weeks after installing it), it rebooted by itself. I am kind of at a loss here now. I can buy another motherboard and swap it out again, but that takes a few hours and I don't feel like doing it. The cooling and thermal stuff is all good on the laptop,I've ran prime95 and video encoding for hours and it is fine (temps stay below 80* at least, normal usage is 40-55*). I've also ran memtest for a few hours. What I find weird is that the machine suddenly reboots. At least a few years ago, ram issues would just lead to a kernel panic screen. But with this, the machine is just like someone pulled the plug and rebooted it. I started to wonder if there is some built in watchdog somewhere that will reboot the machine if it hangs, but I can't tell? Other than that, if this is the kernel that is rebooting the machine, is there any way I can get it to dump some info somewhere before it fully reboots? Before I go through the pain of swapping the board again, I'd just like to really know that this is a hardware issue and not the kernel detecting something and just choosing to reboot... Memory errors are more common that we'd like to believe: http://www.zdnet.com/article/dram-error-rates-nightmare-on-dimm-street/?_escaped_fragment_=#! A two-and-a-half year study of DRAM on 10s of thousands Google servers found DIMM error rates are hundreds to thousands of times higher than thought -- a mean of 3,751 correctable errors per DIMM per year. Non-ECC DRAM is more common Most DIMMs don’t include ECC because it costs more. Without ECC the system doesn’t know a memory error has occurred. Bad news Besides error rates much higher than expected - which is plenty bad - the study found that error rates were motherboard, not DIMM type or vendor, dependent. This means that some popular mobos have poor EMI hygiene. Route a memory trace too close to noisy component or shirk on grounding layers and instant error problems. Other interesting findings For all platforms they found that 20% of the machines with errors make up more than 90% of all observed errors on that platform. There be lemons out there! Without ECC memory, there's no way to know if you really have a memory problem. Looking at the data sheet for your computer: http://www.lenovo.com/shop/americas/content/pdf/system_data/t520_tech_specs.pdf It covers three variants: 1. ThinkPad® T520 4243 (Onsite) 2. ThinkPad® T520 4243 (Optimus) - Onsite 3. ThinkPad® T520i 4239 (TopSeller) All three say: Memory 8GB max7 / PC3-10600 1333MHz DDR3, non-parity, dual-channel capable, two 204-pin SO-DIMM sockets See footnotes for more detailed information I can't find the footnotes. It appears that you have exceeded the manufacturer's specifications. Why do you believe installing two 8 GB memory modules will work in this computer? What operating system are you running? Have you installed any software other than official Debian binary packages? Some ideas: 1. Put identifying marks/ sequential numbers on items that otherwise look the same -- memory modules, SATA cables, adapter cards, etc.. 2. Keep detailed notes in a plain text file using a method that allows access from multiple computers. (I use CVS over SSH, with the repository on my file server.) 3. If everything is per the specifications, and module X in slot A and module Y in slot B results in problems, swapping the modules sometimes solves the problem. This has worked for me more than once. 4. I once built a computer with what appeared to be an infrequent memory problem. memtest86 ran for over a day before finding one error. 5. I once upgrade a computer from 2 @ 256 MB memory modules to
Re: Laptop randomly reboots
Random reboots can be anything, but often they're a power supply issue, and even more often, a RAM issue. The first thing I'd do if I were you is to try only 1 RAM module, run it for a few days, see if it's still acting up, and then try the other RAM module to see if you can isolate a bad RAM. Also be aware that while you can normally mix and match different RAM modules, sometimes you cannot. This is *especially* true if they're not the same speed and/or amount of RAM, but also even different manufacturers can give you headaches. Like many things in tech, such issues are not supposed to happen, but in the real world they do. Have fun... -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
