subject:"Re\: New computer planned"

Am Montag, 20. Februar 2012 schrieb Andrei POPESCU:
   On Lu, 20 feb 12, 14:19:36, Sian Mountbatten wrote:
  My desktop computer is nearly 7 years old and I'm thinking that a
  new computer using some of the hardware improvements would be a good
  thing.
 
  
 
  So I'm going to ask my friendly computer consultant, who is only
  downstairs from me, to build me a computer with hardware 3d
  acceleration, solid-state drive, 8Gb RAM. What else should I ask for
  and what works with Linux? He's going to give me a list of the
  hardware he is going to install, so I can check Linux compatibility.
  Although I am not a gamer, I would like to run tuxracer which really
  needs 3d acceleration to work. Any suggestions will be welcome.
 
 First decision: proprietary drivers or not
 
 For proprietary I'd chose nVidia cards over ATI anytime. While I can't 
 comment on the driver itself, the packaging for nvidia over fglrx in 
 Debian is superior (several generations supported, pre-built modules
 for  stable, backports, responsive maintainers, etc.).
 
 If you definitely don't want to use proprietary drivers you can also 
 consider Intel cards (or even built-in), since I expect the
 performance  of either nVidia or ATI cards with the free drivers to be
 comparable with Intel.
 
 OTOH I doubt tuxracer has very high 3d performance requirements.

Extreme Tuxracer plays nicely here in Full HD on Intel Sandybridge as well 
as Supertuxkart - the later except some sudden stuttering for a few 
seconds every now and then the last time I played it, but that seems to be 
a driver issue and might be fixed meanwhile. 

When deciding to go with Intel and its not that important to buy the new 
computer now, it might even be worthwhile to wait for 2 to 3 months in 
order to buy a computer with the new Ivybridge. It has even faster 
internal graphics. From the raw CPU speed there should not be that much of 
a difference between the two architectures as far as I read. Using 
Ivybridge will require new kernel and driver versions, but even for 
Sandybridge Debian Squeeze is too old unless backported X.org, Kernel and 
Mesa drivers in suitable versions exist. Kernel 3.2 is backported, I am 
not sure about the other ones.

Ciao,
-- 
Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de
GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA  B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7


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Re: New computer planned

Am Dienstag, 21. Februar 2012 schrieb Celejar:
 Curt Howland howl...@priss.com wrote:
 
 ...
 
  It is my understanding that the Intel-based graphics cards work
  perfectly well with the standard Linux drivers, if you want to stay
  purely open-source.
 
 That's what everyone says, but it's not as true as it might be. Squeeze
 is shipping X stuff / drivers that cause GPU crashes on my (2007 era)
 Thinkpad T61 with Intel GM965 graphics:
 
 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44478

Did you every try with backported X stuff and drivers if available? Or 
Wheezy?

Squeeze stuff is rather old by now.

Well as for what you´d buy today: The Intel drivers work quite well for 
Sandybridge in the meanwhile.

-- 
Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de
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Re: New computer planned

Am Montag, 20. Februar 2012 schrieb Andrei POPESCU:
 On Lu, 20 feb 12, 17:09:45, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
  On Mon, 2012-02-20 at 16:58 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
   On Mon, 2012-02-20 at 16:58 +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
If you definitely don't want to use proprietary drivers you can
also consider Intel cards (or even built-in)
  
  Do they have 3D support?
 
 Yes, but not as good as nVidia/ATI.

Driverwise or hardwarewise?

Hardwarewise they are slower than recent dedicated gfx cards.

Driverwise the support is excellent for opensource drivers.

Compared to proprietary NVidia driver, maybe also proprietary ATI driver 
its still lacking when it comes to supported OpenGL features.

-- 
Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de
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Re: New computer planned

Am Montag, 20. Februar 2012 schrieb David Christensen:
 On 02/20/2012 06:58 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
  If you definitely don't want to use proprietary drivers you can also
  consider Intel cards (or even built-in),
 
 I prefer full FOSS HW support OOTB and have had the best experiences
 with Intel processors and integrated motherboards (video, sound,
 PATA/SATA, LAN, serial, parallel, PS/2, USB, etc.).
 
 
 Does Squeeze have full FOSS HW support OOTB for the Intel
 Second-Generation Core processors and Q67 chipset motherboards?  Does
 Wheezy?  Sid?  As other posters have mentioned, checking HCL's is
 difficult at best.

I recommend Wheezy for Sandybridge. For Squeeze you´d need recent 
backports of kernel, X.org and mesa.

 I'm considering building a Debian Gnome 64-bit desktop and a Debian Xen
 or XCP 64-bit server using i5-2500S processors and DQ67SW motherboards:
 
 
 http://ark.intel.com/products/52211/Intel-Core-i5-2500S-Processor-%286M
 -Cache-2_70-GHz%29
 
  http://ark.intel.com/products/51997/Intel-Desktop-Board-DQ67SW
 
 Any comments from people running Debian, Gnome, Xen, or XCP on these
 parts?

I only run on laptop so far. Here with Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2520M CPU @ 
2.50GHz dualcore with hyperthreading. It rocks.

I suggest using a SSD with that ;).

Ciao,
-- 
Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de
GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA  B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7


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Re: New computer planned

Am Montag, 20. Februar 2012 schrieb Ralf Mardorf:
 On Mon, 2012-02-20 at 10:17 -0500, Allan Wind wrote:
  Memory is cheap.  More is better as Linux uses it for disk cache 
  if nothing else.
 
 For heavy audio production I never noticed that even the swap gets
 touched with 4GB RAM.

That does not give any clue whether Linux would use more RAM as disk cache 
if it had it. Linux might not touch swap yet even when it would utilize 
more RAM for disk caching and thus be faster with more RAM.

Well lets have a closer look on a 8 GB machine:

martin@merkaba:~ free -m 
 total   used   free sharedbuffers cached
Mem:  7783   4559   3223  0201   1082
-/+ buffers/cache:   3275   4507
Swap:12287282  12005

Already here Linux utilizes more than 4 GB of RAM. But it doesn´t use all 
8 GB of RAM, not even for disk caches. But after waking up from 
hibernation to disk it was not running for long today.

One KDE 4.7.4 session, Kontact, KMail, some other small apps.

Now I start LibreOffice Writer 3.4.5 and Iceweasel 10:

martin@merkaba:~ free -m
 total   used   free sharedbuffers cached
Mem:  7783   4891   2891  0202   1302
-/+ buffers/cache:   3386   4397
Swap:12287281  12006

Linux continues to utilize even more memory.

Minus caching already 3,3 GB RAM is in use. So with 4 GB RAM there would 
not be much space for disk caching. Granted that some applications might 
be less greedy with memory allocations when not so much of it is 
available.


So while 4 GB would work for a KDE session with some apps, heck even 2 GB 
would work, 8 GB should give some performance boost - possibly rather 
little, considering that the Intel SSD 320 in that ThinkPad T520 is quite 
fast for an SATA 300 SSD. But still RAM is an order of magnitude faster. 
10 times at least compared to an SSD. More than that for a harddisk.

Given the price of RAM I would put 8 GB in for 64 bit Linux. At least I 
would make sure that I have the option to do it later. Which should be 
true for any recent desktop/tower motherboard - when its not for Atom or 
something like that.

-- 
Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de
GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA  B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7


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Re: New computer planned

Am Montag, 20. Februar 2012 schrieb Andrei POPESCU:
 On Lu, 20 feb 12, 16:29:18, Doug wrote:
  You need a real mechanical hard drive.  The solid-state drives have
  a  limited read/write cycle.
 
 Recent studies seem to suggest that the limited read/write cycles are
 unlikely to affect normal usage.

Intel SSD 320 is specced a useful life of at least 5 years at up to 20 GB 
host writes each day.¹

Intel has a rather low annual failure rate.² Once I read some article 
about numbers from other vendors with have been higher, but I do not 
remember what it was anymore.

Still 0,4% annual failure rate for X25-M is 4 drives out of 1000 in one 
year and it is always good to keep a backup! I have not yet seen numbers 
for Intel SSD 320 tough and they have had and probably even still have a 8 
MB bug. Search Heise Open for that, they have a good article on it.

Well I am not more worried than with harddisks. And up to now not even one 
harddisks in my private use ever really failed. One Samsung 2,5 inch 
thought it had SMART errors after some sudden power losses, but even that 
one still worked. I had it replaced anyway.

[1] http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/solid-state-drives/ssd-320-
specification.html

[2] http://www.anandtech.com/show/4244/intel-ssd-320-review

Ciao,
-- 
Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de
GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA  B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7


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Re: New computer planned

Am Freitag, 24. Februar 2012 schrieb Martin Steigerwald:
 Still 0,4% annual failure rate for X25-M is 4 drives out of 1000 in
 one  year and it is always good to keep a backup! I have not yet seen
 numbers for Intel SSD 320 tough and they have had and probably even
 still have a 8 MB bug. Search Heise Open for that, they have a good
 article on it.

On sudden power loss. Quite rarely. But when it happens the SSD reports 
its 8 MB big and needs to be replaced.

Ironically AFAIC it comes from an issue related to the capacitors on the 
SSD that should allow the SSD to complete pending writes in case of a 
power loss.

There has been a firmware update that I applied. But it has not been clear, 
whether it really fixes the issue even when it should.

Well, this one still works ;). And the laptop has a battery in it.

-- 
Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de
GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA  B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7


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Re: New computer planned

2012-02-24 Thread Doug


On 02/24/2012 09:22 AM, Martin Steigerwald wrote:

Am Dienstag, 21. Februar 2012 schrieb Celejar:

Curt Howlandhowl...@priss.com  wrote:

...


It is my understanding that the Intel-based graphics cards work
perfectly well with the standard Linux drivers, if you want to stay
purely open-source.

That's what everyone says, but it's not as true as it might be. Squeeze
is shipping X stuff / drivers that cause GPU crashes on my (2007 era)
Thinkpad T61 with Intel GM965 graphics:

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44478



/snip/

Just a little philosophy here:  You may have groked, by now, that there 
is a fanatical fringe of Linux users
who would not use anything but Open Source software that is not 
encumbered by a manufacturer's name,
like NVidia, or Mozilla, etc.  You may or may not be in that group, but 
if you are not, then don't let those
who are beat you down.  Use what works!  (Just as some of us use Windows 
when it's reasonable to do so.
For instance, if you have Photoshop on your Win machine, it would be 
plain stupid to force yourself into
using Gimp, and if you have AutoCad, why fool with lesser programs that 
may be free/open-source, but
not only don't have all the capability, but would require you to learn a 
new paradigm to use them. And I
wait in hope for Corel to bring WordPerfect back to Linux, but for 
serious writing, I will cheerfully go to

Windows, where it lives.  Not free.  Not open-source.  Works!)

/rant off

--doug


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Re: New computer planned

2012-02-24 Thread David Christensen


On 02/24/2012 06:34 AM, Martin Steigerwald wrote:

I recommend Wheezy for Sandybridge. For Squeeze you´d need recent
backports of kernel, X.org and mesa.


That's what I thought.  Thanks for the confirmation.  :-)


David


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Re: New computer planned

2012-02-23 Thread Miles Bader

Curt Howland howl...@priss.com writes:
 The only thing I did for Linux compatibility was to not get on-board
 graphics. I bought an Nvidia-based graphics card that was not
 bleeding edge, even though it's got 3D acceleration. The card has
 it's own RAM, so system RAM is not shared, which is a very good thing,
 and it drives 3D games perfectly well using the Nvidia supplied
 graphics driver.

 It is my understanding that the Intel-based graphics cards work
 perfectly well with the standard Linux drivers, if you want to stay
 purely open-source.

Radeon GPUs also seem to work pretty much flawlessly with the default
free drivers these days.

-miles

-- 
Love is the difficult realization that something other than oneself is real.
[Iris Murdoch]


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Re: New computer planned

2012-02-22 Thread Monsieur Louk

I wouldn't worry about SSD failure. At least, not as much as one usually
worries about HDD failure :)

The guys at hardware.fr did a nice experiment: they set up a computer to do
continuous write-erase cycles on an SSD in order to see how long it would
last, and when performance decreases would start. The drive handled about
600 TB of write operations before it started to show problems. I think
you'll admit this is enough for average usage.

The 8800GT though, that's another story. It's kind of an outdated GPU, not
one I'd put in a recent PC, especially one that comes at £599. Bear in mind
there are no really expensive hardware except the SSD. I think you could
haggle a bit on the price and/or ask for a higher-end/more modern GPU :)

If you really want to be picky, the Crucial M4 series of SSDs got better
reviews than the Agility 3 series. That and the fact OCZ has got a bit of
bad rep for their customer service (although that will be your colleague's
problem, not yours).

Re: New computer planned

2012-02-22 Thread Sian Mountbatten


Andrei POPESCU wrote:

On Ma, 21 feb 12, 22:58:03, Sian Mountbatten wrote:

It will have Intel Core i5-2400 3.10GHz Socket LGA1155, MSI Z68S REV
B3 motherboard, 8GB DDR3 1600MHz RAM, Nvidia GeForce 8800GT 256MB
PCI-Express graphics, an SSD OCZ Agility 3 120GB 2.5 SATA instead
of a hard disk drive, a Samsung DVD-RW SATA, Onboard 7.1 channel HD
Audio, Onboard 10/100/1000 Mbps Lan, 802.11B/G/N WiFi, an ATX +
Cooler Master 450W PSU and NO OS. He knows I use Linux. He's going
to charge me £599 and I think it's worth the money, because if
anything goes wrong, he's just downstairs.


Just two comments:

- only 256 MB seems low by todays standards
- do you need WiFi?

Kind regards,
Andrei
Wifi: yes. I do not have broadband. The consultant has a Wifi network 
which I can pick up in my living room. So I get broadband access for 
only £6/month. Pretty good considering that there are no download 
limitations. And unless the internet is really busy, I get as much as 
1.8MB/sec download speed. Considering that I do not download films, I 
reckon that my online usage is reasonable.


I'm a pretty small player in the internet stakes. Apart from downloading 
ISOs to install Linux from, and packages from Debian, I don't do much 
downloading.


I don't even have a landline telephone. Just a mobile. So broadband 
access is very cheap for me. I have no complaints about the setup. And 
my mobile phone is not on a contract: I just pay for my calls by direct 
debit. My monthly mobile phone payment is usually less than £10. So I 
can't complain!


Regards
--
Sian Mountbatten
Algol 68 specialist (www.poenikatu.co.uk)


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Re: New computer planned

2012-02-22 Thread Randy Kramer

Sian (and all),

Congratulations on the work you've done with Algol, Literate Programming, and 
such!  Those are all interests of mine, as well,   (Well, from Algol, I 
eventually moved on to Pascal, and never really grokked C/C++, although I'm 
still making sporadic efforts to learn enough C++ to write a lexer for the 
TWiki markup language for the Scintilla family of editors.)

I'd be interested in seeing what you've done with Literate Programming--part 
of what I'm doing with TWiki markup and a lexer for Scintilla has literate 
programming as one of its goals.

I tried (briefly) looking at your web site for something about your literate 
progamming system, but did not notice anything.

Randy Kramer

PS: I've cc'd you because the list is so busy--if you respond to me and want 
me to see it, I'd request you do the same--I don't always read (or even skim) 
the list--usually only after I've asked a question and am watching for an 
answer.

On Tuesday 21 February 2012 05:58:03 pm Sian Mountbatten wrote:
 On the software development front, I use the programming language Algol
 68, which is a high-level language. C is a medium-level language. I have
 spent years in porting an old compiler to Linux, providing a decent
 run-time system and even writing a 600-page book to teach the language
 from scratch. I have developed my own Literate Programming System which
 I shall be completing during the coming months. I have written an Algol
 68 binding to the Xforms library so that it is possible to write GUI
 programs without any bother. And, more recently, I now have a web-site
 with more than 150 pages for the book, as well as a manual for the
 software development system I use. The site is in my signature.



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Re: New computer planned

2012-02-22 Thread Kelly Clowers

On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 01:19, Sian Mountbatten
poenik...@fastmail.co.uk wrote:

 Wifi: yes. I do not have broadband. The consultant has a Wifi network which
 I can pick up in my living room.

Ah, I did not see this when I wrote my response.

Check on the card/chipset. As I said, drivers can still be iffy,
though much better than they used to be.

I would go with chips from Atheros or Intel, personally.


Cheers,
Kelly Clowers


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Re: New computer planned -- (cleaning old keyboard)

2012-02-22 Thread Patrick Bartek





 On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 02:19:36PM +, Sian Mountbatten wrote:

  Maybe I should keep the keyboard I am using.
  It's not overly clean, but I can live with it.
 
   How to clean a dirty (fatty) keyboard:
   --
 
 Mix liquid ammonia concentrate (NH4-OH) + cold (!) water in a bucket;
 hold your keyboard with them keys down (!) above the bucket;
 
 use a softly scrubbing brush (horse hair = less sqirting) wetted w/ mixture
 and brush the keys from underneath, moving brush softly along their gaps;
 
 keep the keyboard upside down, so the cleaning agent will not enter any
 keyboard contact, and put the keyboard on a warm place in order to get all
 water w/ ammonia completely evaporated.
 
 (Ammonia itself won't leave any residue.)


I just use 90% pure (or better) isopropyl alcohol undiluted, and a soft, 
lint-free cloth.  Just spray on.  Cleans all the crud off, and evaporates 
quickly.  Most pharmacies carry it.  Don't mistakenly buy rubbing alcohol.  It 
has oil in it.  It's made for massage.  You don't want that.

B


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Re: New computer planned

2012-02-22 Thread Dan Ritter

On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 10:58:03PM +, Sian Mountbatten wrote:
 The computer consultant has actually printed out on a piece of
 A5-sized paper just what he's offering. I'm going to ignore the
 Intel Core i3-2100 with 4GB DDR3 1333MHz RAM and get the higher
 spec. machine.
 It will have Intel Core i5-2400 3.10GHz Socket LGA1155, MSI Z68S REV
 B3 motherboard, 8GB DDR3 1600MHz RAM, Nvidia GeForce 8800GT 256MB
 PCI-Express graphics, an SSD OCZ Agility 3 120GB 2.5 SATA instead
 of a hard disk drive, a Samsung DVD-RW SATA, Onboard 7.1 channel HD
 Audio, Onboard 10/100/1000 Mbps Lan, 802.11B/G/N WiFi, an ATX +
 Cooler Master 450W PSU and NO OS. He knows I use Linux. He's going
 to charge me £599 and I think it's worth the money, because if
 anything goes wrong, he's just downstairs.

If you're going with an NVidia card, use a GT220 or 430. They
are reasonably cheap, and are the highest end cards for which
all functions are completely supported.

The 8800GT is a power-sucking beast from a previous generation.

-dsr-

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Re: New computer planned

2012-02-21 Thread Andrei POPESCU

On Lu, 20 feb 12, 19:38:30, Doug wrote:
 After the plug game, the k/b works fine, and I never used a numberpad
 anyway--all my boards have numbers on the top row--don't all of them?

Yes, but the numpad is very efficient if you have to input a lot of 
numbers.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: New computer planned

2012-02-21 Thread Randy Kramer

On Monday 20 February 2012 10:17:46 am Allan Wind wrote:
 You did not mention monitors but high definition has brought the
 larger ones way down in price.  30 monitors (2560x1600) are
 still in a different price league but to me it is worth it.  If
 you are buying a 30 consider one with Display Ports instead of
 DVI.  Lenovo's docking station for the W520, for instance, can
 only do the 30 at full resolution via Display Port (this was not
 an issue with earlier versions).  The are DVI to Display Port
 converters but the ones I have are not 100% stable (I probably
 power cycle it a couple of times per month).

Or, consider two smaller monitors and use nVidia's TwinView (their proprietary 
driver)--I haven't tried the open source driver yet.

Randy Kramer


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Re: New computer planned

2012-02-21 Thread Kelly Clowers

On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 07:48, Randy Kramer rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Monday 20 February 2012 10:17:46 am Allan Wind wrote:
 You did not mention monitors but high definition has brought the
 larger ones way down in price.  30 monitors (2560x1600) are
 still in a different price league but to me it is worth it.  If
 you are buying a 30 consider one with Display Ports instead of
 DVI.  Lenovo's docking station for the W520, for instance, can
 only do the 30 at full resolution via Display Port (this was not
 an issue with earlier versions).  The are DVI to Display Port
 converters but the ones I have are not 100% stable (I probably
 power cycle it a couple of times per month).

 Or, consider two smaller monitors and use nVidia's TwinView (their proprietary
 driver)--I haven't tried the open source driver yet.

Nothing special about dual monitors, just use xrandr. Works with
Nvidia, ATI and Intel chips.


Cheers,
Kelly Clowers


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Re: New computer planned -- (cleaning old keyboard)

2012-02-21 Thread Wilko Fokken

On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 02:19:36PM +, Sian Mountbatten wrote:
 Maybe I should keep the keyboard I am using.
 It's not overly clean, but I can live with it.

 --
 Sian Mountbatten
 Algol 68 specialist


Moin mitnanner,


  How to clean a dirty (fatty) keyboard:
  --

Mix liquid ammonia concentrate (NH4-OH) + cold (!) water in a bucket;
hold your keyboard with them keys down (!) above the bucket;

use a softly scrubbing brush (horse hair = less sqirting) wetted w/ mixture
and brush the keys from underneath, moving brush softly along their gaps;

keep the keyboard upside down, so the cleaning agent will not enter any
keyboard contact, and put the keyboard on a warm place in order to get all
water w/ ammonia completely evaporated.

(Ammonia itself won't leave any residue.)


Good luck!


W. Fokken

-- 
.
Education is a man's going
from cocksure ignorance
to thoughtful uncertainty.


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Re: New computer planned

2012-02-21 Thread Celejar

On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 10:15:13 -0500
Curt Howland howl...@priss.com wrote:

...

 It is my understanding that the Intel-based graphics cards work
 perfectly well with the standard Linux drivers, if you want to stay
 purely open-source.

That's what everyone says, but it's not as true as it might be. Squeeze
is shipping X stuff / drivers that cause GPU crashes on my (2007 era)
Thinkpad T61 with Intel GM965 graphics:

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44478

Celejar


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Re: New computer planned

2012-02-21 Thread Tom H

On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 3:49 PM, Celejar cele...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 10:15:13 -0500
 Curt Howland howl...@priss.com wrote:

 It is my understanding that the Intel-based graphics cards work
 perfectly well with the standard Linux drivers, if you want to stay
 purely open-source.

 That's what everyone says, but it's not as true as it might be. Squeeze
 is shipping X stuff / drivers that cause GPU crashes on my (2007 era)
 Thinkpad T61 with Intel GM965 graphics:

 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44478

The last entry on that bug report is that it's fixed.


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Re: New computer planned

2012-02-21 Thread Sian Mountbatten


Tom H wrote:

On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 3:49 PM, Celejarcele...@gmail.com  wrote:

On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 10:15:13 -0500
Curt Howlandhowl...@priss.com  wrote:


It is my understanding that the Intel-based graphics cards work
perfectly well with the standard Linux drivers, if you want to stay
purely open-source.

Well, the comments on this thread have made interesting reading.

The computer consultant has actually printed out on a piece of A5-sized 
paper just what he's offering. I'm going to ignore the Intel Core 
i3-2100 with 4GB DDR3 1333MHz RAM and get the higher spec. machine.
It will have Intel Core i5-2400 3.10GHz Socket LGA1155, MSI Z68S REV B3 
motherboard, 8GB DDR3 1600MHz RAM, Nvidia GeForce 8800GT 256MB 
PCI-Express graphics, an SSD OCZ Agility 3 120GB 2.5 SATA instead of a 
hard disk drive, a Samsung DVD-RW SATA, Onboard 7.1 channel HD Audio, 
Onboard 10/100/1000 Mbps Lan, 802.11B/G/N WiFi, an ATX + Cooler Master 
450W PSU and NO OS. He knows I use Linux. He's going to charge me £599 
and I think it's worth the money, because if anything goes wrong, he's 
just downstairs.


It's quite possible I could get a lower price on the Internet, but I 
wouldn't have the service and backup. Anyway, I'm not so skint that I 
cannot give some cash for a good computer. My present desktop is over 
7.5 years old and is still going strong. Its power-supply blew up with a 
bang last year, and I bought a big thin TFT screen to replace the one 
that came with the computer.


I'll be keeping my keyboard and the display, and very likely, the mouse. 
So no change there.


What do you think, guys? Do you reckon it will drive Linux like the 
clappers? Nothing like a bit of oomph to liven one's days, eh?


On the software development front, I use the programming language Algol 
68, which is a high-level language. C is a medium-level language. I have 
spent years in porting an old compiler to Linux, providing a decent 
run-time system and even writing a 600-page book to teach the language 
from scratch. I have developed my own Literate Programming System which 
I shall be completing during the coming months. I have written an Algol 
68 binding to the Xforms library so that it is possible to write GUI 
programs without any bother. And, more recently, I now have a web-site 
with more than 150 pages for the book, as well as a manual for the 
software development system I use. The site is in my signature.


Thanks for all your comments.
--
Sian Mountbatten
www.poenikatu.co.uk


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Re: New computer planned

2012-02-21 Thread Andrei POPESCU

On Ma, 21 feb 12, 22:58:03, Sian Mountbatten wrote:
 It will have Intel Core i5-2400 3.10GHz Socket LGA1155, MSI Z68S REV
 B3 motherboard, 8GB DDR3 1600MHz RAM, Nvidia GeForce 8800GT 256MB
 PCI-Express graphics, an SSD OCZ Agility 3 120GB 2.5 SATA instead
 of a hard disk drive, a Samsung DVD-RW SATA, Onboard 7.1 channel HD
 Audio, Onboard 10/100/1000 Mbps Lan, 802.11B/G/N WiFi, an ATX +
 Cooler Master 450W PSU and NO OS. He knows I use Linux. He's going
 to charge me £599 and I think it's worth the money, because if
 anything goes wrong, he's just downstairs.

Just two comments:

- only 256 MB seems low by todays standards
- do you need WiFi?

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: New computer planned

2012-02-21 Thread Nick Lidakis

On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 12:48:32AM +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
 On Lu, 20 feb 12, 16:29:18, Doug wrote:
  
  You need a real mechanical hard drive.  The solid-state drives have
  a  limited read/write cycle. 
 
 Recent studies seem to suggest that the limited read/write cycles are 
 unlikely to affect normal usage.

Andrei,

What do you think about this article on SSD and errors?
Link:http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9224322/SSDs_have_a_bleak_future_researchers_say


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Re: New computer planned

2012-02-21 Thread Stan Hoeppner

On 2/21/2012 9:15 PM, Nick Lidakis wrote:

 What do you think about this article on SSD and errors?
 Link:http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9224322/SSDs_have_a_bleak_future_researchers_say

I'll tell you in 2024 at 6.5nm when we reach the end.

In the mean time, anyone using a consumer MLC SSD needs to be far more
concerned about device failure due to mundane things like basic product
quality, rather than cells wearing out over time.  For instance...

My first foray into SSD was a Corsair V32.  After less than 4 months,
out of the blue one day, the machine locked up and upon reboot the BIOS
didn't see the SSD.  This was installed in a typical workstation--very
low write load.  The RMA replacement unit thus far has been flawless.
/me knocks on wood

My sister's 5 year old HP has a failing 250GB SATA SRD (spinning rust
disk).  I gave her some options and brief education, and she ordered an
Intel MLC SSD from Newegg.  Slightly more money than competitors but
Intel is fanatical about QC, and we shouldn't have to worry about the
thing dying for many years.  After being burned by the Corsair I
recommended she go top shelf.

-- 
Stan


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Re: New computer planned

On Lu, 20 feb 12, 14:19:36, Sian Mountbatten wrote:
 My desktop computer is nearly 7 years old and I'm thinking that a
 new computer using some of the hardware improvements would be a good
 thing.
 
 So I'm going to ask my friendly computer consultant, who is only
 downstairs from me, to build me a computer with hardware 3d
 acceleration, solid-state drive, 8Gb RAM. What else should I ask for
 and what works with Linux? He's going to give me a list of the
 hardware he is going to install, so I can check Linux compatibility.
 Although I am not a gamer, I would like to run tuxracer which really
 needs 3d acceleration to work. Any suggestions will be welcome.

First decision: proprietary drivers or not

For proprietary I'd chose nVidia cards over ATI anytime. While I can't 
comment on the driver itself, the packaging for nvidia over fglrx in 
Debian is superior (several generations supported, pre-built modules for 
stable, backports, responsive maintainers, etc.).

If you definitely don't want to use proprietary drivers you can also 
consider Intel cards (or even built-in), since I expect the performance 
of either nVidia or ATI cards with the free drivers to be comparable 
with Intel.

OTOH I doubt tuxracer has very high 3d performance requirements.
 
 Keyboard: for many years now, I have used a keyboard which is not
 membrane-based. It has individual key switches, is properly dished
 and is a joy to use. No keyboard click, but I don't use that anyway.
 The keyboard is connected to the PS/2 socket. Would a wireless
 keyboard do as good a job? I suppose it would probably be USB, but I
 shall listen to advice on that. The keyboard is an essential
 peripheral and I am willing to spend money on a good keyboard. Maybe
 I should keep the keyboard I am using. It's not overly clean, but I
 can live with it.

Make sure the new mainboard even has a PS/2 interface, otherwise you'll 
have to use USB adapters (which can cause problems sometimes).

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: New computer planned

2012-02-20 Thread Curt Howland

Sian Mountbatten poenik...@fastmail.co.uk wrote:
 So I'm going to ask my friendly computer consultant, who is only
 downstairs from me, to build me a computer with hardware 3d
 acceleration, solid-state drive, 8Gb RAM. What else should I ask for and
 what works with Linux?

Sian,

Two years ago I did the same thing. Quad-core 3GHz AMD Phenom2, 4G of
1600DDR3 RAM, etc.

Everything on my ASRock and Asus motherboards has worked perfectly
with Linux. In that regard, I don't think you have anything to worry
about.

The only thing I did for Linux compatibility was to not get on-board
graphics. I bought an Nvidia-based graphics card that was not
bleeding edge, even though it's got 3D acceleration. The card has
it's own RAM, so system RAM is not shared, which is a very good thing,
and it drives 3D games perfectly well using the Nvidia supplied
graphics driver.

It is my understanding that the Intel-based graphics cards work
perfectly well with the standard Linux drivers, if you want to stay
purely open-source.

I also kept my old keyboard, since the motherboards all still have PS2
sockets for keyboards. I have tried wireless keyboards, and they have
not been 100% reliable for me.

Curt-


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Re: New computer planned

2012-02-20 Thread Lisi

On Monday 20 February 2012 14:19:36 Sian Mountbatten wrote:
 It's not overly clean, but I can live with it.

Perhaps clean it???  I use methylated spirit here in the UK.  You just want 
alcohol, a lint-free cloth and cotton buds.  Then you would not have to live 
with it.

I would certainly recommend keeping your keyboard if you have one you like.

Lisi


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Re: New computer planned

2012-02-20 Thread Allan Wind

Hi Sian,

Memory is cheap.  More is better as Linux uses it for disk cache 
if nothing else.

There is a large difference in performance of SSDs and the score 
board changes fairly quickly.  Make sure you have non-crippled 
SATA 3 controller to get most out of them.

Consider some of the high-end laptops.  I have been happy with 
Lenovo's T and W series.  The W520 comes with NVIDIA Quadro M1000 
or M2000 cards which have 3d acceleration.  Docking stations 
are convenient.

I treasure my Kineses Freestyle keyboards as they eliminated the 
pain that I was starting to get.

You did not mention monitors but high definition has brought the 
larger ones way down in price.  30 monitors (2560x1600) are 
still in a different price league but to me it is worth it.  If 
you are buying a 30 consider one with Display Ports instead of 
DVI.  Lenovo's docking station for the W520, for instance, can 
only do the 30 at full resolution via Display Port (this was not 
an issue with earlier versions).  The are DVI to Display Port 
converters but the ones I have are not 100% stable (I probably 
power cycle it a couple of times per month).


/Allan
-- 
Allan Wind
Life Integrity, LLC
http://lifeintegrity.com


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Re: New computer planned

2012-02-20 Thread Rob Owens

On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 02:19:36PM +, Sian Mountbatten wrote:
 My desktop computer is nearly 7 years old and I'm thinking that a
 new computer using some of the hardware improvements would be a good
 thing.
 
If you plan to use wireless networking, make sure you check reviews on
newegg, amazon, etc. for the particular wireless card you plan to buy --
make sure it is Linux-compatible.

-Rob


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On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 06:19, Sian Mountbatten
poenik...@fastmail.co.uk wrote:
My desktop computer is nearly 7 years old and I'm thinking that a new
computer using some of the hardware improvements would be a good thing.

So I'm going to ask my friendly computer consultant, who is only downstairs
from me, to build me a computer with hardware 3d acceleration, solid-state
drive, 8Gb RAM.

Good. Note that it actually on the difficult side to build a desktop computer
without 3D. You would have to not use integrated graphics and find an ancient
PCI (or maybe AGP?) video card that did not have 3D. I imagine that your
current computer has 3D, though just possibly if it was crummy when you
got it, it may have only pre-GeForce non-programmable 3D.

For the SSD, check what he plans to put in there. Intel or something
with a SandForce (OCZ, et. al.) controller will bring the best performance,
though the cheaper ones will still outperform spinning disks.

Depending on how much data you have, and how much you want to
spend, a large HDD might be in order as well, since a large SSD is
only 128-256 GB, and is still expensive.

8 gigs has been serving me very well.

What else should I ask for and what works with Linux? He's
going to give me a list of the hardware he is going to install, so I can
check Linux compatibility. Although I am not a gamer, I would like to run
tuxracer which really needs 3d acceleration to work. Any suggestions will be
welcome.

Any 3D chip will handle it. I am not sure where the cutoff would be, but
for sure anything from the last 5 years

If TuxRacer/PlanetPenguin and similar (and maybe composited desktop)
is really all you need from 3D, I highly recommend going with Intel integrated
graphics. Simple excellent Open Source drivers, and plenty of power for what
you are looking at. Especially if you are building a true modern system, the
Sandy Bridge graphics are quite nice (though, as always, there is something
just around the corner: Ivy bridge is coming up)

Keyboard: for many years now, I have used a keyboard which is not
membrane-based. It has individual key switches, is properly dished and is a
joy to use. No keyboard click, but I don't use that anyway. The keyboard is
connected to the PS/2 socket. Would a wireless keyboard do as good a job? I
suppose it would probably be USB, but I shall listen to advice on that. The
keyboard is an essential peripheral and I am willing to spend money on a
good keyboard. Maybe I should keep the keyboard I am using. It's not overly
clean, but I can live with it.

They are still making motherboards with PS/2 ports (well, usually just one).
USB would be as good. Wireless - aside from needing batteries replaced,
there can indeed be input lag or interference. Usually nothing major, but it
can be noticeable at times. I am not a fan, unless you are using it from a
couch to control a home theater PC or something.

I'm not in my twenties anymore and I have no agression to work off with
snazzy games (which probably only work on Windoze anyway).

I am leaving my 20s, but those games can be fun once in a while.
A pretty fair number of games run fine on Wine, and there are
actually a large number of FPSs that are native on Linux.

Software
development and software development support are my forte. Some of the
simple games available on Linux provide sufficient entertainment for me, but
I think that a new computer is one new year gift I could do with.

It should make some things nicer I think.

Cheers,
Kelly Clowers

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Re: New computer planned

On Mon, 2012-02-20 at 16:58 +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
 On Lu, 20 feb 12, 14:19:36, Sian Mountbatten wrote:
  My desktop computer is nearly 7 years old and I'm thinking that a
  new computer using some of the hardware improvements would be a good
  thing.
  
  So I'm going to ask my friendly computer consultant, who is only
  downstairs from me, to build me a computer with hardware 3d
  acceleration, solid-state drive, 8Gb RAM. What else should I ask for
  and what works with Linux? He's going to give me a list of the
  hardware he is going to install, so I can check Linux compatibility.
  Although I am not a gamer, I would like to run tuxracer which really
  needs 3d acceleration to work. Any suggestions will be welcome.

You can't check for perfect Linux compatibility just by a list of the
hardware. Regarding to your needs a combination of hardware always can
cause issues.

I experienced that 4GB are even enough for heavy audio productions. I
suspect that there are less fields off applications, where you need more
than 4GB.

 First decision: proprietary drivers or not
 
 For proprietary I'd chose nVidia cards over ATI anytime. While I can't 
 comment on the driver itself, the packaging for nvidia over fglrx in 
 Debian is superior (several generations supported, pre-built modules for 
 stable, backports, responsive maintainers, etc.).

I've got bad experiences with NVIDI, so I bought a mobo with an onboard
ATI. The ATI caused an unsolvable issue, so I bought a NVIDI for the
mobo with the internal ATI. IOW I agree, I experienced ATI as more worse
than NVIDIA. I heard that the best solution should be to get a mobo with
an Intel graphics. Especially today most distros dropped the nv driver,
but the proprietary can't be used all the times. The nouveau driver for
most distros, including Debian ex testing, is the only alternative to
the proprietary one.

 If you definitely don't want to use proprietary drivers you can also 
 consider Intel cards (or even built-in), since I expect the performance 
 of either nVidia or ATI cards with the free drivers to be comparable 
 with Intel.
 
 OTOH I doubt tuxracer has very high 3d performance requirements.

:D

IMO it's more important to get a passive graphics, they are all fast
enough to race with Tux through GoogleEarth. Perhaps you need something
special like HDMI or video composite.

Get a PSU with a large fan.

Get a CPU that has less power consumption.

I'm using an Athlon BE-2350 2.1GHz dual-core, 45W. it's fast enough even
for heavy audio productions, anyway, sometimes I wish to have something
faster, when compiling a kernel or converting a video.

I always use two HDDs, to make backups from one to the other, but just
two, to get less noise and power consumption.
The casing is the week point of my machine.

  Keyboard: for many years now, I have used a keyboard which is not
  membrane-based. It has individual key switches, is properly dished
  and is a joy to use. No keyboard click, but I don't use that anyway.
  The keyboard is connected to the PS/2 socket. Would a wireless
  keyboard do as good a job? I suppose it would probably be USB, but I
  shall listen to advice on that. The keyboard is an essential
  peripheral and I am willing to spend money on a good keyboard. Maybe
  I should keep the keyboard I am using. It's not overly clean, but I
  can live with it.
 
 Make sure the new mainboard even has a PS/2 interface, otherwise you'll 
 have to use USB adapters (which can cause problems sometimes).

It's always a PITA to use a new mouse or keyboard. Keep the once you've
got as long as possible.

Take care of PCI, and the different PCIe slots if you need them. You can
drop ATA, all you need is SATA, IOW buy new HDDs if needed.

If you want good audio quality buy RME cards only. If you need MIDI,
avoid USB.

- Ralf



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Re: New computer planned

2012-02-20 Thread Kelly Clowers

On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 07:15, Curt Howland howl...@priss.com wrote:


 The only thing I did for Linux compatibility was to not get on-board
 graphics.

Onboard graphics (Intel) is the best way to get Linux compatibility,
actually. Although they have not provide specs like AMD, the level
of support they put into the GPL drivers (there are no closed drivers!)
is greater than AMD. And they have been driving much other Linux
graphics work as well. Keith Packard himself even works there.


Cheers,
Kelly Clowers


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Re: New computer planned

On Mon, 2012-02-20 at 16:58 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 Especially today most distros dropped the nv driver,
 but the proprietary can't be used all the times. The nouveau driver for
 most distros, including Debian ex testing, is the only alternative to
 the proprietary one.

This driver is marked as experimental and doesn't work for many
people.


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Re: New computer planned

2012-02-20 Thread Kelly Clowers

On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 07:58, Rob Owens row...@ptd.net wrote:
 On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 02:19:36PM +, Sian Mountbatten wrote:
 My desktop computer is nearly 7 years old and I'm thinking that a
 new computer using some of the hardware improvements would be a good
 thing.

 If you plan to use wireless networking, make sure you check reviews on
 newegg, amazon, etc. for the particular wireless card you plan to buy --
 make sure it is Linux-compatible.

Well, verifying the chipset should be fine. Although I hate WiFi and avoid it
regardless of OS, if I can...

Cheers,
Kelly Clowers


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Re: New computer planned

On Mon, 2012-02-20 at 16:58 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 On Mon, 2012-02-20 at 16:58 +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
  If you definitely don't want to use proprietary drivers you can also 
  consider Intel cards (or even built-in)

Do they have 3D support?

 You can
 drop ATA, all you need is SATA, IOW buy new HDDs if needed.

The SATA connectors are bad, get some with clips. I've got SATA without
clips and from time to time I need to reconnect the connectors. A friend
experiences the same.


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Re: New computer planned

2012-02-20 Thread Rob Owens

On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 04:58:56PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 I always use two HDDs, to make backups from one to the other, but just
 two, to get less noise and power consumption.
 The casing is the week point of my machine.
 
Good point about the case.  I've seen so many cases that only have spots
for 1 or 2 hard drives.  I'd get a case that can hold 6 or so 3.5 hard
drives, just in case you decide to repurpose this machine later in life.
It's also nice to be able to install your 2 hard drives with some space
in between them (for better cooling).

-Rob


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Re: New computer planned

2012-02-20 Thread green

Andrei POPESCU wrote at 2012-02-20 08:58 -0600:
 OTOH I doubt tuxracer has very high 3d performance requirements.

Extreme TuxRacer works fine on my Intel GM965, fullscreen.


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Re: New computer planned

On Mon, 2012-02-20 at 10:15 -0500, Curt Howland wrote:
 The card has
 it's own RAM, so system RAM is not shared, which is a very good thing

It's a myth that shared RAM for the framebuffer is less good than a
graphics with it's own RAM. What exactly should be better if the
graphics has got it's own RAM?


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Re: New computer planned

On Mon, 2012-02-20 at 10:17 -0500, Allan Wind wrote:
 Memory is cheap.  More is better as Linux uses it for disk cache 
 if nothing else.

For heavy audio production I never noticed that even the swap gets
touched with 4GB RAM.


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Re: New computer planned

On Lu, 20 feb 12, 17:09:45, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 On Mon, 2012-02-20 at 16:58 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
  On Mon, 2012-02-20 at 16:58 +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
   If you definitely don't want to use proprietary drivers you can also 
   consider Intel cards (or even built-in)
 
 Do they have 3D support?

Yes, but not as good as nVidia/ATI.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: New computer planned

2012-02-20 Thread Kelly Clowers

On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 08:31, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:
On Mon, 2012-02-20 at 10:15 -0500, Curt Howland wrote:
The card has
it's own RAM, so system RAM is not shared, which is a very good thing

It's a myth that shared RAM for the framebuffer is less good than a
graphics with it's own RAM. What exactly should be better if the
graphics has got it's own RAM?

There is more RAM available. If you have 4GB, and shared memory,
and a game needs 512MB just for textures, then you have that much
less for the system. Also, current GDDR speeds are much higher
than current DDR speeds. Memory bandwidth is king for intensive
modern games.

Now, for low performance stuff, it isn't going to matter much.
Intel IGPs' pure processing power is low enough that the
boost they would get from dedicated memory would be fairly
small. Not to mention the GDDR would add cost and heat. So
Intel doesn't make them like that. Or as discrete cards at all.

For heavy audio production I never noticed that even the swap gets
touched with 4GB RAM.

Depend on what else you might be running, including what
desktop environment or window manager. Not to mention than
if he may keep this for another 7 years, he may as well get 8GB
(or more). In 4 or 5 years, RAM should as usual, be much
cheaper for the same amount and be faster too. But it doesn't
mean the RAM he can use in the old motherboard will be cheaper
Have you seen the price of DDR 1 or even 2 compared to 3 lately?

I run a light WM instead of KDE or Gnome, but I still noticed
a difference going from 4 to 8, as I run an inordinate number
of tabs in my browser. It really depends on the details of your
usage. He doesn't say what kind of Software Dev he does,
maybe he will want to run a dev database or two to test
against or something.

This driver is marked as experimental and doesn't work
for many people.

Well, it is hard to reverse-engineer that kind of thing.
If you get one of the models they been focusing on
for a while, it ought to work fairly well.

But in general, get a well-supported ATI card for
performance, or Intel otherwise. I guess the highest
performance on Linux come from the closed nvidia
driver, but I don't understand people that use Linux
but then support a company like nvidia. Even if you
use Catalyst (which I don't much like either), at least
it supports a reasonable company.

Cheers,
Kelly Clowers

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Re: New computer planned

On Lu, 20 feb 12, 10:15:13, Curt Howland wrote:
 
 I also kept my old keyboard, since the motherboards all still have PS2
 sockets for keyboards. 

I have been looking only at mini-ITX motherboards lately and I seem to 
recall models without PS/2, but you are probably right about full-sized 
ATX boards.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: New computer planned

2012-02-20 Thread Doug


On 2/20/2012 9:19 AM, Sian Mountbatten wrote:
My desktop computer is nearly 7 years old and I'm thinking that a new 
computer using some of the hardware improvements would be a good thing.


So I'm going to ask my friendly computer consultant, who is only 
downstairs from me, to build me a computer with hardware 3d 
acceleration, solid-state drive, 8Gb RAM. What else should I ask for 
and what works with Linux? He's going to give me a list of the 
hardware he is going to install, so I can check Linux compatibility. 
Although I am not a gamer, I would like to run tuxracer which really 
needs 3d acceleration to work. Any suggestions will be welcome.


Keyboard: for many years now, I have used a keyboard which is not 
membrane-based. It has individual key switches, is properly dished and 
is a joy to use. No keyboard click, but I don't use that anyway. The 
keyboard is connected to the PS/2 socket. Would a wireless keyboard do 
as good a job? I suppose it would probably be USB, but I shall listen 
to advice on that. The keyboard is an essential peripheral and I am 
willing to spend money on a good keyboard. Maybe I should keep the 
keyboard I am using. It's not overly clean, but I can live with it.


I'm not in my twenties anymore and I have no agression to work off 
with snazzy games (which probably only work on Windoze anyway). 
Software development and software development support are my forte. 
Some of the simple games available on Linux provide sufficient 
entertainment for me, but I think that a new computer is one new year 
gift I could do with.


I shall be interested to hear what people suggest.

Regards
--
Sian Mountbatten
Algol 68 specialist



A couple of suggestions:

If you like your old keyboard, clean it up and use it.  If you really 
want a nice keyboard, you want an IBM model M
or its clone.  Not cheap, unless you find one surplus someplace,  Go to 
ClickyKeyboards.com (http://www.clickykeyboards.com/). They sell
refurbed model Ms and a clone.  The model M has no Microsoft keys.  I'm 
using three (on three computers) all of which are probably at
least 20 years old, bought at computer flea-markets, back when there 
were such things.  They'll probably be working fine long after I'm dead,

if some nincompoop doesn't throw them out for not having MS keys.

You mention wireless keyboard: you'd have to have a receiver on the 
computer itself.  If that's not built in, then yes, it would probably
be USB.  Modern machines have lots of USB ports, and they work very 
well. Of course, the k/b would have a battery in it, that would 
eventually die,

so you'd want to have a spare available.

You need a real mechanical hard drive.  The solid-state drives have a  
limited read/write cycle.  It's kind of a fad right now, since real
drives are in short supply and expensive, due to foods in Thailand, 
where some critical part comes from.  Some day the solid-state
drive will be perfected, but it's not yet.  If you want real security of 
data, get two hard drives and make a raid array. For real quick
response, however, the solid-state drive can't be beat, so you might 
want one just for your development work--then transfer the

final product to the revolving kind.

Just my 2¢--doug


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Re: New computer planned

2012-02-20 Thread David Christensen


On 02/20/2012 06:58 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

If you definitely don't want to use proprietary drivers you can also
consider Intel cards (or even built-in),


I prefer full FOSS HW support OOTB and have had the best experiences 
with Intel processors and integrated motherboards (video, sound, 
PATA/SATA, LAN, serial, parallel, PS/2, USB, etc.).



Does Squeeze have full FOSS HW support OOTB for the Intel 
Second-Generation Core processors and Q67 chipset motherboards?  Does 
Wheezy?  Sid?  As other posters have mentioned, checking HCL's is 
difficult at best.



I'm considering building a Debian Gnome 64-bit desktop and a Debian Xen 
or XCP 64-bit server using i5-2500S processors and DQ67SW motherboards:



http://ark.intel.com/products/52211/Intel-Core-i5-2500S-Processor-%286M-Cache-2_70-GHz%29

http://ark.intel.com/products/51997/Intel-Desktop-Board-DQ67SW

Any comments from people running Debian, Gnome, Xen, or XCP on these parts?


TIA,

David


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Re: New computer planned