Re: Moving to Debian: updated software
Thanks, Johan and Ron! -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/x2r880dece01004242303k2a8c78t6545f43e40700...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Moving to Debian: updated software
On 04/24/2010 01:02 PM, Dotan Cohen wrote: On 24 April 2010 02:38, Ron Johnson wrote: On 04/22/2010 03:54 AM, Dotan Cohen wrote: [snip] It looks to me that Backports is the best for an everyday user who values stability, and prefers to use released software version. Please let me know where I am mistaken. Thanks. "stable with current releases" is a contradiction. If you want current releases, run Testing or Unstable. (Ignore the scary words from the website. Testing and Unstable are Stable Enough.) Thanks, Ron. I don't see the contradiction: I want released software, no betas or alphas. Testing/Sid *occasionally* have beta software (you can tell by the "-b" in the version number). Note the word "occasionally". Mostly, though, since all non-trivial s/w has bugs, Testing and Unstable shake out packaging bugs and software bugs is released software. I am using the word "stable" as in "not crashy (doesn't fall down)", not in the sense of "doesn't change". I wondered if Testing or Unstable would provide that. Yes, absolutely. -- Dissent is patriotic, remember? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4bd33e01.5010...@cox.net
Re: Moving to Debian: updated software
2010-04-24 20:02, Dotan Cohen skrev: Thanks, Ron. I don't see the contradiction: I want released software, no betas or alphas. I am using the word "stable" as in "not crashy (doesn't fall down)", not in the sense of "doesn't change". I wondered if Testing or Unstable would provide that. I use debian testing (with a few packages from unstable) because in my subjective experience, I have had fewer software problems with that solution than with the normal released versions of ubuntu. (I have used debian and/or ubuntu since at least 2002.) Regards Johan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/hqvdrs$6c...@dough.gmane.org
Re: Moving to Debian: updated software
On 24 April 2010 02:38, Ron Johnson wrote: > On 04/22/2010 03:54 AM, Dotan Cohen wrote: > [snip] >> >> It looks to me that Backports is the best for an everyday >> user who values stability, and prefers to use released software >> version. Please let me know where I am mistaken. Thanks. > > "stable with current releases" is a contradiction. If you want current > releases, run Testing or Unstable. (Ignore the scary words from the > website. Testing and Unstable are Stable Enough.) > Thanks, Ron. I don't see the contradiction: I want released software, no betas or alphas. I am using the word "stable" as in "not crashy (doesn't fall down)", not in the sense of "doesn't change". I wondered if Testing or Unstable would provide that. > If you *really want* Stable, though, deinstall iceweseal, icedove, > openoffice, etc and get their binaries directly from upstream. There's no > shame in that. (For OOo, I'd recommend www.go-oo.org; it's Debian's > upstream.) > -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/t2i880dece01004241102n1fe13d62u621f5b5e098c7...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Moving to Debian: updated software
Im still learning how to use mailing lists I read alot but I dont reply alot. Testing would be your best bet. If you want current you need debian unstable.. I think you can get the binary's from the experiential repo though On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 7:38 PM, Ron Johnson wrote: > On 04/22/2010 03:54 AM, Dotan Cohen wrote: > [snip] > >> It looks to me that Backports is the best for an everyday >> user who values stability, and prefers to use released software >> version. Please let me know where I am mistaken. Thanks. >> > > "stable with current releases" is a contradiction. If you want current > releases, run Testing or Unstable. (Ignore the scary words from the > website. Testing and Unstable are Stable Enough.) > > If you *really want* Stable, though, deinstall iceweseal, icedove, > openoffice, etc and get their binaries directly from upstream. There's no > shame in that. (For OOo, I'd recommend www.go-oo.org; it's Debian's > upstream.) > > -- > Dissent is patriotic, remember? > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a > subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org > Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4bd22f5c.9010...@cox.net > > -- Thomas Ferry A.K.A Jinzo
Re: Moving to Debian: updated software
On 04/22/2010 03:54 AM, Dotan Cohen wrote: [snip] It looks to me that Backports is the best for an everyday user who values stability, and prefers to use released software version. Please let me know where I am mistaken. Thanks. "stable with current releases" is a contradiction. If you want current releases, run Testing or Unstable. (Ignore the scary words from the website. Testing and Unstable are Stable Enough.) If you *really want* Stable, though, deinstall iceweseal, icedove, openoffice, etc and get their binaries directly from upstream. There's no shame in that. (For OOo, I'd recommend www.go-oo.org; it's Debian's upstream.) -- Dissent is patriotic, remember? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4bd22f5c.9010...@cox.net
Re: Moving to Debian: updated software
On 2010-04-23, Sthu Deus wrote: > Thank You for Your time and answer, Liam: > >>Or you could wait for the next stable release, or at least for the >>freeze announcement. > > Will it be 4.4 version of KDE in next release? - I thought, 4.3 - that is in > testing for now. > > I don't use KDE, so I haven't been paying attention. You can get some information at http://pkg-kde.alioth.debian.org/. -- Liam O'Toole Birmingham, United Kingdom -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/slrnht3nvt.bu7.liam.p.oto...@dipsy.selfip.org
Re: Moving to Debian: updated software
Thank You for Your time and answer, Liam: >Or you could wait for the next stable release, or at least for the >freeze announcement. Will it be 4.4 version of KDE in next release? - I thought, 4.3 - that is in testing for now. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4bd1d4f4.101abc0a.75e9.2...@mx.google.com
Re: Moving to Debian: updated software
> Fedora 12 has KDE 4.4 and it's in a pretty stable shape. Also, it's > officially supported, > as opposed to OpenSUSE. > I used Fedora from Core 3 to 6. It got very unstable at that point, FC 6, 7, and 8 were breaking critical packages almost monthly. I am reluctant to go back. That said, I think that Fedora, like Debian, plays a critical role in the Linux ecosystem. I commend their hard work, and I commend those who can live on the bleeding edge. -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/t2r880dece01004220940y5d94a0a5h3172d6e554f55...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Moving to Debian: updated software
On 04/22/2010 11:54 AM, Dotan Cohen wrote: I am looking for KDE 4.4.2 and Open Office 3.2 packages for Lenny. I have found qt-kde.debian, Debian Experimental, Testing, Unstable, and Backports. It looks to me that Backports is the best for an everyday user who values stability, and prefers to use released software version. Please let me know where I am mistaken. Thanks. Fedora 12 has KDE 4.4 and it's in a pretty stable shape. Also, it's officially supported, as opposed to OpenSUSE. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4bd078fd.5020...@gmail.com
Re: Moving to Debian: updated software
On Thu, 22 Apr 2010 18:13:49 +0300, Dotan Cohen wrote: >> It's hard for distributions to include the latest KDE SC available >> *and* deliver it as "stable". Rolling distros (such Arch Linux), which >> are always up-to-date, may fit better into this schema. >> >> > That is where a third-party repo would come in, such as Backports. > Kubuntu, for all it's flaws, does this quite well. I understand that so > does Suse. As per openSUSE, yes, they have the OBS (Build Service) with many packages up-to-date and available (backported or not) for the current supported releases *but* remember that packages that fall in there are not "officialy" supported nor included into security patches (they follow their own path to solve any issue that can arise). Anyway, I agree their KDE repos are of very good quality and so very useful for users. Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2010.04.22.15.40...@gmail.com
Re: Moving to Debian: updated software
> It's hard for distributions to include the latest KDE SC available *and* > deliver it as "stable". Rolling distros (such Arch Linux), which are > always up-to-date, may fit better into this schema. > That is where a third-party repo would come in, such as Backports. Kubuntu, for all it's flaws, does this quite well. I understand that so does Suse. > +1 for openSUSE :-) > > But remember that openSUSE 11.2 is still including kde 4.3.5 under their > stable KDE repo. KDESC 4.4 is available under factory/testing repo. > Thanks. -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/g2n880dece01004220813kf0b39546sb60cb9e868491...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Moving to Debian: updated software
On Thu, 22 Apr 2010 17:26:07 +0300, Dotan Cohen wrote: >> Unfortunately, the goals of always having the latest KDE and a stable >> distro are not compatible. >> >> > Not necessarily. KDE has a regular release schedule, with a point > release about once a month. I would consider a distro that included the > latest point releases stable in the sense of no (or few) beta software. It's hard for distributions to include the latest KDE SC available *and* deliver it as "stable". Rolling distros (such Arch Linux), which are always up-to-date, may fit better into this schema. (...) >> Have you asked other KDE contributors about their setups? >> >> > Yes, there is a lot of favour towards Mandriva and Suse. Kubuntu with > Project Timelord is also being mentioned. If I jump ship from a Debian > based distro, it will likely be to Suse. +1 for openSUSE :-) But remember that openSUSE 11.2 is still including kde 4.3.5 under their stable KDE repo. KDESC 4.4 is available under factory/testing repo. Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2010.04.22.15.07...@gmail.com
Re: Moving to Debian: updated software
On 2010-04-22, Dotan Cohen wrote: >> Have you asked other KDE contributors about their setups? >> > > Yes, there is a lot of favour towards Mandriva and Suse. Kubuntu with > Project Timelord is also being mentioned. If I jump ship from a Debian > based distro, it will likely be to Suse. Yes, you are likely to have a more contemporary KDE experience with opensuse, and are more likely to find backported packages when you need them. -- Liam O'Toole Birmingham, United Kingdom -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/slrnht0p7r.bu7.liam.p.oto...@dipsy.selfip.org
Re: Moving to Debian: updated software
> Unfortunately, the goals of always having the latest KDE and a stable distro > are not compatible. > Not necessarily. KDE has a regular release schedule, with a point release about once a month. I would consider a distro that included the latest point releases stable in the sense of no (or few) beta software. > Another thing you could consider: run testing/unstable in a virtual > machine or a chroot on your lenny system. Beware, though, that even in > unstable the upload of major packages can be delayed. > I have tested KDE in a VM in the past, it doesn't work out. I need to use it for everyday work. > Have you asked other KDE contributors about their setups? > Yes, there is a lot of favour towards Mandriva and Suse. Kubuntu with Project Timelord is also being mentioned. If I jump ship from a Debian based distro, it will likely be to Suse. -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/v2s880dece01004220726je1940918k364dbc3818b97...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Moving to Debian: updated software
On 2010-04-22, Dotan Cohen wrote: >> I don't know of any backported binaries, so you would have to compile it >> yourself. That, however, would be a major undertaking, and presupposes >> that the latest KDE4 even compiles against the versions of the various >> libraries included in lenny. >> > > Yes, compiling KDE is not a hassle that I want to take. > > >> An alternative is to upgrade to testing/unstable, but then you would no >> longer have the uncomplicated life of a lenny user :-) >> > > Exactly, I need a stable distro. > > >> Or you could wait for the next stable release, or at least for the >> freeze announcement. >> > > That is not really an option, as I want the _latest_ KDE, not simply > 4.4. I contribute to KDE and it is important for me to be on the > latest version. I cannot be on a distro that is perpetually a few > point releases behind. Unfortunately, the goals of always having the latest KDE and a stable distro are not compatible. > > Thanks, Liam! I am still weighing my options, including Debian-based > distros that may be more up to date. I am currently on Kubuntu, but > the 10.04 release is simply terrible and I'm looking for a new distro. > Suse would be my next choice, but I prefer Debian-based. > Another thing you could consider: run testing/unstable in a virtual machine or a chroot on your lenny system. Beware, though, that even in unstable the upload of major packages can be delayed. Have you asked other KDE contributors about their setups? -- Liam O'Toole Birmingham, United Kingdom -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/slrnht0gta.bu7.liam.p.oto...@dipsy.selfip.org
Re: Moving to Debian: updated software
> I don't know of any backported binaries, so you would have to compile it > yourself. That, however, would be a major undertaking, and presupposes > that the latest KDE4 even compiles against the versions of the various > libraries included in lenny. > Yes, compiling KDE is not a hassle that I want to take. > An alternative is to upgrade to testing/unstable, but then you would no > longer have the uncomplicated life of a lenny user :-) > Exactly, I need a stable distro. > Or you could wait for the next stable release, or at least for the > freeze announcement. > That is not really an option, as I want the _latest_ KDE, not simply 4.4. I contribute to KDE and it is important for me to be on the latest version. I cannot be on a distro that is perpetually a few point releases behind. Thanks, Liam! I am still weighing my options, including Debian-based distros that may be more up to date. I am currently on Kubuntu, but the 10.04 release is simply terrible and I'm looking for a new distro. Suse would be my next choice, but I prefer Debian-based. -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/j2z880dece01004220451xec73c069j4c828e150081d...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Moving to Debian: updated software
On 2010-04-22, Dotan Cohen wrote: ---SNIP--- >From where to acquire KDE 4.4.2 in a reasonably safe manner? I don't know of any backported binaries, so you would have to compile it yourself. That, however, would be a major undertaking, and presupposes that the latest KDE4 even compiles against the versions of the various libraries included in lenny. An alternative is to upgrade to testing/unstable, but then you would no longer have the uncomplicated life of a lenny user :-) Or you could wait for the next stable release, or at least for the freeze announcement. -- Liam O'Toole Birmingham, United Kingdom -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/slrnht0bcs.bu7.liam.p.oto...@dipsy.selfip.org
Re: Moving to Debian: updated software
On 22 April 2010 12:25, Liam O'Toole wrote: > On 2010-04-22, Dotan Cohen wrote: >> I am looking for KDE 4.4.2 and Open Office 3.2 packages for Lenny. I >> have found qt-kde.debian, Debian Experimental, Testing, Unstable, and >> Backports. It looks to me that Backports is the best for an everyday >> user who values stability, and prefers to use released software >> version. Please let me know where I am mistaken. Thanks. >> > > I recommend debian-backports for users of stable who like to cherry-pick > later versions of software without too much hassle. OOo 3.2 is available > in debian-backports, but not KDE4. The debian KDE maintainers used to > offer KDE4 backports for lenny, but they were discontinued early on in > the KDE4 series. > Thank you, Liam. That is why I was unable to find the KDE packages. I thought that I may have been searching on the wrong terms, i.e. the package is not called "kde" or "kde-desktop". >From where to acquire KDE 4.4.2 in a reasonably safe manner? Thanks! -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/q2z880dece01004220251ue268208fmebc004c5e1867...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Moving to Debian: updated software
On 2010-04-22, Dotan Cohen wrote: > I am looking for KDE 4.4.2 and Open Office 3.2 packages for Lenny. I > have found qt-kde.debian, Debian Experimental, Testing, Unstable, and > Backports. It looks to me that Backports is the best for an everyday > user who values stability, and prefers to use released software > version. Please let me know where I am mistaken. Thanks. > I recommend debian-backports for users of stable who like to cherry-pick later versions of software without too much hassle. OOo 3.2 is available in debian-backports, but not KDE4. The debian KDE maintainers used to offer KDE4 backports for lenny, but they were discontinued early on in the KDE4 series. -- Liam O'Toole Birmingham, United Kingdom -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/slrnht05h3.bu7.liam.p.oto...@dipsy.selfip.org
